1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:13,213 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from NEWSTALKSB Follow this and 2 00:00:13,253 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,653 --> 00:00:19,172 Speaker 2: Hopes that the government's aviation Action Plan can help more 4 00:00:19,213 --> 00:00:21,892 Speaker 2: pilots take off. The government has released the first ever 5 00:00:21,973 --> 00:00:24,692 Speaker 2: strategy for the sector. Part of that commitment is to 6 00:00:24,692 --> 00:00:27,693 Speaker 2: look at pilot education and create a workforce plan in 7 00:00:27,773 --> 00:00:30,853 Speaker 2: areas where there are big skills shortages. To discuss more, 8 00:00:30,893 --> 00:00:34,613 Speaker 2: we're joined by Airline Industry Association New Zealand chief executive 9 00:00:34,653 --> 00:00:37,492 Speaker 2: Simon Wallace, who's on the phone now, Simon. Very good 10 00:00:37,493 --> 00:00:38,053 Speaker 2: afternoon to. 11 00:00:38,013 --> 00:00:38,973 Speaker 3: You, Good afternoon to you. 12 00:00:39,493 --> 00:00:42,292 Speaker 4: So Simon, what's the most important change for the industry 13 00:00:42,333 --> 00:00:42,893 Speaker 4: in this plan? 14 00:00:44,213 --> 00:00:46,213 Speaker 3: Look, I think the really good thing is that we've 15 00:00:46,253 --> 00:00:50,412 Speaker 3: got an action plan and aviation. It's a government industry plan. 16 00:00:50,492 --> 00:00:53,293 Speaker 3: It's got the buying of industry. It's got some clear 17 00:00:54,293 --> 00:00:57,573 Speaker 3: deliverables with dates on it. It's not just another white 18 00:00:57,653 --> 00:00:59,453 Speaker 3: paper that's going to be put on the shelf. And 19 00:00:59,493 --> 00:01:01,493 Speaker 3: there's a lot of really good things in here around 20 00:01:01,573 --> 00:01:06,493 Speaker 3: workforce regulation, infrastructure is a number of really positive things. 21 00:01:06,813 --> 00:01:09,413 Speaker 4: Can you explain this to me? Or hockey is being 22 00:01:09,493 --> 00:01:13,493 Speaker 4: made permanently available for large passenger aircraft. Does that overflow 23 00:01:13,652 --> 00:01:16,053 Speaker 4: or emergency or is that actually using it as a 24 00:01:16,053 --> 00:01:16,933 Speaker 4: commercial airport? 25 00:01:17,693 --> 00:01:19,733 Speaker 3: No, that side a flower on an emergency when there's 26 00:01:20,093 --> 00:01:23,413 Speaker 3: problems at Alkrind or christ Hitch, for example, and some 27 00:01:23,493 --> 00:01:25,813 Speaker 3: of those larger jets triple sevens or eight three eighties 28 00:01:26,613 --> 00:01:28,853 Speaker 3: can't land at either of those two airports. There's now 29 00:01:28,893 --> 00:01:30,973 Speaker 3: the ability, I think it's from the end of twenty 30 00:01:31,013 --> 00:01:34,053 Speaker 3: twenty six, to be able to use that facility. So 31 00:01:34,133 --> 00:01:36,012 Speaker 3: that has been a work in progress and it is 32 00:01:36,053 --> 00:01:37,613 Speaker 3: one of the good things that's in this plan. 33 00:01:38,093 --> 00:01:40,493 Speaker 4: It's an impressive setup they've got there. It's basically a 34 00:01:40,493 --> 00:01:43,693 Speaker 4: full airport. You've got the departure lounges, you've got you've 35 00:01:43,693 --> 00:01:46,652 Speaker 4: got the seating, you've got the carousel, youve got everything 36 00:01:46,652 --> 00:01:48,213 Speaker 4: down there. It's pretty impressive. 37 00:01:48,893 --> 00:01:50,293 Speaker 3: Now, yeah, absolutely, yeah. 38 00:01:50,453 --> 00:01:53,613 Speaker 4: Now original airlines have obviously we hear about this, been 39 00:01:53,613 --> 00:01:57,413 Speaker 4: struggling with pilot shortages and costs. What's causing that. I 40 00:01:57,413 --> 00:01:59,613 Speaker 4: mean a few years ago it seemed like we didn't 41 00:01:59,653 --> 00:02:01,972 Speaker 4: have enough pilots. I mean we had too many pilots 42 00:02:01,973 --> 00:02:03,333 Speaker 4: and pilots couldn't get jobs. 43 00:02:04,093 --> 00:02:06,853 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think since you know, we're five years old, 44 00:02:06,893 --> 00:02:10,653 Speaker 3: now from the pandemic demanders, customer demand has come back 45 00:02:11,133 --> 00:02:14,933 Speaker 3: globally and here in New Zealand as well. And we've 46 00:02:14,933 --> 00:02:17,493 Speaker 3: had a period when our flight training schools haven't had 47 00:02:17,493 --> 00:02:21,293 Speaker 3: the numbers, haven't been training the numbers. And you know, 48 00:02:21,453 --> 00:02:23,933 Speaker 3: now we now that demand has come back. We're around 49 00:02:23,972 --> 00:02:28,133 Speaker 3: about one hundred pilots short in New Zealand each year. 50 00:02:28,532 --> 00:02:31,773 Speaker 3: And look, I think the big thing here is that 51 00:02:31,813 --> 00:02:35,853 Speaker 3: we don't have favorable policy settings to get young kiwis 52 00:02:35,893 --> 00:02:38,893 Speaker 3: into into flight training. And that's one of the big 53 00:02:38,933 --> 00:02:40,933 Speaker 3: things in this plan that is going to have a 54 00:02:40,972 --> 00:02:41,773 Speaker 3: real focus. 55 00:02:42,293 --> 00:02:46,053 Speaker 4: We're talking to Simon Wallace, Chief Executive Aviation Industry Association, 56 00:02:46,493 --> 00:02:49,093 Speaker 4: New Zealand. So further to that, how long and how 57 00:02:49,133 --> 00:02:52,253 Speaker 4: much does it currently take and cost to become a pilot, 58 00:02:52,252 --> 00:02:54,613 Speaker 4: including we keep hearing about this all the hours you 59 00:02:54,693 --> 00:02:57,453 Speaker 4: realistically need to get in to get a well paying 60 00:02:57,532 --> 00:02:59,173 Speaker 4: job after you certified. 61 00:03:00,293 --> 00:03:02,853 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, it's quite hard to break this all down, 62 00:03:02,933 --> 00:03:06,572 Speaker 3: but you know, at the moment there's a fifty thousand deficit, 63 00:03:06,693 --> 00:03:09,653 Speaker 3: so that the government will only we only loan up 64 00:03:09,733 --> 00:03:13,013 Speaker 3: to seventy thousand dollars for what's essentially an eighteen months 65 00:03:13,013 --> 00:03:16,693 Speaker 3: to two year program. The cost of tuition fees for 66 00:03:16,813 --> 00:03:18,532 Speaker 3: pilot training is in the order of one hundred to 67 00:03:18,532 --> 00:03:22,252 Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty thousand. We haven't had that seventy 68 00:03:22,333 --> 00:03:25,933 Speaker 3: thousand don't a seventy thousand dollars loan cap change since 69 00:03:26,013 --> 00:03:29,972 Speaker 3: twenty thirteen. So what we're doing here is we're increasingly 70 00:03:30,093 --> 00:03:34,773 Speaker 3: locking out young kiwis from opting for a career in 71 00:03:35,493 --> 00:03:38,333 Speaker 3: as a pilot. It's only the well off. It's only 72 00:03:38,373 --> 00:03:41,213 Speaker 3: wealthy families that can afford to put their kids through 73 00:03:41,853 --> 00:03:45,733 Speaker 3: flight training, and we want all New Zealanders to