WEBVTT - Leighton Smith Podcast #271 - February 12th 2025 - Peter Boghossian 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:12.693 You're listening to a podcast from News talksed B. Follow 0:00:12.773 --> 0:00:16.173 this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:16.693 --> 0:00:19.733 It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 0:00:19.773 --> 0:00:24.813 the information, all the debates of this now the Leighton 0:00:24.933 --> 0:00:27.613 Smith Podcast powered by News Talks EDB. 0:00:27.933 --> 0:00:31.053 Welcome to Podcasts two hundred and seventy one for February twelve, 0:00:31.173 --> 0:00:34.533 twenty twenty five. You know, there's so much choice when 0:00:34.573 --> 0:00:37.493 considering content, and that's the only negative I can think 0:00:37.533 --> 0:00:40.653 of when it comes to a weekly program. So many 0:00:40.693 --> 0:00:44.613 issues from international sources a at home. Many of those 0:00:44.693 --> 0:00:48.413 are crossovers that affect more than one country. Many of 0:00:48.413 --> 0:00:52.013 them have global impact. But of course I'm stating the obvious. 0:00:52.133 --> 0:00:54.653 But this is only the second podcast of the year, 0:00:54.733 --> 0:00:59.093 and I will approach it this way. On the thirties 0:00:59.093 --> 0:01:01.973 of August last year, at nine fifty three a M 0:01:02.453 --> 0:01:05.533 I received the following email. Peter wanted me to reach 0:01:05.533 --> 0:01:07.413 out to you as he will be in New Zealand 0:01:07.413 --> 0:01:10.493 from December three until the end of January and wanted 0:01:10.533 --> 0:01:13.933 to see if we can schedule an in person interview. 0:01:14.373 --> 0:01:16.093 He said that you gave him the best model of 0:01:16.133 --> 0:01:19.573 wine he has ever had, and still thinks about it. So, 0:01:19.813 --> 0:01:24.053 having dampened my palate, I decided that we'd follow up 0:01:24.173 --> 0:01:28.373 and arranged for something at the end of his Well, 0:01:28.413 --> 0:01:31.333 actually we didn't arrange it then. We just agreed that 0:01:31.373 --> 0:01:34.533 we would talk later, because with the holiday period and 0:01:34.573 --> 0:01:38.813 going away, etc. It threw things into a bit of confusion. 0:01:39.453 --> 0:01:41.613 But we ended up getting together right at the very 0:01:41.693 --> 0:01:45.973 end of his stay in the country. And what you 0:01:46.053 --> 0:01:52.093 will hear shortly will either aggravate you, maybe even beyond belief, 0:01:52.333 --> 0:01:56.693 or it will satiate you. But Peter Bagoshian lost his 0:01:57.093 --> 0:02:01.893 position as assistant professor at the university he was at 0:02:02.053 --> 0:02:06.333 because he refused to bow too. Matters woke and one 0:02:06.333 --> 0:02:09.173 could only say good on him. We interviewed him twenty fifteen, 0:02:10.053 --> 0:02:13.213 so it was ten years ago, and this came quite 0:02:13.253 --> 0:02:15.413 out of the blue. We hadn't communicated since he was 0:02:15.453 --> 0:02:19.653 here back then. He is an author. The publications could 0:02:19.653 --> 0:02:21.933 be found in well, there's too many to read, to 0:02:21.973 --> 0:02:25.413 be honest, let me name some that you'll recognize. New 0:02:25.493 --> 0:02:29.413 York Times, Time Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, Quillette, The 0:02:29.453 --> 0:02:35.853 Philosopher's Magazine, Philosophy's Future, Skeptical Inquirer, The Spectator USA Today, 0:02:36.053 --> 0:02:39.613 Scientific American. You got the picture, and that isn't even 0:02:39.733 --> 0:02:43.493 half of the number of outlets that has been listed. 0:02:44.213 --> 0:02:47.653 He is currently a founding faculty fellow at the University 0:02:47.693 --> 0:02:50.573 of Austin, and the fact that he's involved with the 0:02:50.973 --> 0:02:53.493 University of Boston, that is the new university that I 0:02:53.573 --> 0:02:56.333 have that I have commented on a number of times, 0:02:57.453 --> 0:03:00.853 was impressive. So on near his last day in the country, 0:03:00.893 --> 0:03:05.173 he came to the house and we recorded for about 0:03:05.173 --> 0:03:08.893 an hour and a quarter. It came down to a 0:03:08.933 --> 0:03:13.733 little less than that, but nevertheless it's a reasonably lengthy interview. 0:03:14.173 --> 0:03:17.453 It turned out in the end that the Free Speech 0:03:17.533 --> 0:03:21.173 Union was responsible for his visit here, not all of it, 0:03:21.213 --> 0:03:24.173 because he stayed those couple of months, as you'll hear. 0:03:24.893 --> 0:03:30.213 But coincidentally, around the same time, I received this from 0:03:30.813 --> 0:03:34.613 the Taxpayers Organization or Taxpayers Union should I say, dot 0:03:34.733 --> 0:03:38.533 Org from Jordan Williams. And it's relevant to where we're going, 0:03:39.333 --> 0:03:43.053 so let me include some of this trigger warning. This 0:03:43.133 --> 0:03:46.133 email is likely to upset you. This email is longer 0:03:46.133 --> 0:03:49.533 than usual but important. It will likely see kickback from 0:03:49.653 --> 0:03:52.413 those who like to attack anyone who dares to criticize 0:03:52.413 --> 0:03:57.813 spending when it relates to indigenous matters. The media won't 0:03:57.853 --> 0:04:00.773 touch it. But frankly, unless we take on these sorts 0:04:00.773 --> 0:04:06.093 of roughts, new Zealand's reputation for accountable government won't last long. 0:04:06.493 --> 0:04:09.333 A few months ago, the Taxpayers Union, when public exposing 0:04:09.373 --> 0:04:14.613 the taxpayer funded science project. Our research is uncovered to 0:04:15.533 --> 0:04:19.773 and this is no joke, record whales, mixing those sounds 0:04:19.813 --> 0:04:24.293 with recordings from healthy Carrie forests to take into unhealthy 0:04:24.373 --> 0:04:28.573 Carrie forests, playback the audio recordings and assess whether the 0:04:28.613 --> 0:04:32.933 whale music could be effective in soothing Carrie trees and 0:04:32.973 --> 0:04:37.413 beating myrtle rust and Carrie dieback. You really couldn't make 0:04:37.493 --> 0:04:40.733 this up. Now to recap it was part of the 0:04:40.853 --> 0:04:46.653 National Science Challenges, which are to bring together the country's 0:04:46.653 --> 0:04:50.573 top scientists and use the best science to address the challenges. 0:04:50.933 --> 0:04:54.333 One of the challenges related to protecting New Zealand's by 0:04:54.373 --> 0:04:59.173 a diversity, including our iconic trees. Now recall that MBIE 0:04:59.333 --> 0:05:03.533 officials insisted that as part of the project made range 0:05:03.693 --> 0:05:07.853 Mary must be on the same footing. That's traditional mari 0:05:09.053 --> 0:05:12.413 must be on the same footing as colonial science. Their 0:05:12.453 --> 0:05:17.933 description not his. As in Jordan, Williams. Mbie's justification for 0:05:18.013 --> 0:05:22.613 this project is that, according to Mari legend knowledge, sperm 0:05:22.653 --> 0:05:28.213 whales and Carrie trees are brothers. The hypothesis taxpayers are 0:05:28.253 --> 0:05:30.893 forking out to test is whether the whales have a 0:05:31.213 --> 0:05:34.133 calming effect on the trees and therefore helped the trees 0:05:34.213 --> 0:05:38.493 resist disease. We're not making this up. It's literally on 0:05:38.573 --> 0:05:44.093 the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment website. That's MBIE. 0:05:44.653 --> 0:05:46.893 After we blew the whistle on the project, official spent 0:05:47.013 --> 0:05:50.253 months playing games and refusing to answer our basic questions 0:05:50.613 --> 0:05:54.293 on the oranga that is well being project. The project 0:05:54.333 --> 0:05:59.053 is managed by MBIE, but the actual payments are from 0:05:59.373 --> 0:06:03.973 Land Care Research and after much determination that is staff time, 0:06:04.733 --> 0:06:07.053 James and the research team have finally got to the 0:06:07.093 --> 0:06:11.173 bottom of how much was spent on the na Rakau 0:06:11.493 --> 0:06:15.413 Taki Taki project. Officials are still refusing a line by 0:06:15.453 --> 0:06:20.653 line breakdown. I wonder why. But in total, this Madenga 0:06:20.733 --> 0:06:25.493 Mari based research cost taxpayers four million, twenty seven twenty dollars. 0:06:26.293 --> 0:06:30.453 That's right, four million plus GST was paid to investigate 0:06:30.493 --> 0:06:35.453 whether recording whale sounds mixing them with recordings from healthy 0:06:35.573 --> 0:06:40.213 Kai forests and playing them to unhealthy cari forests and 0:06:40.293 --> 0:06:45.053 other nonsense such as the language of the domain of tane, 0:06:45.493 --> 0:06:48.653 all in the name of healing them and science. Here's 0:06:48.693 --> 0:06:51.093 what the four million paid for. There's only one thing listed, 0:06:51.573 --> 0:06:56.053 sonic tapestries of rejuvenation and well Being. And then there's 0:06:56.093 --> 0:06:59.453 a bit about the project. As part of this investigation, 0:06:59.813 --> 0:07:03.653 we've uncovered that the research was outsourced to a private, 0:07:03.853 --> 0:07:09.093 not for profit company, te Tira Wakamataki Limited. And that's 0:07:09.133 --> 0:07:12.493 when we came to a stunning realization which now explains 0:07:12.493 --> 0:07:15.333 why the departments have been so cagey about giving us 0:07:15.373 --> 0:07:20.573 information on the project. According to te Tira Wakamataki Limited's website, 0:07:20.973 --> 0:07:26.373 its co founder and trustee is Melanie Mark Shadbolt. And 0:07:26.493 --> 0:07:30.333 here's the startling thing. Miss Mark Shadbolt is also the 0:07:30.333 --> 0:07:34.613 co director of the very same bio Heritage Science Challenge Science. 0:07:35.333 --> 0:07:40.573 That's what it is, bio Heritage Science Challenge Science. I e. 0:07:40.773 --> 0:07:44.093 The government initiative funding the project. I had the team 0:07:44.133 --> 0:07:48.453 work through the Finances and Charities Commission records of Miss 0:07:48.533 --> 0:07:52.973 Mark Schadbolt's company. Company's casts are almost entirely salaries and 0:07:53.093 --> 0:07:58.813 its charitable purposes merely provides advice, information and advocacy. Nice 0:07:58.813 --> 0:08:02.133 work if you can get it. Now there is more 0:08:02.333 --> 0:08:05.293 you want it, I think. So it's bad enough that 0:08:05.333 --> 0:08:07.813 this taxpayer money was spent in the first place to 0:08:08.773 --> 0:08:12.413 research what we all know is nothing more than a 0:08:12.453 --> 0:08:16.533 myth Wales being brothers of the ki and that they're 0:08:16.573 --> 0:08:20.453 able to communicate with each other. But when the provider 0:08:20.493 --> 0:08:24.413 of these nonsense projects playing music to trees is also 0:08:24.813 --> 0:08:29.133 one of the two co directors of the Overall Science Challenge, 0:08:29.253 --> 0:08:31.613 what hope is there that the taxpayer will get value 0:08:31.653 --> 0:08:35.853 for money or scientific knowledge will be advanced. And here's 0:08:35.893 --> 0:08:39.373 the kicker. The project leaders openly admit that this isn't 0:08:39.413 --> 0:08:42.653 even real research. They describe it as a way to 0:08:42.693 --> 0:08:47.493 give Mari knowledge equal footing with science, claiming it doesn't 0:08:47.613 --> 0:08:52.253 need to meet scientific standards because it's about restoring maudi, 0:08:52.693 --> 0:08:57.733 that is life force, rather than achieving measurable effective results. 0:08:58.613 --> 0:09:00.773 Now it is more than that, but I think you 0:09:00.853 --> 0:09:03.453 get the drift. So within a few moments we will 0:09:03.573 --> 0:09:20.333 join Peter Bagoshian. So what is the one thing that 0:09:20.413 --> 0:09:22.413 people are not talking about in this country? 0:09:23.013 --> 0:09:27.813 The Maori's indigenous ways of knowing? We're not being honest 0:09:27.853 --> 0:09:30.893 about that, and the fact that the Maori have been 0:09:30.933 --> 0:09:36.013 a stagnant society around for people keep exaggerating it. The 0:09:36.053 --> 0:09:40.413 longer we go on, the more people make preposterous claims 0:09:40.413 --> 0:09:43.933 of how long the mari have been around as indigenous 0:09:43.933 --> 0:09:49.293 people here. And the fact that stagnant societies like the Maoris, 0:09:49.893 --> 0:09:52.613 like the Marii society, is something to be proud of. 0:09:53.053 --> 0:09:56.733 It's not something to be proud of. Being stagnant and 0:09:56.773 --> 0:10:00.813 a miserated and having no method of error correction, or 0:10:00.853 --> 0:10:03.773 no fruits of the Enlightenment, or no freedom of expression, 0:10:03.853 --> 0:10:06.133 freedom of the press. These are not things to be 0:10:06.173 --> 0:10:10.693 proud of. Quite bluntly, anybody who says so should be. 0:10:11.293 --> 0:10:13.333 There are things to be ashamed of as a culture, 0:10:14.493 --> 0:10:17.453 not a genetics, not a race, but as a culture. 0:10:17.533 --> 0:10:20.133 It's not a good thing to be a stagnant society 0:10:20.173 --> 0:10:22.333 for X thousands of years. 0:10:22.573 --> 0:10:26.413 So you've been in the country for about two months, correct, 0:10:26.453 --> 0:10:29.453 and you picked that up when you first came. I 0:10:29.533 --> 0:10:30.173 picked that up. 0:10:30.293 --> 0:10:33.053 You know. I was tuned into the whole Maori the 0:10:33.093 --> 0:10:36.173 controversy around the listener letter and the Maori ways of knowing. 0:10:36.653 --> 0:10:40.933 I interviewed Elizabeth Ratza and Kendall and other people. And 0:10:42.173 --> 0:10:46.973 I'm just stunned by how people have a kind of 0:10:47.093 --> 0:10:51.653 deference to anything and everything with the word Maori in it. 0:10:52.293 --> 0:10:56.693 They're not speaking openly and honestly about tribal violence. They're 0:10:56.733 --> 0:11:00.573 not speaking openly and honestly about the fact that a 0:11:00.653 --> 0:11:05.573 society has pretty much remained unchanged. They're not speaking honestly 0:11:05.613 --> 0:11:08.773 and openly about anything. They're to their cowards to in fear. 0:11:08.773 --> 0:11:10.733 And everybody knows it, just no one speaks it. When 0:11:10.813 --> 0:11:12.773 you say everybody knows it, how do you know it? 0:11:13.653 --> 0:11:15.253 I mean, how do you know that they know it? 0:11:16.653 --> 0:11:20.933 Because they'll give pause, or they'll prevaricate, or they'll obfuscate, 0:11:21.053 --> 0:11:25.373 or they'll change the subject. But when you bring them 0:11:25.413 --> 0:11:28.933 back around to the conversation, they'll at some point, if 0:11:28.973 --> 0:11:31.573 you press them long enough with questions, they'll just say 0:11:31.573 --> 0:11:33.493 I don't want to talk about it, or we shouldn't 0:11:33.493 --> 0:11:36.533 talk about it, and they'll make an explicit acknowledgment that 0:11:36.573 --> 0:11:38.973 they just don't want to talk about it. But you know, 0:11:39.173 --> 0:11:44.253 to paraphrase Feineman, the the easiest person to. 0:11:44.213 --> 0:11:48.053 Fool is yourself Fineman, the scientist. Yeah, the easiest. 0:11:47.693 --> 0:11:50.933 Person to fool is yourself and not talking about your 0:11:50.933 --> 0:11:54.333 problems does not make them go away, It only exacerbates them. 0:11:55.253 --> 0:11:57.013 So the problems with you know, and then you're trying 0:11:57.013 --> 0:11:59.213 to fix the problem on the back end with affirmative action, 0:11:59.533 --> 0:12:03.653 with diversity initiatives. Those are neo colonial American exports. You're 0:12:03.693 --> 0:12:05.333 trying to fix the problem on the back end, but 0:12:05.373 --> 0:12:09.813 you're not being honest about the culture or the Maori culture. 0:12:09.893 --> 0:12:11.813 You're just not being honest about it. I mean, you 0:12:11.813 --> 0:12:12.893 can keep not being honest. 0:12:12.733 --> 0:12:14.773 About what's to be honest about. 0:12:15.013 --> 0:12:16.973 Well, do you think it's a good thing that a 0:12:17.173 --> 0:12:21.493 culture has been stagnant for thousands of years, not developed 0:12:21.693 --> 0:12:26.373 basic technologies, dental technology, telecommunications, any kind of paved any 0:12:26.453 --> 0:12:32.573 kind of modern technological infrastructure, medicine. These aren't good things. 0:12:33.453 --> 0:12:38.013 There's there's nothing to be lauded. There nothing, And the 0:12:38.053 --> 0:12:40.173 people who loud it should be ashamed of themselves. They're 0:12:40.253 --> 0:12:43.453 keeping people miserated. They're making a virtue of being a misery. 0:12:43.773 --> 0:12:48.533 Who's doing that identitarian left, the left, but the whole society. 0:12:48.573 --> 0:12:50.493 I see the whole society in the grips of this, 0:12:51.013 --> 0:12:54.693 being terrified of being honest about the Maori. Again, I 0:12:55.093 --> 0:12:58.093 have harbor no animus against the Maori. And it's again 0:12:58.093 --> 0:12:59.933 I want to make crystal clear, I don't think that 0:13:00.013 --> 0:13:02.413 this is a genetic thing. I think this is strictly cultural. 0:13:02.653 --> 0:13:05.293 All right, let's run through a couple of things. Sure, 0:13:05.373 --> 0:13:07.973 it is only recently, including the first podcast of this 0:13:08.093 --> 0:13:11.493 year when I when I made a comment that I 0:13:11.533 --> 0:13:15.733 came here forty forty five years ago to this country 0:13:16.213 --> 0:13:20.613 and people were talking about marry issues. Yeah, constantly, there 0:13:20.653 --> 0:13:22.453 was problem here and the problem there, and they had 0:13:22.693 --> 0:13:24.173 you know, they weren't getting this, and they weren't get 0:13:24.493 --> 0:13:27.493 it was it was a it was almost a full 0:13:27.533 --> 0:13:31.613 time conversation. Here we are forty plus years later. Yeah, 0:13:32.173 --> 0:13:36.933 and as far as I'm concerned, nothing's changed, because really. 0:13:36.733 --> 0:13:38.773 Okay, of course it hasn't changed, because the only way 0:13:38.813 --> 0:13:40.293 to change, the only way to solve a problem is 0:13:40.333 --> 0:13:43.013 to be honest about it. You can keep dancing around 0:13:43.053 --> 0:13:45.253 the problem or keep lying about the problem, but that's 0:13:45.293 --> 0:13:47.333 not going to make the problem go away. That's actually 0:13:47.333 --> 0:13:49.653 going to make the problem more difficult to solve, and 0:13:49.733 --> 0:13:52.893 then you're going to have to jerry rig outcomes on 0:13:52.933 --> 0:13:55.493 the back end. So, for example, you're going to have 0:13:55.533 --> 0:13:58.973 to demean things that we have developed in our culture 0:13:59.053 --> 0:14:03.453 that we know work. We know the meritocracy works. We 0:14:03.533 --> 0:14:05.333 know it works. I mean, just look at the California 0:14:05.373 --> 0:14:09.053 fires as a recent example of dea I hires and 0:14:09.733 --> 0:14:15.973 deranged firefighters. You know, needing more women, female lesbians as firefighters. No, 0:14:16.813 --> 0:14:19.813 so you can't fix the problem on the back end 0:14:20.493 --> 0:14:26.493 by creating spaces for individuals who are indigenous people who 0:14:26.533 --> 0:14:29.733 don't get in on the basis of merit I mean, 0:14:30.373 --> 0:14:34.973 that's a recipe for the decline, the rapid decline of civilization, 0:14:35.093 --> 0:14:40.813 because you're undermining what you know works. These are just 0:14:40.853 --> 0:14:43.493 to be clear, I do not consider this to be 0:14:43.573 --> 0:14:45.653 I know people are going to be just to be 0:14:45.693 --> 0:14:47.813 a conservative value. This is not a conservative value. 