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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talks B. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of now the Layton Smith

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Speaker 1: Podcast powered by news talks it B.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Podcasts three hundred and three. So this is

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Speaker 2: Wednesday morning, September twenty four, and there is plenty of

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Speaker 2: change in the wind. American President Donald Trump overnight addressed

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Speaker 2: the United Nations and he performed this as always open

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Speaker 2: to the point, laying it on the line without fear

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Speaker 2: and giving the UN and the EU and others what

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Speaker 2: they deserve. But do you see that it does have

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Speaker 2: plenty to absorb with the government commentary and announcements due today,

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Speaker 2: if not already made on the Reserve Bank's new head,

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Speaker 2: immigration and some other important matters. And there is plenty

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Speaker 2: of advice coming from numerous quarters, including ENZED CPRS, the

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Speaker 2: New Zealand Seter for Political Research ENZED CPRS, Dodtor Muriel Newman,

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Speaker 2: who guests on Podcasts three three. Shortly, but first there

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Speaker 2: is another matter, an area of interest that I want

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Speaker 2: to cover, the founder of the Brownstone Institute. Jeffrey Tucker

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Speaker 2: published an opinion piece this morning by The Epic Times

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Speaker 2: that it's relevant to all of us. I've inspired to

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Speaker 2: share some of it after hearing commentary on American media,

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Speaker 2: commentary from the worst prime minister this country has ever

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Speaker 2: experienced or had to tolerate. I'll leave it to you

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Speaker 2: to decide on its relevance. So Jeffrey Tucker wrote, this

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Speaker 2: is how science works. Science is an area that's constantly

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Speaker 2: confronted with abuse from quarters that utilize it for less

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Speaker 2: than honest use. Here is how he started. The second

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Speaker 2: meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices was a

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Speaker 2: wild and woody wonder to behold. Scientists took on industry.

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Speaker 2: Industry fought back. Agencies spoke out. Sometimes the accused fell silent.

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Speaker 2: They dug into data, They made claims and counterclaims. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: the scientists fought with each other in real time for

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Speaker 2: all the world to see. Media reports described a scene

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Speaker 2: as chaos without precedent. Maybe so they were in shock

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Speaker 2: that such a thing was unfolding in real time, live

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Speaker 2: streamed and accessible from every device. We are blessed to

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Speaker 2: see it. Why, because this is how science actually works.

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Speaker 2: It requires debate, open sourced data, discussion of studies with

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Speaker 2: strengths and weaknesses by people who have mastery of the

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Speaker 2: subject matter. As it turns out, the experts do not agree.

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Speaker 2: For years now, public life has been about asserting that

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Speaker 2: science is one thing. Very often we've heard about the

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Speaker 2: scientific consensus, or the settled science, or the sole source

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Speaker 2: of truth. Exactly who defined that? Usually the consensus was

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Speaker 2: defined by industry. It could be the climate change industry,

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Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical industry, the financial industry, and so on. The

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Speaker 2: many people who resisted the COVID response were called anti science.

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Speaker 2: It took Anthony Fauci to explain precisely what it meant

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Speaker 2: it meant disagreeing with him. The biggest players have defined

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Speaker 2: what constitutes science. Debate, if it occurred at all, has

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Speaker 2: always been outside public purview. The rest of us have

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Speaker 2: been condemned only to accept the results of the experts.

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Speaker 2: Dissenting voices have been silenced, excluded from publishing in journals,

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Speaker 2: kicked out of professions, mocked and ridiculed for not holding

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Speaker 2: the right views. For five years, this has gone on

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Speaker 2: in the world of immunology and pertaining to vaccines in particular,

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Speaker 2: the science has been reduced to slogans. Safe and effective

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Speaker 2: has been the preferred incantation. Anyone who questioned either word,

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Speaker 2: or even added a caveat was treading on thin ice.

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Speaker 2: Outright dissent was punished. In other words, science had come

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Speaker 2: to mean the opposite of what Renee des Cartes had

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Speaker 2: to say. He wrote, the first rule was never to

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Speaker 2: accept anything as true unless I recognized it to be

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Speaker 2: evidently such, that is, carefully to avoid precipitation and prejudgment,

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Speaker 2: and to include nothing in my conclusions unless it presented

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Speaker 2: itself so clearly and distinctly to my mind that I

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Speaker 2: had no occasion to doubt it. This statement, from sixteen

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Speaker 2: thirty seven was considered the foundation of Enlightenment ideas on science.

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Speaker 2: The world came gradually to shred that view. The experts decided,

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Speaker 2: and the job of the rest of us was to

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Speaker 2: accept it. The second ACIP meetingdled what real science looks like.

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Speaker 2: The industry that made the COVID shots was there to

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Speaker 2: defend itself. This is where it gets interesting. Doctor Robert

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Speaker 2: Malone at some point became fed up with the constant

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Speaker 2: claims that the shots provide protection without identifying any corollary

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Speaker 2: end points. Finally, he challenged them directly, what are the

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Speaker 2: corrective protections for the shots? He waited, There was no answer,

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Speaker 2: so he said it. There is no established correlative protection

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Speaker 2: for COVID period, full stop and stop saying otherwise. WHOA

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Speaker 2: comments Tugger. At another point, he said the industry had

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Speaker 2: edited both data and images they submitted to the FDA.

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Speaker 2: That's the fruit Food and Drug Administration. This pertains to

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Speaker 2: where the potion goes in the body. We heard over

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Speaker 2: and over that the shot stays in the arm, but

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Speaker 2: that has proven over and over to be wrong. It

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Speaker 2: goes every whey where, crossing even the blood brain barrier,

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Speaker 2: and pervading all internal organs. The industry refused to respond

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Speaker 2: to the accusation. On another occasion, Chairman Martin Kohldorf congratulated

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Speaker 2: Peizer for running a randomized controlled trial for expected mothers,

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Speaker 2: even if it was a limited trial, but he noted

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Speaker 2: that the documentation revealed a fourfold increase in birth defects

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Speaker 2: following injection with the product. The industry spokesperson at first

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Speaker 2: deflected and then ultimately fell silent when confronted with evidence

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Speaker 2: from their own trial data. By the way, Martin Coldorff

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Speaker 2: was on the podcast back when. Now there is more

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Speaker 2: that let's just cut to the last short paragraph. So

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Speaker 2: much needs to be fixed about the system as it stands.

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Speaker 2: The process has just begun. We could expect much in

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Speaker 2: the way of protests, screams and objections, and that's just fine.

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Speaker 2: We're going to win this with the evidence, the doctrine.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what this new committee is showing us. If

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Speaker 2: it's shocking, this is only because it has been so

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Speaker 2: long since we've been exposed to the scientific process. It's

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Speaker 2: a brilliant column, brilliant commentary, and it should be taken

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Speaker 2: on board by politicians and advisors and the medical profession

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Speaker 2: in this country. Will it be I don't know. Now

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Speaker 2: I've taken up much more time than I intended before

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Speaker 2: we got to Muriel Newman, but she will be here

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Speaker 2: in just a moment after a short break. Leverix is

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Speaker 2: an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. Leverix

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Speaker 2: relieves hay fever and skin allergies or itchy skin. It's

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Speaker 2: a dual action antihistamine and has a unique nasal decongestent action.

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Speaker 2: It's fast acting for fast relief and it works in

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Speaker 2: under an hour and lasts for over twenty four hours.

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Speaker 2: Leveris is a tiny tablet that unblocks the nose, deals

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Speaker 2: with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. Leverris is an antihistamine

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Speaker 2: made in Switzerland to the highest quality. So next time

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Speaker 2: you're in need of an effective antihistamine, call into the

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Speaker 2: pharmacy and ask for Leverix lv Rix Leverix and always

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Speaker 2: read the label. Takes directed and if symptoms persist, see

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Speaker 2: your health professional. Farmer Broker Auckland. The doctor Muriel Newman

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Speaker 2: established the New Zealand Center for Political Research as a

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Speaker 2: public policy think tank in two thousand and five. Now

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Speaker 2: that followed nine in parliament as a member of the

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Speaker 2: Act Party. She's a former Chamber of Commerce president. Her

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Speaker 2: background is in business and education. She has multiple degrees

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Speaker 2: in mathematics and other unlikely things I think I'd say.

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Speaker 2: And she has been on this podcast on a number

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Speaker 2: of occasions and there's always a very good and very

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Speaker 2: strong reaction to her appearance. Muriel, it's great to have

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Speaker 2: you back, although what we're going to talk about isn't

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Speaker 2: so great. Are you well, yes, very well.

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Speaker 3: Lason and thank you very much for inviting me on.

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Speaker 3: Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it is a pleasure. I want to start with

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Speaker 2: making reference to something that you published back in January

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Speaker 2: State of the Nation twenty twenty five. Freedom, democracy, and

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Speaker 2: the rule of law are the cornerstone of a modern society.

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Speaker 2: So let's start twenty twenty five with a quick stock

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Speaker 2: take on how well these foundations are being defended. First

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Speaker 2: of all, it's important to remind ourselves that the Coalition

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Speaker 2: was elected on the promise of reversing Labour's destructive policy

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Speaker 2: agenda that was undermining all three pillars of our society.

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Speaker 2: And then you went into a bit of detail. Under Labour,

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Speaker 2: freedom was under threat as never before, like an authoritarian dictator.

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Speaker 2: The former Prime Minister Disinda A Dern used the pandemic

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Speaker 2: to declare that she was the single source of truth.

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Speaker 2: Anyone opposing her views not only risked being canceled, but

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Speaker 2: could end up with the police knocking on their door.

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Speaker 2: And so it goes. And we were all familiar with that.

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Speaker 2: Of course. The only place that it may have been

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Speaker 2: worse was in Victoria. Now in September you've written the

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Speaker 2: column Losing Trust on the NZCPR site. The latest polls

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Speaker 2: show the coalition is failing to capture the hearts and

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Speaker 2: minds of voters. Roy Morgan tells the story. Support for

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Speaker 2: National was down two percentage points from a month ago

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Speaker 2: to twenty nine percent, was unchanged on ten point five

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Speaker 2: and New Zealand first dropped two point five to seven.

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Speaker 2: Now the comparison was Labor increased three to thirty four,

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Speaker 2: the Greens were up two to thirteen point five, while

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Speaker 2: the Mary Party dropped one to two point five. In

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Speaker 2: other words, if the election was held tomorrow, Labor, the

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Speaker 2: Greens and the Mary Party would be in government with

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Speaker 2: fifty percent of the vote up four What's changed in

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Speaker 2: the time between January and September when those two articles

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Speaker 2: were published. What's changed? What's what's worsened, because obviously it's

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Speaker 2: not got better.

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Speaker 4: I think what's happened is that.

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Speaker 3: The government came in with a lot of promises, right,

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Speaker 3: and they had a lot of plans of action, you know,

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Speaker 3: one hundred day action plan here and thirty day action

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Speaker 3: plan there and so on, and so it was all go, go,

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Speaker 3: go go, and the promise throughout it all was that

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Speaker 3: they were going to kickstart economic growth. They were going

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Speaker 3: to undo the bad stuff that labor had done and

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Speaker 3: the country was going to be.

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Speaker 4: Better off for it. And we all cheered them.

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Speaker 3: On, really because you know, that's what the majority of

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Speaker 3: New Zealanders wanted. That's why we changed the government. But

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Speaker 3: the problem is that none of what they've said they

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Speaker 3: were going to do has actually panned out in the

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Speaker 3: way that probably the majority of voters thought. So when

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Speaker 3: they said things like they were going to stop hpur

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Speaker 3: poor right, which was that horrible labor agenda to get

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Speaker 3: rid of democracy and replace it with tribal control illegitimately, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we thought that it actually meant that it would stop

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Speaker 3: and blow me down.

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Speaker 4: It hasn't stopped at all.

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Speaker 3: It's probably worse now than it was back then because

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Speaker 3: a lot of the stuff that labor put in place

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Speaker 3: had a long gestation period and it's now starting to

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Speaker 3: spring and show leaves and flower and progress, and so

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Speaker 3: you know, a lot of people were very worried about that,

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Speaker 3: and that's a sleeper issue in New Zealand, and so

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Speaker 3: they remain worried about it and say, why the hell

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Speaker 3: isn't national doing more to stop all this stuff?

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Speaker 4: And then there was the economy.

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Speaker 3: You know, the big promises that you know, tax cuts

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Speaker 3: would kickstart the economy, and most of us were probably

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Speaker 3: right behind that move by the government that they'd get

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Speaker 3: rid of regulation, that they'd cut government spending, all this

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Speaker 3: stuff and blow me down. They've been too timid a

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Speaker 3: lot of the it's for example, the public service, right,

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Speaker 3: it was forty nine thousand people in twenty seventeen when

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Speaker 3: Labor first became the government, when they left, it had

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Speaker 3: blown out to sixty five thousand. And given the whole

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Speaker 3: emphasis on the woke agenda identity politics, you know, diversity, inclusion, equity,

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Speaker 3: all that stuff, a lot of those new hires would

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Speaker 3: have been activists put in place to help to drive

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Speaker 3: the agenda from within. And instead of getting rid of them,

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Speaker 3: instead of you know, peering back the numbers back to

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Speaker 3: what it was in twenty seventeen, virtually all of them

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Speaker 3: are still there. And so, you know, and that's one

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Speaker 3: point five billion dollars a year just in wages, and

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Speaker 3: you think to yourself, well, you know, if the government

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Speaker 3: was really serious about cutting spending and getting the country

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Speaker 3: back on track, wouldn't that be the first area that

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Speaker 3: you'd go to and wouldn't you do a line by

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Speaker 3: line review of all government policy and all government legislation

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Speaker 3: to see what could be cut to get the economy

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Speaker 3: going again and get rid of all this stuff that's

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Speaker 3: holding the country back.

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Speaker 2: We lay something before you. They made a big fuss

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Speaker 2: about it. It was part of the campaign. And because

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Speaker 2: it's not something that's in the headlines every day, not

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Speaker 2: something that reflects in people's lives on an ongoing basis,

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Speaker 2: most people, I would think, have thought that that was

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Speaker 2: underway and it was what was taking place, and they

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Speaker 2: were making adjustments. Why is it then that we collectively

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Speaker 2: seem to be unaware of it.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think that it is true that there is

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Speaker 3: some push back in some of these areas. Right, So

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Speaker 3: you've got to remember how complicated legislation and regulation actually is,

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Speaker 3: and when stuff is embedded, it's very difficult to unimbed.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean, It's difficult to get rid

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 3: And so there were it will be loads and loads

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Speaker 3: of policy ideas that are being progressed, but instead of

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Speaker 3: happening tomorrow or next week or next month, it'll be

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Speaker 3: six or nine.

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Speaker 4: Months down the track.

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Speaker 3: So I think that there's a lot of stuff underway,

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Speaker 3: like I just saw, for example that the Inland Revenue

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Speaker 3: Department are disestablishing their Tari Ti Maori unit right now

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Speaker 3: that would have been put in under Desindra a Dern

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Speaker 3: And this whole thrust to get the treaty into everything

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Speaker 3: to change government departments from within, and so obviously the

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Speaker 3: IRD has wanted to get rid of it. But the

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Speaker 3: process of getting rid of people and you know, an

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Speaker 3: agency within your own department is not that easy and

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Speaker 3: so it's obviously taken them.

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Speaker 4: You know, two years or most to.

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Speaker 3: Get to the point where they can actually announce that

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Speaker 3: it's changing, all right.

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Speaker 2: So the problem cast your mind back. You're a politician.

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Speaker 2: You're a politician for nine years, but you've been into

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Speaker 2: politics for much longer. So during that period that when

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Speaker 2: you were in Parliament or any other period that you

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Speaker 2: wish to choose, was it ever different with changing policies.

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Speaker 3: I think things were done more quickly back then. I

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Speaker 3: think how it was probably to do with the fact

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Speaker 3: that right now, you know, if a minister wanted to

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Speaker 3: change something, he would probably be told hang on a minute.

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Speaker 3: You know you've got to worry about the employment. You know,

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Speaker 3: employment issues. You've got to worry about risk and safety issues.

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Speaker 4: There's probably a.

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Speaker 3: Myriad of complex, more complex factors to have to consider now,

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Speaker 3: because what we're going back, you know, twenty years, and

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Speaker 3: so there will have been untold regulations that have been

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Speaker 3: built up over those years. And so now you know,

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Speaker 3: the on off button is now buried beneath layers and.

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Speaker 4: Layers of other stuff.

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Speaker 3: So you've got to uncover, you've got to undo all

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Speaker 3: that other stuff to be able to get to the

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Speaker 3: actual button, is what I'm trying to say. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's the trouble. And also I think people.

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Speaker 4: Are much more risk averse.

