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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct

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Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Access Solutions, elevating you

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Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith with

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Speaker 2: me Liam Napier and for the first time in many weeks,

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Speaker 2: we are face to face in the Rugby Direct studio.

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Speaker 3: Liam, good to see you.

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Speaker 4: Great to see you mate, and welcome home. And I

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Speaker 4: was a long arduist tour and finished with a bit

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Speaker 4: of snow and some pasta.

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Speaker 5: But you're looking well. I haven't had much resk, but

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Speaker 5: it's great to heav be back.

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Speaker 3: It's good to be here. Yes we were.

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Speaker 2: We've been hit the half, hit the ground running, getting

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Speaker 2: back into public demand. Have been clamoring for the podcasts.

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Speaker 2: I said it was going to be the end of

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Speaker 2: the week after she Room. We've had to delay. We

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Speaker 2: are here now and ready to wrap up an all

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Speaker 2: Black season which was a bit of a roller coaster.

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Speaker 2: I guess Liam, if we head straight into it and

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Speaker 2: the roller coaster at the end sort of putted out

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Speaker 2: a little bit and wasn't quite the climax to the

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Speaker 2: season or the ride that many expected.

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Speaker 3: It to be.

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Speaker 4: Now, I guess the finish was deflating, wasn't it. It

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Speaker 4: was a flop of a finale in Turin and it

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Speaker 4: has that context because of the team that the All

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Speaker 4: Black selected Traditionally Italy at the end of the year.

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Speaker 4: While they are an improving team, it is a chance

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Speaker 4: to use your fringe prospects to promote those who haven't

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Speaker 4: played a lot this year. If we think about the

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Speaker 4: guys like Stephen Peterfetta who was left out in the

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Speaker 4: coll for this test, Ruben Love, a number of other

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Speaker 4: guys on the fringe of the squad weren't used, and

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Speaker 4: so the desire from the All Blacks was to finish

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Speaker 4: with a definitive statement, particularly after the disappointment the week

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Speaker 4: before of batching the Test against France Paris and having

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Speaker 4: established combinations, rolling out your best available team. The expectation

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Speaker 4: was the All Blacks would largely put Italy to the sword,

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Speaker 4: and that didn't happen, and there was real frustration both

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Speaker 4: within the camp and externally because of that. It was

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Speaker 4: a really scrappy performance they got frustrated by the Italians, who,

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Speaker 4: to their credit, brought a lot of passion their line

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Speaker 4: speed on defense, they made a mess of the All

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Speaker 4: Blacks right position. But if you sat back, if there

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Speaker 4: was one team that was happy with that performance, not

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Speaker 4: necessarily a result, it was Italy.

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Speaker 2: It was and I think Italy did a lot of

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Speaker 2: work on defense and the lead up to that test

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Speaker 2: didn't do a lot on attack is my understanding around

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Speaker 2: some of their practice, and basically scrambled and defended I

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Speaker 2: thought very very well at times frustrated the All Blacks

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Speaker 2: around the right didn't allow them a lot of clean ball.

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Speaker 2: But I think what we saw from that All Blacks

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Speaker 2: selecting a relatively first choice team, the players looked tired.

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Speaker 2: It was they just looked like players that have played

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Speaker 2: three big tests in a row. And traditionally, as you said,

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Speaker 2: when you go on these tours, you have a bit

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Speaker 2: of a plan around which players are going to play

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Speaker 2: which tests, and obviously injuries come in and can change it.

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Speaker 2: But they did look like a tired team. They look

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Speaker 2: like a team that could use a break, that could

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Speaker 2: use a summer break, that had been playing all the

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Speaker 2: way back since February for Super Rugby so and in

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Speaker 2: some cases you know japan players Ardie and Bowden barrett

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Speaker 2: I been playing since December, so I think there was

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Speaker 2: a bit of a lesson there for Scott Robertson and

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Speaker 2: that you just can't play these players week in week out,

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Speaker 2: especially when you have the big three matches on the

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Speaker 2: tour without wanting to be disrespectful to Japan or Italy.

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Speaker 2: It was always set up to be England, Ireland and

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Speaker 2: France as the middle three weeks. Those are the big

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Speaker 2: matches and there are a precious few opportunities to learn

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Speaker 2: about players in a test rugby environment. And you look

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Speaker 2: at next year, okay, second stringth French teams luckly to

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Speaker 2: come Rugby Championship, then a Grand Slam Tour, certainly not

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Speaker 2: many opportunities on the face of it next year, maybe

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Speaker 2: against Wales potentially at the end of the year, but

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Speaker 2: very few opportunities to learn without wanting to disrespect Italy.

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Speaker 2: This was a chance, I think, to not only bring

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Speaker 2: in some new players and get some fresh blood in

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Speaker 2: there and learn about these players while balancing a performance imperative,

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Speaker 2: but also give some of these players that are been

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Speaker 2: playing three consecutive weeks, you know, a bit of a

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Speaker 2: breather and you know, whilst the TD I've been playing

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Speaker 2: is there was his fifth straight test, fifth country, five weeks,

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Speaker 2: five tests. So I think it was a bit of

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Speaker 2: lesson there for Scott Robinson and the All Blacks coaching

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Speaker 2: stuff that you can't just flog these players into the

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Speaker 2: ground week after week.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, massively, and all conventional wisdom tells you an international

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Speaker 4: rugby in particular that you can't play. You think about

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Speaker 4: a World Cup context. Everyone talks about having to play

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Speaker 4: three knockout matches in a row and how that's extremely taxing. Now,

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Speaker 4: while the Northern Tours not the World Cup, the All

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Speaker 4: Blacks played England, Island and France in fifteen days. I

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Speaker 4: think it was huge ask to do that from a

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Speaker 4: physicality point of view, from a mental toll, you're traveling

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Speaker 4: admittedly not large distances, but you have come from Japan.

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Speaker 4: All those things have a cumulative effect. The match was

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Speaker 4: England to Ireland was a six day turnaround, and yeah,

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Speaker 4: you've got players like Wallace a tit adjusting to the

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Speaker 4: international stage. So it was a faux pas from the

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Speaker 4: All Blacks to not recognize the fatigue and and a

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Speaker 4: missed opportunity, Like you say to not give those players

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Speaker 4: opportunities because they don't come around every day. And if

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Speaker 4: you're on tour, if you're a guy like Stephen Peter

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Speaker 4: Fetter and you've played one game against Japan, what sort

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Speaker 4: of encouragement does that give you for the following year

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Speaker 4: when you've been waiting to have some form of exposure

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Speaker 4: to You only learn through doing through game time. So

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Speaker 4: a big faux pas, I think from the All Blacks

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Speaker 4: from a selection perspective, A because they didn't get the performance,

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Speaker 4: but B because there was a common theme I think

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Speaker 4: with being overly conservative. And I guess we'll come to

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Speaker 4: that when we look at the overall complexion of the season.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's look at the tour overall. I think you

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Speaker 2: have to in my mind, I think you regard it

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Speaker 2: as a success. Two wins over England and Ireland at

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Speaker 2: one point lost to France. It could have gone the

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Speaker 2: other way but for our Georgian friend having some interesting interpretations.

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Speaker 2: Whether they would have won it another matter entirely, but

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Speaker 2: certainly the refereeing didn't help in that test. Then a

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Speaker 2: poor performance against it lead How would you classify the

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Speaker 2: end of Year tour Abortion of the All Black Season.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was a success definitely. If you

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Speaker 4: take a step back and think about where the All

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Speaker 4: Blacks were going into that tour, you and I expected

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Speaker 4: predicted they would lose one test, and for me that

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Speaker 4: was actually hugely optimistic. I went away thinking, actually, maybe

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Speaker 4: I should have said two losses, because that was more

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Speaker 4: realistic in my mind at the time. The one over

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Speaker 4: Islands was hugely significant. I think there is a bit

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Speaker 4: of context in that that the All Black's got them cold,

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Speaker 4: but I think we saw throughout November that maybe Islands stagnating, declining,

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Speaker 4: So the All Blacks deserve that victory. The one over England.

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Speaker 4: It's never easy to win at Twickenham and France. They

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Speaker 4: should have won that so that they were one point

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Speaker 4: away from an unbeaten Northern Tour. And I know just

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Speaker 4: from listening to some of the players and Scott Robinson

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Speaker 4: that he built the theme of that tour around trying

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Speaker 4: to replicate the Invincibles, you know, it's like with the

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Speaker 4: the themes, and they were very close and I think

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Speaker 4: they largely exceeded expectations. But the book nding that tour

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Speaker 4: with that performance against Italy does leave you a few

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Speaker 4: rocks under the beach towels, or it wasn't the lasting

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Speaker 4: impression that the All Blacks wanted to leave.

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Speaker 2: It's always the last test of the year. Let's leave

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Speaker 2: aside World Cup years because that is obvious that that

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Speaker 2: is always going to leave aside a different feeling. But

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Speaker 2: you think back twenty twenty two the drawer against England,

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Speaker 2: Wich should have been a comfortable victory at Twickenham twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one, the lost to France to end the year

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty was a different years, so.

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Speaker 3: Let's leave that aside.

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Speaker 2: But it's always that last performance and you think all

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Speaker 2: the way back to twenty twelve when they were beaten

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Speaker 2: by England comfortably at Tweklom. I think it was thirty

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Speaker 2: eight to twenty one. Off the top of my head.

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Speaker 2: It's that last performance of the year which is the

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Speaker 2: calling card, the signature moment that people remember as they

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Speaker 2: go into summer.

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Speaker 4: What shapes the narrative of the season. I guess what

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Speaker 4: it all so says is probably from physically we've touched on,

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Speaker 4: but mentally it is really tough when you can see

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Speaker 4: the finish line, when you know you're going to fly home.

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Speaker 4: Maybe you've mentally got one foot on the plane. You're

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Speaker 4: thinking about seeing your family, or getting home, getting some sun,

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Speaker 4: taking the boots off, whatever it may be. But anytime,

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Speaker 4: even outside of a sporting context, when the finish line

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Speaker 4: is in sight, it can be really hard to just

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Speaker 4: get there. It's within touching distance. So those results speak

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Speaker 4: to that, don't they. This was a fourteen test season

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Speaker 4: for the All Blacks, nine tests away from home. It

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Speaker 4: was a brutally tough campaign, two tests in the Republic

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Speaker 4: and a new group.

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Speaker 5: So look, the end of your.

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Speaker 4: Tour was a success, but that the last performance does

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Speaker 4: shape the narrative.

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Speaker 2: Before we get into some awards, Liam, i'mlet's throw something

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Speaker 2: at you. Are the All Blacks in a better spot

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Speaker 2: at the end of this year than they were at

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Speaker 2: the end of last year?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, you're not comparing apples with apples because

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Speaker 4: those players, you know, the centurions moving on. Is that

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Speaker 4: a lot of those guys that are replaceable Brodierrotelic, Sam White, Locke,

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Speaker 4: Aaron Smith, generational players, right, And I think that coaching

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Speaker 4: team at the back end of last year had got

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Speaker 4: the All Blacks to a very strong position, and we

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Speaker 4: saw that they probably should have won the World Cup.

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Speaker 4: What I would say about this All Black team is

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Speaker 4: they did have a roller coaster year, but they have

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Speaker 4: really unearthed some potential generational players as well. And my

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Speaker 4: frustration is some of those guys weren't promoted early enough

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Speaker 4: or enough throughout the year. But there's a lot more

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Speaker 4: growth in this team. If you had to pin me

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Speaker 4: down to an answer, I would say, no, you well.

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Speaker 3: Those points you raise are very valid. I think they haven't.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at it at the start

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Speaker 2: of the year, middle of the year, there wasn't a

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Speaker 2: lot of confidence that this team could go north and

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Speaker 2: only lose one game. You know, we talked about it

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Speaker 2: that maybe losing two was a real possibility. So I

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Speaker 2: think maybe not year or year, but certainly from the

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Speaker 2: middle point of the year, after they're loss to Argentina

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Speaker 2: and South Africa was a three straight games, I think

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Speaker 2: they lost at that point that middling performance in Sydney

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Speaker 2: was very good first half Paul second half. To come

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Speaker 2: out of that, I think and ascend towards the end

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Speaker 2: of the year. I think they're in a better spot

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Speaker 2: than they were middle a year but I don't know

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Speaker 2: about you, and you'm going to take the was it

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Speaker 2: played the fifth on that one? Vince that that's the word. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess you look at a selection point of view

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Speaker 2: before dig into those awards. Probably conservatism is that the

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Speaker 2: overall arching theme of the year from the or bakes.

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Speaker 2: In some ways that's good because I think they've given

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Speaker 2: We've debated this on the our podcast before about around

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Speaker 2: Sam came. I think he was the best player in

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Speaker 2: the position until he leaves that's his jersey. But I

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Speaker 2: would have liked to see more of Billy Proctor this year.

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Speaker 2: Obviously left the two early for the birth of his child,

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Speaker 2: so we didn't see him. Whether we would have seen

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Speaker 2: him against Italy on this team that was selected, probably

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Speaker 2: not so. I think it took a while, but there

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Speaker 2: were signs there that he began to find a little

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Speaker 2: bit more about players, but probably goes back to that

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Speaker 2: Italy point, just a little bit too much conservatism around

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Speaker 2: the overall selection of the other team.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think what we saw from Raza was he

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Speaker 4: felt the weight of expectation. There is a massive difference

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Speaker 4: between Super Rugby and the All Blacks, and I think

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Speaker 4: the burden of history, of the legacy of the National

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Speaker 4: spotlight weighed on him heavily and we saw that that

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Speaker 4: was born out in his selections. The vast majority of

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Speaker 4: the development came this year.

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Speaker 5: It was forced.

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Speaker 4: Wallace the Tt only got his chance in South Africa

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Speaker 4: because of an injury to Dalton Papale.

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Speaker 2: Yeah and Ethan blackhad was injured for that second Test,

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Speaker 2: and Captain.

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Speaker 4: Peter Luckeye doesn't play probably for the All Blacks on

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Speaker 4: the Northern Tour if Dalton papal Ly, Luke Jacobson and

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Speaker 4: Ethan Blackheader don't are if they're not injured. He doesn't

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Speaker 4: play seventy eight minutes off the bench against Ireland. Al

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Speaker 4: Moor doesn't get the time that he does against England

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Speaker 4: and Ireland if Cody Taylor's not injured. Cortez Ratsma's one

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Speaker 4: guy that they did promote and Tupu Vai was a

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Speaker 4: great success. But then you look at someone like Severy Reese.