0:14:48.093 --> 0:14:49.773 Well what is it? I don't want to put boids 0:14:49.773 --> 0:14:50.253 in your mouth. 0:14:50.933 --> 0:14:56.133 I don't know. An enlightenment value, a value of falsifiability, 0:14:56.253 --> 0:14:59.653 a value of something that's been tested and tried. I mean, 0:15:00.893 --> 0:15:01.973 meritocracy work. 0:15:02.013 --> 0:15:04.413 We just know where nobody wants to go to. 0:15:05.053 --> 0:15:07.013 People will lie to you and they'll say, oh, yeah, 0:15:07.413 --> 0:15:10.253 I'll fly in a place if the plane, if the 0:15:10.293 --> 0:15:12.653 pilot was a diversity higher. But if you say to them, 0:15:12.653 --> 0:15:14.653 what would you put your kid in the plane? You 0:15:14.693 --> 0:15:17.293 have two choices. You know that the pilot has been 0:15:17.733 --> 0:15:22.093 hired as a means of by an honest, meritocratic system 0:15:22.253 --> 0:15:24.613 one pilot and the other pilot was a diversity higher 0:15:24.813 --> 0:15:26.533 Who are you going to put your kid? You got 0:15:26.573 --> 0:15:28.373 to get your kid from A to B, from Auckland 0:15:28.413 --> 0:15:30.733 to christ Church. Who do you want flying the plane? 0:15:31.293 --> 0:15:33.813 I mean, we know the meritocracy works. Do you want 0:15:33.853 --> 0:15:37.933 your surgeon to be have have gotten there because of 0:15:37.933 --> 0:15:40.173 the color of the skin or his last name? No, 0:15:40.733 --> 0:15:44.133 that's truly insane. That's a recipe to destroy the whole civilization. 0:15:44.253 --> 0:15:48.573 So let me ask you then about your thoughts on IQ. 0:15:48.973 --> 0:15:51.333 What would you say about the about the IQ of 0:15:51.373 --> 0:15:55.973 different different racial groupings around the world. Does it vary? 0:15:56.693 --> 0:16:00.933 Yeah, So that's out of my area of expertise. That's 0:16:01.013 --> 0:16:05.133 the one thing that literally nobody can talk about. It's 0:16:05.253 --> 0:16:08.133 very difficult to parse out those issues. Let me say this, 0:16:08.533 --> 0:16:11.573 I think it was Krick said, there's no reason to 0:16:11.613 --> 0:16:14.693 believe people whose ancestors have been subject to different evolutionary 0:16:14.733 --> 0:16:19.373 pressures would have similar kind of cognitive attributes. It's outside 0:16:19.493 --> 0:16:23.213 my domain of expertise. I can't say. But one thing 0:16:23.213 --> 0:16:27.253 that I can say is, even if it's conclusively found, 0:16:27.333 --> 0:16:30.133 as Richard Hayter and Charles Murray and others have argued 0:16:30.173 --> 0:16:35.173 that there are direct cause or relationships between where one's 0:16:35.213 --> 0:16:40.093 ancestors were from and iq r G. More generally, that 0:16:40.133 --> 0:16:43.613 doesn't mean you should treat an individual based differently based 0:16:43.693 --> 0:16:47.893 upon that data, because there are always outliers for that. 0:16:48.933 --> 0:16:50.773 But it's just another thing that we're not being honest 0:16:50.813 --> 0:16:52.413 about it. And I can already tell you what's happening. 0:16:52.653 --> 0:16:55.613 We're hiding IQ data or we're not letting allowing people 0:16:55.653 --> 0:16:57.093 to research that because we don't. 0:16:57.293 --> 0:16:58.453 If you truly believe. 0:16:58.293 --> 0:17:00.533 Like if you genuinely, from the bottom of your heart 0:17:00.573 --> 0:17:03.733 believed that there were no racial differences in IQ, you 0:17:03.733 --> 0:17:06.213 should be screaming from the rooftop that we demand a 0:17:06.293 --> 0:17:09.333 rigorous investigation of this with the best available tools and 0:17:09.373 --> 0:17:12.573 scientific methods. But no, they're not doing that. They're claiming that, 0:17:12.613 --> 0:17:14.893 you know, this is an ethical we can't do this, 0:17:14.893 --> 0:17:15.653 This is hurtful. 0:17:16.053 --> 0:17:18.453 So that tells you right there that the people don't 0:17:18.493 --> 0:17:20.413 believe it. Are you talking about here or are you 0:17:20.413 --> 0:17:22.053 talking about it anyway? In general? 0:17:22.173 --> 0:17:24.613 You know I'm talking primarily in the well in the anglosphere, 0:17:24.693 --> 0:17:26.133 but in the United States in particular. 0:17:26.573 --> 0:17:27.573 I mean, that's really. 0:17:27.453 --> 0:17:32.373 The last thing, that's really the last taboo, because there's 0:17:33.053 --> 0:17:36.133 there's kind of cultural relativism. There's no reason to believe 0:17:36.133 --> 0:17:38.613 that all cultures are the same. In fact, by definition, 0:17:38.693 --> 0:17:40.973 there's some people do some things better in their cultures 0:17:41.013 --> 0:17:44.053 than others. But when you're talking about IQ, you're talking 0:17:44.093 --> 0:17:46.693 about an immutable characteristic. I mean, it's really interesting if 0:17:46.733 --> 0:17:51.053 you look at the data on you know, Nobel Prize winners, 0:17:51.053 --> 0:17:54.253 for example, the overwhelming majority haven't been just Jews, but 0:17:54.293 --> 0:17:57.453 Askanazi Jews. Stephen Pinker, the Harvard psychologist, has done some 0:17:57.493 --> 0:18:00.733 really interesting work on identical as well as other people. 0:18:00.933 --> 0:18:05.693 Identical twins separated at birth. So identical twins separated at birth. There, 0:18:06.053 --> 0:18:10.573 you know, with the Gaussian distribution of Caucasians with one hundred. 0:18:10.293 --> 0:18:11.453 Being in the mean. 0:18:12.293 --> 0:18:15.333 Heredity had and again heredity and race or different concepts. 0:18:15.333 --> 0:18:18.213 But if heredity had nothing to do with it, you 0:18:18.253 --> 0:18:20.653 would expect that if you could pluck two people off 0:18:20.653 --> 0:18:25.453 the street, their IQ would be identical. Then identical twins 0:18:25.493 --> 0:18:28.813 separate at birth, there'd be eight points but identical twins 0:18:28.853 --> 0:18:31.973 separated birth are only four points difference. So that shows 0:18:31.973 --> 0:18:34.013 you that it has something to do with that. Genetics 0:18:34.013 --> 0:18:36.333 have some and again those are not those terms are 0:18:36.373 --> 0:18:38.573 not interchangeable. But genetics has something to do with it. 0:18:38.613 --> 0:18:40.253 But again, we're not talking about it. We're not being 0:18:40.253 --> 0:18:42.253 honest about the nature of the problem. We're just not 0:18:42.293 --> 0:18:43.013 talking about it. 0:18:43.373 --> 0:18:46.053 There's a row of books behind you, all written by 0:18:46.053 --> 0:18:51.093 Thomas Soul. I love Thomas sol indeed. Yeah, and he 0:18:51.213 --> 0:18:53.893 is a prime example of how you can succeed if 0:18:54.573 --> 0:18:57.093 even though people think you fall into a lower category 0:18:57.173 --> 0:19:00.933 of whatever you're thinking of talking about. Yeah, so we should, 0:19:00.933 --> 0:19:01.293 we should. 0:19:01.333 --> 0:19:04.373 Just so you know, Thomas Soul just defines a conservative 0:19:04.373 --> 0:19:07.493 as someone who wants to conserve the society. That's why 0:19:07.533 --> 0:19:09.373 I said, this isn't a conservative point of view. I 0:19:09.413 --> 0:19:13.293 don't think wanting to conserve a culture that is stagnant 0:19:13.373 --> 0:19:15.653 for thousands of years is a good thing. 0:19:16.213 --> 0:19:18.053 And nobody. The fact that people are. 0:19:17.973 --> 0:19:22.413 Not willing to admit something that is so incredibly obvious 0:19:22.613 --> 0:19:24.453 on the face of it tells me that there's a 0:19:24.973 --> 0:19:27.493 that people are just not being honest, they're just lying, 0:19:28.413 --> 0:19:30.493 or that either that or they're just fund they're just 0:19:30.573 --> 0:19:31.413 incredibly ignorant. 0:19:31.413 --> 0:19:34.413 All right, So let's let's take a prime example in 0:19:34.453 --> 0:19:37.973 this country. And it's not it's not solo of there 0:19:38.013 --> 0:19:43.053 aren't enough married doctors. And I'm looking back behind us now, 0:19:43.213 --> 0:19:47.293 but it's a bit of history. And so you make 0:19:47.333 --> 0:19:52.053 it easier for them to get into medical school. Or 0:19:52.293 --> 0:19:56.293 if you've got one hundred applicants for medical school and 0:19:56.333 --> 0:19:59.813 you're only taking thirty, then you reload the you reload 0:19:59.853 --> 0:20:03.813 the values of the applicants. Yeah, is that wrong? 0:20:04.653 --> 0:20:06.853 Well, I mean if it's wrong in a number of 0:20:06.933 --> 0:20:09.533 it's not just wrong morally. I mean because to do that, 0:20:09.613 --> 0:20:11.853 if you only have a certain number of slots, then 0:20:11.893 --> 0:20:14.853 by definition, you're discriminating against people on the basis of 0:20:14.893 --> 0:20:18.933 their race. So that's a moral wrong. I don't believe 0:20:18.973 --> 0:20:21.293 people should be discriminated against the base of their race. 0:20:21.453 --> 0:20:24.293 But you're arguing the argument here is that there are 0:20:24.333 --> 0:20:28.133 not enough of a particular race, and you've had the 0:20:28.173 --> 0:20:30.213 problem in America recently with the Japanese. 0:20:30.253 --> 0:20:32.373 That's not an argument, that's a claim. People are making 0:20:32.413 --> 0:20:34.493 the claim that there should be more Maori physicians. 0:20:34.733 --> 0:20:36.813 Yes, yeah, so okay. 0:20:36.573 --> 0:20:39.533 So if you want to do that, then the way 0:20:39.573 --> 0:20:42.093 to do that it's a longer term solution that nobody Again, 0:20:42.773 --> 0:20:45.133 I guess the emerging theme in this conversation is people 0:20:45.213 --> 0:20:47.213 just don't want to be honest about it. You have 0:20:47.293 --> 0:20:49.933 to provide everybody with a public education of the first rate. 0:20:49.973 --> 0:20:52.053 That's John Rawls's ide the American philosophers. 0:20:52.093 --> 0:20:53.333 But then you've got to make them go to go 0:20:53.413 --> 0:20:56.213 to school and get the education that you're providing. 0:20:56.733 --> 0:20:59.253 So if you wanted Jerry rig the outcome and say 0:20:59.293 --> 0:21:01.853 well X number of people have to be Maori, then 0:21:01.893 --> 0:21:03.693 the problem is that nobody is going to trust a 0:21:03.733 --> 0:21:06.333 Maori physician because they're going to think they're all affirmative 0:21:06.333 --> 0:21:09.973 action in and that if there are some wonderful Malori 0:21:10.013 --> 0:21:12.093 physicians in the same way that there are some you know, 0:21:12.173 --> 0:21:15.853 the best physicians, it's just taken as what people it's 0:21:15.893 --> 0:21:20.373 just normative in the UK are people from India, but 0:21:20.613 --> 0:21:22.493 they don't have asterisks over their heads. 0:21:22.653 --> 0:21:22.813 Right. 0:21:23.253 --> 0:21:25.293 So if you do that, not only do you undermine 0:21:25.373 --> 0:21:28.133 the meritocracy, not only is it racist, not only is 0:21:28.173 --> 0:21:31.133 it unfair to those people. Not only are you not 0:21:31.173 --> 0:21:34.093 going to improve patient outcomes, but you're going to achieve 0:21:34.133 --> 0:21:35.373 exactly the opposite. 0:21:35.013 --> 0:21:35.933 Of what you wanted to achieve. 0:21:35.933 --> 0:21:38.013 People just aren't going to trust Mallory physicians, and why 0:21:38.013 --> 0:21:40.053 should they because they didn't earn the position. 0:21:40.613 --> 0:21:45.133 Well, the quote is something along the lines of give 0:21:45.173 --> 0:21:47.733 them time and they learn. Great. 0:21:47.773 --> 0:21:50.133 That doesn't mean that you need to It doesn't mean 0:21:50.133 --> 0:21:52.933 that you need to throw away an entire system of 0:21:52.973 --> 0:21:55.133 the things that you know what works. So that's the 0:21:55.213 --> 0:21:58.453 other thing we're not being honest about. If you place 0:21:58.573 --> 0:22:01.773 people in positions, assuming that there's some kind of a 0:22:01.813 --> 0:22:05.253 competence hierarchy, if you place people in positions and I'm 0:22:05.293 --> 0:22:08.813 not talking about like you know, writing, creative or something. 0:22:08.813 --> 0:22:12.413 I'm talking about something that's something about which there's a 0:22:12.493 --> 0:22:15.093 right and the wrong, like boxing or jiu jitsu or 0:22:15.093 --> 0:22:18.613 something because of combats, but basketball or something. If you 0:22:19.133 --> 0:22:22.173 do that, then you will have people who are not 0:22:22.293 --> 0:22:26.693 capable of achieving those outcomes by definition, because they would 0:22:26.693 --> 0:22:29.013 have already achieved the outcome. Now you could say long term, 0:22:29.013 --> 0:22:32.093 they'll achieve the outcomes, but at any given time, like 0:22:32.133 --> 0:22:35.093 time t you're going to be having physicians and pilots 0:22:35.093 --> 0:22:40.093 and fire fighters, etc. Who are not capable of discharging 0:22:40.093 --> 0:22:42.533 the responsibilities of their office. It's just that's what it 0:22:42.573 --> 0:22:44.453 means to not hire some of the base of merit. 0:22:44.853 --> 0:22:47.893 So you're undermining your whole civil not just your society, 0:22:47.893 --> 0:22:53.413 the whole civilization. You're bowing to people, you're bowing in 0:22:53.493 --> 0:22:56.053 a Again, as much as I try not to make 0:22:56.093 --> 0:23:00.133 this to be political or ideological, it simply is you're 0:23:00.173 --> 0:23:03.773 bowing to a group of leftists, you're bowing to radicals. 0:23:04.453 --> 0:23:07.413 You're basically saying that people who have lived in a 0:23:07.413 --> 0:23:10.733 stagnant society for thousands of years, there's something virtuous about that. 0:23:10.853 --> 0:23:13.693 There's literally nothing virtuous about that, and anybody who argues 0:23:13.733 --> 0:23:16.493 that there is should be ashamed of themselves. They're a charlatan. 0:23:16.813 --> 0:23:18.213 They're just a fraud. 0:23:19.053 --> 0:23:22.173 I don't think people have the capacity to realize that. 0:23:22.573 --> 0:23:25.453 Well, if that's true, part of the reason is because 0:23:25.493 --> 0:23:28.253 you're not having honest conversations about the nature of the problem. 0:23:28.533 --> 0:23:32.533 You're just not No longer you don't have honest conversations, 0:23:32.533 --> 0:23:34.253 Like you said, you've been here for forty years, the 0:23:34.373 --> 0:23:36.733 more difficult it is going to be to solve the problem. 0:23:37.293 --> 0:23:38.093 What about rates of. 0:23:38.093 --> 0:23:41.573 Incidents of violence in these communities? 0:23:41.573 --> 0:23:42.173 What are you gonna do? 0:23:42.253 --> 0:23:44.173 Just ignore them or say that's just their way of 0:23:44.253 --> 0:23:46.693 knowing or and that's the other thing that the whole 0:23:46.733 --> 0:23:49.133 idea that you want to would want to include something 0:23:49.133 --> 0:23:51.653 in the canon of science that is simply not science 0:23:51.733 --> 0:23:54.773 because you want to be deferential to certain groups of 0:23:54.813 --> 0:23:59.093 people's collective sensibilities. That's completely insane. That's my friend Gad. 0:23:59.133 --> 0:24:00.733 Sad would call that suicidal empathy. 0:24:01.533 --> 0:24:04.933 By the way, speaking of GED's head, Yeah, what's his 0:24:04.933 --> 0:24:05.413 best word? 0:24:07.053 --> 0:24:10.093 To consumer instinct? I think was really a great book. 0:24:10.813 --> 0:24:13.333 He has another book that's coming out. I haven't read 0:24:13.333 --> 0:24:15.453 that yet. I think it's still in the process of 0:24:15.533 --> 0:24:19.533 being written. It's almost completed now. But he's an evolutionary 0:24:19.573 --> 0:24:23.373 psychologist who's done some phenomenal work with consumer behavior. I'm 0:24:23.373 --> 0:24:25.453 going to do an event with him, i think in 0:24:26.413 --> 0:24:28.133 two weeks at the University of Austin. 0:24:28.653 --> 0:24:30.973 The reason I'm interested in, Gad said, is because I 0:24:31.053 --> 0:24:35.013 bought The Parasitic Mind only just recently, great book. Phenomenal 0:24:35.213 --> 0:24:38.453 sec of books just over there are all new, and 0:24:38.573 --> 0:24:41.213 I'm just itching for the time to get into that now. 0:24:41.253 --> 0:24:44.133 He's fantastic. It's a fantastic there's my hobby over the 0:24:44.173 --> 0:24:46.693 Christmas holidays, It's my hobby all year, but I made 0:24:46.693 --> 0:24:48.573 it a bigger hobby over the Christmas holidays to buy 0:24:48.653 --> 0:24:52.133 more books the parasitic mind, How infectious ideas are killing 0:24:52.413 --> 0:24:56.853 common sense? Correct? The guy's a genius, He's great. So 0:24:56.893 --> 0:25:00.293 I'm avoiding another aspect of this discussion for the moment. 0:25:00.373 --> 0:25:02.053 I want to postpone it because it's more to be 0:25:02.093 --> 0:25:06.293 said in the vein that we're discussing. Take Austraight in 0:25:06.333 --> 0:25:12.413 Aborigines as an example. During the vacation period, I drove 0:25:12.613 --> 0:25:15.253 Carolyn and a couple of friends to a place in 0:25:15.333 --> 0:25:18.813 New South Wales where I lived for a couple of years, 0:25:19.013 --> 0:25:21.453 three years actually, when I was in six and nine, 0:25:21.653 --> 0:25:25.213 and it's basically countrified. And we drove down the street 0:25:25.373 --> 0:25:28.333 and I said, that house there was the house that 0:25:28.493 --> 0:25:31.333 was the home of the only Aboriginal in the school 0:25:31.373 --> 0:25:33.533 that I went to, primary school that I went to. 0:25:34.053 --> 0:25:37.173 And they made the exceptions for him with his footwear 0:25:37.333 --> 0:25:41.173 because his toes were already splayed and he wouldn't he 0:25:41.253 --> 0:25:43.213 refused to wear shoes, and they tried to get into 0:25:43.253 --> 0:25:46.253 wear shoes and he wouldn't wear shoes, so they made 0:25:46.293 --> 0:25:49.933 exceptions for him. But he was he was not adopted. 0:25:50.493 --> 0:25:55.413 He was taken in under some scheme. It wasn't he 0:25:55.453 --> 0:25:57.173 wasn't living there with his parents, and so he was 0:25:57.213 --> 0:25:59.413 being taught the European way, if you like, or the 0:25:59.413 --> 0:26:02.733 advanced way of living. Now in the end, he left 0:26:02.813 --> 0:26:05.733 because he didn't fit in. Now, I can't tell you, 0:26:05.853 --> 0:26:09.653 because of the age that I was exactly what went on, 0:26:09.733 --> 0:26:12.533 what happened. All I know is that one day he 0:26:12.613 --> 0:26:15.533 just didn't come back to school. So what I'm really 0:26:15.613 --> 0:26:21.453 driving at is how do you transition the knowledge from 0:26:21.613 --> 0:26:26.173 one group to another when you're confronted with people who 0:26:26.253 --> 0:26:28.853 who either don't want to know or won't let their 0:26:28.933 --> 0:26:32.013 kids know, or what a live. 0:26:32.253 --> 0:26:34.693 Yeah, that's a great question. I mean I was just 0:26:34.853 --> 0:26:37.493 in spent some time in Romania, and I was talking 0:26:37.493 --> 0:26:39.773 to people they used to be called Gypsies, they are 0:26:39.773 --> 0:26:41.853 called Roma now who. 0:26:43.053 --> 0:26:44.173 Kind of blew my mind. 0:26:43.973 --> 0:26:45.333 With some of the things that he told me. I 0:26:45.373 --> 0:26:47.573 was asking him about problems with I don't know if 0:26:47.613 --> 0:26:50.653 I can swear on your show, but right, problems with 0:26:50.773 --> 0:26:53.453 the you know, the Roma encounter, and he said, you know, 0:26:53.533 --> 0:26:55.213 one of the problems is you need to fill out 0:26:56.173 --> 0:27:00.413 on paper for applications for things like licenses, and they 0:27:00.493 --> 0:27:03.853 just cannot. And this guy was an advocate for these folks. 