1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Kyoda. 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 2: Welcome to Shared Lunch, brought to you by Chase's. My 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 2: name is Halen Madison. We're looking at two things today. 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 2: The first is the new Chasy's US five hundred key 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: we Save fund, and given that, what is the state 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 2: of the US markets. I'll be joined by Christa Leiba, 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 2: the head of Global and multi asset Investments at Harbor 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: Asset Management, and by our very own Chaza's head of 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: super and Funds, Matt McPherson. But before we get started, 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: here's some important information. 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 3: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 12 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 13 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 3: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 3: Everything you're about to see and here is current at 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 3: the time of record. 16 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: Welcome Chris and welcome Matt to the program. 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 4: Thanks Hellen. 18 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: Chair Za's has just launched its own US five hundred fund, 19 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: which is managed by Vanguard and tracks the famous S 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: and P five hundred. Matt, that's been pretty popular. What 21 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: is it about this fund that that is so popular? 22 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 5: Yeah, really popular with our investors. The single most popular 23 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 5: option on Chersey's and I guess there's a few reasons that. 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 5: The first is it's a great way of getting exposure 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 5: to those large US companies without having to go through 26 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 5: and pickstocks yourself. So it comes with diversification because it's 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 5: over five hundred companies in the index. I guess. The 28 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 5: other point is that ETFs tend to be much lower 29 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 5: cost than say a managed fund, So there's sort of 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 5: combination of reasons that they are really really popular. 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: Chris, the US markets have been up and down, as 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: we know, Tariffs are on, they're off, they're paused all 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: over the show, and there's been a concern about the 34 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: US economy investing in US stocks. Now, what would you 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: say investors need to think about? 36 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 4: So far this year, it has been all about tariffs, 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 4: but there are actually some other things that might be 38 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 4: slipping under the radar a little bit for investors because 39 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 4: the talk has been so dominated by tariffs. And something 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 4: I draw out is that we're in the midst of 41 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 4: the US earning season. Currently, we've had ninety percent of 42 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 4: companies report, We've had seventy seven percent of those companies 43 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 4: beat consensus earnings expectations, So a lot of your viewers 44 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 4: will be thinking that well from the early part of April. 45 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 4: Actually markets have bounced back quite substantially. One of the 46 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 4: key reasons for that has been the earning season, but 47 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 4: it's it's also been the outlook statements from the companies 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 4: that we've seen. Outlook statements have actually been relatively strong, 49 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 4: a lot of resilience shown in the face of what 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 4: is quite an uncertain tariff environment. Coming in to the year, 51 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 4: the US market was expected to grow quite substantially. We 52 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 4: had the average price target the S and P five 53 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 4: hundred b substantially in the double digits from most south 54 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,399 Speaker 4: side brokers. Obviously, what we've seen so far has been 55 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 4: a little bit disappointing, and part of that is a 56 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 4: reflection of where the economic data is lay. So so 57 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 4: far this year, the US has slowed down. In the 58 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 4: first quarter, it looked to be slowing down quite markedly. 59 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 4: So we have some real time measures of US GDP 60 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 4: like the GDP now measure, and that came down quite substantially. Subsequently, 61 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 4: though it's bounced back, So what we're seeing in the 62 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 4: US is a slow down, but actually from a relatively 63 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 4: high level. Now with tariffs, who knows is the real 64 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 4: comment there? We will see ebbs and flows, but what 65 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 4: I can point out over the last month is that 66 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 4: we've gone from a point we're thinking that this is 67 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 4: going to be absolutely disastrous and we're going to have 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 4: extremely high tariffs to the direction of travel being one 69 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 4: that's quite incrementally positive. But it is President Trump, and 70 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 4: we know that it can be unpredictable and that can 71 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 4: unsettle markets a bit. But I just don't think it's 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 4: all about tariffs. Take into account that the US economy 73 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 4: is slowing but not too bad, and earnings remain to 74 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 4: be resilient, and for long term investors, share prices tend 75 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 4: to follow earnings through time. 76 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: Matt. 77 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: When we look at the US five hundred fund that 78 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: Cheesy's has launched, this is a key we saber fund. 79 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: This is not just a fun that you can jump 80 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: into on your Cheesys app if you like. That's a 81 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: bit different pretty much to what has been out there. Now. 82 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: Can you tell us how significant that changes. 