1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,907 Speaker 1: from Newstalks edb. 3 00:00:12,867 --> 00:00:16,787 Speaker 2: Thoroughly embarrassing night for the All Blacks, but are wonderful 4 00:00:16,907 --> 00:00:20,947 Speaker 2: nights for South Africa. They have demolished the All Blacks, 5 00:00:21,027 --> 00:00:22,867 Speaker 2: they have humiliated the All Blacks. 6 00:00:23,387 --> 00:00:26,307 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was Wellington mid year. Let's get a South 7 00:00:26,347 --> 00:00:29,307 Speaker 3: African view on what's played out in the last few days. 8 00:00:29,307 --> 00:00:32,907 Speaker 3: It was a great pleasure during the year to meet 9 00:00:33,027 --> 00:00:36,867 Speaker 3: Dan Houghton, the founder of the South African rugby supporters group, 10 00:00:37,227 --> 00:00:39,987 Speaker 3: the Brye Army. He was here with a whole bunch 11 00:00:39,987 --> 00:00:42,427 Speaker 3: of his countrymen for both of those test matches Auckland 12 00:00:42,427 --> 00:00:45,027 Speaker 3: and that one in Wellington. He joins us now from 13 00:00:45,067 --> 00:00:48,667 Speaker 3: Cape Town. Dan, thanks for giving us some South African 14 00:00:48,707 --> 00:00:52,027 Speaker 3: insight into this. First of all, in general terms, how 15 00:00:52,067 --> 00:00:54,947 Speaker 3: big a surprise was it to hear the news that 16 00:00:55,067 --> 00:00:57,987 Speaker 3: Scott Robertson was gone as All Blacks coach. 17 00:01:01,187 --> 00:01:02,907 Speaker 4: Well, we're very surprised. 18 00:01:03,787 --> 00:01:05,947 Speaker 5: I guess we had heard some stuff in the press, 19 00:01:06,027 --> 00:01:08,787 Speaker 5: like everyone else about when he did your review. I 20 00:01:08,787 --> 00:01:11,707 Speaker 5: think Ardie Severe said some stuff that he was going 21 00:01:11,787 --> 00:01:14,147 Speaker 5: to leave the All Blacks and all that, which obviously 22 00:01:14,227 --> 00:01:17,347 Speaker 5: is not a great thing, so yeah, but still like 23 00:01:17,947 --> 00:01:23,227 Speaker 5: quite dramatic sack your coach eighteen months or two years 24 00:01:23,267 --> 00:01:24,187 Speaker 5: just before the World Cup. 25 00:01:24,867 --> 00:01:26,867 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's quite a dramatic move by you guys. 26 00:01:27,027 --> 00:01:30,147 Speaker 5: So I hope it works out for you. 27 00:01:30,227 --> 00:01:36,107 Speaker 3: Well not ready, you said that through gritted teeth. I 28 00:01:36,147 --> 00:01:36,947 Speaker 3: love it, I love it. 29 00:01:36,987 --> 00:01:38,347 Speaker 4: Well yeah, yeah, no, exactly. 30 00:01:39,067 --> 00:01:41,187 Speaker 3: Well there is a bit of a parallel here, isn't 31 00:01:41,227 --> 00:01:44,787 Speaker 3: there with what happened in South African rugby Alistair Kurtzyer 32 00:01:44,827 --> 00:01:48,387 Speaker 3: sacked in early twenty eighteen, less than two years later 33 00:01:48,507 --> 00:01:51,107 Speaker 3: your World champions and then you repeat it in twenty 34 00:01:51,147 --> 00:01:54,987 Speaker 3: twenty three. Can New Zealand rugby fans take heart from 35 00:01:55,027 --> 00:01:59,067 Speaker 3: the history of South Africa in the last six or 36 00:01:59,067 --> 00:02:00,347 Speaker 3: seven years. 37 00:02:01,347 --> 00:02:01,787 Speaker 4: I think so. 38 00:02:01,987 --> 00:02:04,427 Speaker 5: But you've also got a look at a perspective. At 39 00:02:04,467 --> 00:02:08,027 Speaker 5: the time South Africa we're ranked number six or seven 40 00:02:08,067 --> 00:02:12,387 Speaker 5: in the world. I think when Russi took over, so 41 00:02:12,467 --> 00:02:15,147 Speaker 5: I was about twenty eighteen, so there's no real pressure 42 00:02:15,147 --> 00:02:17,547 Speaker 5: on him and the target was always going to be 43 00:02:17,547 --> 00:02:21,067 Speaker 5: the twenty twenty three World Cup, whereas New Zealand a 44 00:02:21,147 --> 00:02:25,107 Speaker 5: ranked number two right now in the world and the 45 00:02:25,147 --> 00:02:27,907 Speaker 5: twenty twenty seven World Cup is always going to be 46 00:02:27,947 --> 00:02:29,627 Speaker 5: the one that you guys are going to be wanting 47 00:02:29,707 --> 00:02:32,587 Speaker 5: to win, not necessarily twenty thirty one. So I think, 48 00:02:32,707 --> 00:02:36,387 Speaker 5: like the pressures are a little bit different, but there 49 00:02:36,467 --> 00:02:39,787 Speaker 5: is definitely hope for New Zealand. You guys are still 50 00:02:39,867 --> 00:02:41,987 Speaker 5: number two in the world. Let's be honest, You're You've 51 00:02:42,027 --> 00:02:46,147 Speaker 5: still got some great players, but you've got high standards 52 00:02:46,147 --> 00:02:49,907 Speaker 5: as well, and I think maybe that's well, it's a 53 00:02:49,947 --> 00:02:51,507 Speaker 5: good thing to have high standards, I guess. 54 00:02:51,587 --> 00:02:55,547 Speaker 4: So, yeah, we're still afraid of you. Don't worry. Okay, 55 00:02:55,627 --> 00:02:58,627 Speaker 4: well then were we respect you? Respect? You're not afraid afraid. 56 00:02:58,627 --> 00:03:00,707 Speaker 4: It's not the right word, respect you massively. 57 00:03:00,827 --> 00:03:04,307 Speaker 3: So yeah, Well, South African rugby fans, more than I 58 00:03:04,347 --> 00:03:07,547 Speaker 3: think any other rugby fans around the world, understand the 59 00:03:07,587 --> 00:03:11,107 Speaker 3: harsh brutality of this job or Black's head coach. But 60 00:03:11,547 --> 00:03:13,307 Speaker 3: I mean, do you have a degree of sympathy for 61 00:03:13,347 --> 00:03:16,747 Speaker 3: a guy who had a seventy four percent win record 62 00:03:16,947 --> 00:03:20,267 Speaker 3: during his time as All Black's coach. Only Rassi Erasmus 63 00:03:20,307 --> 00:03:25,107 Speaker 3: among international coaches had a better win record than Scott Robertson. 64 00:03:26,627 --> 00:03:29,947 Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, no, like he I think in the games 65 00:03:29,987 --> 00:03:33,467 Speaker 5: that we played, you beat us in Auckland, didn't you. 66 00:03:33,547 --> 00:03:35,987 Speaker 5: We gave you a bit of a thrashing in Wellington. 67 00:03:36,907 --> 00:03:41,107 Speaker 5: But apart from that, losing to England obviously wasn't good 68 00:03:41,147 --> 00:03:45,187 Speaker 5: for you guys, but like you weren't terrible, like, But 69 00:03:45,547 --> 00:03:48,667 Speaker 5: I've got a feeling like, certainly like losing the dressing 70 00:03:48,747 --> 00:03:52,187 Speaker 5: room was a big thing for him, and I'm not 71 00:03:52,227 --> 00:03:56,187 Speaker 5: too sure if like players should be able to take 72 00:03:56,467 --> 00:03:59,307 Speaker 5: matters into their own hands, which possibly could be termed 73 00:03:59,307 --> 00:04:03,307 Speaker 5: as Yeah, it's a bit of a precedent, doesn't it 74 00:04:04,147 --> 00:04:06,907 Speaker 5: when you do things like that. So I hope that 75 00:04:07,587 --> 00:04:10,827 Speaker 5: is not the only reason that they took Scott down. 76 00:04:10,867 --> 00:04:13,707 Speaker 5: But yeah, it certainly seems like from what I've read 77 00:04:13,787 --> 00:04:15,867 Speaker 5: or at least heard in the press, that might have 78 00:04:15,947 --> 00:04:18,107 Speaker 5: been one of the big reasons behind him losing his job. 79 00:04:18,267 --> 00:04:20,987 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was certainly dissatisfaction among the playing group. There 80 00:04:20,987 --> 00:04:23,627 Speaker 3: were other factors that play as well. But when you 81 00:04:23,627 --> 00:04:26,347 Speaker 3: were here last year, Dan, obviously, as you say, there 82 00:04:26,387 --> 00:04:30,067 Speaker 3: was the Titanic struggle up at Auckland and then the 83 00:04:30,507 --> 00:04:33,067 Speaker 3: thrashing as you put it, and it's an apt term 84 00:04:33,227 --> 00:04:36,587 Speaker 3: in Wellington in and around that game. If you were 85 00:04:36,627 --> 00:04:39,307 Speaker 3: mixing with all Blacks fans. What sense did you get 86 00:04:39,347 --> 00:04:41,667 Speaker 3: after that game? Did you get a sense that that 87 00:04:41,947 --> 00:04:44,227 Speaker 3: this might be a bit like you know, twenty seventeen 88 00:04:44,707 --> 00:04:49,987 Speaker 3: for Alistair, in that a defeat of this magnitude might 89 00:04:50,627 --> 00:04:53,267 Speaker 3: inevitably cost Scott robertson his job. 90 00:04:55,187 --> 00:04:57,187 Speaker 6: I think so, Like after that game, certainly, I think 91 00:04:57,187 --> 00:04:58,907 Speaker 6: a half time, you guys might have been leading or 92 00:04:59,027 --> 00:05:01,667 Speaker 6: was very very close, and then we kind of blew 93 00:05:01,707 --> 00:05:04,947 Speaker 6: you away after halftime, and we had some good bands 94 00:05:04,947 --> 00:05:07,667 Speaker 6: are going in the crowd in the STA chatting about 95 00:05:07,667 --> 00:05:09,547 Speaker 6: the game at halftime, and then at the end of 96 00:05:09,547 --> 00:05:12,187 Speaker 6: the game, everyone was pretty well All Blacks fans. 97 00:05:12,187 --> 00:05:15,707 Speaker 5: Of course, they were pretty down coast and you know, 98 00:05:15,747 --> 00:05:17,987 Speaker 5: there were handshakes gone around and well played et cetera. 99 00:05:18,387 --> 00:05:21,467 Speaker 5: But I kind of like got the feeling that there 100 00:05:21,507 --> 00:05:24,667 Speaker 5: was a lot of discontent amongst the All Blacks fans, 101 00:05:24,707 --> 00:05:26,947 Speaker 5: and I just. 102 00:05:27,667 --> 00:05:31,427 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not nice being on the other foot. She'd 103 00:05:31,467 --> 00:05:32,307 Speaker 4: been on the other foot. 104 00:05:32,307 --> 00:05:36,867 Speaker 5: But it's like we've been there, we've done that, but 105 00:05:37,027 --> 00:05:39,627 Speaker 5: we've come back stronger, and I think the All Blacks 106 00:05:39,627 --> 00:05:41,867 Speaker 5: will be doing exactly that. They'll be coming back stronger 107 00:05:42,867 --> 00:05:45,267 Speaker 5: this World Cup. You know, it's in Australia, and I'm 108 00:05:45,267 --> 00:05:46,867 Speaker 5: sure there's lots of Chymis are going to be there, 109 00:05:46,907 --> 00:05:48,627 Speaker 5: so it's almost a bit like a bit of a 110 00:05:48,667 --> 00:05:52,227 Speaker 5: home World Cup for you guys as well. So I 111 00:05:52,227 --> 00:05:55,707 Speaker 5: have no doubt that it's just a short term thing. 