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Speaker 4: The faith and loyalty was retained in him far too

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Speaker 4: long and so they got that call roll largely for

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Speaker 4: the bulk of the season, with Mark Talia coming through

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Speaker 4: at the back end of the year. Billy Procter, another

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Speaker 4: you mentioned they're not used throughout the whole Rugby Championship,

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Speaker 4: but that's just a did set shocker. He was one

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Speaker 4: of the four midfielders in Super Rugby. The Puma's loss

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Speaker 4: in Wellington really shell shock Bill Blacks. I think they

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Speaker 4: had targeted the second Test at Eden Park as a

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Speaker 4: chance to bring some of those goes through. But when

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Speaker 4: they lost that game, they battened down the hatches and

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Speaker 4: it became all about winning. And yes, you have to

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Speaker 4: win Test rugby, but you also have to develop players

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Speaker 4: and you can't do that through not playing guys. And

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Speaker 4: I think there was even that game and Wellington. You know,

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Speaker 4: when did Scott Robinson become so sentimental with starting you

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Speaker 4: know TJ. Peternara in that Test and Wellington when courses

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Speaker 4: lastma had played so well the week before. Some of

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Speaker 4: those selections I struggled with. Yeah, I just feel like

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Speaker 4: a lot of those guys needed to be promoted. Stephen

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Speaker 4: Peter Fetzer was another. Why didn't he get at least

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Speaker 4: one Test at ten? You know he's sitting back now

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Speaker 4: thinking well, where am I in the pecking order. I

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Speaker 4: would not be surprised in any way, shape or form

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Speaker 4: if he leaves for Japan in the near future. He

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Speaker 4: hasn't been nurtured, hasn't been given an opportunity. Looking at

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Speaker 4: getting Richie back, you go further down the pecking order.

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Speaker 4: We've already seen it with Harry Plummer that scenario. So

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Speaker 4: if you don't give these guys the opportunities, if you

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Speaker 4: don't nurture them, if you don't develop them, they're going

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Speaker 4: to leave. So the overarching theme for me from this

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Speaker 4: All Black coaching team was conservatism when it came to selection,

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Speaker 4: and I think that was just the difference the weight

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Speaker 4: of expectation when it came to results.

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Speaker 2: Let's move on to some of the awards for the

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Speaker 2: season that we've conjured up. That leads us nicely into

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Speaker 2: a best selection, worse selection. Liam your thoughts and feelings

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Speaker 2: on the best selection for the All Blacks this year

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Speaker 2: and the worst one?

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Speaker 4: Well, the best, as I mentioned it was forced. But

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Speaker 4: Wallace the TC, you know what a absolute revelation he's

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Speaker 4: been coming and starting against the box and Cape Town.

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Speaker 4: Just his all roundability, isn't it. It's his footwork at

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Speaker 4: the line, his destructive ball carrying. I think it's got

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Speaker 4: a bit of work to do on his defense and

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Speaker 4: patience to a degree to you know, throwing a wild

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Speaker 4: offload where maybe he should go down, but sometimes that

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Speaker 4: sticks and he's a superstar.

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Speaker 5: It's a fine line.

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Speaker 4: So whether he played blindside or number eight, he's the

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Speaker 4: future of the All Blacks loose forward so best and

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Speaker 4: this will come as no shock to you, the worst

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Speaker 4: Chaffey Harkeey mate.

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Speaker 3: Wow was he selected?

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Speaker 5: He was in the squad.

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Speaker 3: I can't have a crack at Schaefe mate.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go best selection. Agree with you on

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Speaker 2: was so Tisi? Yeah, I mean hard to go past him,

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Speaker 2: isn't it the impact that he's had in the year.

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Speaker 2: We went talking about him at the start of the

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Speaker 2: year on Rugby Derick as a Chiefs play a little alone,

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Speaker 2: you know, the way that he's come on to the team.

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Speaker 2: So I agree with that. Look. Phinlay Christie is probably

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Speaker 2: the worst selection. It felt like time to move on

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Speaker 2: around the half backs and Ken Roygard was injured, but

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Speaker 2: they clung on to him for a little bit and

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Speaker 2: then cut the rope after that England series. I get

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Speaker 2: they wanted experience, but it just felt like time had

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Speaker 2: moved on a little bit from Finlay Christie I think

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Speaker 2: he did a good job under Ian Foster.

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Speaker 3: He has played very well for the Blues.

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Speaker 2: But in terms of international rugby, I think the jury's

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Speaker 2: always been out on Finlay, so I think they kept

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Speaker 2: him and then probably kept him on a little bit

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Speaker 2: too long for that England series once had found Nola

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Speaker 2: Hotham and we're comfortable with that.

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Speaker 3: That was the end of that. Best performance, worst performance

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Speaker 3: of the year.

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Speaker 4: Best performance is Ireland because of the way they finished

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Speaker 4: that game and throughout this year the Rugby Championship five

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Speaker 4: final quarter fades and France as well. Second half performance

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Speaker 4: you mentioned obviously the Georgian referee and other circumstances. The

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Speaker 4: TMO coming in and didn't help the All Blacks, but

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Speaker 4: their second half was infinitely worse. They didn't control the

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Speaker 4: pace in tempo, they made a number of different eras

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Speaker 4: against front so the back end the matches has been

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Speaker 4: a big issue for the All Blacks and they flipped

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Speaker 4: that script against Island. The bench came on, made a

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Speaker 4: massive impact and they've finished over the top of Ireland,

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Speaker 4: scoring late, winning by ten points. So and that was

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Speaker 4: their biggest scalp of the year. Worst performance probably the

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Speaker 4: Pumas and Wellington. There was real panic in the ranks.

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Speaker 4: You think about that double pass where they'd lost forty

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Speaker 4: meters under their own goal line. We're just like, what

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Speaker 4: the hell is going on here? Is this the All Blacks?

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Speaker 4: There is this under fives rugby that you don't see

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Speaker 4: those sort of basic eras from the All Blacks.

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Speaker 5: So there was real panic.

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Speaker 4: It seemed like there was a lack of leadership, lack

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Speaker 4: of composure, and it was it was hard to unravel

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Speaker 4: what was unfolding before your eyes. I think the worst

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Speaker 4: loss for me was was France in Paris, because the

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Speaker 4: All Blacks were the better team, but the worst performance

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Speaker 4: was the Pumas.

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Speaker 2: I agree on the Pumas almost slightly different and so

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Speaker 2: the worst performance was that last forty minutes against Australia

358
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Speaker 2: in Sydney, because it was atrociously bad. I mean it

359
00:19:27,413 --> 00:19:30,853
Speaker 2: was everything that could go wrong was possibly going wrong

360
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Speaker 2: in that game that they were on track at one

361
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Speaker 2: point to blitz them by sixty. Really they started that

362
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Speaker 2: game so strongly and then just completely looked like a

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Speaker 2: different team after halftime. So worst performance is that forty

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Speaker 2: minutes against Australia. Best performance after grew with Island I

365
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Speaker 2: was going to go trying to go somewhere different and

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Speaker 2: try and be a little bit cute about my answer here.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say the first seventy minutes at

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Speaker 2: Alice Park all the first forty minutes that start to France.

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Speaker 2: But that probably paints a bit of a picture, isn't

370
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Speaker 2: it that the All Blacks this year have been a

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Speaker 2: team of halves, a team of moments, a team of

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Speaker 2: passages of play, but not a team of eighty minutes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, consistently inconsistent. Just on that Sydney performance, the All

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Speaker 4: Blacks had fourteen yellow cards in their last ten tests

375
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Speaker 4: and so that's one major area that proved costly this year.

376
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Speaker 2: They started very strongly on that front and it got

377
00:20:22,733 --> 00:20:25,133
Speaker 2: worse and worse and worse the year went on. So

378
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Speaker 2: that's something they need to look at heading into next year,

379
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Speaker 2: is the discipline and how far that line goes. Player

380
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Speaker 2: of the Year one back, one forward, please limb.

381
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Speaker 4: I'm going to go to Pouvai for four of the year.

382
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Speaker 4: If you go back to the start of this year,

383
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Speaker 4: Sam White, Locke, Brody Rittelic gone, Scott Barrett, miss chunks

384
00:20:48,733 --> 00:20:51,373
Speaker 4: of this year through Andrew Patrick Tupolo to the same.

385
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Speaker 4: If there was one area Scott Robinson was sitting up

386
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Speaker 4: at night in a cold sweat, it was Locke and

387
00:20:58,013 --> 00:21:02,253
Speaker 4: Tupuv had done a four year apprenticeship behind those guys,

388
00:21:02,333 --> 00:21:05,893
Speaker 4: not really proven himself because he hadn't had the opportunities.

389
00:21:05,893 --> 00:21:09,493
Speaker 4: He played blindside a wee but played lock. But this

390
00:21:09,693 --> 00:21:13,973
Speaker 4: was his year and he seized it big time against

391
00:21:14,093 --> 00:21:16,893
Speaker 4: and big Test too again against the box in South

392
00:21:16,933 --> 00:21:21,893
Speaker 4: Africa Ireland England became a real presence at the line

393
00:21:21,893 --> 00:21:26,453
Speaker 4: out over the ball as well, very mobile, so he

394
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Speaker 4: was a big mover for me in the forward pack

395
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Speaker 4: and in the back line. This is much tougher because

396
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Speaker 4: Dealix took a long time to find a lot of

397
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Speaker 4: their selections and there was a lot of change. I'm

398
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Speaker 4: going to probably say someone like.

399
00:21:49,293 --> 00:21:50,293
Speaker 3: Here we go, here we go.

400
00:21:53,013 --> 00:21:55,413
Speaker 4: Well, Jordan, I think by the back end of this

401
00:21:55,493 --> 00:21:57,533
Speaker 4: year he was a big mover. He's been waiting a

402
00:21:57,533 --> 00:22:02,893
Speaker 4: long time for that fifteen role. Wasn't perfect, had a

403
00:22:02,933 --> 00:22:06,853
Speaker 4: tough introduction coming back from shoulder injury. Was really scratchy.

404
00:22:06,853 --> 00:22:10,133
Speaker 4: In his first Test at fullback this year in Cape Town,

405
00:22:10,893 --> 00:22:13,333
Speaker 4: had it under the bar Ja hyball with the box

406
00:22:13,413 --> 00:22:16,773
Speaker 4: but I just think he brings a real different attacking

407
00:22:16,853 --> 00:22:20,093
Speaker 4: dimension and he is a more traditional fullback than what

408
00:22:20,133 --> 00:22:22,733
Speaker 4: the All Blacks have used in the last World Cup cycle.

409
00:22:22,773 --> 00:22:25,093
Speaker 4: When you think about Boden Barrett, who was probably more

410
00:22:25,093 --> 00:22:27,813
Speaker 4: a kick first fullback, where Will Jordan's very much run

411
00:22:27,853 --> 00:22:30,733
Speaker 4: first and he's a real attacking weapon. I think he's

412
00:22:30,733 --> 00:22:34,333
Speaker 4: got thirty eight trials and forty one tests just unreal

413
00:22:34,373 --> 00:22:34,933
Speaker 4: strike great.

414
00:22:35,013 --> 00:22:37,253
Speaker 5: So I'll go of Jordan my.

415
00:22:37,333 --> 00:22:40,013
Speaker 2: Forward of the year. I'm going to a Wallace to

416
00:22:40,053 --> 00:22:43,653
Speaker 2: TZ look tossed up between two Bovin and Wallace to TV.

417
00:22:43,733 --> 00:22:46,133
Speaker 2: In fact, you could throw Troll Omex in there as well.

418
00:22:46,173 --> 00:22:49,933
Speaker 2: Maybe Cody Taylor if he'm playing against Ireland one of

419
00:22:49,933 --> 00:22:52,653
Speaker 2: those big tests he missed obviously through the head knock

420
00:22:52,853 --> 00:22:53,933
Speaker 2: in England as well.

421
00:22:54,053 --> 00:22:56,213
Speaker 5: Tyro in particular, absolute rock Well.

422
00:22:56,173 --> 00:22:58,493
Speaker 2: The first choice, probably the best in the world actually

423
00:22:58,493 --> 00:23:00,613
Speaker 2: in his position. He's got to that point. So I'm

424
00:23:00,613 --> 00:23:02,253
Speaker 2: going to Wallace to TV just for the impact he

425
00:23:02,293 --> 00:23:05,333
Speaker 2: made to that All Blacks team from as we touched

426
00:23:05,373 --> 00:23:09,533
Speaker 2: on before, from nowhere to being a bolted on first

427
00:23:09,613 --> 00:23:11,853
Speaker 2: choice player by the end of the season. I'm giving

428
00:23:11,853 --> 00:23:15,653
Speaker 2: it to Wallace to Titi so I'm locking him as

429
00:23:15,693 --> 00:23:18,053
Speaker 2: my forward back is a tough choice.

430
00:23:18,173 --> 00:23:19,373
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get Caleb Clark.

431
00:23:19,693 --> 00:23:22,293
Speaker 2: Yeah, good shot, because you think aback the last year

432
00:23:22,293 --> 00:23:24,813
Speaker 2: at the World Cup, he didn't get a lot of opportunities.

433
00:23:24,853 --> 00:23:26,573
Speaker 2: He was pretty much out of it. He was in

434
00:23:26,573 --> 00:23:28,493
Speaker 2: the squad, but it's pretty much not in the first

435
00:23:28,573 --> 00:23:30,373
Speaker 2: choice twenty three, or if he was, he was breeding

436
00:23:30,413 --> 00:23:34,053
Speaker 2: twenty three. This year he had a very good Super

437
00:23:34,093 --> 00:23:37,333
Speaker 2: Rugby season hat trick in the final and then built himself,

438
00:23:37,373 --> 00:23:39,573
Speaker 2: I thought, into clearly the first choice left winger in

439
00:23:39,573 --> 00:23:41,693
Speaker 2: the All Blacks once again. So for a player that

440
00:23:41,813 --> 00:23:44,773
Speaker 2: burst onto the scene in twenty twenty probably had an

441
00:23:44,813 --> 00:23:47,453
Speaker 2: ill fated and a trip to the sevens and twenty

442
00:23:47,493 --> 00:23:49,293
Speaker 2: one that maybe you want to take back and injuries

443
00:23:49,293 --> 00:23:51,413
Speaker 2: and things like that, I think Caleb Clark gets my.

444
00:23:51,413 --> 00:23:52,573
Speaker 3: Vote for the Back of the Year.

445
00:23:52,813 --> 00:23:55,293
Speaker 4: So just on that though, you rattled off a number

446
00:23:55,333 --> 00:23:57,453
Speaker 4: of names in the forward pack, which I agree with,

447
00:23:57,493 --> 00:23:59,653
Speaker 4: and the backlune we're both struggling, which says a lot.

448
00:23:59,693 --> 00:24:01,893
Speaker 4: I think about the All Blacks attack yep. And the

449
00:24:01,933 --> 00:24:03,733
Speaker 4: performance of the back line as a whole.

450
00:24:03,533 --> 00:24:05,213
Speaker 2: Well, I think yeah, And you did a piece on

451
00:24:05,253 --> 00:24:07,653
Speaker 2: this we'll get into a prediction fortween twenty five shortly,

452
00:24:07,693 --> 00:24:09,773
Speaker 2: but I think that the issue going twenty twenty f

453
00:24:09,813 --> 00:24:12,293
Speaker 2: what is the best nine through fifteen And also the

454
00:24:12,293 --> 00:24:16,053
Speaker 2: bench make up for the All Blacks. I think in

455
00:24:16,133 --> 00:24:17,493
Speaker 2: a weird way, they've got the best players in the

456
00:24:17,493 --> 00:24:20,973
Speaker 2: positions in the country in those juerseys, but that doesn't

457
00:24:20,973 --> 00:24:22,853
Speaker 2: necessarily mean the the best players for the All Blacks

458
00:24:22,893 --> 00:24:26,653
Speaker 2: back line. And you look at that Jordi Barrett, Rico

459
00:24:26,693 --> 00:24:29,813
Speaker 2: you won in midfield. Both exceptional players. But I don't

460
00:24:29,813 --> 00:24:31,653
Speaker 2: know that All Blacks are getting enough out of midfield

461
00:24:31,773 --> 00:24:35,893
Speaker 2: at the moment in terms of their attack. Ten Boden

462
00:24:35,933 --> 00:24:38,213
Speaker 2: Barrett came in there later in the season. I thought

463
00:24:38,213 --> 00:24:41,733
Speaker 2: he was assured and pretty good in those performances. I

464
00:24:41,853 --> 00:24:45,653
Speaker 2: like Damian McKenzie coming off the bench. I think that's

465
00:24:45,693 --> 00:24:48,133
Speaker 2: the position that I would have him in. Boden Barretts

466
00:24:48,173 --> 00:24:49,253
Speaker 2: will come off the bench at the start of the

467
00:24:49,333 --> 00:24:51,013
Speaker 2: year and perform very very well. Those are kind of

468
00:24:51,053 --> 00:24:55,173
Speaker 2: impact players. But the back line I think is the

469
00:24:55,173 --> 00:24:57,093
Speaker 2: big work on for the All Blacks going into twenty

470
00:24:57,133 --> 00:24:57,613
Speaker 2: twenty five.

471
00:24:58,293 --> 00:25:00,573
Speaker 4: Yeah, at its big time, And I agree with you

472
00:25:00,573 --> 00:25:03,413
Speaker 4: about the midfield. I don't think it was Jordie's greatest year.

473
00:25:03,813 --> 00:25:06,253
Speaker 4: I don't know if they're using Rico and the best

474
00:25:06,293 --> 00:25:11,413
Speaker 4: way he Rico is hugely or a. He's polarizing and

475
00:25:11,933 --> 00:25:14,693
Speaker 4: I don't think people are seeing enough from him on attack,

476
00:25:15,373 --> 00:25:18,933
Speaker 4: but he is an absolute rock on defense and he

477
00:25:19,013 --> 00:25:22,813
Speaker 4: was huge in that Irish tests Wyin shut down Bundy

478
00:25:22,853 --> 00:25:25,853
Speaker 4: a key forced him into a number of different eras.

479
00:25:27,173 --> 00:25:29,693
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's huge on attack, He's sorry huge on defense.

480
00:25:29,853 --> 00:25:32,693
Speaker 2: He is probably the best defensive center in the world.

481
00:25:32,693 --> 00:25:36,413
Speaker 4: But they were using him a lot. Hardball carries short

482
00:25:36,453 --> 00:25:38,333
Speaker 4: balls at the line into content and there was a

483
00:25:38,373 --> 00:25:41,133
Speaker 4: lot of lost position in that way. So I think

484
00:25:41,373 --> 00:25:47,573
Speaker 4: the midfield does needs just give some people an opportunity.

485
00:25:47,693 --> 00:25:51,053
Speaker 4: We mentioned Billy Proctor aj Lamb. I think you know

486
00:25:51,453 --> 00:25:55,533
Speaker 4: there's others around. So if I looked at the All

487
00:25:55,533 --> 00:25:57,893
Speaker 4: Blacks back line as a whole, you'd say camera regards

488
00:25:57,893 --> 00:26:01,853
Speaker 4: locked at halfback on form currently Caleb Clark and Mark

489
00:26:01,893 --> 00:26:04,533
Speaker 4: Dala on the wings and Will Jordan at fullback, and

490
00:26:04,573 --> 00:26:07,013
Speaker 4: you would say that the midfield is largely set. But

491
00:26:07,053 --> 00:26:09,653
Speaker 4: I would like to see a bit of experimentation there

492
00:26:10,293 --> 00:26:14,773
Speaker 4: and I think longer term it's proven that other wingers

493
00:26:14,773 --> 00:26:18,493
Speaker 4: will emerge as well. That they the All Blacks tend

494
00:26:18,573 --> 00:26:21,293
Speaker 4: to pick on form and World Cup years struck while

495
00:26:21,253 --> 00:26:24,173
Speaker 4: they Ron's hot with wingers. That that's how it tends

496
00:26:24,253 --> 00:26:26,453
Speaker 4: to happen. Tends a bit of a state of flux.

497
00:26:26,493 --> 00:26:30,893
Speaker 4: So yeah, the back line is the real interesting touch

498
00:26:30,893 --> 00:26:34,053
Speaker 4: point for next year. They need more from the All Black.

499
00:26:34,133 --> 00:26:39,853
Speaker 4: We need to see more continuity, strike plays, attacking punch

500
00:26:39,893 --> 00:26:40,813
Speaker 4: from the All Blacks.

501
00:26:40,533 --> 00:26:41,493
Speaker 3: Don't we do.

502
00:26:41,973 --> 00:26:43,853
Speaker 2: I think that is that the major work on heading

503
00:26:43,853 --> 00:26:46,733
Speaker 2: into the year. Let's give us a rating for the

504
00:26:46,773 --> 00:26:49,333
Speaker 2: All Blacks out of ten for the season or a

505
00:26:49,373 --> 00:26:50,733
Speaker 2: great which everyone you prefer.

506
00:26:51,133 --> 00:26:53,853
Speaker 4: I'm going to go C plus. Did that for the

507
00:26:53,853 --> 00:26:57,453
Speaker 4: written piece and I'm happy with it. I think it's

508
00:26:57,453 --> 00:27:00,813
Speaker 4: a patchy pass. If you look at the context of

509
00:27:00,813 --> 00:27:05,373
Speaker 4: the year, you know they started, I think take a

510
00:27:05,413 --> 00:27:05,973
Speaker 4: step back.

511
00:27:06,493 --> 00:27:09,893
Speaker 5: This was the biggest.

512
00:27:09,573 --> 00:27:12,453
Speaker 4: Coaching management change for the All Blacks in twenty years

513
00:27:12,853 --> 00:27:15,093
Speaker 4: and that is significant. It is going to take time,

514
00:27:15,693 --> 00:27:20,773
Speaker 4: but there was errors made. Leo McDonald came and went

515
00:27:21,533 --> 00:27:24,973
Speaker 4: very abruptly five tests into the year. That's a black

516
00:27:25,053 --> 00:27:29,093
Speaker 4: mark on the season. A costly payouts for.

517
00:27:29,453 --> 00:27:30,653
Speaker 5: Leon to go.

518
00:27:31,133 --> 00:27:34,133
Speaker 4: He was signed for four years paid out for two

519
00:27:36,293 --> 00:27:38,613
Speaker 4: So the All Black start the year patchy, trying to

520
00:27:38,933 --> 00:27:43,213
Speaker 4: integrate all these changes with England the Raby Championships fifty percent,

521
00:27:43,493 --> 00:27:46,813
Speaker 4: they lose the Freedom Cup for the first time since

522
00:27:47,173 --> 00:27:49,893
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine and the Rabby Championship for the

523
00:27:49,893 --> 00:27:51,413
Speaker 4: first time in five years as well.

524
00:27:51,893 --> 00:27:52,853
Speaker 5: Context as well.

525
00:27:52,973 --> 00:27:54,773
Speaker 4: You know, the Springboks are the best team in the

526
00:27:54,773 --> 00:27:58,133
Speaker 4: world and quite far ahead of everyone else at the moment,

527
00:27:58,133 --> 00:28:00,813
Speaker 4: and you go into their backyard, the All Blacks could

528
00:28:00,893 --> 00:28:02,373
Speaker 4: wold have should have won that and then they have

529
00:28:02,413 --> 00:28:03,733
Speaker 4: a successful end of year tour.

530
00:28:03,853 --> 00:28:06,213
Speaker 5: So for me, it's a patchy pass.

531
00:28:06,293 --> 00:28:11,333
Speaker 4: We've talked about the selections, inconsistencies within games, the promise

532
00:28:11,453 --> 00:28:16,093
Speaker 4: of emerging talents, and this coaching team hopefully getting better,

533
00:28:17,093 --> 00:28:19,093
Speaker 4: but I want to see more.

534
00:28:19,613 --> 00:28:21,293
Speaker 2: I'm going to be minus just on the basis that

535
00:28:21,333 --> 00:28:23,973
Speaker 2: interviewed too, because it could have you know, if they've

536
00:28:24,013 --> 00:28:26,453
Speaker 2: lost twice then there's some serious questions and there are

537
00:28:26,493 --> 00:28:29,053
Speaker 2: serious questions, but it could have been some serious questions

538
00:28:29,093 --> 00:28:31,213
Speaker 2: heading into the off season around the direction of this team.

539
00:28:31,533 --> 00:28:33,213
Speaker 2: But the fact that they beat England and I lost

540
00:28:33,253 --> 00:28:35,973
Speaker 2: by one point just elevates them above a you know,

541
00:28:36,133 --> 00:28:38,333
Speaker 2: seas to get degrees, but be minus for me at

542
00:28:38,333 --> 00:28:38,853
Speaker 2: the end of the year.

543
00:28:39,053 --> 00:28:43,413
Speaker 4: Okay, And so what about Razor, Let's give him a mark.

544
00:28:43,533 --> 00:28:45,533
Speaker 4: It's his first year. He's come off the back of

545
00:28:45,613 --> 00:28:49,133
Speaker 4: seven titles for the Crusaders, stepped into the role he's

546
00:28:49,173 --> 00:28:51,773
Speaker 4: coveted for so long. I think he had nine months

547
00:28:51,813 --> 00:28:54,453
Speaker 4: to prepare for it. He was appointed, you know, prior

548
00:28:54,493 --> 00:28:56,893
Speaker 4: to the World Cup that was highly controversial, had all

549
00:28:56,933 --> 00:29:01,653
Speaker 4: that time to prepare his strategy team. But there's nothing

550
00:29:01,733 --> 00:29:02,813
Speaker 4: like being in the hot seat.

551
00:29:03,293 --> 00:29:03,933
Speaker 5: How did he go?

552
00:29:04,973 --> 00:29:07,053
Speaker 2: Look, I think he learned over the course of the

553
00:29:07,133 --> 00:29:11,213
Speaker 2: year things about Test rugby coaching wise. Obviously he's played it,

554
00:29:12,213 --> 00:29:13,653
Speaker 2: but the game has moved on a bit since he

555
00:29:13,693 --> 00:29:18,813
Speaker 2: played it. Obviously way different to Super rugby. The management

556
00:29:18,853 --> 00:29:22,253
Speaker 2: of players. You know, we touched on the Italy performance then,

557
00:29:22,413 --> 00:29:25,253
Speaker 2: but if that was Super rugby and it was say,

558
00:29:25,413 --> 00:29:32,493
Speaker 2: substitute Mowana Pacifica in that era for athlete, then Scott

559
00:29:32,573 --> 00:29:34,933
Speaker 2: Robinson's banking change that the Crusaders to keep his players fresh.

560
00:29:34,973 --> 00:29:38,533
Speaker 2: But because that pressure environment of Test rugby is so absolute,

561
00:29:39,493 --> 00:29:42,253
Speaker 2: he doesn't feel comfortable yet enough to trust the players

562
00:29:42,253 --> 00:29:45,933
Speaker 2: that he's got. So look, I think you look at

563
00:29:45,933 --> 00:29:47,933
Speaker 2: it and go could have been a bit more ruthless.

564
00:29:47,973 --> 00:29:49,893
Speaker 2: I mean I spoke to him after the game for

565
00:29:49,933 --> 00:29:53,493
Speaker 2: an interview at season review and he said similar lines.

566
00:29:53,493 --> 00:29:55,293
Speaker 2: Could he have been more ruthless or could he have

567
00:29:55,493 --> 00:29:57,653
Speaker 2: made those decisions? And that's something that keeps him up

568
00:29:57,653 --> 00:29:59,533
Speaker 2: at night. Got rid of Leo on McDonald when it

569
00:29:59,573 --> 00:30:01,493
Speaker 2: was clear it wasn't working. But I think you need

570
00:30:01,493 --> 00:30:05,133
Speaker 2: to probably impart more of that ruthlessness and inverted commas

571
00:30:05,133 --> 00:30:11,453
Speaker 2: into selections and team strategy. So probably give it a

572
00:30:11,493 --> 00:30:14,893
Speaker 2: similar All Blacks grade B plus be minus brother.