have 74 00:03:45,813 --> 00:03:48,093 Speaker 3: that opportunity. So there's got to be some change here 75 00:03:48,133 --> 00:03:52,213 Speaker 3: around what's available to be lent. And you know, we 76 00:03:52,333 --> 00:03:55,173 Speaker 3: have officials saying to us that, you know, pilots don't 77 00:03:55,213 --> 00:03:58,933 Speaker 3: pay them their loans back in a timely manner. Yeah. Sure, 78 00:03:58,973 --> 00:04:01,053 Speaker 3: they don't pay them back as quickly as as some 79 00:04:01,213 --> 00:04:05,093 Speaker 3: other occupations, but they do pay their loans back after 80 00:04:05,253 --> 00:04:10,133 Speaker 3: a period of time. It's a part really good career pathway. 81 00:04:10,293 --> 00:04:12,613 Speaker 3: So you know, there's got to be an open mind 82 00:04:13,213 --> 00:04:15,253 Speaker 3: around us so we can get more young qbs into 83 00:04:15,253 --> 00:04:15,853 Speaker 3: pilot training. 84 00:04:15,933 --> 00:04:18,453 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, especially since we need pilots now. It's 85 00:04:18,493 --> 00:04:21,373 Speaker 4: obviously cheaper to get your hours in a simulator as 86 00:04:21,413 --> 00:04:24,813 Speaker 4: opposed to taking up an aircraft. Simulator is good enough 87 00:04:24,853 --> 00:04:26,813 Speaker 4: to count for training. 88 00:04:27,853 --> 00:04:30,973 Speaker 3: It's part, it's part of it. You've got to have 89 00:04:31,013 --> 00:04:33,613 Speaker 3: that time in the year you have any any instructor 90 00:04:33,653 --> 00:04:35,773 Speaker 3: and I'm not I'm not a pilot or an instructor, 91 00:04:35,893 --> 00:04:38,053 Speaker 3: but you know you have to have that time in 92 00:04:38,093 --> 00:04:40,453 Speaker 3: the year. It's all, it's all part of it's all 93 00:04:40,493 --> 00:04:44,253 Speaker 3: part of the training, you know. I know the government 94 00:04:44,333 --> 00:04:46,933 Speaker 3: is really the Minister James Meek said said at our 95 00:04:46,973 --> 00:04:50,173 Speaker 3: conference that you know, we want the training time frame 96 00:04:50,213 --> 00:04:53,693 Speaker 3: to be condensed into a year. You know, we would 97 00:04:53,733 --> 00:04:56,133 Speaker 3: like that too, but it's very it's very challenging in 98 00:04:56,213 --> 00:04:59,253 Speaker 3: terms of the fact that we were short of flight instructors. 99 00:04:59,253 --> 00:05:02,013 Speaker 3: We've got a qualifications framework, it's not set up to 100 00:05:02,053 --> 00:05:03,893 Speaker 3: deliver it in a year, so that we need government 101 00:05:03,973 --> 00:05:07,413 Speaker 3: agencies to come to the party. And actually New Zealand 102 00:05:07,453 --> 00:05:10,133 Speaker 3: climate is an issue as well, because we're not an 103 00:05:10,173 --> 00:05:13,053 Speaker 3: Arizona where you can where you can fly almost every 104 00:05:13,093 --> 00:05:16,573 Speaker 3: day of the year, so we you know that that 105 00:05:16,733 --> 00:05:19,373 Speaker 3: is that is a reality as well, so we're not 106 00:05:19,853 --> 00:05:21,693 Speaker 3: we want to be able to work with the government 107 00:05:21,693 --> 00:05:25,013 Speaker 3: about how we can content condense that training that training 108 00:05:25,093 --> 00:05:27,853 Speaker 3: time frame. But there's a few things we've got to 109 00:05:27,933 --> 00:05:29,173 Speaker 3: got to get over the line first. 110 00:05:29,253 --> 00:05:31,933 Speaker 4: That's interesting about New Zealand conditions come in which particular 111 00:05:31,973 --> 00:05:34,293 Speaker 4: West Indian Cricketer said that you have to be the 112 00:05:34,293 --> 00:05:37,893 Speaker 4: best pilot in the world to land in New Zealand 113 00:05:38,053 --> 00:05:41,053 Speaker 4: because you have to land the plane sideways. So do 114 00:05:41,093 --> 00:05:43,133 Speaker 4: you have to be a better pilot than you have 115 00:05:43,213 --> 00:05:45,933 Speaker 4: to be saying the outback of Australia or as you say, Arizona, 116 00:05:47,133 --> 00:05:47,373 Speaker 4: you have. 117 00:05:47,333 --> 00:05:50,573 Speaker 3: To be a really good pilot in Wellington today it's 118 00:05:50,613 --> 00:05:54,493 Speaker 3: blowing a gale. But I think that's what makes that 119 00:05:54,493 --> 00:05:57,773 Speaker 3: that's that's about the quality of our training because you know, 120 00:05:57,933 --> 00:06:01,973 Speaker 3: New Zealand pilots learned to fly in really challenging conditions 121 00:06:02,013 --> 00:06:04,573 Speaker 3: and it's not just the weather, it's the terrain as well. 122 00:06:05,533 --> 00:06:08,133 Speaker 3: So that that that really goes to the quality of 123 00:06:08,173 --> 00:06:11,653 Speaker 3: our of our training provision in New Zealand to pilots. 124 00:06:11,053 --> 00:06:14,373 Speaker 2: Clearly that makes them pretty in demand internationally. Simon, what 125 00:06:14,413 --> 00:06:16,413 Speaker 2: about the idea and it wasn't part of the plan, 126 00:06:16,493 --> 00:06:18,853 Speaker 2: but there was some discussions about the idea of retention 127 00:06:18,933 --> 00:06:21,613 Speaker 2: that you make it easier to become a pilot, but 128 00:06:21,653 --> 00:06:23,693 Speaker 2: then you sign on to a retention scheme that you've 129 00:06:23,693 --> 00:06:25,613 Speaker 2: got to work in the country for a year. Is 130 00:06:25,653 --> 00:06:27,653 Speaker 2: there any benefit to an idea like that. 131 00:06:28,573 --> 00:06:30,533 Speaker 3: I think all that's got to be looked at. You know, 132 00:06:30,573 --> 00:06:33,253 Speaker 3: in New Zealand's got their cadet program that they launched 133 00:06:33,293 --> 00:06:36,213 Speaker 3: last year and they've got a bonding scheme of sorts. 134 00:06:36,213 --> 00:06:39,693 Speaker 3: I'm not familiar with all the details, but you know 135 00:06:39,773 --> 00:06:43,413 Speaker 3: that is happening. That happens in other professions, so that's 136 00:06:44,093 --> 00:06:45,733 Speaker 3: you know, there has to be part of the discussion 137 00:06:45,773 --> 00:06:46,213 Speaker 3: as well. 138 00:06:47,133 --> 00:06:51,613 Speaker 4: So looking at these if these reforms succeed, how much 139 00:06:51,653 --> 00:06:54,733 Speaker 4: better or how different will the aviation industry in New 140 00:06:54,773 --> 00:06:56,693 Speaker 4: Zealand look? And you know, ten years down the track, 141 00:06:56,733 --> 00:07:00,493 Speaker 4: all this will the solve our problems. 142 00:07:00,853 --> 00:07:02,493 Speaker 3: There's got to be progress. You know, we've been talking 143 00:07:02,533 --> 00:07:06,293 Speaker 3: about the stuff for ten years and there's got to 144 00:07:06,293 --> 00:07:08,813 Speaker 3: be some change here and not where we are really 145 00:07:08,813 --> 00:07:12,333 Speaker 3: positive as an association and as an industry about this plan, 146 00:07:12,373 --> 00:07:15,173 Speaker 3: but there hasn't been an action plan in aviation for 147 00:07:15,213 --> 00:07:18,093 Speaker 3: more than a couple of decades. So we've now got 148 00:07:18,093 --> 00:07:19,853 Speaker 3: that and we've we've got to make good with it, 149 00:07:19,893 --> 00:07:21,333 Speaker 3: And can I just say one other thing, there's an 150 00:07:21,333 --> 00:07:26,733 Speaker 3: engineer shortage as well, and the shortages and in the engineering. 151 00:07:26,893 --> 00:07:29,293 Speaker 4: Industry, any controllers, well. 152 00:07:30,093 --> 00:07:32,853 Speaker 3: Any traffic controllers. We're struggling to get ear traffic controllers 153 00:07:32,853 --> 00:07:36,493 Speaker 3: and places where they really needed, like Queenstown. So there's 154 00:07:36,493 --> 00:07:37,453 Speaker 3: a whole lot of things going on. 155 00:07:37,973 --> 00:07:40,973 Speaker 4: What's the pathway for those two professions, like what's the 156 00:07:41,013 --> 00:07:44,253 Speaker 4: engineer pathway? Like in the air traffic control training? 157 00:07:44,693 --> 00:07:47,373 Speaker 3: Look, look, I can talk to the engineer one, not 158 00:07:47,493 --> 00:07:49,013 Speaker 3: so much of an expert on the on the e 159 00:07:49,133 --> 00:07:52,573 Speaker 3: traffic controllers. But you know, we're only training. We've only 160 00:07:52,613 --> 00:07:57,333 Speaker 3: got about one hundred four more training places for aviation 161 00:07:57,533 --> 00:08:01,733 Speaker 3: engineers in New Zealand through through nm T through in 162 00:08:01,813 --> 00:08:04,893 Speaker 3: New Zealand and the Defense Force. It's not it's not enough. 163 00:08:04,933 --> 00:08:07,853 Speaker 3: And we do we have demand from young young New 164 00:08:07,893 --> 00:08:11,733 Speaker 3: zealand as wanting to be aviation engineers. And it's not 165 00:08:11,853 --> 00:08:14,773 Speaker 3: the same kind of we're not looking the same kind 166 00:08:14,773 --> 00:08:17,693 Speaker 3: of of fees to train to be an engineer as 167 00:08:17,733 --> 00:08:21,813 Speaker 3: we are a pilot. So it is affordable, we just 168 00:08:21,853 --> 00:08:24,653 Speaker 3: have to make it accessible. And we're three hundred short 169 00:08:24,693 --> 00:08:28,253 Speaker 3: and we're relying on immigration government's got a growth agenda. 170 00:08:28,453 --> 00:08:31,293 Speaker 3: We want to support that growth agender, but we need 171 00:08:31,293 --> 00:08:33,133 Speaker 3: to engineer to sign off our planes as well. 172 00:08:33,373 --> 00:08:36,573 Speaker 2: Yeah, Simon, really good to get your expertise and thoughts 173 00:08:36,612 --> 00:08:38,732 Speaker 2: on this. Thank you very much for joining us, and 174 00:08:38,813 --> 00:08:40,813 Speaker 2: we really hope it starts to make a difference because 175 00:08:40,813 --> 00:08:42,853 Speaker 2: it is a massive industry in New Zealand. The amount 176 00:08:42,852 --> 00:08:46,173 Speaker 2: of people employed and we heard earlier six percent of 177 00:08:46,293 --> 00:08:49,932 Speaker 2: GDP of the country in terms of the amount of 178 00:08:49,933 --> 00:08:51,733 Speaker 2: people they employ and the money they bring in. 179 00:08:51,732 --> 00:08:54,933 Speaker 4: In the aviation sector. Yeah, wow, that's percent. 180 00:08:55,093 --> 00:08:55,813 Speaker 2: Yep, that's big. 181 00:08:55,933 --> 00:08:56,813 Speaker 4: Well sort it out. 182 00:08:56,933 --> 00:08:57,653 Speaker 2: Yeah. 183 00:08:57,693 --> 00:09:00,653 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks B listen live on air 184 00:09:00,813 --> 00:09:03,533 Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you 185 00:09:03,612 --> 00:09:06,013 Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.