1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:00,560 Speaker 1: Afternoon. 2 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 2: At least nine people are dead and two eight hundred 3 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 2: injured in Lebanon after an attack on Hezbola. But this 4 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: is the interesting thing about it. This wasn't your standard 5 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 2: type of attack. Instead, what happened this morning is that 6 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: thousands of pagers, as in the nineteen eighties communication devices 7 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 2: that you clipped on your belt, they all exploded simultaneously. 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 2: Kizbola is blaming Israel for this. Israel has not admitted 9 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: to the attack. Greg Barton is a terrorism expert at 10 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: Deacon University in Melbourne with us, Hey. 11 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Greg, hey, have they good agree with you? 12 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: What do you reckon? Has happened here? 13 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: Right? 14 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: Some people are surmising that there was some sort of 15 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: electronic interference that caused all the batteries to explode, but 16 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: others are saying Israel has got into the supply chain 17 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 2: and put explosives in the pages. What do you reckon? 18 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: Well, Heather, things are becoming reasonably clear now we've not 19 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: got a admission from Israel. Perhaps won't have one. They 20 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: prefer to work with plausible deniability. Think about the assassination 21 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: of Ismail Hania when he was visiting Tehran, the Hamas leader. 22 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: So we probably won't hear any confirmation, but it appears 23 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: that these devices were are designed by a company called 24 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: Apollo Gold in Taiwan. Apollo Gold has said that actually 25 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: this batch was made by a European company under license, 26 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: and would that would sort of align with what appears 27 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: to have happened, which is that somebody in an SBNA 28 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: jact has gotten into the factory, or at least into 29 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: the devices before they're shipped, and has inserted a circuit 30 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: board with some military gray plastic explosives, done in a 31 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: way that if you opened up the device you wouldn't 32 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: see anything amiss. These devices work on wireless like radio 33 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: signals that you receive a text message or a broadcast. 34 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: They don't glocate. So this is the reason that they 35 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: had ordered five thousand of these devices about five months ago, 36 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: because they recognized that Israel was able to locate their 37 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: fighters with mobile phone devices. So they said Hassan nas Ruler, 38 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: the leader of his POLAS, said back in February, get 39 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: off your phones, get off your into net devices. They're 40 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: on to us. So they went back to using these 41 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: issues nineteen eighties ninety nineties wireless page assystems. Presumably there 42 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: was in that circuitry that's added with explosives. It was 43 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: coded so that when a wireless message went out with 44 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: a certain code, it triggered the devices. Now, some of 45 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: the devices would have been out of range and hadn't 46 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: got that wireless signals, and not all of them detonated, 47 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: but it's now being said that three thousand of them detonated. 48 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: The amount of explosives was not lethal for most people. 49 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's enough to give you a horrible wound 50 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: and your hip of it's on your belt or you've worsen. 51 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: You hold it up to your face to read the message. 52 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: Some people have lost eyes. Some people were killed, unfortunately 53 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: at least one child, which is pretty grateful to think about. 54 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: But it's it seems more of a psyops operation, so 55 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: that his bulla feels that they can't trust their devices, 56 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: they can't trust their communication systems. There's been a major 57 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: penetration of their human network. So somebody's given the game 58 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: away with the order for pages, and that's very destabilizing 59 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,839 Speaker 1: to recognize that you have been compromised. 60 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 2: Greet Does that mean that? Does that mean that every 61 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: single person who had a pager was linked to his boler? 62 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: Yes, every person. These are pages that were issued by 63 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: his blow to their personnel, but some of these personnel 64 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: are not necessarily fighters, some of them. Bear in mind, 65 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: this is a hybrid organization. It's part political, it's a 66 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: political party in Lebanon. Some of its employees, as with Hermas, 67 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: were healthcare workers and others who weren't necessarily frontline fighters. 68 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: Are not saying that they're innocent by association, but just 69 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: that you know, it's not that not every one of 70 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: these people with this device was a gun carrying fighter. 71 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: Some of them were, you know, sort of bureaucratic, democratic 72 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: personnel within an organization that's a very significant part of 73 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: Lebanese society. So it's a really complicated story in terms 74 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: of comparability. It's a nasty organization. His below involved in terrorism, 75 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: so no getting away from this. But there was a 76 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: sense that these detonations were indiscriminate because it could have 77 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: been a child picking up dad's page. It could be 78 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: somebody who wasn't really involved in militant activity who was targeted. 79 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: And as I said, the charges were non lethal for 80 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: the most part, So it seems to be more about 81 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: sending a message and provoking a response than about really 82 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: incapacitating his willa's military network. 83 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, Greg, thank you very much, really appreciate you explaining 84 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 2: that there's Greg Barton Deakin University terrorism expert. And by 85 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: the way, there is a is it an expectation now 86 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: that retaliation is likely and as a result of that, 87 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: a US defense ship has just moved away from Israel's coast. 88 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 89 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 90 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.