83 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 5: There are a few other key saber funds that allow 84 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 5: you to invest into the SMP five hundred already. I 85 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,799 Speaker 5: guess what differentiates it from some of the other funds 86 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 5: that we offer, though, is that it's one hundred percent 87 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 5: invested into equities, so it comes it's classified as an 88 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 5: aggressive option, it comes with a higher risk indicator, which 89 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 5: means higher volatility people need to be comfortable with, and 90 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 5: it comes with the potential of higher returns over the 91 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,799 Speaker 5: long term. Now, before we launched this fund, we actually 92 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 5: prioritize to feature that enables people to split their key 93 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 5: saver across multiple base funds. And the reason we did 94 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 5: that is because people said they wanted to invest more 95 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 5: than five percent of their kivsaver into the S and 96 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 5: P five hundred. 97 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: And that five percent is that because that's what the scheme. 98 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 5: Has been a self select option since we launched our 99 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 5: scheme a couple of years ago. They won more than 100 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 5: five but they don't necessarily want to invest one hundred 101 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 5: percent of their kipsaver into a fund that only invests 102 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 5: in US equities. And that's how we're seeing it used 103 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 5: so far. People are generally adding some US five hundred 104 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 5: to their investment plan rather than replacing their managed fund 105 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 5: provider completely. 106 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: So is that how it works. 107 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: You actually need to be able to just you could 108 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: go one hundred percent. You obviously can go more than 109 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: five percent, which you can now with self select, but 110 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 2: you can't actually with self select invest in the US 111 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 2: can you? 112 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 5: Yet you can via some of the inside x ETFs 113 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 5: that we offer. 114 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: Chris, what do you think the risks are for investors 115 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: thinking about the US markets? You've said that things look 116 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 2: pretty positive yues has been a bit of a slow down. 117 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: Some of those companies are really well established, you know, 118 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: big balance sheets, all of that sort of thing, compared 119 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: to what's happening in Australasia. Anyway, there's still always risk 120 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: and there's volatility. So I suppose it depends on someone's appetite. 121 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: What would you say? 122 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 4: Yeah? So one of the rests I draw out is 123 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 4: when you're investing in the US market, you're inheriting US 124 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 4: dollar exposure as well. So the US share market may 125 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 4: go really really well, but investors have to be prepared 126 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 4: for the potential outcome that currency, particularly over the shorter term, 127 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 4: might move things around a bit. So you could have 128 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,239 Speaker 4: a scenario we are investing in the US market, US 129 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 4: market's done ten percent, you might be thinking your key 130 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 4: we save has done quite well. However, it could be 131 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 4: during a period where the US dollar is weakened and 132 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 4: if the US dollars a weekends by ten percent by 133 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 4: the time that is in New Zealand dollars, that that 134 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 4: would be a flat sort of return. Look, that's not 135 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 4: my base case by any means, but it's simply saying 136 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 4: that there are two key levers in this investments, how 137 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 4: the shares do, but also the currency on the US 138 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 4: market overall. It's the world's biggest market for a reason. 139 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 4: There's the key global share indices that people use tend 140 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 4: to have a sixty to sixty five percent allocation to 141 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 4: the US. So I wouldn't look at its risk profile 142 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 4: as being that different than say a global share fund. 143 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 4: There are some geographical considerations you need to take into account. Obviously, 144 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 4: the US market will have sensitivities more to US policy. 145 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 4: There can also be events that hit the US harder 146 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 4: than other economies around the world. So those are just 147 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 4: a few things to take into account when looking at 148 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 4: a fund of that nature. 149 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: Even so, Matt, given what has been happening in the 150 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: US and the level of volatility, there would be some 151 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: viewers and listeners probably thinking is my key we say 152 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: was safe if I start investing even a proportion of 153 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: it in the US. 154 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 5: Of For sure, I think one thing that gives me 155 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 5: a bit of confidence is there. There's a lot of 156 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 5: uncertainty and change at the moment. We all appreciate that. 157 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 5: I think if you go back in time, we would 158 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 5: often say that same thing. At the moment, things feel 159 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 5: very uncertain. And what we find is over time, those big, 160 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 5: well run, successful American companies there's a lot of energy 161 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 5: that comes from that and a lot of focus on 162 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 5: solving problems. So one of the reasons these companies have 163 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 5: become successful is because they are really good at solving 164 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 5: hard problems. And so I guess I take a little 165 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 5: bit of confidence that we've got some focus and some 166 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 5: very big brains working on how to solve whatever the 167 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 5: problem of the day is. And at the moment, it 168 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 5: feels like the problem of the day is maybe some 169 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 5: of the policies that's coming out of the States. But 170 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 5: go back a couple of years ago, we also had 171 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 5: at the time probably what felt like equally or even 172 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 5: larger issues with things like the pandemic. And this is 173 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 5: repeated over time. 174 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 4: Matt. It's quite interesting. I was talking to a US 175 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 4: invest or the other and we're talking about this very thing, 176 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 4: and he said to me, just imagine that you were 177 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 4: sitting there in twenty nineteen and someone came up to 178 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 4: you and said, over the next five years, you're going 179 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 4: to have a global pandemic, so you're all going to 180 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 4: be locked down for months on end. Then once we 181 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 4: get out of it, you're going to have the worst 182 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 4: inflation that you've had in recorded history. Then we're going 183 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 4: to increase interest rates by the most that we ever 184 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 4: have in history, and the response to that will be 185 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 4: a second bear market? And what sort of return would 186 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 4: you expect over that time? And you kind of go, well, 187 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 4: that's a lot to put into five years, And the 188 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 4: answer is returns have actually been above average over that time. So, 189 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 4: I mean the lesson in that for me is that 190 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 4: sometimes when you look at the headlines, you can go, look, 191 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 4: this is really scary, But the reality is, is it 192 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 4: more or less scared than a pandemic, two or three 193 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 4: bear markets depending on the time, and the highest inflation 194 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 4: and interest rates ever, that probably seems a little bit 195 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 4: light or even on par relative to those particular events. 196 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess that's why understanding your investment horizon is 197 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 5: probably the most important thing you can do before you're 198 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 5: making any decisions, because in any one of those situations. 199 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 5: If you were thinking short term, you probably would have 200 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 5: been really upset, and if you're thinking long term, you 201 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 5: probably would be you know, you're feeling confident that you've 202 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 5: made the right decisions. 203 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: There are some fund managers in Europe and the Light though, 204 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: who have been pulling back a bit, not pulling out 205 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 2: of the US markets. They're still in there, but they 206 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: have been just gradually pulling back because they've been feeling 207 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: a bit skittish about the Trump administration and they are 208 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: actually thinking that structurally their allocation will be somewhat different. 209 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: And this may be a longer term thing because it 210 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: will happen gradually over time. 211 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: Chris, just keen for your on that. 212 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, so starting point matters in this discussion because coming 213 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 4: into twenty twenty five, foreign ownership of US shares was 214 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 4: at all time highs. And if we think about the 215 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 4: narrative coming into twenty twenty five, it's that the US 216 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 4: has got the best companies at the forefront of AI 217 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 4: economy is chugging away really, really well. And it's actually 218 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 4: the reversal of some of those themes as opposed to 219 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 4: Donald Trump himself that's actually driving and it's not in 220 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 4: the figures I've seen is that they're certainly not leaving 221 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 4: in their droves. I would more classify it as being 222 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 4: they've gone from an overweight position and a very optimistic 223 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 4: view of the market to probably nearer to longer term benchmarks. So, 224 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 4: as I said, it's not all Trump. Deep seek was 225 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 4: a really big factor in this. So we had coming 226 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 4: into the year this deep consensus that the U US 227 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 4: is just going to completely own AI. China won't get 228 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 4: a look in because the US cut off the fastest 229 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 4: chips are to China. Now they're able to innovate. I 230 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 4: don't know how, it doesn't really matter how. The fact 231 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 4: is they're there. They're a player. It's not just Deep Secrets. 232 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 4: It's Baidu, it's ten Cent, it's Ali Barber. So that 233 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 4: has been one of the reasons why we've seen some 234 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 4: investor interest go away from the US. The other is 235 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 4: what's happening in Europe at the moment. Now we're actually 236 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 4: starting to see some fiscal impulse in Europe, so we've 237 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 4: had some budget relaxation rules within the EU. It means 238 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 4: that Germany has past a spending package that is going 239 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 4: to pump a lot of stimulus into their economy. We're 240 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 4: starting to see at the margin a little bit more 241 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 4: stimulatory policy from France and Italy as well. So this 242 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 4: is from economies that have been in austerity for the 243 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 4: past fifteen years. So that has been a fundamental change 244 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 4: which has led people to reduce their overweight positions from 245 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 4: the US. I think we've just gone from a point 246 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 4: where investors thought that the US was probably just their 247 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 4: only choice or their best choice, to one where people 248 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 4: are looking at Europe saying, look, valuations are a bit 249 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 4: more reasonable over there, and actually things perhaps weren't as 250 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 4: bad as we thought overall. 251 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 2: Are we seeing those fund managers in Europe particularly okay, 252 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: they might be investing in their own or they might 253 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: be investing in, say, Asian markets. 254 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: What do you think of that? 255 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 4: I think where the tide has rarely turned, as in 256 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,239 Speaker 4: China and Hong Kong stocks. You'll remember the narrative around 257 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 4: just the past couple of years actually, of many people 258 00:14:54,720 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 4: questioning whether these stocks are investable or not. The latest 259 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 4: starter we're seeing is that investors are starting to go 260 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 4: back over there. Why well, we're starting to see a 261 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 4: little bit of stimulus come out of China. They know 262 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 4: that Trump's tariffs are going to be a big challenge 263 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 4: on their economy, so they're meaningfully pumping the accelerator when 264 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 4: it comes to stimulus in their economy. And actually the 265 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 4: other thing too is the stocks there are cheap. Now, 266 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 4: if we are to draw one criticism of the US market, 267 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 4: it is that the valuations in the market are relatively high. 268 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 4: So investors might look at some of the companies in 269 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 4: Asia and go, well, actually, relative valuation wise, although there's risks, 270 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 4: I'm happy to step in. 271 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: Now. 272 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 2: If we get back to the US five hundred fund 273 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: that she has launched. You said it was the most 274 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: popular feature that we've been asked for for key we Saver, 275 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: But are people putting me their money where their mouths? 276 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: Are they actually investing and deciding that will use this 277 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: for Keysaber. 278 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, we launched about a week ago. We've seen quite 279 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 5: a good response on people switching to our scheme. We've 280 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 5: also seen a lot of our members add the US 281 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 5: five hundred fund to their investment plans or rebalance their 282 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 5: portfolios to include more of it. And the third group 283 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 5: we've seen is around ten percent of the people who 284 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 5: have signed up in that last week haven't been in 285 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 5: key SABER before. And that's really interesting because I think 286 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 5: through a combination of great experience and access to a 287 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 5: wide range of product, we're managing to engage people who 288 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 5: for whatever reason, have not been part of KISABER in 289 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 5: the past. And what we see is that a lot 290 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 5: of these people are self employed. 291 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: Of course, just thinking about other SCA classes, we've focused 292 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: on shares predominantly in this conversation, What about bonds? 293 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: What about gold that's having another resurgence. 294 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 2: Are you seeing with global investors and investors here at 295 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 2: home even thinking about other asset classes beyond equities? 296 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, so bond yeards been attractive for some time. We 297 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 4: saw as the market was really worried about tariffs, we 298 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 4: saw bond yields fall quite substantially, so they got down 299 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 4: to around three point eight percent for the US ten 300 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 4: year yield, So that provided a bit of a cushion 301 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 4: as shares were falling quite substantially over that time. Since then, 302 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 4: we've actually seen a bounce back up, and part of 303 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 4: that is just around the worry that the market has 304 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 4: around the amount of debt that the US might need 305 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 4: to raise and the more supply of bonds. Obviously that 306 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 4: puts pressure on bond yields, So the returns there have 307 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 4: been okay. I still think on a go forward basis 308 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 4: they look relatively attractive. Gold has been an interesting one, 309 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 4: and I suspect part of the resurgence that we've seen 310 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 4: in gold is there has been an uptick in the 311 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 4: US and inflation expectations. So there's a University of Michigan 312 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 4: measure where they go out and survey people and go, 313 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 4: you know, what do you think inflation will be over 314 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 4: particular timeframes. Now that measure for the five to ten 315 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 4: year inflation is at the highest level since the mid nineties, 316 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 4: So inflation expectations out there are quite high. So people 317 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 4: are looking at what are the inflation hedges that I 318 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 4: convest in, and gold through time has proven to be 319 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 4: quite a solid inflation hedge for people. I think the 320 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 4: other aspect, too, is there is some talk around about 321 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 4: the US continuing to be the world's global reserve currency. 322 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 4: I think that's been over egged a little bit. I 323 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 4: think the US has a very solid position as continuing 324 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 4: to be the world's reserve currency. But at these times 325 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 4: where you talk about tariffs, you can sometimes get these 326 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 4: narratives taking on a life of their own. So I 327 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: think that has led people to say, okay, well, let's 328 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 4: diversify our holdings a bit. We'll have some holdings in 329 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 4: US dollars, holdings in euro, holdings in Japanese yen, which 330 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 4: is a popular safe haven currency, but let's also have 331 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 4: an allocation to gold as well. And that really skyrip, 332 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 4: isn't it? 333 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: Just thinking about more modern asset classes. 334 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: If you like crypto, do you see a time when 335 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: people be able to put their key we save it 336 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: into crypto in the same way that we're offering the 337 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 2: share options. 338 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean right at the moment, we're looking at 339 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 5: us self select, which is the next chapter after the 340 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 5: US five hundred fund for us with our product, and 341 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 5: you know, we're trying to work out what to include. 342 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 5: We start with a principle that we want to provide 343 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 5: as much access as we can and let our members 344 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 5: decide on where to put their own money. And so 345 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 5: the crypto ETFs that have launched, they are widely held, 346 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 5: there is a lot of liquidity. Some of them have 347 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 5: actually considerably lower volatility than some of the big name companies, 348 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 5: say at the top of the S and P five 349 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 5: hundred list. So I think it's a really good argument 350 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 5: to say, maybe via an ETF, that crypto should be 351 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 5: something that people can allocate. Again, with our guardrails kind 352 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 5: of process built into our product, that may be up 353 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 5: to five percent of your portfolio with exposure to crypto 354 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 5: is something that someone can make a choice about rather 355 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 5: than us making that choice. 