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Speaker 1: Money Time Finance Talk with Chris Cohler. He is the

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Speaker 1: finance editor at nine Channel nine TV nine in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Some of the well known Australian financial journalists if you

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Speaker 1: follow such matters media personality Allan Cohler. He's become very

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Speaker 1: popular too on social media, has Chris as he makes

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Speaker 1: the dry old world of money entertaining anyway. He's got

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Speaker 1: a book out It's called How They Get You And

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Speaker 1: Chris Coler's with us morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike. Good to be with you, right, Chris.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with us. I speak unfortunately and slightly embarrassed

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Speaker 1: this morning by our dollar. It's sitting about eighty five

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Speaker 1: eighty six Australian at the moment. I also read, by

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Speaker 1: the way, the Australian's breached seventy US. Someone told me

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Speaker 1: the other day it could go to ninety US by

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Speaker 1: the end of the year. What's going on?

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Speaker 2: That's the big question, isn't it. I mean, you get

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Speaker 2: a different answer depending on who you ask on that one.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of professional foreign exchange traders and analysts

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Speaker 2: who are kind of all over the page on where

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Speaker 2: these currencies are heading. I mean, the big reason there's

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Speaker 2: broad based weakness in the US dollar. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of commodity price strength which tends to help the Australian dollar,

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Speaker 2: and the New Zealand dollar tends to parrot what the

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Speaker 2: Australian dollar does at least a little bit. And then

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Speaker 2: you've got the general risk on the sentiment as well.

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Speaker 2: Of course, you've also got this increasing chance of an

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Speaker 2: interest rate hike here in Australia next Tuesday's meeting. So

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Speaker 2: all these things taken together are pushing the Australian dollar

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Speaker 2: to high has not seen for three years and also

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Speaker 2: having some effects to on the New Zealand dollar as

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Speaker 2: well as for where we're going, As I said, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it kind of depends who you ask. There are some

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Speaker 2: out there who say that the Aussie dollar is going

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Speaker 2: to come back down. Others say it's going to go further.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, luckily for me, I talk about what

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Speaker 2: happened today and yesterday, not what's going to happen tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: which is great because I never know.

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Speaker 1: When you say, go out into Martin Place and talk

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Speaker 1: to your average Australian. At the moment you've got a

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Speaker 1: strong dollar. That's good. Michelle Bullock at the RB she

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Speaker 1: may well be hiking before we know it. Would the

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Speaker 1: average Australian tell you that things broadly speaking are pretty

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Speaker 1: good overall or not.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think the answer to that is probably not really.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it depends on your situation. But we track

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Speaker 2: something called the Consumer Sentiment Data which comes out each

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Speaker 2: month from Westpac, and it is continuing below long run

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Speaker 2: averages it has been for some time. So generally speaking,

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Speaker 2: the sentiment is pessimistic. The idea is that things are

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Speaker 2: not going to get better, but you know, we're going

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Speaker 2: to have to continue our tight household budgetary stance for

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Speaker 2: a while. We had three interest rate cuts here in

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Speaker 2: Australia in twenty twenty five, but all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: as I stand here now, it looks like we're going

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Speaker 2: to get some interest rate hikes in twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 2: So people take that on. The average new mortgage in

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Speaker 2: Australia is now seven hundred thousand dollars, so an interest

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Speaker 2: rate hike adds about one hundred dollars a month to

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Speaker 2: the bank in interest for those people, and that's felt

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Speaker 2: immediately and severely.

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Speaker 1: Now, as regards your book, how they get you, how

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Speaker 1: do they get you?

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Speaker 2: Well? It's the book with twenty four chapters. There's twenty

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Speaker 2: four ways that I look at how they get you

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Speaker 2: and they of course is different in each chapter, but

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Speaker 2: it's a range of things. It's how insurance companies operate

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Speaker 2: in making sure that their margins are the best that

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Speaker 2: they possibly can be. It's about how mortgages operate in

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Speaker 2: the number of fees that we kind of let slip

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Speaker 2: under our radar, subscriptions, food delivery, car loans. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they're kind of the intent of the book is to

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Speaker 2: have a good, thorough look at something that tends to

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Speaker 2: be boring and pushed to the side.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's boring? I mean, do you think

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Speaker 1: people at least in part, sort of don't understand it. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: and because they don't understand it, they can excuse it.

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Speaker 2: I think people are really smart, actually, I think that

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Speaker 2: they just are presented with information in a way that

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Speaker 2: makes them feel like it's nebulous, or it's above their heads,

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Speaker 2: or they don't have the right education. But I think

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Speaker 2: for most people, their radar of when something isn't fair

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Speaker 2: and when something is a bit off is really good.

