1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,080
Speaker 1: Any government's confirmed, of course, that they're about to reverse

2
00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,960
Speaker 1: the twenty eighteen ban on oil and gas exploration. New

3
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,240
Speaker 1: exploration will be allowed off the coast of places like

4
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,080
Speaker 1: Taranaki and on conservation land. It will also allow for

5
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 1: small scale, non commercial gold mining. The amendment Bill will

6
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 1: be introduced to Parliament later on this year. Energy Resources

7
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 1: Chief Executive John Carnegie's back with this. John, very good

8
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:19,080
Speaker 1: morning to you.

9
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:20,920
Speaker 2: Yes, good morning, Mike.

10
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 1: Could we say, with the benefit of hindsight, what they

11
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 1: did back in twenty eighteen should never have happened.

12
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, what started off as climate leadership unfortunately ended

13
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,640
Speaker 2: an energy chaos. Yeah. And actually the sad thing that

14
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,320
Speaker 2: that mic is that it didn't need to. It was

15
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,280
Speaker 2: entirely foreseable. You know, it's basic economics. If you squeeze

16
00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,280
Speaker 2: supply in the absence of economic alternatives, all you do

17
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 2: is lose jobs and investment, increase energy prices, you get

18
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,360
Speaker 2: energy shortages, and you encourage fuel imports. And actually, in

19
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 2: New Zealand, the ironic thing here is that coal has

20
00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 2: been the balancing electricity fuel and thank God for genusis

21
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 2: energy of course, but more broadly, the pathway we're on

22
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,560
Speaker 2: if we can't recover domestic gas production, we'll end up

23
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,400
Speaker 2: looking at olng imports in what a silly outcome for

24
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:13,639
Speaker 2: New Zealand that would be.

25
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,960
Speaker 1: Exactly And going exploring though for gas and gas has

26
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 1: been the main talking point in the last couple of weeks,

27
00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 1: given they gave us the supply issue. Do we know

28
00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 1: there's gas there? It's just a matter of finding it

29
00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,039
Speaker 1: or do we not know? And it may well be

30
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,399
Speaker 1: we explore and find nothing.

31
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,959
Speaker 2: Oh, I know in New Zealand's are long known as

32
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,760
Speaker 2: being gas prone. There's putting a guests here. It's just

33
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:39,760
Speaker 2: a matter of getting more explorers down here and having

34
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 2: more wells drilled to find it.

35
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,840
Speaker 1: Right, And so do we have a problem the way

36
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: Jones argues that we do reputationally speaking, that we've damaged

37
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 1: it and we need to resurrect it to get people

38
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,040
Speaker 1: down here to start looking again.

39
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. You know we've got massive sovereign risk

40
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 2: created by the band and the government. Well actually, I

41
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 2: mean in terms of I guess your question is has

42
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 2: have the change has gone far enough? And you know

43
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,519
Speaker 2: only time will tell, of course, because the band did

44
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:21,280
Speaker 2: create severe damage to investment confidence and so obviously what

45
00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 2: we need to do, because we haven't seen the detail

46
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,680
Speaker 2: of the legislation will emerge over coming months. We'll have

47
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,520
Speaker 2: a look at that and we'll make a judgment. And

48
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 2: actually it won't just be our judgment, critically, it will

49
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,240
Speaker 2: be the judgment of investors, both the incumbents that we

50
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:37,960
Speaker 2: have at the moment, because the are the ones who

51
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,680
Speaker 2: are most likely to increase production quickly if if the

52
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,240
Speaker 2: conditions are right, but also overseas investors.

53
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 1: What do you say to that, I mean that it

54
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,639
Speaker 1: seems to be the weird thing about this is I mean,

55
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 1: even if you're not a big fan of oil and gas,

56
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,560
Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is that each and every winter,

57
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 1: transpower come up and say, cold morning, we've got trouble.

58
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 1: We don't produce. There's a massive gap between what we

59
00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,080
Speaker 1: need and what renewables can provide. And I would have

60
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,040
Speaker 1: thought that's like we and all the green the greens

61
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,480
Speaker 1: are still telling us that this is putting profit ahead

62
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,640
Speaker 1: of people, it's putting the climate behind it. What do

63
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,840
Speaker 1: you say to all those people who still don't seem

64
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:08,400
Speaker 1: to get.

65
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 2: It, Well, well they get it, they just get it

66
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 2: within their own terms of reference. I guess actually, I

67
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,480
Speaker 2: mean from my perspective, Mike, we actually need to stop

68
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 2: having one dimensional binary conversations. We don't need to have

69
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,360
Speaker 2: those to make progress on our climate goals. It's not

70
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 2: necessary to trade off the our energy security and affordability,

71
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 2: and frankly, imposing hardship and lowering living standards isn't a

72
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 2: solution in our view. Look, we can have more gas

73
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,720
Speaker 2: and achieve it's an end and achieve our climate goals

74
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,120
Speaker 2: because more natural gas will help underpin the greater development

75
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 2: of renewable sources of electricity. It will stop the important coal,

76
00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 2: it'll encourage by keeping downward pressure on electricity prices, that

77
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 2: will encourage the decarbonization of transport. So that pretty solid

78
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 2: environmental chops. To be honest, Actually, even our Climate Change

79
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 2: Commission thinks we can produce more guests relative to their

80
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,840
Speaker 2: pathway and what we're currently producing. So there's even they

81
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,720
Speaker 2: think that we can still meet our targets with more

82
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:16,360
Speaker 2: guest production.

83
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,280
Speaker 1: Very well, So, John, good to have you on the program.

84
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,800
Speaker 1: Appreciate John Carnegie. Indadew Resources out here are chief executive.

85
00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 2: For more from News Talks EDB listen live on air

86
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,520
Speaker 2: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you

87
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,039
Speaker 2: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,