0:27:05.013 --> 0:27:08.053 They have tremendous difficulty writing between the lines. I mean, 0:27:08.613 --> 0:27:13.173 such strong cultural bonds of the things that they value 0:27:13.573 --> 0:27:18.693 that are completely normative in those societies, and yet we 0:27:18.773 --> 0:27:22.293 don't live by the rules that they live by. The 0:27:22.413 --> 0:27:24.773 key is not to bow or to bend your whole 0:27:24.813 --> 0:27:26.693 society to that. The key is that you have to 0:27:26.693 --> 0:27:29.373 have certain values like well, you know, people have to 0:27:29.413 --> 0:27:33.013 have shoes, people have to be dressed when they go 0:27:33.053 --> 0:27:36.813 to school. Now, if the argument is well, you've been 0:27:36.853 --> 0:27:39.653 wrong about things in the past, that's one hundred percent correct. 0:27:39.733 --> 0:27:41.493 We have been wrong about things in the past, and 0:27:41.933 --> 0:27:44.893 we've treated people of different races horribly, and that's something 0:27:44.893 --> 0:27:48.093 that we should talk about. You know, what does that entail? 0:27:48.173 --> 0:27:48.893 Does that entail? 0:27:49.253 --> 0:27:49.453 Now? 0:27:49.493 --> 0:27:52.533 People think in entails reparations or homosexuals, Like, we have 0:27:52.613 --> 0:27:55.013 done some pretty terrible things to people in the past, 0:27:55.493 --> 0:27:57.413 But that's not a reason to throw away the norms 0:27:57.453 --> 0:28:01.133 of civil society, right. That's that the bigotry of low 0:28:01.173 --> 0:28:05.053 expectations is expecting that people who are indigenous can't put 0:28:05.053 --> 0:28:07.333 shoes on their feet. I mean, that's completely insane. Anybody 0:28:07.333 --> 0:28:09.333 can put shoes on their feet. I mean they maybe 0:28:09.333 --> 0:28:11.373 they don't have a value of putting shoes on their feet. 0:28:11.373 --> 0:28:15.653 But public schools are by definition public and their public institutions, 0:28:15.653 --> 0:28:18.213 and there are certain norms that people should adhere to 0:28:18.293 --> 0:28:22.573 when they participate in and function in civil society, and 0:28:22.573 --> 0:28:26.693 that that shouldn't be even remotely controversial, but evidently it is. 0:28:27.893 --> 0:28:29.453 You know, I just gave a talk to the University 0:28:29.493 --> 0:28:34.253 of Ucklhand. Evidently there's some people upset about my upset 0:28:34.253 --> 0:28:38.253 about me going there and speaking to the faculty. And 0:28:38.453 --> 0:28:40.413 I said, well, let's tell them to come home and 0:28:40.453 --> 0:28:43.013 they'll give I'll just talk to them the whole time. 0:28:43.053 --> 0:28:44.733 I'll give them the hopeful you disagree with me, you 0:28:44.733 --> 0:28:47.013 come to the front line. But they can't do that 0:28:47.293 --> 0:28:50.973 because they themselves are kind of epistemic victims. They themselves 0:28:51.013 --> 0:28:53.453 are trapped in their own web of deceit and lies, 0:28:53.973 --> 0:28:57.333 and they're they're really they're trying to institutionalize these ideas 0:28:57.453 --> 0:28:59.773 virtue signal that they believe these things, think that they're 0:28:59.813 --> 0:29:03.133 better people, so they don't participate in dialogue. Okay, well, 0:29:03.173 --> 0:29:06.613 then then you're contributing to the problem. You're contributing to 0:29:06.693 --> 0:29:09.213 the Again, the best words admit of a miseration. You're 0:29:09.253 --> 0:29:12.493 contributing to the miseration of the Maori. There's no reason 0:29:12.573 --> 0:29:15.373 people anybody can put shoes on their feet. And if 0:29:15.413 --> 0:29:18.813 the kid legitimately can't afford shoes, I guess this is 0:29:18.853 --> 0:29:24.973 my leftist impulse for economics, then then the school should 0:29:24.933 --> 0:29:27.933 buy them shoes. If a kid can't afford healthcare, I mean, 0:29:27.973 --> 0:29:29.693 I guess I'm a leftist in that sense too. I 0:29:29.773 --> 0:29:31.653 think that anybody up to the age of eighteen to 0:29:31.733 --> 0:29:34.533 twenty one should be afforded public health care. 0:29:34.573 --> 0:29:38.733 What's your angle on school lunches. 0:29:39.733 --> 0:29:44.493 Well, again, so the view that I adopt, and I 0:29:44.533 --> 0:29:48.493 strongly believe that this is a rationally derivable view, is 0:29:48.533 --> 0:29:51.893 that John Rawlsey interview. We shouldn't try to fix outcomes 0:29:51.973 --> 0:29:56.333 through affirmative action or diversity hires. We should so it's 0:29:56.333 --> 0:29:58.413 not a quality of outcome. We don't want so many 0:29:58.493 --> 0:30:01.973 physicians to our Maori. We want opportunities for people. We 0:30:02.013 --> 0:30:04.493 want a quality of opportunity. And the best way to 0:30:04.493 --> 0:30:07.133 give a quality of opportunity, for example, in school lunches 0:30:07.213 --> 0:30:09.413 is everybody should not only have public education in the 0:30:09.413 --> 0:30:12.613 first rate. But everybody should have fantastic food, they should 0:30:12.613 --> 0:30:14.773 have great vegila, and if that means that we have 0:30:14.933 --> 0:30:15.973 higher taxes. 0:30:15.693 --> 0:30:18.293 Then will so be it. But that is when you 0:30:18.373 --> 0:30:19.093 have when you. 0:30:19.093 --> 0:30:20.773 Try to do the best that you can as a 0:30:20.813 --> 0:30:23.573 society to have strong institutions to level the playing field. 0:30:23.973 --> 0:30:26.213 And then if you don't have Maori doctors, you don't 0:30:26.213 --> 0:30:28.173 have them. But you don't try to just make more 0:30:28.173 --> 0:30:31.213 Maori doctors by admitting then people who aren't qualified. You 0:30:31.293 --> 0:30:34.773 try to give young people a quality of opportunities so 0:30:34.853 --> 0:30:38.533 they can rise and achieve in the society and then 0:30:38.973 --> 0:30:40.213 let the chips fall where they may. 0:30:40.853 --> 0:30:44.373 How do you break the custom hold on groups of 0:30:44.373 --> 0:30:48.533 people growing up with and being can I say brainwashed 0:30:48.733 --> 0:30:54.213 with customing habits? Well, we're all brainwashed and indoctrinated with 0:30:54.413 --> 0:30:58.093 with you know, you're you're talking about escaping escaping the 0:30:58.133 --> 0:31:01.293 thousand years true, and if you're going to have them 0:31:01.493 --> 0:31:05.933 as part of your initial education first seven years stuff, 0:31:06.133 --> 0:31:07.733 then how do they break out of that? 0:31:08.813 --> 0:31:12.573 I said, very it's a very complicated question. The number 0:31:12.653 --> 0:31:15.493 one thing is that you don't have people And again 0:31:15.533 --> 0:31:18.333 I'm trying to not make this political or ideological but 0:31:18.373 --> 0:31:21.733 it just simply is. And I'll criticize the right in 0:31:21.773 --> 0:31:24.573 a minute. You don't have people on the left saying, oh, 0:31:25.453 --> 0:31:27.533 you know, they're not good enough, we need to lower 0:31:27.533 --> 0:31:31.413 the standards. You don't have people who patronize them on 0:31:31.493 --> 0:31:34.133 the left. You don't have people who make exceptions or excuses. 0:31:34.853 --> 0:31:37.613 You treat everybody fairly. I guess on the right you 0:31:37.693 --> 0:31:41.053 see a kind of I think the right, at least 0:31:41.053 --> 0:31:42.693 I can't speak to this country, but the right in 0:31:42.693 --> 0:31:45.493 America has been a catastrophic failure on that. They're just 0:31:46.093 --> 0:31:49.133 expecting that people who come from you know, this isn't 0:31:49.173 --> 0:31:53.973 only racial people who come from poor socioeconomic backgrounds, broken homes, 0:31:53.973 --> 0:31:57.853 et cetera. They're expecting them to just achieve. In Detroit, 0:31:57.933 --> 0:32:00.213 certain school systems in Detroit, people have to bring in 0:32:00.253 --> 0:32:06.933 their own toilet paper. That's a public disgrace, right, yeah, 0:32:06.973 --> 0:32:09.093 it's a disgrace. It's as can tell you a crazy 0:32:09.093 --> 0:32:12.333 story about my kids school. You met my son who 0:32:13.013 --> 0:32:15.733 they closed all the men's rooms in the schools, so 0:32:15.773 --> 0:32:18.293 they had to go to someplace else when they wanted 0:32:18.333 --> 0:32:19.933 to use the restroom, the toilets. 0:32:19.933 --> 0:32:21.693 But I think the right has been. 0:32:21.613 --> 0:32:26.973 A failure, and they've not funded or gave adequate funding 0:32:27.733 --> 0:32:29.893 to the things they should have. And as a consequence 0:32:29.893 --> 0:32:33.013 for that, we get a bunch of truly, truly crazy 0:32:33.053 --> 0:32:38.493 people on the left advocating completely insane ideas, and that 0:32:38.613 --> 0:32:42.013 has That was a spell that was cast over the 0:32:42.053 --> 0:32:44.973 whole society. That only now was Trump is at being loosened. 0:32:45.373 --> 0:32:50.613 The diversity, equity, inclusion, the well, anything that falls under 0:32:50.653 --> 0:32:51.173 that umbrella. 0:32:51.293 --> 0:32:53.613 You don't think you're racing too well the finish line 0:32:53.653 --> 0:32:54.053 too early. 0:32:54.893 --> 0:32:57.053 No, I think these people, I think the average American 0:32:57.093 --> 0:33:00.453 is sick of it. But I do think that the bureaucrats, 0:33:00.493 --> 0:33:04.493 the apparatuic chicks are still in the institutions. They're still 0:33:04.533 --> 0:33:07.533 in the educational institutions. They're still in colleges of education 0:33:07.613 --> 0:33:10.093 and teacher training programs. And it's is going to take 0:33:10.133 --> 0:33:15.293 a long time to finally extirpate the last vestiges of 0:33:15.333 --> 0:33:18.853 the derangement syndrome that's overtaken us. It's going to take 0:33:18.853 --> 0:33:21.493 a while, but Trump has. I mean, if you've seen 0:33:21.493 --> 0:33:23.653 the videos of like Trump going or random places like 0:33:23.813 --> 0:33:27.573 La casinos, I'm not La. Yeah, people are cheering him, 0:33:27.573 --> 0:33:30.733 et cetera. Like I think he has right now, he 0:33:30.813 --> 0:33:34.933 has he certainly has the mandate by votes. But you know, 0:33:35.133 --> 0:33:36.253 you know, and that's the other thing. A lot of 0:33:36.253 --> 0:33:37.973 these people are on the run. They know he's coming 0:33:38.013 --> 0:33:40.853 for them, they know he's and they should be terrified 0:33:41.373 --> 0:33:44.933 because they've thrown the whole society in assesspool for fifteen 0:33:45.013 --> 0:33:46.733 at least fifteen years, probably twenty. 0:33:47.173 --> 0:33:49.693 Where would you start with accountability for that? 0:33:51.493 --> 0:33:55.733 It's hard because the people when you've changed the raison 0:33:55.813 --> 0:33:59.293 detra of the institutions, when you've you've changed the mission 0:33:59.293 --> 0:34:04.493 of the institutions, they these folks believe that they're accountable 0:34:05.573 --> 0:34:09.973 to you know, you mentioned Gad said pretty much exogenous values. 0:34:10.013 --> 0:34:13.453 You know, these are values that have paresthetized liberalism. I 0:34:13.453 --> 0:34:15.573 wrote about that in my first book in twenty thirteen. 0:34:16.253 --> 0:34:21.053 These are not values that are endemic to liberalism, you know, 0:34:21.133 --> 0:34:22.133 the idea that. 0:34:22.653 --> 0:34:24.493 It By and large, they b. 0:34:26.053 --> 0:34:30.693 They bartered class for race and gender, and so they're 0:34:30.813 --> 0:34:33.893 obsessed with anything that has an identity level salience because 0:34:33.933 --> 0:34:37.013 completely obsessed by it, and so they're willing to do 0:34:37.253 --> 0:34:42.213 literally crazy things like completely destroy institutions, destroy the family, 0:34:42.373 --> 0:34:43.773 like truly crazy things. 0:34:44.213 --> 0:34:46.613 And what makes them what drives them to do that. 0:34:47.053 --> 0:34:49.053 I mean, why do they do it, Why did they 0:34:49.053 --> 0:34:50.733 do it? And why do they get the idea in 0:34:50.773 --> 0:34:53.853 the first place? Then what drives them to try and 0:34:53.893 --> 0:34:56.773 fulfill it? Are they aware of the damage they're doing. 0:34:57.413 --> 0:34:59.373 No, they want to do the damage because they think 0:34:59.413 --> 0:35:04.773 that the society itself is racist, patriarchal, homophobic, ableists. 0:35:04.813 --> 0:35:06.773 Have you heard any arguments that count of that that 0:35:07.133 --> 0:35:09.013 make you think, well, maybe they run. 0:35:09.653 --> 0:35:11.693 Well, no, because they don't talk to you. They don't 0:35:11.733 --> 0:35:15.173 engage in conversation, because conversation is as Aubrey Lord said, 0:35:15.773 --> 0:35:21.573 the Master's tools cannot disable to dismantle the Master's house. Conversation, dialogue, dialectic, 0:35:22.373 --> 0:35:24.133 all of those things at the root of the problem. 0:35:24.213 --> 0:35:24.533 That's why. 0:35:24.613 --> 0:35:26.093 One of the reasons they don't talk to you, that's 0:35:26.133 --> 0:35:28.493 one of the reasons they so. My writing partner, my 0:35:28.533 --> 0:35:31.453 primary writing partner, James Lindsay, is coming to New Zealand, 0:35:31.493 --> 0:35:34.533 to Auckland and around New Zealand next month. And I 0:35:34.613 --> 0:35:37.533 told Jonathan from the Free Speech Union that they brought 0:35:37.533 --> 0:35:40.053 me down here on tour. I'm like, listen, he should 0:35:40.093 --> 0:35:42.253 not be given any talks. I'll take exactly what he 0:35:42.253 --> 0:35:44.573 should be doing. He should be debating people, and that's 0:35:44.573 --> 0:35:46.413 what you should do every single day, seven days a week. 0:35:46.973 --> 0:35:48.813 I think he's here for ten days or something. He 0:35:48.853 --> 0:35:50.773 should just debate people, and you call him out, name 0:35:50.813 --> 0:35:53.493 and shame him. I go after every single one of 0:35:53.533 --> 0:35:57.053 these people, like the New Zealand Herald. I'd target every 0:35:57.093 --> 0:35:59.733 single one of them, these far left maniacs who have 0:36:00.053 --> 0:36:02.933 actively just tried to destroy the civilization, and I would 0:36:02.933 --> 0:36:04.973 call him out. I would name and shame them, and 0:36:04.973 --> 0:36:06.933 I would say, you want to play by the you 0:36:06.973 --> 0:36:09.453 want to see at the adulta. You come and you 0:36:09.453 --> 0:36:11.933 have a debate. We've brought our guy, let's go. They 0:36:11.933 --> 0:36:13.653 won't do it. They won't do it because they're cowards, 0:36:13.693 --> 0:36:16.653 and they know at some level that what they say 0:36:16.813 --> 0:36:21.093 is not sustainable, it's not rationally drivable. It's conspicuously ideological. 0:36:21.133 --> 0:36:24.693 And these people are not only intellectual midwies, but complete 0:36:24.733 --> 0:36:28.133 cowards because if they weren't, but prove me wrong, prove 0:36:28.133 --> 0:36:30.773 me wrong, great, prove me wrong. Have them come and debate. Jim, 0:36:31.013 --> 0:36:35.253 you're not a coward. You think your ideas are rationally drivable. 0:36:35.293 --> 0:36:37.453 You're not an idealogue. Great James Lindsay will be here 0:36:37.493 --> 0:36:38.933 in March, we're going to set up debates. 0:36:39.133 --> 0:36:44.053 Okay, here's I think this is a fair question. Sometimes 0:36:44.053 --> 0:36:47.653 I hate being fair. You've got somebody who's coming who's 0:36:47.653 --> 0:36:51.533 an expert, knowledge, speaking, power, approach everything. Right. 0:36:51.933 --> 0:36:54.053 Well, he's a content knowledge expert. 0:36:54.573 --> 0:36:57.213 So he's he's top of top of his grade, right. 0:36:58.453 --> 0:37:00.253 I mean, I mean he's my writing partner, he's a 0:37:00.293 --> 0:37:03.973 friend of mine, and I think so, okay, that's my opinion. 0:37:04.013 --> 0:37:06.813 Okay, yeah, so it's not everybody that can that can 0:37:06.973 --> 0:37:12.573 argue successfully what they might think. Okay, so you're saying 0:37:12.613 --> 0:37:14.333 that they should come along and be destroyed. 0:37:14.613 --> 0:37:16.573 I'm saying that, Well, then maybe there's a reason to 0:37:16.973 --> 0:37:19.373 reconsider what you believe. Maybe there's a reason to that's 0:37:19.373 --> 0:37:20.213 a reason to be more. 0:37:20.173 --> 0:37:24.173 Humble because you can you can have an opinion about something. Yeah, 0:37:24.613 --> 0:37:28.893 believe believe something, but lack the ability to express that 0:37:28.933 --> 0:37:30.773 appropriately in a verbal battle. 0:37:30.893 --> 0:37:33.933 But belief is not binary. It's not on off, belief takes. 0:37:35.093 --> 0:37:38.013 Belief is on like a Likert scale, strongly agree, agree, 0:37:38.093 --> 0:37:41.773 Like that's just not how belief operates. But okay, we'll 0:37:41.773 --> 0:37:44.053 give them ten guys. I'll put Jim against ten guys 0:37:44.093 --> 0:37:45.693 from the New Zealand Herald. I'll call out the whole 0:37:45.693 --> 0:37:48.653 New Zealand harold all of them, the editors and the staff, 0:37:49.013 --> 0:37:49.413 all of them. 0:37:49.773 --> 0:37:52.213 You any need to, and I can provide you with names. Yeah, 0:37:52.293 --> 0:37:54.613 well give it. Okay, So there's something people in New 0:37:54.693 --> 0:37:56.813 Zealand don't do. Name them. Go ahead, name them. I'll 0:37:56.893 --> 0:37:58.013 name them. I'll tweet them out. 0:37:58.093 --> 0:38:01.333 I'll personally challenge them to debate James lindsay, are they 0:38:01.413 --> 0:38:06.813 left as maniacs? Are they identitarian lunatics? They're perfect. I 0:38:06.893 --> 0:38:10.293 want them to feel what it's like for the damage 0:38:10.413 --> 0:38:13.573 that they have caused, for the madness that they have 0:38:13.613 --> 0:38:15.973 inflicted on society. Now I can't speak to these people 0:38:15.973 --> 0:38:19.093 as individuals, but I can say that their ilk and 0:38:19.133 --> 0:38:22.413 the legacy media, and the lies and the corruption they 0:38:22.453 --> 0:38:26.013 have spread, and the fact that they've used their platform, 0:38:26.133 --> 0:38:30.333 you know x formally Twitter has made the legacy media 0:38:31.013 --> 0:38:34.373 irrelevant to a certain extent. But if you want to 0:38:34.413 --> 0:38:37.373 make the claim that, okay, well some people can't defend 0:38:37.413 --> 0:38:39.893 what they believe, then my response to you is maybe 0:38:40.013 --> 0:38:40.893 they shouldn't believe it. 0:38:41.413 --> 0:38:42.213 I'm an atheist. 0:38:42.413 --> 0:38:45.093 I could put out a tweet or something tomorrow saying 0:38:45.133 --> 0:38:47.693 I'm leaving Auckland in a week. I would like to 0:38:47.733 --> 0:38:52.093 debate Christians. I would like to challenge Christians. I literally 0:38:52.173 --> 0:38:53.813 I could do that round. I have a one hundred Christians 0:38:53.853 --> 0:38:56.333 lining up to debate me. I guarantee you, I can 0:38:56.373 --> 0:38:59.733 tell you with total confidence that's true. The apologists would 0:38:59.733 --> 0:39:02.453 come out of the woodwork. You cannot do that with 0:39:02.533 --> 0:39:07.133 the identitarian left. I mean, look, the New Zealand Herald 0:39:07.813 --> 0:39:11.293 is a discretion race. It's just a disgrace. It's an 0:39:11.333 --> 0:39:14.613 it's it's filled with ideologues. It's like the Guardian. The 0:39:14.693 --> 0:39:17.813 Guardian is is just a an organ of the Democratic 0:39:17.853 --> 0:39:22.213 Party of Labor. I mean that's you have to call 0:39:22.253 --> 0:39:25.053 these people out. You can't push, you can't push your 0:39:25.053 --> 0:39:26.813 foot around. You just have to call them out. 0:39:26.893 --> 0:39:30.973 You do realize there is a there's another media athletic 0:39:31.053 --> 0:39:31.693 that's worth. 0:39:32.133 --> 0:39:36.093 Which one stuff. Well, let's let's get them to debate too. 0:39:36.173 --> 0:39:37.893 Let's get them with James Lindsay. 0:39:37.773 --> 0:39:40.613 They want debate, they want, they want, they want print 0:39:40.653 --> 0:39:43.093 you later, they want they won't give you the space. 0:39:43.453 --> 0:39:46.013 Okay, then you know what would make make a rational 0:39:46.053 --> 0:39:48.173 person respect them? If they say, listen, you know we're 0:39:48.213 --> 0:39:50.373 not going to debate because we're ideologues. We have no 0:39:50.453 --> 0:39:52.973 reason to believe what we're going to we believe other 0:39:53.013 --> 0:39:55.293 than it make it gives us status that we jockey 0:39:55.293 --> 0:39:58.373 for in our own communities. If you said that, if 0:39:58.413 --> 0:40:02.053 they came out and said that, okay, we're conspicuous ideologues, 0:40:02.093 --> 0:40:04.613 there's really no reason to believe it. We just want 0:40:04.613 --> 0:40:07.853 to gain, we want a virtue signal. Okay, great, that's 0:40:08.013 --> 0:40:10.773 then they're honest. So they're also dishonest because they don't 0:40:10.813 --> 0:40:11.133 say that. 0:40:12.213 --> 0:40:12.933 I mean, you can't. 0:40:12.933 --> 0:40:16.093 So people in New Zealand are really nice, they're really pleasant, 0:40:16.213 --> 0:40:18.893 they're just but this is a cultural war. Like you 0:40:19.413 --> 0:40:21.293 have to get over that, Like you have to call 0:40:21.373 --> 0:40:26.093 these people out. They're attempting to brainwash citizens and they're 0:40:26.133 --> 0:40:30.653 not willing to they're not willing to defend their ideas 0:40:30.693 --> 0:40:33.813 in a public venue. A shame on you. 0:40:33.933 --> 0:40:36.053 Now, what kicked this off was my question to you 0:40:36.333 --> 0:40:39.853 about who was most who would you hold most responsible? Yeah, 0:40:39.933 --> 0:40:44.213 legacy media exactly. That was the answer that I would 0:40:44.213 --> 0:40:46.653 have given your legacy media. And well I wouldn't have 0:40:46.693 --> 0:40:49.693 even called it legacy media. But you know, because there's 0:40:49.573 --> 0:40:53.493 the other sorts of media that's just as bad. Maybe. 0:40:53.573 --> 0:40:58.653 I mean I heard a little of an American commentator 0:40:58.653 --> 0:41:06.933 on the radio this morning who was as usual because 0:41:07.013 --> 0:41:10.573 right from the very get go, when Trump came down 0:41:10.613 --> 0:41:13.573 the escalator, this guy I headed in for him, sure, 0:41:14.173 --> 0:41:19.333 and and he rips him at every opportunity he can get. 0:41:19.613 --> 0:41:21.893 And this morning he was he was picking up, he 0:41:22.013 --> 0:41:24.933 was picking up points of what Trump's done in this 0:41:25.173 --> 0:41:35.133 in this first period, and well either faking it or 0:41:35.253 --> 0:41:39.533 lying about what the what the real story was. Yeah, 0:41:39.973 --> 0:41:44.653 I mean, I'm used to it, and therefore it usually 0:41:44.733 --> 0:41:47.933 saves me the trouble of sweating over it because I 0:41:47.973 --> 0:41:50.613 don't listen. This morning, I caught it accidentally. 0:41:50.773 --> 0:41:53.133 All right, listen, I want to I want to linger 0:41:53.173 --> 0:41:54.893 on this because I think this is really important. Let's 0:41:54.893 --> 0:41:57.893 go back to what you just said. Okay, So these 0:41:57.933 --> 0:42:01.893 people they're not expert debaters or they have no they're 0:42:01.933 --> 0:42:04.733 not used to speaking in front of the public. Great, okay, great, 0:42:04.773 --> 0:42:07.733 no problem. I have zero problem with that. Why don't 0:42:07.773 --> 0:42:11.493 you find four or five academics. Why don't you find 0:42:11.493 --> 0:42:13.253 people who move it fairly high? I mean, there's a 0:42:13.293 --> 0:42:17.053 country of five million people. Find people fairly high in 0:42:17.093 --> 0:42:18.933 the public space and say these people were going to 0:42:18.973 --> 0:42:21.053 host a debate in New Zealand. Herold is going to 0:42:21.093 --> 0:42:24.293 host the debate James lindsay versus our experts, like or 0:42:24.293 --> 0:42:26.093 they don't even have to say our experts. We're gonna 0:42:26.093 --> 0:42:28.693 invite and I guarantee he'll show, he'll come. Well, why 0:42:28.733 --> 0:42:30.893 don't they do that? They can make money from it. 0:42:30.933 --> 0:42:33.573 They'll sell tickets, they can monetize it on YouTube. They 0:42:33.613 --> 0:42:35.453 probably make ten grand easy. 0:42:36.053 --> 0:42:39.053 You probably feel this. So they don't do it, not. 0:42:39.133 --> 0:42:42.053 Because they can't find people, but because they know their 0:42:42.093 --> 0:42:43.413 ideas are bankrupt. 0:42:43.613 --> 0:42:45.173 They just know they're not true. 0:42:45.973 --> 0:42:48.453 Look, if you if you got somebody here. 0:42:49.293 --> 0:42:50.773 Look, they don't know that I can agree with you. 0:42:50.893 --> 0:42:53.493 They don't know. They don't know that it's not true. 0:42:53.533 --> 0:42:56.773 Look look, look, let's say that I had somebody coming 0:42:56.813 --> 0:43:01.493 here who was an expert in I don't know, electromagnetism 0:43:01.773 --> 0:43:04.973 or you know, radioactivity or something, and then I got 0:43:04.973 --> 0:43:06.613 a bunch of other people who are like, well, you 0:43:06.613 --> 0:43:09.053 know what. Or I have someone here who doesn't believe 0:43:09.053 --> 0:43:12.213 there's any such thing as electromagnetism. And let's say he 0:43:12.293 --> 0:43:16.653 has a massive political plat, a massive platform across social media. 0:43:17.013 --> 0:43:18.813 You have no problem finding people to do it. You know, 0:43:18.853 --> 0:43:20.813 there are a bunch of people who actually believe, like 0:43:20.853 --> 0:43:23.973 Mark Sergeant, that the Earth is flat. They literally believe 0:43:23.973 --> 0:43:27.933 that the Earth is flat. Mark Sergeant. I had him 0:43:27.933 --> 0:43:30.053 come in for a guest lecture in my class once. 0:43:30.173 --> 0:43:33.293 It was fascinating, like he actually believes the Earth is flat. 0:43:33.413 --> 0:43:37.653 But my point to you is, if you're not willing 0:43:38.373 --> 0:43:42.453 to defend your ideas publicly, if you're not willing to 0:43:43.213 --> 0:43:46.333 be more humble about what you claim to believe, then 0:43:46.333 --> 0:43:49.013 at the very least you should be able to present 0:43:49.173 --> 0:43:53.653 experts for people. When somebody comes to the country and 0:43:53.693 --> 0:43:55.773 you don't have to pay him, so there's not a 0:43:55.853 --> 0:43:59.293 financial argument there, so that people can hear the argument 0:43:59.293 --> 0:44:00.493 and decide for themselves. 0:44:01.093 --> 0:44:01.693 So you should. 0:44:01.853 --> 0:44:06.093 Your goal is not to indoctrinate people ideologically. Your goal 0:44:06.133 --> 0:44:09.053 is to present the news and have people made decisions 0:44:09.493 --> 0:44:10.973 for themselves. You're laughing. 0:44:13.613 --> 0:44:15.813 I'm laughing silently, and it's killing me. 0:44:17.453 --> 0:44:19.653 Yeah. I mean, I feel really strongly about this because 0:44:20.373 --> 0:44:24.693 because I think it's a tremendous problem that's overtaken the West. 0:44:25.493 --> 0:44:29.573 The ideological capture of our institutions is a tremendous problem, 0:44:29.893 --> 0:44:32.093 and That's why I think the move that we need 0:44:32.133 --> 0:44:34.493 to make now or in New Zealand is we have 0:44:34.573 --> 0:44:37.533 to call out these people. We have to name names, 0:44:38.053 --> 0:44:40.933 we have to call it specific people for what they're doing, 0:44:41.013 --> 0:44:44.933 for the damage they're doing to society. The trans thing 0:44:45.013 --> 0:44:48.133 is another thing. That's another form of damage that they're 0:44:48.133 --> 0:44:51.053 doing to children. I mean, the damage that these people 0:44:51.053 --> 0:44:52.613 are doing is more or less endless. 0:44:53.013 --> 0:44:56.813 Well we go on with that. There's two words that 0:44:56.933 --> 0:45:00.213 stress strung together. Say it all. Now. I had a 0:45:00.253 --> 0:45:02.973 guy once tell me there is no such thing as 0:45:03.013 --> 0:45:03.693 common sense. 0:45:04.213 --> 0:45:06.693 Well, I would have said to him, well, first I 0:45:06.733 --> 0:45:08.613 would have asked him to defy it, but I would have 0:45:08.613 --> 0:45:10.373 said to that if that's not the case, then why 0:45:10.373 --> 0:45:12.293 don't more people die from just wandering out into the 0:45:12.333 --> 0:45:13.013 middle of the street. 0:45:13.533 --> 0:45:19.493 I'll just write that down. I mean, to have somebody 0:45:19.493 --> 0:45:23.773 say that to you in all sincerity, yeah, just leaves you. 0:45:23.853 --> 0:45:24.933 It leaves you speechless. 0:45:25.253 --> 0:45:26.853 Well, yeah, I mean I The first thing that I 0:45:26.893 --> 0:45:29.933 thought of was just to think of cross cultural examples 0:45:29.973 --> 0:45:32.173 where people had common sense, like putting her hand on 0:45:32.213 --> 0:45:34.613 a stove, like if it really wasn't true, then you'd 0:45:34.613 --> 0:45:37.253 have the number of people who would be randomly, or 0:45:37.293 --> 0:45:40.733 who would not randomly, who would be injured from things 0:45:40.773 --> 0:45:43.813 that you would think common sense would be a prophylactic against, 0:45:43.813 --> 0:45:45.973 would be just in order. In fact, it would almost 0:45:45.973 --> 0:45:47.813 be infinite if there were those things, as common sense, 0:45:47.853 --> 0:45:51.413 I'd open that door and walk off the balcony. Right, 0:45:51.573 --> 0:45:53.533 So I just don't. I mean, that just seems to me, 0:45:53.693 --> 0:45:55.013 on the face of it to be false. 0:45:55.733 --> 0:45:59.693 I'm just thinking of another example. Yeah, and it involves 0:46:00.013 --> 0:46:03.013 the corporal punishment. Okay, so your kids sticking a knife 0:46:03.053 --> 0:46:06.413 into the into the light socket, or he's about to 0:46:06.413 --> 0:46:08.613 put his hand on the on the stove for the 0:46:08.773 --> 0:46:09.413 second time. 0:46:09.573 --> 0:46:11.213 Yeah, usually it only takes once. 0:46:11.253 --> 0:46:13.973 But okay, yeah, but he didn't get there, I said, 0:46:14.253 --> 0:46:16.773 going to put his hand on okay for the second time. Yeah, 0:46:16.813 --> 0:46:19.653 you've already warned him off. Yeah, it's a little four 0:46:19.733 --> 0:46:22.533 year old or whatever. Yeah. What do you do on 0:46:22.573 --> 0:46:27.453 the second occasion when he's being disobedient and about to 0:46:27.493 --> 0:46:31.413 burn himself? Well, I'm gonna say, wipe out his hand forever? Maybe? Okay, 0:46:31.413 --> 0:46:32.453 Well those are different. 0:46:32.493 --> 0:46:35.373 If the stove is just hot and he's gonna burn 0:46:35.373 --> 0:46:37.773 his hand, you let him burn his hand. But if 0:46:37.853 --> 0:46:39.773 the stove is red hot, you do not let him 0:46:39.773 --> 0:46:40.453 put his hand. 0:46:40.253 --> 0:46:47.013 On the stove. Is it not appropriate to take the 0:46:47.053 --> 0:46:51.613 first example? Yeah, and deal with it then, so that 0:46:51.093 --> 0:46:55.493 the second example doesn't have to be played out only if. 0:46:55.333 --> 0:46:59.893 He knows there's this reason that it's not being imposed 0:46:59.893 --> 0:47:02.693 on him externally. If he knows that, once he understands 0:47:02.733 --> 0:47:04.653 the reason for why he shouldn't or she shouldn't put 0:47:04.653 --> 0:47:07.453 her hand on the stove, and then that's just a 0:47:07.453 --> 0:47:10.533 trial and error thing. Haven't touched a hot stove. I mean, 0:47:10.573 --> 0:47:12.293 I have no problem with I used to do in 0:47:12.373 --> 0:47:13.733 my kids when they did stupid shit. 0:47:14.013 --> 0:47:16.813 Did you punish your kids physically? No? Never? 0:47:16.933 --> 0:47:17.693 Never, never ever? 0:47:17.893 --> 0:47:18.133 Why? 0:47:20.453 --> 0:47:22.973 I guess a certain extent I might have. I guess 0:47:23.053 --> 0:47:25.173 got lucky with great kids. But I don't really believe 0:47:25.173 --> 0:47:27.493 in corporal punishment. I think that there are other ways. 0:47:27.613 --> 0:47:30.013 That's the point that I'm that I'm arguing with. We 0:47:30.133 --> 0:47:34.653 we had a corporal punishment band, Yeah, put the whole country. 0:47:34.973 --> 0:47:39.853 Yeah, and in schools or for parents hitting their kids anyway, okay, okay, 0:47:40.293 --> 0:47:41.173 anyone anyway. 0:47:41.333 --> 0:47:44.613 Yeah, so that you your kid, your kid disobeys you 0:47:44.653 --> 0:47:48.693 because he's a little monster. Yeah, and you can't literally 0:47:48.693 --> 0:47:49.573 Smakey's backside. 0:47:49.613 --> 0:47:52.173 Yeah, the same Denmark. Other countries, you know they have. 0:47:52.973 --> 0:47:56.253 So if you're asking me what I think about that, 0:47:57.013 --> 0:47:59.253 I don't really know. I think that's the kind of 0:47:59.293 --> 0:48:01.653 thing that seems like a moral question, but it's really 0:48:01.653 --> 0:48:02.693 an empirical question. 0:48:03.213 --> 0:48:03.893 It's like, what is that? 0:48:04.453 --> 0:48:07.133 You know, we have these moral sensibilities about it, but 0:48:07.133 --> 0:48:10.333 I think it's really and there are so many variables 0:48:10.373 --> 0:48:12.453 it's hard to tease out. But I guess you'd have 0:48:12.493 --> 0:48:15.853 to just look at the data for how effective is it. 0:48:16.173 --> 0:48:19.533 I will say that if my mentor told me an 0:48:19.573 --> 0:48:26.053 interesting story. He never raised his voice at his kids, 0:48:26.213 --> 0:48:30.093 or certainly never hit them. And then one day his 0:48:30.253 --> 0:48:34.013 son wanted to get a tattoo and he slammed his 0:48:34.053 --> 0:48:36.653 foot in his fists on the table and he screamed no, 0:48:37.213 --> 0:48:40.533 and his son was freaked out. And he told me that, 0:48:41.573 --> 0:48:44.093 So this is fucking If you don't mind, I'll just 0:48:44.133 --> 0:48:45.733 go down this rabbit hole for a second. He told 0:48:45.773 --> 0:48:52.013 me this super interesting story about his neighbors. You know, 0:48:52.053 --> 0:48:55.413 the guy is always yelling in his kid, your shit, 0:48:55.533 --> 0:48:56.493 your life is worthless. 0:48:56.493 --> 0:48:57.773 You're never gonna mount to anything. 0:48:58.333 --> 0:49:00.693 And then you know, if a kid left his bike. 0:49:00.733 --> 0:49:03.773 In the car, he'd drive over his bike. The problem 0:49:03.813 --> 0:49:05.813 with that is that you well, there are many prompts 0:49:05.853 --> 0:49:08.533 that but among those is that you become inured to 0:49:08.613 --> 0:49:13.013 a censor, you become immune. He told me this story, 0:49:13.133 --> 0:49:15.373 this is if you give me and it indulge me 0:49:15.453 --> 0:49:17.413 for like a minute, it's a great story. So I 0:49:17.413 --> 0:49:20.333 think it is of chickens. So if you have chickens 0:49:20.813 --> 0:49:23.133 in a pen, there's a pecking order of the chickens. 0:49:23.493 --> 0:49:26.613 So Chicken one will pack all the chickens. Chicken two 0:49:26.733 --> 0:49:30.213 will get pecked by chicken one, but will not be 0:49:30.333 --> 0:49:32.773 packed by the other chickens. Chicken three will get pecked 0:49:32.773 --> 0:49:35.173 by one and two, and we'll pack the others. And 0:49:35.333 --> 0:49:39.893 he was a psychologist, and they tried to reverse the 0:49:39.933 --> 0:49:42.773 pecking order of the chickens to make chicken one chicken 0:49:42.853 --> 0:49:45.653 seven and chicken seven chicken one. And they did that 0:49:46.253 --> 0:49:50.453 by putting an electrical collar around the chicken's neck and 0:49:50.533 --> 0:49:53.293 giving them a zap, so whenever they like, can't see 0:49:53.293 --> 0:49:55.493 it her, but whenever they went down to pack another chicken, 0:49:55.493 --> 0:49:58.053 they'd zap it. So now my question to you is 0:49:58.453 --> 0:50:00.813 was it easier to make chicken one chicken seven or 0:50:00.893 --> 0:50:04.573 chicken seven chicken one. Yeah, it's a hard it's a 0:50:04.573 --> 0:50:07.173 hard question. How long have I got Yeah, it's a 0:50:07.213 --> 0:50:12.173 hard question. Yeah, I'll go for the last one. It's 0:50:12.213 --> 0:50:13.853 easier to make chicken seven chicken one. 0:50:14.013 --> 0:50:14.213 Yeah. 0:50:14.253 --> 0:50:16.373 So no, it's easier to make chicken one chicken seven 0:50:16.373 --> 0:50:20.013 because when chicken one doesn't get packed, one single jolt 0:50:20.173 --> 0:50:25.213 makes some chicken seven. So there's a profound lesson there 0:50:25.573 --> 0:50:30.373 in you know, recidivism, how we call programming, what program 0:50:30.413 --> 0:50:33.733 we give prisoners for, how we punish kids in school. 0:50:34.053 --> 0:50:36.013 If you're told your life is shit and you're never 0:50:36.053 --> 0:50:38.173 going to mount to anything by your father, then when 0:50:38.213 --> 0:50:42.053 you get to schools, you need increasingly harsh disciplinary punishments. 0:50:42.453 --> 0:50:45.733 But that's why we know, I mean, the data is 0:50:45.733 --> 0:50:47.973 pretty overwhelming that it doesn't work. You know, those Scared 0:50:48.013 --> 0:50:49.933 Straight programs that we had when I was growing up, 0:50:49.933 --> 0:50:52.013 when they had these guys come in and they who 0:50:52.053 --> 0:50:54.613 were in prison and there like these big tattoo muscle guys. 0:50:54.773 --> 0:50:58.053 The outcomes are pretty clear on that those didn't work. 0:50:58.813 --> 0:51:02.053 And among the reasons that harsh punishment doesn't work is 0:51:02.053 --> 0:51:05.573 because you're talking about people who are like chicken. You know, four, five, 0:51:05.613 --> 0:51:09.173 and six the most minor punishment. That's why the criminal 0:51:09.253 --> 0:51:11.533 justice system is in a sense backward. We should be 0:51:11.533 --> 0:51:14.333 punishing people most severely for their first defense. 0:51:15.093 --> 0:51:17.533 Well, i've realized that I'm What I meant to say 0:51:17.533 --> 0:51:19.613 when I opened my mouth was it's easy to make 0:51:19.653 --> 0:51:20.453 one number seven. 0:51:21.333 --> 0:51:24.933 Yes, yes, yeah, it's easier to make one seven. 0:51:24.973 --> 0:51:28.773 That's what it takes. One jolt, and so here's here's 0:51:28.773 --> 0:51:30.933 another one. Here's another way to think about it. 0:51:31.213 --> 0:51:33.253 My mentor was also telling me this story about a 0:51:33.253 --> 0:51:35.093 guy who kept punching himself in the head. He was 0:51:35.133 --> 0:51:37.973 in a mental institution, and they tried everything and they 0:51:37.973 --> 0:51:41.373 could not make this guy stop punching himself in the head. 0:51:41.893 --> 0:51:45.773 So what they did was they attached electrodes to his 0:51:45.973 --> 0:51:48.613 arms and when he went up to punch himself in 0:51:48.613 --> 0:51:51.653 the head. Yeah, it's a behaviorism. It's the same thing. 0:51:52.053 --> 0:51:54.613 And it took only two jolts for this guy to 0:51:54.653 --> 0:51:57.693 never punch himself in the head again. Now I'm going 0:51:57.693 --> 0:51:59.693 somewhere with this story because it gets back to an 0:51:59.693 --> 0:52:03.573 earlier question that you asked me. So, I don't know 0:52:03.573 --> 0:52:05.533 if your listeners will know what a VCR is. 0:52:06.053 --> 0:52:07.173 You know, yea. 0:52:07.533 --> 0:52:11.013 So he had that recorded on a VCR and he 0:52:11.173 --> 0:52:14.533 sent that. You know, those tapes used to get you know, 0:52:14.653 --> 0:52:17.493 messed up. When you played him enough, the tapes would 0:52:17.573 --> 0:52:20.773 kind So he sent that to the IT department and 0:52:21.453 --> 0:52:24.013 he told them to fix it, and it came back. 0:52:24.453 --> 0:52:26.733 They cut out the part where they zapp the guy. 0:52:27.173 --> 0:52:28.813 Now why did they cut out the part when they 0:52:28.893 --> 0:52:32.533 zapped the guy because it was against the ethics the 0:52:32.573 --> 0:52:36.573 ethics board, it said, it's showing the harmful exploitation of 0:52:37.493 --> 0:52:41.133 you know, people who are wards of the state. So 0:52:41.293 --> 0:52:46.053 is a consequence for that that critical piece of human 0:52:46.093 --> 0:52:48.653 knowledge that can be used to help people is now 0:52:48.693 --> 0:52:52.053 forever lost from the canon of knowledge. It's been erased. 0:52:52.733 --> 0:52:56.293 It's been erased. So that's an example. Because you asked me, 0:52:56.293 --> 0:52:59.413 how do we get in this situation, whether it's IQ 0:52:59.893 --> 0:53:02.573 or what have you. We got in the situation because 0:53:03.133 --> 0:53:06.653 we have norms that we've imposed upon, systems that have 0:53:07.493 --> 0:53:11.413 made the method of error correction less transparent and impossible to understand. 0:53:12.053 --> 0:53:14.133 That's how we're in this situation. It started with the 0:53:14.133 --> 0:53:19.653 French postmodernist Drria Leotard Fuco. It metastasized throughout our academic systems, 0:53:19.973 --> 0:53:22.613 and then we're in this nightmare situation that we're in 0:53:22.693 --> 0:53:25.973 now with these lunatics who have controlling institutions. I mean, 0:53:25.973 --> 0:53:28.253 these people are total lunatics. 0:53:27.693 --> 0:53:32.733 Is it now appropriate to draw on the most recent 0:53:32.813 --> 0:53:38.933 experience of American politics one thousand percent? Because you and 0:53:38.973 --> 0:53:41.053 I had a discussion a couple of days ago with 0:53:41.133 --> 0:53:45.173 regard to what was happening. I asked you how you 0:53:45.253 --> 0:53:49.173 reacted to the well to the election result, and what 0:53:49.333 --> 0:53:52.653 happened since January twenty. What was your response. 0:53:53.413 --> 0:53:57.813 I remember my exact response, but I will say Harris 0:53:57.893 --> 0:53:58.653 was an abomination. 0:53:59.133 --> 0:54:00.093 She's the worst. 0:53:59.893 --> 0:54:02.253 Possible person one could have picked. She would have been 0:54:02.293 --> 0:54:05.173 not only more of the same, but more racism, guys 0:54:05.213 --> 0:54:11.333 as anti racism, more anti meritic, detocracy, more division, more strife, 0:54:11.573 --> 0:54:16.253 more enmity, more illegals. I mean, truly the worst possible candidate. 0:54:16.253 --> 0:54:19.773 We could have had, more legacy, media and more. I mean, 0:54:19.813 --> 0:54:24.293 I could go on and on. I am incredibly relieved 0:54:24.893 --> 0:54:28.373 with seeing, among those things that are in my domain 0:54:28.413 --> 0:54:31.693 of expertise in purview, I am incredibly relieved to see 0:54:31.693 --> 0:54:34.493 some of the things Donald Trump has done. And to 0:54:34.533 --> 0:54:36.853 be clear, I think he is a deeply he was 0:54:36.893 --> 0:54:38.813 a deeply deeply flawed candidate. 0:54:39.133 --> 0:54:43.493 I'm sorry who Trump, It was a deeply flawed candidate. 0:54:43.813 --> 0:54:46.293 Yeah, but I think he's done a phenomenal job. He 0:54:46.413 --> 0:54:49.733 wasn't my first vivak Ramaswami I thought would have like 0:54:49.853 --> 0:54:53.613 he's sharp. But I think given the context, I think 0:54:53.653 --> 0:54:55.893 Trump is the man to do what he's doing. I mean, 0:54:55.933 --> 0:54:57.613 we need that in our country. 0:54:58.133 --> 0:55:01.493 That'd be quite just something. Sure why Activist politicians are 0:55:01.573 --> 0:55:04.173 up in arms this week after Trump signed orders effectively 0:55:04.213 --> 0:55:08.693 shutting down all DEI related officers within the government, seeing 0:55:09.053 --> 0:55:13.453 employees on paid leaf pending inevitable pink slips. The usual suspects, 0:55:13.493 --> 0:55:18.293 including House Minority Reader leader Hakim Jeffries and the Democrat 0:55:18.373 --> 0:55:22.373 rip ilhan Omer, held a press conference to voice their 0:55:22.373 --> 0:55:25.893 outrage over the fast paced elimination of DEI. And that's 0:55:25.973 --> 0:55:31.493 just the start. Good can't come soon enough. Democrats threaten 0:55:31.733 --> 0:55:36.013 righteous litigation over Trump's shutdown of the EI officers. That's 0:55:36.053 --> 0:55:39.933 the that's the headline. What chance have they got? Oh? 0:55:39.973 --> 0:55:40.453 I don't know. 0:55:40.533 --> 0:55:43.533 I mean, I probably not, probably not much. I think 0:55:43.573 --> 0:55:46.693 Americans are sick of it. I probably not much, but 0:55:46.733 --> 0:55:50.253 we'll see. Maybe the wage and effective campaign. I would 0:55:50.253 --> 0:55:53.613 say it's small. I mean, look, it's discriminated against people 0:55:53.653 --> 0:55:56.333 on the basis of their race, like Asian Americans are 0:55:56.373 --> 0:55:58.893 discriminated against in the base of the race for admissions 0:55:58.893 --> 0:55:59.893 to elite institutions. 0:56:00.533 --> 0:56:01.093 We know that. 0:56:01.733 --> 0:56:05.853 So you're but don't don't lie about what you're doing. 0:56:06.093 --> 0:56:09.133 Just say what you're doing. We don't want Asians, we 0:56:09.173 --> 0:56:10.293 hate Jews. Just say it. 0:56:11.053 --> 0:56:12.213 What would happen if they did so? 0:56:13.253 --> 0:56:16.573 Well, I wouldn't respect your beliefs, but I'd certainly respect 0:56:16.613 --> 0:56:20.013 them more. Well, thanks for being honest, you know when 0:56:20.053 --> 0:56:21.853 I used to say when you know, I had a 0:56:21.853 --> 0:56:24.813 debate with the Islamic scholar once and I couldn't get 0:56:24.853 --> 0:56:28.053 him to say that the punishment for apostases should be death. 0:56:28.413 --> 0:56:30.853 Finally he said it. It's a little I can tell 0:56:30.853 --> 0:56:32.893 you how I got him say it, but I at 0:56:32.973 --> 0:56:35.213 least respected him more for saying I would have respected 0:56:35.293 --> 0:56:37.493 him more if he set it up front. But don't, 0:56:38.213 --> 0:56:40.853 just don't deceive yourself. These people hate Jews and they 0:56:40.893 --> 0:56:42.573 hate Asians, and they should just say it, we hate 0:56:42.653 --> 0:56:44.693 Jews and we hate Asians. Okay, Well, then now we 0:56:44.733 --> 0:56:47.053 know who we're dealing with. Right now, now, no one's 0:56:47.093 --> 0:56:48.533 lying to each other. And we know you hate Jews 0:56:48.533 --> 0:56:49.893 and we know you hate Asians, so great, all. 0:56:49.853 --> 0:56:52.413 Right, Now, there are some sources, one in particular that 0:56:52.493 --> 0:56:55.173 I'm thinking of, some sources that will tell you that 0:56:55.293 --> 0:56:58.653 straight not because they believe it, because they know that 0:56:58.653 --> 0:57:01.133 that's what you just said is correct. And I'm talking 0:57:01.173 --> 0:57:05.293 about public figures. But there are very few of them 0:57:06.573 --> 0:57:10.573 who will simply call a spade of spade and call 0:57:10.613 --> 0:57:13.733 them out when when it's uh, when it's appropriate. So 0:57:14.413 --> 0:57:15.333 is that the media's fault. 0:57:16.053 --> 0:57:18.533 I think it's a combination of things. It's you know, 0:57:18.653 --> 0:57:21.653 it's it's it's a Calvin Trilling said that things are 0:57:21.693 --> 0:57:23.533 really attributable to a single cause. 0:57:24.133 --> 0:57:24.293 You know. 0:57:24.333 --> 0:57:28.573 I mean I've seen people holding on college campuses pro 0:57:28.693 --> 0:57:32.693 Hamas science. I mean Hamas is a terrorist organization. I've 0:57:32.853 --> 0:57:34.933 you know, at the Sydney Opera House there were cantidates. 0:57:34.933 --> 0:57:36.333 They're chanting gas the Jews. 0:57:36.333 --> 0:57:38.693 No no, no, no, no, no no no no no no. 0:57:38.853 --> 0:57:41.493 Are you're saying that? I think it was wigs the Jews. 0:57:42.053 --> 0:57:44.013 Oh no, they lied about it, right, they lied about it. 0:57:44.053 --> 0:57:46.573 But but but but that's the other thing that that 0:57:46.693 --> 0:57:48.653 but that makes my point, they're lying about it. 0:57:49.133 --> 0:57:51.973 They're just lying about it. So there are people say, 0:57:52.173 --> 0:57:55.613 so are the politicians, Well yeah, they're lying about it, 0:57:55.653 --> 0:57:58.133 and the police, well they're also lying about it. 0:57:58.133 --> 0:58:00.133 I'm saying you should if you hate Jews, just say 0:58:00.173 --> 0:58:03.293 I hate Jews if you will, like, there's no reason 0:58:03.333 --> 0:58:04.093 to lie about it. 0:58:05.053 --> 0:58:06.933 I think, I think in your part of the world 0:58:06.933 --> 0:58:09.133 there are plenty of people who are prepare to say that. 0:58:09.293 --> 0:58:12.693 Well yeah, well yeah, it doesn't mean I in fact, 0:58:12.733 --> 0:58:15.213 I detest those views. I think that they're an abomination. 0:58:15.613 --> 0:58:18.053 But at least they're being honest with you. You know, 0:58:18.133 --> 0:58:20.413 like with these people with the DEI, people with the 0:58:20.533 --> 0:58:24.533 radical identitarian leftists, they're they're they're even worse than that 0:58:24.653 --> 0:58:28.133 because that they're operating under a system, you know. I mean, 0:58:28.213 --> 0:58:30.173 did you see the whole Claudine Gay thing when she 0:58:30.213 --> 0:58:34.533 went before Congress. Remind me it's a it was so 0:58:34.733 --> 0:58:36.573 I mean, it was the really the beginning of the 0:58:36.653 --> 0:58:37.293 end of DEI. 0:58:37.693 --> 0:58:39.253 She was which which university? 0:58:39.733 --> 0:58:43.013 She's Harvard, She's the serial plasirest at Harvard. Yeah, and so, 0:58:43.613 --> 0:58:46.253 you know, the slightest thing is a microaggression if you say, 0:58:46.253 --> 0:58:47.013 you know, where are you from? 0:58:47.053 --> 0:58:47.533 What have you. 0:58:47.973 --> 0:58:50.653 But chanting death to the Jews is fine? Are you 0:58:50.733 --> 0:58:54.573 kidding me? Like? Are you kidding me? But that's who 0:58:54.653 --> 0:58:57.813 the type of people you're dealing with, and so let's 0:58:57.853 --> 0:58:59.973 I just think we need to be honest about who 0:58:59.973 --> 0:59:00.613 we're dealing with. 0:59:01.453 --> 0:59:05.653 Is is the transition, which is of course still underway, 0:59:05.733 --> 0:59:09.813 will be underway for quite some Timere's the transition likely 0:59:09.853 --> 0:59:12.653 to hold? Do you think? And I'm talking not just 0:59:12.733 --> 0:59:14.893 not just not just for the next couple of years, 0:59:14.933 --> 0:59:17.413 I mean, I mean, is it going to roll on 0:59:18.413 --> 0:59:21.173 because finally people have been working up. 0:59:21.453 --> 0:59:25.693 It's a great question, I with a potentially unintended pun 0:59:25.773 --> 0:59:30.053 of waking up. I think if you look at intellectual history, 0:59:30.613 --> 0:59:34.373 every generation is subject to a zeitgeist or a value. 0:59:34.413 --> 0:59:37.133 You know, in Homer's time it was strength, Aristotle's time 0:59:37.253 --> 0:59:41.373 was the Athenian gentleman. Voltaire's time it was humor. Every 0:59:41.413 --> 0:59:45.453 every society has some every kind of epica, every age 0:59:45.493 --> 0:59:49.973 has some value. Our society has been beset recently by 0:59:50.053 --> 0:59:55.573 multiple simultaneous mass delusions, and so it's very difficult to predict, 0:59:55.773 --> 0:59:59.293 to predict the next mass illusion, but suffice it to 0:59:59.333 --> 1:00:01.933 say it's coming. I don't I have some suspicions about 1:00:01.933 --> 1:00:06.013 what it is. That's kind of but who knows what 1:00:06.053 --> 1:00:08.773 it would be. But you can only addres us one 1:00:08.853 --> 1:00:12.213 mass illusion is at a time. It's very difficult to 1:00:12.253 --> 1:00:15.813 have a kind of universal prophylactic against people becoming delusional. 1:00:15.893 --> 1:00:19.453 It's almost impossible. That's why you need strong institutions. That's 1:00:19.493 --> 1:00:25.213 why you need corrective mechanisms. Capitalism, democracy, free speech. That's 1:00:25.213 --> 1:00:26.693 why those things are indispensable. 1:00:28.053 --> 1:00:30.693 Let's deal with free speech. Okay, just for a moment. Sure, 1:00:31.253 --> 1:00:34.733 how far can we cope with free speech being free 1:00:34.733 --> 1:00:36.413 speech in its fullness? 1:00:36.453 --> 1:00:40.173 Yeah, up to the incitement of violence? And then what happens, Oh, 1:00:40.253 --> 1:00:42.853 then it's illegal. There are other things that are illegal, 1:00:42.933 --> 1:00:47.733 like slander, defamation. I mean, we have a pretty robust 1:00:48.093 --> 1:00:52.373 pedigree in the legal infrastructure for this. You know, the 1:00:52.413 --> 1:00:55.573 history of jurisprudence is, you know, when we come from 1:00:55.573 --> 1:00:59.533 broadly the same tradition, although the Americans kind of veered off. 1:00:59.693 --> 1:01:01.653 We have a pretty good infrastructure for this, and. 1:01:02.213 --> 1:01:05.373 It's worked until it becomes violent. 1:01:06.013 --> 1:01:07.653 The incitement of violence. 1:01:07.693 --> 1:01:11.293 Yeah, well, well so so it happens, right, there's an 1:01:11.573 --> 1:01:15.413 there's an instance, and it's patently obvious and there's a conviction, 1:01:15.893 --> 1:01:18.853 So what what what do we do? And those words 1:01:18.853 --> 1:01:23.973 that were spoken? Or ban people who are speaking those words? No, 1:01:24.013 --> 1:01:26.813 I mean you know, and when you and when you've 1:01:26.973 --> 1:01:29.093 when you've got and this I have, I have to 1:01:29.093 --> 1:01:31.773 throw this in. Sure, when you've got X now doing 1:01:31.773 --> 1:01:34.173 the job that it's doing. I've seen some pretty rough 1:01:34.173 --> 1:01:34.853 stuff on there. 1:01:35.013 --> 1:01:40.333 Sure. So here's a good rule of thumb people can 1:01:40.373 --> 1:01:44.173 think about. Ideas do not deserve dignity. People deserve dignity. 1:01:44.693 --> 1:01:48.133 And so if you want to say what should or 1:01:48.173 --> 1:01:50.293 should not if you're trying to think of a how 1:01:50.293 --> 1:01:52.333 do I know what can what cannot? What I can 1:01:52.413 --> 1:01:55.133 or cannot say? I mean, there's a general rule of 1:01:55.173 --> 1:01:57.293 just don't be a dick. But the next rule down 1:01:57.373 --> 1:02:00.413 is if it's an immutable characteristic of a person, there's 1:02:00.413 --> 1:02:02.453 no point to criticize it because they can't change it. 1:02:02.853 --> 1:02:05.893 But if it's all ideas should be subject to criticism, 1:02:06.253 --> 1:02:09.293 and those include religious ideas or atheist stick ideas as well. 1:02:09.373 --> 1:02:12.853 Anything that's an idea should be open to criticism. But 1:02:12.893 --> 1:02:16.893 any immutable property of a person like me, criticizing your age, 1:02:16.973 --> 1:02:19.933 your eye color, that's not open to criticisms. That shouldn't 1:02:19.933 --> 1:02:22.333 be open to criticism. But I'm not saying that should 1:02:22.333 --> 1:02:23.053 be illegal either. 1:02:23.693 --> 1:02:24.933 Sorry what you like, I don't care. 1:02:25.533 --> 1:02:28.813 Yeah, But but I mean the whole point of of 1:02:29.493 --> 1:02:31.933 you're trying to you're trying to offer some kind of 1:02:32.013 --> 1:02:35.293 corrective mechanism so that we can fix errors in our thinking. 1:02:35.453 --> 1:02:35.613 Right. 1:02:35.653 --> 1:02:38.573 So that's one of the reasons that's Is it about 1:02:38.573 --> 1:02:42.293 cognitive liberty, yes? Is it about hearing different epistemic systems 1:02:42.293 --> 1:02:43.013 and different ideas? 1:02:43.053 --> 1:02:43.213 Yes. 1:02:43.293 --> 1:02:45.213 Andrew Doyle has a great little book about this. 1:02:45.373 --> 1:02:45.813 He's the. 1:02:47.653 --> 1:02:51.213 English PhD from Oxford called Free Speech. It's very easy, 1:02:51.573 --> 1:02:55.213 very simple to read, little book. Yeah, he's Titiana McGrath 1:02:55.613 --> 1:03:00.133 and I think he's working with Rob Schneider. Now in 1:03:00.133 --> 1:03:02.533 in he was on gb News he had free Speech Nation. 1:03:02.613 --> 1:03:06.093 But anyway, he details this in his in his book. 1:03:06.693 --> 1:03:08.573 But that's one of the things that people don't talk 1:03:08.613 --> 1:03:11.813 about that I've talked about on tour here is free 1:03:11.813 --> 1:03:13.853 speech is a means of error correction. I mean, that's 1:03:13.853 --> 1:03:15.333 the other thing. To get back to the Mallory and 1:03:15.453 --> 1:03:18.813 get back to these tribal civilizations. They've just quenched that, 1:03:18.933 --> 1:03:21.573 they've quelled any kind of free speech you see that 1:03:21.573 --> 1:03:24.013 in the Islamic world like you can't. Really, that's why 1:03:24.013 --> 1:03:27.053 you need blasphemy laws. There are no blasphemy laws against 1:03:27.093 --> 1:03:30.693 electricity or gravity. You don't need them, right, you don't. 1:03:30.733 --> 1:03:31.293 You don't need them. 1:03:31.573 --> 1:03:33.933 There are corrective mechanisms there too, but you only need 1:03:33.973 --> 1:03:37.133 them if there is insufficient evidence to warrant belief in 1:03:37.173 --> 1:03:39.573 a conclusion. That's why you need blasphemy laws. 1:03:40.013 --> 1:03:41.533 There's no other reason for it. But there are no 1:03:41.573 --> 1:03:43.813 blasphemy laws against Christianity. 1:03:44.453 --> 1:03:47.693 Yeah, there are no blasphemy laws against electricity either. I 1:03:47.693 --> 1:03:49.653 could go out in the street and scream all day 1:03:49.693 --> 1:03:54.613 long that electricity is a right wing conspiracy, our Martian conspiracy. 1:03:54.853 --> 1:03:56.493 We don't need laws against that. 1:03:56.853 --> 1:03:59.453 So we don't need laws against Christianity. 1:03:59.893 --> 1:04:04.773 Against criticizing anybody should be able to criticize any any 1:04:04.853 --> 1:04:07.413 religion or any thought system they want or atheists and 1:04:07.453 --> 1:04:10.693 atheists fall into that pasca too, and any idea is 1:04:10.693 --> 1:04:11.253 subject to. 1:04:11.173 --> 1:04:15.733 Criticism, all right. I mean I'm not arguing with that 1:04:15.813 --> 1:04:18.053 at all. Yes, I was just I was just intrigued. 1:04:18.093 --> 1:04:23.253 You've got you've got you've got laws against speaking about Islam, yes, 1:04:23.733 --> 1:04:27.853 but no laws against speaking about correct it's a standard. 