573
00:30:15,853 --> 00:30:17,893
Speaker 4: I'm going to give Razor a C. I think it

574
00:30:17,933 --> 00:30:20,933
Speaker 4: was a big, big learning year for him. I think

575
00:30:21,333 --> 00:30:23,853
Speaker 4: he will be better for the experience. But there were

576
00:30:23,893 --> 00:30:26,573
Speaker 4: a lot of challenges for him on the Leo McDonald front,

577
00:30:26,693 --> 00:30:29,253
Speaker 4: and there were potential inconsistencies as well. When you look

578
00:30:29,293 --> 00:30:33,453
Speaker 4: at Damian McKenzie missing the bus in San Diego and

579
00:30:33,573 --> 00:30:36,893
Speaker 4: not getting any punishment, Ethan de Groot breaks curfew in

580
00:30:37,013 --> 00:30:39,933
Speaker 4: Japan gets a one game punishment. Those are the things

581
00:30:39,933 --> 00:30:43,973
Speaker 4: that can create a bit of dissatisfaction within the team.

582
00:30:44,533 --> 00:30:47,133
Speaker 4: I think it's.

583
00:30:46,973 --> 00:30:49,373
Speaker 5: Tough any well.

584
00:30:50,253 --> 00:30:54,293
Speaker 4: Scott Barrets's captain, and that's not a new partnership, but

585
00:30:54,333 --> 00:30:56,653
Speaker 4: it is elevated to a whole other level. Coming into

586
00:30:56,693 --> 00:30:58,973
Speaker 4: the All Blacks, He's got a whole new coaching team,

587
00:30:59,053 --> 00:31:03,693
Speaker 4: so major challenges. But I think rightly or wrongly, there

588
00:31:03,733 --> 00:31:07,693
Speaker 4: were massive expectations on Razor and he hasn't met those yet.

589
00:31:08,093 --> 00:31:09,813
Speaker 5: But I'll give him a pass for this year.

590
00:31:10,093 --> 00:31:14,213
Speaker 2: Okay, let's move on to you had an all backs

591
00:31:14,213 --> 00:31:16,733
Speaker 2: boulterer for twenty twenty five that you wanted to throw

592
00:31:16,773 --> 00:31:17,053
Speaker 2: at me.

593
00:31:17,893 --> 00:31:20,053
Speaker 4: Yes, not going to be the one you thought. And

594
00:31:20,493 --> 00:31:23,293
Speaker 4: this is my This is not the way I would go.

595
00:31:23,453 --> 00:31:27,693
Speaker 4: But Shaffi Hockey Razor is big on experience, right. We've

596
00:31:27,733 --> 00:31:31,173
Speaker 4: seen that this year with Sam came and TJ. Peter Andara.

597
00:31:32,453 --> 00:31:37,333
Speaker 4: I can see them going back to Finlay Christie and

598
00:31:37,413 --> 00:31:39,413
Speaker 4: the half bat mix. I don't know if no Hopam

599
00:31:40,253 --> 00:31:43,413
Speaker 4: is going to be deemed ready, and with TJ. Peter

600
00:31:43,453 --> 00:31:45,253
Speaker 4: and A moving on, I feel like they're going to

601
00:31:45,333 --> 00:31:48,093
Speaker 4: want a safety blanket.

602
00:31:48,373 --> 00:31:49,773
Speaker 5: That's a bit of experience.

603
00:31:49,853 --> 00:31:52,173
Speaker 4: I know he hasn't played the same number of tests

604
00:31:52,253 --> 00:31:56,053
Speaker 4: as TJ. I would not be surprised to see Finlay

605
00:31:56,173 --> 00:31:58,613
Speaker 4: back in the mix next year. That's not the way

606
00:31:58,653 --> 00:32:01,013
Speaker 4: I would go but there's an all backs bowler, there's

607
00:32:01,013 --> 00:32:03,653
Speaker 4: a bolt. If there's a bolter for you in twenty

608
00:32:03,893 --> 00:32:05,133
Speaker 4: twenty five.

609
00:32:05,293 --> 00:32:06,973
Speaker 2: You look at that next look, I don't think Cortius

610
00:32:07,013 --> 00:32:10,013
Speaker 2: right my head. The greatest two tours, some of that

611
00:32:10,173 --> 00:32:13,613
Speaker 2: is own doing. Some of that I thought wasn't well protected.

612
00:32:13,653 --> 00:32:16,093
Speaker 2: That ruck didn't get a lot of clean ball. The

613
00:32:16,133 --> 00:32:18,533
Speaker 2: refereeing on that was a bit dubious at times. But

614
00:32:18,573 --> 00:32:21,173
Speaker 2: the All Blacks, we're giving me a lot of protection

615
00:32:21,253 --> 00:32:25,573
Speaker 2: around the ruck in those matches he started. I think

616
00:32:25,613 --> 00:32:27,373
Speaker 2: there is just yea, there is a question, no doubt

617
00:32:27,413 --> 00:32:29,813
Speaker 2: about half back. Can Roy guard clearly the best half

618
00:32:29,813 --> 00:32:32,613
Speaker 2: back in New Zealand at the moment. Cortez Ratama, we'll

619
00:32:32,613 --> 00:32:36,093
Speaker 2: get another Super Rugby season under his belt next year.

620
00:32:37,573 --> 00:32:40,053
Speaker 2: You look at the Hurricanes and roygad is going to

621
00:32:40,093 --> 00:32:42,013
Speaker 2: start a lot of that game time there. The Crusaders

622
00:32:42,053 --> 00:32:46,933
Speaker 2: have Mitch Strummond, Noah Hotham, Kyle Preston down the Highlanders.

623
00:32:47,173 --> 00:32:49,853
Speaker 2: You know, for Fakatava, how far far has he fallen

624
00:32:49,893 --> 00:32:50,373
Speaker 2: down the ranks?

625
00:32:50,413 --> 00:32:51,693
Speaker 5: I forgot man really isn't he?

626
00:32:52,013 --> 00:32:54,693
Speaker 2: And you know he was the next big thing two

627
00:32:54,733 --> 00:32:57,693
Speaker 2: or three years back and now he can can't make

628
00:32:57,693 --> 00:33:00,293
Speaker 2: the All Blacks fifteen selections, So I think there is

629
00:33:00,333 --> 00:33:04,373
Speaker 2: a question mark around half back next year. Maybe maybe

630
00:33:04,373 --> 00:33:06,893
Speaker 2: you're right, Maybe maybe he's back in the mix for

631
00:33:06,933 --> 00:33:07,373
Speaker 2: next year.

632
00:33:07,613 --> 00:33:07,973
Speaker 5: Could be.

633
00:33:08,693 --> 00:33:11,333
Speaker 4: I think there is a real discussion to be had

634
00:33:11,373 --> 00:33:15,493
Speaker 4: about who deputizes and how you get that max right,

635
00:33:15,533 --> 00:33:17,813
Speaker 4: because as you say, Cortez was very good early on

636
00:33:17,853 --> 00:33:20,133
Speaker 4: there when he was starting, but coming off the bench

637
00:33:20,933 --> 00:33:24,773
Speaker 4: just exposed up north with that rut pressure.

638
00:33:25,413 --> 00:33:27,093
Speaker 5: Yeah, so who's your bolter?

639
00:33:27,573 --> 00:33:30,773
Speaker 2: Well, Olie Mathis is the player that I would look

640
00:33:30,773 --> 00:33:32,973
Speaker 2: at for the All Blacks Now. He's off playing sevens

641
00:33:33,053 --> 00:33:35,733
Speaker 2: at the moment, whether that's his choice of whether that's

642
00:33:35,733 --> 00:33:38,493
Speaker 2: a New Zealand Rocky Pathway selection or what so. He

643
00:33:38,893 --> 00:33:41,013
Speaker 2: probably not going to be playing superbar injuries or something

644
00:33:41,053 --> 00:33:42,733
Speaker 2: like that, but I'd be looking to him. Look, he

645
00:33:42,773 --> 00:33:45,813
Speaker 2: looks good enough with a bit more rugby under his

646
00:33:45,853 --> 00:33:46,693
Speaker 2: belt to be playing.

647
00:33:47,533 --> 00:33:48,613
Speaker 5: What position does he play?

648
00:33:48,773 --> 00:33:49,573
Speaker 3: That's the beauty of it.

649
00:33:49,613 --> 00:33:52,013
Speaker 2: I think he could go on the bench with the

650
00:33:52,013 --> 00:33:55,893
Speaker 2: All Blacks and cover flanker or winger. And I think

651
00:33:55,933 --> 00:33:58,933
Speaker 2: that's maybe an area as well where we talk about

652
00:33:59,133 --> 00:34:01,333
Speaker 2: the strategy and various things. Is that not so much

653
00:34:01,373 --> 00:34:03,613
Speaker 2: a bomb squad, but just around using the bench in

654
00:34:03,653 --> 00:34:06,773
Speaker 2: the right positions and being a bit more innovative around

655
00:34:06,933 --> 00:34:10,413
Speaker 2: some of those selections and looking to do things a

656
00:34:10,413 --> 00:34:13,333
Speaker 2: little bit differently that the All Blacks could go with.

657
00:34:13,373 --> 00:34:15,173
Speaker 2: And I think someone like a hybrid player like that

658
00:34:15,933 --> 00:34:17,613
Speaker 2: could be the kind of player that you look to.

659
00:34:18,613 --> 00:34:20,853
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe I think he probably needs a wee bit

660
00:34:20,853 --> 00:34:24,053
Speaker 4: more size to be a test loose for but I

661
00:34:24,093 --> 00:34:27,293
Speaker 4: agree that what a valuable asset to have a guy

662
00:34:27,373 --> 00:34:30,533
Speaker 4: that can genuinely play that breadth of position.

663
00:34:30,853 --> 00:34:31,253
Speaker 5: Yeah.

664
00:34:31,333 --> 00:34:33,573
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, depending on how the Stevens goes,

665
00:34:33,573 --> 00:34:34,773
Speaker 2: I'll be looking at him maybe for a need of

666
00:34:34,853 --> 00:34:35,613
Speaker 2: your two next year.

667
00:34:35,933 --> 00:34:37,613
Speaker 4: I got another one here just on top of the

668
00:34:37,653 --> 00:34:40,893
Speaker 4: head to put you on the spot biggest mover and

669
00:34:41,213 --> 00:34:43,053
Speaker 4: next year. So it could be somebody that has played

670
00:34:43,093 --> 00:34:46,293
Speaker 4: for the All Blacks has not I'll go first to

671
00:34:46,293 --> 00:34:47,853
Speaker 4: give you a bit of time demment. So I'm going

672
00:34:47,853 --> 00:34:51,973
Speaker 4: to go Fabian Holland. For me, it was really telling

673
00:34:52,093 --> 00:34:56,013
Speaker 4: to hear Sam Caine speak so glowingly of his character.

674
00:34:57,253 --> 00:35:00,533
Speaker 4: Fabian has been fast tracked a little bit with the

675
00:35:00,653 --> 00:35:04,333
Speaker 4: change in eligibility played for the All Blacks fifteen spent

676
00:35:04,413 --> 00:35:07,453
Speaker 4: time in the All Blacks camp. He's a unit and

677
00:35:07,933 --> 00:35:12,133
Speaker 4: that extra height is massive from a line out target.

678
00:35:13,453 --> 00:35:15,693
Speaker 4: He will only get better under Jamie Joseph at the

679
00:35:15,733 --> 00:35:19,093
Speaker 4: Highlanders as well. I can see him surpassing Josh Lord

680
00:35:19,213 --> 00:35:24,213
Speaker 4: Sam Dowry and being a bolted on All Black next year.

681
00:35:25,213 --> 00:35:27,333
Speaker 4: So I'll put you on the spot here. Is there

682
00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:29,493
Speaker 4: anybody else that that could be a big mover?

683
00:35:30,693 --> 00:35:32,253
Speaker 2: You have put me on the spot. I'm trying to

684
00:35:32,253 --> 00:35:36,693
Speaker 2: think of who might come into Ammonia and Narawa maybe well,

685
00:35:36,973 --> 00:35:41,693
Speaker 2: look Schaffy Harks. So it's hard to see. Look, I

686
00:35:41,733 --> 00:35:44,893
Speaker 2: agree on Fabian Holland. He when he was training in Turin,

687
00:35:44,973 --> 00:35:47,893
Speaker 2: and look, he is just huge. He is a huge,

688
00:35:48,413 --> 00:35:51,293
Speaker 2: big body that the All Blacks don't really produce and

689
00:35:51,693 --> 00:35:53,693
Speaker 2: are looking to produce. And you look at the effort

690
00:35:53,733 --> 00:35:56,293
Speaker 2: that put into trying to get Josh Lord, because I've

691
00:35:56,293 --> 00:35:59,173
Speaker 2: spotted him and gone, that's a two meter tall body

692
00:35:59,293 --> 00:36:00,893
Speaker 2: that it probably needs a bit more sized. But if

693
00:36:00,933 --> 00:36:03,013
Speaker 2: we can get him into he already plays rugby. If

694
00:36:03,053 --> 00:36:05,453
Speaker 2: we get him into our environment and get him up

695
00:36:05,453 --> 00:36:07,173
Speaker 2: to the level, then he's a you know, it could

696
00:36:07,213 --> 00:36:09,813
Speaker 2: be a test quality player hasn't had a lot of

697
00:36:09,813 --> 00:36:13,653
Speaker 2: opportunities joshlaught at either super level or Test level. But

698
00:36:13,693 --> 00:36:15,773
Speaker 2: Fabian Horn looks like that player that's already filled out

699
00:36:15,773 --> 00:36:18,973
Speaker 2: on the frame, that is ready to go. So I agree.

700
00:36:19,013 --> 00:36:21,173
Speaker 2: Next year I think is going to be a big

701
00:36:21,253 --> 00:36:25,333
Speaker 2: year for Fabian horned in that Max so I think, yeah,

702
00:36:25,333 --> 00:36:27,373
Speaker 2: I can't think of anyone on the top of my head,

703
00:36:27,413 --> 00:36:30,693
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think next year selections are going to

704
00:36:30,733 --> 00:36:34,533
Speaker 2: be very very interesting. Whether Scott Robertson sort of cuts

705
00:36:34,533 --> 00:36:37,733
Speaker 2: a few of the experienced players, whether he remains loyal

706
00:36:37,973 --> 00:36:40,813
Speaker 2: is going to be fascinating to a lot of those

707
00:36:40,933 --> 00:36:45,613
Speaker 2: players that he selected this year. I think next year's

708
00:36:45,613 --> 00:36:47,533
Speaker 2: selection is going to tell a lot more about whether

709
00:36:47,533 --> 00:36:48,653
Speaker 2: this it's all Blacks team's hitting.

710
00:36:49,373 --> 00:36:51,333
Speaker 4: Well, we'll casting the head to next year. So let's

711
00:36:51,373 --> 00:36:56,493
Speaker 4: look at who's coming home lessifying a nook who is

712
00:36:56,533 --> 00:36:59,413
Speaker 4: coming home And when we talk about the complexion of

713
00:36:59,453 --> 00:37:04,653
Speaker 4: the midfields, a guy who's versatile can play wing, a

714
00:37:04,693 --> 00:37:07,893
Speaker 4: guy who raises very familiar withl for the Crusas and

715
00:37:07,893 --> 00:37:15,333
Speaker 4: we've seen that benefit your mate Shay Slandy Jordie is

716
00:37:15,373 --> 00:37:18,573
Speaker 4: a Leicester currently preparing to play his first game for

717
00:37:18,613 --> 00:37:22,973
Speaker 4: the Irish powerhouse province over there. He's going to need

718
00:37:23,013 --> 00:37:25,373
Speaker 4: to be managed next year because you talk about Boden

719
00:37:25,373 --> 00:37:28,693
Speaker 4: Barr and Ardie Severe playing in Japan and coming back

720
00:37:29,013 --> 00:37:32,413
Speaker 4: and how there's a usual adjustment period. Well, Jordie's going

721
00:37:32,453 --> 00:37:35,013
Speaker 4: to be shot. He's got no offseason. He's not going

722
00:37:35,053 --> 00:37:36,613
Speaker 4: to be able to He could walk back in and

723
00:37:36,653 --> 00:37:39,573
Speaker 4: play July because he'd be match foot, but he'd hit

724
00:37:39,613 --> 00:37:42,013
Speaker 4: the wall a couple of months later. So there is

725
00:37:42,053 --> 00:37:45,253
Speaker 4: going to be some change, some rotation in that midfield.

726
00:37:45,853 --> 00:37:48,213
Speaker 4: And the other guy, of course is Richie Wonger.

727
00:37:49,893 --> 00:37:50,693
Speaker 3: Where are we at with that?

728
00:37:51,733 --> 00:37:55,613
Speaker 4: I think he's dead set coming home to be available

729
00:37:55,653 --> 00:37:58,613
Speaker 4: for the All Blacks and twenty twenty five, so not

730
00:37:58,613 --> 00:38:03,173
Speaker 4: the Crusaders, And maybe they'll work some sort of option

731
00:38:03,293 --> 00:38:05,733
Speaker 4: where there's an agreement that he goes back to Japan

732
00:38:05,813 --> 00:38:09,493
Speaker 4: to fulfill the last year post World Cup, something like that.

733
00:38:09,573 --> 00:38:14,453
Speaker 4: But all the noise, everything from the moment Chris Lendrim

734
00:38:14,533 --> 00:38:17,933
Speaker 4: came on with us, has pointed to that eventuating, and

735
00:38:18,133 --> 00:38:22,813
Speaker 4: I think that will happen. Firstly, do you expect him

736
00:38:22,813 --> 00:38:27,653
Speaker 4: to come home? And secondly, is he the savior? Because

737
00:38:27,773 --> 00:38:30,253
Speaker 4: that's basically what he's been built up to be and

738
00:38:30,893 --> 00:38:34,653
Speaker 4: the perception of raises push for tweaks to the eligibility.

739
00:38:36,293 --> 00:38:39,413
Speaker 4: It's not all based around Richie. But he's his quarterback,

740
00:38:39,493 --> 00:38:43,013
Speaker 4: he's his guy. What if he's not, what if it

741
00:38:43,053 --> 00:38:46,413
Speaker 4: doesn't work? Is he as good as he's been built

742
00:38:46,493 --> 00:38:48,533
Speaker 4: up to be? I guess I think he will come back.

743
00:38:48,693 --> 00:38:49,053
Speaker 3: I don't.

744
00:38:49,213 --> 00:38:52,053
Speaker 2: I mean negotiations I think is still going on in

745
00:38:52,093 --> 00:38:55,653
Speaker 2: the background. I think he will return to New Zealand

746
00:38:55,733 --> 00:38:58,733
Speaker 2: rugby and that'll be a bonus for him. Look, you

747
00:38:58,733 --> 00:39:00,813
Speaker 2: look at Richie Wong and it kind of took a

748
00:39:00,813 --> 00:39:02,853
Speaker 2: wee while from defined his feet that test level.

749
00:39:03,173 --> 00:39:09,133
Speaker 3: And is he a better option than Bodenbauer to Iman McKinsey.

750
00:39:09,213 --> 00:39:13,933
Speaker 2: Well, he's an out and out specialist ten and so

751
00:39:13,973 --> 00:39:16,893
Speaker 2: I can't play anywhere else in the team. I think

752
00:39:17,373 --> 00:39:20,853
Speaker 2: by the end of last year he was certainly a

753
00:39:20,933 --> 00:39:24,333
Speaker 2: very very good Test footballer. But is he the savior? No,

754
00:39:24,373 --> 00:39:26,173
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's a savior coming back to New

755
00:39:26,253 --> 00:39:31,133
Speaker 2: Zealand rugby. I think it's wrong to paint anyone as

756
00:39:31,133 --> 00:39:33,933
Speaker 2: a potential savior to this All Blacks team or whatever

757
00:39:33,973 --> 00:39:35,653
Speaker 2: it might be. Is he a good player that could

758
00:39:35,653 --> 00:39:39,733
Speaker 2: add something to the All Blacks absolutely, But I think

759
00:39:40,053 --> 00:39:42,853
Speaker 2: trying to yeah, suguce that the All Blacks fortunes will

760
00:39:43,093 --> 00:39:46,413
Speaker 2: automatically rise because Richie Wong is back at ten I

761
00:39:46,413 --> 00:39:49,693
Speaker 2: think is a bit of a misstep. And he clearly

762
00:39:49,733 --> 00:39:52,613
Speaker 2: works well with Scott Robertson, knows them inside out, knows

763
00:39:52,653 --> 00:39:54,413
Speaker 2: the game plan, knows the way he wants to play.

764
00:39:55,373 --> 00:39:58,013
Speaker 2: But Test rugby it's so much different to Super rugby

765
00:39:58,093 --> 00:40:02,533
Speaker 2: and that's something that I'm sure you know Richie himself

766
00:40:02,573 --> 00:40:05,413
Speaker 2: would admit that it took him a while to get

767
00:40:05,453 --> 00:40:08,813
Speaker 2: to the grips of Test rugby compared to that Super plays.

768
00:40:09,693 --> 00:40:12,653
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he would definitely improve the All Blacks

769
00:40:12,653 --> 00:40:16,013
Speaker 4: attack because it's not just Razor, it's Scott Hansen as well.

770
00:40:17,053 --> 00:40:20,573
Speaker 4: There's clearly that established relationship understanding there. I would be

771
00:40:21,133 --> 00:40:24,133
Speaker 4: very very cautionary of expecting Ritchie to come back and

772
00:40:24,133 --> 00:40:26,893
Speaker 4: slide straight back into Test rugby. We've seen it time

773
00:40:26,933 --> 00:40:29,693
Speaker 4: and time again with guys coming back from Japan. He's

774
00:40:29,693 --> 00:40:34,013
Speaker 4: been there two years, is at least two rungs down

775
00:40:34,613 --> 00:40:37,373
Speaker 4: from Test rugby, and so he's going to need in

776
00:40:37,413 --> 00:40:41,173
Speaker 4: a period a period of adjustment. And then there's the

777
00:40:41,253 --> 00:40:46,373
Speaker 4: relationship dynamic between How does Razor manage that with Boden

778
00:40:46,533 --> 00:40:50,693
Speaker 4: and Dmak? Will that force one, if not both, to

779
00:40:50,853 --> 00:40:54,293
Speaker 4: leave and go to Japan post before the next World Cup.

780
00:40:54,813 --> 00:40:57,413
Speaker 4: So you want your best players available, but there is

781
00:40:58,813 --> 00:41:03,693
Speaker 4: consequences that will arrive out of that. So very interesting

782
00:41:03,733 --> 00:41:05,693
Speaker 4: to see how that scenario plays out. But I think

783
00:41:05,693 --> 00:41:08,053
Speaker 4: we're in agreement that he will be back next year.

784
00:41:08,413 --> 00:41:12,453
Speaker 2: He will, that's certainly the word, and probably eligible from

785
00:41:12,453 --> 00:41:15,373
Speaker 2: what the Rugby Championship onwards. Potentially maybe that France. There

786
00:41:15,453 --> 00:41:18,853
Speaker 2: is no leicstifying who's eligible from the Rugby Championship if

787
00:41:18,973 --> 00:41:22,133
Speaker 2: memory serves, so whether it's different for Richie Morning, even

788
00:41:22,173 --> 00:41:23,733
Speaker 2: it's come from Japan and not France, is going to

789
00:41:23,733 --> 00:41:24,213
Speaker 2: be interesting.

790
00:41:24,613 --> 00:41:24,853
Speaker 3: Yeah.

791
00:41:24,893 --> 00:41:26,893
Speaker 4: I think you'd expect both those guys to be floating

792
00:41:26,893 --> 00:41:29,373
Speaker 4: around the squads, whether they available or not.

793
00:41:29,853 --> 00:41:31,493
Speaker 5: We've seen them bend the rules to suit.

794
00:41:31,773 --> 00:41:35,893
Speaker 2: Speaking of bending the rules, eligibility again a hot topic

795
00:41:35,933 --> 00:41:39,373
Speaker 2: this year, Scott Robertson was asked on the postmatches as

796
00:41:39,373 --> 00:41:41,973
Speaker 2: well media zom for to MW Zealand Media after the

797
00:41:42,053 --> 00:41:45,493
Speaker 2: Turin test around it said some similar lines to what

798
00:41:45,533 --> 00:41:47,893
Speaker 2: he said already, keep asking the board to keep them

799
00:41:47,893 --> 00:41:49,733
Speaker 2: in an open mind. I guess the board's going to

800
00:41:49,853 --> 00:41:51,973
Speaker 2: change soon. It's going to be some different faces on there.

801
00:41:54,493 --> 00:41:56,773
Speaker 2: Where do you sit on that argument?

802
00:41:57,533 --> 00:42:01,533
Speaker 4: My view hasn't really changed. I think from what I

803
00:42:01,613 --> 00:42:06,253
Speaker 4: understand Ray's argument is he wants more flexibility around Japan specifically,

804
00:42:06,973 --> 00:42:13,973
Speaker 4: and the sabbatical being increased, allowing a Richie Mouonga to

805
00:42:14,013 --> 00:42:20,173
Speaker 4: go for two years. It's a dangerous precedent because, however

806
00:42:20,773 --> 00:42:24,653
Speaker 4: you want to spin it, it does undermine Super Rugby massively.

807
00:42:25,053 --> 00:42:28,613
Speaker 4: And I saw recently Paul Cully did a piece with

808
00:42:28,733 --> 00:42:32,493
Speaker 4: the five check chief executives of Super Rugby. No surprises,

809
00:42:32,653 --> 00:42:37,893
Speaker 4: none of them want it, and I think the values

810
00:42:37,933 --> 00:42:42,173
Speaker 4: that competition. And I also think we need to be

811
00:42:42,253 --> 00:42:46,653
Speaker 4: really cautionary about saying the Springboks have got it right

812
00:42:46,893 --> 00:42:52,173
Speaker 4: because they have golden generation of players and they also

813
00:42:52,213 --> 00:42:55,493
Speaker 4: have incredible depth, and what works for them doesn't have

814
00:42:55,573 --> 00:42:58,413
Speaker 4: to work for us, and we don't know how that's

815
00:42:58,413 --> 00:43:01,173
Speaker 4: going to play out for them long term, and that this.

816
00:43:02,653 --> 00:43:05,253
Speaker 5: Cap scenario expanding.

817
00:43:04,773 --> 00:43:07,493
Speaker 4: The eligibility has not worked for other nations as well,

818
00:43:07,533 --> 00:43:10,613
Speaker 4: so it's not a one size fits all. So as

819
00:43:10,613 --> 00:43:13,693
Speaker 4: it stands, I'm happy without us. I would like I

820
00:43:13,733 --> 00:43:16,853
Speaker 4: don't think we should bend over backwards to suit raisor

821
00:43:16,973 --> 00:43:20,213
Speaker 4: I think the focus should be on developing players we have.

822
00:43:20,693 --> 00:43:22,813
Speaker 3: I'd like you to keep an open mind on it, Liam,

823
00:43:22,893 --> 00:43:26,693
Speaker 3: if you could look. What I would say is.

824
00:43:29,493 --> 00:43:33,653
Speaker 2: From my understanding from one of hers, that Japan are

825
00:43:33,693 --> 00:43:35,853
Speaker 2: lesson LEAs luckly to assign players to one year deals.

826
00:43:36,133 --> 00:43:37,573
Speaker 3: They just don't work for them. They don't get the

827
00:43:37,653 --> 00:43:38,173
Speaker 3: value out of it.

828
00:43:38,613 --> 00:43:39,533
Speaker 5: And that makes sense, doesn't it.

829
00:43:39,573 --> 00:43:42,613
Speaker 2: And so if players are offering, sorry, if clubs are

830
00:43:42,613 --> 00:43:45,453
Speaker 2: offering two year deals to players and going come up

831
00:43:45,453 --> 00:43:49,053
Speaker 2: for two years, then they resigned for New Zealand Rugby.

832
00:43:49,133 --> 00:43:51,373
Speaker 2: After that there remain eligible for the all Black skin

833
00:43:51,533 --> 00:43:53,493
Speaker 2: entire time. I don't know that I have a huge

834
00:43:53,533 --> 00:43:54,853
Speaker 2: issue with that necessarily.

835
00:43:54,933 --> 00:43:56,653
Speaker 4: How many of you letting go though, because then you

836
00:43:56,733 --> 00:44:00,413
Speaker 4: take Artie severe Rich and along a Boden Barrett, like

837
00:44:00,493 --> 00:44:04,053
Speaker 4: the superstars of the game out of Super Rugby for

838
00:44:04,093 --> 00:44:04,853
Speaker 4: two years.

839
00:44:04,613 --> 00:44:06,813
Speaker 2: But they already are out of Super Rugby for two years.

840
00:44:06,973 --> 00:44:09,293
Speaker 2: Addie Savia didn't play this and Super Rugby he's not

841
00:44:09,293 --> 00:44:11,613
Speaker 2: going to play for Mowana in twenty six off the

842
00:44:11,653 --> 00:44:14,453
Speaker 2: top of my head, so what's like, what's the is

843
00:44:14,453 --> 00:44:16,333
Speaker 2: it more confusing to have them out for a two

844
00:44:16,413 --> 00:44:20,813
Speaker 2: year block straight away? Or oh, Artie's playing Formana this year,

845
00:44:20,813 --> 00:44:22,373
Speaker 2: he's not playing next year and he's coming back in

846
00:44:22,373 --> 00:44:22,933
Speaker 2: twenty seven.

847
00:44:22,973 --> 00:44:24,413
Speaker 5: How many of these are are you allowing?

848
00:44:25,453 --> 00:44:26,973
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, I think you can put a cap on it.

849
00:44:27,773 --> 00:44:29,293
Speaker 5: How many? How many? Give me a number?

850
00:44:29,293 --> 00:44:30,413
Speaker 3: Five?

851
00:44:30,453 --> 00:44:33,853
Speaker 4: Are you taking the five best players, five Super the

852
00:44:33,893 --> 00:44:36,333
Speaker 4: best players out of Super eight? Well they are Ritchie

853
00:44:37,093 --> 00:44:39,333
Speaker 4: Artie Severe World Player of the Year the year before.

854
00:44:40,013 --> 00:44:42,093
Speaker 3: What's the TV two p y.

855
00:44:43,493 --> 00:44:45,733
Speaker 4: You're struggling to put bums on seats in this competition

856
00:44:45,813 --> 00:44:47,533
Speaker 4: and you're taking the five best players out.

857
00:44:47,613 --> 00:44:49,653
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Ardie Savie didn't play for the Hurricanes this year.

858
00:44:49,693 --> 00:44:51,453
Speaker 2: Jordi Barrett's not playing for the Hurricanes next year.

859
00:44:51,493 --> 00:44:55,533
Speaker 5: That's fair. These are one so these are one year currently,

860
00:44:55,573 --> 00:44:56,413
Speaker 5: one year at a time.

861
00:44:56,533 --> 00:44:57,573
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that makes no sense.

862
00:44:57,613 --> 00:45:00,053
Speaker 2: Like if you're looking, if you're a fan of Super Rugby, Oh,

863
00:45:00,093 --> 00:45:02,093
Speaker 2: is Jordi playing for Super for the Hurricanes this year?

864
00:45:02,133 --> 00:45:02,533
Speaker 3: I know he's not.

865
00:45:02,573 --> 00:45:04,413
Speaker 2: He's away this year, is already playing for the Hurricanes

866
00:45:04,493 --> 00:45:06,653
Speaker 2: Orana this year? I know this is his way yet

867
00:45:07,013 --> 00:45:08,453
Speaker 2: go out for two years and a block, you know,

868
00:45:08,533 --> 00:45:10,733
Speaker 2: what's happening. They're away in Japan, they come back for

869
00:45:10,813 --> 00:45:12,613
Speaker 2: two consecutive blocks.

870
00:45:12,653 --> 00:45:14,333
Speaker 3: At the end of two consecutive seasons.

871
00:45:13,973 --> 00:45:16,053
Speaker 4: You're doubling the time that they're out of the competition. Well, no,

872
00:45:16,093 --> 00:45:17,973
Speaker 4: they're already out for most of them, for one year

873
00:45:18,013 --> 00:45:20,693
Speaker 4: at a time. But is it be said to have

874
00:45:20,733 --> 00:45:23,213
Speaker 4: the Boden? Barratt's another example. He's been in and out

875
00:45:23,213 --> 00:45:25,173
Speaker 4: of the Blues environment ever since he signed. You're right,

876
00:45:25,213 --> 00:45:28,693
Speaker 4: it has happened and it goes back. Brodie Rittelic. You

877
00:45:28,733 --> 00:45:30,653
Speaker 4: know so many So what's more confused?

878
00:45:30,733 --> 00:45:32,773
Speaker 2: Like what's better to actually generally know that a player

879
00:45:32,853 --> 00:45:34,653
Speaker 2: is going to do his time overseas then come back

880
00:45:34,653 --> 00:45:38,533
Speaker 2: for good, good inverted commas or do a year about

881
00:45:38,653 --> 00:45:40,213
Speaker 2: what's what's better for the comp I don't know that

882
00:45:41,373 --> 00:45:43,213
Speaker 2: the inconsistency is that good for super Rugby?

883
00:45:43,413 --> 00:45:46,893
Speaker 4: Maybe not, but Leasa's best. The more excess super Abia

884
00:45:46,933 --> 00:45:48,573
Speaker 4: has to its best players, the better.

885
00:45:51,533 --> 00:45:55,693
Speaker 2: Okay, would you allow super Abia to expand the borders

886
00:45:55,773 --> 00:45:59,133
Speaker 2: so you're allowed to select safe from Australia?

887
00:46:00,053 --> 00:46:02,613
Speaker 4: I would allow it if Japan were in the competition,

888
00:46:03,493 --> 00:46:06,013
Speaker 4: because then you still have eyes on those players. You

889
00:46:06,053 --> 00:46:08,933
Speaker 4: still have them coming to play Eden Park in Hamilton

890
00:46:09,493 --> 00:46:10,573
Speaker 4: and in Dunedin.

891
00:46:10,733 --> 00:46:13,293
Speaker 3: What's in it for Japan though, Well, nothing.

892
00:46:13,213 --> 00:46:17,773
Speaker 4: And that's why they're not engaged with it yet. But

893
00:46:17,973 --> 00:46:22,453
Speaker 4: that's that's New Zealand Rugby's dream scenario. Because Japan pays

894
00:46:23,253 --> 00:46:26,493
Speaker 4: some of their best players wages, They're still in the competition,

895
00:46:26,573 --> 00:46:30,213
Speaker 4: they still have visibility. That's their dream scenario. Whether it

896
00:46:30,213 --> 00:46:33,333
Speaker 4: will happen as a completely another kettle of fish.

897
00:46:33,373 --> 00:46:36,093
Speaker 2: We're talking about Japan joining Super Rugby, what about Super

898
00:46:36,173 --> 00:46:37,933
Speaker 2: Rugby joining League One.

899
00:46:39,373 --> 00:46:40,933
Speaker 4: I think they'd be open to if they could make

900
00:46:40,933 --> 00:46:44,493
Speaker 4: it work. What's the difference really, it's just a branding exercise.

901
00:46:44,213 --> 00:46:47,253
Speaker 2: Probably, but Japan, Japan with the power base that there,

902
00:46:47,293 --> 00:46:50,013
Speaker 2: that Super Rugby gets consumed by league.

903
00:46:50,413 --> 00:46:53,333
Speaker 4: New Zealand Rugby's dream is to have the best maybe

904
00:46:53,453 --> 00:46:54,653
Speaker 4: three top league teams.

905
00:46:54,773 --> 00:46:58,213
Speaker 5: But if you're Japan, what's in it for you?

906
00:46:58,293 --> 00:47:02,093
Speaker 3: Really? Well, not a lot, not a lot. But he's

907
00:47:02,133 --> 00:47:02,413
Speaker 3: on for you.

908
00:47:03,773 --> 00:47:06,853
Speaker 2: Joey marn who has a storming year for Toyota the

909
00:47:06,893 --> 00:47:09,773
Speaker 2: war tis go yep. We want to get him back

910
00:47:09,813 --> 00:47:12,253
Speaker 2: in the midfield. What don't get him playing with Sulei

911
00:47:13,253 --> 00:47:15,853
Speaker 2: reunite that Rooster's combination should he be eligible for the

912
00:47:15,853 --> 00:47:17,693
Speaker 2: All Blacks. Joey Martin, who plays the war at us

913
00:47:18,093 --> 00:47:20,413
Speaker 2: wildly off topic and hypotheticals here, but.

914
00:47:20,933 --> 00:47:22,853
Speaker 4: I would say new Ze Raby would make that happen.

915
00:47:23,173 --> 00:47:26,173
Speaker 4: That'd been the rules, and I would not be shocked

916
00:47:26,213 --> 00:47:28,293
Speaker 4: to see. I haven't seen Joey Marnin who play yet,

917
00:47:28,333 --> 00:47:33,413
Speaker 4: but based on what Joseph sue Lee look Suey Lee

918
00:47:33,453 --> 00:47:36,933
Speaker 4: is not the finished article brilliant attack. He's been exposed

919
00:47:36,973 --> 00:47:39,893
Speaker 4: on defence, so he's got a lot to learn in

920
00:47:39,933 --> 00:47:41,933
Speaker 4: the game and he's going to do that through Super Rugby.

921
00:47:42,213 --> 00:47:44,613
Speaker 4: But we've seen it with Roger two of us as

922
00:47:44,653 --> 00:47:47,493
Speaker 4: sick and he was fast tracked because of who he was,

923
00:47:48,173 --> 00:47:51,453
Speaker 4: and I would not be surprised to see the All

924
00:47:51,493 --> 00:47:54,173
Speaker 4: Blacks do something similar with Joey Marno in the coming years.

925
00:47:54,773 --> 00:47:56,853
Speaker 2: Final topic in the signal of the podcast before we

926
00:47:56,893 --> 00:47:59,093
Speaker 2: get into the final four wild Player of the Year awards.

927
00:47:59,453 --> 00:48:03,213
Speaker 2: World Rugby's Awards were dished out. What a week or

928
00:48:03,213 --> 00:48:06,733
Speaker 2: so ago, now, any surprises there for you?

929
00:48:07,173 --> 00:48:10,093
Speaker 3: Liam? That raised the want to.

930
00:48:10,213 --> 00:48:13,173
Speaker 4: Look Eban It's that was my player of the Year.

931
00:48:13,613 --> 00:48:16,773
Speaker 4: Peter steff De tweet was huge for the box at

932
00:48:16,773 --> 00:48:19,573
Speaker 4: the World Cup, but I thought Evan was a rung

933
00:48:19,613 --> 00:48:23,413
Speaker 4: above him and the French sevens coach winning Player of

934
00:48:23,453 --> 00:48:25,533
Speaker 4: the Year, I thought pretty tough on.

935
00:48:25,613 --> 00:48:27,653
Speaker 2: RUSSI Well, for me, I don't think you can give

936
00:48:27,693 --> 00:48:30,453
Speaker 2: it to both because both him and Antoine, because I

937
00:48:30,453 --> 00:48:33,213
Speaker 2: don't have an issued necessarily with Anton departmenting seven's player

938
00:48:33,253 --> 00:48:35,053
Speaker 2: of the Year because you put him in that environment.

939
00:48:35,093 --> 00:48:38,013
Speaker 2: It elevated them to be Olympic champions. That's the impact

940
00:48:38,373 --> 00:48:40,213
Speaker 2: he had on that team. But then I don't think

941
00:48:40,253 --> 00:48:42,733
Speaker 2: he can give it to the coach necessarily at the

942
00:48:42,733 --> 00:48:45,853
Speaker 2: same time, because it wasn't like it was his coaching.

943
00:48:45,893 --> 00:48:49,453
Speaker 2: It was Anton de Pont's just incredible ability. They got

944
00:48:49,453 --> 00:48:50,973
Speaker 2: in that Olympic gode. But it came off the bench,

945
00:48:50,973 --> 00:48:52,893
Speaker 2: scored two tries. It wasn't as though I was the

946
00:48:52,933 --> 00:48:55,653
Speaker 2: coaching that got on there. So Russia Rasmas I think

947
00:48:55,693 --> 00:48:58,453
Speaker 2: can feel pretty hard done by in that regard. So too,

948
00:48:58,493 --> 00:49:01,213
Speaker 2: I think Corey Sweeney can back to back gold medals

949
00:49:01,493 --> 00:49:04,493
Speaker 2: in the Olympics for the New Zealand women's team doesn't

950
00:49:04,533 --> 00:49:06,813
Speaker 2: get a look in there. Somehow the French bloke gets it,

951
00:49:07,493 --> 00:49:10,013
Speaker 2: so they always come up with some weird and wonderful

952
00:49:10,053 --> 00:49:12,213
Speaker 2: things as will play it Rugby awards.

953
00:49:12,253 --> 00:49:14,813
Speaker 4: At least Wallace one. That was a laydown massa for him.

954
00:49:15,053 --> 00:49:17,293
Speaker 4: Before we move on, we do have one other topic

955
00:49:17,893 --> 00:49:20,853
Speaker 4: for next year. We have jumped around here, but who's

956
00:49:20,853 --> 00:49:24,773
Speaker 4: in the firing line for twenty twenty five? Probably you

957
00:49:24,933 --> 00:49:28,453
Speaker 4: for putting an alarm on the just one of the

958
00:49:28,453 --> 00:49:29,493
Speaker 4: many contexts calling me.

959
00:49:29,613 --> 00:49:31,653
Speaker 3: They're asking with that Rugby Rick Plocas is going to be.

960
00:49:31,613 --> 00:49:33,893
Speaker 5: A who's in the firing line?

961
00:49:34,613 --> 00:49:37,853
Speaker 4: Personally, I think Gats doesn't get fired because he's too expensive.

962
00:49:38,493 --> 00:49:41,973
Speaker 4: But old uncle Robin christ Church, can.

963
00:49:41,893 --> 00:49:46,333
Speaker 2: We do get Rob to Rob to the valleys and

964
00:49:46,653 --> 00:49:49,093
Speaker 2: Gats to Warriorble to rugby parking?

965
00:49:49,173 --> 00:49:51,733
Speaker 3: Christ Church to Wales? Want Rob?

966
00:49:51,973 --> 00:49:52,733
Speaker 5: Does anyone want?

967
00:49:53,053 --> 00:49:53,853
Speaker 3: Does anyone want Warren?

968
00:49:54,333 --> 00:49:56,453
Speaker 4: It was a special to see Brad and war back

969
00:49:56,613 --> 00:50:00,013
Speaker 4: at the Crusaders and he could be a real succession

970
00:50:00,013 --> 00:50:01,053
Speaker 4: plan in the coming years.

971
00:50:05,653 --> 00:50:08,413
Speaker 2: Welcome home, by the way, Thank you. Look, I think

972
00:50:08,533 --> 00:50:10,773
Speaker 2: I think you're right about they can't afford to Wales.

973
00:50:11,053 --> 00:50:13,933
Speaker 2: Rugby is an absolute state at the moment, all those

974
00:50:13,973 --> 00:50:17,253
Speaker 2: issues around the women's team and everything going on there.

975
00:50:17,333 --> 00:50:20,813
Speaker 2: The men's team is a basketcase coach by Warren Gatland,

976
00:50:20,853 --> 00:50:23,973
Speaker 2: who's time out of international rugby should have been years ago.

977
00:50:24,813 --> 00:50:27,173
Speaker 2: So I can't see them getting rid of them becausey't

978
00:50:27,173 --> 00:50:29,333
Speaker 2: simply can't afford it. The Crusader's, on the other hand,

979
00:50:30,133 --> 00:50:31,933
Speaker 2: Thomasy Allison was their succession plan.

980
00:50:32,053 --> 00:50:32,693
Speaker 3: He's now gone.

981
00:50:32,853 --> 00:50:34,293
Speaker 2: Oh I'll have a job at the All Blacks, and

982
00:50:34,293 --> 00:50:37,013
Speaker 2: a permanent one at that because Leon McDonald's left. So

983
00:50:37,373 --> 00:50:40,013
Speaker 2: I think I think the Crusaders will be better next

984
00:50:40,093 --> 00:50:45,053
Speaker 2: year for a variety of reasons. But to me it

985
00:50:45,053 --> 00:50:46,893
Speaker 2: always felt like a two year deal for Robpinnion. That

986
00:50:46,933 --> 00:50:49,213
Speaker 2: was probably him done and dusted. So they're going to

987
00:50:49,213 --> 00:50:52,213
Speaker 2: have to look elsewhere. I'll be looking at Joe Schmitt.

988
00:50:53,013 --> 00:50:54,893
Speaker 3: Come on down, Brad Moore, closer to.

989
00:50:54,813 --> 00:50:59,773
Speaker 2: Home, Joe Schmitt. Wallaby's Well, we'll get into this in

990
00:50:59,813 --> 00:51:01,693
Speaker 2: a moment or two. But if I'm the Crusaders, I'm

991
00:51:01,693 --> 00:51:05,013
Speaker 2: going to Joe Schmitt AND's going come home, come home

992
00:51:05,053 --> 00:51:05,653
Speaker 2: to New Zealand.

993
00:51:06,133 --> 00:51:07,133
Speaker 3: He mean he lives in New Zealand.

994
00:51:07,133 --> 00:51:09,453
Speaker 5: Anyway, great option. Anyway, I'd snap up Joe Schmitt.

995
00:51:09,653 --> 00:51:13,133
Speaker 2: So come on Men's Bridge, if you're listening, get on

996
00:51:13,133 --> 00:51:14,853
Speaker 2: the bar. We'll take a break, come back with more

997
00:51:14,893 --> 00:51:16,173
Speaker 2: after this on Rugby Director.

998
00:51:16,853 --> 00:51:20,933
Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares.

999
00:51:24,293 --> 00:51:27,573
Speaker 2: Every try, try ten sixty sec, every tackle, don't pack

1000
00:51:27,573 --> 00:51:27,973
Speaker 2: the tackle?

1001
00:51:28,053 --> 00:51:32,853
Speaker 3: Get up again? Will I take him before our times?

1002
00:51:32,893 --> 00:51:34,013
Speaker 5: It's Rugby Direct.

1003
00:51:35,853 --> 00:51:38,453
Speaker 2: Welcome back into Rugby Direct time Now for the final

1004
00:51:38,813 --> 00:51:42,253
Speaker 2: four four rugby topics, Liam and I would debate them. Liam,

1005
00:51:42,813 --> 00:51:45,973
Speaker 2: will Joe Schmitt stay at the Wallabies beyond the end

1006
00:51:46,013 --> 00:51:47,493
Speaker 2: of the line series.

1007
00:51:49,253 --> 00:51:52,933
Speaker 5: If they beat the Lions? He will? And if they don't,

1008
00:51:53,013 --> 00:51:53,453
Speaker 5: he won't.

1009
00:51:54,213 --> 00:51:55,653
Speaker 2: You can you take that long to decide about it?

1010
00:51:55,693 --> 00:51:58,653
Speaker 2: I reckon I'll have to decide in the summertime, like

1011
00:51:58,733 --> 00:52:02,173
Speaker 2: in the coming weeks, because the Australian rugby's, you know,

1012
00:52:02,173 --> 00:52:03,453
Speaker 2: off the whole of the back of the lines to it.

1013
00:52:03,453 --> 00:52:05,373
Speaker 2: They're gonna have to go straight into a rugby Championship

1014
00:52:06,053 --> 00:52:08,493
Speaker 2: with someone in place, whether it's Joe Schmitt, whether it's

1015
00:52:08,733 --> 00:52:12,653
Speaker 2: Stephen Kham, Dan McKellar, Michael Checker was going.

1016
00:52:12,573 --> 00:52:16,493
Speaker 5: To ask you, well, Penny, what's the succession plan for Penny? Good?

1017
00:52:16,613 --> 00:52:17,933
Speaker 5: Good gags, good gags?

1018
00:52:19,053 --> 00:52:22,173
Speaker 2: They don't Well, I suppose they've got a group of

1019
00:52:22,213 --> 00:52:24,813
Speaker 2: Australian coaches now back in McKellar and.

1020
00:52:24,693 --> 00:52:27,253
Speaker 3: Marke Kellen is a great option after one year at

1021
00:52:27,293 --> 00:52:27,813
Speaker 3: the Warrior Tis.

1022
00:52:27,853 --> 00:52:29,733
Speaker 2: I suppose whether they be ready, but I suppose you've

1023
00:52:29,773 --> 00:52:33,093
Speaker 2: got to take these opportunities when they come. Look, I

1024
00:52:33,173 --> 00:52:35,173
Speaker 2: know that Australian Rugby will be desperate to keep Joe

1025
00:52:35,173 --> 00:52:37,933
Speaker 2: Schmidty'll throw as much money as they possibly can at

1026
00:52:38,013 --> 00:52:39,693
Speaker 2: him to keep him there. With that's going to be

1027
00:52:39,813 --> 00:52:43,573
Speaker 2: enough is the question for him because.

1028
00:52:43,293 --> 00:52:44,293
Speaker 3: He's got so many.

1029
00:52:46,093 --> 00:52:48,693
Speaker 2: He's got issues obviously back at home around his family

1030
00:52:48,733 --> 00:52:50,533
Speaker 2: and things like that, so it needs to be in

1031
00:52:50,573 --> 00:52:53,213
Speaker 2: New Zealand where they can accommodate that. Still, whether he's

1032
00:52:53,253 --> 00:52:55,893
Speaker 2: comfortable doing that for you know, it's very well doing

1033
00:52:55,893 --> 00:52:57,933
Speaker 2: it for eighteen months, but doing it for another two

1034
00:52:57,973 --> 00:52:59,933
Speaker 2: and a half years leading into a World Cup is

1035
00:53:00,253 --> 00:53:02,413
Speaker 2: another question entirely. But you look at the impact he's

1036
00:53:02,413 --> 00:53:04,733
Speaker 2: made on that team. They need to throw the money

1037
00:53:04,933 --> 00:53:06,253
Speaker 2: they need to convince him to stay.

1038
00:53:06,413 --> 00:53:09,613
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, you're right they they would love to keep him,

1039
00:53:10,493 --> 00:53:13,453
Speaker 4: But I think Joe went into that with a two

1040
00:53:13,533 --> 00:53:17,773
Speaker 4: year rebuild. You know, hit job, get and get out,

1041
00:53:18,533 --> 00:53:22,373
Speaker 4: do what he can. But he's also a guy that's

1042
00:53:22,973 --> 00:53:26,213
Speaker 4: once he's in and he's got his feet under the desk.

1043
00:53:26,693 --> 00:53:30,253
Speaker 4: He's very controlling, very passionate. It will be hard for

1044
00:53:30,373 --> 00:53:34,173
Speaker 4: him to walk away, So I think on the balance

1045
00:53:34,173 --> 00:53:36,893
Speaker 4: of what you're saying, you know, with his family and everything,

1046
00:53:37,173 --> 00:53:41,413
Speaker 4: he probably will leave. But if that does come to pass,

1047
00:53:41,773 --> 00:53:43,053
Speaker 4: I think you'll find it very hard.

1048
00:53:43,573 --> 00:53:45,893
Speaker 2: Christy Dorian from the Raw friend of the Pods and

1049
00:53:46,013 --> 00:53:48,813
Speaker 2: obviously with the USPN scrumpop with them earlier in the year,

1050
00:53:48,933 --> 00:53:50,773
Speaker 2: suggesting I spoke to him on new stooks he'd been

1051
00:53:50,813 --> 00:53:54,973
Speaker 2: the weekend, suggesting that probably unlikely, more unlikely than not

1052
00:53:55,053 --> 00:53:58,133
Speaker 2: he will re sign. Sorry, more unlikely than likely that

1053
00:53:58,173 --> 00:54:01,493
Speaker 2: he will stay at Rugby Australia. You know, maybe comes

1054
00:54:01,493 --> 00:54:03,133
Speaker 2: back from his end OFAR tour, looks at the progress

1055
00:54:03,133 --> 00:54:05,813
Speaker 2: and goes stick around for another couple of years.

1056
00:54:06,013 --> 00:54:09,813
Speaker 5: Wild card Leel McDonald to the war. It would be

1057
00:54:09,813 --> 00:54:10,333
Speaker 5: a wild card.

1058
00:54:10,333 --> 00:54:13,293
Speaker 4: There were a few whispers they've gone a wee bit quiet,

1059
00:54:14,253 --> 00:54:16,893
Speaker 4: but I would not rule it out.

1060
00:54:17,933 --> 00:54:22,453
Speaker 2: Watch the Space topic number two Sevy Reese news coming

1061
00:54:22,533 --> 00:54:24,293
Speaker 2: before we record this podcast, or a day before we

1062
00:54:24,333 --> 00:54:26,973
Speaker 2: record this podcast that he was discharged with that conviction

1063
00:54:27,533 --> 00:54:30,453
Speaker 2: on the basis of some unruly behavior of the night

1064
00:54:30,653 --> 00:54:33,413
Speaker 2: after Cup day in christ Juts in twenty twenty three.

1065
00:54:33,493 --> 00:54:35,573
Speaker 2: So what was that three weeks after the World Cup final?

1066
00:54:38,733 --> 00:54:41,133
Speaker 2: What are his All Blacks prospects heading into next year

1067
00:54:42,853 --> 00:54:44,973
Speaker 2: and would you stick with him, you know, on the

1068
00:54:45,013 --> 00:54:47,053
Speaker 2: basis of this latest indiscretion.

1069
00:54:47,933 --> 00:54:51,733
Speaker 4: I think this latest indiscretion in the context of sev

1070
00:54:51,853 --> 00:54:57,613
Speaker 4: Reese's career is relatively minor. But and look, everyone makes

1071
00:54:57,653 --> 00:55:03,293
Speaker 4: mistakes in life. I'm in glasshouse. You know, everyone deserves

1072
00:55:03,293 --> 00:55:06,533
Speaker 4: second chances. But it's when you start making repeat mistakes

1073
00:55:06,653 --> 00:55:10,693
Speaker 4: that you become a lib liddy. In an employer context,

1074
00:55:10,813 --> 00:55:14,893
Speaker 4: Sevhu's re signed for two years. I think it was

1075
00:55:15,413 --> 00:55:17,933
Speaker 4: around I'm not sure if it was around the time

1076
00:55:17,933 --> 00:55:21,293
Speaker 4: of this incident or just after. So he becomes high

1077
00:55:21,413 --> 00:55:24,453
Speaker 4: risk for New Zealand Rugby and added the time at

1078
00:55:24,493 --> 00:55:27,413
Speaker 4: a time when has placed in the All Blacks is

1079
00:55:27,493 --> 00:55:33,293
Speaker 4: under question. So as his stocks are seemingly declining and

1080
00:55:33,573 --> 00:55:36,093
Speaker 4: you've got these off field incidents, you start to question

1081
00:55:36,173 --> 00:55:39,653
Speaker 4: these things, don't you. Lucky, by all accounts, has made

1082
00:55:39,693 --> 00:55:43,973
Speaker 4: some positive change since this incident, given up alcohol, made

1083
00:55:44,013 --> 00:55:48,093
Speaker 4: some which has had a big impact on him. But

1084
00:55:49,373 --> 00:55:51,933
Speaker 4: it's the fact that he has now been discharged twice

1085
00:55:52,413 --> 00:55:54,133
Speaker 4: that people get their back up about.

1086
00:55:54,213 --> 00:55:55,493
Speaker 5: It's it's the.

1087
00:55:55,413 --> 00:55:59,613
Speaker 4: Preferential the perception of the preference, preferential treatment given to

1088
00:55:59,653 --> 00:56:03,013
Speaker 4: an all black over an ordinary citizen. And it's the

1089
00:56:03,093 --> 00:56:07,893
Speaker 4: twenty eight it's the twenty eighteen incident, in particular, the

1090
00:56:07,933 --> 00:56:13,573
Speaker 4: incident involving his former partner. That one really greats people

1091
00:56:14,133 --> 00:56:18,293
Speaker 4: because if you and I do that, by all accounts,

1092
00:56:18,293 --> 00:56:18,893
Speaker 4: we're convicted.

1093
00:56:19,013 --> 00:56:20,693
Speaker 3: Well do we know that? Though? Do we know that?

1094
00:56:20,733 --> 00:56:21,653
Speaker 3: Because I know for sure?

1095
00:56:21,733 --> 00:56:21,853
Speaker 5: No.

1096
00:56:22,013 --> 00:56:23,933
Speaker 2: I think everyone's got this idea that if you're an

1097
00:56:23,973 --> 00:56:26,093
Speaker 2: all black you get preferential treatment. But the thing is

1098
00:56:26,133 --> 00:56:28,653
Speaker 2: that's because it's reporter on and it's publicized. If you

1099
00:56:28,693 --> 00:56:32,933
Speaker 2: were a plumber or an electrician or an accountant, do

1100
00:56:33,053 --> 00:56:36,013
Speaker 2: you get the same treatment? Who knows, But they're not publicized,

1101
00:56:36,013 --> 00:56:37,573
Speaker 2: they're not reporter on. So maybe you do get the

1102
00:56:37,573 --> 00:56:38,093
Speaker 2: same treatment.

1103
00:56:38,213 --> 00:56:42,533
Speaker 4: Where it does help your case as you have high

1104
00:56:42,533 --> 00:56:48,293
Speaker 4: profile endorsements from coaches and whatnot, and it does genuinely

1105
00:56:48,413 --> 00:56:51,613
Speaker 4: jeopardize your career and that you can't enter some countries

1106
00:56:51,613 --> 00:56:52,253
Speaker 4: with a conviction.

1107
00:56:52,413 --> 00:56:52,853
Speaker 5: You can't.

1108
00:56:53,173 --> 00:56:57,253
Speaker 4: He had a contracts in France and Ireland fall through

1109
00:56:58,093 --> 00:57:02,493
Speaker 4: despite not but despite getting discharged. They didn't want him

1110
00:57:02,533 --> 00:57:05,173
Speaker 4: because of that. Yeah, so that was a moral decision

1111
00:57:05,533 --> 00:57:08,293
Speaker 4: for Conic at the time. So that's where it does

1112
00:57:08,573 --> 00:57:13,053
Speaker 4: benefits or Blacks or sportsmen that do have to travel.

1113
00:57:13,333 --> 00:57:16,373
Speaker 4: Judges take into consideration the impact on their careers. So

1114
00:57:16,453 --> 00:57:19,373
Speaker 4: that's where it does differentiate from a plumber or whoever.

1115
00:57:19,493 --> 00:57:22,573
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you go, does it outweigh the does

1116
00:57:22,613 --> 00:57:28,293
Speaker 2: the charge or the outweigh the consequences? And that's I

1117
00:57:28,293 --> 00:57:30,933
Speaker 2: suppose the only thing around it is if you're a

1118
00:57:30,933 --> 00:57:34,973
Speaker 2: whole profile, then it does you know, a minor and

1119
00:57:34,893 --> 00:57:38,253
Speaker 2: inverted commas and discretion could outweigh could you know, the

1120
00:57:38,253 --> 00:57:40,533
Speaker 2: close coinses could outwigh what was actually what actually happened,

1121
00:57:40,533 --> 00:57:42,773
Speaker 2: And that would not necessarily apply to Joe blogs walking

1122
00:57:42,773 --> 00:57:43,293
Speaker 2: down the street.

1123
00:57:43,733 --> 00:57:44,533
Speaker 3: I's not forget as well.

1124
00:57:44,573 --> 00:57:46,093
Speaker 4: Sorry, I was just gonna say, I think it's the

1125
00:57:46,173 --> 00:57:48,813
Speaker 4: repeat offending and what seven has to do now he's

1126
00:57:48,813 --> 00:57:50,773
Speaker 4: made positive, James has to stay squeaky clean.

1127
00:57:50,853 --> 00:57:53,053
Speaker 2: Let's not forget as well. Sibery said, probably one of

1128
00:57:53,133 --> 00:57:55,293
Speaker 2: his best super rugby seasons this year. Didn't have a

1129
00:57:55,293 --> 00:57:59,333
Speaker 2: great all Black season and poor game against France, but

1130
00:58:00,013 --> 00:58:02,213
Speaker 2: he was with her was because it was weighing on

1131
00:58:02,293 --> 00:58:04,413
Speaker 2: him and in the background and thinking he had to

1132
00:58:04,413 --> 00:58:06,173
Speaker 2: sort of outperform or whatever it was. But he was

1133
00:58:06,173 --> 00:58:08,293
Speaker 2: actually very good in super Uguba this year, by far

1134
00:58:08,413 --> 00:58:10,853
Speaker 2: away the crusaders best player. So it wasn't as though

1135
00:58:10,893 --> 00:58:15,013
Speaker 2: he wasn't hard. It's fair, but he was good. Rugby

1136
00:58:15,173 --> 00:58:17,213
Speaker 2: was so like it's not as though he's.

1137
00:58:17,973 --> 00:58:21,253
Speaker 5: And performed well against England initially but then tailed off.

1138
00:58:21,293 --> 00:58:25,373
Speaker 2: That's right right into our board in a state of flux,

1139
00:58:25,653 --> 00:58:29,333
Speaker 2: expecting some news on that front in our Rugby direct

1140
00:58:29,373 --> 00:58:34,093
Speaker 2: off season. I guess Liam, there's some names being bandied about.

1141
00:58:34,813 --> 00:58:36,613
Speaker 2: What are you hearing and who would you like to

1142
00:58:36,613 --> 00:58:39,293
Speaker 2: see on the border. Is there a dream appointments beyond

1143
00:58:39,293 --> 00:58:40,293
Speaker 2: one of us two that you'd like.

1144
00:58:40,293 --> 00:58:41,013
Speaker 3: To sell the board?

1145
00:58:41,373 --> 00:58:42,293
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1146
00:58:42,333 --> 00:58:45,293
Speaker 4: My application didn't make it past his first reading, so

1147
00:58:45,693 --> 00:58:46,173
Speaker 4: tough to say.

1148
00:58:46,493 --> 00:58:46,693
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1149
00:58:46,773 --> 00:58:48,213
Speaker 5: I thought I had some friends.

1150
00:58:47,853 --> 00:58:50,613
Speaker 3: But Christmas re cardless.

1151
00:58:51,653 --> 00:58:53,653
Speaker 4: It's going to be a very interesting nine person board.

1152
00:58:54,013 --> 00:58:56,333
Speaker 4: A how many of the existing board members come back

1153
00:58:56,373 --> 00:59:01,253
Speaker 4: and there has been a lot of whispers about people applying.

1154
00:59:01,333 --> 00:59:04,813
Speaker 4: Greg Barclay was one. I did a story about having

1155
00:59:04,813 --> 00:59:09,053
Speaker 4: the former ICC chairman, not sure if he he necessarily

1156
00:59:09,093 --> 00:59:13,173
Speaker 4: ticks enough boxes because there's very stringent criteria about having

1157
00:59:13,773 --> 00:59:19,133
Speaker 4: served on a provincial you know board or in governance

1158
00:59:19,213 --> 00:59:27,333
Speaker 4: and stipulations around diversity, whether it's Maldi, Pacifica or gender.

1159
00:59:28,173 --> 00:59:31,533
Speaker 4: So it is a hard board to appoints on merit.

1160
00:59:33,093 --> 00:59:38,573
Speaker 4: There's other names, Yeah, there's other names. David Kirk, former

1161
00:59:38,853 --> 00:59:42,653
Speaker 4: World Cup winning captain minusnez he might have pulled out,

1162
00:59:42,733 --> 00:59:45,733
Speaker 4: but was in the mix. Taine Randall was another who applied,

1163
00:59:46,333 --> 00:59:49,693
Speaker 4: and there's a few whispers about former police boss Andrew

1164
00:59:49,733 --> 00:59:54,933
Speaker 4: Costa Soles Costa and Nathan Guy was another one. Former

1165
00:59:55,053 --> 00:59:59,573
Speaker 4: national MP. So a real cross section of New Zealand society,

1166
00:59:59,693 --> 01:00:02,653
Speaker 4: so interesting to see how that shakes down. And of

1167
01:00:02,653 --> 01:00:08,453
Speaker 4: course COMCO, the separate board responsible for all of New

1168
01:00:08,573 --> 01:00:12,133
Speaker 4: Zealand rugby's revenue. They need a new boss with Craig

1169
01:00:12,173 --> 01:00:14,893
Speaker 4: Fenton exiting as well, so some big appointments in the works.

1170
01:00:14,973 --> 01:00:15,693
Speaker 5: Venezella Rugby.

1171
01:00:15,773 --> 01:00:19,573
Speaker 2: Yeah, watched the space over summer and finally Liam balance

1172
01:00:19,613 --> 01:00:22,973
Speaker 2: of power where does it lie twelve months or thereabouts

1173
01:00:23,013 --> 01:00:24,973
Speaker 2: on from the Rugby World Cup in the North or

1174
01:00:25,013 --> 01:00:25,533
Speaker 2: in the South.

1175
01:00:26,413 --> 01:00:30,213
Speaker 4: No offence citting here, Earliott. It's marginally in the South.

1176
01:00:30,813 --> 01:00:32,453
Speaker 4: The spring Boks and World champions and the other the

1177
01:00:32,493 --> 01:00:34,973
Speaker 4: best team in the world by a long way. Argentina

1178
01:00:35,053 --> 01:00:38,573
Speaker 4: were the big movers this year. Slightly disappointing India tour

1179
01:00:38,613 --> 01:00:41,373
Speaker 4: for them that they did push Islands, but they were

1180
01:00:41,413 --> 01:00:44,133
Speaker 4: They were underwhelming against France and I think the All

1181
01:00:44,173 --> 01:00:46,453
Speaker 4: Blacks have a lot of improvement left in them. The

1182
01:00:46,493 --> 01:00:49,613
Speaker 4: Wallabies were up and down, but on the rise. I

1183
01:00:49,653 --> 01:00:56,133
Speaker 4: think Islands are declining. England's are in a bit of

1184
01:00:56,133 --> 01:00:58,693
Speaker 4: a state of flux. They lost Felix Jones and their

1185
01:00:58,693 --> 01:01:01,933
Speaker 4: coaching team. Big out for them. France very good at home.

1186
01:01:02,893 --> 01:01:05,733
Speaker 4: Question marks about them traveling because they just send second

1187
01:01:05,773 --> 01:01:09,613
Speaker 4: string teams away in July. So I think the South

1188
01:01:09,693 --> 01:01:10,133
Speaker 4: edge is it.

1189
01:01:10,413 --> 01:01:13,413
Speaker 2: I do think it's South comfortably, to be honest, South

1190
01:01:13,453 --> 01:01:16,733
Speaker 2: Africa tick number one in the world by some way.

1191
01:01:16,813 --> 01:01:20,253
Speaker 2: Australia on the rise, the All Blacks begin of year tour.

1192
01:01:20,373 --> 01:01:27,013
Speaker 2: As we've discussed England down, Ireland stagnated, Scotland up, France up.

1193
01:01:28,173 --> 01:01:34,053
Speaker 2: Wales's basically a Tier two nation so and then you go.

1194
01:01:34,093 --> 01:01:37,013
Speaker 2: Brett Robinson is also the world rugby cheer. So it's

1195
01:01:37,013 --> 01:01:39,573
Speaker 2: been a great last couple of months of the South. Yeah,

1196
01:01:39,693 --> 01:01:42,253
Speaker 2: bring it home, bring it home. Well, speaking of the South.

1197
01:01:42,293 --> 01:01:45,173
Speaker 2: That is time for summer in the Southern Hemisphere and

1198
01:01:45,213 --> 01:01:48,493
Speaker 2: time for summer for Rugby Direct. Our final podcast of

1199
01:01:48,533 --> 01:01:51,093
Speaker 2: the year, Liam, it's been a pleasure as always. I

1200
01:01:51,093 --> 01:01:54,933
Speaker 2: think we've moted through about forty plus episodes this year.

1201
01:01:54,973 --> 01:01:57,493
Speaker 2: Some highlights from the year. Really enjoyed our chat with

1202
01:01:57,493 --> 01:02:00,133
Speaker 2: Aaron Smith. If you're at a loss over summer and

1203
01:02:00,293 --> 01:02:02,093
Speaker 2: haven't listened to that one high they recommend going back

1204
01:02:02,133 --> 01:02:04,973
Speaker 2: and listening to that podcast of Aaron Smith roughly middle

1205
01:02:05,013 --> 01:02:06,853
Speaker 2: of the year. I think we spoke to him, enjoyed

1206
01:02:06,853 --> 01:02:09,733
Speaker 2: that one. It's been another year for Rugby Direct.

1207
01:02:09,613 --> 01:02:13,893
Speaker 4: Has indeed, it's been good times, good debates, and next

1208
01:02:13,933 --> 01:02:16,893
Speaker 4: year I think we're looking at getting maybe an email or.

1209
01:02:17,213 --> 01:02:19,213
Speaker 3: You're moving into the twenty fifth century, we're going to

1210
01:02:19,213 --> 01:02:20,133
Speaker 3: get an email.

1211
01:02:20,573 --> 01:02:23,053
Speaker 4: Something for you to come at us, give us some feedback,

1212
01:02:24,173 --> 01:02:27,653
Speaker 4: you know, get aggressive, whatever whatever that may be.

1213
01:02:28,253 --> 01:02:31,213
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening. We appreciate all the feedback.

1214
01:02:31,733 --> 01:02:34,893
Speaker 4: And Elliott's informed me he has got his beginning line

1215
01:02:34,933 --> 01:02:37,973
Speaker 4: trim for summer, so I'll try and supply a photo

1216
01:02:38,493 --> 01:02:41,213
Speaker 4: to keep you entertained before our next pod.

1217
01:02:41,213 --> 01:02:44,813
Speaker 3: Trimmed and ready to go. What's it? Backsack and crack.

1218
01:02:44,893 --> 01:02:46,533
Speaker 3: That's good to god.

1219
01:02:46,933 --> 01:02:48,173
Speaker 5: You beautiful momentary.

1220
01:02:48,253 --> 01:02:50,013
Speaker 3: We'll leave you with that average over summer. Thank you

1221
01:02:50,093 --> 01:02:50,373
Speaker 3: very much.

1222
01:02:50,373 --> 01:02:53,013
Speaker 2: We look forward to your company again in February. Big

1223
01:02:53,013 --> 01:02:54,773
Speaker 2: thanks as well to our producer Last and Bars English.

1224
01:02:54,813 --> 01:02:58,533
Speaker 2: We're producing this podcast right from February through to December.

1225
01:02:58,813 --> 01:03:00,133
Speaker 3: We will see you again next year.

1226
01:03:04,373 --> 01:03:07,293
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks B listen live on air

1227
01:03:07,493 --> 01:03:10,213
Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you

1228
01:03:10,293 --> 01:03:12,693
Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio