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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of theists, now the Leighton

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Speaker 1: Smith podcast Coward by news talks it B.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to podcasts two hundred and fifty eight for October second,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. The Gray Lady Winked by Ashley Rinsburg

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Speaker 2: is a critique of the New York Times. The Times

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Speaker 2: did not farewell under his inspection, and quite rightly. We

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Speaker 2: talked with Rinsburg in podcast one five to one April

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two. He was in Israel at the

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Speaker 2: time we talked the book as missiles fell nearby. Two

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Speaker 2: days ago Monday, September thirty, we interviewed again on the

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Speaker 2: current crisis in the Middle East, and I have no

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Speaker 2: doubt that it's worthy of your attention. His feel for

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Speaker 2: the moment is pronounced, and following the mail room, some

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Speaker 2: referrals that you will or may find worthy of your attention,

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Speaker 2: and an article from Jeffrey Tucker that I decided to include,

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Speaker 2: and I'll explain why now. While we discussed the situation

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Speaker 2: in Lebanon to some degree, it hadn't advanced as far

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Speaker 2: as it now has and undoubtedly will. But there was

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Speaker 2: a short discussion with Ashley Rinsburg with regard to the

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Speaker 2: state that Lebanon was in before this event developed. We

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Speaker 2: spoke two days ago on Monday. Today is Wednesday, of course,

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Speaker 2: and I want to include something that was published only

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Speaker 2: this morning that covers this off and is worthy, is

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Speaker 2: worthy of a little attention inside Lebanon's currency crisis, how

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Speaker 2: hyperinflation feels. And I'll pick out one or two little

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Speaker 2: bits from it and tell you where to find it later.

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Speaker 2: Lebanon a country on the brink before its economic collapse.

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Speaker 2: Lebanon was a vibrant, cosmopolitan country, often called the Paris

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Speaker 2: of the Middle East. Is economy thrived on banking, tourism

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Speaker 2: and services, positioning it as a bridge between East and West.

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Speaker 2: For Tony, who happens to be a friend of the author,

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Speaker 2: this prosperity was not an illusion. It was his daily life.

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Speaker 2: He said. My life in Lebanon was extraordinary. I ran

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Speaker 2: three thriving businesses and lived a luxurious lifestyle, whether it

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Speaker 2: was the latest cars, the best restaurants, or the hottest

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Speaker 2: clubs be rout had at all. Yet beneath the surface,

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Speaker 2: cracks were forming. Lebanon's banking sector, once a source of pride,

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Speaker 2: was built on unsustainable practices and the country was drowning

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Speaker 2: in debt. For years, Lebanon's Central Bank had pegged the

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Speaker 2: Lebanese pound to the US dollar at an artificially high rate,

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Speaker 2: creating a false sense of stability. This currency peg required

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Speaker 2: constant inflows of dollars to maintain. When those inflows dried up,

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Speaker 2: the house of cards collapsed. And if your interests lie

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Speaker 2: in the direction of mens coin at all, you'll find

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Speaker 2: some interesting, well opinion and information now in a moment.

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Speaker 2: Ashley Rinsburg. Leverrix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to

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Speaker 2: the highest quality. Leverrix relieves hay fever in skin, allergies,

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Speaker 2: or itchy skin. It's a dual action antihistamine and has

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Speaker 2: a unique nasal decongestent action. It's fast acting for fast relief,

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Speaker 2: and it works in under an hour and lasts for

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Speaker 2: over twenty four hours. Leverrix is a tiny tablet that

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Speaker 2: unblocks the nose, deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing.

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Speaker 2: Leverrix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quantity.

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Speaker 2: So next time you're in need of an effective antihistamine,

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Speaker 2: call into the pharmacy and ask for Leveris l e

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Speaker 2: v Rix Leverix and always read the label, take us directed,

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Speaker 2: and if symptoms persist, see your health professional. Farmer Broker

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Speaker 2: Auckland Leighton Smith. We last spoke to Ashley Rinsburg in Well,

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Speaker 2: it was two years ago, in twenty two, and we

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Speaker 2: discussed essentially the Gray Lady winked his book on the

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Speaker 2: New York Times, which was a huge success as far

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Speaker 2: as I'm concerned, and I hope it is. Hope it

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Speaker 2: is or was, well, still is as far as you're concerned. Ashley,

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Speaker 2: Welcome back. It's great to have you on the Lake

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Speaker 2: the Smith podcast.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Leadon glad to be here.

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Speaker 2: And last time we spoke, you were in Tel Aviv

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Speaker 2: and there were rockets falling at that particular time, and

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Speaker 2: here we are today. I want to quote something that

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Speaker 2: you wrote on October fourteen, last year, last Saturday, the

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Speaker 2: world changed. Most of us didn't know it at the time,

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Speaker 2: and what we did know about the situation unfolding in

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Speaker 2: the southern Israel seemed beyond belief. Thirty five Israelis abducted

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Speaker 2: into Gaza, young party goers massacred within Israeli territory. Question

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Speaker 2: Marks follow all of these comments, children babies taken by

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Speaker 2: Hamas terrorists, and scores of people murdered in their homes.

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Speaker 2: None of these things, let alone all of them, was

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Speaker 2: in the realm of the possible. You wrote that and

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Speaker 2: published it a week after October seventh, How would you

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Speaker 2: rate things today compared with what you as you saw

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Speaker 2: it then one week after? Did you have any thought

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Speaker 2: about where this could go?

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Speaker 3: Not entirely.

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Speaker 4: My only thought at the time was that Israel, in

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Speaker 4: order to respond properly to what had happened, what Hamas

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Speaker 4: and its allies had done, was that it would have

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Speaker 4: to challenge the imagination of its enemies, and its enemies

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Speaker 4: being Hamas, his Ballah and he Iran primarily. And what

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Speaker 4: we've seen is that Israel has challenged the imagination of

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Speaker 4: him us. It did us never thought it would or

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Speaker 4: could do, And in the last week or so it's

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Speaker 4: done the exact same with his Ballah.

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Speaker 2: How much planning do you think would have gone into

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Speaker 2: this and.

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Speaker 4: In the case of his Balla, I would think almost

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Speaker 4: two decades since the two thousand and six war in Lebanon.

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Speaker 4: My guess is that there was intensive and long range

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Speaker 4: intelligence and war planning on behalf of Israel which allowed

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Speaker 4: Israel to pull off the kind of absolute strategic coup

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Speaker 4: that it has done in the last week or so

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Speaker 4: through the pager attacks the Beepers, through eliminating the entire

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Speaker 4: command structure of his including recently its leader Hassan Nasralla.

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Speaker 4: With Hamas, the planning I think was probably more ad

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Speaker 4: hoc because I don't think Israel had any expectation that

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Speaker 4: it was going to be attacked the way it was

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Speaker 4: attacked on October seven, and I think in order to

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Speaker 4: make up for Israeli surprise, there was probably a lot

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Speaker 4: of scrambling going on in terms of how how does

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Speaker 4: the country pull off a ground invasion and essentially an

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Speaker 4: occupation of Gaza military occupation of Gaza in order to

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Speaker 4: root out Hamas. I'm guessing a lot of that was

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Speaker 4: done very much on the fly and very much as

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Speaker 4: the situation was unpholding.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that Israeli security, in whichever and all

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Speaker 2: its forms, would have been surprised at the success of

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Speaker 2: what they've had in the last week.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they're surprised.

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Speaker 4: I think this is something they've been planning for many,

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Speaker 4: many years. They've had this option, this sort of it's

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Speaker 4: been called the red button option, with the pagers and

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Speaker 4: also with being able to locate and destroy the entire

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Speaker 4: command structure of Isabella. I think they would have known

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Speaker 4: they had this capability for many, many years, but they

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Speaker 4: probably were avoiding using it because they didn't want to

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Speaker 4: unnecessarily ignite a regional war. When Hamas committed the Atrucity

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Speaker 4: atrocity is on October seventh, and on October eighth, or

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Speaker 4: even on October seventh has Ballap again firing rockets and

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Speaker 4: missiles into Israel, that regional war was already present for

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Speaker 4: Israel and for Israelis. And this is something I think

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Speaker 4: people in the West are missing, where we hear a

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Speaker 4: lot of talk about Israeli escalation. For Israel, the war

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Speaker 4: had already begun, and talk of escalation or de escalation

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Speaker 4: is sort of irrelevant when you have one hundred thousand

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Speaker 4: Israelis displaced from their homes in the north near the

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Speaker 4: northern border with Lebanon. Yeah, you're already in the kind

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Speaker 4: of regional war that everyone else is talking about avoiding.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me turn the tables and ask us the

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Speaker 2: same question from the other side. Do you think that

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Speaker 2: firstly her Maass, secondly Isbella, and thirdly Iran would have

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Speaker 2: expected anything like the payback that they've now got.

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Speaker 4: No, definitely, not, definitely not. I think this is one

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Speaker 4: of the things that Hamas. You know, there's this old

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Speaker 4: old thing of course in war, which is to know

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Speaker 4: your enemy. And Hamas in a way did know its enemy.

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Speaker 4: It knew that Israel had grown a bit complacent. It

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Speaker 4: had thought that Israel was a little bit over interested

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Speaker 4: in peace and stability with Gaza, because Hamas had played

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Speaker 4: that card very handily, where they had kept quiet, deliberately

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Speaker 4: in order to fool Israel into thinking that there's had

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Speaker 4: taken sort of a get along to go along strategy

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Speaker 4: where you know, a sort of a practical piece, a

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Speaker 4: pragmatic piece, if not a formal one, where in reality

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Speaker 4: what they had been doing was planning and this invasion

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Speaker 4: for many years. But what they didn't take into account

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Speaker 4: was their own failing. Hamas was so zealous and so

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Speaker 4: savage and barbaric in its attack, that it actually had

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Speaker 4: an effect of changing its enemy, changing the Israeli posture,

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Speaker 4: changing the Israeli mindset from one of containment and try

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Speaker 4: to limit these kinds of interactions with Hamas into something

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Speaker 4: that looked at the situation, said we have no choice

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Speaker 4: except to wage a war that ends in Hamas's complete

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Speaker 4: military destruction, if not political destruction. So Hamas overplayed its

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Speaker 4: hand drastically, and it never could have seen. I think

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Speaker 4: what twenty to thirty years of Israeli engagement had shown

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Speaker 4: them was that Israel was really really disincentivized from having

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Speaker 4: an aggressive ground invasion and occupation. It really did not

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Speaker 4: want to go there. It was after the Gaza pull

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Speaker 4: out in two thousand and five. It did not Israel

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Speaker 4: did not want to be back in Gaza's the last

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Speaker 4: thing every Israeli wanted in the country.

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Speaker 3: But in this case, it left no choice.

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Speaker 4: When you slaughter fifteen hundred civilians and take over two

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Speaker 4: hundred people hostage into Gaza, you're only asking for the

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Speaker 4: military power next door to you to come in and

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Speaker 4: do something that neither party had really imagined possible. And

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Speaker 4: I think with Hisbella the same as largely true. I

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Speaker 4: think Isbela was thinking about this sort of tit for tat,

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Speaker 4: limited engagement, very contained kind of interaction with Israel, and

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Speaker 4: that's what they thought would go on, and that's what

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Speaker 4: they needed to go on because the moment that they

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Speaker 4: risked all out full confrontation with Israel, what they really

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Speaker 4: risked was a Ran losing its key strategic weapon, which

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Speaker 4: is his Bollah, and once that would happen, once that

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Speaker 4: risk factor was in play, that meant that Iran would

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Speaker 4: become completely exposed to Israel, which is now the case.

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Speaker 4: Iran has is virtually defenseless, Its force projection is very limited,

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Speaker 4: aside from its proxies, which is Hamas, Isballa, the Hutis

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Speaker 4: and some Iraqi militias which are less effective than Hisbola

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Speaker 4: and Homas. I don't think any of these groups saw

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Speaker 4: this kind of route that we've seen that we've seen

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Speaker 4: play on the last weeks and months coming, and I

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Speaker 4: think they have been left in complete disarray.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at an article from The Australian which was

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Speaker 2: published a couple of days ago. Has Israel absorbed all

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Speaker 2: the lessons of the two thousand and six his Bela war. Now,

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Speaker 2: you mentioned two thousand and six a moment ago. Do

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Speaker 2: you think that, well, I would guess by what you

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Speaker 2: said that. Do you think not only have they absorbed

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Speaker 2: all the lessons of two thousand and six, they then

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Speaker 2: embellished them.

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Speaker 4: Definitely, Definitely they have. What they understood from two thousand

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Speaker 4: and six was a they were in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 4: they were relatively Israelis were relatively unprepared for that kind

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Speaker 4: of war.

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Speaker 3: In Israel.

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Speaker 4: There there was a lot of talk among rank and

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Speaker 4: file soldiers as well as officers, that it was an

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Speaker 4: aimless war, that there was no direction. They weren't trying

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Speaker 4: to destroy Habella, they weren't trying to push Hasbella away

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Speaker 4: from the border. They really didn't know what they were

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Speaker 4: doing or why they were there, aside from the fact

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Speaker 4: that they were responding to a very brazen Hisbolla action,

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Speaker 4: which was killing and taking captive Israeli soldiers relatively unprovoked.

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Speaker 3: Again, there was sort of.

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Speaker 4: A calm, pragmatic it's not exactly a piece, but it's

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Speaker 4: sort of a non aggression along the border until that

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Speaker 4: was violated by Hisbella. After that, Israel staged a ground

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Speaker 4: in which was a very very punishing mostly for his Balla.

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Speaker 4: There were Israeli losses, But I think what Israel learned

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Speaker 4: from this is that A you need to be absolutely

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Speaker 4: prepared and B you need to be driven by clear

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Speaker 4: cut strategy, and in this case, the strategy we're seeing

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Speaker 4: emerge is the incapacitation of Hisbolla as a fighting force.

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Speaker 2: Turning to the political front in Israel, there's been there's

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Speaker 2: been any amount of aggravation with regard to netn Yahoo

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Speaker 2: and the way he has been conducting himself the country,

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Speaker 2: et cetera from the opposition, and my observation is it

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Speaker 2: was it was fairly widespread and in fact, in fact growing,

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Speaker 2: tell me if I'm wrong. But the response to October sixth,

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Speaker 2: as it is now revealing itself, has had what effect politically.

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Speaker 4: Netanya, who's been in the last few weeks, actually very

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Speaker 4: much strengthened. I would even say in the last week

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Speaker 4: that his position has strengthened drastically. His polling has gone

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Speaker 4: up very markedly.

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Speaker 2: And you know, this is.

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Speaker 4: A case of nothing succeeds quite like success where there

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Speaker 4: you know, the opposition to him is still there, it's

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Speaker 4: still very much present, especially since Israel still has something

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Speaker 4: like one hundred hostages being held in Gaza with no

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Speaker 4: notion how they're going to be returned, and at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day, the opposition has a very valid point,

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Speaker 4: which is that the government was responsible for securing our

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Speaker 4: safety as israelis in the country, and it failed utterly

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Speaker 4: in the worst possible way, and the person who bears

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Speaker 4: responsibility for that is the person.

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Speaker 3: At the top.

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Speaker 4: The bucks should stop somewhere and should stop with nt

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Speaker 4: Nyahu in this case, because he's actually pulled off such

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Speaker 4: an incredible strategic feat. I think he's been given a

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Speaker 4: massive political lifeline. We'll see in the next few weeks

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Speaker 4: and months, especially coming up to the election in America

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Speaker 4: in November. Which way that goes, this could lead to

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Speaker 4: much greater pressure on Hamas and on Iran to put

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Speaker 4: pressure on Hamas to cut a deal with Israel, a

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Speaker 4: realistic deal, not a deal that it knows Israel cannot

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Speaker 4: possibly agree to, that would have a ceasefire in Gaza

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Speaker 4: and the return of the hostages and perhaps some other

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Speaker 4: kinds of conditions. But is Natanyahu's hand is massively, massively

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Speaker 4: strengthened by what's gone on just in the last week, so.

