1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:19,573 Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio, Strike 3 00:00:19,733 --> 00:00:20,813 Speaker 1: down the Middle of. 4 00:00:20,933 --> 00:00:22,333 Speaker 2: Dry disc. 5 00:00:23,813 --> 00:00:25,293 Speaker 3: Try these. 6 00:00:28,693 --> 00:00:33,213 Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct 7 00:00:33,333 --> 00:00:37,053 Speaker 1: with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB. 8 00:00:37,413 --> 00:00:40,893 Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct power by Excess Solutions, elevating you 9 00:00:40,933 --> 00:00:45,053 Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith News 10 00:00:45,053 --> 00:00:49,053 Speaker 3: Talks be lead Rugby commentator with me as always for 11 00:00:49,093 --> 00:00:49,813 Speaker 3: at least this week. 12 00:00:49,813 --> 00:00:51,813 Speaker 2: He is about to swam off overseas for. 13 00:00:51,773 --> 00:00:52,213 Speaker 4: A week. 14 00:00:54,693 --> 00:00:55,333 Speaker 2: Sabbatical. 15 00:00:56,573 --> 00:01:02,333 Speaker 3: Liam Napier is back with us and Liam we records. 16 00:01:02,373 --> 00:01:07,733 Speaker 3: In the wake of the All Blacks worst ever defeat 17 00:01:08,493 --> 00:01:12,373 Speaker 3: Hands of the spring Box in the Capital, It's hard 18 00:01:12,373 --> 00:01:16,373 Speaker 3: to really zero in on exactly what went wrong apart 19 00:01:16,413 --> 00:01:21,013 Speaker 3: from everything, so I guess your initial top line thoughts 20 00:01:21,173 --> 00:01:25,893 Speaker 3: as the All Blacks contemplate just being absolutely walloped by 21 00:01:25,933 --> 00:01:26,573 Speaker 3: the spring Box. 22 00:01:28,013 --> 00:01:31,333 Speaker 4: Yes, Elliott's it was the sun rose today, but it 23 00:01:31,373 --> 00:01:32,973 Speaker 4: was a dark day, isn't it? 24 00:01:33,013 --> 00:01:33,933 Speaker 5: Across the country. 25 00:01:34,453 --> 00:01:37,453 Speaker 4: As you mentioned, the All Blacks heaviest defeat, their largest 26 00:01:37,493 --> 00:01:41,213 Speaker 4: loss at home, the most points conceded in the second half. 27 00:01:41,733 --> 00:01:46,293 Speaker 4: South Africa scoring thirty six unanswered points, five second half tries, 28 00:01:47,093 --> 00:01:52,373 Speaker 4: and I think most who witnessed that game were stunned, really, 29 00:01:53,373 --> 00:01:57,333 Speaker 4: and I can't remember in my time as a journalist 30 00:01:57,733 --> 00:02:00,893 Speaker 4: or even as a fan of the game watching are 31 00:02:00,933 --> 00:02:05,173 Speaker 4: worse thirty minutes from the All Blacks. And I think, 32 00:02:05,213 --> 00:02:09,293 Speaker 4: to really illustrate that further, hordes of New Zealand fans 33 00:02:09,413 --> 00:02:12,493 Speaker 4: at the Capton left early. I have never ever seen 34 00:02:12,533 --> 00:02:15,173 Speaker 4: that at a home All Blacks test in my life. 35 00:02:15,293 --> 00:02:17,853 Speaker 3: No, it was what I think about eleven minutes ago 36 00:02:17,853 --> 00:02:21,693 Speaker 3: when Coaga Smith made it twenty nine ten, if memory serves, 37 00:02:22,453 --> 00:02:25,653 Speaker 3: locked up from our commentary position and saw that fans 38 00:02:25,693 --> 00:02:30,933 Speaker 3: were leaving in droves. Really, and you're right, I can't 39 00:02:30,973 --> 00:02:33,733 Speaker 3: recall an instance like that in New Zealand in the 40 00:02:33,773 --> 00:02:36,533 Speaker 3: rugby history, and that should send a message to the 41 00:02:36,533 --> 00:02:40,173 Speaker 3: All Blacks players, the All Blacks coaches New Zealand Rugbig 42 00:02:40,253 --> 00:02:44,173 Speaker 3: that what they delivered was not good enough across that 43 00:02:44,253 --> 00:02:48,613 Speaker 3: eighty minutes. And it's hard to because naturally we're going 44 00:02:48,653 --> 00:02:50,413 Speaker 3: to zero in on the All Blacks because we're in 45 00:02:50,413 --> 00:02:53,573 Speaker 3: New Zealand podcast. When New Zealand journalists the spring Box 46 00:02:53,613 --> 00:02:57,333 Speaker 3: were utterly outstanding. They beat the All Blacks in every 47 00:02:57,333 --> 00:03:00,693 Speaker 3: facet of the game. They deserved to win by that 48 00:03:00,813 --> 00:03:04,293 Speaker 3: score line, but naturally we're zeroing in on the All 49 00:03:04,293 --> 00:03:07,413 Speaker 3: Blacks and going what on Earth went wrong? At ten 50 00:03:07,413 --> 00:03:09,573 Speaker 3: to seven and a half time, it felt like the 51 00:03:09,573 --> 00:03:11,453 Speaker 3: All Blacks obviously they were hit on the score, but 52 00:03:11,493 --> 00:03:13,973 Speaker 3: it felt like they was still didn't have really have 53 00:03:14,133 --> 00:03:16,613 Speaker 3: momentum in the game, felt like they were playing from 54 00:03:16,613 --> 00:03:19,053 Speaker 3: behind a little bit. They were struggling to get the 55 00:03:19,053 --> 00:03:21,053 Speaker 3: scrum going, but they were in the contest and they've 56 00:03:21,053 --> 00:03:24,253 Speaker 3: given themselves a freers chance heading into the second spell 57 00:03:24,293 --> 00:03:26,973 Speaker 3: with that three point lead at the break. But the 58 00:03:27,013 --> 00:03:30,093 Speaker 3: spring Boks just went up a level after halftime and 59 00:03:30,613 --> 00:03:33,173 Speaker 3: the All Blacks simply couldn't go with them. They were 60 00:03:33,213 --> 00:03:35,853 Speaker 3: clinging on, it felt like for a period of time 61 00:03:35,933 --> 00:03:38,893 Speaker 3: and then basically just went under the water and didn't 62 00:03:38,933 --> 00:03:40,333 Speaker 3: come back up well. 63 00:03:40,373 --> 00:03:42,653 Speaker 4: There was a massive turning point in that first half 64 00:03:42,693 --> 00:03:45,533 Speaker 4: when Chesl and Colby gets interset. I think it's about 65 00:03:45,533 --> 00:03:49,213 Speaker 4: the twenty fourth minute. Billy Proctor had two men outside 66 00:03:49,253 --> 00:03:51,653 Speaker 4: of some Parker and Lee roy Card. I think they're 67 00:03:51,653 --> 00:03:54,453 Speaker 4: pretty much marked and the All Blacks attack at that 68 00:03:54,493 --> 00:03:58,573 Speaker 4: point is just starting to really click. That created the 69 00:03:59,013 --> 00:04:02,493 Speaker 4: Lee Roy Cartera's first test try with sweeping movements across 70 00:04:02,493 --> 00:04:06,133 Speaker 4: the field, backs and forwards linking some really nice interplay 71 00:04:06,653 --> 00:04:10,693 Speaker 4: and that was a fourty point momentum swing and it 72 00:04:10,773 --> 00:04:14,173 Speaker 4: really did felt feel like the All Blacks just couldn't 73 00:04:14,173 --> 00:04:16,053 Speaker 4: get a grip of the game from then on the 74 00:04:16,093 --> 00:04:17,733 Speaker 4: spring box in that first half that I think they 75 00:04:17,773 --> 00:04:21,853 Speaker 4: had something like seventy three percent territory, but the same 76 00:04:22,253 --> 00:04:26,493 Speaker 4: issues blunted their game. They couldn't we couldn't finish their 77 00:04:26,533 --> 00:04:30,373 Speaker 4: opening try through R. G. Snyman was ruled out for 78 00:04:30,853 --> 00:04:33,813 Speaker 4: a couple of knock ons at the base. But then 79 00:04:33,853 --> 00:04:35,893 Speaker 4: they really got into their work in the second after 80 00:04:36,093 --> 00:04:40,293 Speaker 4: they and I think we've got a PAUSEEV and just 81 00:04:41,573 --> 00:04:44,613 Speaker 4: touch on the spring box because it was such a 82 00:04:44,693 --> 00:04:50,373 Speaker 4: drastic shift in style and it was a big risk. 83 00:04:50,453 --> 00:04:53,253 Speaker 4: After Eden Park, Razi went all in on his veterans 84 00:04:53,293 --> 00:04:56,173 Speaker 4: at Eden Park. Then he made seven starting changes that 85 00:04:56,213 --> 00:04:59,453 Speaker 4: back line. I think they had something like one hundred 86 00:04:59,493 --> 00:05:02,293 Speaker 4: and seventy three caps. Boden Barrett and Jordi Barrett had 87 00:05:02,333 --> 00:05:04,973 Speaker 4: more caps between them than the whole Springbok back line. 88 00:05:05,053 --> 00:05:07,893 Speaker 4: So it's a hell of a show of faith in 89 00:05:08,453 --> 00:05:11,453 Speaker 4: in youth in the next generation, and then the spring 90 00:05:11,533 --> 00:05:14,053 Speaker 4: Box had to actually cope with a number of different injuries. 91 00:05:14,093 --> 00:05:17,213 Speaker 4: They lost their fullback Fussy, they lost their starting first five. 92 00:05:17,293 --> 00:05:23,453 Speaker 4: Sasha Rhinanuk came and went, but Damien Willimpson was the 93 00:05:23,533 --> 00:05:26,853 Speaker 4: key to that Springbox game and the way they played 94 00:05:26,853 --> 00:05:31,133 Speaker 4: the off floading that the width, the ball movement. We 95 00:05:31,213 --> 00:05:35,013 Speaker 4: haven't seen the Springbox play successfully like that for a 96 00:05:35,053 --> 00:05:37,893 Speaker 4: long time, and it did feel like a real turning 97 00:05:37,973 --> 00:05:40,493 Speaker 4: point for the Box and the way that they will 98 00:05:40,533 --> 00:05:41,333 Speaker 4: now go forward. 99 00:05:41,413 --> 00:05:43,733 Speaker 3: It felt like the game plan that Tony Brown was 100 00:05:43,773 --> 00:05:46,653 Speaker 3: trying to implement at Alice Park that didn't quite come 101 00:05:46,693 --> 00:05:49,293 Speaker 3: to pass, or at least did for thirty forty minutes 102 00:05:49,293 --> 00:05:51,213 Speaker 3: of that game and then fell apart in the second spell. 103 00:05:51,573 --> 00:05:53,813 Speaker 3: It felt like that was the fruits of that labor. 104 00:05:54,213 --> 00:05:56,013 Speaker 3: That was a bit more understanding of what they were 105 00:05:56,013 --> 00:05:58,093 Speaker 3: trying to do, a bit more confidence in the game plan, 106 00:05:58,133 --> 00:06:00,533 Speaker 3: and they just overran the All Blacks and by the 107 00:06:00,613 --> 00:06:02,853 Speaker 3: end of it, they were running rings around the All Blacks. 108 00:06:02,893 --> 00:06:04,893 Speaker 3: The All Blacks look fatigue, that looked tired, and by 109 00:06:04,893 --> 00:06:07,173 Speaker 3: the eightieth minute, the spring Box, who had to dip 110 00:06:07,173 --> 00:06:09,733 Speaker 3: into the bench. Did you said early, we're looking the 111 00:06:09,733 --> 00:06:12,213 Speaker 3: fresher team, looking at the more confident team. They played 112 00:06:12,213 --> 00:06:16,013 Speaker 3: with pace and power and just ran over the All 113 00:06:16,013 --> 00:06:17,373 Speaker 3: Blacks into submission. 114 00:06:17,613 --> 00:06:20,853 Speaker 4: Well, there's been Springbok performances in recent times where they've 115 00:06:21,133 --> 00:06:25,453 Speaker 4: overpowered the All Blacks or won through their physicality or 116 00:06:25,893 --> 00:06:28,733 Speaker 4: their ability under the high ball and their kicking game. 117 00:06:28,773 --> 00:06:31,493 Speaker 4: But they tore the All Blacks two shreds. They did 118 00:06:31,493 --> 00:06:34,453 Speaker 4: an All Blacks to the All Blacks almost and the 119 00:06:35,133 --> 00:06:37,453 Speaker 4: fundamentals were still there. They did a number on the 120 00:06:37,453 --> 00:06:41,413 Speaker 4: All Black scrum. Jason Ryan came out and said, after 121 00:06:41,453 --> 00:06:44,253 Speaker 4: the big tight head at Eden Park that will never 122 00:06:44,293 --> 00:06:47,333 Speaker 4: happen again. Well, the All Black scrum did not improve. 123 00:06:48,853 --> 00:06:52,333 Speaker 4: The All Blacks lineout imploded, particularly when Brody McAllister came 124 00:06:52,373 --> 00:06:55,973 Speaker 4: off the bench, and there was some weird tactical decisions 125 00:06:55,973 --> 00:06:58,893 Speaker 4: around where they were throwing at that time, which probably 126 00:06:58,893 --> 00:07:03,573 Speaker 4: didn't help him. But the Springboks just feasted on the 127 00:07:03,573 --> 00:07:07,013 Speaker 4: All Blacks mistakes. They grew in confidence and then in 128 00:07:07,053 --> 00:07:10,373 Speaker 4: that last twenty minutes when the Springboks are running rampant, 129 00:07:11,653 --> 00:07:13,733 Speaker 4: I think you've got a question. Not necessarily the All 130 00:07:13,733 --> 00:07:16,853 Speaker 4: Blacks effort, but the heads dropped, and you should never 131 00:07:16,933 --> 00:07:18,733 Speaker 4: see that from the All Blacks. Some of their defense 132 00:07:18,853 --> 00:07:22,693 Speaker 4: was feeble. They missed forty six tackles. 133 00:07:22,293 --> 00:07:23,933 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is unacceptable for an All Black. 134 00:07:23,973 --> 00:07:26,853 Speaker 3: So they missed forty in Buenos aidis remembory off the 135 00:07:26,853 --> 00:07:30,413 Speaker 3: top of my head, though obviously careering to a defeat 136 00:07:30,453 --> 00:07:32,413 Speaker 3: at that point in the game, but to blow it 137 00:07:32,413 --> 00:07:35,813 Speaker 3: out to a record margin I thought was really poor. 138 00:07:36,293 --> 00:07:39,333 Speaker 3: The game was done probably before Quagasmith made it what 139 00:07:39,373 --> 00:07:42,053 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, late in the game, with about eleven minutes 140 00:07:42,093 --> 00:07:45,013 Speaker 3: to go, but to con see two more tries Simon 141 00:07:45,133 --> 00:07:49,533 Speaker 3: Estehesen in the closing stages, the heads did drop, and 142 00:07:49,573 --> 00:07:52,373 Speaker 3: that is inexcusable, I think from an all Black side. Yes, 143 00:07:52,413 --> 00:07:55,693 Speaker 3: if you're going to lose, lose with your heads held high, 144 00:07:55,733 --> 00:07:59,693 Speaker 3: with some valor, with something, with some pride in your performance. 145 00:07:59,933 --> 00:08:04,373 Speaker 3: But if anything, they basically switched off and resigned themselves 146 00:08:04,373 --> 00:08:05,293 Speaker 3: to the defeat. 147 00:08:06,333 --> 00:08:07,293 Speaker 5: Well, look at the first half. 148 00:08:07,293 --> 00:08:11,293 Speaker 4: Look at Jordi Barrett's sack on Cheslin Colby, Try savor. 149 00:08:11,973 --> 00:08:14,653 Speaker 4: That's the sort of effort, the benchmark effort, that you 150 00:08:15,453 --> 00:08:18,813 Speaker 4: expect from all Black teams, regardless of the score. Regardless 151 00:08:18,813 --> 00:08:21,733 Speaker 4: of the occasion, regardless of the opposition, And I don't 152 00:08:21,733 --> 00:08:22,453 Speaker 4: think we saw that. 153 00:08:22,773 --> 00:08:24,093 Speaker 5: And you're right. 154 00:08:24,093 --> 00:08:26,533 Speaker 4: It comes down to pride, pride in your performance, pride 155 00:08:26,573 --> 00:08:30,613 Speaker 4: in the jersey. And you know, the All Blacks are 156 00:08:30,613 --> 00:08:34,773 Speaker 4: built up and sold around the world. Is this mythical 157 00:08:35,613 --> 00:08:41,093 Speaker 4: beast that's you know, has history and legacy. Well, that 158 00:08:41,253 --> 00:08:45,253 Speaker 4: sort of standards damages the brand massively. 159 00:08:45,613 --> 00:08:46,053 Speaker 2: It does. 160 00:08:46,813 --> 00:08:48,813 Speaker 3: And there's been two of these sort of defeats in 161 00:08:48,853 --> 00:08:52,413 Speaker 3: recent years thirty five to seven in London in twenty 162 00:08:52,453 --> 00:08:55,013 Speaker 3: twenty three under a different coaching set up. Now this 163 00:08:55,173 --> 00:09:00,333 Speaker 3: performance over the weekend forty three to ten and winning, 164 00:09:00,573 --> 00:09:02,653 Speaker 3: you know, is what this legacy of the All Blacks 165 00:09:02,733 --> 00:09:05,173 Speaker 3: is built on. Every team is going to lose, but 166 00:09:05,213 --> 00:09:08,133 Speaker 3: their record is something they sell around the globe, and 167 00:09:08,573 --> 00:09:12,453 Speaker 3: to lose by that margin creates ripples, creates headlines, and 168 00:09:13,493 --> 00:09:15,853 Speaker 3: I think it could do damage to the All Blacks brand, 169 00:09:16,373 --> 00:09:18,853 Speaker 3: just if we go away from that topic, just from 170 00:09:18,893 --> 00:09:20,733 Speaker 3: the game itself for just a moment. I think these 171 00:09:20,733 --> 00:09:24,133 Speaker 3: losses do hurt the All Black's reputation around the globe. 172 00:09:24,853 --> 00:09:28,253 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, of course it does, because the All Blacks 173 00:09:28,253 --> 00:09:31,893 Speaker 4: brand's built on excellence, on innovation on leading the world. 174 00:09:32,053 --> 00:09:35,093 Speaker 4: And I think if you look at a couple of 175 00:09:35,133 --> 00:09:36,933 Speaker 4: weeks ago, the All Black swe number one in the world, 176 00:09:36,973 --> 00:09:41,813 Speaker 4: while you and I and most rugby followers question that, 177 00:09:42,453 --> 00:09:45,333 Speaker 4: and I think we're now seeing the reason why, because 178 00:09:45,973 --> 00:09:50,933 Speaker 4: if you broaden the context out, the patchy form of 179 00:09:50,973 --> 00:09:54,413 Speaker 4: this All Black team has been in the spotlight going 180 00:09:54,493 --> 00:09:57,173 Speaker 4: right back to July. Really against the French team that 181 00:09:57,253 --> 00:10:01,333 Speaker 4: was significantly under strength, they pulled out one performance against 182 00:10:01,373 --> 00:10:05,533 Speaker 4: the weakest French team of that whole series. Then they 183 00:10:05,533 --> 00:10:08,733 Speaker 4: go one on one in Argentina, pull out of performance 184 00:10:08,773 --> 00:10:10,813 Speaker 4: at Eden Park when they're backs to the wall when 185 00:10:10,813 --> 00:10:14,693 Speaker 4: the occasion demanded it Artie Severe's hundredth and they spoke 186 00:10:14,773 --> 00:10:17,253 Speaker 4: so much about getting back to that same mental level. 187 00:10:17,293 --> 00:10:20,093 Speaker 4: Maybe they focused on that too much, I'm not too sure. 188 00:10:20,533 --> 00:10:23,893 Speaker 4: But to then lose to the spring Books again the 189 00:10:23,933 --> 00:10:29,933 Speaker 4: following week, that they're consistently inconsistent, and for a coaching team, 190 00:10:30,773 --> 00:10:33,093 Speaker 4: that sort of suggests to me that they're being found out. 191 00:10:33,133 --> 00:10:36,573 Speaker 4: They've been worked out, that teams are playing them once, 192 00:10:36,653 --> 00:10:40,613 Speaker 4: playing them twice, and they're not showing them enough different pitches. 193 00:10:40,853 --> 00:10:45,173 Speaker 3: No, and this isn't just a Robertson era issue for 194 00:10:45,213 --> 00:10:47,293 Speaker 3: the All Blacks. It goes back to the Foster era 195 00:10:47,373 --> 00:10:50,333 Speaker 3: and even the latter stages of the Hanson era where 196 00:10:50,333 --> 00:10:53,333 Speaker 3: there were a few losses and obviously culminated in that 197 00:10:53,413 --> 00:10:56,853 Speaker 3: defeat it to England in twenty nineteen. But it feels 198 00:10:56,893 --> 00:11:00,253 Speaker 3: like the All Blacks have been stagnant for a number 199 00:11:00,293 --> 00:11:03,453 Speaker 3: of years now and this is through different coaches. So 200 00:11:03,573 --> 00:11:06,093 Speaker 3: is that the players that are the issue? Is that 201 00:11:06,213 --> 00:11:08,853 Speaker 3: the coaching is not up to standard? Is is it 202 00:11:08,893 --> 00:11:09,493 Speaker 3: a bit of both? 203 00:11:10,573 --> 00:11:11,733 Speaker 5: I think it's a bit of everything. 204 00:11:11,813 --> 00:11:15,213 Speaker 4: And look, we also have to have a bit of 205 00:11:15,333 --> 00:11:19,933 Speaker 4: perspective test rugby, isn't it is an incredibly competitive beast. 206 00:11:21,013 --> 00:11:23,373 Speaker 4: No team in this Rugby Championship has won back to 207 00:11:23,373 --> 00:11:27,613 Speaker 4: back games. They're all two and two, So what a 208 00:11:27,653 --> 00:11:32,453 Speaker 4: tournament from a neutral's perspective. But the All Blacks, as 209 00:11:32,693 --> 00:11:36,933 Speaker 4: we've sort of touched on here, they've built their whole ethos, 210 00:11:36,973 --> 00:11:40,893 Speaker 4: their brand around being number one, around being excellent, and 211 00:11:41,333 --> 00:11:44,853 Speaker 4: they demand the highest of standards and they've come back 212 00:11:44,893 --> 00:11:46,973 Speaker 4: to the pack massively and I think that was maybe 213 00:11:47,013 --> 00:11:50,893 Speaker 4: always going to happen, But there's some real question marks 214 00:11:50,933 --> 00:11:55,693 Speaker 4: around areas of their game that aren't improving and haven't 215 00:11:55,733 --> 00:12:00,293 Speaker 4: improved for some time, and the flip flop of. 216 00:12:00,333 --> 00:12:06,093 Speaker 5: Results around leadership, coaching innovation. 217 00:12:06,413 --> 00:12:09,293 Speaker 4: You know, the All Blacks, where's the number WI We've 218 00:12:09,293 --> 00:12:11,493 Speaker 4: seen a little bit of that and the set piece 219 00:12:11,573 --> 00:12:13,293 Speaker 4: plays that came off at Eden Park, but we're not 220 00:12:13,333 --> 00:12:16,533 Speaker 4: seeing it often enough. I think it was quite telling 221 00:12:16,573 --> 00:12:18,973 Speaker 4: that the All Blacks winn at Eden Park with Wayne 222 00:12:19,013 --> 00:12:23,733 Speaker 4: Smith and that coaching group and then have a massive 223 00:12:23,733 --> 00:12:25,653 Speaker 4: step backwards when he's not there the following week. 224 00:12:26,173 --> 00:12:28,853 Speaker 3: Indeed, looking at some of those stats last night, yes, 225 00:12:28,853 --> 00:12:31,333 Speaker 3: Sava Boss the territory, the All Blacks couldn't play in 226 00:12:31,373 --> 00:12:33,293 Speaker 3: the right areas of the ground. They didn't have enough 227 00:12:33,733 --> 00:12:37,813 Speaker 3: quality ball, They were suffocated and they were often going 228 00:12:37,853 --> 00:12:42,933 Speaker 3: backwards when they did get their opportunities. And for an 229 00:12:42,973 --> 00:12:46,533 Speaker 3: All Blacks team, they need to be able to swing momentum. 230 00:12:46,613 --> 00:12:49,613 Speaker 3: And they had a moment in the second spell where 231 00:12:49,613 --> 00:12:52,653 Speaker 3: it felt like they needed a little we win, little 232 00:12:53,973 --> 00:12:56,773 Speaker 3: moment just to try and hook back in and get 233 00:12:56,813 --> 00:12:59,853 Speaker 3: back into the Test match. They got a penalty, they 234 00:12:59,853 --> 00:13:02,613 Speaker 3: had a lineer in s Afogo's twenty two and then 235 00:13:02,653 --> 00:13:04,693 Speaker 3: walls the tea. He gets penalized off the back of 236 00:13:05,773 --> 00:13:10,173 Speaker 3: that for obstruction, the pressure of vlve way off the 237 00:13:10,213 --> 00:13:11,853 Speaker 3: string looks just as the All Blacks were trying apply 238 00:13:11,933 --> 00:13:13,093 Speaker 3: some heat for the first time of the game. It 239 00:13:13,133 --> 00:13:15,453 Speaker 3: was those little things that the All Blacks just weren't 240 00:13:15,493 --> 00:13:18,413 Speaker 3: able to get right. But then the issues compounded over 241 00:13:18,413 --> 00:13:20,373 Speaker 3: the course of the game. And for me, I think 242 00:13:20,413 --> 00:13:22,653 Speaker 3: the issue with the All Blacks is that once they 243 00:13:22,653 --> 00:13:25,493 Speaker 3: get put on the back foot this team, they can't 244 00:13:25,533 --> 00:13:27,213 Speaker 3: seem to find a way to get on the front 245 00:13:27,253 --> 00:13:31,333 Speaker 3: foot again. And that's an intangible, it's an unknown thing, 246 00:13:31,493 --> 00:13:33,653 Speaker 3: but you can kind of sense it watching the game. 247 00:13:33,773 --> 00:13:36,413 Speaker 3: Is that when they put under pressure for long periods 248 00:13:36,413 --> 00:13:40,933 Speaker 3: of time, there's no one looking for, you know, playing 249 00:13:40,933 --> 00:13:43,333 Speaker 3: for territory, playing for a fifty twenty two, trying to 250 00:13:43,693 --> 00:13:46,453 Speaker 3: lift the team and swing the momentum. It feels like 251 00:13:46,493 --> 00:13:50,693 Speaker 3: they're almost resigned to, you know, playing and trying to 252 00:13:50,973 --> 00:13:52,813 Speaker 3: call their way back to the surface when it's simply 253 00:13:52,853 --> 00:13:53,293 Speaker 3: not working. 254 00:13:53,893 --> 00:13:58,173 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a very fair observation. The lack of composure 255 00:13:58,213 --> 00:14:01,213 Speaker 4: I think we've seen when things aren't going their way. 256 00:14:01,253 --> 00:14:05,973 Speaker 4: And I think about Argentina, the loss over there and 257 00:14:06,053 --> 00:14:10,293 Speaker 4: the way in which that train inspired with a late 258 00:14:10,413 --> 00:14:13,813 Speaker 4: try to Somersny Takyaho and then a yellow card to 259 00:14:13,813 --> 00:14:17,013 Speaker 4: sever Reese and then some botched line outs again down 260 00:14:17,093 --> 00:14:20,613 Speaker 4: the stretch. That lack of composure, the lack of clinical finishing. 261 00:14:20,933 --> 00:14:24,653 Speaker 4: You mentioned that the line out there, but also Will 262 00:14:24,733 --> 00:14:28,093 Speaker 4: Jordan a couple of moments there was a sweeping movement 263 00:14:28,173 --> 00:14:31,453 Speaker 4: he went through and I'm not sure if he was 264 00:14:31,493 --> 00:14:33,493 Speaker 4: trying to hit Billy Procter on the outside, but his 265 00:14:33,653 --> 00:14:37,493 Speaker 4: pass has gone long, it falls at Leroy Carter's feet 266 00:14:37,853 --> 00:14:40,293 Speaker 4: and the opportunity goes begging. Then late in the match, 267 00:14:41,613 --> 00:14:45,973 Speaker 4: Will Jordan reaches out and grounds the ball before the line. 268 00:14:46,053 --> 00:14:50,053 Speaker 4: So deal Black's had chances, But it's the ability that 269 00:14:50,093 --> 00:14:53,773 Speaker 4: you talking about to wrestle the momentum back. And yeah, 270 00:14:53,813 --> 00:14:56,973 Speaker 4: it's difficult against the team as big and powerful and 271 00:14:57,013 --> 00:15:01,533 Speaker 4: in this case as skillful and ambitious as the spring 272 00:15:01,533 --> 00:15:04,973 Speaker 4: Box were. But you need your on field leaders to 273 00:15:05,013 --> 00:15:07,813 Speaker 4: stand up. You need somebody to grab the game and 274 00:15:09,373 --> 00:15:11,813 Speaker 4: change the momentum to pull off a big play, and 275 00:15:11,853 --> 00:15:13,813 Speaker 4: we're not seeing that from the All Blacks when they're 276 00:15:14,253 --> 00:15:15,173 Speaker 4: really under the pump. 277 00:15:15,373 --> 00:15:15,813 Speaker 2: No we're not. 278 00:15:17,053 --> 00:15:21,813 Speaker 3: Aerially they'll put under pressure again in that match. I 279 00:15:21,853 --> 00:15:23,893 Speaker 3: don't know what the issue is well, I do not 280 00:15:23,933 --> 00:15:26,253 Speaker 3: what the issue is they can't catch. I don't know 281 00:15:26,293 --> 00:15:28,373 Speaker 3: why they haven't been able to fix it or find 282 00:15:28,413 --> 00:15:31,013 Speaker 3: fixes to it. It seems like every team in the 283 00:15:31,013 --> 00:15:34,133 Speaker 3: world now knows that's the way to strike fear into 284 00:15:34,133 --> 00:15:37,013 Speaker 3: the All Blacks is by going to the skies and 285 00:15:37,053 --> 00:15:40,053 Speaker 3: putting the All Blacks under pressure, because you know they're 286 00:15:40,053 --> 00:15:42,893 Speaker 3: going to cake it under that high ball more often 287 00:15:43,333 --> 00:15:45,453 Speaker 3: than not. And these are some good players that are 288 00:15:45,453 --> 00:15:49,693 Speaker 3: just seemingly incapable of catching high balls, and they've trained it, 289 00:15:49,773 --> 00:15:52,893 Speaker 3: They've put a lot of effort into training. Doesn't seem 290 00:15:52,933 --> 00:15:55,573 Speaker 3: to be fixing anything that's on that side of the ball. 291 00:15:55,573 --> 00:15:57,733 Speaker 3: But it's also when the All Blacks go aerial themselves, 292 00:15:57,773 --> 00:16:01,533 Speaker 3: I don't think they're getting enough distance or height from 293 00:16:01,613 --> 00:16:04,013 Speaker 3: their own kicks. They keep them low, they don't get 294 00:16:04,013 --> 00:16:06,173 Speaker 3: a lot of distance on them, whereas our start we 295 00:16:06,213 --> 00:16:10,413 Speaker 3: saw Money Libbock and a couple of other spring box 296 00:16:10,413 --> 00:16:12,733 Speaker 3: because go really high, you know there's a lot of 297 00:16:12,733 --> 00:16:16,013 Speaker 3: hangtime on those. It creates the indecision around it and 298 00:16:16,293 --> 00:16:18,133 Speaker 3: puts pressure on We're not seeing that from the All Black. 299 00:16:18,173 --> 00:16:20,533 Speaker 3: So I think on both sides of the aerial game, 300 00:16:20,733 --> 00:16:22,533 Speaker 3: they've got a hell of a lot to fix. 301 00:16:23,333 --> 00:16:27,413 Speaker 4: It feels very akin to two thousand and nine, when 302 00:16:28,133 --> 00:16:31,373 Speaker 4: I think it was the ELVs experimental law variations came 303 00:16:31,373 --> 00:16:34,453 Speaker 4: in and the kicking was very prevalent. And we're at 304 00:16:34,453 --> 00:16:37,573 Speaker 4: that point in rugby at the moment where World Rugby 305 00:16:37,653 --> 00:16:42,373 Speaker 4: have clamped down on escorts and anyone surrounding the jumper, 306 00:16:42,693 --> 00:16:44,613 Speaker 4: and the All Blacks aren't coping with it. 307 00:16:44,693 --> 00:16:46,093 Speaker 5: They haven't made their adjustments. 308 00:16:47,173 --> 00:16:50,693 Speaker 4: Maybe it's a technical thing, maybe it's tact tactical, but 309 00:16:50,733 --> 00:16:51,693 Speaker 4: they're not getting it right. 310 00:16:51,733 --> 00:16:52,413 Speaker 5: I think. 311 00:16:53,653 --> 00:16:58,613 Speaker 4: Not selecting Caleb Clark has been a big glaring mistake 312 00:16:58,973 --> 00:17:02,293 Speaker 4: for me. He's your best aerial exponent on the edge. 313 00:17:02,653 --> 00:17:04,373 Speaker 4: I'm not saying he's going to come in and solve 314 00:17:04,413 --> 00:17:08,293 Speaker 4: the issue overnight, but he's tall, he's great in the air, 315 00:17:08,453 --> 00:17:11,333 Speaker 4: not just under the high ball, but from kickoffs as well. 316 00:17:11,373 --> 00:17:14,893 Speaker 4: Often gets the restarts back, So I think he has 317 00:17:14,973 --> 00:17:18,373 Speaker 4: to come into the frame and whatever the All Blacks 318 00:17:18,373 --> 00:17:21,413 Speaker 4: are doing at training with Paul noodles in their faces 319 00:17:21,533 --> 00:17:27,493 Speaker 4: or what's the crash pad where we're jumping up, it's 320 00:17:27,533 --> 00:17:32,253 Speaker 4: not working. So maybe we've talked previously about a mike 321 00:17:32,333 --> 00:17:35,413 Speaker 4: the kick or some specialized outside help. I'm not sure 322 00:17:35,653 --> 00:17:39,453 Speaker 4: if that's the answer, but I think also we're seeing 323 00:17:39,493 --> 00:17:44,573 Speaker 4: here the fact that wingers and outside backs aren't necessarily 324 00:17:44,613 --> 00:17:47,573 Speaker 4: exposed to this in Super rugby. It's not part of 325 00:17:48,413 --> 00:17:51,653 Speaker 4: Super rugby, isn't really the kicking is not as prevalent. 326 00:17:51,773 --> 00:17:57,053 Speaker 4: So the All Blacks have been exposed there. But it's 327 00:17:57,093 --> 00:18:00,053 Speaker 4: not just one issue. Is it that that's one element? 328 00:18:00,773 --> 00:18:04,293 Speaker 4: But there are several parts of their game that aren't 329 00:18:04,293 --> 00:18:05,613 Speaker 4: improving week to week. 330 00:18:05,853 --> 00:18:06,293 Speaker 2: No, they're not. 331 00:18:07,653 --> 00:18:11,813 Speaker 3: Lineout was shambles late in the game. Brady McAllister came 332 00:18:11,893 --> 00:18:17,013 Speaker 3: on and the line out felder bits. The hooker gets 333 00:18:17,013 --> 00:18:19,813 Speaker 3: a lot of the blame for that, and it's the 334 00:18:19,813 --> 00:18:22,453 Speaker 3: way it goes. But you'd have to seriously question whether 335 00:18:22,533 --> 00:18:24,573 Speaker 3: McAllister gets another All Blacks opportunity. 336 00:18:25,293 --> 00:18:26,853 Speaker 5: It's twice now, yeah, exactly. 337 00:18:26,893 --> 00:18:28,733 Speaker 4: He came off the bench in Hamilton in the third 338 00:18:28,853 --> 00:18:33,373 Speaker 4: French Test and miss first three throws. So yeah, there's 339 00:18:33,373 --> 00:18:35,613 Speaker 4: a number of different moving parts to a lineout, but 340 00:18:36,013 --> 00:18:37,373 Speaker 4: there's a real common theme there. 341 00:18:37,493 --> 00:18:41,053 Speaker 3: There is scrum time. You touched on it earlier, but 342 00:18:41,093 --> 00:18:43,253 Speaker 3: the All Blacks said they worked on it. They put 343 00:18:43,253 --> 00:18:45,613 Speaker 3: a lot of resource into it this week, Well, it 344 00:18:45,613 --> 00:18:48,413 Speaker 3: didn't look like it. And the problem being is that 345 00:18:48,493 --> 00:18:51,093 Speaker 3: I know they got a scrum penalty at least once 346 00:18:51,533 --> 00:18:55,773 Speaker 3: last night, but when you start painting those pictures to 347 00:18:55,813 --> 00:19:00,533 Speaker 3: the referee, it's very hard to unshow them to the 348 00:19:00,533 --> 00:19:03,213 Speaker 3: referee and he's seeing momentum going one way or the 349 00:19:03,213 --> 00:19:06,013 Speaker 3: other and they were going backwards and so it's very, 350 00:19:06,093 --> 00:19:09,133 Speaker 3: very hard to get back into that contest. But the 351 00:19:09,133 --> 00:19:11,253 Speaker 3: All Blacks have prided themselves over on their scrum the 352 00:19:11,293 --> 00:19:13,213 Speaker 3: last couple of years. Well, it feels like I've taking 353 00:19:13,213 --> 00:19:15,573 Speaker 3: a massive leap backwards in that part of the game 354 00:19:15,733 --> 00:19:16,373 Speaker 3: over the last. 355 00:19:16,253 --> 00:19:17,053 Speaker 2: Couple of weeks. 356 00:19:17,493 --> 00:19:20,213 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think it's widely recognized that South Africa's the 357 00:19:20,253 --> 00:19:23,053 Speaker 4: best scrummaging team and wild Rugby ox Niche is the 358 00:19:24,573 --> 00:19:27,533 Speaker 4: if not the then one of the best scrummages in 359 00:19:27,573 --> 00:19:30,693 Speaker 4: the world game, and the All Blacks have really struggled 360 00:19:31,133 --> 00:19:35,813 Speaker 4: to match that. And tyro A Lomax was promoted to 361 00:19:35,893 --> 00:19:39,133 Speaker 4: try and shore up that scrum and he had some success, 362 00:19:39,173 --> 00:19:41,413 Speaker 4: but the All Blacks were very much on the back 363 00:19:41,413 --> 00:19:44,173 Speaker 4: foot throughout that game. It looked like they were basically 364 00:19:44,173 --> 00:19:45,813 Speaker 4: trying to get the ball in and out as quickly 365 00:19:45,853 --> 00:19:49,693 Speaker 4: as possible, and they were back peddling most of the time. 366 00:19:49,853 --> 00:19:52,653 Speaker 5: So it's a key focus for. 367 00:19:52,653 --> 00:19:55,413 Speaker 4: Jason Ryan and it will be a real source of 368 00:19:55,493 --> 00:20:00,573 Speaker 4: dented pride because the set piece is the best attacking 369 00:20:00,653 --> 00:20:03,413 Speaker 4: strike platform in the game at the moment defenses have 370 00:20:03,493 --> 00:20:06,013 Speaker 4: to set back. We saw the All Blacks have that 371 00:20:06,053 --> 00:20:09,173 Speaker 4: success there at Eden Park, and when you set pieces 372 00:20:09,253 --> 00:20:12,733 Speaker 4: under pressure, it's really hard for any elements of your 373 00:20:13,253 --> 00:20:14,613 Speaker 4: of your game to come together. 374 00:20:15,413 --> 00:20:19,933 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 375 00:20:22,533 --> 00:20:26,773 Speaker 3: Try try ten sixty every tackle, get up again. 376 00:20:29,973 --> 00:20:30,693 Speaker 2: Before time. 377 00:20:30,773 --> 00:20:31,933 Speaker 5: It's Rugby Direct. 378 00:20:33,693 --> 00:20:36,173 Speaker 3: It's interesting just seeing a lot of the comments around 379 00:20:36,253 --> 00:20:39,893 Speaker 3: the game last night and some of the reactions from 380 00:20:40,093 --> 00:20:41,453 Speaker 3: commentators and that sort of thing. 381 00:20:41,493 --> 00:20:43,653 Speaker 2: And we've just come back from the airport and you 382 00:20:43,773 --> 00:20:44,733 Speaker 2: said Mills Mooley and I. 383 00:20:44,733 --> 00:20:47,573 Speaker 3: Said this, I Kiaran Reid said a couple of critical 384 00:20:47,573 --> 00:20:52,533 Speaker 3: comments postgame last night as well. Apparently you know something 385 00:20:52,533 --> 00:20:56,653 Speaker 3: along the lines of there is something wrong inside this team. 386 00:20:57,333 --> 00:20:58,133 Speaker 2: How do you fix that? 387 00:20:58,213 --> 00:20:59,053 Speaker 5: I guess is the question. 388 00:20:59,933 --> 00:21:02,613 Speaker 4: Well, I think we're at the point now and it's 389 00:21:02,653 --> 00:21:07,573 Speaker 4: not knee jerk because we're eighteen months into Scott Robertson's tenure, 390 00:21:07,613 --> 00:21:10,613 Speaker 4: and I think from the outset there were question marks 391 00:21:10,653 --> 00:21:15,253 Speaker 4: about the inexperience at test level of this coaching team, 392 00:21:16,413 --> 00:21:20,613 Speaker 4: the balance of it in terms of forwards. 393 00:21:20,253 --> 00:21:24,053 Speaker 5: And backs, and just how it's operating as well. 394 00:21:24,053 --> 00:21:28,453 Speaker 4: And I think there are serious question marks about that 395 00:21:28,453 --> 00:21:29,453 Speaker 4: that coaching team. 396 00:21:29,533 --> 00:21:32,213 Speaker 5: But how do you think it's functioning well? 397 00:21:32,733 --> 00:21:34,693 Speaker 2: It's not functioning well enough. 398 00:21:36,213 --> 00:21:38,893 Speaker 3: We can accept that Test rugby the gap has closed, 399 00:21:38,893 --> 00:21:41,933 Speaker 3: but you can't accept a record defeat. And you can't 400 00:21:41,973 --> 00:21:44,813 Speaker 3: accept that lessons aren't being learned week to week and 401 00:21:45,373 --> 00:21:47,853 Speaker 3: the same mistakes are being made, and the lack of 402 00:21:47,853 --> 00:21:52,373 Speaker 3: attacking penetration isn't there and the defensive lapses aren't there. 403 00:21:52,413 --> 00:21:55,573 Speaker 3: We saw South Africa play with pace and power and 404 00:21:55,693 --> 00:21:59,653 Speaker 3: accuracy last night and all facets of the game. They 405 00:21:59,973 --> 00:22:02,773 Speaker 3: blasted the All Blacks at ruck time, they were strongest 406 00:22:02,813 --> 00:22:05,013 Speaker 3: set pieces we've touched on. When they had ball in hand, 407 00:22:05,053 --> 00:22:08,053 Speaker 3: it felt like they were paying it a pace at 408 00:22:08,053 --> 00:22:10,253 Speaker 3: the just couldn't keep up with. And now the All 409 00:22:10,293 --> 00:22:12,253 Speaker 3: Blacks have talked about wanting to play at pace and 410 00:22:12,293 --> 00:22:16,773 Speaker 3: play with accuracy and play fast. Well, Spring Walks did 411 00:22:16,773 --> 00:22:19,493 Speaker 3: that last night, and so I would Haste. I would 412 00:22:19,573 --> 00:22:22,613 Speaker 3: question whether the game plan is the right one for 413 00:22:22,653 --> 00:22:26,333 Speaker 3: the all Blacks that they're trying to use at the moments. 414 00:22:26,493 --> 00:22:28,773 Speaker 3: I think I'm not sure whether they've got too many 415 00:22:28,813 --> 00:22:32,293 Speaker 3: cooks in the kitchen around their structure and their attacking 416 00:22:32,333 --> 00:22:36,573 Speaker 3: play and everything like that, but whether they've got the 417 00:22:36,653 --> 00:22:40,173 Speaker 3: right people in those places. Because you look at the strongbox, 418 00:22:40,213 --> 00:22:42,773 Speaker 3: they've got a huge coaching staff. You've got Jako Piper 419 00:22:42,853 --> 00:22:46,093 Speaker 3: is the refereeing consultant and he's out there meeting with 420 00:22:46,133 --> 00:22:48,653 Speaker 3: the referees and everything like that. Dwayne Vermullin is their 421 00:22:48,693 --> 00:22:51,773 Speaker 3: breakdown specialist. Essentially, they've got any number of coaches, so 422 00:22:51,773 --> 00:22:54,653 Speaker 3: I don't think it's too many. Potentially, I think it's 423 00:22:54,693 --> 00:22:59,253 Speaker 3: the right cooks in the kitchen, and Dora say it, 424 00:22:59,293 --> 00:23:01,413 Speaker 3: I think they're lacking and this would be a big 425 00:23:01,453 --> 00:23:04,333 Speaker 3: step for New Zealand rugby, but you know they're lacking 426 00:23:04,373 --> 00:23:07,173 Speaker 3: some overseas experience to come in and tell it how 427 00:23:07,213 --> 00:23:09,573 Speaker 3: it is and how the rest of the world's playing, 428 00:23:09,613 --> 00:23:12,013 Speaker 3: and how the rest of the world looks at rugby 429 00:23:12,093 --> 00:23:13,853 Speaker 3: and looks at New Zealand, because it feels like New 430 00:23:13,933 --> 00:23:16,453 Speaker 3: Zealand's fallen behind. You know, we export a lot of 431 00:23:16,453 --> 00:23:20,053 Speaker 3: coaches overseas and they're on high demand. Don't get me wrong, 432 00:23:20,733 --> 00:23:22,533 Speaker 3: but it feels like you actually need some of that 433 00:23:22,653 --> 00:23:25,213 Speaker 3: outsider perspective. And now I don't know who's available and 434 00:23:25,613 --> 00:23:28,693 Speaker 3: who's got the kind of CV that would be the 435 00:23:29,053 --> 00:23:32,853 Speaker 3: Ronanagara is probably quite happy at stard Rochelle for example, 436 00:23:32,893 --> 00:23:34,373 Speaker 3: brother and coming in being a member of the All 437 00:23:34,373 --> 00:23:36,693 Speaker 3: Blacks coaching stuff. But you look at the spring Box. 438 00:23:36,773 --> 00:23:40,613 Speaker 3: Jerry Flannery is involved there, the irishman Tony Brown part 439 00:23:40,653 --> 00:23:43,653 Speaker 3: of that stuff as well. They've got a healthy number 440 00:23:43,733 --> 00:23:45,613 Speaker 3: of South Africans there, but they've got a whole lot 441 00:23:45,613 --> 00:23:49,133 Speaker 3: of perspectives that allow them to try and figure out 442 00:23:49,173 --> 00:23:51,533 Speaker 3: the best game plan to utilize these strengths. And I 443 00:23:51,533 --> 00:23:55,853 Speaker 3: think it'd be pig headed to suggest that New Zealand 444 00:23:55,893 --> 00:23:58,733 Speaker 3: is the epicenter of rugby and that the five or 445 00:23:58,773 --> 00:24:01,733 Speaker 3: six key members of that All Blacks coaching stuff, you know, 446 00:24:01,813 --> 00:24:03,013 Speaker 3: other best people for the job. 447 00:24:04,133 --> 00:24:05,573 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a valid point. 448 00:24:06,093 --> 00:24:07,613 Speaker 4: I know. I'll give you a lot of stick about 449 00:24:07,933 --> 00:24:10,053 Speaker 4: the cruse and all that sort of thing as well, 450 00:24:10,093 --> 00:24:15,413 Speaker 4: But on a genuine note here, I think the worry 451 00:24:15,453 --> 00:24:17,893 Speaker 4: for me is it's quite a close shop there and 452 00:24:18,213 --> 00:24:20,453 Speaker 4: from what I understand of that coaching team, it is 453 00:24:20,573 --> 00:24:27,413 Speaker 4: now a very close shop, tight knit crew between Hanson, 454 00:24:28,453 --> 00:24:34,933 Speaker 4: Scott Robertson and Jason Ryan. Those guys aren't necessarily hugely 455 00:24:35,013 --> 00:24:39,733 Speaker 4: worldly in their coaching experience, particularly in a test rugby arena. 456 00:24:40,493 --> 00:24:43,653 Speaker 4: Where's the discerning voices you talk about the spring box. 457 00:24:44,093 --> 00:24:46,973 Speaker 4: If you think about Russia, Russumus and Tony Brown, They're 458 00:24:46,973 --> 00:24:50,053 Speaker 4: almost coming from polar opposite views, aren't they. Tony Brown's 459 00:24:50,053 --> 00:24:54,253 Speaker 4: the attacking mind, the innovation. Russ's very much that old 460 00:24:54,293 --> 00:24:58,253 Speaker 4: school Springbok rugby well that came together on Saturday night. 461 00:24:59,573 --> 00:25:04,173 Speaker 4: And just in terms of the wider All Blacks coaching team, 462 00:25:05,173 --> 00:25:08,493 Speaker 4: Jason Hollins that the strike coach, how much, say, does 463 00:25:08,493 --> 00:25:11,333 Speaker 4: he actually get in the attack with Scott Hansen, I'm 464 00:25:11,333 --> 00:25:15,373 Speaker 4: not too sure. Tammody Ellison's been elevated very quickly into 465 00:25:15,413 --> 00:25:20,733 Speaker 4: a contact defensive role. Is he ready for that brief 466 00:25:20,773 --> 00:25:24,013 Speaker 4: when you look around the world at test rugby's defensive coaches. 467 00:25:24,093 --> 00:25:27,533 Speaker 4: So look, with a performance like this, the spotlight goes 468 00:25:27,613 --> 00:25:31,093 Speaker 4: on everyone, but it does start at the top and 469 00:25:32,373 --> 00:25:35,893 Speaker 4: it's that patchy form outside of this one off result 470 00:25:35,973 --> 00:25:39,213 Speaker 4: that that's probably almost more worrying for the All Blacks 471 00:25:39,213 --> 00:25:42,373 Speaker 4: that they can't string together back to back performances, that 472 00:25:43,213 --> 00:25:47,333 Speaker 4: they need an occasion or emotion to get to a 473 00:25:47,333 --> 00:25:50,813 Speaker 4: certain level, and that they are being figured out that 474 00:25:50,853 --> 00:25:51,813 Speaker 4: they're not progressing. 475 00:25:52,613 --> 00:25:53,053 Speaker 5: And so. 476 00:25:54,893 --> 00:25:58,173 Speaker 4: Scott Robinson when he got the job, knew his coaching 477 00:25:58,213 --> 00:26:01,733 Speaker 4: team a long way out, didn't he. We've seen change 478 00:26:01,733 --> 00:26:05,013 Speaker 4: with Liam McDonald moved on and in previous regimes were 479 00:26:05,053 --> 00:26:09,813 Speaker 4: then Foster. We saw how much of an movements a 480 00:26:09,973 --> 00:26:14,853 Speaker 4: change in assistance can have. So I don't expect to 481 00:26:14,893 --> 00:26:18,253 Speaker 4: see change yet. But this is a very live discussion 482 00:26:18,493 --> 00:26:21,333 Speaker 4: and I don't think it's as simple as beat the 483 00:26:21,373 --> 00:26:23,893 Speaker 4: Wallabies at Eden Park and everything's right again. Because we've 484 00:26:23,973 --> 00:26:26,173 Speaker 4: seen this flip flop nature of the All Blacks. We 485 00:26:26,213 --> 00:26:31,933 Speaker 4: need to see some consistency, some improvement before this coaching 486 00:26:31,933 --> 00:26:33,093 Speaker 4: team sort of out of the woods. 487 00:26:33,173 --> 00:26:36,093 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's important to suggest that this isn't 488 00:26:36,133 --> 00:26:40,453 Speaker 3: knee jerk stuff. What we saw at sky Stadium was 489 00:26:41,293 --> 00:26:45,613 Speaker 3: I guess the culmination of this stop start, hot, cold 490 00:26:45,813 --> 00:26:51,413 Speaker 3: All Blacks performance that again, it's not just the Scott 491 00:26:51,453 --> 00:26:54,453 Speaker 3: Robertson area era, but it's basically been going back, you 492 00:26:54,493 --> 00:26:58,573 Speaker 3: know since twenty twenty, if not slightly before then around 493 00:26:58,813 --> 00:27:02,053 Speaker 3: two steps for one step back. We saw the Island 494 00:27:02,053 --> 00:27:04,533 Speaker 3: defeat in twenty twenty two. We saw them go to 495 00:27:04,533 --> 00:27:08,213 Speaker 3: South Africa and lose and then win and save Foster's job. 496 00:27:08,413 --> 00:27:11,773 Speaker 3: We saw you know, the All Blacks Mount Smart Stadium 497 00:27:11,773 --> 00:27:14,053 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three again to spring Box. Then three 498 00:27:14,173 --> 00:27:17,213 Speaker 3: four weeks later they lose in London before the World 499 00:27:17,253 --> 00:27:19,253 Speaker 3: Cup to a record score and the NC. Yeah, that 500 00:27:19,293 --> 00:27:21,853 Speaker 3: game didn't matter, but it's symptomatic of where the All 501 00:27:21,893 --> 00:27:23,813 Speaker 3: Blacks have been over the last five or six years, 502 00:27:23,933 --> 00:27:26,693 Speaker 3: is that there's been no stake in the ground, right, 503 00:27:26,773 --> 00:27:28,533 Speaker 3: this is the way we play now, and this is 504 00:27:28,533 --> 00:27:33,493 Speaker 3: the way we play consistently. There's been just any number 505 00:27:33,533 --> 00:27:37,053 Speaker 3: of steps forward and then following week week after whatever 506 00:27:37,093 --> 00:27:39,893 Speaker 3: it might be won, two steps backwards. 507 00:27:40,293 --> 00:27:42,533 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think we're also seeing just how much of 508 00:27:42,573 --> 00:27:44,333 Speaker 4: a step up it is from super rugby. 509 00:27:44,413 --> 00:27:46,733 Speaker 5: We see that with players, yep, look at Billy Proctor. 510 00:27:47,453 --> 00:27:51,333 Speaker 4: He has been the best center in Super rugby for 511 00:27:51,333 --> 00:27:54,053 Speaker 4: at least two years and hasn't made the step up 512 00:27:54,093 --> 00:27:57,813 Speaker 4: to Test rugby. And I think we're seeing that with 513 00:27:58,413 --> 00:28:01,453 Speaker 4: coaching as well. Look at the influence that Joe Schmidtz 514 00:28:01,493 --> 00:28:07,733 Speaker 4: had on the Wallabies. He's a guy that's took transformed. 515 00:28:07,933 --> 00:28:14,093 Speaker 4: Irish came in and my mind was the driving force 516 00:28:14,213 --> 00:28:15,573 Speaker 4: behind the All Blacks transformation. 517 00:28:15,693 --> 00:28:16,933 Speaker 5: Then he goes to the Wallabies. 518 00:28:17,013 --> 00:28:20,533 Speaker 4: So test experience matters whether you're a player or a coach, 519 00:28:20,693 --> 00:28:24,133 Speaker 4: and I think we're seeing those floors born out in 520 00:28:24,173 --> 00:28:25,373 Speaker 4: this All Black coaching team. 521 00:28:25,533 --> 00:28:28,133 Speaker 3: Indeed, just before we wrap up this half of the podcast, 522 00:28:28,373 --> 00:28:33,493 Speaker 3: I guess we'll get into selection discussion next week. You'll 523 00:28:33,533 --> 00:28:35,573 Speaker 3: be away, but I guess probably a good chance for 524 00:28:35,613 --> 00:28:37,893 Speaker 3: you to say, now, you know, where do you go 525 00:28:37,933 --> 00:28:43,133 Speaker 3: to for eden Park? From an All Blacks perspective, you know, 526 00:28:44,053 --> 00:28:46,973 Speaker 3: it felt like last night players that played well at 527 00:28:47,093 --> 00:28:51,333 Speaker 3: eden Park went backwards. Felt like it feels like when 528 00:28:51,413 --> 00:28:54,813 Speaker 3: Artie Sava plays well, the All Blacks play well. He 529 00:28:54,853 --> 00:29:01,133 Speaker 3: didn't play well last night. Cody Taylor will come back 530 00:29:01,173 --> 00:29:04,333 Speaker 3: in for eden Park. Can Roygard apparently Progression really well, 531 00:29:04,373 --> 00:29:10,293 Speaker 3: so there's two changes there as well. Billy Proctor, I 532 00:29:10,333 --> 00:29:13,773 Speaker 3: don't know. I thought perhaps even his best Test match 533 00:29:14,573 --> 00:29:17,013 Speaker 3: last night, but I'm not even sure that's enough to 534 00:29:17,253 --> 00:29:20,133 Speaker 3: save his Josey for the next seast was leicsterfying a 535 00:29:20,173 --> 00:29:23,173 Speaker 3: Nooku on the horizon. Leroy Carter, we just mentioned him, 536 00:29:23,213 --> 00:29:25,813 Speaker 3: you know, debuting. I thought he had a solid debut. 537 00:29:25,853 --> 00:29:29,933 Speaker 3: But do you make sweeping changes for eden Park and 538 00:29:30,173 --> 00:29:31,773 Speaker 3: really try and send a message. 539 00:29:32,013 --> 00:29:33,453 Speaker 2: What's the approach here them? 540 00:29:33,933 --> 00:29:36,573 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we will see some change here. Scott 541 00:29:36,653 --> 00:29:41,653 Speaker 4: Robertson retain the faith for eden Park, but with the 542 00:29:42,373 --> 00:29:44,653 Speaker 4: patche form, I think he's going to have to pull 543 00:29:44,693 --> 00:29:47,253 Speaker 4: a few levers and that could be less defying a 544 00:29:47,293 --> 00:29:51,213 Speaker 4: noooko at center. I think cam Rouygar makes a massive difference. 545 00:29:51,853 --> 00:29:55,013 Speaker 4: You go from effectively fin Lay Christie because he played 546 00:29:55,013 --> 00:29:58,253 Speaker 4: seventy odd minutes of that game after Nahopam has injured 547 00:29:58,253 --> 00:30:01,053 Speaker 4: his ankle could be gone for the year, the other 548 00:30:01,093 --> 00:30:05,893 Speaker 4: ankle so very sad setback for him in his comeback game. 549 00:30:05,933 --> 00:30:09,933 Speaker 4: But fin Lay Christie to cam Rougard's I mean you're 550 00:30:09,973 --> 00:30:12,613 Speaker 4: jumping like twenty rungs in the half back qu In 551 00:30:12,653 --> 00:30:18,453 Speaker 4: the world game regards attacking influences, booming left boots will 552 00:30:18,453 --> 00:30:22,333 Speaker 4: have a massive impact. You mentioned Cody Taylor there. Caleb 553 00:30:22,373 --> 00:30:25,493 Speaker 4: Clark has to come back in for me. Potentially you 554 00:30:25,533 --> 00:30:28,093 Speaker 4: could switch Lee Ricarda to the right wing. I don't 555 00:30:28,093 --> 00:30:31,213 Speaker 4: see any reason why he couldn't do that. Defensively, He's 556 00:30:31,213 --> 00:30:33,293 Speaker 4: probably got a bit of work to do. But that's 557 00:30:33,373 --> 00:30:36,093 Speaker 4: right across the board. For this All Black team, will 558 00:30:36,133 --> 00:30:41,053 Speaker 4: Jordan probably goes back to fullback the forward pack. Look, 559 00:30:41,173 --> 00:30:45,653 Speaker 4: they fronted physically against the box. It's a matter maybe 560 00:30:45,653 --> 00:30:48,653 Speaker 4: it's a technical thing. Maybe to Mighty Williams he wasn't 561 00:30:48,693 --> 00:30:51,293 Speaker 4: great off the bench, but he could perhaps come in 562 00:30:51,373 --> 00:30:55,133 Speaker 4: and start. But the Orblick's actually there's not too many 563 00:30:55,133 --> 00:30:58,493 Speaker 4: players outside that squad that you could go to, is there. 564 00:30:58,813 --> 00:31:01,373 Speaker 3: No, that's the thing, isn't it. You know, these are 565 00:31:01,413 --> 00:31:04,853 Speaker 3: the players that I think consensus wise, you might quibble 566 00:31:04,853 --> 00:31:07,773 Speaker 3: over a player here all there, but are regarded as 567 00:31:07,773 --> 00:31:09,133 Speaker 3: the best player in the country. 568 00:31:09,853 --> 00:31:11,653 Speaker 2: You know, Hoskinstitutor still has his fans. 569 00:31:11,693 --> 00:31:14,493 Speaker 3: Dalton Papolli still has his fans, but it's not like 570 00:31:15,293 --> 00:31:17,773 Speaker 3: they're banging down the door at the moment either to 571 00:31:18,133 --> 00:31:19,293 Speaker 3: be picked out of the NPC. 572 00:31:20,573 --> 00:31:21,733 Speaker 2: The All Blacks have had a look at. 573 00:31:21,613 --> 00:31:24,733 Speaker 3: Them and discarded them. 574 00:31:24,813 --> 00:31:24,973 Speaker 1: You know. 575 00:31:25,053 --> 00:31:29,053 Speaker 3: Luke Jacobson's a player that for me has you know, 576 00:31:29,173 --> 00:31:31,533 Speaker 3: been at Tesla for five or six years now. I 577 00:31:31,653 --> 00:31:34,093 Speaker 3: can't see him, you know, really ever, being you know, 578 00:31:34,133 --> 00:31:37,573 Speaker 3: a first choice All Blacks loose forward. So it's a 579 00:31:37,573 --> 00:31:41,093 Speaker 3: matter of these players that are there just have to 580 00:31:41,373 --> 00:31:43,773 Speaker 3: basically deliver, isn't it It is? 581 00:31:43,933 --> 00:31:47,253 Speaker 4: And for the coaching team to bring out the best 582 00:31:47,293 --> 00:31:48,293 Speaker 4: in them. 583 00:31:49,373 --> 00:31:51,173 Speaker 5: That's that's their role. 584 00:31:51,333 --> 00:31:56,973 Speaker 4: And yeah, there's other guys like Peter Luckeye or a 585 00:31:56,973 --> 00:32:00,853 Speaker 4: few others on the fringe, but they're not really massive 586 00:32:00,973 --> 00:32:05,133 Speaker 4: game changing shift the needle type selections, are they, So 587 00:32:06,093 --> 00:32:10,013 Speaker 4: it's up to the All Blacks to drill down and 588 00:32:10,293 --> 00:32:12,933 Speaker 4: find some quick fixes. What did you make of Scott 589 00:32:13,013 --> 00:32:18,373 Speaker 4: Robinson's reaction to all this? Because he's not great after 590 00:32:18,413 --> 00:32:21,413 Speaker 4: a defeat, he needs some time to process it, to 591 00:32:21,693 --> 00:32:26,933 Speaker 4: analyze the game, maybe rewatch it. So immediately postmatch didn't 592 00:32:26,973 --> 00:32:30,053 Speaker 4: offer a lot, but even one day on from that, 593 00:32:30,653 --> 00:32:34,693 Speaker 4: reasonably calm and composed, certainly no sense of panic despite 594 00:32:35,253 --> 00:32:38,653 Speaker 4: being in charge of the biggest defeat in All Black's history, 595 00:32:38,893 --> 00:32:42,333 Speaker 4: which is another unwanted record on the first defeat at Argentina. 596 00:32:42,493 --> 00:32:44,053 Speaker 5: So yeah, do you think is. 597 00:32:44,053 --> 00:32:47,173 Speaker 4: It a matter of projecting calm while there's maybe a 598 00:32:47,213 --> 00:32:49,253 Speaker 4: sense of panic behind closed doors? Watch a sort of 599 00:32:49,253 --> 00:32:53,653 Speaker 4: read on how he's approached the post mortem. 600 00:32:53,893 --> 00:32:56,933 Speaker 3: I think he's just an outwardly calm person in his 601 00:32:57,053 --> 00:32:59,493 Speaker 3: dealings with the media and tries to keep it a 602 00:32:59,573 --> 00:33:03,773 Speaker 3: level head whatever's thrown at him. We've seen him passionate 603 00:33:03,813 --> 00:33:06,133 Speaker 3: in the coach's box during games when they cut two 604 00:33:06,213 --> 00:33:08,013 Speaker 3: shots of him there, so they're clearly there is a 605 00:33:08,013 --> 00:33:10,533 Speaker 3: passion for this team, and I don't doubt there is 606 00:33:10,573 --> 00:33:13,533 Speaker 3: a passion behind what he does and the decisions he 607 00:33:13,573 --> 00:33:16,773 Speaker 3: makes of the team. I don't think he conveys that 608 00:33:16,853 --> 00:33:20,613 Speaker 3: necessarily though when he does speak to media. I think 609 00:33:20,733 --> 00:33:22,653 Speaker 3: it takes a while for him to collect his thoughts 610 00:33:22,693 --> 00:33:27,733 Speaker 3: on the games and exactly what went wrong. But I 611 00:33:27,733 --> 00:33:30,213 Speaker 3: guess you've got to almost reflect the public mood in 612 00:33:30,253 --> 00:33:32,413 Speaker 3: a way, regardless of what your own mood is and 613 00:33:32,413 --> 00:33:35,213 Speaker 3: what you're trying to convey. You almost have to go, well, 614 00:33:35,253 --> 00:33:37,933 Speaker 3: the public wants to see this, so I have to 615 00:33:37,973 --> 00:33:40,293 Speaker 3: do it. It's like being a politician in a time 616 00:33:40,333 --> 00:33:42,533 Speaker 3: of crisis. Whatever, what does the public want to see? 617 00:33:42,773 --> 00:33:45,253 Speaker 3: What does the public need to see from me this? 618 00:33:46,293 --> 00:33:50,253 Speaker 3: And you have to pivot to that persona regardless of 619 00:33:50,253 --> 00:33:52,253 Speaker 3: whether it suits you, whether it regardless of whether you 620 00:33:52,613 --> 00:33:54,853 Speaker 3: feel like you're playing a character or whatever it might be. 621 00:33:54,973 --> 00:33:56,773 Speaker 3: You almost have to just go this is what the 622 00:33:56,773 --> 00:33:59,053 Speaker 3: public needs to see from me for this moment in time. 623 00:33:59,853 --> 00:34:02,133 Speaker 3: I'm going to deliver it. And we saw Russi Erasmus 624 00:34:02,133 --> 00:34:05,533 Speaker 3: when they got beaten by the Wallabies at Alice Park 625 00:34:05,733 --> 00:34:07,653 Speaker 3: last month. I was listening back to the medi conference 626 00:34:07,653 --> 00:34:09,733 Speaker 3: this morning. You know he said it was as dog 627 00:34:09,773 --> 00:34:13,693 Speaker 3: shit and you know most all Blacks fans would have 628 00:34:13,693 --> 00:34:18,533 Speaker 3: described that performance at sky Stadium as dog shit. Yeah. 629 00:34:18,573 --> 00:34:22,333 Speaker 4: Look, Robinson said he was probe today at the airport 630 00:34:22,333 --> 00:34:26,493 Speaker 4: when we were there about it, and he didn't really 631 00:34:26,533 --> 00:34:28,093 Speaker 4: go far enough. For me, I think there needs to 632 00:34:28,093 --> 00:34:32,853 Speaker 4: be a bit more blunt transparency. Honestly, we weren't good enough. 633 00:34:32,893 --> 00:34:36,533 Speaker 4: We didn't get it right. It's unacceptable just that that's 634 00:34:36,533 --> 00:34:41,413 Speaker 4: the sort of public messaging that I think fans can accept. 635 00:34:41,933 --> 00:34:45,893 Speaker 4: We'll get behind and rather than yeah, there's only a 636 00:34:45,893 --> 00:34:48,213 Speaker 4: couple of things and we'll draw down into them and 637 00:34:48,213 --> 00:34:49,813 Speaker 4: then everything will be hunky dory. 638 00:34:50,733 --> 00:34:53,973 Speaker 5: It was a bit yeah, but once over lightly. 639 00:34:53,853 --> 00:34:58,213 Speaker 3: For me, well, it'll be a vacuum of all Blacks 640 00:34:58,253 --> 00:35:01,173 Speaker 3: noise for the next few days because they're dispersed, and 641 00:35:01,253 --> 00:35:04,773 Speaker 3: we'll come back in next weekend to build for the Bledislow. 642 00:35:04,773 --> 00:35:07,773 Speaker 4: I've got two quick questions for you, all right, who 643 00:35:08,013 --> 00:35:09,573 Speaker 4: wins Rugby Championship from here? 644 00:35:11,413 --> 00:35:15,653 Speaker 3: I think South Africa two tests. Importantly, they don't have 645 00:35:15,693 --> 00:35:17,893 Speaker 3: to go to Argentina. That Test is being played at 646 00:35:17,893 --> 00:35:21,533 Speaker 3: in Twickenham. If they had to go to Argentina with 647 00:35:21,573 --> 00:35:24,053 Speaker 3: a travel that's on a tricky way to go from 648 00:35:24,453 --> 00:35:26,413 Speaker 3: South Africa. 649 00:35:27,693 --> 00:35:28,333 Speaker 2: I think they. 650 00:35:28,693 --> 00:35:31,373 Speaker 3: Probably went out against the Argentina and take both of 651 00:35:31,373 --> 00:35:34,253 Speaker 3: those games. With all due respect to Los Pomas, I 652 00:35:34,333 --> 00:35:36,853 Speaker 3: just think it's a hard road for them to get 653 00:35:36,893 --> 00:35:39,493 Speaker 3: to this point. So I hope South Africa winning it 654 00:35:39,653 --> 00:35:41,493 Speaker 3: from the all back. So I think we'll do enough 655 00:35:41,493 --> 00:35:45,093 Speaker 3: against the Wallabies. Wallaby's third and probably Argentina fourth. 656 00:35:45,253 --> 00:35:49,173 Speaker 4: But it's tight it is, and look that could be 657 00:35:49,413 --> 00:35:51,613 Speaker 4: a real stake in the ground performance from South Africa. 658 00:35:51,653 --> 00:35:54,533 Speaker 4: It felt like a generational swing and it's going to 659 00:35:54,573 --> 00:36:00,773 Speaker 4: be fascinating to see what Russia Rasmus does now he rested, dropped. 660 00:36:00,493 --> 00:36:01,933 Speaker 5: Whatever way you want to term it. 661 00:36:02,413 --> 00:36:06,933 Speaker 4: Damien de Linde, Jesse Crele ebenez Tebeth, Willie LaRue. 662 00:36:08,413 --> 00:36:10,773 Speaker 5: Are they done and dusted? Does he bring some of 663 00:36:10,813 --> 00:36:11,253 Speaker 5: them back? 664 00:36:11,813 --> 00:36:15,533 Speaker 4: Because you look at the way Damian Willenson played at 665 00:36:15,533 --> 00:36:17,853 Speaker 4: twelve and then and then fallback. How do you drop 666 00:36:17,893 --> 00:36:21,613 Speaker 4: a guy like that after that performance and some of 667 00:36:21,653 --> 00:36:25,973 Speaker 4: those proven box veterans are not capable of playing in 668 00:36:25,973 --> 00:36:26,373 Speaker 4: that manner. 669 00:36:26,453 --> 00:36:28,173 Speaker 3: No, but I think it's the horses for courses now 670 00:36:28,293 --> 00:36:30,893 Speaker 3: for us Erasmus and what he's done over the last 671 00:36:32,013 --> 00:36:34,573 Speaker 3: two games has gone we can play this way, we 672 00:36:34,613 --> 00:36:37,293 Speaker 3: can play that, and yep, you'll be able to pick 673 00:36:37,293 --> 00:36:39,333 Speaker 3: which way we're playing by the players we select. But 674 00:36:40,173 --> 00:36:42,173 Speaker 3: you know you got to try and defend it. And 675 00:36:42,293 --> 00:36:45,733 Speaker 3: I think that's a scary thing for opposition teams is 676 00:36:45,773 --> 00:36:49,333 Speaker 3: now the Sprinklers have found depth and not only personnel 677 00:36:49,333 --> 00:36:52,933 Speaker 3: but their game plans. And there's not a lot of 678 00:36:52,973 --> 00:36:54,213 Speaker 3: teams that I don't think in the world at the 679 00:36:54,253 --> 00:36:55,853 Speaker 3: moment that have a way to stop that. 680 00:36:56,933 --> 00:36:58,053 Speaker 5: Bill Lex are vulnerable. 681 00:36:58,813 --> 00:37:03,333 Speaker 4: Is this the best Wallabies chance at claiming the Bledders 682 00:37:03,373 --> 00:37:06,653 Speaker 4: though in five six plus. 683 00:37:06,493 --> 00:37:11,213 Speaker 3: Years, Yep, I think it is. We've seen the All 684 00:37:11,213 --> 00:37:14,733 Speaker 3: Blacks get a little bit bullied in recent times. I'm 685 00:37:14,773 --> 00:37:17,933 Speaker 3: not sure the Wallabies have the players like South Africa 686 00:37:18,093 --> 00:37:20,933 Speaker 3: to do that. I think if it gets into a 687 00:37:21,013 --> 00:37:24,933 Speaker 3: running game, the All Blacks should be better. If it 688 00:37:24,973 --> 00:37:27,333 Speaker 3: gets into a Ford contest, the All Blacks should be better. 689 00:37:27,813 --> 00:37:30,613 Speaker 3: But the Wallabies are playing entertaining and attacking rugby at 690 00:37:30,613 --> 00:37:34,053 Speaker 3: the moment and when they get a roll on, they're 691 00:37:34,133 --> 00:37:37,133 Speaker 3: very hard to stop. We saw that at Alice Park. 692 00:37:37,213 --> 00:37:41,173 Speaker 3: We saw it last week in that game in Townsville 693 00:37:41,213 --> 00:37:43,813 Speaker 3: where they came back from that deficit. We saw it 694 00:37:43,853 --> 00:37:45,693 Speaker 3: in the game yesterday where they came back from a 695 00:37:45,773 --> 00:37:50,453 Speaker 3: huge deficit as well and almost full ste a victory 696 00:37:50,453 --> 00:37:54,493 Speaker 3: despite a full pass. So they're they're close, the Wallabies, 697 00:37:54,653 --> 00:37:55,973 Speaker 3: so I think it is their best chance. 698 00:37:56,013 --> 00:37:56,413 Speaker 2: What say you? 699 00:37:57,213 --> 00:37:57,413 Speaker 3: Yeah? 700 00:37:57,413 --> 00:37:59,733 Speaker 4: I don't see them winning both games to win the 701 00:37:59,773 --> 00:38:02,373 Speaker 4: Bletters though, but I can see them getting won. And 702 00:38:03,453 --> 00:38:05,333 Speaker 4: what I would say about the Wallabies is there is 703 00:38:05,413 --> 00:38:08,933 Speaker 4: a real depth of character about their team. We saw 704 00:38:08,933 --> 00:38:11,533 Speaker 4: that Alice Park. We've seen that in those other comebacks. 705 00:38:11,733 --> 00:38:15,333 Speaker 4: They believe in themselves and they know the way they 706 00:38:15,333 --> 00:38:18,773 Speaker 4: want to play. They've got some phenomenal athletes and Joseph 707 00:38:18,813 --> 00:38:23,933 Speaker 4: Sui Lee the well led by Harry Wilson, and I 708 00:38:24,573 --> 00:38:30,013 Speaker 4: think they come over here unburdened, with a bit fearless 709 00:38:31,093 --> 00:38:34,493 Speaker 4: and they'll have a real crack And Joe Schmidt will 710 00:38:34,493 --> 00:38:38,013 Speaker 4: know this all black team well, so it's. 711 00:38:37,853 --> 00:38:39,893 Speaker 5: Going to be bloody interesting to see how that pans out. 712 00:38:39,973 --> 00:38:40,533 Speaker 2: Indeed it is. 713 00:38:40,573 --> 00:38:43,653 Speaker 3: Before we go, let's talk the Black fans and South Africa. 714 00:38:44,813 --> 00:38:45,013 Speaker 2: Look. 715 00:38:45,053 --> 00:38:48,853 Speaker 3: South Africa put the Black Funds under some real pressure 716 00:38:48,933 --> 00:38:52,813 Speaker 3: early on in that game, ten all at halftime, the 717 00:38:52,813 --> 00:38:55,973 Speaker 3: Black fans just a little bit too good after halftime, 718 00:38:56,133 --> 00:38:59,453 Speaker 3: but a wee bit of a scare from the women's 719 00:38:59,453 --> 00:39:02,813 Speaker 3: box side, who have risen dramatically in the world rankings 720 00:39:02,893 --> 00:39:07,253 Speaker 3: over the last couple of years. But the Black fans 721 00:39:07,293 --> 00:39:10,613 Speaker 3: just doing what they're needed to do after halftime. I 722 00:39:10,613 --> 00:39:12,773 Speaker 3: think Scott Robinson said this morning is almost the inverse 723 00:39:12,813 --> 00:39:17,173 Speaker 3: of their game from last night. How do you feel 724 00:39:17,213 --> 00:39:20,893 Speaker 3: their place for Canada next week? Giving Canada just wipe 725 00:39:20,933 --> 00:39:23,773 Speaker 3: the floor with Australia overnight, Probably. 726 00:39:23,493 --> 00:39:27,213 Speaker 4: A bit nervous, I think interesting to see the Black 727 00:39:27,293 --> 00:39:32,573 Speaker 4: woman having fifteen man mauls and following their male counterparts 728 00:39:32,573 --> 00:39:35,373 Speaker 4: of that sort of innovation. I thought the Black Ferns 729 00:39:35,413 --> 00:39:39,973 Speaker 4: was very, really strong defensively and that when they eventually 730 00:39:39,973 --> 00:39:42,133 Speaker 4: got some ball that they scored some nice tries, but 731 00:39:42,893 --> 00:39:44,893 Speaker 4: they were on the back foot for large parts of 732 00:39:44,933 --> 00:39:49,013 Speaker 4: that match and yeah, semi final. This is when the 733 00:39:49,013 --> 00:39:52,613 Speaker 4: tournament starts, isn't it. So I think I'm a wee 734 00:39:52,693 --> 00:39:53,533 Speaker 4: bit nervous for that game. 735 00:39:53,573 --> 00:39:55,973 Speaker 3: Well, Canada beat them last year, drew with them earlier. 736 00:39:56,173 --> 00:39:59,693 Speaker 3: This year, they've been put under Preshia Georgia Miller was 737 00:39:59,693 --> 00:40:03,973 Speaker 3: subbed off early in that game this morning, I think tactically, 738 00:40:04,013 --> 00:40:05,653 Speaker 3: but also probably to keep her on eyes for a 739 00:40:05,733 --> 00:40:07,893 Speaker 3: semi final once they got to a twenty points to 740 00:40:07,933 --> 00:40:10,893 Speaker 3: ten lead. She's talismatic for that team. But I thought 741 00:40:10,893 --> 00:40:13,853 Speaker 3: Alana Bremner started really really well overnight. A couple of 742 00:40:13,973 --> 00:40:18,773 Speaker 3: rampaging runs, a strong leadership across the park midfields and 743 00:40:18,853 --> 00:40:21,013 Speaker 3: is Shoe as well. With Amy Duplas ruled out of 744 00:40:21,053 --> 00:40:25,693 Speaker 3: the tournament, set a final on Waka Setafara went off overnight. 745 00:40:25,253 --> 00:40:28,973 Speaker 5: So great comeback from a couple of Wilson Baker as well. 746 00:40:29,013 --> 00:40:31,013 Speaker 3: So there's gonna be interesting reselection mixed four of the 747 00:40:31,013 --> 00:40:34,253 Speaker 3: Black Ferns this week and how they figure things out. 748 00:40:34,293 --> 00:40:35,453 Speaker 2: But we look forward to. 749 00:40:35,533 --> 00:40:38,813 Speaker 3: That game against Canada and yeah, let's fingers crossed that 750 00:40:38,893 --> 00:40:40,813 Speaker 3: the Black Fans get to a World Cup final. 751 00:40:41,413 --> 00:40:46,373 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, thoughts of that final three four years ago? Now, 752 00:40:46,413 --> 00:40:49,493 Speaker 4: that was an absolute doozy, so hoping for a rematch. 753 00:40:49,893 --> 00:40:52,813 Speaker 4: That'll be hell of an occasion, wouldn't it on English soil? 754 00:40:52,933 --> 00:40:54,653 Speaker 3: It would be indeed that I'll about to us for 755 00:40:54,693 --> 00:40:56,933 Speaker 3: rugby direct. But it's important to reflect on the ran 756 00:40:56,973 --> 00:40:59,333 Speaker 3: for the shield result before we do wrap up Canterbury 757 00:40:59,413 --> 00:41:03,373 Speaker 3: keeping it saved by the bell George Bell after the 758 00:41:03,573 --> 00:41:06,933 Speaker 3: siren gets them home, keeps the shield and it's rifle 759 00:41:06,973 --> 00:41:08,493 Speaker 3: home only sort of last two or three minute this 760 00:41:08,533 --> 00:41:11,373 Speaker 3: game once we go back from the airport, but topsy turvy. 761 00:41:11,853 --> 00:41:14,533 Speaker 3: The shields alive though, and for the first time in 762 00:41:14,573 --> 00:41:16,453 Speaker 3: four weeks it doesn't change provinces. 763 00:41:16,773 --> 00:41:20,493 Speaker 4: Yeah, great effort from the Marco and it's not what 764 00:41:20,573 --> 00:41:21,653 Speaker 4: the nation needed, is it? 765 00:41:21,813 --> 00:41:25,973 Speaker 5: The shield stage? So the dark day continues. 766 00:41:28,093 --> 00:41:31,053 Speaker 3: No, that was the sun coming through. I think Liam, 767 00:41:31,133 --> 00:41:34,653 Speaker 3: you'll find thank you ver much as always. Liam, you 768 00:41:34,733 --> 00:41:36,853 Speaker 3: are off next week, not to heal the voice, but 769 00:41:37,653 --> 00:41:40,413 Speaker 3: over aweys in America. 770 00:41:40,493 --> 00:41:41,653 Speaker 2: So have a good break. 771 00:41:41,773 --> 00:41:43,453 Speaker 5: Yeah, cheers, try and find some rest. 772 00:41:43,573 --> 00:41:45,533 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why we didn't have a podcast again last week. 773 00:41:45,573 --> 00:41:48,493 Speaker 3: We just thought we'd get Liam to rest the vocal cords. 774 00:41:48,613 --> 00:41:50,533 Speaker 3: Thanks to last and bars English. We will catch you 775 00:41:50,693 --> 00:41:51,213 Speaker 3: next week. 776 00:41:51,253 --> 00:41:51,693 Speaker 2: Where Are We? 777 00:41:51,813 --> 00:41:54,373 Speaker 3: Joined by Nick Bubley, who's going to slot in four 778 00:41:55,253 --> 00:41:58,013 Speaker 3: next week's podcast, we will catchure them. Thanks to access 779 00:41:58,053 --> 00:41:59,933 Speaker 3: solutions elevating you and your business to. 780 00:41:59,893 --> 00:42:00,493 Speaker 5: A higher level. 781 00:42:04,533 --> 00:42:07,453 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks B listen live on air 782 00:42:07,653 --> 00:42:10,333 Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you 783 00:42:10,413 --> 00:42:12,853 Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio