1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: So Australia says they're going to recognize Palestine in September. 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: We're weighing up our position and there will be a 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: month where we talk about this amongst the cabinet. This 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: comes after Australia back to two state solution at the UN, 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: joining the UK, France and Canada. We've always back to 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: two state solution, but there's a difference when you actually 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: declared that Palestine a Palestine state, you recognize the Palestine state. 8 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: So to talk about the nuance of all of this 9 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: is John Battersby, who is a massive university He's at 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: the Massive University Center for Defense and Security Studies. 11 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, John, Good morning. 12 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: So what is this? Is this virtue signaling? Is this 13 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: just a symbolic gesture or does it have a real power. 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 2: I think it is largely a symbolic gesture, and it's 15 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: brought on, obviously by what your previous speaker was talking about, 16 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 2: the herrendous consequences that are being felt in Gaza as 17 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: a result of the Israeli response to the October twenty 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: twenty three event. And I think the the vast feeling 19 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: of public opinion in several countries is something needs to 20 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: be done to try and pull the Israeli action back. 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: There's internal dissent in Israel itself over the effect of it, 22 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 2: so any move really in this direction may be able 23 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: to temper there. So I think while it is somewhat 24 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: symbolic in terms of recognizing a state that probablys in there, 25 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: there is there is an effect that may have. 26 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, it's pressure on as well as pressure on us. 27 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: I mean, how big is this move from Australia to 28 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: do this, to declare this now, and will our government 29 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,839 Speaker 1: now be feeling the pressure to join the herd? 30 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: I think there'll be a general Yeah, there'll be a 31 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: general pressure up here, pressure of other states. A number 32 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: of other states already recognized under forty seven. I think 33 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: you have already done so, so there will be We'll 34 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: probably have to justify why we don't. I think would 35 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: be the would be the case. Well, the problem is, though, 36 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: I think that it's probably recognizing it for the wrong reason. 37 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: It's recognizing it as a counter to Israeli action, rather 38 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: than recognizing the integral of a Palestinian state itself. 39 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: A state which is divine with territory and people and 40 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: governance and law and authority because it's not just oh 41 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: it's a state. There's a whole lot before you can 42 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: become a state, isn't it. 43 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: Well, that's right. And it's divided between the West Bank 44 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: and Gaza or the big chunklet is rather than between 45 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: and Gaza is heavily contested between Hammas in Israel, and 46 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 2: Hammas is an autocratic organization. There's no friend of democracy. 47 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: A number of Arab states don't support it. So yeah, 48 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: there's some big questions around this. 49 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Is there any downside? 50 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 2: Is there a downside to recognizing it? Ye? Possibly in 51 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: the future, but governments tend to act in the moment, 52 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: and that the key crisis at the moment is the 53 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: perceived overreaction of Israel and the detrimental effects it's having 54 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: on the people of Gaza, and that's probably the most 55 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: urgent thing that needs to be done. So yeah, there 56 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: probably is the downside, that it's probably down the road. 57 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: John Badisbey, I thank you so much from the Massive 58 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: University Center for Defense and Security Studies. 59 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: For more from Early edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live 60 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 2: to News Talk Set B from five am weekdays, or 61 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.