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Speaker 2: But I think that they're not given the tools to

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Speaker 2: argue with financial institutions in a way that might help them.

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Speaker 2: There's not a lot of financial education that's done young,

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Speaker 2: which then stays with you. But I think for the

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Speaker 2: most part, people just need to apply a little bit

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Speaker 2: of the kind of now so that they give themselves

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Speaker 2: elsewhere in their lives, and they just need to sit

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Speaker 2: down once every couple of months and give a hard

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Speaker 2: time to the institutions that they're handing over all their

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Speaker 2: hard earned money to.

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Speaker 1: Now. Hell day, you do, Hell day, don't you?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I do, and it is it's hell day

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Speaker 2: for me too. I mean, it's kind of one of

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Speaker 2: those things where I every six months, I try to

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Speaker 2: sit down and look at what I'm paying for utilities,

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Speaker 2: look at what my variable mortgage rate is sitting at,

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Speaker 2: you know, what my insurance, car loans and all these

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Speaker 2: sorts of things, and I just try to create a stack.

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Speaker 2: I try to work through it as many on the

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Speaker 2: list as I can, and even if it's one or

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Speaker 2: two things that day, I still consider it to be

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Speaker 2: a win because I've saved a little bit of money.

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Speaker 2: And in the end, as we were saying, with interest

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Speaker 2: rates and kind of the general situation where being presented with.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think a little bit of money is

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Speaker 2: extremely important at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Because that for real life, Because I mean I look

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Speaker 1: at so I mean, you can save a few dollars

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Speaker 1: if you work hard on you I don't know, car insurance,

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Speaker 1: or you can say four dollars fifty seven a month

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Speaker 1: if you change power companies. So a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: of course, can't be bothered. That's the whole churn argument.

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Speaker 1: So do you subscribe to that? Look after the pennies

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Speaker 1: and the pounds will take care of themselves.

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Speaker 2: I do. I also think that it's more than pennies

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Speaker 2: at the moment. I mean we're talking about, as I said,

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Speaker 2: the difference between the best and the worst mortgage rate

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Speaker 2: out there at the moment is a couple hundred bucks

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Speaker 2: a month for people. The difference between the best and

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Speaker 2: the worst in insurance, whether it's time insurance, car insurance,

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Speaker 2: or life insurance, is also probably going to be dozens

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Speaker 2: of dollars a month, if not hundreds. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: start to do this for various pockets of your financial

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Speaker 2: life and you do notice a difference. It's kind of that,

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Speaker 2: you know, dollar saved is a dollar earned. We're all

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Speaker 2: focused on making sure that our income continues to rise.

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Speaker 2: You know what, ages need to outpace inflation. I think

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Speaker 2: it's very important to to have a good hard look

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Speaker 2: at the money that we're spending and whether or not

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Speaker 2: we can be spending less. I mean, these are essential costs,

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Speaker 2: is what I'm talking about. Never mind, you know the

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Speaker 2: budget that we're putting towards discretionary or non essential things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Now do you, and we mentioned briefly in

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Speaker 1: the intro before, do you come at this with an advantage?

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Speaker 1: You know, giving your dad's a bit famous, you probably

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Speaker 1: grew up a bit around you money and knowledge, and

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Speaker 1: therefore this is what you've become.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. Look, he and I have spoken over

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Speaker 2: the years since I was a kid about his job

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Speaker 2: in the same way that any parent talks to their

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Speaker 2: kids about their job. His was that, you know, I

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Speaker 2: look at the world of money and the way things

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Speaker 2: move around, and I adopted an interest as a lot

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Speaker 2: of other kids do. Yeah, I followed my feed into it,

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Speaker 2: and we still to this day. I'm very lucky in

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Speaker 2: that I get to talk to him about the economy

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Speaker 2: and macro staff world of AI. What's going to be

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Speaker 2: happening there for anyone listening, of course, who doesn't know

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Speaker 2: he's the finance going on the ABC News. I'm the

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Speaker 2: finance on channel nine years so as my mum says

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Speaker 2: that she doesn't have to pick because I'm on at

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Speaker 2: six and he's on at seven.

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Speaker 1: Broadcasting question for you, you work at channel nine, can

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Speaker 1: you do what you do in a way that satisfies

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Speaker 1: you in the commercial world of television news as opposed

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Speaker 1: to say, your dad at the ABC where they are

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Speaker 1: longer format stories, maybe even c NBC where that's all

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Speaker 1: they do, if you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never had an issue doing my job in

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Speaker 2: a commercial broadcaster. It's never been something that has been

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Speaker 2: put to me to do a story differently or to

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Speaker 2: present it in a way that I may not have

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Speaker 2: already been presenting it. In fact, I think that's so

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Speaker 2: fundamental in it, so true to this business and really

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Speaker 2: any commercial broadcaster that takes itself seriously is that what

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Speaker 2: you have at the end of the day is to

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Speaker 2: trust and that's what you're trading on, and if you

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Speaker 2: start to muck around with that, then things can come

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Speaker 2: down around you.

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Speaker 1: But you've never been told, look, you know can you

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Speaker 1: just lighten it up, don't use the big words. People

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Speaker 1: won't understand. Nothing like that.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think I haven't worked at the ABBC before.

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Speaker 2: I've worked in a few newsrooms, all of them have

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Speaker 2: been in commercial ones. We have editorial discussions, but they

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Speaker 2: are editorial discussions. There's never really any kind of idea

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Speaker 2: that we need to pan into the audience. As I

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Speaker 2: said before, I think the people who watch the news

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Speaker 2: and pick up a newspaper, they're interested. They are for

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Speaker 2: the most part informed. You know, they have a base

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Speaker 2: level of understanding, and they don't want to be brought

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Speaker 2: back to the very very beginning. They want to be

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Speaker 2: kept abreast of the new development.

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Speaker 1: And of course the other side to you these days

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Speaker 1: are social media, very very big following globally. Of course.

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Speaker 1: Is that one influential and two educational? And is it

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Speaker 1: the way of the future in terms of informing people

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Speaker 1: about money and finance?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's certainly educational to me. Like it gives me

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Speaker 2: a really interesting insight into how people are absorbing different

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Speaker 2: types of media. I've been a journalist for a long time.

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Speaker 2: I've only been dabbling in this way in a kind

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Speaker 2: of a satirical and sort of comical way on social

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Speaker 2: media for a couple of years. But as you say,

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Speaker 2: it's grown quite a bit and it's given me some

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Speaker 2: things to reflect on. I mean, it's very It's noticeable

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Speaker 2: to me that my job is to talk about the

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Speaker 2: economy for Australians. It goes on the TV here in Australia.

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Speaker 2: It's for the most part, it's for those audiences. And

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Speaker 2: when I started in social media, I was doing that.

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Speaker 2: But to my surprise, I noticed large audiences developing in

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Speaker 2: different parts of the world that I just had not expected.

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Speaker 2: You know, people in North America, in the UK, people

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Speaker 2: get in touch with me from Estonia saying, oh does

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Speaker 2: that you know? Is that how it works here? And

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Speaker 2: I have to go back to them say, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: I don't actually know if that's how it works in Estonia.

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Speaker 2: It's been an interesting journey and one that I'm really

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Speaker 2: glad that I've been on. But it's it certainly helped

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Speaker 2: me do a better job about my job. I reckon

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Speaker 2: forgetting immediate feedback on what people are engaging with and

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Speaker 2: what they aren't.

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Speaker 1: What about the bigger, longer term picture, I mean, the

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Speaker 1: supplies to new Zealand as well. Is there something in

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Speaker 1: growing up educated in moneies and economies? I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: should we be doing more in schools?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it should be more of a bigger

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Speaker 2: slice of the curriculum. I would love to see that

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Speaker 2: practical ways. I mean a lot of the stuff's being

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Speaker 2: taught already, but I would love to see it done

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Speaker 2: in a more of a practical way. Whether we're talking

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Speaker 2: about mathematics, we're talking about interest rates, and oh, by

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Speaker 2: the way, this credit card, you know, this is how

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Speaker 2: to work out that you're getting a twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: interest rate, you're getting one hundred and fifty dollars annual fee,

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Speaker 2: and actually maybe it's not the best way to access

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Speaker 2: your money. And those loyalty points, well, let's look at

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Speaker 2: them mathematically and let's boil down whether or not they're

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Speaker 2: actually good value. I would love to see that sort

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Speaker 2: of thing. I think teachers do a wonderful job, and

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Speaker 2: it's not really up to them. I think it's on

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Speaker 2: all of us, whether at home, at school, or elsewhere,

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Speaker 2: to help educate kids on sort of where the pitfalls

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Speaker 2: are in a modern economy.

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Speaker 1: Well, keep telling the story, Chris, appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Good to talk to you, you too much.

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Speaker 1: Thank you all right, So, Chris Cole, the book is

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Speaker 1: How They Get You.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: News Talks at B from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio