1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Things are not going well, I'm afraid to tell you 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: when it comes to the battle over organized crime and 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Ministerial Advisory Groups delivered its first report. We have record 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: drug seizures, new tactics from gangs, new streams making cash, 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: a lot of fraud, migrant exploitation, illegal tobacco. The safety 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,119 Speaker 1: and security of kiwis are said to be impacted in 7 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: unprecedented ways. The chair of this Ministerial Advisory Group is 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: Steve Simon. Steve, morning to. 9 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: You, good morning. 10 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: Does what you delivered and what you thought you might 11 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: deliver are they two different things or basically the same. 12 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: But different Mike. I've been doing this for twenty years, 13 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: so I thought by this stage, being a prosecutor for 14 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: two decades, they'd be very little. That surprised me. But 15 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: if you look at the numbers, particularly the wastewater numbers, 16 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 2: and you look at the seizure numbers of how much 17 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 2: we're stopping coming into the country, it's pretty frightening, right. 18 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: Do you place any weight on the partial argument was 19 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: put up when those numbers came out the other day 20 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: of myth and the water that was just gang's dumping. 21 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: The police were raiding them and therefore you spike the figures. 22 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: Well, the disquity without argument is we've seen it go 23 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: up in two quarters now, the end of twenty twenty four, 24 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 2: the start of twenty twenty five. And also it's all 25 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: across the country, so you're seeing it unless is a 26 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: coordinated dumping by these gangs all at the same time. 27 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: What we're seeing is high spike rates in a lot 28 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 2: of rural areas. So all the small towns are there 29 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 2: the ones being affected. 30 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: Right, you've got a banking security expert on your panel. 31 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: Are the banks aware of the money flow? Are they 32 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: all over it or not? 33 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: The banks are aware of money floats, their banks have 34 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: a lot of data. But certainly there's a disconnect between 35 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: the work done by the private world and also the 36 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: government agencies. 37 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's two key points, and that one's the 38 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: private and the government. So the private feel a bit 39 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: locked down and what the government are doing. Is that 40 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: easily solvable in your view or not. 41 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: I don't think it's easily solvable, but it needs to 42 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: be solved and that's certainly something the minister has asked 43 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: us to find a way to do. 44 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: And the other problem, and I've been around a while 45 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: and I've heard this about a million times, and that 46 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: is that no one talks to each other and one 47 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: department doesn't share. When does that get fixed? 48 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, you couldn't be more right. I mean, you pick 49 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: up any report and I've read a few now. They 50 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: all talk about information sharing being one of the biggest 51 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: problems for us collectively to target organized crime. And what 52 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: we need to do is have a pretty honest and 53 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: bold conversation about what information we share between government agencies 54 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: and what is the culture we have in terms of 55 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: encouraging organizations to share information with one another so we 56 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: can target that organized crime. 57 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: Is it culture or is it the law? Are there 58 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: barriers that they would say, Look, I can't. I would, 59 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: but I can't. 60 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 2: I think, to be fair, Mike, it's both. I think 61 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: some agencies are concerned about whether they can share information 62 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: about organized crime because of concerns that they might be 63 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: breaching privacy rights. And there's a conversation to be had there, 64 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: and there's also a cultural piece. If you're working in 65 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: a government organization, you're focusing on what that organization is 66 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: trying to achieve, and sometimes you're not looking outside to 67 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 2: what information might help another organization. Target organized crime. 68 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: Is there any reason why this I don't even know 69 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: if you know the answer. Is there any reason this 70 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: is going to the Assistant Police Commission the cases Costello 71 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: as opposed to Mark Mitchell. 72 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: This was a I think the better way to frame 73 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: it is that Minister Costello kind of took this opportunity 74 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: and ran with it. She's had some interest in this 75 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: for a long time. Of course, at having a background 76 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: herself and the police, and I know that she had 77 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: a big interest in trying to tackle the s issue 78 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: of organized crime. And that was even before these wastewater 79 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: numbers came out, which provided some momentum for her putting 80 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: together this group. And the reason for the group was 81 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: she didn't want another report by a government agency saying 82 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: that same thing good. She wanted us to stand outside 83 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: the independent and do something different. 84 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: What's your vibe on the Steve as in what I'm 85 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: sure you are a very busy man with a lot 86 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: of interesting things to do in life. Do you sit 87 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: on a committee that's going nowhere or do you sit 88 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: on the committee that will affect actual change. 89 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: I sit on a committee as a prosecutor and also 90 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: as a dad worried about what the future might be 91 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: like for my kids, and I think I will make 92 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 2: have a team with me which will make some robust recommendations, 93 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: and I'm hopeful that those recommendations, recommendations will be picked 94 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: up and some positive change will happen. 95 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: Good stuff. Hopefully, talk again. Appreciate it. Steve Simon, chair 96 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: of the Ministerial Advisor, a group for organized crime. 97 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: For more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to 98 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 99 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.