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Speaker 1: Kiota.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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Speaker 2: daily podcast.

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Speaker 1: Presented by the New Zealand Herald.

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Speaker 2: You ever get the feeling New Zealand just doesn't know

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Speaker 2: how to build houses properly. We had the leaky Homes crisis,

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Speaker 2: where timber framed homes built from nineteen eighty eight two

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Speaker 2: thousand and four were not fully weather tight, and now

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Speaker 2: construction experts are warning that tens of thousands of Auckland

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Speaker 2: families will suffer in overheating terraced houses until designs change.

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Speaker 2: Terraced houses are being built at pace in Auckland, with

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Speaker 2: even more expected after the government mooted fifty five thousand

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Speaker 2: new ones to be fast tracked through the consent process.

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Speaker 1: Today on the Front Page, we're.

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Speaker 2: Joined by New Zealand Green Building Council Business Development Manager

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Speaker 2: Matthew Cutler Welsh to dig into what's gone wrong with

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Speaker 2: these new homes. Matthew, I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: listening will know someone who is suffering from these hot houses.

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Speaker 2: I can name five people in my office alone. But

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Speaker 2: what exactly is the issue here?

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Speaker 3: Well, there are a couple of issues. One is the

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Speaker 3: input and the fact that our climate is warming up,

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Speaker 3: it's getting warmer, But fundamentally, the other issue is how

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Speaker 3: our houses are designed to respond to that, which is,

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Speaker 3: in short, not well. Because we've kind of optimized to

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Speaker 3: keep warm and we love getting lots of sunlight in

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Speaker 3: the winter, and that's good. We want that, we want

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Speaker 3: daylight and we want warmth, but we also don't want

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Speaker 3: to overheat, and we don't have anything in the building

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Speaker 3: code that prevents that.

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Speaker 1: How widespread do you think this problem actually is.

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Speaker 4: It's prolific.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've got we're coming off the peak of

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Speaker 3: fifty thousand building consent applications a.

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Speaker 4: Couple of years ago.

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Speaker 3: That has dropped off, but we're talking tens of thousands

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Speaker 3: of Kiwi families that are at risk of going into

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Speaker 3: homes that are not going to be fit for purpose.

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Speaker 3: They're going to be very hot and very uncomfortable. So

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Speaker 3: it's been happening for quite a while. We've known about it,

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Speaker 3: and there's not really anything in place to prevent it

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Speaker 3: from continuing to happen.

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Speaker 1: What are some of.

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Speaker 2: The design flaws that are causing these houses to overheat

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Speaker 2: or not easily cool down.

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Speaker 3: The fundamental cause of the issue is that lack of

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Speaker 3: requirement to consider overheating in the building code, and how

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Speaker 3: that comes to reality is a lot of overglazing. As

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Speaker 3: I said, we've focused a lot on the view and

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Speaker 3: getting daylight into homes, and that is a good thing,

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Speaker 3: but we tend to overglaze a lot of our houses

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Speaker 3: and we don't have adequate shading. If you look at

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Speaker 3: a lot of older homes, homes from sort of fifty

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Speaker 3: to one hundred or more years ago, our sort of

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Speaker 3: colonial homes, a lot of those had quite small windows

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Speaker 3: and big verandahs, and we've gone to a much more.

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Speaker 4: If you think of a modern house.

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Speaker 3: It might not have any eve on the roof, it

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Speaker 3: might have a flat roof, and it might have a

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Speaker 3: huge amount of glazing. I've got lots of photos that

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Speaker 3: I've taken of houses that the entire front of the

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Speaker 3: house is almost all glass. So dramatically changed the way

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Speaker 3: we design and build our homes, and that's had a

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Speaker 3: big influence on overheating.

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Speaker 5: So it was the start of twenty twenty two when

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Speaker 5: I moved into like one of these new built houses

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Speaker 5: that's just a row of flats, and the day we

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Speaker 5: were moving in, which was like the middle of summer,

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Speaker 5: it was getting up to forty five degrees upstairs in

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Speaker 5: the middle of the day, and then by time you're

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Speaker 5: trying to fall asleep in this new house, it was

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Speaker 5: still like thirty degrees.

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Speaker 6: The house does have what was we were told was

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Speaker 6: like a temperature regulation sort of system, but essentially it's

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Speaker 6: just this fan that you have running twenty four to seven,

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Speaker 6: which does essentially nothing other than have a little led

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Speaker 6: screen on the wall so you can get an accurate

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Speaker 6: reading of what just how hot it is in the house.

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Speaker 2: I've seen you describe this issue as being locked in.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 3: If you're going for that modern aesthetic. A lot of

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Speaker 3: these homes are going to be around for at least

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Speaker 3: fifty years, often longer, and it's very hard to retrofit.

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Speaker 3: You're not going to people don't intend to take out

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Speaker 3: or reduce the size of the windows or add in

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Speaker 3: eves to a house. It's part of the esthetic of

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Speaker 3: the home, it's part of the overall design, and it's

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Speaker 3: very costly and it just wouldn't really work to retrofit

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Speaker 3: some of the changes that would really make the difference

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Speaker 3: to the performance. Now there are retrofrared options, but if

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Speaker 3: you're starting from a place that is really suboptimal, then

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Speaker 3: that can be really tricky to get a cost effective solution.

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Speaker 2: Construction Minister Chris Pank told The Herald that he regularly

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Speaker 2: hears concern from the public about new homes overheating, and

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Speaker 2: that these concerns were a key reason why he's asked

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Speaker 2: officials to investigate the new H one energy efficiency settings.

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Speaker 1: Earlier in the year or earlier this year. What does

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Speaker 1: this mean?

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Speaker 3: Well, a bit of a mixed message there, and in

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Speaker 3: the consultation document in the most recent rounds, the Minister

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Speaker 3: did quite a good job of emphasizing that insulation does

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Speaker 3: not cause overheating, and we've used the example.

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Speaker 4: Of a chili ban.

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Speaker 3: Chiliban is very well insulated and it's used to keep

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Speaker 3: things cool. A well insulated container will keep things warm

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Speaker 3: just as well as it will keep things cool. There's

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Speaker 3: a bit of a confusion there potentially around H one

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Speaker 3: because H one at the moment is seen as an

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Speaker 3: insulation standard.

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Speaker 4: It's actually not.

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Speaker 3: It's an energy efficiency standard, but it doesn't have anything

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Speaker 3: in there at the moment that requires designers to consider

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Speaker 3: the cooling load in the summertime, and that's what we

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Speaker 3: really need to be added, and that's why we're advocating

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Speaker 3: for energy modeling as.

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Speaker 4: Opposed to just a calculation or.

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Speaker 3: Definitely getting rid of the schedule method, which is the

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Speaker 3: current proposal, because energy modeling does allow designers to essentially

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Speaker 3: forecast that risk of overheating.

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Speaker 2: If you go back twenty odd years, there was a

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Speaker 2: period in New Zealand known as the Leaky Homes Crisis,

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Speaker 2: where thousands of houses and department buildings built over a

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Speaker 2: twenty six year period were not properly weather tie, causing

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Speaker 2: them to leak. Why do we keep having these issues

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Speaker 2: with our houses? Are we just really bad at building them?

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Speaker 4: We've got some really good builders in New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we have a bit of a piecemeal approach to

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Speaker 3: how we change and evolve our building code and that's

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Speaker 3: led to it being lagging when we look at other

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Speaker 3: comparable countries around the world. So even Australia now has

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Speaker 3: updated their building code to require consideration of cooling demand

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Speaker 3: during summer, so when they're doing their equivalent of our

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Speaker 3: age one, it's more involved and it requires a consideration

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Speaker 3: of how the house will perform during winter, but also

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Speaker 3: how we will perform during summer we've sort of laid behind,

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Speaker 3: and others have commented that a lot of our clauses

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Speaker 3: they don't interrelate very well because if you change one

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Speaker 3: thing like increase the amount of ventilation, and we have

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Speaker 3: also increased things like improved our windows, but we haven't

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Speaker 3: done some other things to cater for better ventilation. And

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Speaker 3: we haven't required anything around looking at overglazing or a

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Speaker 3: lack of external shading to reduce the sole hegate of

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Speaker 3: our windows. So it really comes down to our our

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Speaker 3: building code just not really getting updated.

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Speaker 2: Auckland Council's monthly Housing Update data for November showed seventy

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Speaker 2: percent of building consents for dwellings were for townhouses, apartments, flats,

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Speaker 2: units or other attached properties. Right, those are the ones

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Speaker 2: I guess we're all seeing pop up, you know, the

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Speaker 2: ones about five townhouses on what used to be one

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Speaker 2: on one block. Do you think the rapid pace of

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Speaker 2: construction has meant there are people cutting corners?

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Speaker 3: Well, I said before, I think there's some really good

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Speaker 3: builders out there. Certainly, if there are pressures and opportunity

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Speaker 3: for making profits, then that there is that risk of

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Speaker 3: people cutting quarters. I think as long as we have

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Speaker 3: quite a low standard, then there are going to be

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who just aim to build to

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Speaker 3: that low standard and maximize their short term profits. And

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Speaker 3: the only way we're going to fix that is to

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Speaker 3: bring up those minimum requirements in the code and how

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Speaker 3: the code is implemented, because when we talk about the code,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of really good objectives and a good

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Speaker 3: aims of the building code, but it kind of falls

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Speaker 3: down when it comes to the implementation of the individual

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Speaker 3: clauses with how we allow things to comply.

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Speaker 2: And could that be a problem with the fact that

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Speaker 2: all these homes are being built to a certain type.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess you walk through some neighborhoods around

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Speaker 2: Auckland these days and every new build home looks identical

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Speaker 2: to the twenty.

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Speaker 1: On either side of it. Or is that just a

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Speaker 1: styling issue.

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Speaker 3: It's partly a signing issue, but it's also figuring out

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Speaker 3: how to meet those minimum requirements and make a good

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Speaker 3: profit and move on to the next project within the

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Speaker 3: constraints that are there. And if those constraints don't require

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Speaker 3: any attention to overglazing and lack of shading, then that's

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Speaker 3: what's going to be produced. Because people maximizing their return

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Speaker 3: on what they can get for an investment in a

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Speaker 3: particular piece of land, So that's maximizing the floord area,

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Speaker 3: maximizing those things that most developers are very well attuned

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Speaker 3: to what's appealing in the real estate market, and unfortunately

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Speaker 3: the market doesn't necessarily appreciate or understand what's lacking in

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Speaker 3: the building code to know that some of those might

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Speaker 3: look great in the picture, but come the first middle

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Speaker 3: of the winter and the middle of the following summer

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Speaker 3: might actually be not comfortable or even not really fit

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Speaker 3: for the purpose.

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Speaker 7: If you build a normal house to the building code,

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Speaker 7: a building code basically stipidates that you must design it

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Speaker 7: so that life is protected. And in order to protect life,

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Speaker 7: basically what you're talking about is making sure that the

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Speaker 7: roof and the walls don't fall down on top of

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Speaker 7: someone during an earthquake. That doesn't mean that your house

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Speaker 7: is livable after the event. It just means that during

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Speaker 7: the event, it's not going to kill you. It's a

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Speaker 7: fairly short sighted design criteria.

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Speaker 2: So best case scenario, the building code gets changed and

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Speaker 2: builders are forced to think about how these houses operate

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Speaker 2: not only in winter, but in summer. As well, what

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Speaker 2: happens in retrospect with all these thousands and thousands of

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Speaker 2: homes already having been built. I'm using an insulation as

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Speaker 2: an example. It's easy to get that into the walls

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Speaker 2: and into the roof. But what happens if the code changes?

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Speaker 2: Will people before to change the design of their homes?

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Speaker 3: No, but even before that happens. I mean, one of

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Speaker 3: the things that we offer now is the ability for

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Speaker 3: the relatively cost effective modeling, and that's why home Star

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Speaker 3: has included energy modeling for all new homes. So we

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Speaker 3: would encourage people to do that regardless and in the

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Speaker 3: intervening time, because it's going to take a while for

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Speaker 3: these changes to eventually come through to the building code.

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Speaker 3: Once that does and we improve our building code, that's

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Speaker 3: going to be great in terms of retrofitting all of

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Speaker 3: the existing housing stock. That's a really good point because

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Speaker 3: we have over a million homes that exist in New

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Speaker 3: Zealand and they are a problem. There is no easy fix.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be a bit of a case by case.

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Speaker 3: There are some general things that can be done to

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Speaker 3: help improve the comfort of those existing homes, and that's

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Speaker 3: going to be things like looking at external shading. We

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Speaker 3: don't really do much in the way of external shading

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Speaker 3: here and that is becoming more popular in places like Australia.

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Speaker 3: We are seeing a prolific We've seen a proliferation of

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Speaker 3: heat pumps for a long period of time in New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: People are realizing that those are equally useful in summer

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Speaker 3: time as well as winter, and that has potential issues

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Speaker 3: around energy use.

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Speaker 4: But there are going.

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Speaker 3: To be lots of people wanting to figure out how

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Speaker 3: to make their existing homes more comfortable and.

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Speaker 1: What are some other ways where we can make homes

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Speaker 1: more comfortable.

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Speaker 2: Because I've got a mate who is being forced to

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Speaker 2: sleep in their downstairs lound room because upstairs is just unbearable.

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Speaker 1: In the house that he's living in, So what are

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Speaker 1: some ways.

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Speaker 3: So external shading is a lot more effective than internal blinds. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: it's a little bit trickier to do, particularly.

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Speaker 4: If you're a renter.

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Speaker 3: It's harder to get things done to the house that's

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Speaker 3: on the outside of the house. But if you can

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Speaker 3: stop the heat getting in, that's way way more effective.

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Speaker 3: If that's not an option, then there are some blockout

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Speaker 3: blinds and things that can that help with that comfort.

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Speaker 3: Once the heat's in the home, it's very very hard

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Speaker 3: to get rid of. So fans do help, and if

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Speaker 3: they can be used to move air around.

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Speaker 4: Particularly if you are able to.

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Speaker 3: Get some crossflow into the home, that can often help

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Speaker 3: as well. But like I said, we are seeing people

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Speaker 3: rely more and more on heat pumps because once a

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Speaker 3: home heats up and you're just moving warm air around,

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Speaker 3: then you really need to get some mechanical calling in

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Speaker 3: there unfortunately as well.

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Speaker 1: Right, and that's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Hey, if you are renting, you can't ask your landlord

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Speaker 2: to do anything about it because it is minimum standard.

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Speaker 1: They're meeting the minimum standard.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: And I guess that's another downfall of the Healthy Home standards,

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Speaker 3: which a lot of people will be familiar with. Those

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Speaker 3: are geared towards moisture and ventilation and heating, but there's

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Speaker 3: nothing in there that requires a landlord to address any

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Speaker 3: concerns around overheating and keeping the place cool, the ability

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Speaker 3: to keep the place cool in summertime.

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Speaker 1: Is this just a sign of the times now.

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Speaker 2: I don't mean to bring up climate change, but I

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Speaker 2: guess we've never really, we've always been concerned about keeping

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Speaker 2: our houses warm This is kind of the first tranch

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Speaker 2: of conversations I've seen about keeping our houses cool in

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Speaker 2: New Zealand.

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Speaker 4: I think it's completely appropriate to bring up climate change.

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Speaker 4: This reality.

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Speaker 3: We're seeing record years of higher temperatures.

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Speaker 4: We've heard just this week.

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Speaker 3: That the number of days that we're going to experience

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Speaker 3: very hot temperatures is set to quadruple in New Zealand

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Speaker 3: over the next sixty years. Added to that different urban

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Speaker 3: environment we're getting with more intensification, we're getting more of

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Speaker 3: that urban heat island effect as well. And combine that

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Speaker 3: with those things that we've talked about, with the changes

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Speaker 3: of the esthetic of homes and not having eves and

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Speaker 3: larger glazing areas.

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Speaker 4: It's all sort of cumminating.

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Speaker 3: We've got this perfect storm of increased energy coming into

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Speaker 3: our homes, our homes not preventing that heat from getting

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Speaker 3: in as much as they would have done perhaps in

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Speaker 3: the past when we had a different style of windows.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it is set to get worse if we

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Speaker 3: don't use approaches like energy modeling that we have available

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Speaker 3: through from the Green Building Council.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Matthew Coda.

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Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of The Front Page You

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Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

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Speaker 2: at enzadhrald dot co dot MZ. The Front Page is

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Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

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Speaker 2: our sound engineer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.

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Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or whereck you

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another

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Speaker 2: look behind the headlines.