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Speaker 3: They're really worried if it's anything to do with race,

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Speaker 3: are absolutely petrified of being called a racist if they

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Speaker 3: want to disestablish a position that somebody who's married descent holds.

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Speaker 3: And so, you know, it's all those things have made

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Speaker 3: and also the media, the media these days are really

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Speaker 3: happy to find any mistake that they can amplify that

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Speaker 3: the government might be making and turn it into a

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Speaker 3: major scandal and so and the opposition, of course, are

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Speaker 3: onto that, but they've always been onto that. So I

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Speaker 3: don't think that's changed, but I think the way it's

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Speaker 3: been reported has changed.

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Speaker 2: Is there a lack of courage?

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Speaker 4: I think that probably is a lack of courage.

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Speaker 3: And I think there in fact there it's definitely a

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Speaker 3: lack of courage. But I'm just trying to think back

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Speaker 3: to whether it means the politicians at you know, at

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Speaker 3: the time also were they more courageous back then than.

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Speaker 4: These guys or was it all these.

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Speaker 3: Other factors like it, or has the courage been the same,

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Speaker 3: But there's a whole lot of other factors to consider now.

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Speaker 3: I think, to be honest, I think that National does

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Speaker 3: lack courage, and I think in comparison, I think act

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Speaker 3: in New Zealand first have shown courage, and I think

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Speaker 3: that the lack of courage by National is a real

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Speaker 3: weakness that makes them.

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Speaker 4: Vulnerable in the future.

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Speaker 3: If New Zealand suddenly gets the charismatic Reform Party going,

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Speaker 3: they would get wiped out like the Conservatives are in

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Speaker 3: England because of that lack of courage. And if I

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Speaker 3: was them, because politics hates a vacuum, if I was them,

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Speaker 3: I would be doing something about that.

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Speaker 2: Now, courage doesn't come automatically, you can't switch it on.

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Speaker 2: It's something that you were either bored with or you've

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Speaker 2: developed during your life, and that lack of ability to

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Speaker 2: adjust to it is a damning thing, I believe. Is

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Speaker 2: it also because under an MMP things are considerably different

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Speaker 2: to First Pass the Post. I wasn't in favor of MMP.

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Speaker 2: I was totally against it for reasons. A week and

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Speaker 2: we do discuss and could discuss forever. But I'd go

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Speaker 2: back to first past the Post now, which wasn't which

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Speaker 2: wasn't my preference I was. I was very much in

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Speaker 2: favor of the Australian position, But I'd go back to

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Speaker 2: first past the Post very happily.

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Speaker 3: I think I would too, and I think, to be honest,

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Speaker 3: if do you remember when MMP came in they promised

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Speaker 3: us a review.

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Speaker 4: I think it was.

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Speaker 3: After ten years, and when the review happened, they gerry

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Speaker 3: manded it in such a way that we could no

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Speaker 3: longer say we wanted first past the Post back. And

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Speaker 3: I think that was that was an absolute scandal.

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Speaker 2: How did they remind me? How did they gerrymander it?

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Speaker 3: What they did was that they they altered the questions.

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Speaker 3: They didn't just say would you like to have MMP

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Speaker 3: or first past the Post? They introduced some other versions

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Speaker 3: of first past the post from memory. Now I'm scratching

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Speaker 3: my memory banks too. But so the question wasn't what

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Speaker 3: we all wanted. It was a question that meant that

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Speaker 3: MMP was going to win again. And so they shifted

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Speaker 3: the debate. In other words, they didn't allow us to

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Speaker 3: have the debate we wanted, but they shifted.

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Speaker 4: It and they gave us all this justification and everything else.

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Speaker 3: And you were a lone voice in the wilderness saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: we wanted to, you know, test it against MMP because

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Speaker 3: that train had sort of they made sure the train

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Speaker 3: moved on.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, so that was really bad because.

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Speaker 3: I think by then a lot of people were really

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Speaker 3: starting to see the danger of MMP, which is, you

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Speaker 3: know clearly that you end up if you just have

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Speaker 3: to look at the lineup on the guys on the

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Speaker 3: other side, you know, Labor, the Greens, and the Maori Party,

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Speaker 3: and that tells you everything there is to know about

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Speaker 3: the dangers of MP with radical elements getting into Parliament

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Speaker 3: and being able to disrupt and destroy democracy from within.

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Speaker 2: So let me suggest to you that there is a

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Speaker 2: worldwide When I say worldwide, i'm talking about the Anglo

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Speaker 2: speaking and Anglo based countries with the democracies, or as

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Speaker 2: somebody corrected me the other day and said, liberal democracies

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Speaker 2: are concerned. I want to quote you a few lines

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Speaker 2: from something that Roger Partridge right just a few days ago,

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Speaker 2: called an open society requires constant vigilance. Who is responsible

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Speaker 2: for defending liberal democracy when its norms come under attack?

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Speaker 2: Karl Popper, writing as fascist army swept Europe. I've understood

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Speaker 2: this was not an abstract question. Papa champion societies that

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Speaker 2: were fundamentally open, sustained by critical inquiry and peaceful disagreement

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Speaker 2: rather than imposed unity. But Papa grasped the paradox openness

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Speaker 2: could only survive if actively defended against those who would

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Speaker 2: exploit its openness to destroy it. Do you think that

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Speaker 2: we have those people in positions of power and authority

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand? Now?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I do.

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Speaker 3: I think that democracy in New Zealand is under threat,

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Speaker 3: and I don't think that as a society we do

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Speaker 3: nearly enough to sustain it and to promote it. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's like at the moment, you know, if anyone speaks

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Speaker 3: out in a way that the left doesn't lie, they

377
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Speaker 3: will be attacked. If they're in a position of employment,

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Speaker 3: their employment might be threatened. You know, it's very vicious

379
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Speaker 3: and very nasty to silence any voices that they don't

380
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Speaker 3: want the public to hear. And on our side, on

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Speaker 3: the sort of side of the center, right, we've got

382
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Speaker 3: this sort of quaint view that you know, everyone should

383
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Speaker 3: have the right to speak out, no matter how outrageous

384
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Speaker 3: their voices are. And sure we'll you know, defend our

385
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Speaker 3: side of the debate in a normally in a sort

386
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Speaker 3: of you know, reasonably sensible way, like we don't we

387
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Speaker 3: won't go to the lengths that the other side do

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Speaker 3: to silence those people. And you know, I think what

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00:26:05,933 --> 00:26:11,213
Speaker 3: we're seeing now though, is that the actual importance of

390
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Speaker 3: things like democracy are being lost because it's not being

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Speaker 3: reinforced enough the you know, I mean, it's fundamental.

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Speaker 4: Right to what we are as a country.

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Speaker 3: And yet you know the number of people who probably.

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Speaker 4: Side with again, if I come back to the Mari

395
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Speaker 4: sovereignty movement.

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Speaker 3: You know, their view of ruling is our.

397
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Speaker 4: Way or no way. You know, it's totalitarian.

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Speaker 3: And in those areas where they were trying to get

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Speaker 3: co governance, you know, which was in as we know,

400
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Speaker 3: in Three Waters and the Mari Health authority ruling our

401
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Speaker 3: health system. It took no time at all before healthcare

402
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Speaker 3: was based on race instead of based on clinical need.

403
00:27:03,773 --> 00:27:06,933
Speaker 3: And when you try and speak out about it, you're

404
00:27:06,933 --> 00:27:11,413
Speaker 3: called a racist. So your democratic rights are taken away

405
00:27:11,653 --> 00:27:14,973
Speaker 3: under your nose if you're not careful and if you

406
00:27:15,093 --> 00:27:19,173
Speaker 3: don't fight against those people who want to undermine and

407
00:27:19,253 --> 00:27:23,453
Speaker 3: destroy your democracy. And that's the trouble. We haven't been

408
00:27:23,533 --> 00:27:27,373
Speaker 3: fighting that fight. We've allowed it to just carry on.

409
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Speaker 3: We haven't seen the need to do that in New Zealand.

410
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Speaker 3: And yet it's right there staring us in the face.

411
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Speaker 2: Well, it's been building over a period of time, and

412
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Speaker 2: it's again a lack of courage. I'll tell you what

413
00:27:41,213 --> 00:27:45,413
Speaker 2: concerns me, just a little side issue, the number of

414
00:27:45,573 --> 00:27:51,093
Speaker 2: people leaving this country who are well qualified or talented

415
00:27:51,733 --> 00:27:54,013
Speaker 2: or will be sometime in the future depending on age

416
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Speaker 2: and experience. They're leaving because they don't see a future here,

417
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Speaker 2: or they don't like what they see as far as

418
00:28:02,333 --> 00:28:05,733
Speaker 2: they can see it. The situation in Australia, of course,

419
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Speaker 2: is that Australia is in diastrates itself, arguably in many cases,

420
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Speaker 2: just as bad as we are, except that we all

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00:28:15,773 --> 00:28:19,573
Speaker 2: know that Australia comes out stronger in the end, although

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Speaker 2: on this particular occasion, I'm not sure that's going to apply.

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Speaker 3: What do you say, Look, I think you're right. People

424
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Speaker 3: are voting with their feet. They're fed up in New Zealand.

425
00:28:29,133 --> 00:28:34,413
Speaker 3: They can't see the coalition making the gains or changes

426
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Speaker 3: that they'd hoped for. All they see is things getting worse.

427
00:28:39,293 --> 00:28:42,613
Speaker 3: And of course the specter of a change in government

428
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Speaker 3: is enough to drive most people out of the country,

429
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Speaker 3: and so yes they are going. And with Australia. I

430
00:28:50,613 --> 00:28:53,933
Speaker 3: think that no matter how bad things might be there,

431
00:28:54,973 --> 00:28:59,213
Speaker 3: the view that you get of Australia from New Zealand

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Speaker 3: is that it is a land of opportunity.

433
00:29:02,093 --> 00:29:04,253
Speaker 4: You know, higher wages, greater.

434
00:29:05,093 --> 00:29:09,853
Speaker 3: Chances for employment and housing. You know, it's it's seen

435
00:29:09,933 --> 00:29:13,093
Speaker 3: as a mecca, isn't it for Kiwis who don't want

436
00:29:13,133 --> 00:29:19,533
Speaker 3: to look overseas further? So America may provide more opportunity,

437
00:29:19,693 --> 00:29:21,973
Speaker 3: but you know, that's a long way away here. At

438
00:29:22,053 --> 00:29:24,253
Speaker 3: least if they've got family in New Zealand, it's not

439
00:29:24,333 --> 00:29:27,053
Speaker 3: a big deal to go backwards and forwards.

440
00:29:27,133 --> 00:29:32,053
Speaker 2: So well, America is not providing a destination for too

441
00:29:32,093 --> 00:29:33,133
Speaker 2: many people at the moment.

442
00:29:33,813 --> 00:29:36,373
Speaker 3: No, No, well they they're seem to be in a

443
00:29:36,453 --> 00:29:39,733
Speaker 3: state of change as well, aren't they in some sort

444
00:29:39,773 --> 00:29:42,733
Speaker 3: of turmoil And it's not easy to see, you know,

445
00:29:42,813 --> 00:29:44,773
Speaker 3: how they're going to emerge from it either.

446
00:29:46,053 --> 00:29:47,133
Speaker 4: But again I think a.

447
00:29:47,093 --> 00:29:50,413
Speaker 3: Lot of it where we have media that colors our

448
00:29:50,493 --> 00:29:54,093
Speaker 3: view in New Zealand, so you know it may be

449
00:29:54,253 --> 00:29:56,693
Speaker 3: a lot better and lots of places over there than

450
00:29:56,773 --> 00:30:01,333
Speaker 3: we're really aware of. So I just want to sorry,

451
00:30:01,973 --> 00:30:04,213
Speaker 3: I was just going to say in the UK, of course,

452
00:30:04,293 --> 00:30:07,133
Speaker 3: you know we hear a lot about that and and

453
00:30:07,253 --> 00:30:12,373
Speaker 3: things a looking rather poor there as well. So yeah,

454
00:30:12,413 --> 00:30:14,933
Speaker 3: it's not just New Zealand, is it.

455
00:30:14,053 --> 00:30:16,533
Speaker 4: It's a lot of countries.

456
00:30:16,653 --> 00:30:21,053
Speaker 2: Well, now is an appropriate time to ask your opinion

457
00:30:21,253 --> 00:30:26,053
Speaker 2: on the immigration policy that we operate under at the

458
00:30:26,093 --> 00:30:29,333
Speaker 2: moment and whether or not it's adequate.

459
00:30:30,013 --> 00:30:34,173
Speaker 3: Look, I think that you know, in New Zealand, immigration

460
00:30:34,533 --> 00:30:38,413
Speaker 3: has always been seen as the way number one to

461
00:30:38,453 --> 00:30:41,573
Speaker 3: bring in skilled labor if we haven't been able to

462
00:30:41,693 --> 00:30:46,493
Speaker 3: produce it ourselves and unskilled labor these days, and also

463
00:30:46,813 --> 00:30:49,653
Speaker 3: to sort of fill the gap so that if a

464
00:30:49,653 --> 00:30:53,253
Speaker 3: whole bunch of New Zealanders leave, what you don't want

465
00:30:53,373 --> 00:30:57,253
Speaker 3: is a sort of depopulation where houses sit empty and

466
00:30:57,413 --> 00:31:00,813
Speaker 3: you know, things decay, and so they've always seen it

467
00:31:00,853 --> 00:31:04,653
Speaker 3: as a way of maintaining a sort of balance of

468
00:31:04,693 --> 00:31:09,173
Speaker 3: population as well. In the old days, of course, they

469
00:31:09,173 --> 00:31:13,573
Speaker 3: were very careful about who they brought in. They wanted

470
00:31:13,653 --> 00:31:18,213
Speaker 3: to ensure that they would assimilate into our society. I

471
00:31:18,253 --> 00:31:22,653
Speaker 3: think over recent times that's not so fashionable that view,

472
00:31:23,413 --> 00:31:26,893
Speaker 3: and so you know, we've ended up in some years

473
00:31:27,173 --> 00:31:27,773
Speaker 3: they get the.

474
00:31:27,733 --> 00:31:29,053
Speaker 4: Numbers completely wrong.

475
00:31:30,173 --> 00:31:32,893
Speaker 3: So in some years they've ended up with a massive

476
00:31:33,093 --> 00:31:35,893
Speaker 3: number of people coming in and not so many leaving,

477
00:31:36,413 --> 00:31:39,333
Speaker 3: and that's put a squeeze on health and education and

478
00:31:39,413 --> 00:31:43,813
Speaker 3: housing and everything else. Yeah, so it seems to be

479
00:31:43,853 --> 00:31:46,933
Speaker 3: a bit of a hit or miss policy. I think

480
00:31:47,013 --> 00:31:49,133
Speaker 3: when it's running well, it's doing okay.

481
00:31:49,213 --> 00:31:50,373
Speaker 4: But when it's not.

482
00:31:52,773 --> 00:31:58,373
Speaker 2: In the piece dismantling separatism again, you being the author

483
00:31:59,173 --> 00:32:03,053
Speaker 2: back in mid August, you're right. In his nineteen eighty

484
00:32:03,053 --> 00:32:05,933
Speaker 2: five book Shadows Over New Zealand, the former communist to

485
00:32:05,973 --> 00:32:09,493
Speaker 2: Jeff MacDonald revealed how the Marrie Sop movement was using

486
00:32:10,053 --> 00:32:14,853
Speaker 2: Marxist strategies to gain power. And then you quote Marxists

487
00:32:14,893 --> 00:32:17,893
Speaker 2: understand the key to destabilizing New Zealand is to show

488
00:32:17,933 --> 00:32:21,293
Speaker 2: how badly Mary is treated. The big lie must be

489
00:32:21,373 --> 00:32:24,613
Speaker 2: built up until enough people believe it to enable the

490
00:32:24,693 --> 00:32:28,413
Speaker 2: damage to be done. There is no Mari oppression at all,

491
00:32:28,893 --> 00:32:31,933
Speaker 2: but that would not stop them from going ahead with

492
00:32:31,973 --> 00:32:36,293
Speaker 2: their propaganda. Facts or truths have no relevance to Marxism.

493
00:32:36,613 --> 00:32:40,333
Speaker 2: Well that's the truth. Anything can be said to help

494
00:32:40,373 --> 00:32:44,653
Speaker 2: create the conditions amenable to the collapse of society, however

495
00:32:44,693 --> 00:32:49,373
Speaker 2: absurd or grotesque the charges being made against white New Zealanders,

496
00:32:49,773 --> 00:32:53,173
Speaker 2: if they are not answered, they will be believed. And

497
00:32:53,293 --> 00:32:56,253
Speaker 2: you say, that's exactly how it played out. Over decades,

498
00:32:56,453 --> 00:33:00,333
Speaker 2: separatists have gained positions of power and influence through division

499
00:33:00,613 --> 00:33:03,293
Speaker 2: and deceit. How has it happened.

