1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: And this is interesting when the text says the issue, 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: of course with the dollar being down is that it's 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: great for exporters and we're an export based economy. Meanwhile, 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: everyone else feels the pain. And that's true. The domestic 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: economy feels the pain. The dollar goes down, the picture 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: prices go up, it costs forever to it costs an 7 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: enormous amount to run the car, and all other things 8 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: because remember everything depends on energy. Right Anyway, the text 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: goes on and says central government will never change their 10 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: stance because it helps boost GDP and boost tax receipts. 11 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: And this is the sort of frustration which sends people 12 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: who are not involved in the export industry and are 13 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: not making money from the lower dollar. That's the sort 14 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: of thing that sends people overseas. And I read that 15 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: text out because I want to talk about energy. The 16 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: energy sector drives an economy, and the energy sector has 17 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: a new minister and they're hoping that that new minister 18 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: will have new solutions to the country's energy crisis. So 19 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: we've got electricity prices continuing to rise, we've got no 20 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: solution found for looming gas shortage so far, and we 21 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: have a new Climate Change Minister and it's Simon Wat's 22 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: from the North Shore. He picks up the energy portfolio 23 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: from Simon Brown. So let's talk about this. I'm joined 24 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: by Octopus Energy Chief operating Officer Margaret Cooney right now, 25 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: Happy New year. 26 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 2: Margaret, thanks for giving me. 27 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: It's a pleasure. So the energy crisis, where is it 28 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: from your point of view? Oh? 29 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: Look, it's still going I think as we're touring the 30 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: Smber when the GDP numbers came out, electricity costs are 31 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: having a real drag on the economy and productivity. So 32 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: the issue the dry year has gone from last year, 33 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: but issue of high prices impacting New Zealand businesses and 34 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: householders is an ongoing issue. 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so what's the answer? I know, I know, I mean, 36 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: we all know this is the problem with it. So 37 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: many things we can all point out the problem beautifully. 38 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: The question is what is the answer? 39 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I think the good thing is that New 40 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: Zealand really doesn't need to reinvent the wheel here. The 41 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: OFCD have identified that basically we need to do some 42 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: reforms to support competition in the sector. So one of 43 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: the things that the Minister has highlighted is that there 44 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: is a reform agenda that's needed an energy and it's 45 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: really action in that. So we know already that the 46 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 2: current energy prices are well above the cost of new generation. 47 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 2: So all we need is new generation coming into market 48 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 2: also settings that support much more innovation. So we have 49 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: seen abroad just the massive impact that entry from new 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:51,679 Speaker 2: generation investors and retailers like ourselves is having on energy markets. 51 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: And I think, you know, there's a bad news story 52 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: at the moment around energy, but there should be a 53 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: lot of hope and confidence that some reform we can 54 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: actually make sure that the New Zealand economy is driven 55 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: by the energy sector and it's no longer an Achilles heal. 56 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: So when we talk about new generation, if you're going 57 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: to talk about a DAN, that's going to take forever, 58 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: even no matter how much fast tracked legislation comes in. 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: The resource consenting and the engineering is extraordinary. If you're 60 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: going hydro, then you've got to cause wind, and you've 61 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: got geothermal, et cetera, and you've got solar. You know, now, really, 62 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: do we have enough extra generation there to actually cope 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: with what we already use in terms of energy and 64 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: what we hope to use in energy to further far 65 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: on growth. 66 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: There is quite a substantial pipeline of potential generation development sites. 67 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: Part of the problem is that lots of these new 68 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: entrant generators actually can't get the projects off the ground 69 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: because they can't get the contracts of counterparties because the 70 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: market side locked up. So it's really just reforming that 71 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: piece to unleash a level of investment that's needed to 72 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: help scale the sector and also decarbonize the sector as well. 73 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: Everyone loves to talk about the oil and gas exploration. 74 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: Of course we didn't promote it. We didn't actually stir 75 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: it on by banning it. That was bad for business, 76 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: and of course people didn't want to put money into 77 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: that sort of business if they're going to see a 78 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: government banning and then unbanning oil and gas exploration. But 79 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: also before that even happened, we were finding it difficult 80 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: to find any new sources. So where do you think 81 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: that Where do you think we are in that area, 82 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: in that sector of the sector. 83 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: Look, I think there are a whole number of issues 84 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: around the gas sector. There hasn't been enough exploration to 85 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 2: bring on new supply. That's an obvious issue. There's much 86 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: debate about the Crown Minerals Act as well, So I 87 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: don't think we should expect huge changes there in the 88 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 2: short term. It is a gas is ultimately like kind 89 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: of ten year horizon to invest in it and find it. 90 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: But I think one of the things we should place 91 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 2: a lot more hoping is actually the potential of other 92 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: technologies to fill the gap that has previously been filled 93 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: by gas. So we are seeing massive reductions in the 94 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 2: cost of of grid scale batteries, and so the combination 95 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: of building out those renewables like solar that's falling and 96 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 2: putting batteries in that is another solution. 97 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, absolutely, But of course then they become dependent 98 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: on the rare earth minerals that then also start to 99 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: run out, and you have a run out there as well. 100 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: I mean, really, what humankind needs to find is a 101 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: cheap and reliable and perpetually renewing energy source. Have you 102 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: heard of any of those ladies. 103 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 2: We've got a New Zealand based nuclear fusion operation so 104 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: Ocean Star, So maybe there's hope in that. 105 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: Really, is that where we're at? Because I'm hearing this 106 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: in America as well, I think they are saying they 107 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: are saying, look, we've got an energy crisis in America 108 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: and look how much oil we've got. But so so 109 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: they are really saying we have not maximized nuclear technology. 110 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think more immediately for New Zealand, biling 111 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: out renewables and batteries are an option lot. Guess in 112 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: the medium term maybe, but there's there's a few hurdles there. 113 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: I think. 114 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: The other big thing to highlight is that for households, 115 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 2: adopting solar is becoming increasingly economic. So the payback on 116 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: the solar system now is around five to seven years, 117 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: and you know, beyond that period, it's not like a couch, 118 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 2: it actually starts making new money. So as the one 119 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: thing which we do need to do expanding our energy supply, 120 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: you know, I would strongly encourage everyone who has the 121 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: access to money or a low interest loan to look 122 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: at solar because you know, it really really does stack up. 123 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: All right, Margaret Cooney, I thank you so much. 124 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: Now. 125 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: Margaret is the Octopus Energy Chief operating Officer. 126 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 127 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: news talks. 128 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: They'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 129 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.