WEBVTT - Is ultra-processed food really that bad for us? 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:04.800 Hi, I'm Francisco Budkin and I'm Louise Arii and welcome 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.160 to the first episode of season six of our New 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.119 Zealand Here podcast, The Little Thing's Good to have you 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:12.200 with us. It is good to be back season six 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:14.680 exciting goodness me and this podcast. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:15.600 We talk to experts. 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.119 We find out all the little things you need to 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.799 know to improve different areas of your life. We can't 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.280 throw all the confusion and overload of the information out 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.280 there to kind of help simplify life and hopefully have 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:26.319 a little bit of fun while we're. 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:28.800 Doing exactly So, how was your summer alone? 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:29.600 Nice and simple? 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.880 You know it wasn't gosh. 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:33.760 You keep me very. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.080 Entertained over the summer as we followed you and your 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.479 car and your caravan as you tour it around the 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:39.240 South Island. 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.440 Yeah, here's a life hack. Okay, okay, just listen up. 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.280 Do not toe a caravan or boat behind a fully 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:52.440 electric vehicle. Not yet anyway. Maybe I don't know, Maybe 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:54.360 infrastructure will be there entire years to come. 0:00:54.560 --> 0:01:03.000 I say this lovingly, but is it that you know 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.760 caravan's put a toll on evs and you just naturally 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.759 find yourself kind of running out of battery and then 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:10.600 have to ditch a caravan and drive off to the 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:11.120 nearest town. 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.400 Or did you guys not really manage it? No, we 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:17.000 did it. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:19.960 My husband apparently did an awful lot of research. It 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.559 was pretty confident. Yeah, just didn't work out that way. Look, 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.080 it's all fine. We got to our destinations. We have 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.520 seen the absolute best of this country. We have not 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.479 done a roady like that in such a long time. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.000 The fairy was great. Everything about it was absolutely amazing. 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.360 So I do the upsiders. I would encourage anybody to, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:43.880 if they haven't done a roady for a while, to 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.760 just go out and look at the absolute beauty that 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.120 we have outside of our main centers. 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.760 And twenty twenty six started well for you and the 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:52.960 family sure did. 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.800 Yep, just back from a beautiful family wedding. It's all 0:01:55.800 --> 0:02:00.600 been very kind of surreal and lovely. What about you, well. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:02.600 Twenty twenty six marks a little bit of a change 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.760 in our household. So I am no longer the parent 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.280 of school children. That's right, which is I know some 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:14.160 people feel a little emotional and quite sad that that 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.000 phase of their life might be over, But it's been 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.119 nineteen years and I've loved it and made the most 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.400 of it, but I am very ready to move on. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.079 So that's very exciting. So ones at university and Auckland, 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.840 ones at University in Canterbury, and our youngest also just 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.560 got their driver's license, so now they are independent. You know, 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.720 you're no longer driving them to dance classes and various 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.440 other things. So it's quite exciting. But there's so much 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:44.920 time in the day. I am a little bit taken 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:46.799 back at how much time there is in the day 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.920 which I can now work and be productive and do things, which. 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:51.320 Is a good thing. 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.519 Yeah, but also I'm not quite match fit to make 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.000 the most of it. But I am very much looking 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:01.600 forward to having more time time to do more things, 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:07.079 to learning new things or doing things with my partner 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:08.960 or you know, just. 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:12.480 Been able to put yourself first a little. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:12.639 Well. 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.120 I know, as we all know, the kids don't stop 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.480 needing you and we don't stop providing for them. But 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.800 it's not the same time crunch, is it. So yeah, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.000 you're doing things for them, mostly giving them money to 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:30.080 be having long anguish conversations with the mother phone about something, 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.119 but it's not the day to day stuff. But take 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.720 ups and the drop offs and they. 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.960 Yeah, but I also think as parents we should actually 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.480 give ourselves a few more pats on the back more 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:46.360 often when you hit milestones like this, because educating a 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.160 child does not always straightforward. It can be a roller 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.920 coaster of a ride. There can be issues, academic issues, 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.080 environmental issues, social issues, all sorts of things. And you 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.800 have supported and nurtured that child through that process for 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.520 actually a substantial period of time, thirteen years each. You've 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.200 got three kids like you you're doing it for. 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:06.880 You're just going on and on and on. 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.160 And actually, I think while it is wonderful to see 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.080 them moving on to their next stage of their lives 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.479 and being independent and taking steps forward as well, sometimes 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.680 I think as parents we don't stop and kind of 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:21.120 give ourselves a little bit of a pad on the back, 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.560 a little bit of credit. We're going, Actually, we did that, 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.400 we got through. You know, sometimes it is worth just 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.760 stopping for a moment and kind of going, yeah. 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.080 Look, I've just been an absolutely amazing weekend with my 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.480 or my nephews and nieces and they're all adults, and 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.360 they're all beautiful, and they've all come through, and yeah, no, 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.359 I think we you know that is credit to the 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.640 appearance and the extended family support and all of that 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:46.160 kind of thing. 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.479 But a change out this can also be a bit 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:52.800 difficult on a relationship. Right, Like you had kids, You've 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:54.600 had busy lives. Your kids are part of your day 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:55.839 to day life, and all of a sudden as they 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.320 sort of start to leave, well they do become more independent. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.320 Relationship kind of changes as well. You find yourself sort 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:03.720 of sitting on the couch up at your partner going, oh, 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:04.880 it's just you and I home tonight. 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:06.200 You know, we're just just us. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:07.840 So one thing we are going to talk about this 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:13.280 season is how our relationship adjusts to the empty nest 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.920 and how we you know, move on in a new 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.400 sort of stage and phase in a relationship, which and 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.040 I'm quite looking forward to talking about that. 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:23.120 We'll do that this season. 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.440 It's definitely not just picking up where you left off 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.400 before your children. It's a completely different setting it even 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.000 ones in different places, aren't they. And we've all learn 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:34.120 learnt so much and been through so much. 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:35.720 What are you what else are you keen to talk 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:36.360 about this season? 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.159 Well, I've had a few people approach me about talking 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.080 about becoming a widow or a widow were we have 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.279 talked about separation and divorce, but that is not a 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.480 subject we've touched on before. And I actually think that's 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.799 really important. My own father found himself a widower at 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.680 in his mid forties with five children. My goodness, my 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.400 brother also found himself for whatever, and I have friends 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.760 who are widows, and I just think it is something 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.279 we we ought to address because we're going to know 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.640 somebody or it's going to happen to us or whatever. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.560 I just think it's another area that we should touch on, 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.680 not in a super doomy, gloomy way. You know, there's 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:19.320 some there's some recovery and joy and the process. I'm 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.000 also keen to talk about some less serious topics, like 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.159 what the heck's going on with everybody going skinny? That's 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:25.640 a bit weird. 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:29.159 Oh did you watch any of the awards ceremonies at 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:30.080 the beginning of the year. 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:31.320 And the globes just freaking me out. 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:32.600 I couldn't actually want people. 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.640 Who were small are now tiny. It's and it's I 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:38.920 find it's so upsetting and so frustrating. I mean, we're 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.280 both officially still got teenage daughters, and I thought we 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.520 were through this. I thought we had sort of passed 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:46.200 that period of time. 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:46.520 What was it? 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:50.440 The cape Moss said, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels, 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:52.760 and I thought we were through this and that, you know, 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.640 we were all a little bit more bodify, I know, and. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:06:59.920 It has been in my mind. I've seen that as well, 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.120 something else that we were both really keen to talk about. 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.680 This season, we always do an episode of nutrition, So 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.599 we're going to kick off the season by talking about 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.120 ultra process foods because I don't know if you noticed, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:16.040 but there seems to be endless headlines over summer about 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.920 ultra process foods, what you should and shouldn't be eating. Yeah, 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.000 I mean, neither of us are into dieting, and we 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.840 believe your diet can't be perfect all the time, but 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.200 we are interested in having a clearer picture of how 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.360 to eat for our health and what we should be 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.440 more mindful of consuming. So you know, when it comes 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.800 to process and ultra process food, what's okay and what 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.520 should we actively avoid. 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.520 So today, Professor Sarah Berry is with us. Sarah is 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.600 a professor in the Department of Nutritional Sciences at King's College, London, 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.760 and she is the chief scientist at ZOE. You may 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.000 be familiar with ZOE. They work to dispel nutrition myths 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.080 and misinformation, and we've been really lucky enough to speak 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:59.240 with founder Tim Spector and US medical director Will Bolschwitz 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.920 in previous episodes. Definitely with the listen. Sarah is at 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.920 the forefront of developments and personal nutrition and has been 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.280 in charge of some of the world's largest human nutrition studies. 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.120 Her work explores how foods impact metabolism, fat storage, and 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.160 long term health. And doctor Sarah Berry is with us. 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:17.600 Thank you so much for joining us. 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.239 Welcome pleasure, Thank you for having me. We're in totally 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.600 different time zones here. It's my Friday evening, and I'm 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.520 looking forward to a nice glass of wine after this. 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:29.840 Well, I'm looking forward to a last cup of coffee 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:30.200 after this. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.079 I know I'm sorry that we're holding you back from 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.160 that glass of wine for just a little bit longer, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.160 but we really do appreciate your time. Wondering if we 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.560 can start with quite a broad question, could you just 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.720 explain to us what our processed and ultra processed foods. 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.440 I kind of think that's a million dollar question, because 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.440 if I'm to go into a supermarket and identify is 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.000 that an ultra process food? Even though I've been a 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:01.720 nutitional scientist for twenty five yearsly struggle, So I think 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.640 let's strip it back to the basics. A process food 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.200 is basically any kind of food that has gone through 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.280 some sort of processing. So it could be the fact 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.920 that you've just cooked your carrots. You know that's a 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.080 form of processing because you've cooked them. But in the 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.680 current food landscape that we live in, we are actually 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.120 used the term very differently, and we typically use it 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.800 in the context of a classification system called the NOVA 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:32.480 classification system, which allocates a classifier according to whether it's unprocessed, 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:38.440 minimally processed. A processed culinary ingredient like a sort of 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:43.360 spice or something, or oil or something that's called an 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:48.640 ultra processed food, And an ultra processed food is a 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.480 classification system from this system called NOVA. It's a NOVA 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.960 for food. But it's a term that's really taken off 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.720 because it's been used in a lot of nutrition research 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.880 in order to class apply foods that have been heavily processed. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.600 But I think what's really really important to remember in 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.520 the whole discussion of ultra process food. And when we 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:11.600 look at the evidence and we look at these scary 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.960 headlines that are often out there about food processing, is 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.920 the term ultraprocessed food is specific to this classification system, 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:24.320 and this classification system is based on the extent and 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:28.120 the purpose of processing is a system that was never 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:32.400 designed to look at how processing might impact our health. 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.800 And so we see, for example, in the UK, the US, 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.920 Australia is becoming quite similar in New Zealand as well, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:43.160 that about sixty percent of our food comes from this 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.920 ultra process food. But it's such a huge category, and 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.839 you have within this category of or classification of ultra 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.440 process food some that, yes, are really bad, but some 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.000 that aren't so bad. So I think we kind of 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.720 need to take a step back and think, really, what 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:03.440 is set about food processing that's bad in order for 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.040 us to identify what we should be avoiding and what 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:07.160 we shouldn't be avoiding. 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.280 You made a really good point there by saying it's 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.079 it's not necessarily that, like you say, all processed foods 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.440 has been. It's what which ones in what type of 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.520 processing is having an inpect on our health, right because originally, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:29.440 you know, we evolved into processing foods for storage and 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.000 and to feed a growing population and all that sort 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.040 of thing, didn't we How has it evolved from there? 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:38.840 Yeah? Absolutely, And I think that's a really important point, 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.680 Lou that you make, is that processing came about for 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.520 the good. It's enabled us to produce enough food for 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.520 our growing population. It's enabled us to produce food that 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.400 is shelf stable and that is safe for us to consume. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:12:01.319 It's also enables us to really maximize the the food 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.400 from the crops that are out there and so forth, 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.000 and also enables us to produce food that is a 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.240 lot cheaper. And there's some fantastic research that was recently 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.000 published showing that if you look at all of the 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.920 food that are in US supermarkets, what you see is 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:23.600 an ultra processed or heavily processed version versus a minimally 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:28.040 processed version has about a fifty percent price differential, meaning, 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:33.480 for example, if you take a bread that a minimally processed, 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:38.240 more kind of Artisian style bread is actually about fifty 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.839 percent more expensive than one of the mass produced breads 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.400 that would be classed as ultra process And they saw 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.720 this across all of the different food groups, whether it 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.160 was yogurts, whether it's pastries, whether it's meat based products, etc. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.480 So we do need to be mindful that again in 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.719 this kind of demonization of ultra process food, in this 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.880 scare mongering that you see out there, that processing does 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.120 have a really important purpose and it does enable us 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.760 to also consume food that is more affordable for many people. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.400 So what we need to do is work on identifying 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.840 which of those foods are particularly bad for us, because 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.959 our research that we've done at Zoe actually shows that 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.680 it's probably only about twenty percent of our energy that's 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.719 coming from processed foods that we know are particularly unfavorable 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:25.320 for our health. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:27.040 So which ones are they? 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.959 Well, we do have a Zoe app that allows people 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.080 to have look and unfortunately it's not available yet in 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:39.320 New Zealand, but it's very much dependent on the brand 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.000 of the food and so and the kind of brands 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.480 that you have in the US. In New Zealand, sorry, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.040 it will be very different to the kind of brands 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.839 we have or we have in the US. So I 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.360 think the important thing is being able to help people 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.800 identify what is it about food in the way it's 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.640 processed that makes it unhealthy. But it's really really difficult, 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:03.280 and it's really difficult because processing impacts the healthfulness of food, 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:07.920 not just through the additives and emulsifiers that everyone's talking about, 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.840 but actually through lots of other mechanisms. So we know 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.680 that when you process food, and there's lots of different 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.240 ways we can process food, whether it's through heat processes, 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:22.440 whether it's through physical disruption of the food structure, whether 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.240 it's through predigesting the food. You know, there's so many 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.440 different ways that you can process the food. But what 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.720 we know is that impacts certain features that are related 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:36.320 to health. Firstly, we know that typically heavily processed foods 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:40.840 tends to have less nutritious nutrients or less healthy nutrients. 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.720 By this, it tends to have less fiber, it tends 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.120 to have more unhealthy nutrients, so it tends to have 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.440 more salt, more saturated fat, more sugar. It also tends 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:54.200 to have less bioactives. And these are chemicals that are 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.680 found in foods that we know have really magical properties 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.600 in improving our health. So you might have heard a 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:04.400 polyph phenols for example, it comes from dark figmented pigmented berries, 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.560 you know, and these have really fantastic properties in terms 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.040 of you know, acting on anti inflammatory pathways and so forth. 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.360 So processed foods tend to have less of those bioactives 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.640 as well, they tend to have less nutritious nutrients. Then 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.440 they do tend to have lots of additives, lots of emulsifiers. 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:24.440 So yes, you can look at the back of pack 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.880 and you can look at two foods and you could say, whoa, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.080 hold on, here's a peanut butter. Here's one that just 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.080 literally has peanuts, maybe a pinch of salt and a 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.800 pinch of sugar. And then here's a peanut butter like 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.920 in the America, for example, as Reese's peanut butter, which 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.600 unfortunately my kids love. You know, yes, it's got about 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.200 thirty ingredients. It's got loads of E numbers, which are 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:50.600 basically numbers that are allocated to emulsifiers and additives. So 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.160 that gives you a good hint that hold on, maybe 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.160 that's not so healthy. But in my opinion, that's only 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:58.960 part of the picture, and that we need to look 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.960 at other features. One of those features is hyperpalatability, which 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:07.720 is basically how tasty that food is. And another feature 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:12.120 is the food structure, the food matrix, which is destroyed 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.800 in processing, which impacts how fast you eat that food, 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:21.080 where the nutrients are absorbed, how much of the nutrients 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:21.720 you're absorbed in. 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.880 So much more have our palets changed, though, I mean, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:31.120 I'm curious about that phrase hyperpalatability, because have we been 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:35.800 somehow you know, so exposed for so long to processed 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.240 foods and added salt, metatugar and things like that that 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.560 we've you know, that would have to remove ourselves completely 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.040 to sort of reset our palets. 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.160 Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question, and I 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:51.280 think it's it's true that, you know, the food that 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:53.720 we're now exposed to you is not the food that 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:58.200 we have physiologically been evolved to handle. The rate at 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.560 which the food is changing, you know, it is so 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.960 fast we cannot evolve at the same rate that the 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:09.760 food landscape is changing that the processing techniques are changing. 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.920 And there's many many foods now that are designed by 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.720 the food industry to have a mix of nutrients that 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:23.560 we know bypass our natural physiological, neurological responses. So these 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.600 are foods that will be particularly high in maybe salt 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.960 and sugar, or salt and fat, or fat and sugar 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.720 that you wouldn't typically find in nature. So let's take 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.560 crisps for example. Crisps have a reasonable amount of fat 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.679 and they have a reasonable amount of salt. Now, you 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.959 wouldn't typically find that same amount of salt and that 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.119 same amount of fat in a natural product that's not 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:52.280 naturally in the potatoes. But by putting them together, it's 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.800 almost kind of like bypasses our natural sensory system that 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.200 tells us, well, hold on, you've eaten enough, you don't 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.639 need anymore. Instead, what it's doing is activating the reward 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.560 system in our brain, a bit like giving us some 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.600 kind of mini dopamine hits and saying, oh my god, 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.240 this is so tasty. Keep eating, keep eating, keep eating, 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.840 so that you tend to over eat hyper palatable foods. 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.400 And there's quite a bit of evidence showing that, yes, 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.239 you tend to overeat them, and people that have more 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.000 of these hyper palatable foods put on more weight. And 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.320 so I think that's one really interesting area where you know, 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:29.240 we're now so accustomed to having these foods that what 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.600 do we do, How do we go back to experiencing 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.800 pleasure from that potato, for example, without all of that salt? 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.119 And there are studies showing that yes, you can retrain 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.480 your taste fuds, et cetera. But what's difficult is when 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.639 you go into your supermarket, when you go to your 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:49.399 corner shop or your high street and everything there or 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.000 what we know in the UK and the US, for example, 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.040 is about sixty percent and I don't know in that 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.600 their stats in New Zealand, but sixty percent of the 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:01.320 food is probably hyper palatable. And so when you're faced 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.800 with all of this, it's really difficult to make those 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.400 healthy choices and think, oh my gosh, I know that's tasty, 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.680 but hey, let me try and find something that's less tasty, 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.800 because I know it's for healthy. I can't be that good. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:15.879 I tell you what, when I have my wine after this, 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.920 I'll be some nice salt and vinegar crisps with it. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.240 I just love that expression. Palatable. 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:23.600 I'm going to get you know, ex time someone got 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:25.440 to be meal our God, this is hyper palatable. 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:26.320 Thank you so much. 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:33.160 Hey, we should probably talk about about why we're actually 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.560 even talking about ultra process foods in the first place, 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:37.879 and the impact that they have on our health and 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.320 our metabolism. I mean, what do we know about the 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:41.560 impact that they're having on us. 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.920 So you'll probably see every day in the newspaper there's 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.480 a different headline saying ultra process foods they're killing us. 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.679 They're causing everything from as i'monster cancer to heart disease, 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:58.119 to diabetes, everything you name it, it's linked with. Yes, 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.360 we know the ultra process food are unhealthy for us. Yes, 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.160 there's lots of evidence showing their link to increase risk 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.840 of all of these different chronic diseases. But I think 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.480 what we need to be mindful of is the evidence 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.440 is typically coming from either these longitudinal studies or cross 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.560 sexual studies where you take large populations, you follow them 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.880 over a period of time, you look at what their 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.640 diet is at you know, maybe five ten year intervals, 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.960 and then you look who goes on to get what 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.919 type of disease. Now, that's a really important way that 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.000 we get a first hint of what's going on in 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.320 terms of diet and in terms of disease. But for 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.639 that kind of research, we typically use food frequency questionnaires, 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:44.320 which asks quite crude questions. So it would ask, for example, 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.480 do you have peanut butter or not. It wouldn't say 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.000 do you have recess peanut butter or this healthy peanut butter. 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:56.560 It can't differentiate between brands. So yes, there is data 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:58.800 to show the old process food at linked with health. 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:00.880 But what we now know is that not all ultra 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.960 processed foods are linked in the same way and to 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.960 the same degree. And so there is some research that's 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.000 broken down quite crude categories that you can still do 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.320 through food frequency questionnaires that show that if you look 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.639 at the link between old processed food intaken an individual 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.960