1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB. 3 00:00:13,027 --> 00:00:16,867 Speaker 2: There is a comprehensive and deeply fascinating piece in the 4 00:00:16,907 --> 00:00:20,667 Speaker 2: New Zealand Herald Today written by Shane Curry. Inside the 5 00:00:20,707 --> 00:00:24,107 Speaker 2: exit of All Blacks coach Scott Robertson, new details of 6 00:00:24,147 --> 00:00:27,667 Speaker 2: how and why a dream role unraveled in one of 7 00:00:27,707 --> 00:00:30,907 Speaker 2: the world's most storied sports teams. Now. One of the 8 00:00:30,907 --> 00:00:34,787 Speaker 2: most taling pieces in this piece of journalism, for me, 9 00:00:35,147 --> 00:00:38,747 Speaker 2: is from a source who said this. You had Crusaders 10 00:00:38,787 --> 00:00:43,147 Speaker 2: players saying, we don't recognize this guy. He's totally different 11 00:00:43,147 --> 00:00:46,627 Speaker 2: to the Scott Robertson that we worked with in the Crusaders. 12 00:00:47,267 --> 00:00:49,707 Speaker 2: They said that in the Crusaders he was upbeat, he 13 00:00:49,827 --> 00:00:52,747 Speaker 2: was fun, he was energetic, But in the All Blacks 14 00:00:52,787 --> 00:00:56,947 Speaker 2: the source believed Robertson was just on edge and always tense. 15 00:00:57,547 --> 00:01:00,587 Speaker 2: He claimed the fun stuff was gone, which made it 16 00:01:00,627 --> 00:01:05,427 Speaker 2: difficult right from the start for everyone. Neil McGregor is 17 00:01:05,627 --> 00:01:11,507 Speaker 2: a leadership and organizational culture consultant from Human Synergistics, New Zealand. 18 00:01:11,827 --> 00:01:14,467 Speaker 2: He joins us now, Neil, thanks for lending us your insight. 19 00:01:15,187 --> 00:01:17,547 Speaker 2: How common first of all, is it for someone who 20 00:01:17,627 --> 00:01:21,707 Speaker 2: is very well credentialed for a job to struggle once 21 00:01:22,027 --> 00:01:23,227 Speaker 2: they start in that job. 22 00:01:24,827 --> 00:01:27,627 Speaker 3: Yeah, actually it's all. First of all, thanks very much 23 00:01:27,627 --> 00:01:31,387 Speaker 3: for having me, Jason. Really good to be here. You look, 24 00:01:31,427 --> 00:01:35,947 Speaker 3: it's actually more common than what people think. You know, 25 00:01:36,187 --> 00:01:39,947 Speaker 3: you move one system at a particular level up to 26 00:01:39,987 --> 00:01:45,027 Speaker 3: another system, and both systems just aren't the same. And 27 00:01:45,107 --> 00:01:50,467 Speaker 3: so where one is potentially where someone is comfortable in 28 00:01:50,507 --> 00:01:52,827 Speaker 3: a particular system, when they move to another system and 29 00:01:52,827 --> 00:01:57,467 Speaker 3: it's different, they start to think differently, and you know, 30 00:01:57,867 --> 00:02:00,787 Speaker 3: thinking is the root source of all behavior, and so 31 00:02:00,827 --> 00:02:05,027 Speaker 3: they start to do things differently. They start to worry 32 00:02:05,107 --> 00:02:08,987 Speaker 3: about what's going on and realize that things are different. Right. 33 00:02:10,227 --> 00:02:14,387 Speaker 3: So funnily enough, you know, they didn't really get a 34 00:02:14,427 --> 00:02:17,467 Speaker 3: different razor in the All Blacks. What they had was 35 00:02:17,467 --> 00:02:20,067 Speaker 3: the same guy, but in a different system. In that system, 36 00:02:20,147 --> 00:02:22,107 Speaker 3: he starts to think, hey, this is not the same. 37 00:02:23,307 --> 00:02:27,067 Speaker 3: There's a lot going on and at the different levels, 38 00:02:27,107 --> 00:02:32,187 Speaker 3: different expectations. You know, in a franchise environment, it's pretty solid. 39 00:02:32,227 --> 00:02:36,947 Speaker 3: You know, we're talking about a really good coach. What 40 00:02:37,067 --> 00:02:42,427 Speaker 3: do he won seven seven championships in a row, So 41 00:02:42,547 --> 00:02:44,427 Speaker 3: you know we've got a guy who knows his stuff 42 00:02:44,507 --> 00:02:48,507 Speaker 3: and exceptional rugby coach, there's no doubt about it. But 43 00:02:48,667 --> 00:02:51,227 Speaker 3: moving into a different system, a lot of the things 44 00:02:51,227 --> 00:02:54,907 Speaker 3: that he thought worked for him at that level started 45 00:02:54,947 --> 00:02:58,707 Speaker 3: to he started to doubt at that senior level, like, hey, 46 00:02:58,747 --> 00:03:01,227 Speaker 3: this is different. I'm going to have to take a 47 00:03:01,267 --> 00:03:05,507 Speaker 3: different approach. When you start doing that, you start thinking, right, 48 00:03:05,547 --> 00:03:11,987 Speaker 3: I'm going to look for for learnings everywhere, and so fundamentally, 49 00:03:12,067 --> 00:03:14,547 Speaker 3: you know, you try to do too much. There's a 50 00:03:14,587 --> 00:03:17,667 Speaker 3: lot going on, and so you start learning right across 51 00:03:17,667 --> 00:03:21,787 Speaker 3: the board in what you're doing is you're doing so much. 52 00:03:22,347 --> 00:03:24,987 Speaker 3: I guess a good metaphor would be, you know, you 53 00:03:25,027 --> 00:03:27,587 Speaker 3: see those guys on stage, the jugglers with the plates, 54 00:03:27,947 --> 00:03:33,067 Speaker 3: and they're spinning those plates. Too many spinning plates, and 55 00:03:33,147 --> 00:03:35,267 Speaker 3: so you're just rushing from one plate to another to 56 00:03:35,307 --> 00:03:38,187 Speaker 3: keep the momentum going, rather than saying, hey, what are 57 00:03:38,227 --> 00:03:40,467 Speaker 3: the two or three things that we need to focus 58 00:03:40,507 --> 00:03:42,947 Speaker 3: on and get right before moving on to the next thing. 59 00:03:43,107 --> 00:03:46,907 Speaker 2: That's a great analogy, great metaphor. So Scott Robertson would 60 00:03:46,907 --> 00:03:49,667 Speaker 2: have known he was going into a different environment. Though, 61 00:03:49,707 --> 00:03:52,427 Speaker 2: I mean, he's not a silly man. He knows that 62 00:03:52,467 --> 00:03:55,347 Speaker 2: the All Blacks as a step up from franchise rugby 63 00:03:55,667 --> 00:04:00,107 Speaker 2: with the Crusaders. So do you think he just underestimated 64 00:04:00,187 --> 00:04:02,147 Speaker 2: how different it was going to be. 65 00:04:04,507 --> 00:04:12,027 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's hard what to say. Certainly how different the 66 00:04:12,187 --> 00:04:14,427 Speaker 3: environments might have taken them by surprise. I mean, I 67 00:04:14,467 --> 00:04:17,787 Speaker 3: can't tell that, but it does raise a really interesting 68 00:04:17,867 --> 00:04:22,467 Speaker 3: question for me actually around you know, if this was 69 00:04:22,507 --> 00:04:26,787 Speaker 3: a normal organization, chances are that a person getting a 70 00:04:26,827 --> 00:04:30,187 Speaker 3: senior role like this would have time with the previous 71 00:04:30,187 --> 00:04:34,507 Speaker 3: person and would potentially have a mentor who would help 72 00:04:34,587 --> 00:04:38,107 Speaker 3: them to understand what some of those key differences are 73 00:04:38,667 --> 00:04:44,027 Speaker 3: and what some of the learnings were from the previous 74 00:04:44,867 --> 00:04:47,947 Speaker 3: previous person's time in the chair. Again, I don't have 75 00:04:48,027 --> 00:04:53,027 Speaker 3: context to the depth of that, but it's very common practice. 76 00:04:53,147 --> 00:04:55,507 Speaker 3: And in that way, you know, you're not mentoring them 77 00:04:55,547 --> 00:04:58,187 Speaker 3: around rugby because he knows the game back to front. 78 00:04:58,707 --> 00:05:01,027 Speaker 3: You're mentoring them around Hey, what's the pace of change? 79 00:05:01,507 --> 00:05:03,707 Speaker 3: How many things go I look at? Where are the 80 00:05:03,787 --> 00:05:08,587 Speaker 3: key things at international level versus franchise level. 81 00:05:09,347 --> 00:05:13,787 Speaker 2: How much responsibility Neil does an employer have to support 82 00:05:13,867 --> 00:05:18,707 Speaker 2: their employee in the situation. How much responsibility did does 83 00:05:18,787 --> 00:05:21,547 Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby have to support somebody in the situation. 84 00:05:23,947 --> 00:05:29,627 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean they have total responsibility. But of course, 85 00:05:30,347 --> 00:05:33,827 Speaker 3: you know we're talking about they want the coach to 86 00:05:33,867 --> 00:05:38,147 Speaker 3: be successful too, right, So there's some learnings here, I'm 87 00:05:38,187 --> 00:05:42,267 Speaker 3: sure for m Z Rugby of Reny organization around Hey, 88 00:05:42,307 --> 00:05:45,827 Speaker 3: we've got a highly talented individual. How do we help 89 00:05:45,867 --> 00:05:51,427 Speaker 3: them transition into a role which is different And so 90 00:05:51,667 --> 00:05:55,107 Speaker 3: you know they would be vested to do that as 91 00:05:55,147 --> 00:05:58,627 Speaker 3: well as they could, and potentially when they review the process, 92 00:05:59,387 --> 00:06:00,787 Speaker 3: it would be good for them to take a look 93 00:06:00,827 --> 00:06:05,787 Speaker 3: at how good a job did we do and supporting 94 00:06:05,787 --> 00:06:06,587 Speaker 3: Scott Roberts. 95 00:06:06,507 --> 00:06:09,827 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and you mentioned before in a normal situation, 96 00:06:09,907 --> 00:06:13,867 Speaker 2: and we all know this isn't a normal job. You know, 97 00:06:14,027 --> 00:06:17,147 Speaker 2: if you know, if a senior manager or somebody in 98 00:06:17,147 --> 00:06:19,947 Speaker 2: any position is struggling in a normal job, it doesn't 99 00:06:19,947 --> 00:06:23,187 Speaker 2: play out in the public eye with every move they make, scrutinized, 100 00:06:23,227 --> 00:06:27,387 Speaker 2: every word they speak, analyzed. How much more pressure is 101 00:06:27,507 --> 00:06:30,507 Speaker 2: created in a job like all Blacks head coach. 102 00:06:31,867 --> 00:06:37,987 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, absolutely, Well, funny, you know, the pressure This 103 00:06:38,067 --> 00:06:42,227 Speaker 3: is a really interesting way action, Jason, because pressure is 104 00:06:42,667 --> 00:06:46,667 Speaker 3: fundamentally about the way you think about something and so 105 00:06:46,787 --> 00:06:49,027 Speaker 3: two people could be in exactly the same situation and 106 00:06:49,067 --> 00:06:51,507 Speaker 3: one feels pressure and one feels reacts and just gets 107 00:06:51,547 --> 00:06:56,867 Speaker 3: on with it. And so the amount we've seen other 108 00:06:57,027 --> 00:07:00,467 Speaker 3: all that coaches go into those roles and sit back 109 00:07:00,827 --> 00:07:04,227 Speaker 3: and just just appear anyway on the outside to sit 110 00:07:04,307 --> 00:07:07,707 Speaker 3: back and just relax and get into it and be 111 00:07:07,907 --> 00:07:11,347 Speaker 3: very relaxed even under pressure. There was a piece in 112 00:07:11,387 --> 00:07:18,147 Speaker 3: the article where Scott Robinson was observed reacting to I 113 00:07:18,147 --> 00:07:20,427 Speaker 3: think it was bothe embarrass in touch and there was 114 00:07:20,467 --> 00:07:24,987 Speaker 3: a bit of discussion around that in the article. Whereas 115 00:07:24,987 --> 00:07:28,747 Speaker 3: previous coaches didn't do anything, that's to tell potentially that 116 00:07:29,827 --> 00:07:33,907 Speaker 3: Scott was processing things at more far more of an 117 00:07:33,907 --> 00:07:39,307 Speaker 3: emotional level and so and so he was probably more 118 00:07:39,427 --> 00:07:44,547 Speaker 3: cognizant of the pressure of the different stakeholder groups, including 119 00:07:44,547 --> 00:07:48,987 Speaker 3: the public and m zed Rugby, where whereas potentially the 120 00:07:49,067 --> 00:07:51,587 Speaker 3: others were just like, hey, it's just part of the job, 121 00:07:52,307 --> 00:07:55,027 Speaker 3: and so they focused on those, They focused on those 122 00:07:55,107 --> 00:07:57,747 Speaker 3: less emotional things and more rational things that's actually going 123 00:07:57,747 --> 00:08:00,027 Speaker 3: to deliver the results. So it's a bit of a 124 00:08:00,027 --> 00:08:01,987 Speaker 3: funny answer, but did you find it. Do you see 125 00:08:01,987 --> 00:08:02,907 Speaker 3: the theme in that? I do? 126 00:08:03,147 --> 00:08:06,187 Speaker 2: I definitely do just speak to your spending plates, meet 127 00:08:06,267 --> 00:08:10,547 Speaker 2: up for what strategies are most effective? Neil, Is it 128 00:08:10,627 --> 00:08:13,667 Speaker 2: just to focus on the most important plates? Is it 129 00:08:13,707 --> 00:08:15,867 Speaker 2: to try to get around the other plates? What is 130 00:08:15,987 --> 00:08:19,627 Speaker 2: the most effective strategy when it comes to so many plates, 131 00:08:19,627 --> 00:08:20,707 Speaker 2: so many balls in the air? 132 00:08:21,827 --> 00:08:26,867 Speaker 3: Yeah, good call. Yeah. It is around identifying those things 133 00:08:26,907 --> 00:08:28,587 Speaker 3: which are going to make the biggest difference in the 134 00:08:28,587 --> 00:08:31,547 Speaker 3: short term. It is about having you know, obviously we 135 00:08:31,627 --> 00:08:34,907 Speaker 3: all want your backs to do well in the World Cup, 136 00:08:35,507 --> 00:08:40,147 Speaker 3: and so there's an ultimate goal there. But to do that, 137 00:08:40,147 --> 00:08:42,947 Speaker 3: that's an outcome, right, You can't focus on the outcome. 138 00:08:42,947 --> 00:08:44,987 Speaker 3: You have to focus on the processes which will deliver 139 00:08:45,067 --> 00:08:48,307 Speaker 3: that outcome. And so what are the key processes which 140 00:08:48,387 --> 00:08:54,347 Speaker 3: will which will deliver And so that's a conversation to have. 141 00:08:54,987 --> 00:08:57,947 Speaker 3: You know, as a coach, you've got other coach, the 142 00:08:57,947 --> 00:09:02,387 Speaker 3: head coaches, there's other coaches, there's other experienced people. There's 143 00:09:02,427 --> 00:09:05,307 Speaker 3: the players of course, and so it's about having a 144 00:09:05,307 --> 00:09:07,627 Speaker 3: great conversation around hey, what sort of game do we 145 00:09:07,707 --> 00:09:09,827 Speaker 3: want to play and what are the things that we 146 00:09:09,867 --> 00:09:13,547 Speaker 3: need to do to create the environment the culture that 147 00:09:13,667 --> 00:09:17,027 Speaker 3: will get us all focused on those three or four 148 00:09:17,067 --> 00:09:20,507 Speaker 3: most important things and so it's often not the leader's 149 00:09:20,667 --> 00:09:24,787 Speaker 3: job in isolation to pick those things. It's to get 150 00:09:24,827 --> 00:09:30,107 Speaker 3: the team and the unit to agree what are the 151 00:09:30,187 --> 00:09:33,307 Speaker 3: key things to focus on first and to have a plan, 152 00:09:33,827 --> 00:09:36,147 Speaker 3: and that gives consistency. I noticed in the article that 153 00:09:36,147 --> 00:09:40,227 Speaker 3: it was quite a but to just talk about inconsistency 154 00:09:41,787 --> 00:09:47,987 Speaker 3: and the communication. This is what happens. The communication gets 155 00:09:47,987 --> 00:09:52,427 Speaker 3: a little bit sort of confused because of those spinning 156 00:09:52,507 --> 00:09:56,427 Speaker 3: plates two or three things. And even if they're not 157 00:09:56,507 --> 00:09:59,227 Speaker 3: quite the right things, if there are things that will 158 00:09:59,267 --> 00:10:03,547 Speaker 3: advance the movement, then you're then you're on the right, 159 00:10:03,867 --> 00:10:05,667 Speaker 3: on the right track. It sort of reminds me actually 160 00:10:06,667 --> 00:10:10,107 Speaker 3: of the team New Zealand in the America's Cup. You 161 00:10:10,147 --> 00:10:11,547 Speaker 3: know what makes the boat go faster? 162 00:10:11,667 --> 00:10:12,667 Speaker 2: M hm mm hm. 163 00:10:13,387 --> 00:10:15,667 Speaker 3: And so because people are focused like you know, blah 164 00:10:15,707 --> 00:10:17,427 Speaker 3: blah blah, and you know, it doesn't make the boat 165 00:10:17,467 --> 00:10:20,707 Speaker 3: go faster. Yes, and let's do it. No, then let's 166 00:10:20,747 --> 00:10:23,347 Speaker 3: park it. And so it's about having focus for their 167 00:10:23,427 --> 00:10:26,027 Speaker 3: conversations across the board. 168 00:10:26,947 --> 00:10:29,067 Speaker 2: Is there sometimes just a fact of life that some 169 00:10:29,107 --> 00:10:32,347 Speaker 2: people are uncertain, unswerted to certain roles that not everything 170 00:10:32,427 --> 00:10:33,787 Speaker 2: you try on is going to fit you. 171 00:10:37,147 --> 00:10:41,987 Speaker 3: Look I think that most people can do most things, 172 00:10:41,987 --> 00:10:45,227 Speaker 3: and that sounds a bit weird, but some people can 173 00:10:45,907 --> 00:10:49,867 Speaker 3: be more ready sooner. So in other words, they can 174 00:10:50,467 --> 00:10:54,027 Speaker 3: fit into the role and adept really quickly and become 175 00:10:54,507 --> 00:10:59,147 Speaker 3: adept at that role quite in a shorter period than 176 00:10:59,267 --> 00:11:03,867 Speaker 3: other people. I think that it'll be interesting to see 177 00:11:03,867 --> 00:11:06,347 Speaker 3: what happens in the future. I think that Scott Robinson's 178 00:11:06,347 --> 00:11:08,547 Speaker 3: going to get some great coaching jobs, and he's going 179 00:11:08,587 --> 00:11:10,947 Speaker 3: to learn, and he's going to be very, very effective, 180 00:11:11,267 --> 00:11:12,707 Speaker 3: and who knows, you know, we may not have seen 181 00:11:12,707 --> 00:11:15,387 Speaker 3: the end of him in respect to your works. 182 00:11:15,907 --> 00:11:19,267 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that leads nicely into my final question, which 183 00:11:19,307 --> 00:11:21,707 Speaker 2: is about what happens from here. How common is it 184 00:11:21,747 --> 00:11:24,867 Speaker 2: for someone who hasn't been successful in a certain role 185 00:11:24,987 --> 00:11:28,027 Speaker 2: to learn from it and be successful in the future 186 00:11:28,067 --> 00:11:28,907 Speaker 2: in a similar job. 187 00:11:30,027 --> 00:11:34,227 Speaker 3: Look, it's very common, but let's be honest, it's also 188 00:11:34,267 --> 00:11:37,627 Speaker 3: common for people to go the other way as well. 189 00:11:38,267 --> 00:11:40,987 Speaker 3: And so again this is around the quality of the thinking. 190 00:11:41,747 --> 00:11:46,307 Speaker 3: And so you know, Scott Rolinson's thinking is, Hey, what 191 00:11:46,347 --> 00:11:48,107 Speaker 3: are the lessons that I can learn from the sort 192 00:11:48,107 --> 00:11:50,267 Speaker 3: of the things I need to do differently next time? 193 00:11:50,787 --> 00:11:53,067 Speaker 3: And next time might be quite soon for him, and 194 00:11:53,107 --> 00:11:55,987 Speaker 3: so what are those lessons and how do I do 195 00:11:56,027 --> 00:11:59,427 Speaker 3: it differently to get a different result. There's absolutely no 196 00:11:59,547 --> 00:12:02,907 Speaker 3: reason why you can't do a great job and as 197 00:12:02,987 --> 00:12:06,627 Speaker 3: actually you know a lot of people do that. It's 198 00:12:06,707 --> 00:12:08,627 Speaker 3: up to it's up to your thinking, it's up to 199 00:12:08,627 --> 00:12:14,427 Speaker 3: your confidence in yourself. So you know, there's an old saying. 200 00:12:14,827 --> 00:12:17,147 Speaker 3: I think they call it the Peter principle, where someone 201 00:12:17,147 --> 00:12:21,507 Speaker 3: gets promoted to their level of in confidence. But I've 202 00:12:21,507 --> 00:12:23,427 Speaker 3: always I've always thought that was not quite right. I've 203 00:12:23,427 --> 00:12:26,747 Speaker 3: always thought that actually it's it's where people get promoted 204 00:12:26,747 --> 00:12:31,987 Speaker 3: to their level of in confidence. And confidence is something 205 00:12:32,027 --> 00:12:35,867 Speaker 3: that you can gain through having mentals, through learning experiences, 206 00:12:35,907 --> 00:12:38,187 Speaker 3: through processing it. But it's all down to you, and 207 00:12:38,187 --> 00:12:39,907 Speaker 3: it's all down to your thinking. You know, you can 208 00:12:39,947 --> 00:12:41,787 Speaker 3: do anything. You can do anything if you put your 209 00:12:41,827 --> 00:12:42,147 Speaker 3: mind to it. 210 00:12:42,707 --> 00:12:46,147 Speaker 2: Now you've provided us terrific insight and analysis. Thanks so 211 00:12:46,187 --> 00:12:49,027 Speaker 2: much for joining us on ZB today. It's been a 212 00:12:49,107 --> 00:12:52,307 Speaker 2: very enjoyable chat. Thanks Jason, good to chet to you, 213 00:12:52,427 --> 00:12:56,467 Speaker 2: Neil Things Indeed that is Neil McGregor, leadership and organizational 214 00:12:56,547 --> 00:13:01,267 Speaker 2: culture consultant from Human Synergistics, New Zealand. Plenty to pick 215 00:13:01,347 --> 00:13:04,467 Speaker 2: up on there. I genuinely think Scott Robertson thought he 216 00:13:04,747 --> 00:13:06,707 Speaker 2: would be able to be the same in the All 217 00:13:06,747 --> 00:13:10,467 Speaker 2: Blacks as he was in the Crusaders, that the same 218 00:13:10,547 --> 00:13:15,147 Speaker 2: basic principles would apply. And why wouldn't he want to 219 00:13:15,267 --> 00:13:19,307 Speaker 2: use what had worked so spectacularly well in his new 220 00:13:19,427 --> 00:13:21,787 Speaker 2: job or in his old job and his new job. 221 00:13:22,467 --> 00:13:23,707 Speaker 2: If you've got you think about it, If you've got 222 00:13:23,707 --> 00:13:26,987 Speaker 2: a new job, you would naturally gravitate to the things 223 00:13:27,027 --> 00:13:29,787 Speaker 2: that had worked for you in the past and try 224 00:13:29,827 --> 00:13:32,827 Speaker 2: to put them into place in your new role. Yes, 225 00:13:32,867 --> 00:13:36,507 Speaker 2: it's a new environment, but the job you're doing is 226 00:13:36,547 --> 00:13:42,267 Speaker 2: effectively the same. It's natural, isn't it to to say, Okay, 227 00:13:42,267 --> 00:13:45,307 Speaker 2: well that's worked really really well for me, so I'll 228 00:13:45,387 --> 00:13:48,427 Speaker 2: do that over here as well. But I mean, coaching 229 00:13:48,427 --> 00:13:50,267 Speaker 2: the All Blacks is clearly very different from coaching a 230 00:13:50,307 --> 00:13:54,547 Speaker 2: Super rugby side. You've got your players around you six 231 00:13:54,627 --> 00:13:56,867 Speaker 2: days a week for months on end. In a super 232 00:13:56,947 --> 00:14:00,667 Speaker 2: rugby setting, you build a culture and a connection far 233 00:14:00,827 --> 00:14:04,587 Speaker 2: more easily, i'd imagine, than you can when you only 234 00:14:04,587 --> 00:14:06,707 Speaker 2: get your guys together at the end of the Super 235 00:14:06,787 --> 00:14:09,787 Speaker 2: Rugby season. And then you add this extra dynamic of 236 00:14:09,987 --> 00:14:12,907 Speaker 2: Super rugby allegiances and trying to mesh together these players 237 00:14:13,467 --> 00:14:15,107 Speaker 2: who spend the first six months of the year trying 238 00:14:15,147 --> 00:14:19,187 Speaker 2: to smash each other for their super rugby teams. The 239 00:14:19,267 --> 00:14:23,587 Speaker 2: other thing I think we cannot underestimate is just how 240 00:14:23,627 --> 00:14:30,107 Speaker 2: big the pressure is on this role. I think people 241 00:14:30,387 --> 00:14:33,827 Speaker 2: think they know, but I don't know that it would 242 00:14:33,867 --> 00:14:39,227 Speaker 2: be possible to understand the gravity of it, to understand 243 00:14:39,267 --> 00:14:43,467 Speaker 2: the intense pressure of it, to understand how many spinning 244 00:14:43,507 --> 00:14:49,667 Speaker 2: plates there are, until you've been in it. I remember, 245 00:14:49,987 --> 00:14:53,947 Speaker 2: and hindsight's always always a wonderful thing. But I remember 246 00:14:53,947 --> 00:14:57,707 Speaker 2: when Scott Robertson first took the job and had his 247 00:14:57,747 --> 00:15:02,987 Speaker 2: first his first training camp out at nz'cis and Upper Heart. 248 00:15:03,027 --> 00:15:06,347 Speaker 2: This would have been in July of twenty twenty four, 249 00:15:07,227 --> 00:15:10,227 Speaker 2: and he joined us for an hour and I remember 250 00:15:10,307 --> 00:15:13,867 Speaker 2: him just saying, and I remember he said, I can't 251 00:15:13,907 --> 00:15:17,627 Speaker 2: believe how big this is. There are two hundred people 252 00:15:18,027 --> 00:15:21,187 Speaker 2: associated with the All Blacks, and look, I don't know 253 00:15:21,267 --> 00:15:25,307 Speaker 2: Scott Robertson at all. I've observed him in media situations, 254 00:15:26,027 --> 00:15:27,547 Speaker 2: I haven't really a lot, didn't really have a lot 255 00:15:27,587 --> 00:15:28,987 Speaker 2: to do with them during his time at the Crusaders, 256 00:15:28,987 --> 00:15:30,987 Speaker 2: because I wasn't based in christ Church, but from the 257 00:15:31,027 --> 00:15:36,787 Speaker 2: outside looking in, he always seemed carefree, fun loving, energetic. 258 00:15:37,827 --> 00:15:39,667 Speaker 2: Everybody liked him, you know. You could tell that when 259 00:15:39,667 --> 00:15:42,507 Speaker 2: he turned up at things like the Black Clash. Everybody 260 00:15:42,627 --> 00:15:48,387 Speaker 2: liked him and that was part of a superpower. So 261 00:15:48,467 --> 00:15:50,587 Speaker 2: what happened when he went inside the all blacks environment, 262 00:15:50,587 --> 00:15:52,787 Speaker 2: He can only imagine that it would have been the 263 00:15:52,867 --> 00:15:53,947 Speaker 2: different environment. 264 00:15:54,987 --> 00:15:58,147 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live 265 00:15:58,267 --> 00:16:01,547 Speaker 1: to news Talk said Be weekends from midday, or follow 266 00:16:01,587 --> 00:16:03,227 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.