500
00:33:04,413 --> 00:33:08,053
Speaker 4: I think it's happened slowly to start with.

501
00:33:09,053 --> 00:33:14,093
Speaker 3: So at the very beginning what the Maori Sovereignty movement did.

502
00:33:14,173 --> 00:33:15,773
Speaker 4: And you've got to remember that they.

503
00:33:17,173 --> 00:33:21,053
Speaker 3: Gained a lot of their ideas from the Palestinian Liberation

504
00:33:21,253 --> 00:33:26,933
Speaker 3: Front during early visits to Cuba in the late seventies,

505
00:33:27,053 --> 00:33:32,413
Speaker 3: where they developed their strategy for bringing to establishing a

506
00:33:32,453 --> 00:33:37,213
Speaker 3: Maori nation state. That was their objective and Maori sovereignty

507
00:33:37,373 --> 00:33:42,253
Speaker 3: was the goal, and essentially that's not only governing the

508
00:33:42,293 --> 00:33:46,173
Speaker 3: country their way, but it's also taking all the land back.

509
00:33:46,373 --> 00:33:48,653
Speaker 4: That's one of their key policies.

510
00:33:49,293 --> 00:33:52,253
Speaker 3: And if you look at the Maori Party website you'll

511
00:33:52,333 --> 00:33:56,013
Speaker 3: see that. You know, the Maori Party policy is they

512
00:33:56,053 --> 00:34:01,373
Speaker 3: want all government land, all conservation land, all local government land,

513
00:34:01,853 --> 00:34:04,893
Speaker 3: and they want first right of refusal.

514
00:34:04,333 --> 00:34:05,853
Speaker 4: On all private land.

515
00:34:06,613 --> 00:34:10,133
Speaker 3: And so that is simply a tiny step from saying

516
00:34:10,173 --> 00:34:13,653
Speaker 3: they want back or private land as well. And so

517
00:34:13,853 --> 00:34:17,853
Speaker 3: that is the goal of this movement. And so what

518
00:34:17,893 --> 00:34:24,053
Speaker 3: they did was they established people in key positions throughout institutions.

519
00:34:24,533 --> 00:34:27,973
Speaker 3: One of those early leaders who went to Cuba is

520
00:34:28,133 --> 00:34:32,933
Speaker 3: now the deputy chairman of Television New Zealand. One of

521
00:34:33,573 --> 00:34:35,813
Speaker 3: the other one, one of the other ones was a

522
00:34:35,813 --> 00:34:38,853
Speaker 3: member of Parliament for many years and now the Maori

523
00:34:38,893 --> 00:34:43,693
Speaker 3: Climate Commissioner. I mean, you know, these people with radical

524
00:34:43,773 --> 00:34:51,333
Speaker 3: ideas have embedded themselves in New Zealand's infrastructure, you know framework,

525
00:34:51,933 --> 00:34:58,493
Speaker 3: and they have manipulated policy agendas. You look at the

526
00:34:58,533 --> 00:35:03,293
Speaker 3: whole thing of Maori science, you know, mattaanga Maori replacing

527
00:35:03,413 --> 00:35:08,133
Speaker 3: or being equal to ordinary science. That was a policy

528
00:35:08,173 --> 00:35:12,053
Speaker 3: that was worked on in the late eighties, early nineties

529
00:35:12,533 --> 00:35:16,453
Speaker 3: and embedded in and so you know, now it's sort

530
00:35:16,453 --> 00:35:19,773
Speaker 3: of come into more prominence because people are now questioning it.

531
00:35:19,853 --> 00:35:21,533
Speaker 4: But it's been there a long time.

532
00:35:22,213 --> 00:35:28,213
Speaker 3: And so when a coalition government comes in, like National

533
00:35:28,293 --> 00:35:31,253
Speaker 3: Labor and National Act in New Zealand first comes in

534
00:35:31,293 --> 00:35:35,533
Speaker 3: and says, you know, we're going to undo this, they

535
00:35:35,613 --> 00:35:40,133
Speaker 3: have a huge job because it has been embedded in there.

536
00:35:40,253 --> 00:35:43,813
Speaker 4: And that's the trouble latent, all of this stuff.

537
00:35:43,453 --> 00:35:48,093
Speaker 3: That the Mari sovereignty movement have done he pur Poor

538
00:35:48,613 --> 00:35:52,853
Speaker 3: when Labor introduced he pur Poor. That was simply the

539
00:35:52,893 --> 00:35:58,733
Speaker 3: blueprint to ensure that by twenty forty we have Mari rule.

540
00:35:59,013 --> 00:36:03,453
Speaker 3: We no longer have democracy, we have Mari rule. And

541
00:36:04,013 --> 00:36:07,333
Speaker 3: it was predicated on a lot of these other changes

542
00:36:07,373 --> 00:36:09,693
Speaker 3: that had already taken place.

543
00:36:10,173 --> 00:36:12,973
Speaker 4: And so we're now way down that track.

544
00:36:13,653 --> 00:36:18,733
Speaker 3: And as I say, the government is trying to undo it,

545
00:36:19,533 --> 00:36:20,053
Speaker 3: but it is.

546
00:36:20,053 --> 00:36:20,853
Speaker 4: A massive job.

547
00:36:20,933 --> 00:36:24,413
Speaker 3: And I've realized in my mind the only way you

548
00:36:24,453 --> 00:36:28,213
Speaker 3: can undo all this stuff is to actually take all

549
00:36:28,373 --> 00:36:32,773
Speaker 3: references to Race out of all of our legislation, and

550
00:36:32,973 --> 00:36:36,653
Speaker 3: all references to treaty out of all of our legislation

551
00:36:37,053 --> 00:36:41,773
Speaker 3: except settlement legislation. And that's what other countries have done.

552
00:36:41,813 --> 00:36:47,893
Speaker 3: You've got France and Switzerland and Holland and Germany. All

553
00:36:47,933 --> 00:36:52,653
Speaker 3: these countries have removed race from their legislation because in

554
00:36:52,733 --> 00:36:55,013
Speaker 3: the end it's caused too much trouble.

555
00:36:55,093 --> 00:36:57,813
Speaker 2: Okay, would it be fair to say that New Zealand

556
00:36:57,893 --> 00:37:01,093
Speaker 2: based on that. I'd invite everyone to just stop for

557
00:37:01,133 --> 00:37:04,933
Speaker 2: a moment and consider that what you just said, removing race.

558
00:37:06,213 --> 00:37:10,053
Speaker 2: We have race in our legislation and it's worse than

559
00:37:10,053 --> 00:37:11,493
Speaker 2: it used to be, and it's probably going to get

560
00:37:11,533 --> 00:37:14,973
Speaker 2: worse unless something's done about. We are a racist country.

561
00:37:15,013 --> 00:37:15,693
Speaker 2: I'm based on that.

562
00:37:17,093 --> 00:37:19,373
Speaker 4: We are, and it's ridiculous.

563
00:37:19,853 --> 00:37:22,133
Speaker 3: I mean, how many of us like having to tick

564
00:37:22,173 --> 00:37:26,773
Speaker 3: the box that tells some official somewhere what race we are.

565
00:37:27,253 --> 00:37:31,053
Speaker 3: We hate it, We've always hated it, and we should

566
00:37:31,053 --> 00:37:34,893
Speaker 3: not have to do it. And so it's being used

567
00:37:35,493 --> 00:37:39,493
Speaker 3: as a weapon to actually number one, divide the country

568
00:37:39,733 --> 00:37:42,933
Speaker 3: and number two, clever people use it to gain lots

569
00:37:42,973 --> 00:37:46,093
Speaker 3: of contracts and power and wealth and all the rest

570
00:37:46,093 --> 00:37:50,493
Speaker 3: of it. It's become a political weapon. And yet you know,

571
00:37:50,773 --> 00:37:53,853
Speaker 3: governments are blind to the fact that this is something

572
00:37:53,933 --> 00:37:57,173
Speaker 3: they could change, they should change it and they should

573
00:37:57,253 --> 00:37:58,573
Speaker 3: dam well change it now.

574
00:37:59,173 --> 00:38:02,093
Speaker 2: Well it's only going to get worse if they don't. Yes,

575
00:38:02,373 --> 00:38:06,213
Speaker 2: like everything would How would a revolution in this country

576
00:38:06,773 --> 00:38:07,293
Speaker 2: take place?

577
00:38:07,333 --> 00:38:12,653
Speaker 3: Do you think, oh gods sometimes that yeah, I sometimes

578
00:38:12,693 --> 00:38:17,493
Speaker 3: think a revolution did take place under Labor. That you

579
00:38:17,533 --> 00:38:21,853
Speaker 3: know when you go back to twenty twenty and Labor

580
00:38:21,973 --> 00:38:25,853
Speaker 3: was elected with a majority, and that's when all of

581
00:38:25,893 --> 00:38:29,333
Speaker 3: a sudden, you know, you had Nanaiya Mahuta coming out

582
00:38:29,373 --> 00:38:33,853
Speaker 3: and saying they were going to cancel petition rights and

583
00:38:33,933 --> 00:38:37,093
Speaker 3: local governments so you could no longer oppose mari wards

584
00:38:37,613 --> 00:38:42,853
Speaker 3: that water was suddenly going to be centralized and co governed.

585
00:38:43,333 --> 00:38:45,453
Speaker 3: As I said, with health, it was going to be

586
00:38:45,493 --> 00:38:50,893
Speaker 3: co governed. If you look at all government departments, you know, corrections, police,

587
00:38:51,293 --> 00:38:54,093
Speaker 3: they all ended up with a co governance body in

588
00:38:54,173 --> 00:38:57,213
Speaker 3: there where Maori were helping to make the decisions.

589
00:38:57,333 --> 00:39:01,653
Speaker 4: Did you mention the councils, Oh, councils, man alive. Don't

590
00:39:01,693 --> 00:39:02,933
Speaker 4: get me going on councils.

591
00:39:03,493 --> 00:39:07,133
Speaker 3: They are just about the worst of all. It's dreadful

592
00:39:08,373 --> 00:39:11,373
Speaker 3: what's happened. Of course, in two thousand and two you

593
00:39:11,413 --> 00:39:14,453
Speaker 3: can go back and point the finger at Helen Clark's

594
00:39:14,493 --> 00:39:16,453
Speaker 3: Labor government in two thousand and.

595
00:39:16,373 --> 00:39:19,693
Speaker 4: Two because they brought in the four well.

596
00:39:19,533 --> 00:39:26,093
Speaker 3: Beings right, that was economic, environmental, social and cultural wellbeings

597
00:39:26,773 --> 00:39:29,693
Speaker 3: and also the power of general competence. So they said

598
00:39:29,733 --> 00:39:33,093
Speaker 3: to counsels, here you are. You can spend your money

599
00:39:33,093 --> 00:39:35,293
Speaker 3: in whatever way you like, but you have to look

600
00:39:35,333 --> 00:39:40,613
Speaker 3: out for the wellbeings of our society. And that unleashed

601
00:39:40,653 --> 00:39:44,853
Speaker 3: them to become pawns if you like, for all the

602
00:39:44,933 --> 00:39:48,013
Speaker 3: activist groups to get in so they could start to

603
00:39:48,053 --> 00:39:51,013
Speaker 3: control budgets and control spending and all the.

604
00:39:51,013 --> 00:39:51,373
Speaker 4: Rest of it.

605
00:39:51,453 --> 00:39:54,293
Speaker 3: Until then, nobody had bothered, you know. The only people

606
00:39:54,333 --> 00:39:57,093
Speaker 3: who sort of put them forward for election were people

607
00:39:57,173 --> 00:40:01,813
Speaker 3: who wanted to do rubbish and footpaths and lighting better.

608
00:40:03,973 --> 00:40:06,933
Speaker 3: But then once they got the power of general competence,

609
00:40:06,973 --> 00:40:10,653
Speaker 3: it became a place where you could, you know, push

610
00:40:10,733 --> 00:40:15,253
Speaker 3: your agenda at a local level. And and and it's

611
00:40:15,293 --> 00:40:18,653
Speaker 3: it just has got worse. And of course mari have

612
00:40:18,853 --> 00:40:22,733
Speaker 3: seen it as a great way to push for their agendas.

613
00:40:22,813 --> 00:40:25,333
Speaker 3: And if you went through every council in New Zealand

614
00:40:25,933 --> 00:40:30,253
Speaker 3: and asked how much money has gone into Maori only initiatives,

615
00:40:30,973 --> 00:40:34,893
Speaker 3: you will find it would be horrifying. They have they

616
00:40:34,973 --> 00:40:39,253
Speaker 3: have taken over most councils in this country, either through

617
00:40:39,333 --> 00:40:43,133
Speaker 3: MARI wards or through advisory groups, which in many places

618
00:40:43,173 --> 00:40:48,213
Speaker 3: have got voting rights. And unless the government does something

619
00:40:48,293 --> 00:40:52,493
Speaker 3: to stop all that local government has been taken over,

620
00:40:52,613 --> 00:40:59,253
Speaker 3: it's been captured by MARI leadership. And so what the

621
00:40:59,453 --> 00:41:02,893
Speaker 3: government has to do to actually end that is to

622
00:41:03,293 --> 00:41:09,333
Speaker 3: parson edict which says that local councils cannot have advisory

623
00:41:09,373 --> 00:41:12,573
Speaker 3: groups permanent advisory groups full stop.

624
00:41:13,213 --> 00:41:14,453
Speaker 4: They can have temporary ones.

625
00:41:14,533 --> 00:41:17,933
Speaker 3: So if they needed help over I don't know, planning,

626
00:41:18,013 --> 00:41:22,133
Speaker 3: some planning decisions or economic decisions, whatever, they could have

627
00:41:22,253 --> 00:41:26,613
Speaker 3: temporary groups to help them, but no permanent advisory groups.

628
00:41:26,813 --> 00:41:29,533
Speaker 3: Do you know the Northland Regional Council has got an

629
00:41:29,573 --> 00:41:32,733
Speaker 3: advisor I think there's nine on the council. They've got

630
00:41:32,773 --> 00:41:37,773
Speaker 3: an advisory group of almost twenty five Maori different MARI groups,

631
00:41:38,573 --> 00:41:42,613
Speaker 3: and so of course the pressure on the council to

632
00:41:42,693 --> 00:41:47,573
Speaker 3: do things to satisfy them is enormous and that's what

633
00:41:47,733 --> 00:41:48,493
Speaker 3: has to stop.

634
00:41:51,093 --> 00:41:57,573
Speaker 2: Has Erica Stanford as Minister of Education made any differences,

635
00:41:57,653 --> 00:41:59,373
Speaker 2: any positive differences.

636
00:42:00,653 --> 00:42:07,133
Speaker 3: She's very focused on curriculum and what children actually learn

637
00:42:07,373 --> 00:42:10,413
Speaker 3: in the classroom and good on her for doing that.

638
00:42:11,293 --> 00:42:17,253
Speaker 3: She has faced criticism for not changing the Education and

639
00:42:17,333 --> 00:42:21,933
Speaker 3: Training Act, which has got a huge amount of treaty

640
00:42:21,973 --> 00:42:27,533
Speaker 3: clauses and Maori rights in the actual legislation, and of

641
00:42:27,533 --> 00:42:32,933
Speaker 3: course that legislation covers preschool right up to tertiary institutes

642
00:42:33,013 --> 00:42:37,373
Speaker 3: as well, and she was criticized for not taking out

643
00:42:37,493 --> 00:42:42,173
Speaker 3: the treaty clauses there, but she said that that is

644
00:42:42,253 --> 00:42:46,253
Speaker 3: part of the work of Paul Goldsmith, the Minister of Justice,

645
00:42:46,693 --> 00:42:50,573
Speaker 3: who is doing that review if you remember, of government

646
00:42:50,693 --> 00:42:55,933
Speaker 3: agencies with treaty clauses in to look at either firming

647
00:42:55,973 --> 00:42:59,053
Speaker 3: them up so they're not a general treaty clause anymore

648
00:42:59,173 --> 00:43:02,493
Speaker 3: but a specific thing, or taking.

649
00:43:02,173 --> 00:43:03,173
Speaker 4: Them out altogether.

650
00:43:03,773 --> 00:43:07,493
Speaker 3: And so she said, no, that's what the Minister of

651
00:43:07,653 --> 00:43:11,013
Speaker 3: Justices will working on. So I don't want to deal

652
00:43:11,133 --> 00:43:18,573
Speaker 3: with that in this review of this amendment bill. I

653
00:43:18,613 --> 00:43:22,773
Speaker 3: think that's passing the buck. I think that it would

654
00:43:22,773 --> 00:43:27,213
Speaker 3: have been helpful because a lot of these institutions, You've

655
00:43:27,253 --> 00:43:29,493
Speaker 3: got to remember, they've got their own agendas in this

656
00:43:29,613 --> 00:43:31,973
Speaker 3: area as well. A lot of key people are in

657
00:43:32,013 --> 00:43:38,093
Speaker 3: there pushing for these treaty rights, and so I think

658
00:43:38,173 --> 00:43:41,333
Speaker 3: she would have helped new Zealand, if she'd have actually

659
00:43:42,413 --> 00:43:46,493
Speaker 3: done the hard stuff there and then, and and remember

660
00:43:46,613 --> 00:43:49,973
Speaker 3: of course that it's never as simple as one treaty clause, right,

661
00:43:50,013 --> 00:43:54,133
Speaker 3: There's always other bits and pieces in legislation, especially big

662
00:43:54,213 --> 00:44:00,573
Speaker 3: legislation that empowers you know, TI, which I think is

663
00:44:00,653 --> 00:44:02,613
Speaker 3: hyper poor and disguise.

664
00:44:03,733 --> 00:44:05,733
Speaker 4: And so but she would have.

665
00:44:05,733 --> 00:44:07,813
Speaker 3: Been it would have been good if she'd have actually

666
00:44:07,853 --> 00:44:11,973
Speaker 3: tackled them. Main one because at the moment, at the moment,

667
00:44:12,013 --> 00:44:17,173
Speaker 3: the way it stands, boards of trustees for all levels

668
00:44:17,173 --> 00:44:22,733
Speaker 3: of education, primary secondary universities as well in preschool, they

669
00:44:22,933 --> 00:44:27,093
Speaker 3: all have to push Mari rights. They've got to prioritize

670
00:44:28,093 --> 00:44:31,213
Speaker 3: equity for Mari kids, which you know, you've got to

671
00:44:31,253 --> 00:44:34,733
Speaker 3: say that ensuring Mary kids do well is hugely important,

672
00:44:35,333 --> 00:44:38,293
Speaker 3: but it has other connotations. It means you have to

673
00:44:38,853 --> 00:44:42,013
Speaker 3: you know, drill in Maori language into your kids. You've

674
00:44:42,053 --> 00:44:45,013
Speaker 3: got to get them all doing harker, all doing wayata,

675
00:44:45,253 --> 00:44:46,853
Speaker 3: all doing karakre.

676
00:44:46,453 --> 00:44:46,973
Speaker 4: In the morning.

677
00:44:47,013 --> 00:44:50,213
Speaker 3: So you know, it's just gone overboard, and that's the trouble.

678
00:44:50,293 --> 00:44:54,053
Speaker 3: She's allowing that to continue on until the Minister of

679
00:44:54,253 --> 00:44:56,533
Speaker 3: Justice finishes his project.

680
00:44:56,613 --> 00:45:04,213
Speaker 2: If he ever does, maybe somebody should ask him I'm

681
00:45:04,213 --> 00:45:08,253
Speaker 2: intrigued with your response to that. There are other matters

682
00:45:08,453 --> 00:45:15,413
Speaker 2: with regard to education that deserve a little attention in

683
00:45:15,533 --> 00:45:19,013
Speaker 2: considering what kids are being taught, and one of those

684
00:45:19,373 --> 00:45:24,373
Speaker 2: is climate change or global warning or whatever you want

685
00:45:24,373 --> 00:45:26,973
Speaker 2: to call it. What's interesting to me is that at

686
00:45:27,013 --> 00:45:30,173
Speaker 2: the moment across the Tasman there is a conference on

687
00:45:30,813 --> 00:45:32,013
Speaker 2: In fact, I think there might be a couple of

688
00:45:32,093 --> 00:45:34,773
Speaker 2: conferences on, but there's a conference on where where where

689
00:45:34,813 --> 00:45:38,733
Speaker 2: they're dealing with all this sort of stuff from shall

690
00:45:38,773 --> 00:45:45,173
Speaker 2: we say, a conservative perspective, a realistic expective. Adam Crichton,

691
00:45:45,333 --> 00:45:49,893
Speaker 2: who was well known to most people who listen to

692
00:45:50,013 --> 00:45:54,213
Speaker 2: this podcast because he was a journalist with The Australian

693
00:45:54,213 --> 00:45:58,413
Speaker 2: for a long long time. He went to Washington as

694
00:45:58,493 --> 00:46:02,213
Speaker 2: there Washington Correspondent as a matter of choice, because he's

695
00:46:02,413 --> 00:46:05,493
Speaker 2: an economist. He chose to do it. But he's now

696
00:46:05,533 --> 00:46:09,413
Speaker 2: back and he's I only saw this yesterday. He is

697
00:46:09,773 --> 00:46:13,893
Speaker 2: now Senior Fellow and chief Economist at the Institute of

698
00:46:14,053 --> 00:46:19,493
Speaker 2: Public Affairs. So in The Australian on Saturday, net zero

699
00:46:19,613 --> 00:46:24,653
Speaker 2: credibility is fantasy policy from the barely believable to the absurd.

700
00:46:25,693 --> 00:46:29,053
Speaker 2: Now most people won't be able to read this, so

701
00:46:29,333 --> 00:46:32,813
Speaker 2: I will quote it at the end of the podcast.

702
00:46:33,093 --> 00:46:35,413
Speaker 2: There's another one I want to quote as well, but

703
00:46:35,893 --> 00:46:38,213
Speaker 2: let me quote you just a little. Where there any

704
00:46:38,293 --> 00:46:41,133
Speaker 2: lingering doubts that we've entered a post rational world where

705
00:46:41,173 --> 00:46:45,053
Speaker 2: feelings and fantasies govern public policy, they were snuffed out

706
00:46:45,093 --> 00:46:49,093
Speaker 2: on Thursday when the government told voters that two plus

707
00:46:49,133 --> 00:46:53,453
Speaker 2: two equals five. In what must rank as one of

708
00:46:53,493 --> 00:46:58,453
Speaker 2: the most brazen public policy announcements in Australian history, Anthony Albanesi,

709
00:46:58,573 --> 00:47:02,853
Speaker 2: Jim Chalmers and Chris Bowen promised to radically restructure the

710
00:47:02,893 --> 00:47:08,333
Speaker 2: Australian economy within a decade at zero cost. Even said

711
00:47:08,533 --> 00:47:11,653
Speaker 2: aside the laughable notion that cutting Australia's one point one

712
00:47:11,693 --> 00:47:14,773
Speaker 2: percent share of global emissions would make a measurable dent

713
00:47:15,333 --> 00:47:20,293
Speaker 2: in global climate patterns. The claim was absurd. Not only

714
00:47:20,293 --> 00:47:23,693
Speaker 2: would a new plan to slash carbon dioxide emissions by

715
00:47:23,773 --> 00:47:26,573
Speaker 2: sixty two to seventy percent from two thousand and five

716
00:47:26,653 --> 00:47:32,053
Speaker 2: levels by twenty thirty five cost nothing, So going back

717
00:47:32,053 --> 00:47:34,453
Speaker 2: and picking that up, not only would a new plan

718
00:47:34,933 --> 00:47:38,533
Speaker 2: cost nothing, it would supposedly be a boon for jobs,

719
00:47:38,933 --> 00:47:43,013
Speaker 2: for growth, for incomes and the environment. We were told

720
00:47:43,253 --> 00:47:48,053
Speaker 2: now he's savage and cleverly so all the way through

721
00:47:48,093 --> 00:47:51,253
Speaker 2: that article. We lack that in this country. I wonder

722
00:47:51,333 --> 00:47:55,693
Speaker 2: your thoughts on the teaching of the and I will

723
00:47:55,773 --> 00:48:00,173
Speaker 2: call it the fakeness, the falseness of the policy that

724
00:48:00,213 --> 00:48:05,133
Speaker 2: this government or our governments have adopted is being taught.

725
00:48:06,933 --> 00:48:07,133
Speaker 4: Well.

726
00:48:07,173 --> 00:48:11,573
Speaker 3: I think it's you know, it really is ridiculous because

727
00:48:12,213 --> 00:48:17,933
Speaker 3: it is another example of a political agenda that's being

728
00:48:18,133 --> 00:48:26,653
Speaker 3: touted as the truth. Climate change is a hard left policy.

729
00:48:26,773 --> 00:48:31,453
Speaker 3: That's the end goal, of course, is the industrialization, I mean,

730
00:48:31,693 --> 00:48:35,173
Speaker 3: ruining our economy so that we're all poor again, and

731
00:48:36,013 --> 00:48:38,693
Speaker 3: you know, God knows what they actually want to achieve

732
00:48:38,773 --> 00:48:39,253
Speaker 3: from it all.

733
00:48:39,333 --> 00:48:44,893
Speaker 4: It's just mind blowing. And what's worse latent is that.

734
00:48:47,053 --> 00:48:50,693
Speaker 3: Governments like Labor you can sort of understand them going

735
00:48:50,733 --> 00:48:52,853
Speaker 3: along with it because you know, it is a hard

736
00:48:52,973 --> 00:48:58,693
Speaker 3: left policy, but governments like National for God's sake, I mean,

737
00:48:59,053 --> 00:49:02,893
Speaker 3: we would have expected common sense from those guys. And

738
00:49:03,253 --> 00:49:07,093
Speaker 3: it is deeply, deeply worrying that they are putting ahead

739
00:49:07,133 --> 00:49:10,613
Speaker 3: with all this stuff, ruining our economy on one hand

740
00:49:10,973 --> 00:49:13,373
Speaker 3: and trying to boost it on the other. I mean,

741
00:49:13,413 --> 00:49:17,293
Speaker 3: they're absolutely nuts. And so if you go back to

742
00:49:17,373 --> 00:49:21,453
Speaker 3: the basis of what is actually going on within our economy,

743
00:49:22,253 --> 00:49:26,053
Speaker 3: the fact is they put a price on carbon and

744
00:49:26,173 --> 00:49:29,373
Speaker 3: so every you know, every time you fill up your

745
00:49:29,413 --> 00:49:33,733
Speaker 3: car you're at the petrol station, you're spending ten bucks

746
00:49:33,733 --> 00:49:37,133
Speaker 3: on a carbon levee. Every time you pay your power bill,

747
00:49:37,213 --> 00:49:41,093
Speaker 3: it's about twenty dollars on the average household power bill.

748
00:49:41,933 --> 00:49:45,133
Speaker 3: Every time a tin of peaches comes from the Watties

749
00:49:45,293 --> 00:49:50,093
Speaker 3: factory to your supermarket, it's going on transport that's got

750
00:49:50,133 --> 00:49:55,813
Speaker 3: to pay industrial levees. And so everything is hyped up

751
00:49:55,853 --> 00:49:58,373
Speaker 3: in price. And if you know we've got a cost

752
00:49:58,373 --> 00:50:01,293
Speaker 3: of living problem, a lot of it is caused by

753
00:50:01,333 --> 00:50:05,613
Speaker 3: this damn net zero stuff. And as Adam Crichton said,

754
00:50:05,653 --> 00:50:08,733
Speaker 3: it won't make a blind bit of difference to to

755
00:50:08,813 --> 00:50:12,813
Speaker 3: the climate. But the worst thing is, if you think

756
00:50:12,853 --> 00:50:15,813
Speaker 3: of it, it was always sold. The Paris Accord was

757
00:50:15,893 --> 00:50:20,573
Speaker 3: sold on the basis of every country doing their bit right.

758
00:50:21,093 --> 00:50:23,773
Speaker 3: And there you've got the biggest emitters in the world

759
00:50:24,453 --> 00:50:27,813
Speaker 3: not doing anything. They're building coal fired power stations like

760
00:50:27,893 --> 00:50:31,213
Speaker 3: the snow tomorrow. You've now got the other big emitter,

761
00:50:31,413 --> 00:50:32,693
Speaker 3: America pulling out.

762
00:50:33,293 --> 00:50:35,413
Speaker 4: And so why the hell, are we.

763
00:50:35,653 --> 00:50:39,653
Speaker 3: Still squeezing our economy and driving it into the ground

764
00:50:40,093 --> 00:50:41,333
Speaker 3: when everyone else.

765
00:50:41,253 --> 00:50:44,213
Speaker 4: Is waving goodbye New Zealand. You know you can go

766
00:50:44,293 --> 00:50:45,093
Speaker 4: to rack and ruin.

767
00:50:45,373 --> 00:50:47,773
Speaker 3: We're going to go and grow our economies and do

768
00:50:47,893 --> 00:50:51,613
Speaker 3: well for our people and build prosperity on cheap power,

769
00:50:51,733 --> 00:50:54,773
Speaker 3: because that's what it's all about. And you know, so

770
00:50:54,893 --> 00:50:59,413
Speaker 3: we are absolutely nuts in this country and National deserves

771
00:50:59,413 --> 00:51:03,933
Speaker 3: a caning for carrying on with this agenda at least

772
00:51:04,733 --> 00:51:07,773
Speaker 3: act in New Zealand first, and now having second thoughts,

773
00:51:08,493 --> 00:51:11,093
Speaker 3: it's time National dam Will did it too. And the

774
00:51:11,173 --> 00:51:15,253
Speaker 3: other thing is that they could change the regulations overnight

775
00:51:15,813 --> 00:51:19,213
Speaker 3: to give relief to this economy and to actually help

776
00:51:19,293 --> 00:51:21,653
Speaker 3: to get us out of this economic slump we're in

777
00:51:22,333 --> 00:51:25,093
Speaker 3: because a lot of it is based on a false

778
00:51:25,253 --> 00:51:30,253
Speaker 3: blinking metric. Anyway, they've overblown the value of methane, and

779
00:51:30,333 --> 00:51:33,493
Speaker 3: of course half of our emissions from New Zealand our methane.

780
00:51:33,853 --> 00:51:37,693
Speaker 3: They've overblown the value of methane by four times. If

781
00:51:37,693 --> 00:51:40,853
Speaker 3: they just damn Will put in the correct value of methane,

782
00:51:41,213 --> 00:51:44,973
Speaker 3: our carbon emission problem would vanish overnight. We could get

783
00:51:45,093 --> 00:51:47,613
Speaker 3: rid of the emissions trading scheme and all that stuff,

784
00:51:48,013 --> 00:51:51,013
Speaker 3: and we'd actually all have more money in our back pockets.

785
00:51:51,573 --> 00:51:55,653
Speaker 2: You have brilliantly summarized the exact situation. And I think

786
00:51:55,693 --> 00:51:58,493
Speaker 2: you use the word fools somewhere along the line too.

787
00:51:59,173 --> 00:52:01,853
Speaker 2: That's that endorses what you say.

788
00:52:03,013 --> 00:52:06,093
Speaker 3: But you know, and it's worse that they're teaching this stuff.

789
00:52:05,773 --> 00:52:07,773
Speaker 2: To kick well, that was where we started through the.

790
00:52:08,453 --> 00:52:12,333
Speaker 4: Doctrinating them were propaganda. For God's sake. It's just wrong.

791
00:52:12,453 --> 00:52:15,973
Speaker 2: And it doesn't stop there either. It continues into other areas,

792
00:52:16,013 --> 00:52:21,133
Speaker 2: such as the recognition of a fiction called Palestine. There

793
00:52:21,133 --> 00:52:24,853
Speaker 2: never was. There never was a Palestine ever. I want

794
00:52:24,893 --> 00:52:29,613
Speaker 2: to then draw your attention to something else. I'm going

795
00:52:29,653 --> 00:52:33,173
Speaker 2: to read the full version of Adam Crichton's piece, but

796
00:52:33,613 --> 00:52:36,853
Speaker 2: halfway through it, he says. As esteemed Canadian scientist Baklav

797
00:52:36,933 --> 00:52:41,293
Speaker 2: Schmil noted last year, the world's first energy revolution from

798
00:52:41,293 --> 00:52:44,173
Speaker 2: wood to fossil fuels, or from a less to a

799
00:52:44,293 --> 00:52:48,613
Speaker 2: more efficient energy source, took two centuries and still wasn't complete.

800
00:52:49,133 --> 00:52:52,173
Speaker 2: Almost three billion people today rely primarily on woodstore and

801
00:52:52,253 --> 00:52:56,693
Speaker 2: dried dung for cooking and heating. Believing we could replace

802
00:52:56,733 --> 00:53:01,053
Speaker 2: the entire energy foundation of modern civilization within twenty five years,

803
00:53:01,453 --> 00:53:04,133
Speaker 2: and this time from a more efficient to a less

804
00:53:04,133 --> 00:53:11,293
Speaker 2: efficient source of energy was delusional. Now that whole paragraph

805
00:53:11,773 --> 00:53:16,453
Speaker 2: just to introduce another subject, another matter. I quote you

806
00:53:16,893 --> 00:53:20,253
Speaker 2: welcome to Big Brothers Digital Prison, Part one. Central Bank

807
00:53:20,333 --> 00:53:25,053
Speaker 2: Digital Currencies, authored by Robert Williams via the Gatestone Institute.

808
00:53:25,093 --> 00:53:29,053
Speaker 2: This is linked with all the other things that we've

809
00:53:29,053 --> 00:53:32,253
Speaker 2: been talking about. Global leaders are working at full speed

810
00:53:32,333 --> 00:53:35,933
Speaker 2: to introduce central bank digital currencies. A CBDC is a

811
00:53:35,973 --> 00:53:39,133
Speaker 2: digital currency that's issued directly by a central bank, such

812
00:53:39,173 --> 00:53:42,693
Speaker 2: as the Federal Reserve in the US, the European Central Bank,

813
00:53:43,693 --> 00:53:46,053
Speaker 2: the Bank of England in the UK, and the Reserve

814
00:53:46,133 --> 00:53:48,053
Speaker 2: Bank in New zeal And. We know that the Reserve

815
00:53:48,093 --> 00:53:51,693
Speaker 2: Bank is working on it. A CBDC will be the

816
00:53:51,733 --> 00:53:55,533
Speaker 2: final straw that ensures that every dream of suppression and

817
00:53:55,613 --> 00:54:00,013
Speaker 2: control that the globalist nurture will come true. Several of

818
00:54:00,053 --> 00:54:04,013
Speaker 2: those dreams are already a reality, including shutting down dissent

819
00:54:04,093 --> 00:54:07,333
Speaker 2: and free speech, as in Europe, where people are routinely

820
00:54:07,373 --> 00:54:10,773
Speaker 2: fined and arrested saying things their governments don't like. A

821
00:54:10,813 --> 00:54:13,653
Speaker 2: host of other controlling measures are already in the works,

822
00:54:13,653 --> 00:54:17,493
Speaker 2: including herding people into fifteen minute cities. We've got those

823
00:54:17,613 --> 00:54:21,773
Speaker 2: underway where it's easier to monitor them. Keep tabs on

824
00:54:21,893 --> 00:54:25,053
Speaker 2: their use of private cars, decide what they can and

825
00:54:25,093 --> 00:54:29,893
Speaker 2: cannot eat, ideally ecologically preferable bugs and lab grown meat,

826
00:54:30,053 --> 00:54:34,013
Speaker 2: no beef or cheese, track their carbon footprints, determine where

827
00:54:34,053 --> 00:54:37,813
Speaker 2: and how they can travel, oversee their vaccines, and so on.

828
00:54:38,173 --> 00:54:41,773
Speaker 2: And then he quotes the Oxford educated German economist Richard

829
00:54:41,813 --> 00:54:47,533
Speaker 2: Werner in an interview last year, the push for CBDCs

830
00:54:47,693 --> 00:54:50,773
Speaker 2: is the final step in a multi decade program by

831
00:54:50,813 --> 00:54:55,533
Speaker 2: central planners to increase their power over people and over countries.

832
00:54:56,293 --> 00:54:58,453
Speaker 2: And he goes on at some lengths. Maybe I'll include

833
00:54:58,453 --> 00:55:00,773
Speaker 2: that at the end of the podcast too. Did I

834
00:55:00,893 --> 00:55:02,533
Speaker 2: make sense with that?

835
00:55:03,853 --> 00:55:08,853
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just a really really worrying trend. That's total

836
00:55:08,933 --> 00:55:12,813
Speaker 3: control of people, isn't it, And taking away all of

837
00:55:12,853 --> 00:55:16,613
Speaker 3: your freedoms and all of your ability to control your

838
00:55:16,613 --> 00:55:19,733
Speaker 3: own life away from those people who.

839
00:55:19,653 --> 00:55:20,733
Speaker 4: Are trying to control you.

840
00:55:21,613 --> 00:55:25,213
Speaker 3: And yeah, I just I mean I read the other

841
00:55:25,293 --> 00:55:28,453
Speaker 3: day where they're talking now, just as they took away

842
00:55:28,533 --> 00:55:31,773
Speaker 3: texts in New Zealand so we couldn't use texts anymore,

843
00:55:32,213 --> 00:55:36,813
Speaker 3: they're now talking about taking away our ATM machines, so

844
00:55:36,853 --> 00:55:41,013
Speaker 3: we can't get cash out anymore. And I'm thinking to myself,

845
00:55:41,053 --> 00:55:43,333
Speaker 3: where the hell is all this going? And what you've

846
00:55:43,413 --> 00:55:46,733
Speaker 3: just read is exactly where it's all going. And I think, key,

847
00:55:46,773 --> 00:55:49,453
Speaker 3: we should say no, bugger off, we don't want that.

848
00:55:50,173 --> 00:55:52,253
Speaker 4: You know, we've got to start fighting back.

849
00:55:52,853 --> 00:55:53,893
Speaker 2: How do we do that best?

850
00:55:54,573 --> 00:55:57,013
Speaker 4: Oh god, how do we do it best? Well? First

851
00:55:57,053 --> 00:55:58,453
Speaker 4: of all, all.

852
00:55:58,293 --> 00:56:01,573
Speaker 3: This stuff can only come in through politicians, right, so

853
00:56:01,773 --> 00:56:06,933
Speaker 3: it needs legislative changes. And so obviously the first protocol

854
00:56:07,173 --> 00:56:10,693
Speaker 3: has to be our politics. Find out where they stand

855
00:56:10,773 --> 00:56:13,533
Speaker 3: on it and what they're going to do to push

856
00:56:13,613 --> 00:56:15,493
Speaker 3: back against pressure from banks.

857
00:56:15,933 --> 00:56:17,213
Speaker 4: Because the reason they.

858
00:56:17,133 --> 00:56:20,413
Speaker 3: Were talking about getting rid of ATMs was apparently they.

859
00:56:20,333 --> 00:56:21,733
Speaker 2: Cost too much rubbish.

860
00:56:21,893 --> 00:56:25,173
Speaker 3: Well, ah, yeah, exactly, that's exactly what I thought when

861
00:56:25,213 --> 00:56:28,933
Speaker 3: I read it, And so you know, it's just an excuse.

862
00:56:29,053 --> 00:56:32,773
Speaker 3: So it's where they want things to go, and we

863
00:56:32,813 --> 00:56:35,373
Speaker 3: are meant to just fall in line with it. Well,

864
00:56:35,493 --> 00:56:38,933
Speaker 3: I think it's time we said no, this is our country,

865
00:56:39,373 --> 00:56:42,373
Speaker 3: our way of doing things, and if you guys want

866
00:56:42,413 --> 00:56:44,773
Speaker 3: to provide services to us, you've got to do it

867
00:56:44,813 --> 00:56:47,653
Speaker 3: in a way that keeps your customer happy and doing

868
00:56:47,693 --> 00:56:50,373
Speaker 3: all that stuff doesn't keep us very happy at all.

869
00:56:50,933 --> 00:56:53,933
Speaker 2: You know, you've reminded me of something two things. First

870
00:56:53,973 --> 00:56:55,573
Speaker 2: of all, I don't know about where you live, but

871
00:56:55,613 --> 00:57:01,053
Speaker 2: where we live we've lost the Westpac EIGHTM for instance,

872
00:57:01,733 --> 00:57:06,413
Speaker 2: down down the village and in other places they've done

873
00:57:06,413 --> 00:57:08,853
Speaker 2: the same thing. And I'm not just talking Westpac, other

874
00:57:09,093 --> 00:57:13,333
Speaker 2: banks as well. And they and that's in their progressive plan.

875
00:57:14,573 --> 00:57:19,213
Speaker 2: Having been in Greece for a little while, and not

876
00:57:19,293 --> 00:57:25,893
Speaker 2: just Greece, but specifically Greece, there were ATMs everywhere. Now,

877
00:57:25,933 --> 00:57:31,053
Speaker 2: they weren't necessarily bank ATMs. They were free standing ATMs.

878
00:57:31,133 --> 00:57:37,013
Speaker 2: They were in stores, shops outside of welling, petrol stations

879
00:57:37,053 --> 00:57:43,333
Speaker 2: and cafes. And I didn't use one because I think

880
00:57:43,373 --> 00:57:47,373
Speaker 2: that the exchange rate was probably not to be admired

881
00:57:47,933 --> 00:57:53,213
Speaker 2: but or appreciate it. But I didn't use one because

882
00:57:53,413 --> 00:57:56,533
Speaker 2: A I didn't need to, and b because I think

883
00:57:56,573 --> 00:57:59,573
Speaker 2: the conversion rate would have been a ripoff. But if

884
00:57:59,573 --> 00:58:02,573
Speaker 2: you're a local and you're used utilizing it for your own, local,

885
00:58:02,613 --> 00:58:07,133
Speaker 2: normal purposes, they were everywhere, so why are we getting

886
00:58:07,213 --> 00:58:10,733
Speaker 2: rid of them? And they're not over in Central Europe?

887
00:58:11,013 --> 00:58:13,853
Speaker 3: Well, actually, Laton, that brings up a very good point,

888
00:58:13,893 --> 00:58:19,533
Speaker 3: doesn't it that if the whole finance industry is so

889
00:58:19,733 --> 00:58:24,573
Speaker 3: tightly regulated that we can only have banks there that

890
00:58:24,653 --> 00:58:27,413
Speaker 3: are no longer looking out for the needs of the customer,

891
00:58:28,333 --> 00:58:32,573
Speaker 3: and they're doing us a disservice in the services that

892
00:58:32,613 --> 00:58:36,013
Speaker 3: they are offering us, then they damn will need to

893
00:58:36,093 --> 00:58:40,293
Speaker 3: loosen up the legislation so that other operators can come

894
00:58:40,333 --> 00:58:43,973
Speaker 3: in who will offer us the service we want. I

895
00:58:44,013 --> 00:58:47,973
Speaker 3: mean that, Actually I hadn't been aware of what you

896
00:58:48,173 --> 00:58:51,253
Speaker 3: just described, and it would seem to me that that

897
00:58:51,333 --> 00:58:54,093
Speaker 3: would be a perfect way to allow it to happen.

898
00:58:54,413 --> 00:58:56,853
Speaker 4: In other words, what you'd be doing is bringing.

899
00:58:56,573 --> 00:59:01,053
Speaker 3: In some competition into the banking sector, which might make

900
00:59:01,133 --> 00:59:03,413
Speaker 3: them decide, Hang on a minute.

901
00:59:03,253 --> 00:59:05,333
Speaker 4: Maybe that wes PAC EIGHTM was.

902
00:59:05,413 --> 00:59:09,973
Speaker 3: A good idea in your in your little town, after all,

903
00:59:10,293 --> 00:59:12,733
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? And so we need

904
00:59:12,773 --> 00:59:15,973
Speaker 3: to have a way to fight back against this, either

905
00:59:16,093 --> 00:59:19,973
Speaker 3: through allowing in more competition or by talking to our

906
00:59:20,053 --> 00:59:22,213
Speaker 3: politicians and saying no way, Jose.

907
00:59:22,973 --> 00:59:26,933
Speaker 2: Of course, that would for politicians to do that, that

908
00:59:27,013 --> 00:59:31,653
Speaker 2: would require them to adjust their approach, would it not

909
00:59:31,933 --> 00:59:36,933
Speaker 2: to a cb DC, And we know there's no secret

910
00:59:36,973 --> 00:59:40,133
Speaker 2: abouts on their website that the Reserve Bank is working

911
00:59:40,213 --> 00:59:43,973
Speaker 2: on it, and I believe that when I am led

912
00:59:44,013 --> 00:59:49,453
Speaker 2: to believe that they're far more advanced than they're making public.

913
00:59:50,493 --> 00:59:53,253
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's still the politicians who are the gatekeepers

914
00:59:53,253 --> 00:59:54,213
Speaker 3: of it all, aren't they.

915
00:59:54,693 --> 00:59:57,973
Speaker 2: Well so well they are. But if it's the politicians

916
00:59:59,853 --> 01:00:04,253
Speaker 2: as we witness them in their behavior over net zero,

917
01:00:04,493 --> 01:00:08,973
Speaker 2: just as one example, then it's the controlled they're looking for.

918
01:00:09,773 --> 01:00:14,333
Speaker 2: And if you've got independent distributors of ATM machines, that

919
01:00:14,813 --> 01:00:19,893
Speaker 2: also removes that form of control of encouraging, if not enforcing,

920
01:00:19,893 --> 01:00:23,453
Speaker 2: people into compulsory central bank digital currency.

921
01:00:25,333 --> 01:00:29,053
Speaker 4: I think not enough is being said about all of this.

922
01:00:29,773 --> 01:00:33,373
Speaker 3: I know you've done a great job in raising awareness,

923
01:00:33,733 --> 01:00:37,893
Speaker 3: but it hasn't filtered down, I think, into the minds

924
01:00:37,933 --> 01:00:41,093
Speaker 3: of the general public, and we haven't really understood what

925
01:00:41,213 --> 01:00:44,373
Speaker 3: the implications of it all are. And so as far

926
01:00:44,413 --> 01:00:48,293
Speaker 3: as the politicians are concerned, they're probably thinking, oh, everyone's

927
01:00:48,333 --> 01:00:51,653
Speaker 3: happy with it, because no one's actually speaking out and

928
01:00:51,693 --> 01:00:55,453
Speaker 3: getting upset, and so, you know, I think the time

929
01:00:55,493 --> 01:00:58,813
Speaker 3: has come, with as I say, stories like the fact

930
01:00:58,853 --> 01:01:03,253
Speaker 3: that they're closing down ATMs, I think maybe the time

931
01:01:03,333 --> 01:01:05,453
Speaker 3: has come where we all need to get briefed up

932
01:01:05,493 --> 01:01:07,973
Speaker 3: on it and we start to we need to start

933
01:01:08,013 --> 01:01:08,813
Speaker 3: making noise.

934
01:01:09,373 --> 01:01:13,573
Speaker 2: The interesting thing is, as we've touched on schools and kids,

935
01:01:14,853 --> 01:01:18,853
Speaker 2: is that the younger generation thinks it's a great idea.

936
01:01:19,213 --> 01:01:23,093
Speaker 2: They're easily sold on something like not having at ms

937
01:01:23,173 --> 01:01:26,053
Speaker 2: and having a digital currency because they don't have the

938
01:01:26,853 --> 01:01:31,773
Speaker 2: experience or the education in knowing what can happen when

939
01:01:31,773 --> 01:01:34,773
Speaker 2: you surrender what you have assumed so far in your

940
01:01:34,853 --> 01:01:36,733
Speaker 2: life is a is a right?

941
01:01:37,173 --> 01:01:41,533
Speaker 3: No, that's very true, and of course you know they'll

942
01:01:41,573 --> 01:01:45,133
Speaker 3: be indoctrinated and the right way to look at all this,

943
01:01:45,173 --> 01:01:48,133
Speaker 3: won't they indeed, So that's a worry.

944
01:01:49,453 --> 01:01:53,813
Speaker 2: Muriel. It's been a pleasure. We haven't covered everything that

945
01:01:53,853 --> 01:01:56,373
Speaker 2: we might have, but that only leaves it for another day.

946
01:01:56,813 --> 01:01:59,253
Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much for inviting me. I've really

947
01:01:59,333 --> 01:02:02,253
Speaker 3: enjoyed it, and you know, good on you for the

948
01:02:02,293 --> 01:02:05,773
Speaker 3: great job that you do. You raise awareness on issues

949
01:02:05,853 --> 01:02:10,253
Speaker 3: that you know are very important to our future. And

950
01:02:10,533 --> 01:02:13,133
Speaker 3: I just wish you had a lot of clones out there,

951
01:02:13,213 --> 01:02:15,213
Speaker 3: Layton doing two more.

952
01:02:16,533 --> 01:02:19,733
Speaker 2: Well to talk about these matters. There are some, but

953
01:02:20,733 --> 01:02:26,173
Speaker 2: not enough, not as good as you are. Well, that's appreciated,

954
01:02:26,173 --> 01:02:29,613
Speaker 2: but I accept it modestly. Let me let me close

955
01:02:29,653 --> 01:02:31,813
Speaker 2: then with what I said, what I quoted a little

956
01:02:31,853 --> 01:02:35,493
Speaker 2: earlier from Roger Partridge's opening paragraph of an open society

957
01:02:35,573 --> 01:02:38,853
Speaker 2: requires constant vigilance. This is something I think is worth

958
01:02:38,973 --> 01:02:44,213
Speaker 2: that's worth memorizing, quoting Karl Popper. Openness could only survive

959
01:02:44,413 --> 01:02:48,533
Speaker 2: if actively defended by those who would exploit its openness

960
01:02:48,733 --> 01:02:53,653
Speaker 2: to destroy it. And those destroyers are there, not just here,

961
01:02:53,733 --> 01:02:58,293
Speaker 2: but they're everywhere. So again, thank you, and I expect

962
01:02:58,293 --> 01:03:00,093
Speaker 2: to talk with you again sometime in the not too

963
01:03:00,173 --> 01:03:00,853
Speaker 2: distant future.

