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Speaker 1: Kiyota. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,

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Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Gen

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Speaker 1: Z can be credited with a few things, an upteck

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Speaker 1: and climate awareness, the ability to work any kind of technology,

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Speaker 1: and the revival of straight leg jeans, just to name

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Speaker 1: a few. However, recruiters across the ditch in Australia have

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Speaker 1: spoken out about gen Z graduates demands on employers, saying

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Speaker 1: their arrogant expectations are living a bad taste in their

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Speaker 1: boss's mouths. The oldest of the generation, born between nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven and twenty twelve are twenty seven years old,

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Speaker 1: so they are set to stick around in the workplace

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Speaker 1: for quite some time. So are they in the wrong

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Speaker 1: with their approach to work or are they actually onto something?

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Speaker 2: Today?

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Speaker 1: On the Front Page, recruitment agency Robert Walters, CEO of

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Speaker 1: Australia and and Z Sha Peters joins us to discuss

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Speaker 1: the impact of our youngest generation of workers. First off, Shay,

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Speaker 1: what can you tell me about gen Z's in the workplace?

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Speaker 2: Gen Z quite a unique generation of individuals we've found

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Speaker 2: entering the workforce. They've come through at a time when

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Speaker 2: the global labor market has seen significant change. They've been

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Speaker 2: coming through university through COVID times. What that presents is

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Speaker 2: a generation of individuals that's done a lot of remote

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Speaker 2: working compared to their predecessors. They've seen a lot during

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Speaker 2: that time. They've seen a depressed labor market during COVID

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Speaker 2: with the world panicking. Then they've seen a boom labor

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Speaker 2: market where supply definitely didn't meet the levels of demand

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Speaker 2: that global workforces required at the time post COVID, and

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Speaker 2: now we're seeing a macroeconomic situation that's really contracting the

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Speaker 2: labor market once again, and the leverage of the power

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Speaker 2: dynamic and the employment relationship is shifting. So they're seen

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Speaker 2: a lot in the space of two or three years.

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Speaker 1: I've read an Aussie recruiter quoted as saying they've had

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Speaker 1: kids saying to them, I'm not getting out of bed

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Speaker 1: for less than one hundred K. Is this your experience?

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Speaker 2: Not so much in New Zealand specifically, and New Zealand

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Speaker 2: has they've always had lower salary expectations than Australia. I

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Speaker 2: haven't really seen that come through in Australia so much.

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Speaker 2: In the one hundred grand space for newly qualified brads

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Speaker 2: that would typically be highest paid grads. Well, probably you'll

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Speaker 2: probably see them in the areas of real school shortage.

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Speaker 2: Like the professions, Legal is always one that's got a

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Speaker 2: very high starting salary for grads, and then you see

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Speaker 2: if they might go contracting and tech and they might

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Speaker 2: get somewhere near that on an hourly ray. But these

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Speaker 2: are that's really outside the normal. I haven't really seen

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Speaker 2: one hundred k being expected by too many graduates.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the key differences between gen Z

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Speaker 1: and any other employee?

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Speaker 2: Do you think level of expectation of flexibility for one,

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Speaker 2: because they came through a post COVID time. Also probably

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Speaker 2: level of expectation on leadership. It's a very different generation

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Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily respect leadership for a job title. Gen

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Speaker 2: Z are far more purpose driven, and so what we're

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Speaker 2: seeing is that they're really looking for leaders to be

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Speaker 2: truly inspiring and visionary and having a lot of empathy

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Speaker 2: towards their staff and not all cases. Is this quite

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Speaker 2: the reality in the workforce?

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Speaker 1: Have gen X and millennials just put up with awful

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Speaker 1: bosses for too long? Do you think?

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Speaker 2: Ah, I don't know. I don't think so. But I

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Speaker 2: do think that if you think the baby boomer generation

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Speaker 2: and then gene X, they kind of come through slightly

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Speaker 2: more hierarchical times and they're used to they used to

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Speaker 2: hierarchy and working in those situations. But gen Z's didn'tly

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Speaker 2: not seeing that didn't millennials put up with awful bosses.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say no because I'm one of them,

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Speaker 2: so I'm gonna buyas for you on it.

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Speaker 1: They're not bad, they're different, that's all.

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Speaker 2: Like they're growing up in a world where they're probably

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Speaker 2: not going to buy a house, you ever going to

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Speaker 2: be able to afford it.

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Speaker 3: They've gone through COVID.

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Speaker 2: I think they've just.

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Speaker 1: Got a bigger sense of yolo than were And that's

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Speaker 1: not a bad thing.

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Speaker 4: It's just different.

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Speaker 3: So I think older bosses are like, no, I worked

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Speaker 3: a horrible job all my life.

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Speaker 4: You should too, And the kids are saying no.

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Speaker 1: There are reports of gen Z wanting the big bucks,

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Speaker 1: like we've already said, maybe not in New Zealand, but

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Speaker 1: making demands like working from home. Some apparently even state

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Speaker 1: that as a condition of employment on their cvs. Do

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Speaker 1: you think a kid just out of UNI with no

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Speaker 1: work experience could be trusted to work from home.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a trust thing, but what

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Speaker 2: they will miss out on is learning. You can't learn

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Speaker 2: and develop if you're working from home full time. It's

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Speaker 2: just impossible. Real workings in a job, as we all know,

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Speaker 2: come from being on the desk, sitting, listening and hearing

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Speaker 2: to others actually doing the job. That's the real stuff.

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Speaker 2: You can't get taught that stuff in online classrooms. So

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Speaker 2: I think the level of expectation around staying from home

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent of the time is just ridiculous. I

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Speaker 2: think that is a throwback to when they're working, they're

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Speaker 2: doing university full time, but that's just not the reality

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Speaker 2: of life, and there's a real risk in that for

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Speaker 2: that generation. So there's so many studies coming through that

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Speaker 2: point to the fact that AI will take over a

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Speaker 2: lot of hard skill roles and that's just the reality

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Speaker 2: of what we're going to see. The real skill of

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Speaker 2: an employee moving forwards are probably going to be their

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Speaker 2: soft skills. So employers are now looking for employees with

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Speaker 2: advanced soft skills because that's to be required from the

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Speaker 2: next generation of working.

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Speaker 1: And what kind of skills are those.

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Speaker 2: Things like influencing relationship management, stakeholder stakeholder relationship management, being

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Speaker 2: able to sit down and actually add value in a

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Speaker 2: conversation and advise and partner. That's where the real value

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Speaker 2: and an employee is going to be moving forwards, because

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Speaker 2: if AI is going to and algorithms are going to

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Speaker 2: do all this other hard skills stuff, the employee has

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Speaker 2: to evolve. And it's almost like employee going back to

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Speaker 2: the future. If you think about going back twenty or

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Speaker 2: thirty years when technology was in his advanced and people had

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Speaker 2: to use soft skills to be able to advance themselves

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Speaker 2: and advance their own organizations and the global economy. I

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Speaker 2: think that's what we're going to see moving forward. So

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Speaker 2: if you're working from home full time, you're not going

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Speaker 2: to have very good or advanced soft skills.

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Speaker 1: Public Service Minister Nikola Willis has asked government departments to

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Speaker 1: call their staff back to the office and to enforce

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Speaker 1: stricter rules on working from home. She issued guidance to

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Speaker 1: the Public Service Commissioner setting an expectation that working from

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Speaker 1: home arrangements are not an entitlement and should be made

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Speaker 1: by agreement. The overall theme is that good employers are

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Speaker 1: taking active steps to ensure that working from home policies

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Speaker 1: are fit for purpose. Do you support this? And should

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Speaker 1: working from home kind of be viewed as a privilege

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Speaker 1: rather than a right?

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Speaker 2: Look? I support Nikola Willis in that statement because I'm

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Speaker 2: of the same view. I'm all for flexibility in the

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Speaker 2: working environment. I'm all for working from home in the

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Speaker 2: environment when it suits both employee and employer. But I

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Speaker 2: think that moving forwards, I think we're going to see

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Speaker 2: the workforce far more likely to be working the likes

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Speaker 2: of four days from the office and maybe having one

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Speaker 2: day's flexibility. We're already seeing global technology giants calling all

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Speaker 2: of their workers in back in full time. So I

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Speaker 2: think the trend now that we're going to see is

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Speaker 2: that instead of working from home two or three days

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Speaker 2: a week, I think working from home will kind of

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Speaker 2: be reduced down on the Norman and the majority to

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Speaker 2: about a day a week.

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Speaker 1: Don't you agree though, that other generations could learn just

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the importance gen Z put on

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Speaker 1: a healthy work life balance though that's something that they

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Speaker 1: really cherish.

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Speaker 2: Hey, yeah it is, and like I do believe there

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Speaker 2: is value in that, and I suddenly do. But it's

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Speaker 2: got to be a balance, and I think that that's

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Speaker 2: where the gen Z generation they've got to be very

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Speaker 2: careful because the balance seems to be it's not a

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Speaker 2: work life balance, it's a life work balance for them.

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Speaker 2: And yes, well, that may manage stress levels, that's not

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Speaker 2: the reality of what people have to put up with

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Speaker 2: on a daily basis. There is, you know, if you

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Speaker 2: think about in anxiety, that needs to be managed very

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Speaker 2: carefully and is very serious. So I do completely understand

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Speaker 2: and support ways to be able to manage that, but

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Speaker 2: I think the balance has to be way more in

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Speaker 2: the middle rather than skewed one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of difficult for employers, though, isn't it to

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Speaker 1: kind of give back some of that balance, because for

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Speaker 1: generations they've been used to paying for that forty hour

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Speaker 1: a week, five days a week, nine till five, whatever,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. Do you think that employers will make

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Speaker 1: the decision to kind of hand back a little bit

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Speaker 1: of I want to say life back to employees.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we've been seeing that for a

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Speaker 2: significant period of time. You know, for instance, our organization

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Speaker 2: has a head of wellbeing and I think that's not

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Speaker 2: uncommon now. So I think that the organizations understand the

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Speaker 2: importance of wellbeing, whether it's physical or mental wellbeing, to

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Speaker 2: ensure that they're getting the best out of their employee.

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Speaker 2: So I think that organizations are pretty well advanced now.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think that message or the importance or

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Speaker 2: significance of that will be lost. I just think it

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Speaker 2: just needs a correction of balance, and I believe the

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Speaker 2: correction of balance is coming through you think about where

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Speaker 2: the leverage and the employment relationship is, and this tends

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Speaker 2: to swing with market. And we saw during COVID that

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, all the leverage came back to

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Speaker 2: the employer, so the employer was kind of calling the shots.

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Speaker 2: But then it became a boom labor market, and so

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Speaker 2: then everything's swung way back in the employees' favor to

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Speaker 2: the point of what I would say almost ridiculousness in

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Speaker 2: terms of you look at salary and wage inflation during

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Speaker 2: that period of time. But now that's having a net

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Speaker 2: effect and the labor market is now swinging back more

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Speaker 2: towards the employer, where job security is becoming far more

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Speaker 2: important in terms of where the priority sits in the

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Speaker 2: modern to employer, and I'll bet it'll only be for

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Speaker 2: a little while. But it's all around where that leverage

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Speaker 2: and the employment relationship sits at a certain period of time.

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Speaker 2: How that it's back in the employeers favor. I think

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Speaker 2: we will see employees being far more reasonable with your demands.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you why you're wrong, because there is no

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Speaker 3: real long term data for all of your bold claims

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Speaker 3: about you know, we're more productive because we can go

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Speaker 3: to yoga and have a fennel pasta for lunch and

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Speaker 3: then go back to it.

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Speaker 4: Not our own time, our minds happier if they get

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Speaker 4: to work flexibly. People value it so much they would

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Speaker 4: be as happy to get eight percent pay rise as

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Speaker 4: they would to be able to flexibly work two or

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Speaker 4: three days from home. That's huge, and that's something that employers,

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Speaker 4: if they don't have the money, they can say, look,

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Speaker 4: i'll give you a pay rise, but you can work

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Speaker 4: more flexibly.

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Speaker 1: And gen z are set to outnumber baby boomers in

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Speaker 1: the workforce by the end of this year. Hey, is

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Speaker 1: this just the future?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? And you know one of these things I don't

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Speaker 2: I certainly don't want to come across as old school

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Speaker 2: and I'm progressive of my thought process because what we

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Speaker 2: do have to understand is gin z emlannials extra offer

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Speaker 2: a lot. Their level of I think their level of

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Speaker 2: sophistication and understanding of how technology can help move organizations

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Speaker 2: forward is far more advanced than what a baby boomer

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Speaker 2: generation will be, and that's just natural. But I also

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Speaker 2: think they come with an inherent confidence that can be

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Speaker 2: used in a positive way. That level of confidence coming

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Speaker 2: into the workforce and almost a surety of their own

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Speaker 2: belief system is far more advanced than what other generations

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Speaker 2: will be. So I do think they've got a lot

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Speaker 2: to offer. The level of intelligence is very high, and

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Speaker 2: they're quite well advanced in terms of sophistication in a

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Speaker 2: number of areas. What I think they're lacking is the

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Speaker 2: ability or the skill set around soft skills, because it

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Speaker 2: tends to be they're digital natives. And if we're understanding

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Speaker 2: that they're a digital native, and that's absolutely cool. They

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Speaker 2: understand that world very well. But if they're not going

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Speaker 2: to move forwards and try and advance their soft skills,

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Speaker 2: which I think will be of value moving forwards, then

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Speaker 2: they might find themselves in trouble. So making sure that

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Speaker 2: they evolve over a period of time I think is

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Speaker 2: going to be really important. And time in the workplace,

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Speaker 2: the aising with other employees is going to be very

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Speaker 2: important to help advance that soft skill base.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, how else would they know to talk

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Speaker 1: about the weather next to the water cooler?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the weather, or what happened on Friday night drinks

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Speaker 2: or anything like that. They're missing out on a lot.

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Speaker 1: And I mean nine till five workday, five days a week.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we're going to be seeing the end

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Speaker 1: of it? I mean, who even came up with the

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Speaker 1: nine till five work day, five days a week? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: What's that about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gone. Like I am a firm believer you

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Speaker 2: need flexibility. So I am a firm believer in flexibility,

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Speaker 2: Like I approach kids sports teams and stuff, and that

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Speaker 2: helps me with my own kind of balancing my mental

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Speaker 2: well being and my role. So I do think there

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Speaker 2: has to be flexibility to allow people to actually lead

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Speaker 2: their lives. So completely understand the importance of that, but

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Speaker 2: are just just making sure that there's a balance in there.

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Speaker 2: So flexibility and working from home are two different things.

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Speaker 2: In the generations coming through have to understand that you

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Speaker 2: might have flexibility within the working day, but the employer

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Speaker 2: might need to have you in the office four or

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Speaker 2: five days a week, but give you time when you

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Speaker 2: need it to go and do things to help balance

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Speaker 2: your work life. So I think making sure that everyone

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Speaker 2: understands that there's a difference between flexibility and working from home.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Shay, no worries. That's it for

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Speaker 1: this episode of The Front Page. You can read more

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Speaker 1: about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzherld dot

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Speaker 1: co dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Seals.

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Speaker 1: Richard Martin is a sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe

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Speaker 1: to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind

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Speaker 1: the headlines. S