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Speaker 1: Good afternoon. The government has today announced how it's going

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Speaker 1: to help save the struggling media industry. It's going to

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Speaker 1: go back to the old plan force the likes of

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Speaker 1: Google and Meta to pay news media for content that

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Speaker 1: they use through the Fair Digital Bargaining Bill. Now there's

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Speaker 1: a lifeline for Shortland Street. It will get a screen

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Speaker 1: production rebate for local news local shows rather and advertising

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Speaker 1: restrictions on the TV advertisers and TV on Sundays and

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Speaker 1: public holidays will also be removed. The Broadcasting Minister, Paul

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Speaker 1: Goldsmith is with me now, Hey Paul.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, good afternoon. How are you going.

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Speaker 1: I'm very well, thank you. Now, Paul, once you do this,

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Speaker 1: is Facebook going to ban news content here in New

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Speaker 1: Zealand like they have in Canada.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a risk of that that there's always a

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Speaker 2: risk of that. Ultimately, companies have to make decisions for

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Speaker 2: themselves and the purpose of this legislation really is to

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Speaker 2: act as a backstop so to encourage those big extremes.

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Speaker 2: Have you've spoken to them negotiations.

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Speaker 1: You've spoken to them. Did they say they're going to

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Speaker 1: do it?

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Speaker 2: No, they didn't explicitly say that.

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Speaker 1: No, no threat at all, No.

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Speaker 2: Wen Didy threat. But if they've made it clear that

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Speaker 2: not very keen on this legislation, as has Google Google,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, it's it is quite a tricky area,

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Speaker 2: but we think combalance it's with having this as the

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Speaker 2: backstop just to encourage those conversations to happen as part

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Speaker 2: of a swimmer measures that we're trying to do too.

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Speaker 1: So internationally, Facebook has been very difficult, but Google has

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Speaker 1: been a lot easier to deal with than seems to

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Speaker 1: have struck deals and places like Australia and Canada and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect Google to play ball here?

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Speaker 2: I hope so yes.

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Speaker 1: If if Facebook does pull the pin and ban the

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Speaker 1: news content is the most likely outcome, then that we

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Speaker 1: have the same outcome as they have in Canada, which

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Speaker 1: is where the small publishers start to fail because they

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Speaker 1: haven't got those Facebook clicks coming through, and then maybe

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Speaker 1: you have to end up bailing them out.

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Speaker 2: Well that's always the risk, and of course the risk

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Speaker 2: is if we do nothing, of course, in then you

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Speaker 2: know the deals that we have so far might not

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Speaker 2: materialize with Google and otherwise, so whatever you do, there

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Speaker 2: are risks. Ultimately, this is you said in your introduction

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Speaker 2: that we're going to save the media. We're not claiming

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Speaker 2: to do that. Obviously, there's a fast changing environment. The

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Speaker 2: way that people get their news and information is changing dramatically,

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Speaker 2: and obviously it's up to businesses to figure out how

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Speaker 2: to meet the new demands of their customers. You know,

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Speaker 2: you super he's doing a pretty good job with that

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Speaker 2: and other areas that everybody's trying to figure out how

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Speaker 2: to survive in a difficult environment, and that's ultimately what matters.

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Speaker 2: But what we're doing today at the government level will

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Speaker 2: help a bit, and so that's so it's worth making

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Speaker 2: that effort.

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Speaker 1: Paul, Are you prepared if this does lead to some

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Speaker 1: smaller publishers struggling and being unable to make their business

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Speaker 1: work because of the law, are you prepared to bail

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Speaker 1: them out?

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Speaker 2: Bailing out is not something that the government's looking to

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Speaker 2: do too often. Obviously, we're struggling overall, we've got a

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Speaker 2: type fiscal environment. We're not in the business of bailing

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Speaker 2: out media if we can possibly avoid it, and possibility

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Speaker 2: isn't it. Oh no, no, would no, No, I'm not

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Speaker 2: making any promises to anybody in that regard. Ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 2: the media has to figure out how to survive in

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Speaker 2: a difficult world. But there are a few things that

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Speaker 2: can actually make a difference. It's sort of arcaine rules

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Speaker 2: around advertising that we're not going to come to that.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to come to that all. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: we end up in a situation where as taxpayers we're

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Speaker 1: having to pay some newspaper down the line to survive

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Speaker 1: because we stuff their business, that's not going to be

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Speaker 1: an ideal outcome.

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Speaker 2: Is it. No, it wouldn't be, and we won't be

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Speaker 2: looking to do that at all. We're not paying media directly,

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Speaker 2: and I think we learned the government. I think I

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Speaker 2: hope the country learned. It's less than that. If you're

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Speaker 2: having big trade emins from government agencies to the media,

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Speaker 2: that creates all sorts of problems, particularly around trust and perspective.

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Speaker 2: So we're not doing that. What there are a couple

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Speaker 2: of areas around open buses and things which I think

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Speaker 2: has worked quite well, and that's a New Zealand on

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Speaker 2: air sort of program, and we're ensuring that that carries on.

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Speaker 2: And so you know, we're working at a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of levels. I'm not suggesting that any of this is

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Speaker 2: easy and none of it on its own is going

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Speaker 2: to be transformational, but we might do a few things

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Speaker 2: that will make it somewhat easier for the various media

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Speaker 2: outlets to keep going and to be sustainable. And then

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Speaker 2: I think that's worth the effort.

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Speaker 1: You've written to New Zealand and Are You've asked them

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Speaker 1: to consider funding a couple of programs. What are those programs.

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Speaker 2: It's Open Justice, which is kind of reporting on court basis,

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Speaker 2: which is fantastic, and Democracy reporting, which is around local government.

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Speaker 2: Both of those areas weren't getting the coverage that they

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Speaker 2: needed and required and a good functioning democracy, and I

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Speaker 2: think both of those projects have been quite useful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very pleased to hear that. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: the changes that you're making for Short Story are actually

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Speaker 1: going to save it because you are allowing them to

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Speaker 1: claim potentially up to ten million dollars but the show

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Speaker 1: actually cost twenty million to make.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, ultimately that's a decision for TV and ZED

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, what we're doing is

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Speaker 2: enabling them to or changing the kind of threshold for

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Speaker 2: support through those rebates. It was a sort of a

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Speaker 2: per hourly rate and now we're saying if you're doing

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Speaker 2: it series that costs more than ten million a year

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Speaker 2: than you're eligible and you know, ultimately it's for the

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Speaker 2: Film Commission to make that decision whether to fund Shortened

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Speaker 2: Street and then ultimately for TV and said to make

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Speaker 2: it work. But certainly what we're doing will make that

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Speaker 2: calculation easier and hopefully it might be able to be sustained.

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Speaker 2: And the reason why people say why do we need

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Speaker 2: to be involved in all this and kind of point

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Speaker 2: of make there is that it is actually an important

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Speaker 2: institution I think for us in terms of training generations

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Speaker 2: of actors and producers and all that, and so you know,

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Speaker 2: if we can do something to help increase the chances

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Speaker 2: of it carrying on longer, just as they have done

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Speaker 2: in Australia with Home, in a way, I think it's

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Speaker 2: worth the effort.

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Speaker 1: Paul, Thank you very much, really appreciate it. Paul Goldsmith,

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Speaker 1: Broadcasting Minister.

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Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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