964
01:03:01,733 --> 01:03:02,453
Speaker 4: Thank you, Laton.

965
01:03:03,693 --> 01:03:07,213
Speaker 2: Now, as an addition to the interview with Muriel, I

966
01:03:07,253 --> 01:03:10,373
Speaker 2: want to recommend to you something that you should read,

967
01:03:10,733 --> 01:03:14,293
Speaker 2: you will want to read, and furthermore you must read.

968
01:03:14,693 --> 01:03:20,013
Speaker 2: It comes from her site NZCPR dot com and it's

969
01:03:20,013 --> 01:03:24,653
Speaker 2: written by retired judge Anthony Willie, whom we have interviewed

970
01:03:24,693 --> 01:03:28,213
Speaker 2: on numerous occasions. Anthony Willy is a barrister and solicitor

971
01:03:28,253 --> 01:03:32,173
Speaker 2: who served as a judge on four courts district, Environment,

972
01:03:32,653 --> 01:03:36,413
Speaker 2: tax and Valuation. He is a former lecturer in law

973
01:03:36,493 --> 01:03:40,573
Speaker 2: at Canterbury University. He presently acts as an arbitrator, a

974
01:03:40,613 --> 01:03:45,373
Speaker 2: commercial mediator, a Resource Management Act commissioner and is a

975
01:03:45,413 --> 01:03:51,053
Speaker 2: director of several companies. It's entitled The National Party Survival

976
01:03:51,613 --> 01:03:54,933
Speaker 2: and the Stolen Country. You must read it. I'm not

977
01:03:55,013 --> 01:03:57,573
Speaker 2: going to not on I've read it. I'm not going

978
01:03:57,613 --> 01:04:00,293
Speaker 2: to read it on the podcast because it's ten pages.

979
01:04:00,653 --> 01:04:03,853
Speaker 2: Ten pages. But you must read it, and then you

980
01:04:03,853 --> 01:04:06,053
Speaker 2: will write to me and say thank you so much.

981
01:04:06,613 --> 01:04:10,173
Speaker 2: Anthony Willie NZ CPR dot com. And you'll find it

982
01:04:10,293 --> 01:04:21,453
Speaker 2: very easily. Lightm Smith, missus producer. Here we are for

983
01:04:22,053 --> 01:04:26,293
Speaker 2: the mailroom for three three. Somebody else is having an

984
01:04:26,293 --> 01:04:27,893
Speaker 2: episode three three today too.

985
01:04:28,813 --> 01:04:29,133
Speaker 4: Who's that?

986
01:04:29,333 --> 01:04:32,293
Speaker 2: I can't remember? Oh but I saw it earlier. I'll

987
01:04:32,293 --> 01:04:34,213
Speaker 2: tell you if I think thank you. I just thought

988
01:04:34,213 --> 01:04:38,733
Speaker 2: it was coincidental. I can really wait, I'm sure. Just

989
01:04:38,773 --> 01:04:40,653
Speaker 2: breathe deeply. Off you go.

990
01:04:41,493 --> 01:04:47,773
Speaker 5: Paul says, what an eloquent, educated and informative lady Louisa's

991
01:04:48,173 --> 01:04:52,133
Speaker 5: please invite her back as soon as possible, mussing over politics,

992
01:04:52,333 --> 01:04:55,813
Speaker 5: the climate and international finances. Are we in the West

993
01:04:56,453 --> 01:04:59,573
Speaker 5: having been have we been outsmarted by the Chinese yet again?

994
01:05:00,213 --> 01:05:03,053
Speaker 5: They're signed up to Paris twenty thirty. You obviously have

995
01:05:03,173 --> 01:05:06,453
Speaker 5: no intention of meeting the targets, thus saving a fortune

996
01:05:06,493 --> 01:05:09,653
Speaker 5: on production costs. How we in the West must be

997
01:05:09,693 --> 01:05:12,213
Speaker 5: seen to do the right thing to meet the nonsensical

998
01:05:12,453 --> 01:05:15,933
Speaker 5: net zero targets. Thus we are bringing so much debt

999
01:05:16,013 --> 01:05:19,613
Speaker 5: on ourselves. Our products will never be competitive, even allowing

1000
01:05:19,613 --> 01:05:20,773
Speaker 5: for the slave workers.

1001
01:05:20,893 --> 01:05:21,693
Speaker 4: It's a joke.

1002
01:05:22,293 --> 01:05:25,773
Speaker 5: Oh, how the Chinese must be laughing at us. I'm

1003
01:05:25,773 --> 01:05:28,893
Speaker 5: sure smarter people than me have considered this conundrum. But

1004
01:05:28,973 --> 01:05:32,253
Speaker 5: until the West admits, China and India have no intention

1005
01:05:32,413 --> 01:05:36,573
Speaker 5: of any real pollution reduction, we are just handicapping ourselves

1006
01:05:36,573 --> 01:05:40,933
Speaker 5: to manufacturing oblivion. Have an awesome day here in Paradise

1007
01:05:40,973 --> 01:05:43,093
Speaker 5: to you both and all the listeners, says Paul.

1008
01:05:43,733 --> 01:05:43,933
Speaker 3: Paul.

1009
01:05:44,133 --> 01:05:47,333
Speaker 2: That was very good, and of course after the discussion

1010
01:05:47,333 --> 01:05:52,493
Speaker 2: you've just heard, you will realize that it's correct and

1011
01:05:53,213 --> 01:05:56,653
Speaker 2: very much appreciated. It was a very good letter. Now

1012
01:05:56,693 --> 01:05:59,653
Speaker 2: the next is from you and McQueen. We had him

1013
01:05:59,653 --> 01:06:01,613
Speaker 2: on the podcast once. He has a substack and he

1014
01:06:01,613 --> 01:06:03,413
Speaker 2: also wrote a book, and that's why we had him

1015
01:06:03,453 --> 01:06:06,253
Speaker 2: on the podcast called The book was called One Son

1016
01:06:06,493 --> 01:06:11,413
Speaker 2: in the Sky. He has written this, well, he's forwarded

1017
01:06:11,413 --> 01:06:14,933
Speaker 2: this and I'm guessing it's from the substack, but I

1018
01:06:15,013 --> 01:06:20,493
Speaker 2: accept it as a piece of genuine correspondence. Recognizing Palestine

1019
01:06:20,613 --> 01:06:25,733
Speaker 2: feeds jihadist ideology. The New Zealand government must not recognize

1020
01:06:25,773 --> 01:06:29,133
Speaker 2: the so called state of Palestine at the UN this week.

1021
01:06:29,933 --> 01:06:32,773
Speaker 2: Doing so at this point would be a reward for

1022
01:06:32,973 --> 01:06:38,533
Speaker 2: barbaric Hamas terrorism and their complete intransigence in refusing to

1023
01:06:38,573 --> 01:06:41,773
Speaker 2: release the hostages that they continue to hold in utterly

1024
01:06:41,813 --> 01:06:45,093
Speaker 2: appalling conditions and threaten to put them on the front line,

1025
01:06:45,093 --> 01:06:49,013
Speaker 2: and they will. There is no doubt that the destruction

1026
01:06:49,333 --> 01:06:53,093
Speaker 2: that is happening in Gaza is a tragedy. However, it's

1027
01:06:53,133 --> 01:06:57,493
Speaker 2: a tragedy caused by the intransigence of Hamas at Every

1028
01:06:57,573 --> 01:07:01,533
Speaker 2: time more international pressure is applied to Israel, the less

1029
01:07:01,813 --> 01:07:08,413
Speaker 2: likely Hamasa to negotiate or surrender. The unconditional recognition of

1030
01:07:08,453 --> 01:07:12,653
Speaker 2: Palestine this week by the UK, Canada and Australia and

1031
01:07:12,693 --> 01:07:15,613
Speaker 2: as a couple of others too, without even requiring Hamas

1032
01:07:15,653 --> 01:07:21,093
Speaker 2: to first release the hostages is incomprehensible. I don't actually

1033
01:07:21,133 --> 01:07:24,253
Speaker 2: agree with you then, but nevertheless I'll take it. It

1034
01:07:24,293 --> 01:07:27,453
Speaker 2: doesn't just represent a total loss of moral clarity, it

1035
01:07:27,533 --> 01:07:32,893
Speaker 2: displays a complete naivety about dealing with terrorists jihadists. It

1036
01:07:32,973 --> 01:07:36,613
Speaker 2: is not a practical plan toward peace. As the UK

1037
01:07:36,733 --> 01:07:40,653
Speaker 2: Prime Minister described it, it's a free political gift to

1038
01:07:40,733 --> 01:07:46,653
Speaker 2: the vicious barbarians in her mass that requires absolutely nothing

1039
01:07:46,693 --> 01:07:50,813
Speaker 2: from them in return. New Zealand must not participate in

1040
01:07:50,853 --> 01:07:55,013
Speaker 2: this futile virtue, signaling instead, we should be standing strongly

1041
01:07:55,093 --> 01:07:58,933
Speaker 2: in support of Israel as the only truly democratic and

1042
01:07:59,173 --> 01:08:03,293
Speaker 2: free nation in the Middle East. Only when the malevolent

1043
01:08:03,453 --> 01:08:07,293
Speaker 2: influence of her Mass and other ji hardest forces is broken,

1044
01:08:07,853 --> 01:08:10,773
Speaker 2: and from the hopes of the Arab people who live

1045
01:08:10,813 --> 01:08:13,573
Speaker 2: in Gaza and the West Bank, will there be space

1046
01:08:13,613 --> 01:08:18,053
Speaker 2: for genuine dialogue and negotiation, the sort of dialogue and

1047
01:08:18,093 --> 01:08:21,413
Speaker 2: negotiation that Israel has been willing to engage in for decades,

1048
01:08:21,613 --> 01:08:24,933
Speaker 2: but which has always been thwarted by the jihadists, the

1049
01:08:24,973 --> 01:08:29,093
Speaker 2: ones who promote the genocidal slogan from rivers of the sea.

1050
01:08:29,693 --> 01:08:34,933
Speaker 2: It's time to destroy this ideology, not feed it. Youwan,

1051
01:08:35,253 --> 01:08:40,533
Speaker 2: very good. There are people in charge of in charge

1052
01:08:40,533 --> 01:08:42,933
Speaker 2: of will attempting to be in charge of a number

1053
01:08:42,973 --> 01:08:47,453
Speaker 2: of countries who simply are incapable of doing so.

1054
01:08:48,213 --> 01:08:52,253
Speaker 5: Watch this space, Laden Jin says, I love Luise Klegg's

1055
01:08:52,333 --> 01:08:55,733
Speaker 5: novel Definition of a progressive as quote someone who is

1056
01:08:55,773 --> 01:08:59,333
Speaker 5: a little bit malleable and fashionable, being inclined to jump

1057
01:08:59,333 --> 01:09:03,653
Speaker 5: on the latest leftist bandwagon of climate, gender, trans and

1058
01:09:03,693 --> 01:09:07,333
Speaker 5: cultural debates. But Jing goes on to say the greatest

1059
01:09:07,373 --> 01:09:11,253
Speaker 5: definition of a progressive is found in how progressives responded

1060
01:09:11,293 --> 01:09:15,053
Speaker 5: to the death of criminal George Floyd by inciting and

1061
01:09:15,093 --> 01:09:20,093
Speaker 5: carrying out the violent Black Lives Matter, chaos and riots. Contrast,

1062
01:09:20,133 --> 01:09:23,213
Speaker 5: as to the conservatives response to the assassination of Turning

1063
01:09:23,253 --> 01:09:27,093
Speaker 5: Point USA leader Charlie Kirk, they united the country with

1064
01:09:27,133 --> 01:09:30,813
Speaker 5: a peaceful, gospel message of love and hope. I'm sure

1065
01:09:30,853 --> 01:09:35,013
Speaker 5: you've listened to Erica Kirk's heart wrenching but undeniably Christian

1066
01:09:35,093 --> 01:09:38,613
Speaker 5: response to her husband's murder. I shed a tear when

1067
01:09:38,733 --> 01:09:43,733
Speaker 5: Erica uttered those words through her deepest pain. My husband, Charlie,

1068
01:09:43,813 --> 01:09:46,253
Speaker 5: he wanted to save young men, just like the one

1069
01:09:46,253 --> 01:09:49,573
Speaker 5: who took his life. The answer to hate is not hate,

1070
01:09:49,973 --> 01:09:53,733
Speaker 5: love for our enemies, and love for those who persecute us.

1071
01:09:55,053 --> 01:09:55,813
Speaker 5: So that's from Jin.

1072
01:09:56,693 --> 01:10:00,973
Speaker 2: Well, I don't understand. I've never been able to understand

1073
01:10:01,173 --> 01:10:07,653
Speaker 2: how people can be forgiving for something so serious. Is

1074
01:10:07,453 --> 01:10:11,253
Speaker 2: this that's called this discussion. I just don't. I don't

1075
01:10:11,333 --> 01:10:15,133
Speaker 2: get it. However, when I saw her through the tears

1076
01:10:15,853 --> 01:10:18,853
Speaker 2: making that comment about forgiveness, I thought it was going

1077
01:10:18,893 --> 01:10:22,093
Speaker 2: to be something I'm missing, so I'm looking for it.

1078
01:10:22,093 --> 01:10:24,413
Speaker 5: It's a wonderful gift that she has to be able

1079
01:10:24,453 --> 01:10:25,293
Speaker 5: to do that, isn't it?

1080
01:10:25,333 --> 01:10:29,293
Speaker 2: My goodness me now from Nathan, I'm in the process

1081
01:10:29,293 --> 01:10:32,653
Speaker 2: of listening to Louise Clegg on your latest podcast. Louise

1082
01:10:32,853 --> 01:10:37,693
Speaker 2: is correct about how political titles can be confusing. According

1083
01:10:37,733 --> 01:10:41,533
Speaker 2: to my understanding, different people might understand one label differently

1084
01:10:41,573 --> 01:10:45,213
Speaker 2: to another, yet follow the political movement that claims to

1085
01:10:45,253 --> 01:10:49,653
Speaker 2: have that label regardless of what their policy is. There

1086
01:10:49,693 --> 01:10:54,053
Speaker 2: are many people who say they're liberal and misunderstanding that

1087
01:10:54,133 --> 01:10:57,253
Speaker 2: the meaning of liberal to the far left is different

1088
01:10:57,253 --> 01:10:59,813
Speaker 2: to their own, and the same can be said for

1089
01:10:59,893 --> 01:11:05,013
Speaker 2: labels such as progressive, labor and Democrats. Liberal simply means

1090
01:11:05,973 --> 01:11:10,413
Speaker 2: to liberally exercise one's free them to exercise personal beliefs.

1091
01:11:11,293 --> 01:11:14,533
Speaker 2: When the far left use that method, a dark motive

1092
01:11:14,733 --> 01:11:18,133
Speaker 2: is added. The far left will use all the freedom

1093
01:11:18,133 --> 01:11:21,653
Speaker 2: they can muster to establish far left policy. It's a

1094
01:11:21,693 --> 01:11:25,373
Speaker 2: similar scenario with the progressive label. The left will use

1095
01:11:25,453 --> 01:11:30,293
Speaker 2: the progressive method to justify political shifting, progressing the country

1096
01:11:30,333 --> 01:11:34,813
Speaker 2: further left to achieve far left goals. The far left

1097
01:11:34,853 --> 01:11:37,733
Speaker 2: even try to use what they call democratic socialism to

1098
01:11:37,813 --> 01:11:42,533
Speaker 2: progress people who support democracy further to the left. The

1099
01:11:42,613 --> 01:11:46,333
Speaker 2: left knows that labels are important and recognize there are

1100
01:11:46,333 --> 01:11:49,613
Speaker 2: many people who follow a label blindly, who do not

1101
01:11:49,933 --> 01:11:53,493
Speaker 2: know or care too much about the policy, but will

1102
01:11:53,493 --> 01:11:58,413
Speaker 2: blindly believe the party retric These people will regurgitate talking

1103
01:11:58,453 --> 01:12:01,373
Speaker 2: points that have been drummed into them by their political

1104
01:12:01,413 --> 01:12:06,133
Speaker 2: party members or media or their education. But I have

1105
01:12:06,253 --> 01:12:09,333
Speaker 2: no idea why, or have any knowledge to back up

1106
01:12:09,373 --> 01:12:12,533
Speaker 2: their claims. The left of views of the Misnowman method

1107
01:12:12,613 --> 01:12:15,333
Speaker 2: for a long time over the last one hundred years.

1108
01:12:15,773 --> 01:12:19,253
Speaker 2: Certain extreme groups that have risen with a gold to

1109
01:12:19,333 --> 01:12:23,333
Speaker 2: take over countries and rule with the dictatorship often brand

1110
01:12:23,413 --> 01:12:29,413
Speaker 2: their initial movement as a liberation organization, for example plo

1111
01:12:29,733 --> 01:12:34,413
Speaker 2: ELN and so forth. Thanks for your time, Nathan, Thank

1112
01:12:34,453 --> 01:12:35,173
Speaker 2: you for yours.

1113
01:12:36,133 --> 01:12:38,933
Speaker 5: Late Adam says I have disconnected with a New Zealand

1114
01:12:39,013 --> 01:12:43,693
Speaker 5: family member over her disgusting posts, takes and ignorance over

1115
01:12:43,733 --> 01:12:47,853
Speaker 5: the Charlie Kirk assassination, her hate for Christianity and open

1116
01:12:47,893 --> 01:12:52,133
Speaker 5: debate without even looking at his debates is disgraceful. I

1117
01:12:52,173 --> 01:12:56,013
Speaker 5: feel many Kiwis have an animosity towards Christianity in general.

1118
01:12:56,333 --> 01:13:00,333
Speaker 5: The Ten Commandments were the bedrock for Western values. Kirk

1119
01:13:00,413 --> 01:13:02,813
Speaker 5: stood for common sense and I don't know where New

1120
01:13:02,893 --> 01:13:06,653
Speaker 5: Zealand lost its way in this respect. People are chastising

1121
01:13:06,733 --> 01:13:10,173
Speaker 5: him without even looking at his debate, and it's approached unreal.

1122
01:13:10,813 --> 01:13:13,133
Speaker 5: God bless Charlie Kirk, says Adam.

1123
01:13:13,853 --> 01:13:18,333
Speaker 2: New Zealand lost its approach to common sense through education,

1124
01:13:18,893 --> 01:13:26,933
Speaker 2: through politics, through being bought by politicians, quite seriously, and

1125
01:13:26,413 --> 01:13:32,773
Speaker 2: I can outline it for you anytime now. From Claire Layton.

1126
01:13:32,853 --> 01:13:36,333
Speaker 2: Occasionally I'll read your email preview and think I wouldn't

1127
01:13:36,333 --> 01:13:40,213
Speaker 2: be interested in your upcoming interview. Then I listened to

1128
01:13:40,293 --> 01:13:43,533
Speaker 2: your intro, which piques my interest, and I listened to

1129
01:13:43,573 --> 01:13:47,653
Speaker 2: the end. This happened today with Louise Klegg. When she returns,

1130
01:13:47,853 --> 01:13:51,213
Speaker 2: I'll look forward to listening. And the letter about schools

1131
01:13:51,253 --> 01:13:54,733
Speaker 2: in Maryland was nothing new to me. While I've lived

1132
01:13:54,773 --> 01:13:58,453
Speaker 2: in New Zealand since nineteen eighty six, I grew up

1133
01:13:58,453 --> 01:14:02,493
Speaker 2: in Baltimore when it was pretty nice. Even then, my

1134
01:14:02,613 --> 01:14:07,253
Speaker 2: siblings and I went to parochial and private schools. As

1135
01:14:07,293 --> 01:14:12,973
Speaker 2: with many states, Maryland has twenty three percent Republican registered voters,

1136
01:14:13,253 --> 01:14:18,133
Speaker 2: but due to gerrymandering with eight congressional districts, has only

1137
01:14:18,213 --> 01:14:23,253
Speaker 2: one Republican congressman. Statistically, that doesn't seem too bad, but

1138
01:14:23,373 --> 01:14:27,533
Speaker 2: considering much of Maryland as rural and therefore more conservative,

1139
01:14:27,813 --> 01:14:32,013
Speaker 2: there should be more Republican congressional delegates. Some states are

1140
01:14:32,053 --> 01:14:38,213
Speaker 2: even worse, Massachusetts among them. Claire, appreciate your input and

1141
01:14:38,293 --> 01:14:41,973
Speaker 2: your experience, and there's plenty more to be said about.

1142
01:14:41,813 --> 01:14:46,213
Speaker 5: It, Layton Chris says, further to discussion about Angler Merkel

1143
01:14:46,293 --> 01:14:49,293
Speaker 5: and recent podcasts, it is hard to understand how she

1144
01:14:49,373 --> 01:14:53,213
Speaker 5: opened Germany's borders in twenty fifteen, letting in over a

1145
01:14:53,293 --> 01:14:57,333
Speaker 5: million migrants, mainly from Africa and Turkey, given that on

1146
01:14:57,373 --> 01:15:01,973
Speaker 5: the sixteenth of October twenty ten, she said that multiculturalism

1147
01:15:02,013 --> 01:15:05,333
Speaker 5: was a failure. Further to James Allen pointing out that

1148
01:15:05,373 --> 01:15:08,173
Speaker 5: a number of mass murderers in the US are transpeople.

1149
01:15:08,653 --> 01:15:12,373
Speaker 5: In an editorial in Sydney's The Catholic Weekly of the

1150
01:15:12,413 --> 01:15:15,773
Speaker 5: seventh of September, it was pointed out that nearly all

1151
01:15:15,813 --> 01:15:20,053
Speaker 5: mass shooters are from broken families. Finally, says Chris on

1152
01:15:20,093 --> 01:15:23,893
Speaker 5: a happier note. Further to discussion about cinnamon tea and

1153
01:15:23,933 --> 01:15:28,173
Speaker 5: cinnamon flavored foods and podcasts, three oh one, another cinnamon

1154
01:15:28,293 --> 01:15:32,013
Speaker 5: product you might like has Biscoff biscuits and Biscoff spread,

1155
01:15:32,253 --> 01:15:34,133
Speaker 5: both of which are cinnamon flavors.

1156
01:15:34,173 --> 01:15:34,573
Speaker 2: Do you know that?

1157
01:15:35,893 --> 01:15:39,493
Speaker 5: I thought no, I thought that had something to do

1158
01:15:39,573 --> 01:15:43,613
Speaker 5: with bananas. I think it's or is it even biscoffy?

1159
01:15:43,693 --> 01:15:44,133
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1160
01:15:44,493 --> 01:15:48,013
Speaker 5: I first came across Piscoff when our local takeaway stores

1161
01:15:48,053 --> 01:15:51,573
Speaker 5: started giving customers a free biscuit with coffee. This happened

1162
01:15:51,573 --> 01:15:54,173
Speaker 5: about three years ago until we finally started to see

1163
01:15:54,173 --> 01:15:57,653
Speaker 5: them on sale along with the spread. So that could

1164
01:15:57,693 --> 01:15:58,693
Speaker 5: be your new obsession.

1165
01:15:58,853 --> 01:16:01,733
Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you something. I did a search

1166
01:16:01,773 --> 01:16:05,733
Speaker 2: on it. When I pulled that course, I did a

1167
01:16:05,733 --> 01:16:08,533
Speaker 2: search on it. Guess where you can get them? New

1168
01:16:08,573 --> 01:16:10,853
Speaker 2: World the Warehouse. Yeah you can.

1169
01:16:11,053 --> 01:16:13,333
Speaker 5: You'll be apparently are you going after this.

1170
01:16:13,453 --> 01:16:16,253
Speaker 2: As soon as we've finished. I'll do the editing later.

1171
01:16:16,333 --> 01:16:17,293
Speaker 4: I actually bet you are.

1172
01:16:18,493 --> 01:16:20,573
Speaker 2: But let me tell you something. I will be going

1173
01:16:20,693 --> 01:16:24,213
Speaker 2: up before the podcast comes out because I don't want

1174
01:16:24,213 --> 01:16:25,293
Speaker 2: to get clean shelves.

1175
01:16:26,773 --> 01:16:28,413
Speaker 5: Actually, I'm going to go and make a cup of

1176
01:16:28,453 --> 01:16:31,973
Speaker 5: cinnamon tea very shortly, very much new cinnamon tea.

1177
01:16:32,373 --> 01:16:35,493
Speaker 2: Let me look, I just want to have a word

1178
01:16:35,533 --> 01:16:38,893
Speaker 2: with Gary, Gary Judd k C. Gary. It's a very

1179
01:16:38,933 --> 01:16:42,053
Speaker 2: long piece that you've sent, and I'm going to save

1180
01:16:42,093 --> 01:16:45,093
Speaker 2: it till next week for two reasons. One because I'll

1181
01:16:45,093 --> 01:16:46,773
Speaker 2: have to skinny it down a bit, but the other

1182
01:16:46,773 --> 01:16:51,453
Speaker 2: one because I've got to feature it now finally from Stewart.

1183
01:16:52,493 --> 01:16:54,213
Speaker 2: For some reason, I look at this and I think,

1184
01:16:54,373 --> 01:16:57,293
Speaker 2: did we broadcast this last week? And the answer is no.

1185
01:16:57,413 --> 01:16:59,693
Speaker 2: We couldn't have because it was written two days after

1186
01:16:59,813 --> 01:17:03,213
Speaker 2: the podcast. But I must have read it and or

1187
01:17:03,253 --> 01:17:05,693
Speaker 2: glanced at it, and it looks familiar. So listen up.

1188
01:17:06,373 --> 01:17:09,653
Speaker 2: Greetings to you both. I'm loving you podcasts and commentaries.

1189
01:17:09,973 --> 01:17:13,253
Speaker 2: Well I've finally done it. After subscribing to the New

1190
01:17:13,333 --> 01:17:16,373
Speaker 2: Zealand Herald for twenty five years, I've canceled my subscription.

1191
01:17:16,973 --> 01:17:20,493
Speaker 2: Although I enjoy the politics and business writers of note

1192
01:17:20,693 --> 01:17:24,973
Speaker 2: Thomas Coglan deserves praise, I have finally lost the plot.

1193
01:17:26,213 --> 01:17:30,893
Speaker 2: The editorials are unfailingly economically left wing and tree hugging.

1194
01:17:30,973 --> 01:17:35,053
Speaker 2: Green articles consistently promote a new name for our country

1195
01:17:35,093 --> 01:17:39,973
Speaker 2: and insert Mari language throughout articles, often to the seemingly

1196
01:17:40,413 --> 01:17:46,293
Speaker 2: deliberate detriment of non ter reo speaker's comprehension. The Herald's

1197
01:17:46,333 --> 01:17:49,933
Speaker 2: letters page may well reflect the letters received, but having

1198
01:17:49,973 --> 01:17:52,493
Speaker 2: had dozens of letters published over the years, I have

1199
01:17:52,613 --> 01:17:55,853
Speaker 2: noted a decline in the quality of correspondence and a

1200
01:17:55,933 --> 01:18:00,773
Speaker 2: reluctance to publish anything challenging our country's anti nucleus stants

1201
01:18:01,093 --> 01:18:06,573
Speaker 2: net zero madness or suggesting electric power system does not

1202
01:18:06,773 --> 01:18:12,573
Speaker 2: need nationalizing. Furthermore, an uncompromising pro Palestinian stance of the

1203
01:18:12,733 --> 01:18:18,373
Speaker 2: editorial position and published correspondence is borderline anti Semitic. The

1204
01:18:18,413 --> 01:18:22,293
Speaker 2: cartoonists are surely members of the Commonist Party and suffer

1205
01:18:22,373 --> 01:18:27,493
Speaker 2: from intractable Trump derangement syndrome. Enough is enough, the spectator

1206
01:18:27,653 --> 01:18:31,173
Speaker 2: at a straighted financial review will receive my dollars in future.

1207
01:18:31,693 --> 01:18:33,893
Speaker 2: I read that because I think I think it's fair,

1208
01:18:34,893 --> 01:18:37,733
Speaker 2: and I've heard many many people say it, and I'd

1209
01:18:37,733 --> 01:18:41,813
Speaker 2: be very interested in receiving more correspondence of a similar

1210
01:18:41,893 --> 01:18:46,533
Speaker 2: nature or a countering one, if you have feelings in

1211
01:18:46,573 --> 01:18:51,173
Speaker 2: either direction anyway. Stewart goes on, I enjoyed the interview

1212
01:18:51,213 --> 01:18:54,573
Speaker 2: with your son. I have three similarly aged children scattered

1213
01:18:54,573 --> 01:18:59,973
Speaker 2: across the globe. Christian's perspectives were valuable, but as an

1214
01:18:59,973 --> 01:19:03,293
Speaker 2: ex pom myself, I can tell that he has not

1215
01:19:03,413 --> 01:19:06,453
Speaker 2: fully realized, or at least expressed, the nearest state of

1216
01:19:06,493 --> 01:19:11,893
Speaker 2: civilizational war that the UK is facing. London is surprisingly

1217
01:19:11,973 --> 01:19:15,453
Speaker 2: an oasis compared to vast swathes of the Midlands and

1218
01:19:15,733 --> 01:19:20,053
Speaker 2: northern England. In particular, despite his recognition of the knife

1219
01:19:20,053 --> 01:19:24,853
Speaker 2: crime epidemic and Great Britain's economic failure. He will reach

1220
01:19:24,933 --> 01:19:29,413
Speaker 2: this conclusion as the demographic situation spirals out of control

1221
01:19:29,733 --> 01:19:34,373
Speaker 2: and he his friends and family are subjected to Islamic sharia,

1222
01:19:34,893 --> 01:19:39,173
Speaker 2: unbearable taxation, and street crime. By the type of questions

1223
01:19:39,213 --> 01:19:42,053
Speaker 2: you asked, I know that you are fully cognizant of

1224
01:19:42,093 --> 01:19:46,333
Speaker 2: the impending crisis, but I shall put Christian's hopefulness down

1225
01:19:46,373 --> 01:19:49,533
Speaker 2: to youth. This may be the last decade in which

1226
01:19:49,573 --> 01:19:52,533
Speaker 2: London has any attraction to young New Zealanders looking for

1227
01:19:52,573 --> 01:19:56,293
Speaker 2: a oe. Eastern Europe, especially Poland and Hungary, seem far

1228
01:19:56,413 --> 01:20:00,053
Speaker 2: more likely to offer a safe and enjoyable haven for

1229
01:20:00,093 --> 01:20:02,933
Speaker 2: a few years of European work and traveling. Keep up,

1230
01:20:03,373 --> 01:20:06,213
Speaker 2: keep it up, Laban eravans. Do you want to comment

1231
01:20:06,253 --> 01:20:06,813
Speaker 2: on that at all.

1232
01:20:07,053 --> 01:20:08,813
Speaker 5: Well, I was just thinking I'm not sure about Poland

1233
01:20:08,813 --> 01:20:12,253
Speaker 5: at the moment, but I think Stuart's right in a way.

1234
01:20:12,453 --> 01:20:16,893
Speaker 5: It's youthful exuberance of life, really, and as you get older,

1235
01:20:16,893 --> 01:20:19,973
Speaker 5: you do you can look at these things a bit

1236
01:20:20,013 --> 01:20:22,973
Speaker 5: more objectively and kind of see what's wrong with the

1237
01:20:22,973 --> 01:20:25,853
Speaker 5: city that you love the most. London's always been a

1238
01:20:25,893 --> 01:20:30,933
Speaker 5: melting pot of cultures, whether or not it's worse now

1239
01:20:31,293 --> 01:20:33,573
Speaker 5: we don't live there. I don't live there anymore so

1240
01:20:34,533 --> 01:20:37,933
Speaker 5: but to me it always looks exactly like it was

1241
01:20:37,973 --> 01:20:39,613
Speaker 5: when I left thirty years ago.

1242
01:20:40,053 --> 01:20:42,093
Speaker 2: When you've got a loser of a prime minister like

1243
01:20:42,133 --> 01:20:43,733
Speaker 2: you have at the moment, They've had a string of them,

1244
01:20:43,933 --> 01:20:48,893
Speaker 2: but this one is obnoxious. When you've got someone like

1245
01:20:48,973 --> 01:20:52,653
Speaker 2: him in control, and please not for much longer, and

1246
01:20:52,733 --> 01:20:56,533
Speaker 2: same for the mayor, then you know that you were

1247
01:20:56,573 --> 01:20:57,293
Speaker 2: in strife.

1248
01:20:57,493 --> 01:21:00,613
Speaker 5: And I think the opposition isn't much stronger. I don't

1249
01:21:00,613 --> 01:21:02,613
Speaker 5: think Kimmy Badden not's got much.

1250
01:21:02,693 --> 01:21:03,693
Speaker 2: Oh she's gone?

1251
01:21:04,173 --> 01:21:05,373
Speaker 5: Is that how you say her name?

1252
01:21:05,453 --> 01:21:08,693
Speaker 2: I think so that'll do, missus, producer, thank you, thank

1253
01:21:08,733 --> 01:21:12,693
Speaker 2: you later, I think it's time for another learning trip

1254
01:21:13,093 --> 01:21:13,733
Speaker 2: to London.

1255
01:21:14,693 --> 01:21:15,773
Speaker 5: I'm always game to.

1256
01:21:17,613 --> 01:21:20,893
Speaker 2: Verify yes, some of what we think and don't think.

1257
01:21:20,933 --> 01:21:22,173
Speaker 5: Can we plan one for next year?

1258
01:21:22,853 --> 01:21:23,573
Speaker 2: Walk to the bank.

1259
01:21:24,773 --> 01:21:25,213
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1260
01:21:42,333 --> 01:21:45,173
Speaker 2: I said earlier that I would read this entire article

1261
01:21:45,213 --> 01:21:48,013
Speaker 2: by Adam Crichton's three pages not that long, and it

1262
01:21:48,093 --> 01:21:50,613
Speaker 2: was in The Australian over the last weekend. Keeping in

1263
01:21:50,653 --> 01:21:54,973
Speaker 2: mind that Adam Crichton has a long history of journalism,

1264
01:21:55,133 --> 01:22:01,693
Speaker 2: specifically regarding economics. He was The Australian's Economic editor for

1265
01:22:02,333 --> 01:22:07,253
Speaker 2: some time, and he is now, as I mentioned, senior

1266
01:22:07,253 --> 01:22:10,253
Speaker 2: Fellow and Chief Economist at the Institute of Public Affairs

1267
01:22:10,373 --> 01:22:14,333
Speaker 2: in Sydney. And it goes like this net zero credibility

1268
01:22:14,453 --> 01:22:18,893
Speaker 2: in fantasy policy, from the barely believable to the absurd.

1269
01:22:19,573 --> 01:22:22,493
Speaker 2: Were there any lingering doubts that we've entered a post

1270
01:22:22,613 --> 01:22:27,413
Speaker 2: rational world where feelings and fantasies govern public policy. Feelings

1271
01:22:27,413 --> 01:22:33,533
Speaker 2: and fantasies govern public policy. They were snuffed out on

1272
01:22:33,613 --> 01:22:37,293
Speaker 2: Thursday when the government told voters that two plus two

1273
01:22:37,333 --> 01:22:40,613
Speaker 2: equals five in what must rank as one of the

1274
01:22:40,613 --> 01:22:45,013
Speaker 2: most brazen public policy announcements in Australian history. Anthony Alberonizi,

1275
01:22:45,173 --> 01:22:51,653
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, Jim Chalmers, Treasurer and Chris Bowen, climate Change Minister,

1276
01:22:52,013 --> 01:22:56,133
Speaker 2: promised to radically restructure the Australian economy within a decade

1277
01:22:56,373 --> 01:23:00,613
Speaker 2: at zero cost, even setting aside the laughable notion that

1278
01:23:00,653 --> 01:23:03,933
Speaker 2: cutting Australia's one point one percent share of global emissions

1279
01:23:03,973 --> 01:23:09,733
Speaker 2: would make a measurable dents in global climate patterns was absurd.

1280
01:23:09,853 --> 01:23:12,613
Speaker 2: Not only would a new plan to slash carbon dioxide

1281
01:23:12,653 --> 01:23:16,253
Speaker 2: emissions by sixty two to seventy percent from two thousand

1282
01:23:16,253 --> 01:23:20,813
Speaker 2: and five levels by twenty thirty five cost to nothing,

1283
01:23:21,853 --> 01:23:25,573
Speaker 2: it would supposedly be a boon for jobs, growth, incomes

1284
01:23:25,613 --> 01:23:29,653
Speaker 2: and the environment. We were told the Treasurer unveiled modeling

1285
01:23:29,893 --> 01:23:33,973
Speaker 2: asserting that the costs of not pursuing that zero would

1286
01:23:33,973 --> 01:23:39,333
Speaker 2: be significant and consequential, and exceed the costs of following

1287
01:23:39,333 --> 01:23:43,493
Speaker 2: the government's far more coercive plan, and affront to the

1288
01:23:43,533 --> 01:23:47,133
Speaker 2: economic principles that suggest individuals and businesses should be free

1289
01:23:47,173 --> 01:23:51,333
Speaker 2: to choose how to invest. Indeed, we are asked to

1290
01:23:51,413 --> 01:23:57,333
Speaker 2: believe that forcing hundreds of billions ultimately trillions of dollars

1291
01:23:57,373 --> 01:24:02,613
Speaker 2: into wind and solar, whose intermittency and inefficiency have consistently

1292
01:24:02,653 --> 01:24:06,293
Speaker 2: pushed up power prices wherever they've been rolled out would

1293
01:24:06,333 --> 01:24:10,093
Speaker 2: be cheaper than doing nothing. For all the talk at

1294
01:24:10,093 --> 01:24:14,253
Speaker 2: the press conference of the Science, actual science based on

1295
01:24:14,493 --> 01:24:18,373
Speaker 2: observation and evidence was nowhere to be found. In Treasury

1296
01:24:18,453 --> 01:24:23,653
Speaker 2: fifty four pages of voodoo economics across all scenarios. Global

1297
01:24:23,693 --> 01:24:27,813
Speaker 2: mitigation action is assumed to be sufficient to ensure global

1298
01:24:27,813 --> 01:24:31,053
Speaker 2: temperatures are kept well below two degrees centigrade by the

1299
01:24:31,133 --> 01:24:34,773
Speaker 2: end of this century. According to the document. In other words,

1300
01:24:35,453 --> 01:24:38,813
Speaker 2: Treasury simply assumed the world will achieve net zero by

1301
01:24:38,853 --> 01:24:44,693
Speaker 2: twenty fifty, a proposition that is patently and increasingly false.

1302
01:24:46,373 --> 01:24:49,253
Speaker 2: You can tell that mister Crichton had a lot of

1303
01:24:49,253 --> 01:24:54,533
Speaker 2: fun writing this. According to the International Energy Agency, global

1304
01:24:54,573 --> 01:24:59,253
Speaker 2: carbon dioxide emissions have risen sixty three percent since nations solemnly,

1305
01:24:59,973 --> 01:25:03,453
Speaker 2: solemnly agreed to cut them at Kyoto in nineteen ninety seven.

1306
01:25:04,173 --> 01:25:08,213
Speaker 2: They have increased almost every year since, including rising by

1307
01:25:08,413 --> 01:25:12,533
Speaker 2: almost one percent last year. Alban Easy offered a fun

1308
01:25:12,613 --> 01:25:16,973
Speaker 2: fact since quotes a fun fact that China has almost

1309
01:25:17,013 --> 01:25:19,933
Speaker 2: twice as much wind and solar under construction as the

1310
01:25:20,133 --> 01:25:23,813
Speaker 2: rest of the world combined. But this trivia is meaningless.

1311
01:25:24,213 --> 01:25:28,173
Speaker 2: China is big. The climate doesn't care about national trivia

1312
01:25:28,413 --> 01:25:32,013
Speaker 2: or treasuries gushing over one sixty five net zero commitments,

1313
01:25:32,933 --> 01:25:37,693
Speaker 2: it cares about total emissions, and China began building almost

1314
01:25:37,773 --> 01:25:42,493
Speaker 2: ninety five gigawatts of new coal power plants last year alone,

1315
01:25:42,653 --> 01:25:47,173
Speaker 2: the highest on record, at about four times Australia's coal

1316
01:25:47,253 --> 01:25:51,253
Speaker 2: power fleet. Meanwhile, after trillions of dollars in investment and

1317
01:25:51,453 --> 01:25:57,253
Speaker 2: endless hype, wind and solar together contributed just just I say,

1318
01:25:57,573 --> 01:26:01,053
Speaker 2: just three point one percent of global energy supply in

1319
01:26:01,093 --> 01:26:06,813
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, according to the IEA. While global emissions

1320
01:26:06,853 --> 01:26:09,853
Speaker 2: may soon plato, the idea that they will collapse to

1321
01:26:09,933 --> 01:26:15,333
Speaker 2: net zero or near zero by twenty fifty is ludicrous. Indeed,

1322
01:26:15,373 --> 01:26:20,733
Speaker 2: electricity demand from artificial intelligence data centers alone is expected

1323
01:26:20,733 --> 01:26:24,133
Speaker 2: to double by twenty thirty two about nine hundred forty

1324
01:26:24,133 --> 01:26:26,893
Speaker 2: five terra watt ours. Just settle for the fact that

1325
01:26:26,933 --> 01:26:32,533
Speaker 2: it's huge, slightly more than all of Japan's electricity consumption treasuries.

1326
01:26:32,573 --> 01:26:37,773
Speaker 2: Modeling hinges on heroic projections of booming demand for clean energy,

1327
01:26:37,893 --> 01:26:43,533
Speaker 2: embedded export industries undefined, non existent, and perhaps too embarrassing

1328
01:26:43,573 --> 01:26:47,533
Speaker 2: to call by their real name. Green Hydrogen, which had

1329
01:26:47,533 --> 01:26:53,253
Speaker 2: failed repeatedly to deliver commercial returns despite billions billions in subsidies.

1330
01:26:54,173 --> 01:26:57,013
Speaker 2: The Soviets would have been proud of Bowen's grandiose net

1331
01:26:57,133 --> 01:27:02,413
Speaker 2: zero plan, unveiled alongside six sector plans. Quote to show

1332
01:27:02,453 --> 01:27:05,973
Speaker 2: industry and investors what the government thinks is the most

1333
01:27:06,253 --> 01:27:12,253
Speaker 2: feasible decarbonization pathway. Close quote. Not pursuing that zero, Treasury

1334
01:27:12,293 --> 01:27:16,973
Speaker 2: warns would result in capital quote again in capital misallocation

1335
01:27:17,173 --> 01:27:23,133
Speaker 2: as businesses invest without clear direction. Close quote. Heaven forbid,

1336
01:27:23,213 --> 01:27:29,413
Speaker 2: businesses invest without government direction. An esteemed Canadian scientist Vaclav

1337
01:27:29,493 --> 01:27:33,853
Speaker 2: Smill noted last year the world's first energy revolution from

1338
01:27:34,133 --> 01:27:37,853
Speaker 2: wood to fossil fuels, or from a less to a

1339
01:27:37,893 --> 01:27:41,893
Speaker 2: more efficient energy source, took two centuries, two hundred years,

1340
01:27:42,293 --> 01:27:47,613
Speaker 2: and still wasn't complete. Almost three billion people, that's three billion,

1341
01:27:48,453 --> 01:27:53,333
Speaker 2: almost half the planet today rely primarily on wood straw

1342
01:27:53,573 --> 01:27:57,173
Speaker 2: and dried done for cooking or heating. Believing that we

1343
01:27:57,253 --> 01:28:01,173
Speaker 2: could replace the entire energy foundation of modern civilization within

1344
01:28:01,213 --> 01:28:04,213
Speaker 2: twenty five years, and this time from a more efficient

1345
01:28:04,333 --> 01:28:08,813
Speaker 2: to a less efficient source of energy, was to illusional.

1346
01:28:09,733 --> 01:28:14,853
Speaker 2: Climate Change Authority chair Matt Kean says Australia is positioning

1347
01:28:14,893 --> 01:28:19,053
Speaker 2: itself as a global leader on climate ambition, even the

1348
01:28:19,093 --> 01:28:23,813
Speaker 2: new York Times, bastion of fashionable internationalism, published the lengthy

1349
01:28:23,813 --> 01:28:27,573
Speaker 2: piece this week, lamenting that the whole world has soured

1350
01:28:27,693 --> 01:28:32,013
Speaker 2: on climate politics, noting the obvious collapse of interest in

1351
01:28:32,053 --> 01:28:36,373
Speaker 2: net zero across societies and governments. In short, there will

1352
01:28:36,373 --> 01:28:39,853
Speaker 2: be no net zero by twenty fifty, and there is

1353
01:28:39,933 --> 01:28:44,533
Speaker 2: no transition. The central assumption underpinning the government's modeling is

1354
01:28:44,573 --> 01:28:48,853
Speaker 2: simply wrong. Matt Kean, chair of the Climate Change Authority,

1355
01:28:49,333 --> 01:28:53,773
Speaker 2: said the government was positioning Australia as a global leader

1356
01:28:53,893 --> 01:28:59,493
Speaker 2: on climate ambition. If only Treasury had modeled the likely outcome,

1357
01:28:59,613 --> 01:29:03,573
Speaker 2: if the world simply ignored Australia's supposed climate leadership, it

1358
01:29:03,653 --> 01:29:06,853
Speaker 2: is sad to see our leaders spout such logical and

1359
01:29:06,973 --> 01:29:12,453
Speaker 2: empirical nonsense. Achieving the emissions cuts that they propose would

1360
01:29:12,453 --> 01:29:16,053
Speaker 2: require a carbon tax of hundreds of dollars a ton,

1361
01:29:16,453 --> 01:29:19,333
Speaker 2: more than ten times the level briefly imposed by Julia

1362
01:29:19,373 --> 01:29:23,453
Speaker 2: Gillard's government in twenty twelve. Even if the increasingly hysterical

1363
01:29:23,533 --> 01:29:27,213
Speaker 2: climate forecast prove accurate, the rational strategy would be to

1364
01:29:27,253 --> 01:29:31,493
Speaker 2: wait see if the fears are justified, and adapt if necessary,

1365
01:29:32,053 --> 01:29:37,093
Speaker 2: as humans always have. The IPCC itself conceded in twenty

1366
01:29:37,133 --> 01:29:45,293
Speaker 2: fourteen that changes in income, technology, relative prices, lifestyle regulation, governance,

1367
01:29:45,613 --> 01:29:49,853
Speaker 2: and many other aspects of socioeconomic development will have an

1368
01:29:49,893 --> 01:29:54,213
Speaker 2: impact that is large relative to the impact of climate change.

1369
01:29:54,453 --> 01:29:58,213
Speaker 2: And finally flagging his new targets this week, Bowen said

1370
01:29:58,253 --> 01:30:03,813
Speaker 2: he wanted emissions cuts that make Australians proud. He will

1371
01:30:03,853 --> 01:30:06,813
Speaker 2: be right for a time. At least, pride may well

1372
01:30:06,893 --> 01:30:10,653
Speaker 2: be the only positive off they deliver until the massive

1373
01:30:10,733 --> 01:30:15,853
Speaker 2: economic damage becomes clear. Shall I repeat that pride may

1374
01:30:15,933 --> 01:30:20,013
Speaker 2: well be the only positive payoff they deliver until the

1375
01:30:20,053 --> 01:30:26,813
Speaker 2: massive economic damage becomes clear. So conclude us Adam Crichton.

1376
01:30:27,733 --> 01:30:29,973
Speaker 2: Whenever you see his name as a byline, you should

1377
01:30:30,213 --> 01:30:32,853
Speaker 2: read whatever it is he's writing on because he's He's

1378
01:30:32,933 --> 01:30:37,573
Speaker 2: very good anyway. Having delivered that, it's time to go.

1379
01:30:38,133 --> 01:30:40,213
Speaker 2: If you would like to write to us Latent at

1380
01:30:40,253 --> 01:30:43,453
Speaker 2: NEWSTALKSIDB dot co dot nz. If you feel that you

1381
01:30:43,733 --> 01:30:45,853
Speaker 2: can't do it well enough, whatever it is do you

1382
01:30:45,933 --> 01:30:48,773
Speaker 2: want to write, do it anyway? Let me sort it

1383
01:30:48,813 --> 01:30:52,933
Speaker 2: out if I can anyway. Latin at Newstalks ADB dot

1384
01:30:52,973 --> 01:30:58,093
Speaker 2: co dot Nz or Carolyn at newstalksb dot co dot nz.

1385
01:30:59,253 --> 01:31:02,053
Speaker 2: So we are at the end of podcast three oh three,

1386
01:31:02,453 --> 01:31:05,453
Speaker 2: back with three oh four before you know it. Until then,

1387
01:31:05,653 --> 01:31:09,213
Speaker 2: as always, thank you for listening. We will talk soon.

1388
01:31:10,893 --> 01:31:11,693
Speaker 3: M M.

1389
01:31:16,813 --> 01:31:20,453
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks at b Listen

1390
01:31:20,533 --> 01:31:23,493
Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

1391
01:31:23,613 --> 01:31:26,693
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio