1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Yes, the world's longest resignation saga continues. We now have 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: copies of text messages just released by Treasury that confirmed 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,239 Speaker 1: that Adrian all was likely to be sacked if he 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: didn't resign as the Reserve Bank governor. It's transpired now 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: that the process was so advanced that Nikola Willis was 6 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: told she might receive a recommendation from the Reserve Bank's 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: board to remove or Jene Debsraney as The Herald's Wellington 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: business editor and with us hygiename hi, Now tell us 9 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: what you've got under the OA. What's going on here? 10 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: Okay? So I've got copies of text messages between the 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: Head of the Treasury, Ian Rennie and Nikola Willis from 12 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: February twenty seven, So this is shortly before Adrian Or 13 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 2: resigned on March five, and basically Ian Rennie was keeping 14 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 2: Nikola Willis in the loop, saying that Adrian Or had 15 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: chosen to stand down from his role because the Reserve 16 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 2: Bank Board had presented him with a letter of concerns. 17 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: And then he interestingly also said that Neil Quickly, the 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 2: chair of the Board, was his current thinking was that 19 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: Nichola Willis could receive a recommendation. The following week, unleass, 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: a decision was taken for Or to go voluntarily. So 21 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 2: I double checked with the Treasury exactly what Ian Ready meant, 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: and what he was saying was basically, you know that 23 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: Nicolo Willis might receive a recommendation from the Reserve Bank 24 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: Board to start the process of sacking Adrian Or. So 25 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 2: you know, I think what's come to light in recent 26 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: weeks is definitely that there was an element of Adrian 27 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: Or being pushed to resign. That that kind of came 28 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 2: out when the on Bisman forced the Reserve Bank to 29 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 2: release some more information. But what this shows was that 30 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 2: the process was fairly well advanced and that you know, 31 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: Nichola Willis was warned that, yeah, look she needs to 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: get ready to consider whether whether she wants to sack him. 33 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: Is this bad for Nichola Willis. 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: I think it is. I think it is bad because 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: the buck does. I mean, this whole thing is a 36 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: shamozzle and the buck does stop with the minister. But 37 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: Nicholallis has defended herself here. She said, look, the reason 38 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 2: she hasn't come out earlier to say this is the 39 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 2: real story. This is what happened is because she wanted 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: to make sure she upheld the Reserve Bank's independence and 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: that she didn't get involved in a employment dispute that 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: she wasn't party to. You know, she she was wary 43 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 2: of the fact that there was that Adrian or disputed 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: the letter of concerns and then the letter was ultimately bimmed, 45 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: So she didn't want to say something that contravened that agreement, 46 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 2: you know, that could cause a big old legal stoush. 47 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: So she has really tried to distance herself. Interestingly, this week, 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: Barbara Edmonds of Labor has jumped on board this issue 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: and has been interrogating Nickoloblis pretty forensically in the House 50 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: to try to try to draw out some information. 51 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it does. It does feel like a 52 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: bit of bollocks for Nikolay willis right because she was 53 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: asked repeatedly, like to the point where I became embarrassed 54 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: at actually asking her any more questions about it, and 55 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: she never faced up anything. So it's hard for her 56 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: to defend this. But having said that, in the interim, 57 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: she has managed to get rid of Neil Quigley, So 58 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: does that save her. 59 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think the thing that Nicola Willis should 60 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: have done is put greater pressure on the Reserve Bank 61 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 2: than she did to come clean with the story sooner. 62 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: So Nickola Willis says that she did put pressure on 63 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: the Reserve Bank board, and that is that is correct. 64 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: We've seen evidence of that publicly and privately. But ultimately 65 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: the pressure that she put on the board wasn't enough, 66 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: and the board only the Reserve Bank only released more 67 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: information after the Ombardsman intervened, and then ultimately Nichola Willis 68 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: only got Neil Quiggley to resign after this all came out, 69 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: and that was only a couple of weeks ago. So 70 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: I think the thing that it's a tough Nichola Willis 71 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: wasn't a tough situation. The thing she should have done 72 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: was put greater pressure on the Reserve Bank board. But 73 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: it's a tough one because you know, she does not 74 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: want to be seen to be interfering with the Reserve Bank. 75 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: But I think actually something people should realize is that 76 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: there's one thing for the Reserve Bank to be accountable 77 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: to the government. That's fine, it's a whole other thing 78 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 2: if the government gets involved in o CR decisions and 79 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: what we're talking about here has nothing to do with 80 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: ocr decisions. It's all about accountability. 81 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: Now, look looking at it from from from the outside right, 82 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: it looks to me like Nichola Willis as a financement 83 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,119 Speaker 1: is under an incredible amount of pressure. She's she's clearly 84 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: stuffed up here. She's she's got rid of Neil quickly 85 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: as a result she stuffed up on the bust of stuff. 86 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: She got very close to stuffing up on the supermarket 87 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: stuff and saved it at the very end. Is she 88 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: when you see her in the corridors of Parliament, does 89 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: she look like she's under pressure? 90 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: I think today she she looked a bit exasperated by 91 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: this saga. I mean, it's always tough when politicians talk 92 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: a big game in terms of fixing some fairly massive 93 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: problems and then they don't delivery. And I think that 94 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: that is what's happened here. But if you've see Nichola 95 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: Willis compared to her pairs other politicians, she is a 96 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 2: very good politician. You know, she is good at communicating 97 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 2: and and so on. So but I think in this instance, 98 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: I'm I'm disappointed by the lot of them. Actually, I 99 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: can't even distinguish anymore between who's most culpable. I just 100 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: feel like, as a member of the public, I've been 101 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: mislead and it's disappointing. 102 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it just looks like a giant cover up, doesn't it. Jane, 103 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: Thanks very much, appreciate it, Janet to Tcherani, the Herald's 104 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: Wellington Business editor. 105 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 106 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 107 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.