1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: We find the Prime Minister in Europe this morning ahead 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: of the latest NATO meeting Crystal luctions with us. Very 3 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: good morning to you morning Mike. 4 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: How are you today? 5 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Very well? And do before we get to NATO itself 6 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: related matters that Iran, How worried are you? 7 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 2: Oh? Look, I mean it is worrying. We really need 8 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: to see sort of diplomacy and dialogue take place, because 9 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: that's the way you get a political solutions. What's needed. 10 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: They're not more military action, frankly across the Middle East 11 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: and yeah, it's you know, it's an area ridden with conflict, 12 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: and it's of course huge amounts of pain are suffering 13 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: for lots of people. But if you want peace and 14 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: stability in that region, you've got to be able to 15 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: get the parties to get around the table and have 16 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: a negotiation and hopefully now that's what can happen in 17 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 2: the next few days and weeks. 18 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: Do you worry about things like the who moves straight? 19 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: And the price of oil and inflation and the effect 20 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: on the economy, yep. 21 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: I mean all of those things are possibilities. But you 22 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: know what, we've got to encourage the regional players and 23 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: actors to do and you know, let's acknowledge we're a 24 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: small country that's a long long way away from this conflict. 25 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: But you know, it is in the world's interest to 26 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: see stability in the region. And but you know, more frankly, 27 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: more military action isn't the way to deliver that. You 28 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: actually need to get the parties to want to come 29 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: to the table. And you know, that's what I think 30 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: everyone's exalting the parties and players to do post the 31 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: strikes that we've seen over the last twenty four hours. 32 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: So that's the opportunity now in front of the players 33 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: to say, well, you know, you know, if you want, 34 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: you've got to get to a political solution. Ultimately, that 35 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: means you've got to show up and actually have a 36 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 2: negotiation and engage in some dialogue to do. 37 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: So, do you support what the Americans did? 38 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: Well, again, what we want to see in the Middle 39 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: East is not Iran with a nuclear weapon. We don't 40 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 2: want to see, you know, Israel occupying Gaza. We don't 41 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: want to see how mass holding on to hostages. You know, 42 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 2: in all of those cases, the chances to sort of 43 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: now get on and get into proper negotiations to get 44 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: the region calmed down and stable. Otherwise you're going to 45 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: have endless military action and constant conflicts and it's going 46 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: to cause huge You know, we've already seen the you 47 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: just look at garz and like I mean, ninety four 48 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: percent of the hospitals are destroyed. Percent of the people 49 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: that displaced one in five in our facing famine. So 50 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 2: you know, you've got to be able to get round 51 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: a table and have a sensible conversation, as difficult as 52 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: that will be, Let's be clear, it'd be very difficult. 53 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 2: But you know, carrying on the way that things are 54 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: is not the way through those issues. 55 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: All right, Let's go back to China. Eight hundred and 56 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: seventy one million dollars worth of business, which I'm glad 57 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: because all I heard was a little bit of visa tweaking, 58 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: and in one of the Chinese airlines are putting more 59 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: seats on what business did we do with who, when's 60 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: its start and who are they? 61 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, so look, here's a good example. You've got about 62 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: five hundred million people in the middle classes over there. 63 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: You've got a massive cosmetic sector and New Zealand's cosmetics 64 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: companies and brands haven't been able to sell into China 65 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: in part because we've got a different approach to animal testing. 66 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: We have no animal testing in New Zealand. China demands 67 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 2: animal testing on products to be sold in China. We 68 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: found in pass through with the government there that actually 69 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: enables us to make sure that we don't have our 70 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 2: products tested on animals and it's acceptable to the Chinese. 