356 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 4: For Matt, what's interesting with cryptocurrency is the trends that 357 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 4: we're seeing come out of the US with regards to this. 358 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 4: So you mention ETFs, well, what that has enabled is 359 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 4: for people to have a really safe way to get 360 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 4: exposure to cryptocurrency. That's actually helped enable better institutional participation 361 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 4: in the cryptocurrency market. So it's interesting in the US, 362 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 4: You've got the likes of Yale Harvard who have said 363 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 4: that they have exposure to cryptocurrencies. You're also starting to 364 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 4: see kind of state pension funds and even some sovereign 365 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 4: wealth funds participate. To be honest, i'm surprised, you know, 366 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 4: back in many years ago, I kind of looked at 367 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 4: it and didn't quite get it. But it really has 368 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 4: come a long way in terms of just who can participate, accessibility, 369 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 4: but also institutional support for the sector as well. 370 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 2: Matt, So how long before we might see self select 371 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: stocks individual stocks in the US being available for people 372 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 2: in their key we say a scheme. 373 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 5: Well, the good thing is, in order to launch the 374 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 5: US five hundred fund, a lot of the hard work, 375 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 5: I suppose the infrastructure is in place for us. So 376 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 5: that is our next priority that we've started actively working 377 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 5: on now, as you self select won't put absolute time 378 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 5: on it because it's really important that we go through 379 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 5: our testing and validation steps and get this right before 380 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 5: we release it. Current best estimate is I think middle 381 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 5: of the year. 382 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 2: What about things like private equity, because it's pretty popular infrastructure, 383 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: that kind of thing. 384 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, private equity has been really topical in twenty twenty five, 385 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 5: and for good reason. If we look at Ossie, which 386 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 5: we always do because they had a fifteen year head 387 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 5: start on us with superannuation, their super funds have a 388 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 5: much higher exposure to private assets. They're super funds are 389 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 5: investing in anything from large infrastructure projects to small startup companies. 390 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 5: We tend to be a little bit less adventurous in 391 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 5: New Zealand at this stage, but there's a lot of 392 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 5: talk about it, and I think there's actually a lot 393 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 5: of will we need to overcome some of the challenges 394 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 5: with regard to valuations and liquidity because that's tough for 395 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 5: private companies. But yeah, I'm confident. I think as kwisaver 396 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 5: continues to mature, that'll happen. We're at that kind of 397 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 5: tipping point at the moment where these things start becoming 398 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 5: really viable for super funds. 399 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: We've got the budget coming up. There is if you like, 400 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 2: rumors that the government might cut its contribution, which is 401 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: five hundred plus dollars a year. Chris, do you think 402 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: that's going to have any effect at all. 403 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 4: I'm not sure it will on Kiwi saber participation because 404 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 4: key We Saber fulfills a few key functions. 405 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 3: You know. 406 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 4: One, it's really well regulated and people get accessed to 407 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 4: a wide range of investments, right, some lower cost and 408 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 4: more passive and some high cost and more active. So 409 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 4: I think it's working really well in Most people I 410 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 4: talk to are really positive about key We Saver. Second, 411 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 4: obviously you still get your employer contribution, which as meaningful 412 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 4: might not be quite as high as Australia, but it's 413 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 4: still meaningful for people. So I think overall it would 414 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 4: be a shame. Don't get me wrong to see changes, 415 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 4: because I think what makes schemes popular is actually when 416 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 4: they're largely left alone by politicians so people can invest 417 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 4: with confidence. 418 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 5: Might take almost sorry, Chris, I must take the opposite here. 419 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 5: I think we're overdue for a policy review KEYSAB. We're 420 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 5: only a tiny little scheme, but I think we've tried 421 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 5: to be as vocal as we can. I'll come back 422 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 5: to agreeing with Chris now. With the government contribution is 423 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 5: that it's not targeted anyway, and what I'd like to 424 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 5: see actually is targeted and targeted at the people that 425 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 5: are being left behind. And I mentioned self employed before, 426 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 5: and you mentioned the kickstart and children. The fact that 427 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 5: the government contribution is not available to anyone under eighteen 428 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 5: seems contrary to good sense, which would be to get 429 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 5: people involved in QPSAB as early as possible and incentivize that, 430 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 5: and incentivize people who are self employed because they are 431 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 5: not receiving having if they receive an employer contributions coming 432 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 5: out of their own pocket twice and so you know, 433 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 5: there's I think let's have a look at the policy settings. 434 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 5: But I do take your point that the more that 435 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 5: you that you kind of mess around with it, So 436 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 5: any changes need to be really well signaled. 437 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,239 Speaker 4: Oh look, and I'm more thinking about messing with it 438 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 4: in a negative way, and if want to mess with 439 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 4: it in a positive way around higher contributions. 440 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: We've actually looked at that ourselves, haven't We met. 441 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 5: What we heard when we got involved in kvsaver is 442 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 5: industry saying that contributions need arise, and we heard the 443 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 5: Retirement Commission say largely the same thing. But the voice 444 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 5: that was kind of missing from that was the people 445 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 5: who were going to have to make the higher contributions, 446 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 5: and that's you and me, that's the members. So we 447 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 5: went out and asked a bunch of our investors, not 448 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 5: our necessarily our KIV saver members, but just people on 449 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 5: the Cheesies platform. It was overwhelming how many people said, 450 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 5: I get it. I'd prefer to have a little bit 451 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 5: less in my take home this week in order to 452 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 5: have more retirement. It was seventy eight percent who supported 453 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 5: that idea, which is phenomenal because it's counter to everything 454 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 5: that we assumed people would think, Like at the height 455 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 5: almost of the cost of living crisis. 456 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 2: Chaps, we probably need to wrap it up there, just 457 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: wondering what would you like to see with key We 458 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,719 Speaker 2: savor on terms of innovation in the near turn, not 459 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 2: so much the long term the near term. 460 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 4: So I think the private asset discussions really interesting. It's 461 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 4: one where I think we need a little bit of 462 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 4: a mindset shift around fees. For example, is one of 463 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 4: them right? You know, these are more expensive assets to 464 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 4: get your hands on, but they can come with a 465 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 4: higher reward as well. I think the other part of that, too, 466 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 4: is that there is a global trend of companies staying 467 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 4: private for longer, and we see companies realizing more of 468 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 4: their value in the private markets in many cases than 469 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 4: they do in the public markets. I also saw a 470 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 4: stat the other day, and I won't get the percentage 471 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 4: completely right, but the amount of companies valued over one 472 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 4: hundred million dollars in the uses that are private versus 473 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 4: public is something like three or four to one. So 474 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 4: when we look at our investments, why do we have 475 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 4: all of it in the area that has less exposure. 476 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 4: We've got companies out of New Zealand like Crimson Education, 477 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 4: Black Halter. We've got companies that are really starting to 478 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 4: be relevant on the global stage. We've seen a few 479 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 4: of them even acquired this year, so that's global investors 480 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 4: going I want to slice of that company. So I'd 481 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 4: love to see that development further, and hopefully as an industry, 482 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 4: we can get together, navigate the challenges, and just make 483 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 4: it happen. 484 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 5: I guess as an innovator, we're asked all the time 485 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 5: who we're competing against, who do we see as our 486 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 5: biggest threat, And the answer is consistently just apathy. It's 487 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 5: just that whole thing that people don't think about their kipisaver. 488 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 5: They'll put more time into thinking about what they're can 489 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 5: have for tonight, then they will about where their retirement 490 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 5: is invested, and no matter who it's invested, I just 491 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 5: want people to just to try and give that a 492 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 5: little bit more time. I guess the innovation is important 493 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 5: because it comes along from time to time and maybe 494 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 5: it helps people to consider. So I don't not really, 495 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 5: I don't have a strong place on where the innovation 496 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 5: comes from. I just want to see it continue so 497 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 5: that people will continue to engage a little bit more 498 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 5: with their retirement savings. 499 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: Yep, I think everyone would like to see that. 500 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,239 Speaker 2: Thanks both of you for being with us today and 501 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: thanks to you for joining us You can watch shed 502 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: Lunch on YouTube or listen on your favorite podcast app. 503 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 2: Leave us a rating and tell us what you'd like 504 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 2: to hear next. Ma Tawa