112 00:05:55,867 --> 00:05:58,707 Speaker 5: But yeah, whoever the replacement is has got a tough 113 00:05:58,747 --> 00:05:59,987 Speaker 5: job on his hands, that's for sure. 114 00:06:00,067 --> 00:06:02,627 Speaker 3: Well let's go there, because Jamie Joseph is the front 115 00:06:02,667 --> 00:06:05,787 Speaker 3: runner to take over. He's worked a lot with Tony Brown, 116 00:06:05,907 --> 00:06:11,947 Speaker 3: who was your or attack. You've lean you've lent nicely 117 00:06:11,987 --> 00:06:14,107 Speaker 3: into my into my question. How big a blow would 118 00:06:14,147 --> 00:06:17,187 Speaker 3: it be if Tony Brown was somehow teammed it away? 119 00:06:17,267 --> 00:06:18,027 Speaker 4: He's a great coach. 120 00:06:18,947 --> 00:06:22,387 Speaker 5: Yeah, so well, I mean, like if he wants to go, 121 00:06:22,467 --> 00:06:24,547 Speaker 5: I guess you can't really force the guy to stay 122 00:06:24,707 --> 00:06:26,787 Speaker 5: unless well you don't know what the contracts are like. 123 00:06:26,907 --> 00:06:29,827 Speaker 5: But you know, for any Kiwi, I'm sure the goal 124 00:06:29,987 --> 00:06:31,827 Speaker 5: is to be a coach of the All Backs or 125 00:06:31,827 --> 00:06:34,387 Speaker 5: at least part of the coaching squad, So you know, 126 00:06:34,467 --> 00:06:36,627 Speaker 5: good honor, if Tony gets off at a roll there 127 00:06:37,227 --> 00:06:39,267 Speaker 5: and he wants it, then he should go for it. 128 00:06:39,307 --> 00:06:41,907 Speaker 5: But you know, he also might have quite a few 129 00:06:41,947 --> 00:06:45,947 Speaker 5: of our plans you know, written down, and he's going 130 00:06:45,987 --> 00:06:48,107 Speaker 5: to be passing them on to Jamie if he does 131 00:06:48,107 --> 00:06:51,707 Speaker 5: get the job, of course, you know. But uh yeah, 132 00:06:51,747 --> 00:06:54,027 Speaker 5: if he wants to go, good for him, like he's 133 00:06:54,507 --> 00:06:58,307 Speaker 5: he's a great coach, and yeah, I'm sure all backs 134 00:06:58,307 --> 00:07:00,227 Speaker 5: will be a lot better or a lot stronger with 135 00:07:00,307 --> 00:07:01,187 Speaker 5: him in the coaching team. 136 00:07:01,307 --> 00:07:03,507 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of clamor 137 00:07:03,627 --> 00:07:05,747 Speaker 3: I must say to try and get him out of there. 138 00:07:06,387 --> 00:07:09,267 Speaker 3: But then I try to get myself inside Tony Brown's head, 139 00:07:09,307 --> 00:07:12,027 Speaker 3: you know, Dan, and I think to myself, well, he's 140 00:07:12,067 --> 00:07:16,467 Speaker 3: an absolutely world class setup working alongside Rasi Erasmus, a 141 00:07:16,547 --> 00:07:19,387 Speaker 3: generational coach, with a World Cup now less than two 142 00:07:19,507 --> 00:07:22,467 Speaker 3: years away. The All Blacks coaching job may well be 143 00:07:22,587 --> 00:07:25,787 Speaker 3: there for him beyond twenty twenty seven. So can you 144 00:07:25,827 --> 00:07:28,987 Speaker 3: see a scenario under which Tony Brown actually stays with 145 00:07:29,067 --> 00:07:31,627 Speaker 3: you guys at least until twenty twenty seven. 146 00:07:32,907 --> 00:07:35,187 Speaker 5: Yeah, potentially, I mean it might get in the All 147 00:07:35,227 --> 00:07:37,667 Speaker 5: Blacks coaching role might be a poisoned chalice as well. 148 00:07:38,027 --> 00:07:41,787 Speaker 5: You know, you're there for a couple of years, you 149 00:07:41,867 --> 00:07:45,227 Speaker 5: don't win the World Cup and then you're out, and 150 00:07:45,267 --> 00:07:47,387 Speaker 5: then whoever comes in, has least got four years in 151 00:07:47,427 --> 00:07:50,147 Speaker 5: which to build them up to where is It's an USA, 152 00:07:50,227 --> 00:07:52,747 Speaker 5: isn't it the next one? So twenty thirty one World 153 00:07:52,787 --> 00:07:57,027 Speaker 5: Cup in USA? So yeah, maybe it is best just 154 00:07:57,107 --> 00:08:00,707 Speaker 5: to hold fire. And I know that's where his contract 155 00:08:00,747 --> 00:08:05,947 Speaker 5: runs up to his twenty twenty seven, So do that please. 156 00:08:07,427 --> 00:08:09,907 Speaker 5: I would say like it would be preferable for us 157 00:08:10,347 --> 00:08:14,907 Speaker 5: if he did that, definitely, But from your guys perspective, 158 00:08:15,387 --> 00:08:17,787 Speaker 5: I guess you guys want the best coaches out there 159 00:08:17,827 --> 00:08:21,547 Speaker 5: to be with the All Blacks, and definitely, in our opinion, 160 00:08:21,587 --> 00:08:23,547 Speaker 5: Tony Brown is like one of the best out there. 161 00:08:24,107 --> 00:08:26,427 Speaker 3: So we're on our way to you later this year 162 00:08:26,507 --> 00:08:30,307 Speaker 3: for the greatest rivalry tour that is set to be 163 00:08:30,307 --> 00:08:33,547 Speaker 3: an absolute cracker. How much are Spring Box fans looking 164 00:08:33,627 --> 00:08:36,227 Speaker 3: forward to to the All Backs coming over for three tests? 165 00:08:36,267 --> 00:08:38,147 Speaker 3: Obviously we don't know where the fourth one is yet, 166 00:08:38,187 --> 00:08:41,187 Speaker 3: but how much are you and the Bry Army and 167 00:08:41,467 --> 00:08:42,747 Speaker 3: South African fans looking. 168 00:08:42,547 --> 00:08:42,947 Speaker 4: Forward to that? 169 00:08:43,147 --> 00:08:46,347 Speaker 5: It's huge, huge, I mean, like we've got a big 170 00:08:46,827 --> 00:08:51,027 Speaker 5: overseas supporters based in Europe and like I've had loads 171 00:08:51,027 --> 00:08:54,147 Speaker 5: of people saying they're coming South African expats who live 172 00:08:54,147 --> 00:08:56,227 Speaker 5: in Europe saying that they want to come down, they 173 00:08:56,267 --> 00:08:58,827 Speaker 5: want to watch the games there that we don't often 174 00:08:58,867 --> 00:09:01,987 Speaker 5: get that, you know, Normally it's just like, oh, well, 175 00:09:01,987 --> 00:09:04,027 Speaker 5: we'll watch the spring Box when they're up in Europe 176 00:09:04,027 --> 00:09:04,627 Speaker 5: in November. 177 00:09:04,907 --> 00:09:06,507 Speaker 4: But now they're like, we want to go down and 178 00:09:06,507 --> 00:09:06,867 Speaker 4: we want to. 179 00:09:06,827 --> 00:09:10,467 Speaker 5: Watch this game, these games, So yeah, they're all going 180 00:09:10,507 --> 00:09:13,947 Speaker 5: to be sellouts, definitely, and I think the provincial games 181 00:09:13,987 --> 00:09:16,987 Speaker 5: are also going to be sellouts as well because Durban 182 00:09:17,107 --> 00:09:21,587 Speaker 5: and Pretoria didn't get test matches, so that those games 183 00:09:21,587 --> 00:09:24,667 Speaker 5: will I'm sure the stadiums will sell out. So like 184 00:09:24,827 --> 00:09:28,947 Speaker 5: it's it is huge, it's you know, I think we're 185 00:09:28,987 --> 00:09:32,027 Speaker 5: we can be confident that we've done pretty well recently, 186 00:09:32,147 --> 00:09:35,227 Speaker 5: so we're going into the series quite confidently. 187 00:09:35,347 --> 00:09:38,147 Speaker 4: But yeah, we know the all black so dangerous teams. 188 00:09:38,187 --> 00:09:40,147 Speaker 5: So I'm saying, like, I think it's about like a 189 00:09:40,187 --> 00:09:41,187 Speaker 5: two to one or something like that. 190 00:09:41,267 --> 00:09:43,067 Speaker 4: If you're looking for a score line. 191 00:09:43,307 --> 00:09:45,427 Speaker 3: Well I can tell you where we're We're looking at 192 00:09:45,427 --> 00:09:48,147 Speaker 3: it with a degree of trepidation. Dan, If I'm honest, 193 00:09:48,347 --> 00:09:52,587 Speaker 3: given given the news down here, have you heard a 194 00:09:52,627 --> 00:09:54,827 Speaker 3: white Well, that's good to hear. Have you heard any 195 00:09:54,867 --> 00:09:56,427 Speaker 3: one of the room. What are the rumors about the 196 00:09:56,427 --> 00:09:57,467 Speaker 3: fourth Test location? 197 00:09:57,547 --> 00:09:58,507 Speaker 4: Are you hearing anything? 198 00:09:59,907 --> 00:10:02,787 Speaker 5: Well, it was going to be twicking in, then it 199 00:10:02,827 --> 00:10:05,787 Speaker 5: went to Dublin, and then we're hearing about it being 200 00:10:05,787 --> 00:10:10,587 Speaker 5: in the US. But which would be great for American 201 00:10:10,667 --> 00:10:14,067 Speaker 5: rugby fans, I guess. But there's also the US government 202 00:10:14,107 --> 00:10:17,747 Speaker 5: has recently just changed things with visas for South Africans 203 00:10:17,827 --> 00:10:21,187 Speaker 5: where it's gonna put a big restriction on South African 204 00:10:21,227 --> 00:10:24,187 Speaker 5: fans being able to go to America if the test 205 00:10:24,227 --> 00:10:24,827 Speaker 5: is held there. 206 00:10:24,907 --> 00:10:27,267 Speaker 4: So I think it's still very much up in the air. 207 00:10:27,307 --> 00:10:30,347 Speaker 5: I mean, like I'm in London a lot, so ideally 208 00:10:30,467 --> 00:10:33,227 Speaker 5: i'd like to be in London, but you know, wherever 209 00:10:33,267 --> 00:10:35,867 Speaker 5: it goes, I'm sure it will be a great spectacle 210 00:10:35,867 --> 00:10:38,427 Speaker 5: and I'll do my most to make sure i'm there 211 00:10:38,467 --> 00:10:38,867 Speaker 5: as well. 212 00:10:39,027 --> 00:10:41,667 Speaker 3: Good good man, Dan Hey, you've given us great insight 213 00:10:41,707 --> 00:10:44,667 Speaker 3: into the into the thinking of South African fans. Thanks 214 00:10:44,667 --> 00:10:46,227 Speaker 3: for joining us across news. You got to look forward 215 00:10:46,267 --> 00:10:47,467 Speaker 3: to catching up later in the year. 216 00:10:48,627 --> 00:10:51,467 Speaker 5: Definitely, Jason, we look forward to seeing you in South Africa, 217 00:10:51,507 --> 00:10:53,787 Speaker 5: you know, coming have a beer one of us, come 218 00:10:53,827 --> 00:10:54,987 Speaker 5: and have joined me for a bride. 219 00:10:55,147 --> 00:10:56,067 Speaker 4: We'll enjoy ourselves in. 220 00:10:57,387 --> 00:10:59,987 Speaker 3: I would love that, I would love that. I get 221 00:10:59,987 --> 00:11:03,867 Speaker 3: the feeling that we would talk rugby long into the night. 222 00:11:04,347 --> 00:11:06,987 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, mate, Dan Houghton, in charge of 223 00:11:07,027 --> 00:11:09,827 Speaker 3: the Brie Armies, the founder of the Bricke Army, the 224 00:11:09,907 --> 00:11:12,587 Speaker 3: South African Rugby supporters group. 225 00:11:13,107 --> 00:11:16,307 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 226 00:11:16,427 --> 00:11:19,707 Speaker 1: to news talks at b Weekends from midday, or follow 227 00:11:19,747 --> 00:11:21,347 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.