71 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: And that about two hundred million dollars for brands like 72 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: Trilogy and Linden Leaves and Ecostore and Antipodies now, so 73 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: you know, they are really really pumped because they've got 74 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: great products with infused Kiwi products that the Chinese consumers 75 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: absolutely love, pear peculiarly made for the Chinese market, and 76 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: they couldn't sell them into the mass retail market. They 77 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,839 Speaker 2: could only sell them through online channels. And that's about 78 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: two hundred million dollars worth. The thing that you're talking about, 79 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: which is the Southern links, something I've banged on about 80 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: for the last ten years, even when I was at 81 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 2: in New Zealand, was that this You've got this economic 82 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: powerhouse called China, got this other one called South America, 83 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: and the fastest way to connect them is actually third. 84 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: The complete antipoties from each other is actually through New 85 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: Zealand and so Auckland Airport becoming a freight hub between 86 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: things about the trade that happens between those two regions 87 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: of the world, and also the ability to bring Latin 88 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: American tourists to New Zealand as well as more Chinese 89 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: tourists to New Zealand. And then we supported that with 90 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: the transit visa, but we needed an airline to actually 91 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: make for connections, and that's China Eastern who we were 92 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: able to do the deal with. We were in Shanghai. 93 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: So I've also got four million. Okay, so I've also 94 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: got four hundred million for the primary sector. Is that 95 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: over and a bible we already in two way? 96 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 2: Yeah it is, Yeah, it is. It's just basically what's happened. 97 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: I was really impressed, Mike. You know, the literacy of 98 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: the New Zealand exporters into the Chinese market is very 99 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: very high. But they also are working with really outstanding 100 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 2: Chinese distribution partners. They're actually able to sell those products 101 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: into more of regional China outre and you've got to 102 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: remember there's two hundred and twenty cities in China with 103 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 2: populations over a million people. So you know, a lot 104 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: of it was signing deals with new partners that actually 105 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: could get those products that we sell out into to 106 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: more parts of China. So yeah, so that's how that 107 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: sort of works around dairy, hort and meat. But you 108 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: know care we free on fire up there, you know, 109 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: dairy on fire up there. Red meat actually a huge opportunity. 110 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,679 Speaker 2: Wine very small, fifty one million dollars only of wine sold, 111 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: so huge opportunity for us to grow wine into China 112 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: as well. So yeah, a lot of it is actually 113 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: just them are signing deals with better and newer partners 114 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: that actually can have Begger reach and get the product 115 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: to more Chinese consumers. 116 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: Okay, so to the here and now you're in Brussels, 117 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: you meet the Dutch Prime Ministry as well, and NATO. 118 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: Anything tangible to come out of this week? 119 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, really, three things I'm focused on. I'm in Belgium 120 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 2: tonight because tomorrow morning I want to meet with the 121 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 2: European President and talk about the EUFTA. As you know, 122 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: that's gone up. We've grown about twenty five percent our 123 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 2: exports and other extra billion dollars out of just the 124 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: European Union. In the last twelve months, so I just 125 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: wanted to reinforce the trade component with them at the 126 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: Macro European Union level. I'll have a heap of bilaterals. 127 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: I'll keep shifting around as we go through the week, 128 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: but you know already, I think I've got fifteen or 129 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: so sort of slotted, and to meet individual leaders of 130 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 2: countries and do the relationship between New Zealand and individual countries. 131 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: Netherlands is a great example. They're a biggest investor from 132 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: Europe into New Zealand and I want to know I 133 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 2: don't want to be able to spend some time with 134 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 2: the Dutch team as well. And then obviously NATO Peace 135 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: will be very focused on European security issues, and of 136 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: course we're not there as members of NATO, we're there 137 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: as members of the Pacific Four, but we are affiliate 138 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 2: sort of partners. And there are some issues obviously like Ukraine, 139 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: where you have North Korea providing minisions and troops to 140 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 2: Russia to fight a war in Ukraine that have a 141 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 2: huge impact and touch onto our region as well. So 142 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 2: it'll be a good interesting to see where everyone's heads 143 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: are at on different issues, and particularly Ukraine and other 144 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 2: issues are globally as well. 145 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: Okay, domestic issue. Shane Jones gave a speech last week 146 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: said we should get regional councils, should. 147 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: We Well, we're working through the Resource Management Act. You know, 148 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: I have a personal view that I think that's something 149 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: that we can explore as part of that Resource Management 150 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: Act legislation at Chris Bishop's driving through. He'll bring a 151 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: bill to the House before the end of this year. 152 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: We'll be introduced into Parliament because we've got to change 153 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: our RMA laws pretty quickly. But I think we've got 154 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 2: too many layers of government frankly, if I'm honest with you, 155 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: and so whether it's district council's, regional council, central government, 156 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: you've got a lot of farmers and folk that having 157 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: to present lots of different information and lots of different ways, 158 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: and so I think that will naturally be explored as 159 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: part of the RMA laws. 160 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: Excellent. I've thought you were going to say no, But 161 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: this is good because I've did some work over the weekend. 162 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: I've looked at every rate increase from every council in 163 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: this country. It is shocking and it is adding to inflation. 164 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: As regards what Bishop said last week about housing decisions 165 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: and overriding councils. What can you do with anything about 166 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: rates and general inflationary costs that are just being loaded 167 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: upon us. 168 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah exactly. I mean, well, as I've been 169 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: saying consistently, you know, there's a lot of councils doing 170 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,679 Speaker 2: some really dumb things and that is actually just adding costs. 171 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of it's vanity projects and nice 172 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: to do stuff, not must do stuff. You know, we 173 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: want them focus on the must do things and we 174 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: want them adding really good value to to rate payers. 175 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: So you know, looked we've already floated out there. We're 176 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 2: very interested in rate rate caps, so we actually can 177 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: cap the amount of rate increases. You know, Simon Watts 178 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: is continuing to look at that piece of work. I 179 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: think there's also a lot to do around getting these 180 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: councils to organize their finances and it gets very technical 181 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: with their balance sheets and leverage them in the right way. 182 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: If you think about Auckland, for example, you know, Wayne 183 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: Brown was contemplating a twenty four percent rate rise. We 184 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: ended up putting the water care assets into a separate structure, 185 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 2: a different entity, and that then therefore freedom up and 186 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 2: he had eight hundred million dollars more. He did a 187 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 2: six or seven percent rate increase from memory as a 188 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: consequence of dealing with restructuring his finances in in a 189 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: much smarter way, using debt in a different way, and 190 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: some of those just being smart with the balance sheet. 191 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 2: The reasons some of that stuff at this put. 192 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: Okay for the record, we can look at fewer councils 193 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: and we can look at rate capping. Yeah. 194 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: And the thing that I've talked to ALGNZ about is 195 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: also so there is actually some appetite from the local 196 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: communities now for district councils to start to think about 197 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: how they might work together. You've actually even got some 198 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: local mayors advocating for amalgamation, you know. And part of 199 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: what's happening is as they work together on their regional 200 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: city deals, you know, we don't want to deal with 201 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: each individual council. We want to do with groups subregions 202 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 2: of New Zealand. As they work on how they're going 203 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 2: to structure their three Waters assets, they're getting some experience 204 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: of working together, and then you start to logically say, well, 205 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 2: why do we have different councils, Why wouldn't we just 206 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: work together permanently? So, but that's got to be a 207 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: bottom up driven thing. But for us, I think, you know, 208 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: the RMA laws we've really as an opportunity for us 209 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: to think about, have we over complicated the country and 210 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 2: it's just taking too long to get stuff done and 211 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: resource consented? And is there a better smarter way of 212 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: doing some of that stuff? And then I think for 213 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: councils themselves, there's some things around using their balance sheets 214 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 2: better and ultimately you know, looking at things like rates 215 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 2: caps and stuff like that that forces them to make 216 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: sure they're doing the basics. 217 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: Well, good, bitter go, Well appreciate it. Christopher Luxean out 218 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: of Brussels for US this morning. For more from the 219 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to News Talks at B 220 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio