1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: What is going on with New Zealand's relationship with Pacific nations. 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, it was Winston telling off 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: the president of Kidabas for refusing a meeting, and over 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: the weekend the Foreign mister releasing a very harsh statement 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: directed at the Cook Islands and their Prime Minister Mark Brown. 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: Now he's off swaning around Beijing at the moment, signing 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: a deal that we don't know the contents of the 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: Opposition doesn't know the contents of in the Cooks. Anna 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Pols is an associate professor in Secure Studies at Massi University. 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: She joins me this afternoon, Hianna. Is it unusual to 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: have two spats like this in such a short space 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: of time. 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think for New Zealand it is particularly unusual 14 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: and it certainly doesn't reflect the type of more sensitive 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: diplomatic engagement that we are we are used to New 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: Zealand conducting in the region. 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: With the issue to do with the Cook Islands, there's 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: been a suggestion, in fact, Matthew Howton's written an article 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: today in The Herald and he has said that the 20 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: Prime Minister should be looking, should be considering at the 21 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: very least getting advice on military options to deal with this. 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: Do you think that's a little over the top. 23 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 2: I think that's extraordinarily irresponsible and pretty ill informed actually, 24 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: as a response to what's happened with between New Zealand 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: and Cook Olans. 26 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: But they are technically part of our country, aren't they. 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: They're part of our realm. The are New Zealand citizens 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: as well, I suppose, and we're supposed to handle the 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: defense side of things. We're supposed to handle the foreign affairs. 30 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: So if they'reof you know, being wined and dined in 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: Beijing's signing deals we don't know about, then that should 32 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: be concerning for us, shouldn't it. 33 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's important to be clear that actually, 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: under the two thousand and one Declaration between New Zealand 35 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: and the Islands, when it comes to the conduct of 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: its foreign affairs, the Cook Islands can do so as 37 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: a sovereign, independent actor within the international community. So they 38 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 2: are very much in their rights to participate and to 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 2: undertake foreign policy decisions themselves without oversight from New Zealand. 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 2: What the two thousand and one Declaration does call for 41 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: is for both parties to undertake consultation with the other 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: on foreign policy issues which may be of concern, and 43 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: this obviously is an issue that is of concern. 44 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: So they are breaching that agreement. 45 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: No, well, they are probably breaching the spirit of it. Certainly, 46 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: there is obviously a clear expectation by Foreign Minister Peters 47 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: that Prime Minister Mark Brown and the Cook Islands government 48 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: would have discussed the agreement with China before perhaps entering 49 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: into it. And obviously two thousand and one when that 50 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: declaration was signed between Wellington and Raratana, it was a 51 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: very different strategic environment than it is now. So New 52 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 2: Zealand's concerns with respect to China as an increasingly influential 53 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: actor and a disruptive actor in the Pacific are valid. 54 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your time this afternoon. Andre 55 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: Analysis Anna Pol's Associate Professor and Security Studies at Massi University. 56 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 57 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 58 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.