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Speaker 2: Many tangents to proceed with. Yeah. In twenty eighteen, Henry

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Speaker 2: Kissinger observed that Donald Trump was one of those historical

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Speaker 2: characters who appears from time to time to mark the

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Speaker 2: end of an era, they to force it to give

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Speaker 2: up its old tenses. Close quote. The same could be

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Speaker 2: said about last year's October seventh attacks, the full impact

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Speaker 2: of which we are only now beginning to comprehend. The

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Speaker 2: introduction of Donald Trump into this is is for a

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Speaker 2: reason as a continuation of the position that Nettna, who

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Speaker 2: now finds himself in, as you've just described there, there's

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Speaker 2: been quite a bit from some quarters, in particular in

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Speaker 2: America describing the situation that Netanya, who found himself in

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Speaker 2: with the opposition and the media, was very similar to

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Speaker 2: the one that the Trump has experienced. And I wonder

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Speaker 2: if there's not a parallel from which one could one

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Speaker 2: can learn from the other. But more importantly, as you

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Speaker 2: were alluding, the outcome of November five will have some

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Speaker 2: considerable input into what happens to let Nyaho and too

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Speaker 2: Israel in general.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely the absolutely decisive.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think Kamala Harris as president will

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Speaker 4: have much patience for giving Israel, to giving Israel too

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Speaker 4: much strategic leeway. I mean, she's shown that. Biden has

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Speaker 4: also shown a certain degree of impatience with You know,

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Speaker 4: at the end of the day, they have a very

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Speaker 4: specific kind of political voter base that they need to

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Speaker 4: appeal to, and they are not looking to anger a

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Speaker 4: lot of their progressive voters who are anti Israel.

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Speaker 3: Just call it what it is.

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Speaker 4: So there imperative will be to reign and to the

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Speaker 4: extent that they can, It's not clear that they can

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Speaker 4: at this point because Biden has been trying and he's

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Speaker 4: been failing.

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Speaker 3: For most of the war.

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Speaker 4: He has been there for Israel, he has provided weapons,

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Speaker 4: he did show up, but as the war went on,

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Speaker 4: he was attempting to bring it to a close, mostly

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Speaker 4: for political reasons, and he's not been able to do that.

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Speaker 4: Whereas Trump, as we've seen, really has a sore spot.

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Speaker 3: When it comes to Iran.

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Speaker 4: He remembers the Iranian hostage crisis, where the same revolutionary

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Speaker 4: Islamist revolutionaries that run the country today took the US

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Speaker 4: embassy hostage just after the revolution and humiliated America, humiliated

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Speaker 4: a superpower, and at the time Jimmy Carter was unable

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Speaker 4: to respond. He was unable to muster a commensurate response

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Speaker 4: to pressure Iran to release the hostages. It was only

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Speaker 4: until Ronald Reagan took the office that that happened. And

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Speaker 4: I think Trump looks back on that and says, says

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Speaker 4: to himself, there is no way that a global superpower

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Speaker 4: should be cow towing to a regional power at best,

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Speaker 4: which is why during his presidency he took a remarkably

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Speaker 4: bold step of killing assassinating Solomoni, who is their most

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Speaker 4: important military figure to the Islamic regime in Iran. And

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Speaker 4: that's because you know, I think he has very little

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Speaker 4: patience with Iran. Just it's sort of a mirror image

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Speaker 4: between Kamala Harris's impatience with Israel and Trump's impatients with Iran.

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Speaker 4: So they both have chosen sides, and that election outcome

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Speaker 4: will be very important for what goes what happens next.

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Speaker 4: But I think Israel is also looking at this very

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Speaker 4: narrow gap in time that we have right now from

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Speaker 4: the beginning of October until the election, until we know

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Speaker 4: who is going to be the president elect, And in

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Speaker 4: this sort of gray area, it's got the most freedom

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Speaker 4: to operate that it will have until we know the

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Speaker 4: outcome of that election.

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Speaker 2: It's really quite extraordinary because you described it almost perfectly,

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Speaker 2: if not more so. There's been some considerable discussion about

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Speaker 2: the uncertainties of the scenario, the world situation at the moment,

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Speaker 2: with the American president being not ineffective and a state

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Speaker 2: of some considerable confusion. I'd suggest that exists in the

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Speaker 2: American governance and what alien powers might do, and I'm

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Speaker 2: talking China and even North Korea and Iran, etc. While

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Speaker 2: they've got this opportunity. But instead of that, at this point,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about Israel being, if you're going to be

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Speaker 2: realistic about it and innocent in this, defending itself rather

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Speaker 2: than rather than asserting its strength to gain whatever. It's

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Speaker 2: a reversal of what most people sought. Let me ask

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Speaker 2: you to extend your experience and knowledge with regard to

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Speaker 2: those other countries that I just mentioned, and you might

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Speaker 2: want to include a couple more. Are you of any

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Speaker 2: opinion they could extend the stress that we're experiencing at

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Speaker 2: the moment.

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Speaker 4: I think there's certainly an incentive for some of them.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Russia and Iran have been more closely cooperating

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Speaker 4: over the last few months. I mean, this is a

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Speaker 4: long standing relationship, but we have now Iran supplying missiles

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Speaker 4: and other weaponry to Russia and vice versa. Russia has

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Speaker 4: supplied some air defense to Iran, and this is sort

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Speaker 4: of that the larger you know, the Iranians talk about

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Speaker 4: the axis of resistance, which is sort of an Islamic

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Speaker 4: resistance to Israel, which spans Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen.

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Speaker 4: But there's a bigger axis, which is the one you've

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Speaker 4: sort of alluded to, which is China, Russia, Iran, and

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Speaker 4: Venezuela sort of circling the globe from Far East Asia

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Speaker 4: to the Americas. So they are trying to maintain that

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Speaker 4: power structure visa vi the West, where Israel, of course,

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Speaker 4: is very closely aligned to the United States. It's one

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Speaker 4: of its closest allies, and for China Russia to be

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Speaker 4: able to disrupt that alliance would be a major strategic

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Speaker 4: win for them, which is why they've opposed Israel. That said,

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Speaker 4: no one wants to back a loser, especially not China.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Russia might have some sort of ideological sympathies

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Speaker 4: with the Iran that dig back to the Soviet Union,

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Speaker 4: which we know Putin is still very much nostalgic about.

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Speaker 4: But I don't think China has any such qualms and

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Speaker 4: any such ideological hang ups. I think they're looking to

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Speaker 4: who is most effective in boosting Chinese power and Chinese interests.

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Speaker 4: Right now, the equation is still pretty simple because Israel

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Speaker 4: is so tightly aligned with the US and allied with

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Speaker 4: the US. But I would think that China's got its

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Speaker 4: antenna up in the air waiting to see who is

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Speaker 4: the smarter power to back, especially as we see a

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Speaker 4: weakened US on the world stage, where the United States

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Speaker 4: has not asserted itself the way that it had in

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Speaker 4: the past decades, and China is looking to step into

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Speaker 4: that role, and it wants strong allies. It doesn't want

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Speaker 4: weak allies, and if it looks at Iran and looks

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Speaker 4: at a weak ally, it would rather trade I would

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Speaker 4: think for a strong, bold, technologically sophisticated Israel rather than

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Speaker 4: a sort of backward Islamist fundamentalist regime that we have

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Speaker 4: in Iran.

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Speaker 2: If I can refer to the situation in the Middle

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Speaker 2: East as essentially a religion issue, is what's going on

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Speaker 2: at the moment. Do you think driven by what has

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Speaker 2: existed in the past, or is there a broadening of

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Speaker 2: should we say skul for the situation that well that exists.

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Speaker 4: Now we're seeing something that's really I think unfolding and

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Speaker 4: emerging in a very different way than we had seen

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Speaker 4: in the past. You know, under the Trump administration, we

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Speaker 4: had the Abraham Accords, which forged actual peace between Israel

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Speaker 4: and a number of Gulf Arab states, which was truly,

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Speaker 4: truly remarkable, and right up until October seventh, Israel and

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Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia were on track to normalize relations, so they

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Speaker 4: would have diplomatic relations and sort of over time unfold

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Speaker 4: economic relations, trade relations, all all those kinds of things,

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Speaker 4: just as we have done with UAE with Dubai, where

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Speaker 4: you now have Israelis living in Dubai, buying property there,

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Speaker 4: working there, you have synagogues there, you have kosher food.

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Speaker 4: You have really a vibrant interchange between these two peoples

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Speaker 4: that was really unimaginable just a few years ago. So

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Speaker 4: this dynamic between the Gulf States is something that's totally new,

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Speaker 4: and I think in the background of what we're seeing

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Speaker 4: is Iran doing its best to disrupt not just Israel's

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Speaker 4: role in this, but it's other arch enemy, which is

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Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia. So it's sort of two sects of Islam

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Speaker 4: vying for pre eminence and for power in the region,

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Speaker 4: and Israel in some regards becomes a wedge issue for

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Speaker 4: that even though the Iranians, I think the Iranian Islamist

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Speaker 4: regime that's controlling the country do actually authentically hate Israel

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Speaker 4: and they hate the existence of the Jewish state in

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Speaker 4: the Middle East. But it is I think an emerging

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Speaker 4: dynamic just because we're still seeing so much possibility for

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Speaker 4: change among relations between Israel and other Arab states, and

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Speaker 4: I do think that Saudi Arabia normalization is very much

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Speaker 4: still on the table. Incredibly, even through a war in Gaza,

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Speaker 4: it has not gone away, primarily because it's an Iran

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Speaker 4: back to war on the other side of Hamas is

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Speaker 4: back by Iran. Kasballa of course is backed and sponsored

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Speaker 4: by Iran. So in a way, the studies are looking

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Speaker 4: on and seeing Israel doing their dirty work for them

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Speaker 4: and doing it very effectively. And again this is all

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Speaker 4: about trying to back a winner in the region. That's

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Speaker 4: what everybody wants and at the moment at least anything

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Speaker 4: can change. But at the moment Israel is obviously winning.

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Speaker 2: Very well. Put can Lebanon be saved? Do you sink?

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Speaker 4: I have some extreme reservations about whether or not it

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Speaker 4: can be. Lebanon has been in a spiral long before

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Speaker 4: the events of the last week or two, been in

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Speaker 4: an economic spiral. We had the Beirut port blast, where

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Speaker 4: the government had allowed explosives in the order of quantity

433
00:28:18,933 --> 00:28:21,853
Speaker 4: of tons and tons of explosives to be kept in

434
00:28:21,933 --> 00:28:26,053
Speaker 4: port conditions in the port that was ignited somehow through

435
00:28:26,093 --> 00:28:29,053
Speaker 4: some kind of fault and literally blew up the entire

436
00:28:29,133 --> 00:28:34,693
Speaker 4: city of Beirut. It destroyed I think unbelievably high.

437
00:28:34,573 --> 00:28:36,213
Speaker 3: Number of structures in the city.

438
00:28:37,573 --> 00:28:44,733
Speaker 4: There's rampant inflation, there's the currency that's spiraling downward. There

439
00:28:44,933 --> 00:28:49,653
Speaker 4: is just crisis after crisis after crisis. That's in part

440
00:28:50,053 --> 00:28:54,733
Speaker 4: due to political dysfunction and mismanagement and corruption in the country.

441
00:28:55,573 --> 00:28:59,533
Speaker 4: It's largely to do with Hizbollah sort of upsetting the

442
00:28:59,573 --> 00:29:03,853
Speaker 4: balance of power, the very delicate balance of sectarian and

443
00:29:03,973 --> 00:29:10,373
Speaker 4: ethnic relations within Lebanon and using that that destabilization to

444
00:29:10,493 --> 00:29:13,973
Speaker 4: its own benefit, to empower itself and.

445
00:29:13,933 --> 00:29:15,173
Speaker 3: Now where you have.

446
00:29:16,853 --> 00:29:21,413
Speaker 4: Borderline war in Lebanon again, it's hard to see how

447
00:29:21,453 --> 00:29:24,213
Speaker 4: it recovers. It's hard to see how it re establishes

448
00:29:24,853 --> 00:29:30,453
Speaker 4: that very very careful balance and that to establish an

449
00:29:30,493 --> 00:29:34,453
Speaker 4: equilibrium within Lebanon. I don't know how that gets done

450
00:29:34,573 --> 00:29:36,573
Speaker 4: this day and age. I think the one thing that

451
00:29:36,693 --> 00:29:39,413
Speaker 4: Lebanon could do, and I'm not sure it will or

452
00:29:39,453 --> 00:29:43,133
Speaker 4: it's truly able to, but is to sever tize from Iran.

453
00:29:43,453 --> 00:29:45,813
Speaker 4: That would be the first truly healthy step that it

454
00:29:45,853 --> 00:29:48,933
Speaker 4: could take to align itself with it with the Gulf

455
00:29:48,973 --> 00:29:53,653
Speaker 4: States and to try to try to receive economic support

456
00:29:53,653 --> 00:29:56,293
Speaker 4: from them, try to boost trade among Golf States and

457
00:29:56,413 --> 00:30:01,453
Speaker 4: Lebanon and open its borders, open its open trade relations

458
00:30:01,453 --> 00:30:04,453
Speaker 4: with Israel. I don't know that any of those things

459
00:30:04,453 --> 00:30:07,213
Speaker 4: are actually going to happen. So in the meantime, it

460
00:30:07,253 --> 00:30:11,973
Speaker 4: looks pretty grim.

461
00:30:12,053 --> 00:30:18,973
Speaker 2: And if the grimness uh self fulfills what what they am, well,

462
00:30:18,973 --> 00:30:20,933
Speaker 2: who would fill who and what would fill the void?

463
00:30:22,853 --> 00:30:24,413
Speaker 3: That's a great question.

464
00:30:24,773 --> 00:30:29,653
Speaker 4: I mean, Hybola has been so overwhelmingly dominant inside of

465
00:30:29,733 --> 00:30:34,973
Speaker 4: Lebanon for so long, politically, socially, economically, of course, militarily,

466
00:30:36,213 --> 00:30:41,613
Speaker 4: it's not clear which of the many sects that are

467
00:30:41,653 --> 00:30:45,013
Speaker 4: involved in the governing of Lebanon could actually step in

468
00:30:45,573 --> 00:30:47,533
Speaker 4: if it's not clear if any one of them could

469
00:30:47,613 --> 00:30:50,613
Speaker 4: would be able to forge some kind of truce with

470
00:30:50,733 --> 00:30:55,133
Speaker 4: the others or some kind of coalition to govern. It's

471
00:30:55,173 --> 00:30:58,893
Speaker 4: it's really a big question mark for for that state

472
00:30:58,973 --> 00:31:01,813
Speaker 4: to understand, for them to understand what kind of state,

473
00:31:01,853 --> 00:31:04,533
Speaker 4: what kind of country they want to be, and they're

474
00:31:04,573 --> 00:31:07,733
Speaker 4: able to be this day and age. I mean, the

475
00:31:07,813 --> 00:31:12,293
Speaker 4: potential there is really remarkable. It's an amazing country. Of course,

476
00:31:12,293 --> 00:31:15,373
Speaker 4: I've not been able to go there. I'm Israelian. It's

477
00:31:15,413 --> 00:31:18,413
Speaker 4: illegal for it's actually illegal for a Lebanese person to

478
00:31:18,533 --> 00:31:20,053
Speaker 4: even speak to in Israeli.

479
00:31:20,333 --> 00:31:22,013
Speaker 3: That's how deep the animosity is.

480
00:31:22,533 --> 00:31:27,013
Speaker 4: But from what I understand, a beautiful country obviously is

481
00:31:27,013 --> 00:31:33,173
Speaker 4: an incredibly rich tradition, rich cultural tradition, intellectual tradition, and

482
00:31:33,253 --> 00:31:35,853
Speaker 4: if it's able to find its way back to that tradition,

483
00:31:36,293 --> 00:31:38,773
Speaker 4: then it's got a bright future head But at first

484
00:31:38,813 --> 00:31:42,493
Speaker 4: and foremost, you have to just uproot the Islamism that

485
00:31:42,533 --> 00:31:45,693
Speaker 4: has taken hold of the country, that's got a stranglehold

486
00:31:46,013 --> 00:31:48,333
Speaker 4: on that country. I don't see how anything else can

487
00:31:48,533 --> 00:31:50,253
Speaker 4: happen without that happening.

488
00:31:50,293 --> 00:31:54,013
Speaker 2: First, I never made it to I've been to Israel,

489
00:31:54,253 --> 00:31:58,093
Speaker 2: I never made it to Libanon, but it is a

490
00:31:58,133 --> 00:32:01,093
Speaker 2: place that I wanted to. I was very keen to

491
00:32:01,133 --> 00:32:05,173
Speaker 2: go to for a variety of reasons. But it's now very,

492
00:32:05,253 --> 00:32:08,133
Speaker 2: very disappointing, and I can't see any way that I

493
00:32:08,133 --> 00:32:12,053
Speaker 2: will liver get to Lebanon because it's going to take

494
00:32:12,093 --> 00:32:14,533
Speaker 2: some considerable time for it to be first of all,

495
00:32:14,693 --> 00:32:17,613
Speaker 2: to solve its problems, and secondly to be in any

496
00:32:17,613 --> 00:32:18,773
Speaker 2: sort of state for tourism.

497
00:32:18,813 --> 00:32:23,373
Speaker 4: I would have thought, yeah, I think you're right about that,

498
00:32:23,413 --> 00:32:26,333
Speaker 4: which again it's a shame because it's a beautiful, beautiful country.

499
00:32:26,813 --> 00:32:28,373
Speaker 3: You can see it on photos if you look.

500
00:32:28,413 --> 00:32:31,613
Speaker 4: You can read about its history, you know, and Lebanon

501
00:32:31,773 --> 00:32:35,533
Speaker 4: was was sort of created as a Christian haven in

502
00:32:35,573 --> 00:32:41,253
Speaker 4: the Middle East for Maronite Christians and other Christians, Arab Christians,

503
00:32:41,973 --> 00:32:47,893
Speaker 4: and that original vision of Lebanon has been completely wrecked,

504
00:32:48,373 --> 00:32:53,573
Speaker 4: completely wrecked by Islamism, who obviously, you know, the Muslims

505
00:32:53,573 --> 00:32:56,133
Speaker 4: have a place in that vision as well, but not

506
00:32:56,293 --> 00:32:59,533
Speaker 4: as the dominant force that has sucked the whole country

507
00:32:59,573 --> 00:33:04,493
Speaker 4: down into a vortex, and Iranian vortex. So it doesn't

508
00:33:04,493 --> 00:33:07,533
Speaker 4: look great, unfortunately. I mean, look at Syria. It's neighbor

509
00:33:07,853 --> 00:33:10,893
Speaker 4: where you had a very similar effect.

510
00:33:11,253 --> 00:33:14,373
Speaker 3: And for a long time, of course, Syria occupied Lebanon.

511
00:33:14,453 --> 00:33:19,173
Speaker 4: Syria was an occupying force within Lebanon until fairly recently

512
00:33:19,693 --> 00:33:23,373
Speaker 4: it governed Lebanon, and it was sort of a proxy

513
00:33:23,413 --> 00:33:26,053
Speaker 4: within a proxy. And again this is all tied back

514
00:33:26,093 --> 00:33:28,733
Speaker 4: to Iran, and this is all part of Iran's strategy

515
00:33:28,733 --> 00:33:33,253
Speaker 4: that it's been building and implementing relentlessly since the early

516
00:33:33,333 --> 00:33:34,093
Speaker 4: nineteen eighties.

517
00:33:34,933 --> 00:33:39,733
Speaker 2: So let me challenge you on how good you are,

518
00:33:40,053 --> 00:33:43,653
Speaker 2: because so far you're proving to be brilliant. But the

519
00:33:43,773 --> 00:33:49,893
Speaker 2: question is how did Israel kill hessem Estralla sixty feet underground?

520
00:33:50,053 --> 00:33:52,133
Speaker 2: How did they get to him?

521
00:33:52,613 --> 00:33:57,333
Speaker 4: My understanding is that they used obviously bunker bustering bombs.

522
00:33:57,933 --> 00:34:02,173
Speaker 4: Where they got the bunker busting bombs from unclear? It's

523
00:34:02,213 --> 00:34:06,973
Speaker 4: probably they're probably American bombs. They're able to penetrate that

524
00:34:07,173 --> 00:34:08,133
Speaker 4: deep into the earth.

525
00:34:09,053 --> 00:34:15,173
Speaker 3: It may not be. I think that the more remarkable.

526
00:34:15,173 --> 00:34:17,933
Speaker 4: Feat here is one of intelligence, which is how did

527
00:34:17,973 --> 00:34:21,573
Speaker 4: they How did the Israeli military intelligence and the Mosad

528
00:34:22,173 --> 00:34:24,693
Speaker 4: know that Nostralla is going to be at that location?

529
00:34:24,853 --> 00:34:26,053
Speaker 3: At that particular time.

530
00:34:26,533 --> 00:34:28,733
Speaker 4: This is a man who's been in hiding since two

531
00:34:28,813 --> 00:34:32,533
Speaker 4: thousand and six. He has not shown his face except

532
00:34:32,573 --> 00:34:36,493
Speaker 4: on videos. He's not been above ground as far as

533
00:34:36,533 --> 00:34:41,453
Speaker 4: we know. So somehow Israel has managed to track his

534
00:34:41,773 --> 00:34:46,173
Speaker 4: movements and whereabouts without him knowing that, without any of

535
00:34:46,213 --> 00:34:52,853
Speaker 4: his Ballah's counter intelligence operations, figuring that out and doing

536
00:34:52,893 --> 00:34:56,053
Speaker 4: this to the effect that they were able to kill

537
00:34:56,173 --> 00:34:59,253
Speaker 4: him and a number of his senior deputies and a

538
00:34:59,573 --> 00:35:05,693
Speaker 4: senior officer from the Islamic Revolutionary Guard at the same time,

539
00:35:07,053 --> 00:35:11,733
Speaker 4: within days after decimating the entire top ranks of his BALLA.

540
00:35:12,253 --> 00:35:15,653
Speaker 4: Part of this had to do with the beepers, the

541
00:35:15,653 --> 00:35:19,773
Speaker 4: pagers that Israel had sort of infiltrated and put placed

542
00:35:19,813 --> 00:35:23,573
Speaker 4: explosives inside of. This took place about a week and

543
00:35:23,613 --> 00:35:26,733
Speaker 4: a half ago, where they at the same time, at

544
00:35:26,733 --> 00:35:29,613
Speaker 4: three point thirty in the afternoon, detonated them. These were

545
00:35:29,773 --> 00:35:33,853
Speaker 4: being used by his Balla operatives to communicate because prior

546
00:35:33,973 --> 00:35:38,653
Speaker 4: to that, Israel had infiltrated their cell phones, and his

547
00:35:38,813 --> 00:35:43,453
Speaker 4: Ballad learned about this and told told their operatives told

548
00:35:43,493 --> 00:35:46,333
Speaker 4: their officers to get rid of the cell phones, and

549
00:35:46,373 --> 00:35:49,813
Speaker 4: Nocerella famously told them to bury them underground or put

550
00:35:49,813 --> 00:35:53,613
Speaker 4: them in an iron box, and instead his bala distributed

551
00:35:53,613 --> 00:35:56,653
Speaker 4: these pages because they believed that they could not be infiltrated.

552
00:35:57,133 --> 00:36:01,733
Speaker 4: It turns out that Israel had probably engineered this entire

553
00:36:01,853 --> 00:36:05,853
Speaker 4: sequence of events, beginning with the cell phones right through

554
00:36:05,933 --> 00:36:09,173
Speaker 4: to the pagers, and what it meant for Nostralla and

555
00:36:09,253 --> 00:36:12,173
Speaker 4: his top leadership was that because they no longer had

556
00:36:12,213 --> 00:36:16,413
Speaker 4: reliable communications, they had to meet in person, and having

557
00:36:16,413 --> 00:36:18,933
Speaker 4: met in person, that brought them to the same place

558
00:36:18,973 --> 00:36:22,613
Speaker 4: at the same time, and boom, that's where Israel delivers

559
00:36:22,653 --> 00:36:27,653
Speaker 4: its coup de grass and kills basically the entire leadership.

560
00:36:28,053 --> 00:36:30,533
Speaker 3: So how Israel pulled this off?

561
00:36:30,573 --> 00:36:33,253
Speaker 4: I mean, if this story ever gets told, and I'm

562
00:36:33,293 --> 00:36:35,573
Speaker 4: not sure it ever will, but if it does, it

563
00:36:35,613 --> 00:36:39,973
Speaker 4: will be one of the most remarkable achievements of intelligence

564
00:36:39,973 --> 00:36:44,653
Speaker 4: of any intelligence agency in the history of modern intelligence.

565
00:36:44,693 --> 00:36:47,493
Speaker 3: There's just nothing. There's nothing like it. There's nothing that

566
00:36:47,533 --> 00:36:49,293
Speaker 3: can compare to it that we know of.

567
00:36:49,893 --> 00:36:54,173
Speaker 4: So this is something that's obviously been planned for many,

568
00:36:54,173 --> 00:36:57,573
Speaker 4: many years, and it's the benefit of Israel having all

569
00:36:57,653 --> 00:37:03,173
Speaker 4: this time since two thousand and six to really plan, deliberate, plot,

570
00:37:03,893 --> 00:37:06,973
Speaker 4: prepare for this kind of eventuality.

571
00:37:06,733 --> 00:37:10,453
Speaker 2: Really quite extraordinary. Let's turn our attention to the resolving

572
00:37:10,573 --> 00:37:13,933
Speaker 2: of the shall we say, the political situation as far

573
00:37:13,973 --> 00:37:18,453
Speaker 2: as Israel's concerned. The Caroline click, I don't know your

574
00:37:18,453 --> 00:37:21,533
Speaker 2: thoughts on her. You may care to share them, you

575
00:37:21,573 --> 00:37:25,693
Speaker 2: may not. A one state plan for peace in the

576
00:37:25,733 --> 00:37:31,693
Speaker 2: Middle East is the Israeli solution? What do you say,

577
00:37:32,893 --> 00:37:34,893
Speaker 2: not the any one? Of course, there's plenty of people

578
00:37:35,253 --> 00:37:38,253
Speaker 2: who are arguing the same thing, and plenty of people

579
00:37:38,253 --> 00:37:41,093
Speaker 2: who are arguing for a two state solution your sorts.

580
00:37:41,413 --> 00:37:45,693
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I guess what Caroline means by that is

581
00:37:46,213 --> 00:37:49,173
Speaker 4: that there is not going She does not want there

582
00:37:49,253 --> 00:37:54,573
Speaker 4: to be a Palestinian state alongside in Israeli state, so

583
00:37:54,613 --> 00:37:58,373
Speaker 4: that the two state solution obviously refers to an Israeli

584
00:37:58,453 --> 00:38:01,773
Speaker 4: state and next to it a separate Palestinian state that

585
00:38:01,893 --> 00:38:06,813
Speaker 4: is somehow formed from Gaza and parts with the West Bank.

586
00:38:08,613 --> 00:38:11,453
Speaker 4: The two state solution, even though it's sort of been

587
00:38:11,493 --> 00:38:16,093
Speaker 4: taken as a sort of geopolitical gospel over the last

588
00:38:16,453 --> 00:38:20,453
Speaker 4: twenty to thirty years, looks increasingly unlikely.

589
00:38:21,293 --> 00:38:23,373
Speaker 3: It's hard to see any.

590
00:38:23,253 --> 00:38:27,093
Speaker 4: Israeli government or any Israeli population at this point getting

591
00:38:27,093 --> 00:38:30,493
Speaker 4: behind that and saying, yes, we want to have a

592
00:38:30,533 --> 00:38:34,973
Speaker 4: state next to us of Palestinians who have an ability

593
00:38:34,973 --> 00:38:37,973
Speaker 4: at least to create an armed force or to bring

594
00:38:38,013 --> 00:38:40,333
Speaker 4: in arms the way Hamas has been doing for the

595
00:38:40,413 --> 00:38:45,173
Speaker 4: last fifteen to twenty years, especially because something that gets

596
00:38:45,493 --> 00:38:47,773
Speaker 4: sort of left out a lot about this conversation is

597
00:38:47,813 --> 00:38:49,973
Speaker 4: that that was the state that was offered to the

598
00:38:49,973 --> 00:38:55,293
Speaker 4: Palestinians in two thousand at Camp David Broker by Clinton

599
00:38:55,813 --> 00:38:59,213
Speaker 4: with edhud Barak as the Israeli representative the Prime Minister

600
00:38:59,253 --> 00:39:02,813
Speaker 4: at the time, and yes Ir Arafat for the Palestinians.

601
00:39:03,093 --> 00:39:07,613
Speaker 4: The deal was to give the Palestinians Gaza I think

602
00:39:07,813 --> 00:39:10,973
Speaker 4: ninety percent of the West Bank and East Jerusalem as

603
00:39:11,013 --> 00:39:11,453
Speaker 4: the capital.

604
00:39:11,533 --> 00:39:12,933
Speaker 3: Is exactly what they've been.

605
00:39:12,813 --> 00:39:17,013
Speaker 4: Asking for, demanding for the last since the nineteen sixty

606
00:39:17,053 --> 00:39:21,773
Speaker 4: seven war. And in response, Arafat walked away and started

607
00:39:21,973 --> 00:39:24,453
Speaker 4: a terror war in the form of the Second Intifada

608
00:39:24,493 --> 00:39:27,333
Speaker 4: that lasted for two three years and resulted in the

609
00:39:27,373 --> 00:39:32,333
Speaker 4: death of thousands of Israelis through suicide bombings. So even

610
00:39:32,373 --> 00:39:34,893
Speaker 4: after that, I think the majority of Israelis were willing

611
00:39:35,053 --> 00:39:37,213
Speaker 4: to still make a peace deal with the Palestinians. I

612
00:39:37,213 --> 00:39:40,493
Speaker 4: would say, even the majority of Israelis wanted a peace

613
00:39:40,533 --> 00:39:44,453
Speaker 4: deal and were willing to make painful concessions like the

614
00:39:44,493 --> 00:39:48,133
Speaker 4: withdrawal from Gaza in two thousand and five, where Israeli

615
00:39:48,253 --> 00:39:52,453
Speaker 4: unilaterally left Gaza and gave it to the Palestinians to govern.

616
00:39:52,773 --> 00:39:57,293
Speaker 4: And what we have seen, even after the years and

617
00:39:57,373 --> 00:40:01,773
Speaker 4: decades of rockets being fired at Israel by Hamas from Gaza,

618
00:40:02,333 --> 00:40:05,893
Speaker 4: the Israelis I think we're still more optimistic about a

619
00:40:05,893 --> 00:40:10,693
Speaker 4: two state solution after October. I think that Tuesday solution

620
00:40:10,933 --> 00:40:15,373
Speaker 4: is practically dead. I cannot imagine any Israeli government even

621
00:40:15,613 --> 00:40:17,733
Speaker 4: daring to raise it as an issue at this point.

622
00:40:18,213 --> 00:40:23,933
Speaker 4: Public sentiment, it's not just it's that, it's it's antagonistic

623
00:40:23,973 --> 00:40:27,333
Speaker 4: toward the pastings. It's more just that when you have

624
00:40:28,053 --> 00:40:30,573
Speaker 4: made peace of matures to a people and in response

625
00:40:31,173 --> 00:40:33,773
Speaker 4: you've had your arm cut off, there's just no way

626
00:40:33,773 --> 00:40:36,173
Speaker 4: you would extend your other arm. It's it's human nature

627
00:40:36,213 --> 00:40:39,213
Speaker 4: at this point. So where this goes in the meantime,

628
00:40:40,173 --> 00:40:42,213
Speaker 4: I think that's the that's the main question.

629
00:40:42,333 --> 00:40:43,933
Speaker 3: What happens in Gaza.

630
00:40:44,533 --> 00:40:48,733
Speaker 4: After Israel pulls it out, pulls its military out, Who governs,

631
00:40:49,093 --> 00:40:53,533
Speaker 4: who establishes law and order, who provides services there. I

632
00:40:53,573 --> 00:40:56,173
Speaker 4: don't think anybody has an answer to that question. Well,

633
00:40:56,293 --> 00:40:57,653
Speaker 4: that is such a difficult question.

634
00:40:57,853 --> 00:41:00,733
Speaker 2: Whether israel leist talking at one stage at least about

635
00:41:00,853 --> 00:41:02,733
Speaker 2: keeping a force in Gaza.

636
00:41:04,893 --> 00:41:06,973
Speaker 4: I think there might even talk of that. I don't

637
00:41:06,973 --> 00:41:10,213
Speaker 4: think that's really going to happen. I think the memory

638
00:41:10,373 --> 00:41:13,533
Speaker 4: of occupation, of the Israeli occupation in Israel is not

639
00:41:13,573 --> 00:41:16,533
Speaker 4: a good one. It's not something that most Israelis look

640
00:41:16,573 --> 00:41:18,653
Speaker 4: back on and think we should do that again. I

641
00:41:18,693 --> 00:41:23,573
Speaker 4: think Israelis were genuinely against the occupation of Gaza. After

642
00:41:23,653 --> 00:41:27,253
Speaker 4: a certain amount of time, most Israelis wanted Israeli forces

643
00:41:27,333 --> 00:41:31,253
Speaker 4: out of Gaza. Not because they were concerned about Gaza,

644
00:41:31,333 --> 00:41:34,173
Speaker 4: so some of them obviously were more because this is

645
00:41:34,213 --> 00:41:37,653
Speaker 4: a civilian army, this is a this is an army

646
00:41:37,373 --> 00:41:42,173
Speaker 4: of the nation's sons and daughters, and people didn't want

647
00:41:42,293 --> 00:41:46,493
Speaker 4: their sons and daughters hanging around Gaza for unclear reasons.

648
00:41:46,493 --> 00:41:47,493
Speaker 3: It wasn't really clear.

649
00:41:47,773 --> 00:41:50,533
Speaker 4: I think we look back and strategically we can see why,

650
00:41:51,013 --> 00:41:53,613
Speaker 4: the strategic why those reasons were in place, what what

651
00:41:53,693 --> 00:41:56,653
Speaker 4: kind of security actually did provide. But I don't think

652
00:41:56,733 --> 00:42:00,773
Speaker 4: in reality that the population would would stomach that.

653
00:42:01,133 --> 00:42:02,893
Speaker 3: I don't think we'd be able to handle.

654
00:42:02,653 --> 00:42:05,853
Speaker 4: Whatever kind of losses would result from that, and I

655
00:42:05,853 --> 00:42:09,653
Speaker 4: don't think the world community would would allow it either.

656
00:42:09,773 --> 00:42:12,453
Speaker 4: So I don't think that's necessarily going to be the

657
00:42:12,493 --> 00:42:15,133
Speaker 4: way forward. But that said, I don't know what the

658
00:42:15,173 --> 00:42:17,573
Speaker 4: way forward is, and I'm not sure anybody else does either.

659
00:42:18,573 --> 00:42:21,853
Speaker 2: What about you yourself. When we spoke last time, as

660
00:42:21,853 --> 00:42:24,613
Speaker 2: I mentioned, you were in Tel Aviv and you were

661
00:42:24,613 --> 00:42:27,413
Speaker 2: living there. You were born in South Africa, you grew

662
00:42:27,493 --> 00:42:31,413
Speaker 2: up in America, settled family, settled in San Diego, and

663
00:42:32,013 --> 00:42:35,013
Speaker 2: you have had what I would call the most interesting,

664
00:42:35,053 --> 00:42:40,013
Speaker 2: intriguing life so far with you, maybe at a rough

665
00:42:40,013 --> 00:42:43,533
Speaker 2: guess halfway through it. You are now resident in London.

666
00:42:45,133 --> 00:42:47,973
Speaker 2: I'm wondering why why did you? Why did you leave

667
00:42:48,173 --> 00:42:50,093
Speaker 2: tel Aviv on this occasion?

668
00:42:52,813 --> 00:42:58,733
Speaker 4: We left because we left in twenty twenty two. I

669
00:42:58,733 --> 00:43:02,213
Speaker 4: think it was more just, you know, sort of as

670
00:43:02,213 --> 00:43:04,573
Speaker 4: you as your kind of reference. I've always moved around,

671
00:43:05,293 --> 00:43:08,613
Speaker 4: and it's just kind of the way that I've I

672
00:43:08,693 --> 00:43:12,093
Speaker 4: was raised. I was raised moving around, and I like

673
00:43:12,173 --> 00:43:15,733
Speaker 4: to explore. I like to explore different ways of living life.

674
00:43:16,413 --> 00:43:19,373
Speaker 4: I like to see the world differently, which is something

675
00:43:19,373 --> 00:43:22,973
Speaker 4: that you really do get from living in a different place.

676
00:43:23,013 --> 00:43:25,373
Speaker 4: I mean, you can get it from visiting places, and

677
00:43:25,413 --> 00:43:28,213
Speaker 4: that's why we travel is such an amazing thing. But

678
00:43:28,413 --> 00:43:30,733
Speaker 4: when you go and you live a different place and

679
00:43:30,773 --> 00:43:36,093
Speaker 4: you're exposed to a whole different kind of culture, to

680
00:43:36,333 --> 00:43:41,293
Speaker 4: new people, to friends, colleagues, and after let's say twenty

681
00:43:41,373 --> 00:43:44,613
Speaker 4: years in Israel, where Israel is a tough place to

682
00:43:44,653 --> 00:43:49,653
Speaker 4: live for so many reasons. It's a challenging culture to

683
00:43:49,693 --> 00:43:53,733
Speaker 4: live in. It's a very fast pace in daily life.

684
00:43:54,013 --> 00:43:58,413
Speaker 4: And you know, there was something appealing about about the UK.

685
00:43:58,893 --> 00:44:02,173
Speaker 4: It always has been to me. It's an amazing Anglo

686
00:44:02,773 --> 00:44:07,253
Speaker 4: history and tradition, political tradition, and literary tradition.

687
00:44:06,973 --> 00:44:07,893
Speaker 3: All these great things.

688
00:44:08,573 --> 00:44:12,053
Speaker 4: Though you know, the UK is in a very difficult

689
00:44:12,093 --> 00:44:15,613
Speaker 4: situation as well. I would say right now, I wouldn't

690
00:44:15,613 --> 00:44:19,653
Speaker 4: say the outlook is very, very rosy in most regards.

691
00:44:19,773 --> 00:44:23,133
Speaker 4: I think this is going to be a bumpy few

692
00:44:23,213 --> 00:44:29,213
Speaker 4: years for the UK, and you know where they're not

693
00:44:29,253 --> 00:44:31,773
Speaker 4: we sed to hear. I don't know, but I think

694
00:44:31,773 --> 00:44:34,333
Speaker 4: people are kind of looking around us here in London

695
00:44:34,453 --> 00:44:38,133
Speaker 4: and throughout the country and thinking where are we headed

696
00:44:38,133 --> 00:44:40,573
Speaker 4: as a country? What are we doing and how are

697
00:44:40,613 --> 00:44:43,373
Speaker 4: we going to face these massive issues that this country

698
00:44:43,413 --> 00:44:46,613
Speaker 4: is facing, such as immigration, the health system that is

699
00:44:46,653 --> 00:44:52,813
Speaker 4: really failing, economic stagnation, things on this level where you

700
00:44:52,893 --> 00:44:56,773
Speaker 4: really have massive problems and people who don't really at

701
00:44:56,813 --> 00:44:59,573
Speaker 4: least at a political level, are not providing solutions.

702
00:45:00,493 --> 00:45:04,013
Speaker 2: Is there a political party in written at the moment

703
00:45:04,053 --> 00:45:06,933
Speaker 2: that is capable of addressing those.

704
00:45:06,693 --> 00:45:11,973
Speaker 3: Things at the moment, I don't see that there is one.

705
00:45:12,093 --> 00:45:17,853
Speaker 4: I think we looked at the Conservatives, who created quite

706
00:45:17,853 --> 00:45:20,973
Speaker 4: a lot of issues in this country. I mean, their

707
00:45:21,093 --> 00:45:25,173
Speaker 4: stance on COVID was in my view a failure. The

708
00:45:25,253 --> 00:45:28,293
Speaker 4: severe lockdowns that obviously they were not alone in that,

709
00:45:29,573 --> 00:45:33,853
Speaker 4: the spending that's gone on here, the unchecked illegal immigration

710
00:45:34,613 --> 00:45:37,933
Speaker 4: across the Channel, and other forms of immigration, net immigration

711
00:45:38,013 --> 00:45:41,973
Speaker 4: here going up and up every year, inability to even

712
00:45:42,013 --> 00:45:45,893
Speaker 4: address the NHS issue, the health system which is failing

713
00:45:46,173 --> 00:45:51,333
Speaker 4: and where you will wait literally years for procedures, important procedures.

714
00:45:51,773 --> 00:45:54,293
Speaker 4: And these are people who are especially older people, who

715
00:45:54,293 --> 00:45:56,773
Speaker 4: have been paying into this system for their entire lives.

716
00:45:57,173 --> 00:46:00,133
Speaker 4: They've been paying their taxes, they've been paying into it,

717
00:46:00,413 --> 00:46:01,973
Speaker 4: and they get to a point where they need some

718
00:46:02,013 --> 00:46:06,413
Speaker 4: sort of very important surgery or procedure, and they're being

719
00:46:06,453 --> 00:46:07,733
Speaker 4: told to wait two years for a.

720
00:46:07,733 --> 00:46:10,733
Speaker 3: Hip or placement for example. These are the kinds of

721
00:46:10,733 --> 00:46:11,773
Speaker 3: things where.

722
00:46:13,133 --> 00:46:16,373
Speaker 4: You know that this has been I think precipitated by

723
00:46:16,413 --> 00:46:17,213
Speaker 4: both parties.

724
00:46:17,413 --> 00:46:19,053
Speaker 3: I don't think there's one or the other to blame.

725
00:46:19,453 --> 00:46:21,493
Speaker 4: But at the same time, there's not a party that

726
00:46:21,533 --> 00:46:26,213
Speaker 4: I can say is that has the ideological fortitude and.

727
00:46:26,253 --> 00:46:27,413
Speaker 3: Is robust enough.

728
00:46:27,693 --> 00:46:30,173
Speaker 4: You know, We've got the Reform Party sort of rising

729
00:46:30,693 --> 00:46:33,733
Speaker 4: and with Nigel Farage, and it's coming in from the wings,

730
00:46:33,773 --> 00:46:35,733
Speaker 4: and it might be exerting some kind of pressure on

731
00:46:35,773 --> 00:46:39,093
Speaker 4: the right, but I don't think it's there yet. I

732
00:46:39,093 --> 00:46:40,653
Speaker 4: don't think it's at a point where it can like

733
00:46:40,693 --> 00:46:44,013
Speaker 4: step into power and really make those kinds of heart changes.

734
00:46:45,653 --> 00:46:49,173
Speaker 2: So, in in concluding or wrapping up anyway, hitting in

735
00:46:49,213 --> 00:46:54,453
Speaker 2: that direction, a couple of a couple of random questions.

736
00:46:55,053 --> 00:46:59,893
Speaker 2: You are writing still for for more than more than

737
00:46:59,933 --> 00:47:02,973
Speaker 2: one outlet. What's your what's your preferred?

738
00:47:05,293 --> 00:47:05,373
Speaker 3: What?

739
00:47:05,453 --> 00:47:08,013
Speaker 2: I really asking, where's the where's the best place for

740
00:47:08,093 --> 00:47:08,853
Speaker 2: my together?

741
00:47:10,373 --> 00:47:10,653
Speaker 3: Yeah?

742
00:47:10,693 --> 00:47:13,293
Speaker 4: So I've been writing more on my substack, which is

743
00:47:13,853 --> 00:47:17,813
Speaker 4: actually Rinsberg dot substack dot com. I've also been writing

744
00:47:18,013 --> 00:47:26,453
Speaker 4: more for a tech culture and politics outlet called Pirate Wires.

745
00:47:26,533 --> 00:47:27,133
Speaker 3: It's based in.

746
00:47:27,093 --> 00:47:32,653
Speaker 4: Silicon Valley and sort of is started by a guy

747
00:47:32,693 --> 00:47:38,013
Speaker 4: named Mike silmana who was worked for Peter Thiel, by

748
00:47:38,053 --> 00:47:42,173
Speaker 4: the co founder of PayPal, and they're doing we're doing

749
00:47:42,733 --> 00:47:45,533
Speaker 4: really great cultural stuff. I've been doing a lot of

750
00:47:45,613 --> 00:47:51,293
Speaker 4: reporting on Wikipedia and how Wikipedia has sort of institutionalized

751
00:47:51,373 --> 00:47:55,573
Speaker 4: bias into its both the way that it structures its foundation,

752
00:47:55,653 --> 00:47:58,053
Speaker 4: the foundation that owns the website that has been making

753
00:47:58,893 --> 00:48:03,373
Speaker 4: alliances with radically progressive foundations in the United States that

754
00:48:03,413 --> 00:48:07,333
Speaker 4: are pushing all sorts of weird defund the police type stuff,

755
00:48:07,373 --> 00:48:09,973
Speaker 4: shut down bridges and whatever else, and.

756
00:48:09,933 --> 00:48:10,813
Speaker 3: They're really funding that.

757
00:48:10,853 --> 00:48:14,453
Speaker 4: So Wikipedia money is going to sort of passing through

758
00:48:14,493 --> 00:48:17,373
Speaker 4: to these radical organizations. And on the other hand, on

759
00:48:17,453 --> 00:48:20,653
Speaker 4: Wikipedia itself, you're seeing a lot a lot of political

760
00:48:20,693 --> 00:48:25,213
Speaker 4: bias on the articles about political topics. And this is

761
00:48:25,293 --> 00:48:28,133
Speaker 4: sort of even though it's an open encyclopedia, in reality

762
00:48:28,173 --> 00:48:31,533
Speaker 4: it's being controlled by a very very small subset of

763
00:48:31,733 --> 00:48:34,213
Speaker 4: editors that have a clear political affiliation.

764
00:48:35,213 --> 00:48:37,893
Speaker 3: And we look at Wikipedia as the world's source of.

765
00:48:37,893 --> 00:48:42,773
Speaker 4: Knowledge, whereas in reality it's.

766
00:48:42,093 --> 00:48:44,293
Speaker 3: Not neutral, it's not objective. It is sort of a

767
00:48:44,333 --> 00:48:45,173
Speaker 3: media property.

768
00:48:45,733 --> 00:48:49,013
Speaker 4: So I've been doing that at pirate Pirate Wires, that's

769
00:48:49,053 --> 00:48:53,413
Speaker 4: piratewires dot com. Got some more Wikipedia stuff coming soon.

770
00:48:53,973 --> 00:48:56,053
Speaker 4: Also been talking a lot about writing a lot about

771
00:48:56,053 --> 00:49:00,573
Speaker 4: censorship and the rising censorship industry in the US and abroad,

772
00:49:00,693 --> 00:49:04,453
Speaker 4: and I imagine that might also include New Zealand.

773
00:49:05,133 --> 00:49:06,333
Speaker 3: So these are the kinds of.

774
00:49:06,373 --> 00:49:08,213
Speaker 4: Things where we're seeing, like a lot of a lot

775
00:49:08,253 --> 00:49:12,133
Speaker 4: of focus about information, the way information is controlled, the

776
00:49:12,173 --> 00:49:15,293
Speaker 4: way it's shaped, the way that things that we believe

777
00:49:15,333 --> 00:49:18,973
Speaker 4: are facts are not facts, but they are the products

778
00:49:19,333 --> 00:49:24,573
Speaker 4: of someone's ideological agenda. So that's the kind of stuff

779
00:49:24,573 --> 00:49:27,133
Speaker 4: that the guys at pirate Wires are really focused on.

780
00:49:27,533 --> 00:49:31,893
Speaker 4: I'm still writing at the substack, my substack on media

781
00:49:31,933 --> 00:49:33,453
Speaker 4: and media bias and that kind of stuff.

782
00:49:34,973 --> 00:49:37,093
Speaker 2: So there's a couple of things that I just want

783
00:49:37,173 --> 00:49:41,453
Speaker 2: to garner your opinion on. The UN has been meeting

784
00:49:41,573 --> 00:49:44,413
Speaker 2: in New York, of course, and they have signed the

785
00:49:44,493 --> 00:49:47,093
Speaker 2: first I'm not even maybe they'll shigne more now, I

786
00:49:47,133 --> 00:49:51,093
Speaker 2: don't know, but they signed the first of three treaties

787
00:49:52,053 --> 00:49:55,253
Speaker 2: that they're trying to disguise for the Americans in wordage,

788
00:49:55,573 --> 00:50:00,733
Speaker 2: but the Pact for the Future, I read it. I

789
00:50:00,733 --> 00:50:05,893
Speaker 2: didn't read it. I read commentary on it yesterday. Yeah,

790
00:50:05,933 --> 00:50:09,093
Speaker 2: and it scares the heck out of me. Yeah, am

791
00:50:09,093 --> 00:50:09,453
Speaker 2: I right?

792
00:50:10,293 --> 00:50:15,533
Speaker 4: Yeah? And again this goes a lot back to a

793
00:50:15,533 --> 00:50:18,933
Speaker 4: lot back to information. I mean, they're talking about global

794
00:50:18,973 --> 00:50:21,533
Speaker 4: governance and this is the stuff that we've been hearing.

795
00:50:21,733 --> 00:50:25,293
Speaker 4: The term governance, it's really something that's associated with the

796
00:50:25,333 --> 00:50:31,973
Speaker 4: World Economic Forum in Davas. And governance is about top

797
00:50:32,093 --> 00:50:38,773
Speaker 4: down control where you're sort of abstracting the sovereign sovereign

798
00:50:38,813 --> 00:50:42,333
Speaker 4: power of states to this sort of meta entity. And

799
00:50:42,373 --> 00:50:45,333
Speaker 4: of course that meta entity is the United Nations. We

800
00:50:45,693 --> 00:50:50,093
Speaker 4: saw how this work worked with so called ESG and DEI,

801
00:50:50,973 --> 00:50:55,453
Speaker 4: the environment, social and governance, these policies about how businesses

802
00:50:55,773 --> 00:50:57,813
Speaker 4: should run. And that's something that came out of the

803
00:50:57,893 --> 00:51:02,533
Speaker 4: UN in the nineteen nineties and slowly trickled up through

804
00:51:02,853 --> 00:51:06,693
Speaker 4: the system to the point where now every big company

805
00:51:07,813 --> 00:51:11,653
Speaker 4: in the US and the UK, and I'm sure New

806
00:51:11,733 --> 00:51:16,813
Speaker 4: Zealand and Australia has to hire and fire and conduct

807
00:51:16,853 --> 00:51:20,053
Speaker 4: itself by these processes that have to do with the

808
00:51:20,173 --> 00:51:25,013
Speaker 4: environment and with diversity and inclusion that I really don't

809
00:51:25,053 --> 00:51:27,933
Speaker 4: have much to do with business, but it's all just

810
00:51:27,973 --> 00:51:32,453
Speaker 4: sort of been just sort of gerrymandered into our lives.

811
00:51:32,853 --> 00:51:36,733
Speaker 4: And what we're seeing now is a similar kind of focus,

812
00:51:37,013 --> 00:51:40,893
Speaker 4: but on the information sphere, because we live lives in

813
00:51:41,093 --> 00:51:45,293
Speaker 4: this landscape of digital information and the question of who

814
00:51:45,333 --> 00:51:48,813
Speaker 4: gets to control that information, who gets to control what's

815
00:51:48,853 --> 00:51:53,253
Speaker 4: considered true and false, disinformation, misinformation. We've heard all these

816
00:51:53,293 --> 00:51:57,533
Speaker 4: new fancy terms, and this is where I think governments,

817
00:51:57,653 --> 00:52:02,973
Speaker 4: but more than governments, these global bodies are trying to

818
00:52:03,053 --> 00:52:06,813
Speaker 4: grab power, and they're doing it through things like the

819
00:52:07,373 --> 00:52:10,213
Speaker 4: Pact for the Future. And again it's always under this

820
00:52:10,453 --> 00:52:15,413
Speaker 4: really soaring rhetoric about brotherhood and all the lovely stuff

821
00:52:15,453 --> 00:52:17,413
Speaker 4: that it's going to bring. But at the end of

822
00:52:17,413 --> 00:52:20,453
Speaker 4: the day, it's I think pretty clearly an attempt to

823
00:52:20,493 --> 00:52:21,213
Speaker 4: gain control.

824
00:52:22,613 --> 00:52:25,933
Speaker 2: Indeed, I don't disagree with the word you said. And

825
00:52:26,013 --> 00:52:31,813
Speaker 2: I discovered something earlier this morning that shocked me. I

826
00:52:31,853 --> 00:52:35,613
Speaker 2: saw a headline that made reference to a prominent medical journal,

827
00:52:37,373 --> 00:52:40,453
Speaker 2: and I wanted to know which it was, and it

828
00:52:40,533 --> 00:52:43,013
Speaker 2: stunned me when I found out it was The Lancet.

829
00:52:43,693 --> 00:52:47,733
Speaker 2: How an anti Israel propaganda platform was turned around. Prominent

830
00:52:47,813 --> 00:52:51,333
Speaker 2: medical journal published pseudo scientific attacks on Israel for years

831
00:52:52,133 --> 00:52:55,493
Speaker 2: until it took the demonization one step too far? What

832
00:52:55,613 --> 00:53:00,013
Speaker 2: accounts for its unprecedented turnaround? And then the follows nine

833
00:53:00,013 --> 00:53:04,693
Speaker 2: pages are very closely typed print out. But the reason

834
00:53:04,733 --> 00:53:08,493
Speaker 2: that I found that was because it came from from

835
00:53:08,573 --> 00:53:13,533
Speaker 2: The Tower, which no longer exists. A very quick brief

836
00:53:13,573 --> 00:53:15,813
Speaker 2: on the Tower, because you you contributed to that.

837
00:53:18,053 --> 00:53:22,813
Speaker 4: Yeah, The Tower was a really great long form magazine

838
00:53:22,853 --> 00:53:28,173
Speaker 4: primarily about Israel Israel related issues, and it was edited

839
00:53:28,213 --> 00:53:31,253
Speaker 4: by a friend of mine named David Hazoni, a great

840
00:53:31,333 --> 00:53:35,093
Speaker 4: editor is also now an author and a book editor.

841
00:53:36,093 --> 00:53:41,693
Speaker 4: And the Lancet, the Lancet is is It's got a

842
00:53:41,773 --> 00:53:43,933
Speaker 4: very interesting history. I mean, the Lancet is now today

843
00:53:43,973 --> 00:53:47,533
Speaker 4: the most influential medical journal in the English language are

844
00:53:47,533 --> 00:53:52,813
Speaker 4: probably in the world. Its roots are in activism and

845
00:53:53,053 --> 00:53:56,253
Speaker 4: sort of socialist minded activism. This is not something that

846
00:53:56,293 --> 00:53:59,133
Speaker 4: anyone at the Lancet has ever hidden. This is known

847
00:53:59,213 --> 00:54:02,013
Speaker 4: as part of its history. I wrote a big piece

848
00:54:02,053 --> 00:54:05,413
Speaker 4: about this for Unheard. If you if you google Unheard

849
00:54:05,453 --> 00:54:08,733
Speaker 4: the Lancet my name, it'll come up. The history of

850
00:54:08,773 --> 00:54:13,093
Speaker 4: the Lancet is a history of making waves, making controversy,

851
00:54:13,373 --> 00:54:16,733
Speaker 4: and each time it creates a new controversy, it gets

852
00:54:16,773 --> 00:54:19,333
Speaker 4: more and more attention, and sometimes they'll do a little

853
00:54:19,333 --> 00:54:21,973
Speaker 4: bit of a retraction or an apology if they don't

854
00:54:22,013 --> 00:54:26,253
Speaker 4: do a retraction. They had a number of big COVID retractions,

855
00:54:26,853 --> 00:54:31,413
Speaker 4: including regarding I think one or two of the medications

856
00:54:31,453 --> 00:54:35,093
Speaker 4: that they considered to be unhealthy. I have to do

857
00:54:35,173 --> 00:54:39,853
Speaker 4: refresh my memory. But they also were the publication that

858
00:54:39,933 --> 00:54:44,813
Speaker 4: printed the lie of a million deaths as a result

859
00:54:44,893 --> 00:54:50,173
Speaker 4: of the Iraq War that was just never true. It

860
00:54:50,253 --> 00:54:52,413
Speaker 4: was something that is sort of one of these fanciful

861
00:54:52,533 --> 00:54:57,853
Speaker 4: Lancet things. Richard Horton, who's the editor of the Lancet,

862
00:54:58,253 --> 00:55:02,333
Speaker 4: really revels in this kind of scandal making. And again

863
00:55:02,373 --> 00:55:04,853
Speaker 4: this is very much true to its own history and

864
00:55:04,893 --> 00:55:08,853
Speaker 4: its origin as a publication that was a tempting to

865
00:55:09,013 --> 00:55:14,453
Speaker 4: establish the London medical to challenge the London medical establishment

866
00:55:15,013 --> 00:55:20,453
Speaker 4: by sort of making false claims, claiming in one of

867
00:55:20,493 --> 00:55:24,653
Speaker 4: its early cases that a surgeon had deliberately tortured a

868
00:55:24,733 --> 00:55:26,853
Speaker 4: patient when they knew that there was not the case.

869
00:55:26,893 --> 00:55:30,653
Speaker 4: This is back to its earliest days, So this is

870
00:55:30,653 --> 00:55:34,053
Speaker 4: sort of the Lancet's mo o. What's really scandalous about it, though,

871
00:55:34,333 --> 00:55:36,893
Speaker 4: is that it gets away with it and that with

872
00:55:37,053 --> 00:55:41,733
Speaker 4: every next new lie that it promulgates, it only becomes

873
00:55:41,813 --> 00:55:44,653
Speaker 4: more and more influential within that world. That's that to

874
00:55:44,693 --> 00:55:46,013
Speaker 4: me is the most amazing part of it.

875
00:55:46,053 --> 00:55:50,253
Speaker 2: Indeed, I'm witnessing the same as everybody else's I think,

876
00:55:50,333 --> 00:55:56,133
Speaker 2: and that is the increase in online articles material, which

877
00:55:56,293 --> 00:56:00,293
Speaker 2: just seems to be exploding and exploding in a very

878
00:56:00,333 --> 00:56:05,333
Speaker 2: satisfactory way. Otherwise I wouldn't have found that that particular

879
00:56:05,453 --> 00:56:07,693
Speaker 2: place on the landst But there's some very good stuff

880
00:56:07,693 --> 00:56:10,373
Speaker 2: out there and contributing to it in a in a

881
00:56:10,413 --> 00:56:16,173
Speaker 2: handsome way. And I conclude with saying thank you so much.

882
00:56:16,813 --> 00:56:20,013
Speaker 2: It's been an even greater pleasure. I think that it

883
00:56:20,093 --> 00:56:22,013
Speaker 2: was the first time. I don't know why, but just

884
00:56:22,053 --> 00:56:24,613
Speaker 2: maybe because it's in the present, in the present.

885
00:56:24,333 --> 00:56:28,493
Speaker 4: But thank you, thanks heaps, thank you for having me.

886
00:56:28,493 --> 00:56:29,533
Speaker 3: I appreciate it very much.

887
00:56:47,893 --> 00:56:50,653
Speaker 2: As a producer. We're here for podcast number two hundred

888
00:56:50,653 --> 00:56:54,013
Speaker 2: and fifty eight and the mail room and the postman

889
00:56:54,013 --> 00:56:57,773
Speaker 2: has arrived. How are you latey? I very well, very

890
00:56:57,813 --> 00:56:58,733
Speaker 2: early in the morning, but.

891
00:56:58,893 --> 00:57:04,373
Speaker 5: Let me start because I'm onto it. Peter says, I

892
00:57:04,493 --> 00:57:08,733
Speaker 5: really enjoyed your talk with Dr Paul Merrick last and

893
00:57:08,773 --> 00:57:11,373
Speaker 5: would have liked to have heard his opinion on dimenthal

894
00:57:11,493 --> 00:57:16,573
Speaker 5: sulfox side or DMSO. I have a friend who is

895
00:57:16,613 --> 00:57:22,413
Speaker 5: a veterinarian, and he says, if every household had ivermecton, hydroxychloroquine,

896
00:57:23,013 --> 00:57:27,853
Speaker 5: medical cannabis and DMSO in their medicine cabinet, nearly every

897
00:57:27,893 --> 00:57:31,173
Speaker 5: pharmaceutical company in the world would go broke. When I

898
00:57:31,253 --> 00:57:33,973
Speaker 5: asked him what DMSO does, he said, you would never

899
00:57:34,013 --> 00:57:38,373
Speaker 5: believe me, and gave me this lenk And I guess

900
00:57:38,453 --> 00:57:45,973
Speaker 5: if you go DMSO, the real miracle solution, search sot net,

901
00:57:46,173 --> 00:57:52,053
Speaker 5: s ott dot net and DMSO. Of course, if you

902
00:57:52,173 --> 00:57:56,973
Speaker 5: search just DMSO or dimentthal sulfoxide, the ses give it

903
00:57:57,013 --> 00:58:00,453
Speaker 5: the same treatment that ivermectin received during the pandemic.

904
00:58:00,973 --> 00:58:04,173
Speaker 2: Love your podcast, says Peter. Peter, thank you. I did

905
00:58:04,213 --> 00:58:05,853
Speaker 2: have a look at that. By the way, the dmt

906
00:58:05,933 --> 00:58:09,933
Speaker 2: O side, I can't remember because it was late last

907
00:58:10,013 --> 00:58:14,293
Speaker 2: night and I can't remember what I saw. I'm sorry, terrible,

908
00:58:14,413 --> 00:58:18,853
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but it seemed it seemed to be worthy

909
00:58:18,893 --> 00:58:22,213
Speaker 2: of a second look. Let's put it that way now

910
00:58:22,573 --> 00:58:26,133
Speaker 2: for your information. You got to wonder why what a

911
00:58:26,293 --> 00:58:30,973
Speaker 2: gender they want sixty to seventeen year olds specifically to

912
00:58:31,093 --> 00:58:34,773
Speaker 2: respond to a climate change survey. Plus, there is a

913
00:58:34,893 --> 00:58:38,493
Speaker 2: special Marie section of the survey. Horizon Pole sounds like

914
00:58:38,533 --> 00:58:43,453
Speaker 2: a woke polling booth and it says, this is the

915
00:58:44,053 --> 00:58:49,293
Speaker 2: actual letter, that is email that he's referring to climate change.

916
00:58:49,333 --> 00:58:51,253
Speaker 2: We want to speak to sixteen to seventeen year olds.

917
00:58:51,773 --> 00:58:54,613
Speaker 2: This survey covers how younger people in New Zealand feel

918
00:58:54,653 --> 00:58:58,773
Speaker 2: about climate change and if they identify mainly as Mary.

919
00:58:59,293 --> 00:59:01,253
Speaker 2: It also has a section with a list of blah

920
00:59:01,333 --> 00:59:04,933
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Yeah, Okay, get them while they're young.

921
00:59:05,133 --> 00:59:06,373
Speaker 2: That's the that's the motto.

922
00:59:07,533 --> 00:59:12,253
Speaker 5: Leadon James, he sends you a link which is extremely complicated,

923
00:59:12,293 --> 00:59:16,053
Speaker 5: but I guess if anybody's interested, they could google Professor

924
00:59:16,133 --> 00:59:20,373
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Sachs. And he says once again, Professor Jeffrey Sachs

925
00:59:20,453 --> 00:59:23,413
Speaker 5: with a clear exposition of the current state of the world,

926
00:59:23,453 --> 00:59:28,333
Speaker 5: together with some very relevant and relatively recent economic history.

927
00:59:28,893 --> 00:59:30,853
Speaker 5: We hope you can find the time to listen because

928
00:59:30,893 --> 00:59:34,453
Speaker 5: it helps to understand the dangerous debacles and progress it

929
00:59:34,613 --> 00:59:38,773
Speaker 5: seems almost everywhere. We can also only hope that in

930
00:59:38,813 --> 00:59:42,133
Speaker 5: the not too distant future, the US realizes the mess

931
00:59:42,133 --> 00:59:44,853
Speaker 5: it's made of the last eighty years and has a

932
00:59:44,893 --> 00:59:48,013
Speaker 5: sea change in its policy outlook. For one thing, the

933
00:59:48,133 --> 00:59:51,253
Speaker 5: US dollar will soon no longer be capable of being weaponized.

934
00:59:51,293 --> 00:59:54,453
Speaker 5: And for another, the US, if it's going to survive

935
00:59:54,493 --> 00:59:58,013
Speaker 5: as the same democratic society that it has been, it

936
00:59:58,133 --> 01:00:01,493
Speaker 5: must put all its energies into paying down its colossal

937
01:00:01,573 --> 01:00:06,093
Speaker 5: debt and drastically overhauling its governance so that it is

938
01:00:06,173 --> 01:00:10,733
Speaker 5: once more governed by elected officials instead of the faithless,

939
01:00:11,013 --> 01:00:17,493
Speaker 5: unelected suits currently heading the country towards economic and nuclear armageddon.

940
01:00:18,213 --> 01:00:21,053
Speaker 5: The world will be a very different place, peaceful and

941
01:00:21,173 --> 01:00:26,653
Speaker 5: prosperous instead of featuring constant belligerents and ongoing financial crises.

942
01:00:27,373 --> 01:00:32,333
Speaker 5: Once again, with all best wishes from us in El Retiro, Columbia.

943
01:00:32,573 --> 01:00:36,213
Speaker 5: That's Jim and Jean, Jim and Gene. Yes, they're very regular.

944
01:00:36,493 --> 01:00:39,933
Speaker 2: That's nice with regard to the US and and the

945
01:00:39,973 --> 01:00:43,653
Speaker 2: state of the nation. Just hold your horses for another

946
01:00:43,693 --> 01:00:47,853
Speaker 2: few weeks. We'll see what happens. But you're correct in

947
01:00:47,893 --> 01:00:52,333
Speaker 2: your suggestions pretty much anyway. From Jeff, I can't wait

948
01:00:52,373 --> 01:00:55,453
Speaker 2: to listen to your podcast featuring doctor Paul Merrick. I

949
01:00:55,493 --> 01:00:57,693
Speaker 2: know a bit about him, primarily because I read a

950
01:00:57,733 --> 01:01:00,973
Speaker 2: book written by a doctor with a CV at least

951
01:01:01,013 --> 01:01:05,493
Speaker 2: as impressive as doctor Merrix, i e. Doctor per Cory

952
01:01:05,973 --> 01:01:10,133
Speaker 2: and erstwhile director of the CDC in the USA. The

953
01:01:10,213 --> 01:01:14,253
Speaker 2: latter mentions the former in his book a number of times,

954
01:01:14,733 --> 01:01:18,133
Speaker 2: including how he was pilloried for having the temerity to

955
01:01:18,213 --> 01:01:22,693
Speaker 2: express his own opinions during COVID, especially around the dwindling

956
01:01:22,773 --> 01:01:28,133
Speaker 2: efficacy of mRNA vaccines and their side effects. It's disturbing

957
01:01:28,213 --> 01:01:32,253
Speaker 2: reading the book I refer to was written by Pierre Cory.

958
01:01:33,253 --> 01:01:36,893
Speaker 2: It's called The War On over Megden. It's hard to

959
01:01:36,973 --> 01:01:40,533
Speaker 2: obtain for what I believe to be quite sinister reasons.

960
01:01:40,573 --> 01:01:43,493
Speaker 2: I highly recommend the book, especially through one such as you,

961
01:01:44,133 --> 01:01:48,573
Speaker 2: an open minded, intelligent man who's he writing about. I

962
01:01:48,613 --> 01:01:51,933
Speaker 2: can assure you of two things. One, I am not

963
01:01:52,173 --> 01:01:57,413
Speaker 2: a conspiracy theorist and pro science. Two. I've been on

964
01:01:57,533 --> 01:02:01,053
Speaker 2: the periphery of an attempted vaccine development in a past

965
01:02:01,133 --> 01:02:05,013
Speaker 2: life in New Zealand the veterinary field, and have been

966
01:02:05,053 --> 01:02:09,373
Speaker 2: involved in agriculture and agribusiness all my life. I have

967
01:02:09,573 --> 01:02:13,133
Speaker 2: and continue to be pro vaccines in general, but like

968
01:02:13,213 --> 01:02:16,373
Speaker 2: doctors Merrick and Corey, I will not take a fourth

969
01:02:16,413 --> 01:02:20,973
Speaker 2: COVID vaccine. My faith in big farmer universities and certain

970
01:02:21,013 --> 01:02:24,853
Speaker 2: government establishments has been eroded. I can tell you that

971
01:02:24,933 --> 01:02:27,773
Speaker 2: both my eldest son and I suffered side effects from

972
01:02:27,773 --> 01:02:32,093
Speaker 2: the vaccine, which I had initially been highly in favor

973
01:02:32,133 --> 01:02:36,533
Speaker 2: of until after our third shots. I cannot understand why

974
01:02:36,573 --> 01:02:40,413
Speaker 2: the new and improved New Zealand government is still advocating

975
01:02:40,493 --> 01:02:44,773
Speaker 2: for and recommending these mRNA vaccines. Well, they're not vaccines

976
01:02:44,813 --> 01:02:47,093
Speaker 2: for a start, so let's get that right. And the

977
01:02:47,173 --> 01:02:49,813
Speaker 2: answer to you last question was because maybe just take

978
01:02:49,853 --> 01:02:52,493
Speaker 2: some longer to wake up. I don't know. These brave

979
01:02:52,573 --> 01:02:58,173
Speaker 2: doctors need to be listened to intently as always, Bess regards, Jeff.

980
01:02:58,933 --> 01:03:02,693
Speaker 5: Layton Gordon says, love your good work and bringing valuable

981
01:03:02,733 --> 01:03:05,293
Speaker 5: issues to the attention for those of us hungry for

982
01:03:05,333 --> 01:03:09,773
Speaker 5: the use of common sense and enlightenment on your recommendations,

983
01:03:09,813 --> 01:03:12,973
Speaker 5: I purchased a copy of Climate Actually Nothing to Fear.

984
01:03:13,573 --> 01:03:17,333
Speaker 5: What a fabulous, simple and easy to understand assembly of

985
01:03:17,453 --> 01:03:21,573
Speaker 5: questions and answers to such an important issue for all

986
01:03:21,573 --> 01:03:25,773
Speaker 5: of mankind. It confirmed a lot of the idiotic foibles

987
01:03:25,853 --> 01:03:30,613
Speaker 5: showered onto a submissive global audience of politicians who digest

988
01:03:30,693 --> 01:03:34,013
Speaker 5: the science offered to them that seems to be so

989
01:03:34,173 --> 01:03:39,213
Speaker 5: willingly accepted without question, the distinct odor of money and

990
01:03:39,333 --> 01:03:43,733
Speaker 5: corruption permeates the corridors of power. There was one paragraph

991
01:03:43,813 --> 01:03:48,013
Speaker 5: in the last chapter that caught my attention quote it's

992
01:03:48,373 --> 01:03:51,893
Speaker 5: also worth mentioning that China ducked out of the Paris

993
01:03:51,893 --> 01:03:55,733
Speaker 5: Accord by claiming that they were a developing country and

994
01:03:55,813 --> 01:03:58,693
Speaker 5: were going to make use of that exception, but still

995
01:03:58,733 --> 01:04:02,133
Speaker 5: produce as much omissions as their original plan to twenty sixty.

996
01:04:03,253 --> 01:04:06,613
Speaker 5: I raise a thought, says Gordon, that crossed my mind

997
01:04:06,613 --> 01:04:10,053
Speaker 5: about New Zealand being a relatively young and developing country.

998
01:04:10,413 --> 01:04:13,333
Speaker 5: Wouldn't that be a perfect point for farmers and haughty

999
01:04:13,413 --> 01:04:18,533
Speaker 5: culturalists to lobby our politicians for exemption from this overwhelmingly

1000
01:04:18,693 --> 01:04:22,653
Speaker 5: dangerous and costly piece of global agreement. Just to thought latent,

1001
01:04:22,733 --> 01:04:25,573
Speaker 5: and maybe you have already fielded comments relating to this

1002
01:04:26,293 --> 01:04:27,853
Speaker 5: best regards Gordon.

1003
01:04:28,373 --> 01:04:30,933
Speaker 2: Got to say. I agree with what Gordon said about

1004
01:04:31,013 --> 01:04:35,533
Speaker 2: China dipping out because it's a developing country. Is the

1005
01:04:35,653 --> 01:04:39,413
Speaker 2: stupidity of it. This was granted to them. The status

1006
01:04:39,493 --> 01:04:42,653
Speaker 2: was granted to them and hasn't had been removed. It's

1007
01:04:42,733 --> 01:04:47,333
Speaker 2: just idiotic, and I think we'd be almost It would

1008
01:04:47,373 --> 01:04:50,613
Speaker 2: be almost fair enough to say that we are more

1009
01:04:50,613 --> 01:04:53,613
Speaker 2: a developing country than China is. In fact, I'll go

1010
01:04:53,693 --> 01:04:56,813
Speaker 2: that far and say we are more developing than China,

1011
01:04:57,293 --> 01:05:00,253
Speaker 2: as in they're ahead of us. I mean, show me

1012
01:05:00,333 --> 01:05:04,013
Speaker 2: where our electric car factory is go on. So that

1013
01:05:04,133 --> 01:05:08,093
Speaker 2: was well said, I continue, writes Chris, to be annoyed

1014
01:05:08,133 --> 01:05:12,653
Speaker 2: and disturbed at the continued use of the term vaccine.

1015
01:05:12,693 --> 01:05:15,973
Speaker 2: Oh here we are echoing his thoughts, so let me

1016
01:05:16,013 --> 01:05:18,773
Speaker 2: start again. I continue to be annoyed and disturbed at

1017
01:05:18,813 --> 01:05:21,773
Speaker 2: the continued use of the term vaccine for the COVID

1018
01:05:21,773 --> 01:05:27,413
Speaker 2: shot to bastardize a biblical phrase. It never was, isn't now,

1019
01:05:27,933 --> 01:05:31,413
Speaker 2: and never shall be a vaccine in what we doctors

1020
01:05:32,093 --> 01:05:36,813
Speaker 2: know as a vaccine. A traditional vaccine confers long lasting

1021
01:05:36,813 --> 01:05:40,933
Speaker 2: immunity against the disease and prevents disease transmission. This thing

1022
01:05:41,133 --> 01:05:44,893
Speaker 2: was at best a temporary immune booster, which brings me

1023
01:05:44,973 --> 01:05:47,133
Speaker 2: to the thought I wish to raise with you the

1024
01:05:47,133 --> 01:05:51,333
Speaker 2: COVID shot. Somebody else, I think mentioned that somewhere to me,

1025
01:05:51,413 --> 01:05:54,093
Speaker 2: that you should be calling it a shot, and I

1026
01:05:54,093 --> 01:05:57,213
Speaker 2: agree with that. But every time I come to the

1027
01:05:57,253 --> 01:05:59,013
Speaker 2: word vaccine in a letter or something. I can't think

1028
01:05:59,013 --> 01:06:00,173
Speaker 2: of the word I want to replace it with, so

1029
01:06:00,253 --> 01:06:02,613
Speaker 2: I go with it, or something along those lines. The

1030
01:06:02,653 --> 01:06:06,653
Speaker 2: COVID shot was mandated, which was dumb as it didn't

1031
01:06:06,693 --> 01:06:10,013
Speaker 2: really help. Suppose that at times it was the best

1032
01:06:10,053 --> 01:06:13,533
Speaker 2: we had unless we talk the Swedish model. You have

1033
01:06:13,613 --> 01:06:17,413
Speaker 2: consistently regaled against the mandates. But where do you sit

1034
01:06:18,333 --> 01:06:23,293
Speaker 2: when you pit this against a proper vaccine such as polio,

1035
01:06:23,453 --> 01:06:29,373
Speaker 2: smallpox no longer needed as eradicated by vaccination, measles and tetanus.

1036
01:06:30,373 --> 01:06:34,013
Speaker 2: These vaccines do work and save lives, despite what some say,

1037
01:06:34,253 --> 01:06:37,493
Speaker 2: especially with regard to measles, and in my view, should

1038
01:06:37,533 --> 01:06:40,453
Speaker 2: be mandated. If you ever get a chance to talk

1039
01:06:40,493 --> 01:06:45,253
Speaker 2: to someone who has had polio and suffered as a consequence,

1040
01:06:45,813 --> 01:06:49,213
Speaker 2: they feel it is criminal not to mandate a polio shot.

1041
01:06:49,933 --> 01:06:52,413
Speaker 2: You are probably just old enough to recall the polio

1042
01:06:52,533 --> 01:06:57,213
Speaker 2: epidemic and the harm it caused. Not mandating these vaccinations

1043
01:06:57,253 --> 01:07:00,093
Speaker 2: will lead to a drop in herd immunity and the

1044
01:07:00,133 --> 01:07:03,813
Speaker 2: population will suffer not only deaths, but significant illness with

1045
01:07:03,853 --> 01:07:09,093
Speaker 2: long lasting effects. As an aside, epidemiologists have probably saved

1046
01:07:09,133 --> 01:07:13,933
Speaker 2: more lives than anyone think clean water, sewage, mass vaccination.

1047
01:07:14,733 --> 01:07:18,013
Speaker 2: Michael Baker is still a knob though I know where

1048
01:07:18,013 --> 01:07:21,573
Speaker 2: I stand, but this does pose an interesting philosophical tension.

1049
01:07:22,053 --> 01:07:26,213
Speaker 2: This is where free will i e. Anti vaxers, especially

1050
01:07:26,333 --> 01:07:29,653
Speaker 2: when it means parents placing their free will views on

1051
01:07:29,693 --> 01:07:35,653
Speaker 2: their children, butts heads against population medicine. Have a great week,

1052
01:07:36,333 --> 01:07:42,213
Speaker 2: Chris with a surname surgeon, So I'm very interested in

1053
01:07:42,253 --> 01:07:44,093
Speaker 2: your attitude. Anytime you want to drop me a line

1054
01:07:44,133 --> 01:07:48,373
Speaker 2: with an opinion, do so because we can debate it. Layton.

1055
01:07:48,453 --> 01:07:52,613
Speaker 5: Leon says, thank you again for this week's podcast featuring

1056
01:07:52,653 --> 01:07:55,533
Speaker 5: doctor Paul Marrek. It confirms to me again that the

1057
01:07:55,573 --> 01:08:00,213
Speaker 5: world's medical profession is dominated by the pharmaceutical sector. As

1058
01:08:00,213 --> 01:08:03,573
Speaker 5: a diabetic I was very impressed by dtor Merrick's statement

1059
01:08:03,693 --> 01:08:07,333
Speaker 5: that he cured his own diabetes with vitamin C. Would

1060
01:08:07,373 --> 01:08:09,933
Speaker 5: it be possible to find out how it was administered

1061
01:08:09,973 --> 01:08:13,053
Speaker 5: into him as I and my diabetic friends would love

1062
01:08:13,093 --> 01:08:15,373
Speaker 5: to give it a go. Thank you, and may God

1063
01:08:15,453 --> 01:08:18,693
Speaker 5: continue to bless your ministry. This is from Leon, and

1064
01:08:18,733 --> 01:08:22,373
Speaker 5: he says, ps. Mary and I met you and Carolyn

1065
01:08:22,533 --> 01:08:25,813
Speaker 5: at a mutual friends party when you kindly signed two

1066
01:08:25,853 --> 01:08:26,973
Speaker 5: of your books for us.

1067
01:08:27,253 --> 01:08:27,613
Speaker 3: Leon.

1068
01:08:27,773 --> 01:08:31,493
Speaker 5: I remember you and Mary well, having met you on

1069
01:08:31,533 --> 01:08:34,733
Speaker 5: several occasions, and I hope you're both well.

1070
01:08:34,773 --> 01:08:36,973
Speaker 2: It's lovely to hear from you, Yes, and it was

1071
01:08:36,973 --> 01:08:39,853
Speaker 2: a pleasure to sign your book and thank you. Let's

1072
01:08:39,853 --> 01:08:44,253
Speaker 2: be blunt most by far of the correspondence this week.

1073
01:08:44,733 --> 01:08:49,613
Speaker 2: It's been about the interview with Paul Merrick, and I

1074
01:08:49,653 --> 01:08:53,613
Speaker 2: get why. There's one letter here though, that goes in

1075
01:08:53,653 --> 01:08:56,453
Speaker 2: a different direction. Here we are, let me read this one.

1076
01:08:57,813 --> 01:09:00,533
Speaker 2: My immediate reaction when I first listened to your podcast

1077
01:09:00,613 --> 01:09:04,253
Speaker 2: with doctor Paul Merrick was one of nonchalance, as I

1078
01:09:04,333 --> 01:09:07,733
Speaker 2: wondered why we're still talking about COVID in twenty twenty four,

1079
01:09:08,333 --> 01:09:10,933
Speaker 2: And then I immediately caught myself pauling prey to the

1080
01:09:10,973 --> 01:09:15,973
Speaker 2: public short memory, and corrected myself. We must never forget

1081
01:09:16,053 --> 01:09:19,653
Speaker 2: how quickly we surrendered our rights to the damned, corrupt,

1082
01:09:19,853 --> 01:09:23,413
Speaker 2: unscrupulous elites who are always waiting to capitalize on the

1083
01:09:23,453 --> 01:09:28,653
Speaker 2: next crisis and usurp absolute power. I was chilled when

1084
01:09:28,693 --> 01:09:32,093
Speaker 2: doctor Paul Merrick said that the healthcare system is not

1085
01:09:32,173 --> 01:09:36,013
Speaker 2: a healthcare system. It's a disease system that's designed to

1086
01:09:36,093 --> 01:09:38,573
Speaker 2: keep you as sick or as long as you can

1087
01:09:39,773 --> 01:09:42,253
Speaker 2: for them to make as much money as they can

1088
01:09:42,573 --> 01:09:45,733
Speaker 2: can I just insert here he was talking specifically, of course,

1089
01:09:45,773 --> 01:09:50,093
Speaker 2: about the US system. I don't I don't think we're

1090
01:09:50,133 --> 01:09:55,533
Speaker 2: as bad here. Having had recent experiences with the local system,

1091
01:09:55,653 --> 01:09:58,933
Speaker 2: I'm pretty obligated to saying that they do. They do

1092
01:09:59,053 --> 01:10:03,253
Speaker 2: their best, even if they make the wrong decisions at times,

1093
01:10:03,573 --> 01:10:07,013
Speaker 2: which I also experienced. He goes on. He goes on,

1094
01:10:07,173 --> 01:10:09,253
Speaker 2: have you heard of New Zealand to Speaking Out with

1095
01:10:09,373 --> 01:10:14,813
Speaker 2: Science n z DSS is made up of courageous and

1096
01:10:14,973 --> 01:10:19,133
Speaker 2: principal doctors, dentists, pharmacists and vets who were formed around

1097
01:10:19,213 --> 01:10:22,533
Speaker 2: an open letter to the New Zealand government that expressed

1098
01:10:22,613 --> 01:10:25,893
Speaker 2: their concerns about the phiser COVID nineteen injection, as well

1099
01:10:25,933 --> 01:10:29,853
Speaker 2: as the implication from New Zealand regulatory bodies that branded

1100
01:10:29,853 --> 01:10:34,253
Speaker 2: medical practitioners incompetent if they provided fully informed consent about

1101
01:10:34,253 --> 01:10:38,173
Speaker 2: the injection. They state that quote, the authorities have only

1102
01:10:38,253 --> 01:10:41,493
Speaker 2: one narrative, be scared, get the JAB and vilify anyone

1103
01:10:41,493 --> 01:10:45,173
Speaker 2: who does not. We may be vilified by our colleagues,

1104
01:10:45,693 --> 01:10:50,253
Speaker 2: those we once respected, inflicting the greatest wounds the authorities

1105
01:10:50,573 --> 01:10:53,653
Speaker 2: they are supposed to service remember and those in the

1106
01:10:53,653 --> 01:10:57,733
Speaker 2: public that are fearful and asleep. But we have looked

1107
01:10:57,773 --> 01:11:00,853
Speaker 2: into our hearts and we cannot stand by while atrocities

1108
01:11:00,853 --> 01:11:03,693
Speaker 2: are being committed. We no longer trust that the regulators,

1109
01:11:03,733 --> 01:11:07,813
Speaker 2: including Bedsafe, the Medical Council, the Dental Council, of Pharmaceutical Council,

1110
01:11:08,373 --> 01:11:11,413
Speaker 2: and specialist colleges such as the Royal New Zealand College

1111
01:11:11,453 --> 01:11:14,893
Speaker 2: of General Practitioners are guided by the best interests of

1112
01:11:14,893 --> 01:11:19,613
Speaker 2: New Zealanders. We are concerned that these organizations have become

1113
01:11:19,773 --> 01:11:24,053
Speaker 2: unduly influenced by politics rather than sticking to health principles.

1114
01:11:24,333 --> 01:11:28,693
Speaker 2: Close quote, and then the author concludes, we the public

1115
01:11:28,853 --> 01:11:32,493
Speaker 2: should fully support brave medical practitioners like doctor Paul Merrick

1116
01:11:32,933 --> 01:11:36,853
Speaker 2: and the New Zealand doctors speaking out with science lest

1117
01:11:36,893 --> 01:11:40,733
Speaker 2: we forget. Thanks for helping us remember later and Carolyn

1118
01:11:41,253 --> 01:11:46,053
Speaker 2: as just a very very quick word. I suffered an

1119
01:11:46,093 --> 01:11:49,413
Speaker 2: oversight last week. I did not mention that doctor Merrick

1120
01:11:49,613 --> 01:11:54,853
Speaker 2: was with us on the podcast courtesy of NZD SOS

1121
01:11:54,973 --> 01:11:58,133
Speaker 2: New Zealand Doctors speaking Out with Science. I didn't mention them.

1122
01:11:58,133 --> 01:12:00,373
Speaker 2: That was my discredit.

1123
01:12:01,573 --> 01:12:05,853
Speaker 5: Leighton Alistair says, thanks Layton for another great podcast. Have

1124
01:12:05,973 --> 01:12:08,853
Speaker 5: followed Dr Merrick since the start of this COVID scam,

1125
01:12:08,853 --> 01:12:11,853
Speaker 5: and was privileged to hear him in person last Saturday

1126
01:12:11,973 --> 01:12:16,173
Speaker 5: in christ Church along with Professor Angerstell Gleish, a man

1127
01:12:16,213 --> 01:12:20,213
Speaker 5: of similar credentials and reputation in the cancer field. They

1128
01:12:20,213 --> 01:12:23,173
Speaker 5: were riveting to listen to and have been prepared to

1129
01:12:23,253 --> 01:12:26,973
Speaker 5: stand against the big farmer globalist attack on our democracy

1130
01:12:27,053 --> 01:12:31,573
Speaker 5: and freedoms. The other speakers at the conference were exceptional. Also,

1131
01:12:32,333 --> 01:12:33,333
Speaker 5: that's from Alistair.

1132
01:12:33,973 --> 01:12:37,213
Speaker 2: Thank you Alistair, appreciate it, missus producer. I'm looking at

1133
01:12:37,253 --> 01:12:40,773
Speaker 2: the clock and we've sort of everything has its limit.

1134
01:12:41,853 --> 01:12:45,693
Speaker 2: I think I might keep the rest. Maybe next week

1135
01:12:46,373 --> 01:12:48,253
Speaker 2: or the next couple of weeks, or a slow week,

1136
01:12:48,333 --> 01:12:51,533
Speaker 2: which happens occasionally. But let me say again this week

1137
01:12:51,813 --> 01:12:55,293
Speaker 2: the number of emails was and the quality of them

1138
01:12:55,493 --> 01:12:57,693
Speaker 2: was extremely good. I want to slip in one more.

1139
01:12:57,733 --> 01:13:01,733
Speaker 2: Though it was a matter of interest from Paul. He says,

1140
01:13:01,813 --> 01:13:04,213
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but I'm pretty convinced that I could

1141
01:13:04,253 --> 01:13:08,693
Speaker 2: hear God speaking through your conversation with doctor Paul merrickferences

1142
01:13:08,813 --> 01:13:12,093
Speaker 2: to vitamin C brought back memories of the time my

1143
01:13:12,253 --> 01:13:15,293
Speaker 2: father was afflicted with a case of chicken pox. He

1144
01:13:15,373 --> 01:13:19,213
Speaker 2: caught from me. His reaction to the disease was severe,

1145
01:13:19,533 --> 01:13:22,453
Speaker 2: and the doctors overseeing his care had indicated to my

1146
01:13:22,533 --> 01:13:25,293
Speaker 2: mother that things were looking a bit grim as they

1147
01:13:25,373 --> 01:13:29,173
Speaker 2: thought the pox may have affected his brain, if memory

1148
01:13:29,173 --> 01:13:33,573
Speaker 2: serves me correctly, My family advice and the local health

1149
01:13:33,613 --> 01:13:36,813
Speaker 2: store suggested vitamin C is a supplement to the good

1150
01:13:36,853 --> 01:13:40,693
Speaker 2: medical care he was receiving. By all accounts, the supplementary

1151
01:13:40,773 --> 01:13:43,653
Speaker 2: vitamin C that my mother provided Dad at his hospital

1152
01:13:43,693 --> 01:13:49,293
Speaker 2: bedside had startlingly positive results. It all was well, that

1153
01:13:49,533 --> 01:13:52,573
Speaker 2: ended well. Vitamin C has been part of my health

1154
01:13:52,573 --> 01:13:55,773
Speaker 2: outlook ever since. Doctor Paul Merrick is doing God's work

1155
01:13:55,853 --> 01:13:59,293
Speaker 2: and must be supported at all costs. He seeks truth

1156
01:13:59,493 --> 01:14:02,333
Speaker 2: and will in time find it, and he has already

1157
01:14:02,373 --> 01:14:05,293
Speaker 2: pointed at bucket loads of it. Thank you Layton and

1158
01:14:05,373 --> 01:14:08,653
Speaker 2: missus producers for the great podcast PS. The new part

1159
01:14:08,733 --> 01:14:12,493
Speaker 2: of the podcast providing source material is a winner. Paul,

1160
01:14:12,533 --> 01:14:15,653
Speaker 2: Thank you. I think you're the only person who has

1161
01:14:15,693 --> 01:14:19,293
Speaker 2: commented on that, but we'll see shortly. This is producer.

1162
01:14:19,293 --> 01:14:19,773
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1163
01:14:19,813 --> 01:14:20,533
Speaker 5: Thank you Layton.

1164
01:14:20,733 --> 01:14:22,413
Speaker 2: I believe you've got a very busy day, but again

1165
01:14:22,573 --> 01:14:24,533
Speaker 2: very busy day, which is why we're doing it so early.

1166
01:14:24,613 --> 01:14:26,133
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, not that anyone would know.

1167
01:14:37,013 --> 01:14:37,173
Speaker 3: Now.

1168
01:14:37,253 --> 01:14:40,533
Speaker 2: I began this last week based on the fact that

1169
01:14:41,133 --> 01:14:43,693
Speaker 2: there is so much going on it simply cannot be

1170
01:14:43,773 --> 01:14:46,973
Speaker 2: covered in its entirety. And I've been asked so many

1171
01:14:47,053 --> 01:14:51,173
Speaker 2: times recently for books and information sources. I thought this

1172
01:14:51,333 --> 01:14:56,693
Speaker 2: was an appropriate contribution to the podcast in that I

1173
01:14:56,733 --> 01:14:59,613
Speaker 2: will refer each week to some articles that I think

1174
01:15:00,213 --> 01:15:02,333
Speaker 2: well may interest you, and you can decide for yourself

1175
01:15:02,613 --> 01:15:05,093
Speaker 2: and give you the best direction to find them that

1176
01:15:05,133 --> 01:15:09,573
Speaker 2: I can. So let's start with and the Kamala Harris

1177
01:15:09,973 --> 01:15:14,653
Speaker 2: is a third world hellhole, crime, chaos, devastation of an

1178
01:15:14,813 --> 01:15:17,973
Speaker 2: order of magnitude that will never recover unless Donald Trump

1179
01:15:18,053 --> 01:15:23,573
Speaker 2: becomes president again. Authored by paul Ingrassia I N G

1180
01:15:24,093 --> 01:15:28,853
Speaker 2: R A S I A. Paul Ingrassia spelled the way

1181
01:15:28,893 --> 01:15:31,373
Speaker 2: that it sounds. There is one hope to get us

1182
01:15:31,413 --> 01:15:34,853
Speaker 2: out of this rut, and that hope is called Donald Trump. Now,

1183
01:15:34,893 --> 01:15:36,693
Speaker 2: you may or may not agree. You may change your

1184
01:15:36,693 --> 01:15:39,733
Speaker 2: mind after reading it, but you'll find it at paul

1185
01:15:40,093 --> 01:15:46,333
Speaker 2: Ingrassia dot substack dot com. Number two What city planners

1186
01:15:46,373 --> 01:15:49,133
Speaker 2: are really planning and how to challenge it? Now, this

1187
01:15:49,373 --> 01:15:53,333
Speaker 2: is written from an American perspective, but it has global

1188
01:15:54,013 --> 01:15:59,853
Speaker 2: as well. You'll find it, written by Selwyn Duke in

1189
01:16:00,013 --> 01:16:05,133
Speaker 2: The New American dot Com The New American dot Com

1190
01:16:05,253 --> 01:16:08,493
Speaker 2: first paragraph. In nearly every community of the nation, the

1191
01:16:08,533 --> 01:16:13,253
Speaker 2: policy called sustainable is the catch all term for local

1192
01:16:13,293 --> 01:16:17,333
Speaker 2: planning programs, from water and energy controls to building codes

1193
01:16:17,333 --> 01:16:21,373
Speaker 2: and traffic planning. The term sustainable was first used in

1194
01:16:21,453 --> 01:16:26,653
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty seven report called Our Common Future, issued

1195
01:16:26,693 --> 01:16:30,373
Speaker 2: by the United Nations Commission on Environment and Development. The

1196
01:16:31,013 --> 01:16:34,573
Speaker 2: term appeared in full force in nineteen ninety two in

1197
01:16:34,613 --> 01:16:39,613
Speaker 2: a United Nations initiative called You Ready Agenda twenty one.

1198
01:16:40,093 --> 01:16:42,613
Speaker 2: Now I've got your interest, as I say. That is

1199
01:16:42,973 --> 01:16:46,293
Speaker 2: from the New American dot Com, Selwyn Duke, the author.

1200
01:16:47,493 --> 01:16:51,493
Speaker 2: How about the Hamas Broadcasting Corporation Melanie Phillips. I know

1201
01:16:51,613 --> 01:16:56,253
Speaker 2: that a number of people read her columns and they're

1202
01:16:56,293 --> 01:16:59,333
Speaker 2: often very worthy. We interviewed her once. She was also

1203
01:16:59,333 --> 01:17:02,133
Speaker 2: in Jerusalem at the time. It was a terrible connection.

1204
01:17:02,653 --> 01:17:05,413
Speaker 2: There was nothing I could do about it, So the

1205
01:17:05,453 --> 01:17:11,373
Speaker 2: Hamas Broadcasting Corporation Melanie Phillips dot substack dot com. Another

1206
01:17:11,453 --> 01:17:16,293
Speaker 2: report lays out the BBC's malevolence toward Israel. Will it

1207
01:17:16,573 --> 01:17:21,093
Speaker 2: ever listen, then this, The UN just adopted the Packed

1208
01:17:21,333 --> 01:17:25,093
Speaker 2: for the Future, which lays the foundation for a new

1209
01:17:25,173 --> 01:17:28,853
Speaker 2: global order. Now this has already had mentioned here or there,

1210
01:17:29,493 --> 01:17:33,693
Speaker 2: but it's worthy of chasing down. While everyone was distracted,

1211
01:17:33,733 --> 01:17:36,213
Speaker 2: the global elite got exactly what they wanted. The un

1212
01:17:36,253 --> 01:17:39,293
Speaker 2: adopted the Packed for the Future on September twenty second,

1213
01:17:39,773 --> 01:17:43,213
Speaker 2: and the mainstream media in the Western world almost entirely

1214
01:17:43,253 --> 01:17:46,773
Speaker 2: ignored what was happening. Instead, the headlines urged us to

1215
01:17:46,813 --> 01:17:50,453
Speaker 2: just keep focusing on Commala Harrison Donald Trump. Sadly, the

1216
01:17:50,533 --> 01:17:53,933
Speaker 2: vast majority of the population has never heard about the

1217
01:17:54,333 --> 01:17:57,813
Speaker 2: Pact for the Future, and so there was very little

1218
01:17:57,813 --> 01:18:01,053
Speaker 2: public debate about whether or not we should be adopting

1219
01:18:01,173 --> 01:18:05,933
Speaker 2: a document which lays the foundation for a new global order.

1220
01:18:06,093 --> 01:18:09,933
Speaker 2: They've been added for years this lot, and it looks

1221
01:18:10,013 --> 01:18:16,213
Speaker 2: like they might be making progress. Zero hedge dot com

1222
01:18:16,293 --> 01:18:20,013
Speaker 2: is where it came from. The UN just adopted the

1223
01:18:20,053 --> 01:18:23,453
Speaker 2: Pact for the Future, which lays the foundation for a

1224
01:18:23,493 --> 01:18:27,693
Speaker 2: new global order. And so to the article by Jeffrey

1225
01:18:27,733 --> 01:18:30,133
Speaker 2: Tucker that I mentioned at the top of the podcast,

1226
01:18:30,853 --> 01:18:34,373
Speaker 2: and there is a reason why I wanted to include it.

1227
01:18:34,373 --> 01:18:39,493
Speaker 2: It caught my attension also just this morning. And the

1228
01:18:39,533 --> 01:18:42,573
Speaker 2: reason is this. There is a picture of me in

1229
01:18:42,693 --> 01:18:46,453
Speaker 2: the book beyond the microphone, picture of me sitting with

1230
01:18:46,893 --> 01:18:51,173
Speaker 2: two things. One is I was cradling between my knees

1231
01:18:51,573 --> 01:18:55,053
Speaker 2: a cello, because I was learning cello at the time.

1232
01:18:55,173 --> 01:18:59,093
Speaker 2: This was when I was about thirteen maybe fourteen, and

1233
01:18:59,813 --> 01:19:02,493
Speaker 2: played in the school orchestra, and I couldn't wait to

1234
01:19:02,493 --> 01:19:05,693
Speaker 2: get rid of it, and the piano came second, much

1235
01:19:05,693 --> 01:19:07,933
Speaker 2: to my regret. The other thing in the photo is

1236
01:19:08,413 --> 01:19:11,373
Speaker 2: the haircut. At the time was when my father got

1237
01:19:11,413 --> 01:19:13,973
Speaker 2: agitated about beyond belief until one day took me down

1238
01:19:14,013 --> 01:19:15,853
Speaker 2: of the barbers and said cut it. But it all

1239
01:19:15,853 --> 01:19:19,293
Speaker 2: turned out well in the end, so Jeffrey Tucker writing,

1240
01:19:19,853 --> 01:19:24,333
Speaker 2: Find Your Oasis. The Metro North train was packed as

1241
01:19:24,413 --> 01:19:27,653
Speaker 2: it pulled into Grand Central Station, the iconic landmark that

1242
01:19:27,693 --> 01:19:30,853
Speaker 2: opens New York City to commuters and travelers. Leaving the

1243
01:19:30,893 --> 01:19:35,053
Speaker 2: train for the platform plunges you into a strange world

1244
01:19:35,173 --> 01:19:38,893
Speaker 2: of seeming chaos, of people on the move to somewhere.

1245
01:19:39,533 --> 01:19:42,653
Speaker 2: The United Nations was meeting there this week, with diplomats

1246
01:19:42,653 --> 01:19:45,573
Speaker 2: from all nations crowding the high end hotels at one

1247
01:19:45,573 --> 01:19:51,133
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a night minimum Every major institutional player in banking, finance,

1248
01:19:52,173 --> 01:19:55,973
Speaker 2: and global corporate power was there too, because no one

1249
01:19:56,013 --> 01:19:58,213
Speaker 2: who is anyone wants to miss the chance to be

1250
01:19:58,453 --> 01:20:01,853
Speaker 2: near the action. I was there for a humble dinner

1251
01:20:01,893 --> 01:20:04,573
Speaker 2: with a friend, and the rest was a distraction, something

1252
01:20:04,613 --> 01:20:08,533
Speaker 2: to endure. The sights and sounds were already cacophonous as

1253
01:20:08,533 --> 01:20:10,813
Speaker 2: I climbed the stairs to the main level of the station.

1254
01:20:11,933 --> 01:20:15,973
Speaker 2: One sound was different. However. It was a cello, and

1255
01:20:16,053 --> 01:20:17,973
Speaker 2: I thought I could make out the sounds of the

1256
01:20:18,013 --> 01:20:21,853
Speaker 2: suites of J. S. Bark. As I finally rounded the corner,

1257
01:20:21,933 --> 01:20:25,213
Speaker 2: it gradually emerged that this was not a recording, but

1258
01:20:25,293 --> 01:20:28,933
Speaker 2: a single cellist in a white tie, playing the full

1259
01:20:29,013 --> 01:20:32,893
Speaker 2: cello suites without music. His talent was stunning, and it

1260
01:20:32,973 --> 01:20:35,053
Speaker 2: is such a rare treat to sit close by and

1261
01:20:35,093 --> 01:20:37,893
Speaker 2: watch it on display, close enough to see the resin

1262
01:20:38,213 --> 01:20:42,893
Speaker 2: from the bow float around the vibrating strings. The contrast

1263
01:20:42,973 --> 01:20:47,133
Speaker 2: between the ethereal virtuosity of the cellist and the bustling

1264
01:20:47,253 --> 01:20:51,573
Speaker 2: madness of the train station was psychologically and emotionally overwhelming.

1265
01:20:52,493 --> 01:20:55,333
Speaker 2: Though I was anxious to get to the appointed restaurant

1266
01:20:55,373 --> 01:20:58,573
Speaker 2: ten blocks away, I simply could not pass up the

1267
01:20:58,653 --> 01:21:03,093
Speaker 2: chance to listen. There I stood in people's way for

1268
01:21:03,173 --> 01:21:06,253
Speaker 2: the meta part of twenty minutes, transported by that middle

1269
01:21:06,333 --> 01:21:10,773
Speaker 2: voice between time and eternity. Bach did not write these

1270
01:21:10,773 --> 01:21:14,893
Speaker 2: pieces for public performance. They were a private study. They

1271
01:21:14,933 --> 01:21:18,573
Speaker 2: contain a variety of moods and deploy extremely difficult techniques.

1272
01:21:19,093 --> 01:21:22,413
Speaker 2: The most flausible theory is that the composer wrote them

1273
01:21:22,853 --> 01:21:26,493
Speaker 2: studies and exercises for his son to practice. So far

1274
01:21:26,573 --> 01:21:29,413
Speaker 2: as we knew, they were never heard outside his home

1275
01:21:29,813 --> 01:21:33,093
Speaker 2: in his lifetime. They were discovered one hundred years later

1276
01:21:33,213 --> 01:21:36,533
Speaker 2: during the Victorian period, where tastes were not compatible with

1277
01:21:36,573 --> 01:21:41,573
Speaker 2: a single instrument playing so elaborately, too lonely, too introspective,

1278
01:21:41,693 --> 01:21:45,613
Speaker 2: too ominous. So when they were first heard it was

1279
01:21:45,693 --> 01:21:49,533
Speaker 2: with an invented piano accompaniment. It wasn't until the turn

1280
01:21:49,573 --> 01:21:54,213
Speaker 2: of the century when a Spanish cellis Publo Casals rediscovered

1281
01:21:54,213 --> 01:21:57,093
Speaker 2: them in a bookstore at the age of thirteen and

1282
01:21:57,213 --> 01:22:00,653
Speaker 2: worked them up into a public performance. Part of the

1283
01:22:00,693 --> 01:22:03,173
Speaker 2: mystery of these pieces is how they play with the

1284
01:22:03,213 --> 01:22:08,253
Speaker 2: audible imagination of the listener. They're constructed nilly as quartets,

1285
01:22:08,733 --> 01:22:11,733
Speaker 2: with the other three parts left to the imagination, while

1286
01:22:11,733 --> 01:22:16,453
Speaker 2: the notes heard serve as cues, signs, and symbols to

1287
01:22:16,533 --> 01:22:21,333
Speaker 2: the formation of an inaudible voice out there somewhere. It

1288
01:22:21,413 --> 01:22:24,253
Speaker 2: seems like magic that anyone could write such things or

1289
01:22:24,293 --> 01:22:27,853
Speaker 2: perform them at all. If you're only listening to the recording,

1290
01:22:28,013 --> 01:22:30,133
Speaker 2: it helps to remind yourself that there is only one

1291
01:22:30,173 --> 01:22:35,133
Speaker 2: person playing, because otherwise it seems not quite believable. But

1292
01:22:35,253 --> 01:22:38,493
Speaker 2: watching a live performance makes one a believer. This is

1293
01:22:38,533 --> 01:22:42,573
Speaker 2: why these pieces just stop you in your tracks, transport

1294
01:22:42,613 --> 01:22:45,853
Speaker 2: you to a different place, somewhere connected to but set

1295
01:22:45,893 --> 01:22:49,253
Speaker 2: apart from the world around us. The music performed right

1296
01:22:49,293 --> 01:22:51,933
Speaker 2: in front of our eyes takes us to this place

1297
01:22:52,013 --> 01:22:55,453
Speaker 2: and feeds our soul. Without such music, we might forget

1298
01:22:55,453 --> 01:22:58,813
Speaker 2: there is a soul, that we are purely biological creatures

1299
01:22:58,853 --> 01:23:04,053
Speaker 2: with physical senses. Bark Cello suites deploy the senses in

1300
01:23:04,213 --> 01:23:07,893
Speaker 2: order to compel the rediscovery of our deepest and highest

1301
01:23:08,053 --> 01:23:12,013
Speaker 2: spiritual longings, elevating the mind and heart to experience a

1302
01:23:12,053 --> 01:23:17,293
Speaker 2: place without the passage of time. In today's world of violence, despair,

1303
01:23:17,413 --> 01:23:21,813
Speaker 2: and non stop disorientation, hearing them is startling in the

1304
01:23:21,853 --> 01:23:25,053
Speaker 2: best possible way. These twenty minutes for me conjured up

1305
01:23:25,053 --> 01:23:28,053
Speaker 2: an image of an oasis in the desert, a source

1306
01:23:28,093 --> 01:23:31,293
Speaker 2: of growth and life in the midst of nothingness. There

1307
01:23:31,333 --> 01:23:34,773
Speaker 2: I rested, however, briefly on my way back to the cacophony,

1308
01:23:35,093 --> 01:23:38,253
Speaker 2: but carrying the music in my mind and heart. Years ago,

1309
01:23:38,373 --> 01:23:41,293
Speaker 2: as a long time trained musician with a focus on

1310
01:23:41,413 --> 01:23:45,133
Speaker 2: brass instruments, I took up singing. I flattered myself in

1311
01:23:45,213 --> 01:23:48,813
Speaker 2: the mastering a huge range, and performed both as a

1312
01:23:48,853 --> 01:23:54,893
Speaker 2: conductor and singer, and arranged a repertoire from Palestrina, Pergolisi

1313
01:23:55,293 --> 01:23:59,373
Speaker 2: and Monteverdi to Viveldi, Handle and Mozart. One day, I

1314
01:23:59,413 --> 01:24:01,933
Speaker 2: picked up the musical score to one of Mark's hundreds

1315
01:24:01,933 --> 01:24:05,693
Speaker 2: of cantatas. I tried to sing a single aria i'd heard.

1316
01:24:06,053 --> 01:24:09,053
Speaker 2: I simply could not. It was impossible for me. I

1317
01:24:09,133 --> 01:24:12,173
Speaker 2: realized at that moment that I was not a real singer,

1318
01:24:12,693 --> 01:24:16,293
Speaker 2: at least not one for which this composer wrote. Bach

1319
01:24:17,013 --> 01:24:21,533
Speaker 2: is truly next level. Bark did not live an easy life.

1320
01:24:21,573 --> 01:24:24,893
Speaker 2: He had twenty children over two marriages and supported them

1321
01:24:24,933 --> 01:24:28,733
Speaker 2: all with playing, conducting and compositions. He played for a

1322
01:24:28,813 --> 01:24:31,893
Speaker 2: Lutheran parish in a humble role with a meager salary,

1323
01:24:32,373 --> 01:24:36,573
Speaker 2: and faced down unreletting pressure from the rector to write

1324
01:24:36,613 --> 01:24:41,253
Speaker 2: new works for every Sunday service while preserving traditional hymnody.

1325
01:24:42,653 --> 01:24:45,493
Speaker 2: He often applied for new jobs, but kept being turned down.

1326
01:24:46,373 --> 01:24:49,413
Speaker 2: He often complained about the poor quality of his musicians,

1327
01:24:49,773 --> 01:24:53,573
Speaker 2: a point I cannot even fathom, since truly only specialists

1328
01:24:53,573 --> 01:24:57,173
Speaker 2: today can perform his harder works. Bark signed all of

1329
01:24:57,213 --> 01:25:00,173
Speaker 2: his works, whether religious or secular, to the glory of God.

1330
01:25:00,693 --> 01:25:03,853
Speaker 2: It was clearly his conviction that all of his skills

1331
01:25:03,893 --> 01:25:07,213
Speaker 2: were from God and owed back to God, and the

1332
01:25:07,253 --> 01:25:10,773
Speaker 2: object of his works were to point to ideals outside

1333
01:25:10,773 --> 01:25:14,213
Speaker 2: the rough and tumble of the stream of life. However,

1334
01:25:14,253 --> 01:25:18,373
Speaker 2: some consider his b Minor Mass to be his greatest achievement,

1335
01:25:19,213 --> 01:25:22,253
Speaker 2: but it was never performed in his life. It sat

1336
01:25:22,293 --> 01:25:26,853
Speaker 2: in his draw as a private meditation. It's remarkable to

1337
01:25:26,933 --> 01:25:30,813
Speaker 2: imagine Bark being told in his time that three hundred

1338
01:25:30,933 --> 01:25:35,053
Speaker 2: years later, a single cellist would perform his suites in

1339
01:25:35,093 --> 01:25:39,293
Speaker 2: a grand central station, with crowds rushing by, an audience

1340
01:25:39,333 --> 01:25:42,693
Speaker 2: of thousands of people doing other things, and only one

1341
01:25:42,733 --> 01:25:47,893
Speaker 2: person stopping to listen carefully. Somehow, these pieces transcend all

1342
01:25:47,973 --> 01:25:52,373
Speaker 2: things contemporary and must sound today exactly as they did

1343
01:25:52,533 --> 01:25:56,173
Speaker 2: hundreds of years ago and will sound hundreds of years Hence,

1344
01:25:57,093 --> 01:25:59,493
Speaker 2: I think two of the player who sat there casting

1345
01:25:59,533 --> 01:26:02,853
Speaker 2: blessing on the crowds with his stunning talents what made

1346
01:26:02,933 --> 01:26:06,493
Speaker 2: him take up cello? He shortly faced down warnings from

1347
01:26:06,533 --> 01:26:09,573
Speaker 2: family and friends that he will would never make much

1348
01:26:09,573 --> 01:26:13,173
Speaker 2: of a living from doing this. He studied decades, with

1349
01:26:13,373 --> 01:26:17,093
Speaker 2: thousands of hours alone in practice, cultivating a level of

1350
01:26:17,133 --> 01:26:20,933
Speaker 2: skill not one in a million corporate functionaries have, and

1351
01:26:21,013 --> 01:26:25,093
Speaker 2: yet here he is. Artists on this level often report

1352
01:26:25,133 --> 01:26:27,693
Speaker 2: that they could do no other They simply had to

1353
01:26:27,693 --> 01:26:33,693
Speaker 2: follow their passions and dream, despite inevitable stuttering and possible poverty.

1354
01:26:34,013 --> 01:26:37,293
Speaker 2: Such beauty and talent often runs headlong into the buzzsaw

1355
01:26:37,373 --> 01:26:40,453
Speaker 2: of real life. A New York City chalist once told

1356
01:26:40,453 --> 01:26:43,413
Speaker 2: me that there are two kinds of challists who cannot

1357
01:26:43,413 --> 01:26:46,053
Speaker 2: find work in the city, the worst and the best.

1358
01:26:46,253 --> 01:26:48,813
Speaker 2: The part about the worst is easy to explain. The

1359
01:26:48,853 --> 01:26:52,093
Speaker 2: part about the best gets us into gritty reflections on

1360
01:26:52,693 --> 01:26:57,253
Speaker 2: envy and how ubiquitously it crushes excellence. There is never

1361
01:26:57,373 --> 01:27:00,533
Speaker 2: a good rational reason to go into art as a profession,

1362
01:27:00,933 --> 01:27:05,053
Speaker 2: but there is every idealistic reason. This is the reason

1363
01:27:05,093 --> 01:27:07,733
Speaker 2: that I cannot fathom why any artist would want to

1364
01:27:07,773 --> 01:27:11,533
Speaker 2: participate in any project that makes the world uglier, as

1365
01:27:11,533 --> 01:27:14,893
Speaker 2: we see in so many government funded art venues in

1366
01:27:15,013 --> 01:27:18,933
Speaker 2: large cities today and have for a century. Art that

1367
01:27:19,133 --> 01:27:22,213
Speaker 2: fails to transcend is not worthy of the name in

1368
01:27:22,213 --> 01:27:25,813
Speaker 2: my view. In all times and all places, there are

1369
01:27:26,093 --> 01:27:31,853
Speaker 2: surely settings and moments that we can find that provide sanctuary, oasis, refuge,

1370
01:27:31,893 --> 01:27:36,093
Speaker 2: and safe haven for the soul. What form mistakes is

1371
01:27:36,133 --> 01:27:40,013
Speaker 2: different for everyone regardless, This space and the soul must

1372
01:27:40,093 --> 01:27:44,013
Speaker 2: be fed for our own sake, but also to beautify

1373
01:27:44,053 --> 01:27:47,813
Speaker 2: the world and keep it together and livable for another day.

1374
01:27:48,693 --> 01:27:51,573
Speaker 2: Those who do the hard work deserve our gratitude, even

1375
01:27:51,613 --> 01:27:54,813
Speaker 2: if the worldly games will never be there. I would

1376
01:27:54,853 --> 01:27:58,493
Speaker 2: trade the tens of thousands of United Nations hangers on

1377
01:27:59,053 --> 01:28:02,213
Speaker 2: gathered in the city that day for this one cellist,

1378
01:28:02,493 --> 01:28:06,053
Speaker 2: who sitting on that platform at the train station, playing

1379
01:28:06,093 --> 01:28:11,133
Speaker 2: alone to no one in particular, revealed more truth than

1380
01:28:11,253 --> 01:28:15,813
Speaker 2: all the combined speeches that week given to the multitude.

1381
01:28:16,013 --> 01:28:19,133
Speaker 2: I think that last paragraph summarizes it perfectly. It was

1382
01:28:19,133 --> 01:28:21,373
Speaker 2: a bit long, I know, but I thought it was

1383
01:28:21,413 --> 01:28:23,933
Speaker 2: worthy of from sharing for those of you who sat

1384
01:28:23,973 --> 01:28:28,773
Speaker 2: with it. Thank you, and thank you Jeffrey Tucker, and

1385
01:28:28,893 --> 01:28:31,293
Speaker 2: that ladies and gentlemen takes us out to podcasts two

1386
01:28:31,373 --> 01:28:35,573
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty eight. We shall return shortly with a

1387
01:28:35,653 --> 01:28:38,893
Speaker 2: number nine on the end. Until then, if you would

1388
01:28:38,893 --> 01:28:41,093
Speaker 2: care to comment on anything from today, or anything else

1389
01:28:41,133 --> 01:28:44,453
Speaker 2: for that better Layton at newstalksb dot co dot nz

1390
01:28:44,693 --> 01:28:48,893
Speaker 2: or Carolyn at newstalksb dot co dot nz, I invite

1391
01:28:48,933 --> 01:28:52,213
Speaker 2: you to write on all and sundry. We love getting

1392
01:28:52,253 --> 01:28:55,413
Speaker 2: it so that takes us away. The only thing left

1393
01:28:55,413 --> 01:28:58,773
Speaker 2: to say is once again, thank you for listening and

1394
01:28:58,853 --> 01:28:59,573
Speaker 2: we'll talk soon.

1395
01:29:07,413 --> 01:29:11,693
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from newstalkset B. Listen live on

1396
01:29:11,773 --> 01:29:14,733
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

1397
01:29:14,813 --> 01:29:17,373
Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio