Speaker 1: Kiyota. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Gen
Speaker 1: Z can be credited with a few things, an upteck
Speaker 1: and climate awareness, the ability to work any kind of technology,
Speaker 1: and the revival of straight leg jeans, just to name
Speaker 1: a few. However, recruiters across the ditch in Australia have
Speaker 1: spoken out about gen Z graduates demands on employers, saying
Speaker 1: their arrogant expectations are living a bad taste in their
Speaker 1: boss's mouths. The oldest of the generation, born between nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven and twenty twelve are twenty seven years old,
Speaker 1: so they are set to stick around in the workplace
Speaker 1: for quite some time. So are they in the wrong
Speaker 1: with their approach to work or are they actually onto something?
Speaker 2: Today?
Speaker 1: On the Front Page, recruitment agency Robert Walters, CEO of
Speaker 1: Australia and and Z Sha Peters joins us to discuss
Speaker 1: the impact of our youngest generation of workers. First off, Shay,
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about gen Z's in the workplace?
Speaker 2: Gen Z quite a unique generation of individuals we've found
Speaker 2: entering the workforce. They've come through at a time when
Speaker 2: the global labor market has seen significant change. They've been
Speaker 2: coming through university through COVID times. What that presents is
Speaker 2: a generation of individuals that's done a lot of remote
Speaker 2: working compared to their predecessors. They've seen a lot during
Speaker 2: that time. They've seen a depressed labor market during COVID
Speaker 2: with the world panicking. Then they've seen a boom labor
Speaker 2: market where supply definitely didn't meet the levels of demand
Speaker 2: that global workforces required at the time post COVID, and
Speaker 2: now we're seeing a macroeconomic situation that's really contracting the
Speaker 2: labor market once again, and the leverage of the power
Speaker 2: dynamic and the employment relationship is shifting. So they're seen
Speaker 2: a lot in the space of two or three years.
Speaker 1: I've read an Aussie recruiter quoted as saying they've had
Speaker 1: kids saying to them, I'm not getting out of bed
Speaker 1: for less than one hundred K. Is this your experience?
Speaker 2: Not so much in New Zealand specifically, and New Zealand
Speaker 2: has they've always had lower salary expectations than Australia. I
Speaker 2: haven't really seen that come through in Australia so much.
Speaker 2: In the one hundred grand space for newly qualified brads
Speaker 2: that would typically be highest paid grads. Well, probably you'll
Speaker 2: probably see them in the areas of real school shortage.
Speaker 2: Like the professions, Legal is always one that's got a
Speaker 2: very high starting salary for grads, and then you see
Speaker 2: if they might go contracting and tech and they might
Speaker 2: get somewhere near that on an hourly ray. But these
Speaker 2: are that's really outside the normal. I haven't really seen
Speaker 2: one hundred k being expected by too many graduates.
Speaker 1: What are some of the key differences between gen Z
Speaker 1: and any other employee?
Speaker 2: Do you think level of expectation of flexibility for one,
Speaker 2: because they came through a post COVID time. Also probably
Speaker 2: level of expectation on leadership. It's a very different generation
Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily respect leadership for a job title. Gen
Speaker 2: Z are far more purpose driven, and so what we're
Speaker 2: seeing is that they're really looking for leaders to be
Speaker 2: truly inspiring and visionary and having a lot of empathy
Speaker 2: towards their staff and not all cases. Is this quite
Speaker 2: the reality in the workforce?
Speaker 1: Have gen X and millennials just put up with awful
Speaker 1: bosses for too long? Do you think?
Speaker 2: Ah, I don't know. I don't think so. But I
Speaker 2: do think that if you think the baby boomer generation
Speaker 2: and then gene X, they kind of come through slightly
Speaker 2: more hierarchical times and they're used to they used to
Speaker 2: hierarchy and working in those situations. But gen Z's didn'tly
Speaker 2: not seeing that didn't millennials put up with awful bosses.
Speaker 2: I'm going to say no because I'm one of them,
Speaker 2: so I'm gonna buyas for you on it.
Speaker 1: They're not bad, they're different, that's all.
Speaker 2: Like they're growing up in a world where they're probably
Speaker 2: not going to buy a house, you ever going to
Speaker 2: be able to afford it.
Speaker 3: They've gone through COVID.
Speaker 2: I think they've just.
Speaker 1: Got a bigger sense of yolo than were And that's
Speaker 1: not a bad thing.
Speaker 4: It's just different.
Speaker 3: So I think older bosses are like, no, I worked
Speaker 3: a horrible job all my life.
Speaker 4: You should too, And the kids are saying no.
Speaker 1: There are reports of gen Z wanting the big bucks,
Speaker 1: like we've already said, maybe not in New Zealand, but
Speaker 1: making demands like working from home. Some apparently even state
Speaker 1: that as a condition of employment on their cvs. Do
Speaker 1: you think a kid just out of UNI with no
Speaker 1: work experience could be trusted to work from home.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a trust thing, but what
Speaker 2: they will miss out on is learning. You can't learn
Speaker 2: and develop if you're working from home full time. It's
Speaker 2: just impossible. Real workings in a job, as we all know,
Speaker 2: come from being on the desk, sitting, listening and hearing
Speaker 2: to others actually doing the job. That's the real stuff.
Speaker 2: You can't get taught that stuff in online classrooms. So
Speaker 2: I think the level of expectation around staying from home
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of the time is just ridiculous. I
Speaker 2: think that is a throwback to when they're working, they're
Speaker 2: doing university full time, but that's just not the reality
Speaker 2: of life, and there's a real risk in that for
Speaker 2: that generation. So there's so many studies coming through that
Speaker 2: point to the fact that AI will take over a
Speaker 2: lot of hard skill roles and that's just the reality
Speaker 2: of what we're going to see. The real skill of
Speaker 2: an employee moving forwards are probably going to be their
Speaker 2: soft skills. So employers are now looking for employees with
Speaker 2: advanced soft skills because that's to be required from the
Speaker 2: next generation of working.
Speaker 1: And what kind of skills are those.
Speaker 2: Things like influencing relationship management, stakeholder stakeholder relationship management, being
Speaker 2: able to sit down and actually add value in a
Speaker 2: conversation and advise and partner. That's where the real value
Speaker 2: and an employee is going to be moving forwards, because
Speaker 2: if AI is going to and algorithms are going to
Speaker 2: do all this other hard skills stuff, the employee has
Speaker 2: to evolve. And it's almost like employee going back to
Speaker 2: the future. If you think about going back twenty or
Speaker 2: thirty years when technology was in his advanced and people had
Speaker 2: to use soft skills to be able to advance themselves
Speaker 2: and advance their own organizations and the global economy. I
Speaker 2: think that's what we're going to see moving forward. So
Speaker 2: if you're working from home full time, you're not going
Speaker 2: to have very good or advanced soft skills.
Speaker 1: Public Service Minister Nikola Willis has asked government departments to
Speaker 1: call their staff back to the office and to enforce
Speaker 1: stricter rules on working from home. She issued guidance to
Speaker 1: the Public Service Commissioner setting an expectation that working from
Speaker 1: home arrangements are not an entitlement and should be made
Speaker 1: by agreement. The overall theme is that good employers are
Speaker 1: taking active steps to ensure that working from home policies
Speaker 1: are fit for purpose. Do you support this? And should
Speaker 1: working from home kind of be viewed as a privilege
Speaker 1: rather than a right?
Speaker 2: Look? I support Nikola Willis in that statement because I'm
Speaker 2: of the same view. I'm all for flexibility in the
Speaker 2: working environment. I'm all for working from home in the
Speaker 2: environment when it suits both employee and employer. But I
Speaker 2: think that moving forwards, I think we're going to see
Speaker 2: the workforce far more likely to be working the likes
Speaker 2: of four days from the office and maybe having one
Speaker 2: day's flexibility. We're already seeing global technology giants calling all
Speaker 2: of their workers in back in full time. So I
Speaker 2: think the trend now that we're going to see is
Speaker 2: that instead of working from home two or three days
Speaker 2: a week, I think working from home will kind of
Speaker 2: be reduced down on the Norman and the majority to
Speaker 2: about a day a week.
Speaker 1: Don't you agree though, that other generations could learn just
Speaker 1: a little bit about the importance gen Z put on
Speaker 1: a healthy work life balance though that's something that they
Speaker 1: really cherish.
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah it is, and like I do believe there
Speaker 2: is value in that, and I suddenly do. But it's
Speaker 2: got to be a balance, and I think that that's
Speaker 2: where the gen Z generation they've got to be very
Speaker 2: careful because the balance seems to be it's not a
Speaker 2: work life balance, it's a life work balance for them.
Speaker 2: And yes, well, that may manage stress levels, that's not
Speaker 2: the reality of what people have to put up with
Speaker 2: on a daily basis. There is, you know, if you
Speaker 2: think about in anxiety, that needs to be managed very
Speaker 2: carefully and is very serious. So I do completely understand
Speaker 2: and support ways to be able to manage that, but
Speaker 2: I think the balance has to be way more in
Speaker 2: the middle rather than skewed one way or the other.
Speaker 1: It's kind of difficult for employers, though, isn't it to
Speaker 1: kind of give back some of that balance, because for
Speaker 1: generations they've been used to paying for that forty hour
Speaker 1: a week, five days a week, nine till five, whatever,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Do you think that employers will make
Speaker 1: the decision to kind of hand back a little bit
Speaker 1: of I want to say life back to employees.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we've been seeing that for a
Speaker 2: significant period of time. You know, for instance, our organization
Speaker 2: has a head of wellbeing and I think that's not
Speaker 2: uncommon now. So I think that the organizations understand the
Speaker 2: importance of wellbeing, whether it's physical or mental wellbeing, to
Speaker 2: ensure that they're getting the best out of their employee.
Speaker 2: So I think that organizations are pretty well advanced now.
Speaker 2: So I don't think that message or the importance or
Speaker 2: significance of that will be lost. I just think it
Speaker 2: just needs a correction of balance, and I believe the
Speaker 2: correction of balance is coming through you think about where
Speaker 2: the leverage and the employment relationship is, and this tends
Speaker 2: to swing with market. And we saw during COVID that
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, all the leverage came back to
Speaker 2: the employer, so the employer was kind of calling the shots.
Speaker 2: But then it became a boom labor market, and so
Speaker 2: then everything's swung way back in the employees' favor to
Speaker 2: the point of what I would say almost ridiculousness in
Speaker 2: terms of you look at salary and wage inflation during
Speaker 2: that period of time. But now that's having a net
Speaker 2: effect and the labor market is now swinging back more
Speaker 2: towards the employer, where job security is becoming far more
Speaker 2: important in terms of where the priority sits in the
Speaker 2: modern to employer, and I'll bet it'll only be for
Speaker 2: a little while. But it's all around where that leverage
Speaker 2: and the employment relationship sits at a certain period of time.
Speaker 2: How that it's back in the employeers favor. I think
Speaker 2: we will see employees being far more reasonable with your demands.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you why you're wrong, because there is no
Speaker 3: real long term data for all of your bold claims
Speaker 3: about you know, we're more productive because we can go
Speaker 3: to yoga and have a fennel pasta for lunch and
Speaker 3: then go back to it.
Speaker 4: Not our own time, our minds happier if they get
Speaker 4: to work flexibly. People value it so much they would
Speaker 4: be as happy to get eight percent pay rise as
Speaker 4: they would to be able to flexibly work two or
Speaker 4: three days from home. That's huge, and that's something that employers,
Speaker 4: if they don't have the money, they can say, look,
Speaker 4: i'll give you a pay rise, but you can work
Speaker 4: more flexibly.
Speaker 1: And gen z are set to outnumber baby boomers in
Speaker 1: the workforce by the end of this year. Hey, is
Speaker 1: this just the future?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And you know one of these things I don't
Speaker 2: I certainly don't want to come across as old school
Speaker 2: and I'm progressive of my thought process because what we
Speaker 2: do have to understand is gin z emlannials extra offer
Speaker 2: a lot. Their level of I think their level of
Speaker 2: sophistication and understanding of how technology can help move organizations
Speaker 2: forward is far more advanced than what a baby boomer
Speaker 2: generation will be, and that's just natural. But I also
Speaker 2: think they come with an inherent confidence that can be
Speaker 2: used in a positive way. That level of confidence coming
Speaker 2: into the workforce and almost a surety of their own
Speaker 2: belief system is far more advanced than what other generations
Speaker 2: will be. So I do think they've got a lot
Speaker 2: to offer. The level of intelligence is very high, and
Speaker 2: they're quite well advanced in terms of sophistication in a
Speaker 2: number of areas. What I think they're lacking is the
Speaker 2: ability or the skill set around soft skills, because it
Speaker 2: tends to be they're digital natives. And if we're understanding
Speaker 2: that they're a digital native, and that's absolutely cool. They
Speaker 2: understand that world very well. But if they're not going
Speaker 2: to move forwards and try and advance their soft skills,
Speaker 2: which I think will be of value moving forwards, then
Speaker 2: they might find themselves in trouble. So making sure that
Speaker 2: they evolve over a period of time I think is
Speaker 2: going to be really important. And time in the workplace,
Speaker 2: the aising with other employees is going to be very
Speaker 2: important to help advance that soft skill base.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, how else would they know to talk
Speaker 1: about the weather next to the water cooler?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the weather, or what happened on Friday night drinks
Speaker 2: or anything like that. They're missing out on a lot.
Speaker 1: And I mean nine till five workday, five days a week.
Speaker 1: Do you think we're going to be seeing the end
Speaker 1: of it? I mean, who even came up with the
Speaker 1: nine till five work day, five days a week? Anyway?
Speaker 1: What's that about?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gone. Like I am a firm believer you
Speaker 2: need flexibility. So I am a firm believer in flexibility,
Speaker 2: Like I approach kids sports teams and stuff, and that
Speaker 2: helps me with my own kind of balancing my mental
Speaker 2: well being and my role. So I do think there
Speaker 2: has to be flexibility to allow people to actually lead
Speaker 2: their lives. So completely understand the importance of that, but
Speaker 2: are just just making sure that there's a balance in there.
Speaker 2: So flexibility and working from home are two different things.
Speaker 2: In the generations coming through have to understand that you
Speaker 2: might have flexibility within the working day, but the employer
Speaker 2: might need to have you in the office four or
Speaker 2: five days a week, but give you time when you
Speaker 2: need it to go and do things to help balance
Speaker 2: your work life. So I think making sure that everyone
Speaker 2: understands that there's a difference between flexibility and working from home.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Shay, no worries. That's it for
Speaker 1: this episode of The Front Page. You can read more
Speaker 1: about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzherld dot
Speaker 1: co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Seals.
Speaker 1: Richard Martin is a sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe
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