1:04:27.973 --> 1:04:31.053 So what I'm what I'm asking, what I'm really driving at, 1:04:31.333 --> 1:04:34.333 I suppose is what you said to follow on that 1:04:34.413 --> 1:04:37.853 you you need it because or you have it because 1:04:38.573 --> 1:04:45.773 you have laws against criticizing Islam because. 1:04:48.413 --> 1:04:50.173 Well, the real I'll give you the real reason there 1:04:50.173 --> 1:04:52.373 are lies against criticizing it in the UK is because 1:04:52.373 --> 1:04:55.373 they're afred. People are afraid. That's why I they don't 1:04:55.373 --> 1:04:56.373 criticize it. 1:04:56.573 --> 1:04:58.733 Oh you mean English people. 1:04:58.613 --> 1:05:01.853 Or people people in general. I mean I never criticize 1:05:01.853 --> 1:05:03.973 it because I don't. I'm not particularly keen about having 1:05:03.973 --> 1:05:06.253 my head signed off with the butter knife. Yeah. So, 1:05:06.293 --> 1:05:08.253 I mean I would never go around burning the Quran, 1:05:08.813 --> 1:05:10.093 defecating on it. 1:05:10.533 --> 1:05:17.053 Probably ill advised, but but there's no trouble was putting across. 1:05:17.213 --> 1:05:19.453 Serrano's piss christ Yeah that's right. 1:05:20.093 --> 1:05:20.893 Yeah, well, I. 1:05:20.853 --> 1:05:22.933 Mean that's because Christians aren't going to rise up and 1:05:23.013 --> 1:05:26.053 just start killing people. I mean, it's like the Book 1:05:26.053 --> 1:05:33.053 of Mormon, right when we're fundamentally afraid. That's why many 1:05:33.093 --> 1:05:37.333 atheists have no problem criticizing Christianity but will never criticize Islam. 1:05:37.493 --> 1:05:39.293 Part of its fear, part of it. There are other 1:05:39.333 --> 1:05:40.173 reasons for that as. 1:05:40.053 --> 1:05:40.453 Well, but. 1:05:42.493 --> 1:05:46.253 Yeah, they're also beholden to this kind of sacredness of 1:05:46.293 --> 1:05:49.693 the brown people. Nonsense, there are no sacred people. There 1:05:49.693 --> 1:05:53.413 are no sacred ideas either. They're just ideas and people, 1:05:53.693 --> 1:05:57.733 and no one people and no ethnicity or no race 1:05:58.453 --> 1:06:00.413 has dominion over any ideas. 1:06:01.093 --> 1:06:06.413 So I think to wind this up, almost reluctantly, you've 1:06:06.413 --> 1:06:09.373 been here for two months, living here, loved it in 1:06:09.413 --> 1:06:11.413 the in the middle of Auckland. But you've done plenty 1:06:11.453 --> 1:06:16.293 of travel. You were here in twenty fifteen last Yeah, 1:06:16.373 --> 1:06:20.973 with you, we read a great time, we interviewed, and 1:06:22.453 --> 1:06:24.653 there's another part of that story. Maybe we'll get to 1:06:24.693 --> 1:06:34.493 it in a minute. The point is that we have replaced, 1:06:45.853 --> 1:06:50.613 we have replaced the government that was garbage a little 1:06:50.613 --> 1:06:54.733 every year ago, and we are making progress in the 1:06:54.813 --> 1:07:00.013 right direction. But it's not satisfactory, not if you stake 1:07:00.013 --> 1:07:04.293 it against what's going on now in your country. So 1:07:04.973 --> 1:07:07.213 from your perspective, from what you've seen two months here, 1:07:07.213 --> 1:07:11.293 a long time, what what would you say was the 1:07:11.333 --> 1:07:14.213 advantage to this country and the disadvantage of this country 1:07:14.653 --> 1:07:15.933 compared to America? 1:07:16.053 --> 1:07:21.933 Oh boy, what a question. Holy moly. I mean, there 1:07:21.933 --> 1:07:24.933 are a lot of incredible things about this country, and 1:07:25.013 --> 1:07:27.373 a lot of less than incredible things are few. 1:07:28.053 --> 1:07:29.013 It very much. 1:07:28.893 --> 1:07:32.453 Reminds me of the US and the nineties. It's safe, clean, 1:07:32.493 --> 1:07:34.333 I hope knowing people here think, oh, it's not that 1:07:34.413 --> 1:07:36.573 say it trusts me. It is compared to so to 1:07:36.973 --> 1:07:39.573 blue cities with blue governors. You know, the city where 1:07:39.573 --> 1:07:42.413 I was living was a it was a cesspool of 1:07:42.453 --> 1:07:45.333 degenerates and lunatics and homeless people. It was terribly it's 1:07:45.373 --> 1:07:50.053 truly dangerous and frightening. So it's clean, it's safe. Public 1:07:50.053 --> 1:07:53.013 transportation isn't that great here the whole. I've never heard 1:07:53.013 --> 1:07:56.373 of a major metropolitan area who's literally closed its whole, 1:07:56.653 --> 1:07:59.733 its entire trade station, dia literally train lighted. 1:07:59.773 --> 1:08:01.133 I've literally never even heard. 1:08:00.933 --> 1:08:03.773 Of such a thing. But you know, I had dinner 1:08:04.013 --> 1:08:06.173 the other day with the Minister of Justice. He just 1:08:06.253 --> 1:08:08.453 comes waltz is in, sits at the table, doesn't in 1:08:08.493 --> 1:08:12.333 a security escort, doesn't need like guys surrounding with guns. 1:08:14.373 --> 1:08:16.133 One of the first things you notice here is that 1:08:16.173 --> 1:08:19.053 the air is crisp and clean. I think I think 1:08:19.613 --> 1:08:23.373 somebody mentioned to me they're not used to seeing English 1:08:23.373 --> 1:08:27.453 signage without homeless people. It's interesting, you know, like you 1:08:27.493 --> 1:08:32.093 see a lot of birds and stores here. I still 1:08:32.093 --> 1:08:34.013 can't get used to people driving on the left side 1:08:34.013 --> 1:08:37.573 of the road. It's just like it literally cringe every 1:08:37.573 --> 1:08:38.933 time I'm it. 1:08:38.933 --> 1:08:42.413 Is the one area that I disagree with with you 1:08:43.293 --> 1:08:46.533 so far. Anyway, driving in the road, Well you're talking 1:08:46.533 --> 1:08:49.693 about driving on the right, Yeah, and that's where I belong. 1:08:50.053 --> 1:08:55.413 But yeah, yeah, and it's better I could. I could 1:08:55.453 --> 1:08:58.733 never there's something terrifying to me. You know, I'm fifty eight. 1:08:58.733 --> 1:09:00.573 I'm just driving on one side of the road the 1:09:00.573 --> 1:09:03.173 whole my whole life. But I think that the first 1:09:03.213 --> 1:09:08.613 thing you notice, particularly coming from uh A, Buddhapest where 1:09:08.613 --> 1:09:11.333 I was, that the people in Buddhabet, like so many 1:09:11.373 --> 1:09:14.973 people smoke, which I think is completely insane. It's a 1:09:15.213 --> 1:09:19.933 truly horrific activity and obviously grossly detrimental to one's health. 1:09:20.373 --> 1:09:22.413 But people vape here, which is kind of weird. It's 1:09:22.413 --> 1:09:24.213 like a weird culture. But I'd much rather have them 1:09:24.293 --> 1:09:26.573 vaping than smoking, because when I walk by them vaping, 1:09:26.613 --> 1:09:30.333 it doesn't really bother me, but smoking's like it asphyxiates me. 1:09:31.853 --> 1:09:35.653 The climate's been been really good here. The building codes 1:09:35.693 --> 1:09:37.333 are kind of weird to me. I live in the 1:09:37.373 --> 1:09:39.973 CBD and I've been in some buildings like I don't 1:09:39.973 --> 1:09:43.053 know they I just can't. The whole idea that you know, 1:09:43.133 --> 1:09:45.733 you would push a button to exit a place is 1:09:45.773 --> 1:09:47.533 weird to me, Like, why don't you just open the door? 1:09:47.533 --> 1:09:48.973 What do you need to put a push a button for? 1:09:49.213 --> 1:09:51.693 It just seems like an extra layer of thing. 1:09:52.573 --> 1:09:53.293 Uh, you know. 1:09:53.373 --> 1:09:55.653 And the other thing is, you know the place where 1:09:55.653 --> 1:09:58.453 I'm staying in the CBD has glass doors, Like you 1:09:58.493 --> 1:10:00.013 could never do that in a lot of people just 1:10:00.053 --> 1:10:01.293 destroy the doors. 1:10:01.533 --> 1:10:03.773 Just completely about them to get out. 1:10:03.893 --> 1:10:04.453 Yeah, well I don't. 1:10:04.533 --> 1:10:06.333 Yeah, Well the reason for that is to keep the 1:10:06.413 --> 1:10:09.013 people that you don't want in your in your bi out. 1:10:09.373 --> 1:10:11.333 But they're walking in anyway every time you open the door. 1:10:11.733 --> 1:10:13.733 It's not it's not keeping out. You're not keeping on 1:10:13.773 --> 1:10:18.013 anybody issue. How you're keeping them, How you're keeping them on? 1:10:18.253 --> 1:10:20.813 Well, because every time you open the door they walk in. 1:10:21.293 --> 1:10:24.293 Well, we just have a sensor that opens the door 1:10:24.293 --> 1:10:25.773 when you're there. What's the difference. 1:10:26.773 --> 1:10:29.413 Oh, I see what you mean. You're not you're not 1:10:29.453 --> 1:10:31.773 you're not you're not concerned about having the door locked. 1:10:33.733 --> 1:10:35.293 No, I don't think you could do that in us 1:10:35.293 --> 1:10:38.373 because people just destroy it. But I don't, I don't, No, 1:10:38.493 --> 1:10:41.453 it's just weird to me. The public restaurants here buying 1:10:41.533 --> 1:10:44.653 large are good. The buses are buying large clean, they 1:10:44.653 --> 1:10:47.733 have you know, I think they have had felt seats 1:10:48.053 --> 1:10:51.253 if I remember correctly. No, I think so. I think 1:10:51.293 --> 1:10:52.893 the bus I rode on I took. I think I 1:10:52.893 --> 1:10:54.613 can look later. I think I took a picture of it. 1:10:54.893 --> 1:10:57.253 There's not a lot of graffiti. People are very nice here. 1:10:57.453 --> 1:11:02.253 It's very uh, it's a very but you know, Kiwis 1:11:02.293 --> 1:11:06.173 are very I don't know, they're they're they're really like 1:11:07.333 --> 1:11:10.533 they have a kind of innocence about them, you know, 1:11:10.733 --> 1:11:14.493 they have a kind of like it's hard to explain. 1:11:14.533 --> 1:11:19.133 They have a kind of anti cynicism about them in 1:11:19.173 --> 1:11:22.773 a certain way in relation to other people, in relation 1:11:22.853 --> 1:11:26.693 to interpersonal interactions, I find them very easy to deal with. 1:11:27.093 --> 1:11:29.573 Maybe that's just because they treat me. They're extra nice 1:11:29.573 --> 1:11:30.493 to me because I'm a foreigner. 1:11:30.493 --> 1:11:35.973 I don't know. Could be, yeah, but most most people say, 1:11:36.053 --> 1:11:38.733 most people say when they come here that the locals, 1:11:39.053 --> 1:11:42.093 the natives, if I may, are very friendly. Yeah. 1:11:42.253 --> 1:11:44.013 But the number one thing that I like about this, 1:11:44.093 --> 1:11:46.213 beside the vistas and the view and the people are great. 1:11:46.573 --> 1:11:50.533 It's truly it's the air. The air is incredible here. 1:11:50.533 --> 1:11:52.373 Like I sleep with a seapap. I was telling you this. 1:11:52.493 --> 1:11:55.493 I sleep with a seapap and there's an air filter 1:11:55.613 --> 1:11:58.133 on that and I've only changed it once in the 1:11:58.173 --> 1:11:59.973 two months i've been here. Usually I have to change 1:11:59.973 --> 1:12:03.613 it every three weeks. It's because it gets black. I mean, 1:12:03.653 --> 1:12:05.253 even when I change it was just barely. 1:12:05.853 --> 1:12:07.293 But I don't know. I really like it here. 1:12:07.693 --> 1:12:09.733 There's not a lot of hustle and bustle, which I 1:12:09.733 --> 1:12:11.413 don't think I could live here, but I could certainly 1:12:11.453 --> 1:12:12.053 retire here. 1:12:12.093 --> 1:12:13.893 Well, from what you've seen, if you were going to 1:12:13.973 --> 1:12:15.373 live here, where would you choose? 1:12:15.893 --> 1:12:19.173 Christ Church is pretty nice. I don't think I could 1:12:19.173 --> 1:12:21.693 live in Wellington. Know that that's nice. It's super windy there. 1:12:21.733 --> 1:12:23.253 I almost got lifted off my feet. 1:12:25.013 --> 1:12:26.533 I know. Auckland might be kind of nice. 1:12:26.533 --> 1:12:28.653 There's a lot happening, a lot of restaurants is good. 1:12:28.693 --> 1:12:30.973 Jiu Jitsu in Auckland is a great jiu jitsu. 1:12:31.253 --> 1:12:31.653 I don't know. 1:12:31.733 --> 1:12:34.213 I don't know where I choose. I could see myself. 1:12:34.253 --> 1:12:38.053 I guess retiring here. I guess you didn't ask me this, 1:12:38.093 --> 1:12:40.653 but I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you my unsolicited advice, 1:12:44.653 --> 1:12:49.213 my unsolicited, sincere advice to you is And I realized 1:12:49.213 --> 1:12:50.813 I'm gonna say this, and people are gonna roll their 1:12:50.853 --> 1:12:53.253 eyes and they're going to sink this is never gonna happen. 1:12:53.413 --> 1:12:54.693 This is like some crazy. 1:12:54.453 --> 1:12:59.653 American do not let large numbers of unskilled Muslim men 1:12:59.693 --> 1:13:06.413 into your country. That's it, that's my that's my unsolicited 1:13:06.453 --> 1:13:07.013 advice to you. 1:13:09.733 --> 1:13:10.373 Join the club. 1:13:10.853 --> 1:13:13.653 Yeah, that's another thing no one's talking about, and no 1:13:13.693 --> 1:13:14.733 one's being honest about. 1:13:15.413 --> 1:13:22.173 Quite true, It's it's now, I'm not gonna you're the guest. 1:13:22.613 --> 1:13:26.533 I'm just I'm just here the guide here. I've got 1:13:26.573 --> 1:13:29.173 plenty of opportunities to say what I really think. But 1:13:29.213 --> 1:13:31.573 I but you, you're correct, And you've only got to 1:13:31.613 --> 1:13:33.733 look at Britain at the moment to see exact people. 1:13:34.093 --> 1:13:39.693 All of Western Europe we're talking about. 1:13:38.693 --> 1:13:41.413 And and and the all three of those things together 1:13:41.533 --> 1:13:45.213 unskilled Muslim men and it's not seek. Seeks have extremely 1:13:45.253 --> 1:13:50.293 low rates of crime, poverty, homelessness, et cetera. If anything, 1:13:50.333 --> 1:13:52.333 they are a lubricant to the society. 1:13:52.973 --> 1:13:57.813 My last question is you were a professor once. Yes, 1:13:59.413 --> 1:14:01.493 we know the story of you becoming a non professor. 1:14:02.053 --> 1:14:08.213 Question is you are now a philosopher, public philosopher? Any 1:14:08.413 --> 1:14:09.693 become a public philosopher. 1:14:09.973 --> 1:14:13.173 That's a really good question. I still haven't figured that out. 1:14:13.613 --> 1:14:15.693 You how do you how do you. 1:14:15.613 --> 1:14:16.773 Become a philosopher? 1:14:17.013 --> 1:14:17.773 I guess you have to. 1:14:17.853 --> 1:14:20.653 Like I go around the world and my YouTube channel 1:14:20.893 --> 1:14:24.013 Peter Bogosian bog h O s SI N, and I 1:14:24.133 --> 1:14:27.293 just interview people. I do this thing called Spectrum Street Epistemology, 1:14:27.333 --> 1:14:29.733 and we ask people how confident they are in their 1:14:29.733 --> 1:14:32.213 beliefs and if they're calibrated to the evidence. And I 1:14:32.293 --> 1:14:34.813 go to do it in multiple languages all across the world. 1:14:36.053 --> 1:14:38.413 It's very difficult to move in the public space unless 1:14:38.413 --> 1:14:41.693 you're on Twitter, you know currently X It's very you 1:14:41.733 --> 1:14:43.773 can be done, but it's hard, especially the angles here, 1:14:43.813 --> 1:14:48.693 it's hard to do. So you have social media metrics, 1:14:48.813 --> 1:14:51.053 you know. I have a university affiliation now, which helps 1:14:51.093 --> 1:14:53.413 a lot. I'm affiliated with the University of Austin. I'm 1:14:53.453 --> 1:14:56.133 a Funding Faculty advisor, so that I was a funding 1:14:56.133 --> 1:14:59.573 faculty fellow, So that helps a lot to have university affiliation. 1:15:01.133 --> 1:15:02.453 Yeah, and I tour around. 1:15:02.173 --> 1:15:04.733 I do debates, I give lectures, I give talks, I 1:15:04.773 --> 1:15:06.853 talk to I've talked to literally. I mean, you can 1:15:06.893 --> 1:15:09.653 watch a few thousands and thousands people about people I 1:15:09.693 --> 1:15:10.173 don't know. 1:15:10.213 --> 1:15:11.813 There are no actors on anything I do. 1:15:11.853 --> 1:15:14.053 They're just random people off the streets or people who 1:15:14.053 --> 1:15:15.733 come to my events, and I'll talk to them about anything. 1:15:15.773 --> 1:15:19.373 I'll talk to anybody about anything, and it's all I 1:15:19.413 --> 1:15:20.173 still hold that. 1:15:20.253 --> 1:15:22.773 You know, in the Gorgias, Plato says it is better 1:15:22.813 --> 1:15:25.733 to be refuted than it is to refute. That's the 1:15:25.773 --> 1:15:28.253 thing that the people at the New Zealand Herald have 1:15:28.293 --> 1:15:30.173 to get into their heads. It's not a good thing 1:15:30.213 --> 1:15:32.453 to be an ideologue. It's a good thing to change 1:15:32.453 --> 1:15:34.453 her mind in the base of evidence. It's a good 1:15:34.493 --> 1:15:36.493 thing to be honest about what you believe. It's a 1:15:36.493 --> 1:15:39.133 good thing to not deceive people about what you believe. 1:15:39.413 --> 1:15:41.853 It's a good thing to not deceive people about what 1:15:41.893 --> 1:15:44.333 you think is in the best interest of society. When 1:15:44.373 --> 1:15:48.253 you're just drank your own kool aid, I mean, this 1:15:48.373 --> 1:15:51.573 is a disgrace and people aren't calling them out. So 1:15:51.693 --> 1:15:53.493 you be a public philosopher. The other thing is you 1:15:53.533 --> 1:15:55.373 just be honest with people. I'm beholden to no one. 1:15:55.413 --> 1:15:57.653 I can say I've said in this interview exactly what 1:15:57.733 --> 1:15:59.973 I think. I'm literally beholden to no one. 1:16:00.653 --> 1:16:03.973 So how do you How do you make a living? Oh? 1:16:04.013 --> 1:16:05.453 I make a living in a bunch of ways. 1:16:06.093 --> 1:16:09.413 I have a nonprofit foundation that people donate too, and 1:16:09.453 --> 1:16:11.413 that enables me to do things for free, like to 1:16:11.413 --> 1:16:15.213 come to New Zealand. They paid for my airfare. But 1:16:15.253 --> 1:16:17.133 I don't take any money, you know, I give talks here, 1:16:17.373 --> 1:16:20.733 the economy, the economy. No, I just do things. I 1:16:20.893 --> 1:16:22.493 just do a lot of stuff for free, a lot 1:16:22.533 --> 1:16:22.733 of it. 1:16:22.853 --> 1:16:25.333 No, No, No economy on the plane. 1:16:25.373 --> 1:16:28.293 Oh, always economy always. It's you know, I'm sixteen hours 1:16:28.373 --> 1:16:30.173 or twenty one hours in this little flight. I'm like 1:16:30.173 --> 1:16:32.573 a chicken and a coop. Yeah, it's not comfortable, and 1:16:32.613 --> 1:16:34.453 I'm fifty eight, so it's not exactly great. 1:16:34.493 --> 1:16:41.533 But so yeah, so here's here's another question. Then you're 1:16:41.573 --> 1:16:44.333 fifty eight, you're sitting in this little coop seat and 1:16:44.413 --> 1:16:47.373 you're crowded around, and the tortots are dirty and yeah, everything. 1:16:47.813 --> 1:16:51.333 So one of my favorite questions is to promote age 1:16:51.333 --> 1:16:54.333 a little bit and say, well, ask so where do 1:16:54.333 --> 1:16:55.733 you want to be sitting when you're seventy eight? 1:16:57.933 --> 1:17:00.373 Funny, I just did a show with a comedy seller 1:17:00.413 --> 1:17:05.413 on this, my friend Noam. I think that there are 1:17:06.093 --> 1:17:08.173 to be in good health, and I think that there 1:17:08.173 --> 1:17:11.573 are ways to do that are that enable one to 1:17:11.653 --> 1:17:14.213 level up as a human. I can talk about those, 1:17:14.253 --> 1:17:15.813 but no one will do it, so there's no point. 1:17:15.853 --> 1:17:18.293 That's what I do. I mean extremely good shape. I 1:17:18.333 --> 1:17:21.813 just wrestled today for an hour with guys uh half 1:17:21.933 --> 1:17:25.533 literally half my age, So I think I want to 1:17:25.533 --> 1:17:27.413 be in good shape. I want to keep doing what 1:17:27.533 --> 1:17:31.413 I'm doing. I want to do work that matters. I 1:17:31.453 --> 1:17:33.973 want to have people who love me and care about me, 1:17:34.013 --> 1:17:36.453 and people I love and care about. I want to 1:17:36.493 --> 1:17:39.573 be somewhat financially secure so I don't have to worry 1:17:39.573 --> 1:17:44.813 about money. I think ultimately I want to make sure 1:17:44.853 --> 1:17:47.133 I leave the world a better place than when I entered, 1:17:48.093 --> 1:17:51.173 and I think I'm I'm doing the best that I 1:17:51.173 --> 1:17:53.253 can to do that. Now, you know, to bring my 1:17:53.453 --> 1:17:54.973 Remember once when I was a kid, I saw this 1:17:55.333 --> 1:18:00.053 movie of the Some some people were like butchering apes 1:18:00.333 --> 1:18:02.493 and he's a ghastly movie. I started with my dad 1:18:02.813 --> 1:18:04.453 and I said to my dad, man, we've got to 1:18:04.493 --> 1:18:06.893 do something about the apes. My dad turned to me 1:18:07.213 --> 1:18:09.053 in just no entertain and said, what the fuck are 1:18:09.053 --> 1:18:11.133 you going to do about the apes? You can't do 1:18:11.173 --> 1:18:13.213 a damn thing about the apes. Why don't you do 1:18:13.253 --> 1:18:16.293 something you can do something about? And I'm like, Wow, why. 1:18:16.173 --> 1:18:16.653 Don't I do so? 1:18:16.733 --> 1:18:18.853 Then then I think, well, what can I do something about? 1:18:18.853 --> 1:18:19.493 Well? I can. 1:18:20.013 --> 1:18:21.933 You know, I love working with prison inmates. I love 1:18:21.973 --> 1:18:25.373 working with gang members. So I'm working. I might come 1:18:25.413 --> 1:18:27.213 back to New Zealand, hopefully I'll work in the prisons. 1:18:27.253 --> 1:18:30.813 I love working with it's with schools with disadvantaged kids. 1:18:30.853 --> 1:18:31.093 You know. 1:18:31.773 --> 1:18:34.253 I'm doing this thing at Vertex Academy and we'll I'll 1:18:34.253 --> 1:18:36.893 be you know, helping It's an all black school system 1:18:36.973 --> 1:18:40.373 in New York. Taking what I'm good at, teaching people 1:18:40.373 --> 1:18:44.653 how to engage ideas and be honest with themselves and 1:18:44.773 --> 1:18:45.973 honest about their beliefs. 1:18:46.013 --> 1:18:46.933 So, yeah, where I. 1:18:46.853 --> 1:18:48.133 Want to be at seven eight is I want to 1:18:48.213 --> 1:18:49.373 keep doing work that matters. 1:18:49.493 --> 1:18:52.253 Okay, Now, now let's get to the question that I asked, 1:18:53.533 --> 1:18:55.653 Where do you want to sit on the plane when 1:18:55.693 --> 1:18:56.893 you're seventy eight? Oh? 1:18:56.893 --> 1:18:59.333 I probably won't be flying at seventy eight very much. 1:18:59.413 --> 1:19:02.773 But I mean, I just it's a gratuitous expense to 1:19:02.813 --> 1:19:04.853 spend in first class. I just wouldn't do that, even 1:19:04.893 --> 1:19:06.413 if I had the money. I don't have the money, 1:19:06.413 --> 1:19:07.533 but I wouldn't do that even if. 1:19:07.493 --> 1:19:11.053 I did a class below that. Yeah, probably that class. 1:19:11.253 --> 1:19:13.853 That's probably a good one. It's probably a good one. 1:19:13.973 --> 1:19:17.653 That's probably where finally I got the answer I wanted. Yeah, 1:19:17.813 --> 1:19:21.613 when you were here last Yeah, there was a standout 1:19:21.933 --> 1:19:25.853 of that trip. Yeah, I found out later, what was it? 1:19:25.933 --> 1:19:28.013 The best bottle of wine I ever had? That one? 1:19:28.133 --> 1:19:28.693 That's the one. 1:19:28.813 --> 1:19:30.853 Yeah, it was the best bottle one I have ever had. 1:19:30.973 --> 1:19:31.373 You know that? 1:19:31.573 --> 1:19:34.213 People told me, Oh late in Smith. You know, he's 1:19:34.693 --> 1:19:36.453 New Zealand's Russel and Bob. 1:19:36.493 --> 1:19:37.733 You got to be careful of him. 1:19:37.773 --> 1:19:40.893 You got to be people telling like truly terrible things 1:19:40.893 --> 1:19:41.253 about you. 1:19:41.493 --> 1:19:42.373 And I really loved you. 1:19:42.413 --> 1:19:43.653 I got there and I had a great time. I 1:19:43.653 --> 1:19:45.533 thought you were really great into lawk with her and 1:19:45.853 --> 1:19:48.173 I had really like what are these people talking about? 1:19:48.293 --> 1:19:50.493 I have literally no idea what they're talking about. 1:19:50.893 --> 1:19:52.773 And then you gave me I think you. 1:19:52.773 --> 1:19:55.533 Kept inviting me back for segments, right and then you 1:19:55.573 --> 1:19:57.533 gave me a bottle of wine. I thought it was 1:19:57.533 --> 1:19:59.173 a nice gesture. I didn't think too much about it, 1:19:59.213 --> 1:20:00.893 and I drank it. I was completely blown wise. It's 1:20:00.933 --> 1:20:02.573 literally the best bottle of wine I ever have. I've 1:20:02.573 --> 1:20:05.813 probably told literally a thousand people about that bottle wine. 1:20:06.013 --> 1:20:08.013 That's what you That's what your pa told me when 1:20:08.013 --> 1:20:10.013 she it's true to be six months ago and said 1:20:10.013 --> 1:20:12.053 he's coming down. Do you want to? You know? And 1:20:12.573 --> 1:20:16.013 here we are, so I have for you another bottle 1:20:16.053 --> 1:20:19.333 of wine. I'm not sure it's going to measure up 1:20:19.373 --> 1:20:21.693 to the one that you had last time because because 1:20:21.693 --> 1:20:24.733 of circumstances, but I might even give you two just 1:20:24.733 --> 1:20:26.893 to make up for it. It's very kind of, very 1:20:26.933 --> 1:20:27.213 kind of you. 1:20:27.333 --> 1:20:30.973 I find you to be an honest person, and I 1:20:31.013 --> 1:20:33.373 appreciate you give me the time to think, and I 1:20:33.413 --> 1:20:36.413 appreciate the opportunity to have gotten to a little know 1:20:36.493 --> 1:20:38.773 you a little bit more with my son and having 1:20:38.773 --> 1:20:40.493 dinner with us. And I'm just very grateful. 1:20:40.533 --> 1:20:42.213 I'm glad I met your son. He's a good boy. 1:20:42.373 --> 1:20:43.053 Thank you. 1:20:43.293 --> 1:20:44.013 Appreciate that. 1:20:45.373 --> 1:20:47.373 Peter Bagotia, where do we find you? 1:20:47.453 --> 1:20:51.293 As the saying goes, I'm on XT at Peter Bagosian 1:20:51.373 --> 1:20:53.213 b O G H O S S I N. I'm 1:20:53.253 --> 1:20:56.893 on YouTube, Instagram, on pretty much every every platform. I 1:20:56.893 --> 1:20:59.853 have a podcast like everybody, and I do these street 1:20:59.853 --> 1:21:01.693 events where I go around I talk to random people 1:21:01.733 --> 1:21:04.213 I don't know, so fun stuff. 1:21:04.213 --> 1:21:05.773 Man, you are now free to go. 1:21:06.213 --> 1:21:06.573 Thank you. 1:21:06.653 --> 1:21:08.733 I'll be tired. I'll be tired to this for the 1:21:08.733 --> 1:21:11.813 next two hours editing. Okay, well cool, well, thank you. 1:21:12.013 --> 1:21:15.613 Maybe maybe maybe before that, we'll shear something on the 1:21:15.613 --> 1:21:27.173 way out. Liverrix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to 1:21:27.213 --> 1:21:31.413 the highest quality. Leverix relieves hay fever and skin allergies 1:21:31.733 --> 1:21:35.813 or itchy skin. It's a dual action antihistamine and has 1:21:35.893 --> 1:21:41.493 a unique nasal decongestent action. It's fast acting for fast relief, 1:21:41.933 --> 1:21:44.693 and it works in under an hour and lasts for 1:21:44.733 --> 1:21:48.173 over twenty four hours. Leverrix is a tiny tablet that 1:21:48.293 --> 1:21:52.333 unblocks the nose, deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. 1:21:52.613 --> 1:21:56.893 Lebrix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quantity. 1:21:57.373 --> 1:22:00.533 So next time you're in need of an effective antihistamine, 1:22:00.933 --> 1:22:06.013 call into the pharmacy and ask for Leverrix lv Rix 1:22:06.453 --> 1:22:09.573 Leverrix and always read the lake will take us directed 1:22:09.813 --> 1:22:13.653 and if symptoms persist, see your health professional farmer broker 1:22:13.693 --> 1:22:27.973 Auckland Layton Smith. All right, missus producer in for the 1:22:28.013 --> 1:22:30.533 mail room at number two hundred and seventy one. How 1:22:30.533 --> 1:22:32.773 are you doing good? How are you? I thought you 1:22:32.773 --> 1:22:33.413 were too hot. 1:22:33.813 --> 1:22:36.613 It's a pretty hot day. But rather have this than 1:22:36.653 --> 1:22:38.093 the pouring rain and freezing cold. 1:22:38.213 --> 1:22:38.613 Thank you? 1:22:38.893 --> 1:22:42.373 Okay, now, good morning, mister Smith. While I enjoyed the 1:22:42.413 --> 1:22:45.453 exchange with mister Jones, there was an issue that I 1:22:45.453 --> 1:22:50.093 believe encapsulates the actions of the Mary Elite and Mary Party, 1:22:50.933 --> 1:22:55.493 a concept extensively explored by historian Christopher Lash in his 1:22:55.613 --> 1:23:00.053 nineteen seventy nine work The Culture of Narcissism American Life 1:23:00.333 --> 1:23:04.333 in an age of diminishing expectations. Let's strung around a 1:23:04.333 --> 1:23:07.493 bit lately, hadn't anyway, goes on, We've witnessed the self 1:23:07.533 --> 1:23:12.573 absorbed Mary elite promoting Maori interests to the clear detriment 1:23:12.613 --> 1:23:15.053 of the rest of the country. Their actions aligned with 1:23:15.133 --> 1:23:19.373 the principles of cultural narcissism, where a group's self centeredness 1:23:19.773 --> 1:23:24.173 leads to prioritizing their interests above national well being. This 1:23:24.253 --> 1:23:29.253 approach fosters division and weakens national unity, which ironically seems 1:23:29.253 --> 1:23:32.493 to be their objective all the while they claim victim 1:23:32.573 --> 1:23:38.333 status from those oppressive colonizers. Now, while advocating for cultural 1:23:38.373 --> 1:23:42.253 identity is important, it should never come at the expense 1:23:42.293 --> 1:23:47.133 of marginalizing others. A balanced approach that respects and integrates 1:23:47.173 --> 1:23:52.933 the various cultural perspectives is essential for fostering a cohesive 1:23:53.013 --> 1:23:57.493 and inclusive society. However, the Marrie elites have shown no 1:23:57.653 --> 1:24:01.493 interest in that superb piece of thought and writing. Thank 1:24:01.573 --> 1:24:05.773 you from someone in Brisbane. 1:24:06.413 --> 1:24:08.973 Leyton Wayne says, what a start the new year of 1:24:09.013 --> 1:24:12.253 your podcast. Since the Coalition was formed, I've found Shane 1:24:12.373 --> 1:24:15.493 very interesting. When he is interviewed, he gives credit where 1:24:15.533 --> 1:24:18.773 credit is due to his coalition partners, which is unusual 1:24:18.773 --> 1:24:22.693 in New Zealand politics. Your podcast drew him out further 1:24:22.813 --> 1:24:25.453 on several issues. And most people I know just want 1:24:25.453 --> 1:24:28.653 to have a constructive debate on the treaty, but all 1:24:28.733 --> 1:24:32.173 legacy media want to do is cover protest, which just 1:24:32.293 --> 1:24:35.933 ostracizes them as the media. Soawce even more, I put 1:24:35.973 --> 1:24:38.693 TV one News on the other day for the first 1:24:38.693 --> 1:24:41.173 time in weeks and after the first two items turned 1:24:41.173 --> 1:24:45.093 it off. Can't anyone just report the news objectively anymore 1:24:45.133 --> 1:24:47.693 and let the receiver decide their views are at all, 1:24:48.093 --> 1:24:51.613 rather than being told what to think. I was impressed 1:24:51.613 --> 1:24:54.573 with many of the ways Shane put things such as 1:24:55.093 --> 1:25:00.933 Trump's inauguration speech unmanacling and unfettering people from being cocooned 1:25:01.013 --> 1:25:04.533 as unjust for all the wrongs of history to party 1:25:04.613 --> 1:25:08.013 Mauri's foul conception of where Mary sits is a crutch 1:25:08.053 --> 1:25:11.573 which stops people from taking responsibility. They use it as 1:25:11.573 --> 1:25:15.693 a recruitment tool, waste land of TikTok and other such 1:25:15.733 --> 1:25:20.053 intellectual deserts. He asks, what is the essence of being 1:25:20.093 --> 1:25:23.133 a New Zealander? We must rail against the conceptions of 1:25:23.253 --> 1:25:27.413 history's worst actions forming everything we are now and deliberate 1:25:28.013 --> 1:25:33.053 and deliberate on Wow what statements? And the echo chamber 1:25:33.053 --> 1:25:38.293 of social media represents microaggression and amplify as the environment 1:25:38.413 --> 1:25:42.773 we have by seeing small slites amplified, which fuels grievance, 1:25:42.893 --> 1:25:47.133 culture and legacy media celebrates it. There was a lot more, so, 1:25:47.213 --> 1:25:49.213 thank you so much, and I do trust we hear 1:25:49.253 --> 1:25:52.493 from Shane further in the future. I've already sent your 1:25:52.493 --> 1:25:55.453 podcast link onto two sets of friends who I am 1:25:55.533 --> 1:25:57.333 sure will appreciate it a lot. 1:25:57.733 --> 1:25:58.733 And that's from Wayne. 1:25:59.293 --> 1:26:02.253 Wayne, that's very much appreciated. Thank you, and just see 1:26:02.253 --> 1:26:05.733 if you can double up on your two Yeah, think 1:26:05.773 --> 1:26:10.093 double up every time. It's varied mail room this week, 1:26:10.413 --> 1:26:13.453 and I'm pleased about it, Laton. As an ex member 1:26:13.453 --> 1:26:16.613 of the RNZ Navy, it's been a very difficult time 1:26:16.693 --> 1:26:19.613 to watch a proud navy turn itself into a woke 1:26:19.853 --> 1:26:24.213 cult outfit with very little integrity. The hm n z 1:26:24.533 --> 1:26:27.973 S munawood Nui was sunk on a reef in Samoa 1:26:28.573 --> 1:26:33.173 by a DEI appointed commanding officer who had never commanded 1:26:33.213 --> 1:26:36.573 the ship before, but came from the Royal Navy. She 1:26:36.693 --> 1:26:39.253 and her wife did a motor home tour of New 1:26:39.333 --> 1:26:42.173 Zealand a few years back. She loved New Zealand so 1:26:42.373 --> 1:26:45.653 much that she did in exchange to the New Zealand Navy. 1:26:46.253 --> 1:26:48.613 They gave her command of a ship that had a 1:26:48.693 --> 1:26:52.733 very complicated drive system that no other naval ship has, 1:26:53.173 --> 1:26:55.733 hence its sunk on a reef. There have been two 1:26:55.813 --> 1:26:59.653 other occasions where female DEI appointed officers have been relieved 1:26:59.653 --> 1:27:03.493 of command. One crashed her ship on the jetty in Auckland, 1:27:03.533 --> 1:27:07.493 causing hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage. The second 1:27:07.613 --> 1:27:10.533 for being a bully of the crew below her and 1:27:10.613 --> 1:27:13.413 her use of standover methods that the crew found very 1:27:13.453 --> 1:27:17.053 difficult to deal with. So the complaints came flying from 1:27:17.053 --> 1:27:22.253 all levels that of hence budget is point nine of 1:27:22.333 --> 1:27:26.413 one percent zero point nine of one percent of GDP 1:27:27.573 --> 1:27:30.333 and the Navy is losing a seventeen percent of personnel 1:27:30.373 --> 1:27:33.453 every year since the COVID lockdown. I had two young 1:27:33.493 --> 1:27:36.573 neighbors that left the Navy after five years and are 1:27:36.573 --> 1:27:39.693 now in the Australian Navy twice the pay and far 1:27:39.773 --> 1:27:43.533 better conditions. No DEI and no marie culture and married 1:27:43.573 --> 1:27:46.773 bullies that's so rife in the New Zealand defense forces. 1:27:47.133 --> 1:27:50.813 No white intelligent guys want to stay. When people complain that, 1:27:50.973 --> 1:27:53.813 they get told to get on with things as the 1:27:53.813 --> 1:27:56.133 married culture is part of the New Zealand way of life, 1:27:56.533 --> 1:28:00.173 so these highly intelligent people leave. The Navy has forty 1:28:00.213 --> 1:28:03.813 percent women and forty percent marry that's the DEI quota, 1:28:04.453 --> 1:28:07.333 so it's no longer the defence force. I knew she 1:28:07.533 --> 1:28:10.773 is from Trevor I'm not sure about the I can't 1:28:10.813 --> 1:28:15.813 confirm those forty percent figures, but Driva sounds like he 1:28:15.893 --> 1:28:16.893 might have a good idea. 1:28:17.453 --> 1:28:20.653 Lad Allister says Lad and I know many people say this, 1:28:20.733 --> 1:28:24.533 but your podcasts are such a blessing. I just listened 1:28:24.573 --> 1:28:27.373 to podcasts two seventy and must say I like to 1:28:27.493 --> 1:28:30.253 interview with Shane Jones. Now there's a man that has 1:28:30.293 --> 1:28:33.573 common sense, which is in such short supply with most politicians. 1:28:34.453 --> 1:28:38.013 On that note, Minister Watts could do with a large 1:28:38.053 --> 1:28:40.893 dose of common sense, as well as quite a few 1:28:40.893 --> 1:28:43.693 of the national ranks, and in my view, their leader, 1:28:44.093 --> 1:28:46.893 who has been an utter disappointment as the leader of 1:28:46.893 --> 1:28:47.693 this great nation. 1:28:48.733 --> 1:28:52.053 I wouldn't get carried away about the great nation at 1:28:52.053 --> 1:28:54.773 the moment. It's small to be a great nation. 1:28:54.893 --> 1:28:58.573 I think I'm involved in the grocery industry, says Alistair. 1:28:58.693 --> 1:29:01.533 And something has to be done on shoplifting, which is 1:29:01.773 --> 1:29:05.133 just an epidemic at the moment. Some stores are having 1:29:05.213 --> 1:29:07.533 theft multiple times a day, and at the end of it, 1:29:07.613 --> 1:29:10.653 we the honest shopper pays for it all. I remember 1:29:10.693 --> 1:29:12.893 a few years ago the number was a million dollars 1:29:12.933 --> 1:29:15.493 a day lost. I hate to think what it is 1:29:15.533 --> 1:29:18.013 now with all the weakness on crime of our government. 1:29:18.693 --> 1:29:22.653 What really worries me labor Greens that will get into 1:29:22.733 --> 1:29:25.693 power the next election. Then we will see our nation 1:29:25.853 --> 1:29:29.933 disintegrate with more debt. I voted for New Zealand first 1:29:29.973 --> 1:29:32.613 and agree with most of their policies, apart from Winston 1:29:32.693 --> 1:29:35.693 talking about a two state solution which will never happen. 1:29:36.693 --> 1:29:39.213 I do like what President Trump has to stay on 1:29:39.293 --> 1:29:41.773 that matter, and I'm so happy he won the election. 1:29:42.253 --> 1:29:44.413 People who don't like him, in my opinion, don't know 1:29:44.493 --> 1:29:46.733 that man or what he has done for people over 1:29:46.773 --> 1:29:50.253 the years. I've just ordered The Builders Stone by Melanie 1:29:50.293 --> 1:29:54.213 Phillips herd her on Outsiders Today. Very good, he says. 1:29:54.533 --> 1:29:56.613 He says, keep up the good work and not long 1:29:56.693 --> 1:29:59.173 to podcast three hundred alistair. 1:29:59.173 --> 1:30:02.053 Apart from my little bit of nitpicking, it was an excellent, 1:30:02.453 --> 1:30:06.493 excellent piece of correspondent and thought. Thank you from Chuck. 1:30:06.813 --> 1:30:08.973 Thought you might be interested in this if you have 1:30:09.133 --> 1:30:14.093 not seen it already. Climate the movie this shows there 1:30:14.133 --> 1:30:18.053 are many climate scientists who do not support climate change hysteria. 1:30:18.373 --> 1:30:21.493 They may have different views as to whether COTWO affects 1:30:21.533 --> 1:30:25.213 the climate at all, or say the science is unsettled, 1:30:25.253 --> 1:30:29.453 like doctor Stephen Coonan, even if COTWO warms the planet 1:30:29.893 --> 1:30:33.613 a little, is that harmful? More people die from extreme 1:30:33.653 --> 1:30:36.773 cold than extreme heat. I note you said the government 1:30:36.813 --> 1:30:40.973 supports Simon Watt's view on climate change. You just interviewed 1:30:40.973 --> 1:30:44.413 Shane Jones. It appears he does buy into this nonsense. 1:30:44.853 --> 1:30:48.413 The same could be said about David Seymour. I would 1:30:48.413 --> 1:30:51.093 bet there are a few National MPs who would not 1:30:51.133 --> 1:30:55.093 support Watts. Remember Maureen Pew, Yeah, but you remember the 1:30:55.133 --> 1:30:57.813 beating she took. I just hope that many more people 1:30:57.893 --> 1:31:01.053 vote for ACT or New Zealand First, so that Luxon 1:31:01.253 --> 1:31:04.253 is not able to dictate climate policy that will cost 1:31:04.293 --> 1:31:09.973 New Zealand billions that we cannot afford. Somebody said, somebody 1:31:10.013 --> 1:31:13.533 said recently, no one's ever heard of Simon Watts. I 1:31:13.573 --> 1:31:14.373 think they need to. 1:31:14.973 --> 1:31:18.213 Layton Judath says, it's wonderful to have you back. Laighton. 1:31:18.933 --> 1:31:22.173 So enjoyed listening to the lovable rogue Shane Jones. The 1:31:22.213 --> 1:31:25.293 country needs more of his common sense and straight thinking. 1:31:25.733 --> 1:31:29.133 I look forward to more of your wonderful interviews with intellectuals. 1:31:29.173 --> 1:31:31.653 We don't have enough of them in this country. I 1:31:31.773 --> 1:31:34.213 have high hopes that twenty twenty five will be the 1:31:34.293 --> 1:31:37.093 dawning of growth and prosperity after what has been an 1:31:37.133 --> 1:31:38.533 austere a few years. 1:31:39.253 --> 1:31:42.173 Cheers, says Judith, and keep up the excellent. 1:31:41.813 --> 1:31:46.093 Work Judith appreciated very much. This week's podcast with Shane 1:31:46.173 --> 1:31:49.133 Jones was so entertaining, if only the government would take 1:31:49.213 --> 1:31:52.693 more notice of him. Below is the email I sent 1:31:52.733 --> 1:31:56.773 to Simon Watts for your interest from Leon. Dear Minister, 1:31:57.093 --> 1:31:59.253 I wish I could afford to purchase enough copies of 1:31:59.333 --> 1:32:03.573 A Clime of Climate actually by Andrew Hollis and two others, 1:32:03.973 --> 1:32:06.613 and send a copy to every MP in New Zealand. 1:32:06.733 --> 1:32:08.813 There are many facts included in this book which the 1:32:08.853 --> 1:32:11.533 general public are not aware of, or not just the 1:32:11.613 --> 1:32:17.013 general public. Leon. Seventy percent of all gas emissions are 1:32:17.053 --> 1:32:20.613 from volcanic activity. If all the ice melted, the sea 1:32:20.693 --> 1:32:24.133 level would rise fifteen millimeters that's two inches. We are 1:32:24.173 --> 1:32:27.613 shown melting ice from the Pacific Ocean side, only not 1:32:27.693 --> 1:32:30.573 the Atlantic side, where the ice is building up. We 1:32:30.653 --> 1:32:34.933 are not told that there is volcanic activity beneath the 1:32:35.133 --> 1:32:42.333 Antarctic shelf. New Zealand produces zero point one percent of 1:32:42.413 --> 1:32:45.653 the world's emissions that our government continues to lead the 1:32:45.693 --> 1:32:48.733 world with emission deduction at the cost of our primary 1:32:48.773 --> 1:32:52.853 industries and much of our table food in the not 1:32:52.933 --> 1:32:55.813 too distant future if we're not careful. All plant life 1:32:55.853 --> 1:32:58.653 is dependent upon the supply of carbon dioxide to remain 1:32:58.733 --> 1:33:02.813 healthy so that they can supply oxygen to humans and 1:33:03.293 --> 1:33:07.013 all air breathing species. Yet we're trying to reduce carbon 1:33:07.053 --> 1:33:11.373 dioxide from the U s atmosphere. Thankfully, President Trump is 1:33:11.773 --> 1:33:15.453 leading the way as he recognizes climate change theory as 1:33:15.493 --> 1:33:19.093 a hoax, and the USA is withdrawing from the Paris Accord, 1:33:19.133 --> 1:33:22.053 actually has already done it. Also, I understand that the 1:33:22.093 --> 1:33:27.093 Australian MP Peter Dutton has already indicated Australia will withdraw 1:33:27.213 --> 1:33:31.013 as well if they win the next election. When will 1:33:31.013 --> 1:33:35.893 your government wake up? Leon, Here's the answer that I'd 1:33:35.933 --> 1:33:38.413 give you. They won't wake up, and the reason is 1:33:38.453 --> 1:33:41.693 because they will not avail themselves of any rational thinking 1:33:42.493 --> 1:33:45.013 because they don't seek it out. They say that's the 1:33:45.053 --> 1:33:48.213 way it is. That's what Luxelon has said too. Anybody 1:33:48.213 --> 1:33:51.293 something along the lines. In fact, I'll include the quote 1:33:51.373 --> 1:33:53.253 in the podcast elsewhere because I haven't got it here. 1:33:53.693 --> 1:33:57.893 I know what I would say to him anymore, Layton, worry. 1:33:57.653 --> 1:34:01.253 Before one more from me, David says, I was reading 1:34:01.293 --> 1:34:04.453 the news this week about the half year economic fiscal update, 1:34:05.093 --> 1:34:08.813 whereby the government kept a four billion dollar ACC for 1:34:08.853 --> 1:34:12.253 the year off the books. I was intrigued by that figure, 1:34:12.293 --> 1:34:15.493 so probed around the ACC website and found the linked 1:34:15.493 --> 1:34:18.813 report for the year ending thirty June twenty twenty four, 1:34:18.893 --> 1:34:22.413 published a month ago. Now, I know nothing about audits, 1:34:22.453 --> 1:34:24.893 but some of those numbers are disturbing. If the idea 1:34:25.013 --> 1:34:27.973 is to keep the entity above water over the coming years. 1:34:28.653 --> 1:34:31.693 It mentions that ACC is liable to lose two billion 1:34:31.733 --> 1:34:35.133 dollars a year over the next few years. It seems 1:34:35.133 --> 1:34:39.653 that so called sensitive claims and David Scott's sexual abuse 1:34:39.773 --> 1:34:42.493 here in brackets, are now and will be in the 1:34:42.533 --> 1:34:46.333 future a major factor in contributing to the deficit. Far 1:34:46.413 --> 1:34:49.173 be it for me to downplay these sensitive claims. But 1:34:49.213 --> 1:34:52.333 I'm flummoxed by the table shown on page forty five. 1:34:52.373 --> 1:34:56.093 And he does send you a copy latent that states 1:34:56.133 --> 1:34:59.333 the average cost of each sensitive case equates to one 1:34:59.413 --> 1:35:03.693 hundred and fourteen million dollars. In view of the governments 1:35:03.733 --> 1:35:05.813 struggling to balance the books. I wondered if there was 1:35:05.853 --> 1:35:09.733 an appetite to scrap ACC and let Vivid Insurance take 1:35:09.813 --> 1:35:12.853 up the slack. After all, New Zealand is the only 1:35:12.893 --> 1:35:14.853 country in the world that has gone down this no 1:35:14.973 --> 1:35:18.813 blame policy. It would appear that ACC has something like 1:35:18.933 --> 1:35:23.653 fifty seven billion dollars in investment assets that the government 1:35:23.693 --> 1:35:26.573 could use to retire debt if the entity was sold 1:35:26.573 --> 1:35:29.893 off to private antipart enterprise. And David goes on to 1:35:30.053 --> 1:35:32.733 continue to make his case. And it's a very good 1:35:32.773 --> 1:35:35.333 and lengthy email, but that's the guts of it. 1:35:35.453 --> 1:35:35.813 Basic. 1:35:35.933 --> 1:35:40.453 That's it right now. This one is this one is 1:35:40.493 --> 1:35:42.493 longer than yours, and I'm just wondering if I might 1:35:42.573 --> 1:35:45.653 leave it till the I will. I leave it to you. 1:35:45.933 --> 1:35:48.573 But it's to do with the gene Technology Bill, but 1:35:48.693 --> 1:35:49.813 covers more ground than that. 1:35:50.933 --> 1:35:54.653 Good that means I can get out of this oven. Well, 1:35:54.693 --> 1:35:55.373 I haven't. 1:35:55.133 --> 1:35:59.053 Actually too hot to carry on, all right, remind me 1:35:59.093 --> 1:36:01.373 of that in three months time. I'll just give you 1:36:01.373 --> 1:36:04.253 a quick one. Deborah says, thank you for interviewing Shane. 1:36:04.253 --> 1:36:06.773 That was really informative. I just wish we could have 1:36:06.853 --> 1:36:10.373 him as Prime Minister so much old fashioned common sense. 1:36:10.453 --> 1:36:16.093 Regards Debbie, and I'll give you this quick one from 1:36:16.133 --> 1:36:18.973 Paul High. Layton, Jeffrey Tucker and Rummish the Kerr have 1:36:19.053 --> 1:36:23.693 been doing superb work at Brownstone Institute. George Friedman has 1:36:23.733 --> 1:36:26.613 pointed at and still is pointing at the big cycles 1:36:26.613 --> 1:36:30.453 that bring this type of upheaval into reality. And he's 1:36:30.493 --> 1:36:34.653 talking about the narrative shift in modern history that George 1:36:34.693 --> 1:36:38.733 has written about. So says Paul. So we listeners to 1:36:38.733 --> 1:36:42.133 the radio and podcasts of Leyton Smith, we're aware of 1:36:42.173 --> 1:36:45.373 the storm. Thanks for all you do. It's priceless and 1:36:45.413 --> 1:36:46.333 that's me, Paul. 1:36:46.373 --> 1:36:50.373 That's very generous. Thank you, and you can go good. 1:36:50.733 --> 1:36:54.133 I don't want your melting I. 1:36:53.013 --> 1:36:55.093 I'm fanning myself with a four paper. 1:36:55.653 --> 1:37:00.533 See you next week, you will, okay. So from Mario, 1:37:01.613 --> 1:37:03.813 the quality that you show in every podcast is very 1:37:03.853 --> 1:37:07.573 much needed and appreciated in this information battle in New 1:37:07.653 --> 1:37:12.253 Zealand and triumph of reason over the current madness. I'm 1:37:12.293 --> 1:37:15.013 writing to you regarding the proposed bill that is now 1:37:15.053 --> 1:37:18.333 in Parliament past the first reading on the seventeenth of 1:37:18.333 --> 1:37:22.333 December twenty four, the Gene Technology Bill and then lists 1:37:22.333 --> 1:37:25.813 of one, two, three, four, hundred conduies a lot, so 1:37:26.013 --> 1:37:29.973 bear with us number one. With this horrendous bill, it 1:37:30.053 --> 1:37:32.373 seems that we have no right to know what we're eating. 1:37:32.453 --> 1:37:36.053 The people behind this bill, in their infinite wisdom, are 1:37:36.173 --> 1:37:41.493 not envisioning any labeling of genetically released products after so 1:37:41.573 --> 1:37:45.773 many years of caution, as advised initially by in two 1:37:45.813 --> 1:37:48.293 thousand and one by the Royal Commission, we are facing 1:37:48.373 --> 1:37:52.933 a potential deregulation that will inevitably change New Zealand forever. 1:37:53.453 --> 1:37:57.493 Since there are no safeguards contrary to the advice of 1:37:57.573 --> 1:38:00.973 the Royal Commission in two thousand and one, the impact 1:38:00.973 --> 1:38:04.173 of this bill can be very devastating for New Zealand agriculture. 1:38:04.613 --> 1:38:09.533 Primarily affected will be organic food industry. All farmers will 1:38:09.573 --> 1:38:13.293 be in danger of losing their ge free status and 1:38:13.453 --> 1:38:17.013 the exporters will be hit by the significant downturn in 1:38:17.093 --> 1:38:20.413 sales to their overseas partners. It just seems that the 1:38:20.453 --> 1:38:25.493 Gene Technology Bill is accommodating the biotech industry and shows 1:38:25.533 --> 1:38:29.173 total disregard for a large number of farmers, organic farmers 1:38:29.813 --> 1:38:33.213 and wider public who would not like to have ge 1:38:33.213 --> 1:38:38.653 crops or ge contaminated crops. Secondly, economic losses. According to 1:38:39.133 --> 1:38:42.933 the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research report, there would 1:38:43.013 --> 1:38:48.293 be ten to twenty billion dollars drop in the export 1:38:48.333 --> 1:38:53.373 demand across the whole agricultural export sector. Number three sovereignty sold, 1:38:54.413 --> 1:38:58.373 Foreign regulators and trade deals decide what is safe for US. 1:38:59.133 --> 1:39:02.933 Number four environmental harm. Once the ge free image is lost, 1:39:02.973 --> 1:39:06.293 it'll be impossible to restore that image since the ge 1:39:06.413 --> 1:39:10.013 contamination is impossible to recall anyway. This is just a 1:39:10.093 --> 1:39:12.693 short and simple introduction to a possible harm that New 1:39:12.773 --> 1:39:16.453 Zealand is facing. I didn't go further than agriculture, but 1:39:16.613 --> 1:39:20.653 other areas adversely impacted would be tourism, no doubt, because 1:39:20.813 --> 1:39:24.813 once New Zealand's clean and green image is tarnished, there 1:39:24.813 --> 1:39:28.613 will be negative consequences in tourism as well. You already 1:39:28.653 --> 1:39:32.893 had Guy Hatchett in your interviews, and I think he 1:39:32.933 --> 1:39:35.253 would be an excellent choice on the subject of the 1:39:35.293 --> 1:39:40.493 gene technology bill. Also, Professor Jack Heinemann from the University 1:39:40.533 --> 1:39:44.053 of Canterbury, in his submission to the Health select Committee 1:39:44.053 --> 1:39:47.573 explains why the proposed bill is not up to scratch, 1:39:47.893 --> 1:39:51.053 and yes, perhaps you could have him on your podcast too. 1:39:51.213 --> 1:39:55.933 Oway en Z's commissioned n z Eier economic report that 1:39:56.093 --> 1:40:00.053 clearly highlights the economic risks to the country and our 1:40:00.093 --> 1:40:03.453 Ministry of Foreign Affairs MPAC agrees that it is rushed, 1:40:03.613 --> 1:40:07.453 poorly thought through and has very real negative trade implications. 1:40:08.333 --> 1:40:10.493 I would like to express, Mario concludes. I would like 1:40:10.533 --> 1:40:15.493 to express my thanks to Linda Grammer from get free 1:40:15.533 --> 1:40:20.413 dot org dot NZ for vital information and links. Now, Mario, 1:40:20.613 --> 1:40:23.173 I didn't know who Jack Heineman was, so I ran 1:40:23.213 --> 1:40:25.893 a check and there's quite a bit of detail. So 1:40:26.013 --> 1:40:28.213 let me let me just touch on this because it 1:40:28.253 --> 1:40:32.733 will be included somewhere somewhere else. I suspect, let's cut 1:40:32.773 --> 1:40:36.213 the crap on gene technology. Society should be asking itself 1:40:36.213 --> 1:40:38.853 why it needs to trade the security of its regulations 1:40:38.853 --> 1:40:43.413 for unsecured promises from the visions of genetic engineers, argues 1:40:43.853 --> 1:40:48.133 molecular biologists to Jack Heineman. The government has proposed to 1:40:48.173 --> 1:40:51.373 reset and to remove some regulations on making and releasing 1:40:51.373 --> 1:40:56.613 genetically modified organisms GMOs. Is it a new conversation based 1:40:56.653 --> 1:41:00.653 on a new risk equation or an ultimatum? Now, initially 1:41:00.733 --> 1:41:02.333 I had another two and a half or was a 1:41:02.333 --> 1:41:04.373 three and a half page. It doesn't matter. It was 1:41:04.813 --> 1:41:07.933 getting very complicated, and it's the sort of thing you 1:41:07.973 --> 1:41:10.333 need to say in print in front of you unless 1:41:10.333 --> 1:41:13.333 you are a medical genius. Of course, see the print 1:41:13.333 --> 1:41:14.813 in front of you, and we able to go back 1:41:14.853 --> 1:41:18.213 on and reread it so that you can grasp it appropriately. 1:41:18.653 --> 1:41:20.973 But I can tell you where you can find it 1:41:21.013 --> 1:41:24.653 if you want to want further. It is from the 1:41:24.693 --> 1:41:28.253 Spinoff was published on August twenty nine last year, August 1:41:28.253 --> 1:41:31.693 twenty nine, twenty twenty four, and it's by Jack Heinemann 1:41:32.333 --> 1:41:36.573 h EI n em A double N and it's entitled 1:41:37.213 --> 1:41:59.173 Let's cut the crap on gene technology. Now. It wasn't 1:41:59.173 --> 1:42:03.133 my intention to include anything major on climate matters in 1:42:03.213 --> 1:42:05.573 two seven to one. But on account of the fact 1:42:05.573 --> 1:42:08.653 that this has just arrived in my inbox as I 1:42:08.693 --> 1:42:11.373 was preparing to send it send it off for production, 1:42:11.813 --> 1:42:16.213 let me let me adopt this for today. The atrocities 1:42:16.253 --> 1:42:19.573 in current government policies are nowhere more evident than in 1:42:19.653 --> 1:42:23.973 the area of energy policy. The overarching policy atrocity is 1:42:24.013 --> 1:42:27.013 to be observed in any and all of the measures 1:42:27.053 --> 1:42:31.653 designed to reduce anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions to net zero, 1:42:32.653 --> 1:42:36.853 a bizarre concept when natural emissions, for instance from volcanoes 1:42:36.893 --> 1:42:41.933 and oceans disgorging absorbed carbon dioxide in a currently warming climate, 1:42:42.453 --> 1:42:47.453 greatly exceed anthropogenic emissions, and of course cannot be abated. 1:42:48.093 --> 1:42:51.133 The policy vehicle to achieve net zero is to replace 1:42:51.373 --> 1:42:56.613 energy generated by fossil fuels with so called renewables. There 1:42:56.653 --> 1:43:00.253 is nothing, well, not much. There is nothing wrong with 1:43:00.573 --> 1:43:05.333 renewable energy in some applications solar cells, operating water pumps 1:43:05.573 --> 1:43:09.493 and the like in remote locations, for instance. But nobody 1:43:09.653 --> 1:43:13.493 hailing from local institutions and businesses that have the government's ear, 1:43:13.813 --> 1:43:17.533 nor the international associations to which they pander, seem to 1:43:17.613 --> 1:43:22.413 have told the government that electricity costs increase logarithmically with 1:43:22.733 --> 1:43:28.093 increasing percentage of renewables in baseload supply. This is because 1:43:28.293 --> 1:43:34.773 large scale renewables incur massive costs avoided by controversial fossil fuel, nuclear, 1:43:34.813 --> 1:43:40.053 TiO energy sources, including but not limited to the cost 1:43:40.253 --> 1:43:44.333 of very large tracts of land. Now I shall put 1:43:44.333 --> 1:43:48.333 the rest of it aside, and we shall assume consumption 1:43:48.453 --> 1:43:51.893 of it, very likely next week. But there is one 1:43:52.013 --> 1:43:56.853 more headline that I think deserves quoting. It also is 1:43:56.853 --> 1:44:01.173 from an Australian Publication, as was the previous outtake from 1:44:01.173 --> 1:44:07.293 The Australian yesterday from Judith Sloan, Government's pride in carbon 1:44:07.413 --> 1:44:11.773 tax is proof it's out of its depth. Government's pride 1:44:11.933 --> 1:44:15.773 in carbon tax is proof it's out of its depth. 1:44:17.093 --> 1:44:19.533 You don't suppose that's applicable that in this country? Also? 1:44:19.613 --> 1:44:23.293 Do you? It most certainly is and that will take 1:44:23.333 --> 1:44:26.573 us out for podcasts two hundred and seventy one. If 1:44:26.613 --> 1:44:28.693 you would like to write to us then please do 1:44:28.973 --> 1:44:31.853 latent at NEWSTALKSB dot co dot nz or you can 1:44:31.853 --> 1:44:34.453 address Carolyn if you want, c O. L y n 1:44:34.573 --> 1:44:39.253 at NEWSTALKSB dot co dot nz. Love to hear your 1:44:39.253 --> 1:44:43.933 opinions for some reason, especially today and today's discussion. So 1:44:44.133 --> 1:44:47.293 we shall return within the week with podcasts number two 1:44:47.373 --> 1:44:51.453 hundred and seventy two. So there is only one thing 1:44:51.573 --> 1:44:54.733 left to say, thank you for listening, and we'll talk soon. 1:45:02.613 --> 1:45:06.813 Thank you for more from Newstalks EDB. Listen live on 1:45:06.933 --> 1:45:09.893 air or online and keep our shows with you wherever 1:45:09.973 --> 1:45:12.533 you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio