WEBVTT - Cracking the mainstream with crypto giant Kraken 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.280 Korda and welcome to Shared Lunch. We're in a sunny 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 and pretty windy San Francisco standing here on the Golden 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.000 Gate Bridge, and today we've got another suspecial episode. It's Cracking, 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.920 and we'll be speaking with co CEO Dave Ripley. 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.120 Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.440 start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.960 We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.600 Everything you're about to see and here is current at 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:30.520 the time of recording. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.720 Dave, Welcome to Shared Lunch. Thanks so much for joining us. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:34.520 Great to be here. 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.839 Hey, it's been a whirlwind trip for us. You're seeking 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.080 on our US tour and was really cool on the 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.480 plane in Washington, d C. This morning. In a great 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:45.839 place to start, I thought, which was we're really headlined 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:50.040 that Cracking signs a contract with the government, So I 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:51.760 thought maybe you could start by telling us a little 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.200 bit about the breaking news. 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.600 I never really thought this time would happen where there's 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.520 a huge amount of crypto news. It's coming out of Washington, 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.800 d C. Or any government center for that matter. But 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:10.880 nonetheless we're here. Yeah, so look the news today not 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:12.760 to downplate it all, but I mean I think it's 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.280 one one part and a much bigger, bigger. 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:15.840 Dynamic going on. 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.720 So the news today was, you know, the Department of 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.399 Commerce they're going to publish some of the kind of 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.319 like US economic data on a blockchain. There it'll be 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.640 attested to, you know, validated, time stamped, all that, all 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:32.720 those good things that you kind of get with like 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:38.560 a public blockchain that has you know, at testation and 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:39.640 all those types of things. 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.480 So that's what that's about. 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.640 But there's certainly a bigger story, like around what's going 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.720 on in d C, and you know, specifically with governments 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.160 becoming a customer of crypto. I mean, I think one 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.040 of the more basic and frankly maybe more interesting one 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:59.360 pieces are you know, governments becoming holders a bitcoin. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:01.640 That's happening in the US. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.640 You have the US government doing it, and you have 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.400 a number of states that are saying, hey, you know, 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:13.360 our state sovereign fund is going to start buying bitcoin, 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.359 and that's happening for probably I don't know about four 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.520 or five states already, Texas, Wyoming, a handful of. 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:19.120 Them out there. 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:21.960 We of course see it in other countries El Salvador, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.520 and I don't know exactly what's the latest on, you know, 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.200 across the globe, but yeah, it's interesting and that and 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.920 of itself is of course still just a small part 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:32.520 of all the things that we're seeing kind of come 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.520 out come out of various different governments with regard to crypto. 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:35.919 Yah. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.239 So tell us a little bit about Kraken's customers and 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.519 you know who you're supporting every day to help in 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:42.280 the crypto space. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:43.079 Sure. 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.480 So, look, i'd break it down in three different groups consumer, 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:53.560 professional trader, individual advanced trader institutions. I'll start with that 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:58.440 mental group mentioned before, pro traders, Individual advanced traders. That's 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.080 kind of our sweet spot from our history where we 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.000 really went after first for the audience here if you're 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.480 familiar with like an interactive brokers or something like that, 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.680 but that individual advanced trader is like looking for all 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:16.200 the you know, complex order types, many asset classes, derivatives, leverage, 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:22.840 looking for a sophisticated us with a lot of analytical tools, indicators, 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.959 all of those you know, features that allow them to 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.360 kind of like build trading training strategies and execute on them. 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.239 And then the third thing is probably like highly performance, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.040 low latency, all those types of things. 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:37.040 That's kind of that group. 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.240 That's where we, you know, have built out all of 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.960 those things that I just described, probably better than anyone 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:47.240 else in the industry. More recently, we've moved into consumer. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.440 When I say more recently, probably about four or five 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.840 years ago, and it turns out that after you've built 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.280 all of this more complex stuff for pro, it's actually 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.760 pretty easy to build a more simplified consumer experience, and 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.839 so we've had great success there as well. And then 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.680 finally institutions, so we serve a number of different institutions. 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.440 We kind of break it down in a few different buckets. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.080 One being trading firms, and these are kind of trading 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:17.239 firms again similar to the pro traders, very sophisticated, large 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.520 trading teams do and you know think you know, high 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:26.360 frequency trading firms, you know, trading via a PI, you know, thousands, 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.440 tens of thousands of orders trades per day, that type 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.880 of thing. The next would be asset management firms. So 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.760 this is the big money pensions, endowments, you know, big 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.839 stock phones, big mutual funds, hedge funds, all that type 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.600 of stuff. And then the last would be banks, brokers 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.440 and FinTechs, so cheers these kind of falls in that 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.719 last last category for us. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.240 That flows nicely that the relationship we have Lusheesy, so 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.839 one of the big parts of our process once we 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.920 decided we do crypto and you know, huge amount of 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.840 due diligence around them, like technology, the solutions we can 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.800 offer to our customers. The one thing critical in this 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.800 pace security, So I just love you to share with 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.120 our audience day a little bit about how Kraken thinks 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.120 about security. And you know, particularly given there's been some 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:19.640 very high profile crypto case you know, either hacking or 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.000 security or you know, and ultimately a loss of money. 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.120 So just how you think about that as a business 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.080 or as an individual. 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:27.640 None involve and cracking. 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.120 But yeah, look this is this has been a super 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:34.520 meaningful topic in crypto. 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:35.040 Of course. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.320 You know, it turns out that when you have the 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.159 ability to like hold the funds on your own and 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:48.120 transactions are irreversible, security becomes super meaningful. Lo and behol 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:53.400 probably unsurprising, but you know, cracking has a long history 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.720 in this uh you know, with respect to security, it's 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:01.200 frankly one of the founding tenants of the business. There's 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.280 one of the first really the first crypto exchange out 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.440 there was a company called mount Cox. It ultimately was 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.080 you know hacked, had security issues and went down, but 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.279 actually earlier in its life, there was a security issue 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.040 kind of a couple of years before the one that 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.960 actually took the company down. And when that first security 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.680 event happened, Jesse, the co founder and CEO of Kracken, 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.960 was already in the industry, was already knew many of 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.720 the meaningful people in the industry, and they gave Jesse 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.440 a call because he was already a fantastic entrepreneur, a 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:37.640 tech entrepreneur, and was able to kind of like figure 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.760 out tough, tough challenges and went out there to call 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:42.640 them out there to go help Mount Cox in which 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.400 he did and he you know, helped get them back 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.400 and moving, and on his way back, he you know, 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.400 he had a couple thoughts. One was, Wow, that place 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.080 really isn't doing security the right way and doing all 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.960 the things that they need to do in order to 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.520 you know, be fully sure. The other thing he thought 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:07.640 was someone needs to do that, and that led to Krakeen, 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:09.680 and so that was kind of the foundation of it. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.960 The other co founder of Kracken often refers to Kraken 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.840 as a security company with an exchange on top. But 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.520 really the way we achieve it, I mean it is 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.720 security and depth. It cuts across every function of the company. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.200 It's not just the security team. It's not even just 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.640 the engineering team. You think about customer support and compliance 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.200 and finance and all of these various different teams have 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.920 a role to play. We also have, like one of 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.920 our values is called productively paranoid, and what that really 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:43.480 means is that like productively is the piece of like, hey, 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:48.480 let's not be too paranoid, but let's question things anytime 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.320 there's something that doesn't look like as it should be 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.640 for whatever reason. And that might just be like, oh, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.960 hey someone forgot to do X y Z. Is that 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.080 is that really intentional or not? Let's look into it. 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.160 And that pervades across all two thousand plus krackenites, And 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.000 that's a really meaningful part of like how we like 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.040 pervade security across every corner of the company. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:11.680 So we take it super seriously. 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.240 We know that it's not always top of mind for 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:18.440 our customers, but over time, we think kind of investing 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.720 in that leads to a lot of trust, whether it's 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.040 whether it's clear where that trust is coming from or not, 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.679 or that it's just Kracking's known to be highly trusted. 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.920 What are the other values of the of the company, 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.360 like the I like the waiting, like productively. 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:34.000 Parently, productively, period. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.600 So like most of the value set for Kraken is 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.640 really tied to crypto values, right, and so crypto values 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.040 are kind of this like, you know, frankly this in 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.560 a way libertarian set of values about you know, like freedom, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.200 you know, freedom, independence, all these you know, different aspects 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.720 and that's kind of like core to our to our 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.480 value sets. So Kracken's values are very closely tied to 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:00.560 crypto values. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.400 So let's just step back a little bit and talk 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:09.120 a bit more about you. Nine years at Kraken, and 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:10.960 you know, I'd just love to hear a little bit 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:12.640 about how you came to be here, a little bit 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.079 about Dave, but sure. 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.359 Just been about your story. Yeah, So definitely a crypto dinosaur, 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.160 that's for sure. Yeah. 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.840 So yeah, I guess it is nine years in krack 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.959 and I founded a company in the crypto space twenty thirteen, 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.920 so it's actually now been over a decade that have 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.760 been in the space. That company is acquired back Cracking 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:36.880 in twenty sixteen, Glydadira sorry you and that was called 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.080 by Crack in twenty sixteen. So that, you know, like 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.880 you said, puts me in about nine years at Cracking. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:42.559 Most of the time. 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:44.959 I joined as chief operating officer for you know, was 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:46.720 in that role for a good number of years, I 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.920 don't know, six seven or so, and then more recently 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.439 moved into the CEO role and co CEO with Argentzathi. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.160 Right now we have a Coco model she is as well. 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.720 Yeah, yeah, I caught that. That's great. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.080 And prior to the like, what was your you said, 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.719 you're a cryptos dinosaur, but it was you know, it's 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:04.200 not that old. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:05.079 What was the lafe before? 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:09.840 Yeah, so kind of a two part career. Before my 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.200 move into Crypto, so started my cares as an engineer, 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.520 was engineer, an undergrad software engineer. I worked in what 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.839 we called at the time mobile and you know, now, 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.720 of course every company is mobile tech, you know, it 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.320 has mobile devices, but back in this time period it 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:32.120 was very very new. The largest mobile device at the 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:33.040 time was a Palm. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.320 Pilot, right, followed by the BlackBerry. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.640 And then I don't know, it's like some Microsoft devices 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.880 after that or whatever. So early days of mobile, what 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.760 we did is we basically built mobile applications for enterprise software, 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.120 which meant that the company I worked for, Cyclo, they 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.520 eventually got acquired by SAP, and so we're kind of 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.240 mobilizing those types of things that SAP was like, Okay, 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.120 we can't figure out this mobile shit, so let's like 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.319 acquire this company who's already doing it for our software, 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:00.719 you know, kind of independently. 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.760 And so anyways, that's what that's. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.320 What was kind of part one of my career as 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.439 software junior product manageer, then business school, and then I 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.800 worked at BCG or served a bunch of different financial 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.559 services firms, and. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.319 So that was kind of the second place as well. 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.680 Was I was not no, it was it was like 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.120 is one of those things where it was like the 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:22.760 I kind of thought about it as like the the 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.520 in some ways the worst timing possible, because I was 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.160 there in mobile when it was like you know, the 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.480 Palm Pilot and BlackBerry and so forth. And then about 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.840 the time as graduating business school was right right, it 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.520 was two thousand and seven, and that you know, the 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:36.960 iPhone was hitting right. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:42.160 And so I've moved pivoted away from it, which was like, 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.640 you know, you couldn't get worse time. So I actually 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.760 kind of thought about that the many times through the 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.360 Bear and Bull cycles and Crypto where it's. 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:53.120 Like, hey, am I gonna like you know, but you know, 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.079 for a million reasons, I never never wanted to leave Crypto, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.480 and you know, just I'll definitely be in this space 0:11:58.559 --> 0:11:59.720 till I till I die. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.040 Dumably b CG would have been a big player in 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.280 that mobile transition large companies. 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.520 And now just you know, that was sort of the. 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.640 AI change we're going through now and various places has 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.320 been compared to like the last large platform change being mobile, 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.200 Like now, are you seeing any sort of similarities with 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.960 like anything different about what what we're working through at 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:21.319 the moment. 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.559 Yeah, you know, I mean it, I'd be a good 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.920 interest into what you guys are doing in AI as well. 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.360 So we're doing a handful of things, you know. The 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.880 first is we have a number of operational parts of 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.680 the company. You know, this is kind of like what 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.160 I would say like most companies like v one for mobile, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.560 which is we have customer support, we have you know, 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.080 compliance function with big operational teams and they do a 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.560 bunch of work with data and of course interacting with 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.880 customers and all this type of stuff. And we're finding that, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.000 of course, like many companies, we can use AI to 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:56.720 like automate a ton of this ship. 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.640 So that's kind of phase one. Step on what we're doing. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.880 Step two, I would say, is to like build it 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:06.240 more directly into the product. So instead of you know, 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.800 opening up a crack and app where you have like 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.679 an interface and you can go and click on all 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:13.319 the buttons and pull up the lists and all the 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.920 views and graphs and so forth, you just interact with 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:20.360 AI prompt. We also just made an acquisition last week, 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:25.680 we announced Capitalized dot Ai and there they basically have 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.840 some tech where you can build trading outgoes trading strategies 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.360 using AI. It's kind of a prompt and then you 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.080 you can build a different trading strategy and prompt so 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:36.640 and it. 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.880 Like spits out like an algorithms exactly. 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.560 So that I mean, so that's kind of what I 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.600 say is like phase two, where it's more just like 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.960 the product becomes you know, the product and the interface 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:50.240 you know, kind of become AI right, and. 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:50.920 Then phase three. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.520 You know, that's like kind of imaginating what's up to 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.839 our imagination what that is. I mean, I think there 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.240 could be some interesting things, how kind of like crypto 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.280 and AI I'm together actually. 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.080 Going to be my next question. We're havn't you asked 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.200 what we're thinking about? Like, we're having a lot of 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.880 fun at the moment. You know, the operational stuff's happening, right, 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:14.000 like the the adding time to engineers hands and all 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.000 that sort of stuff and with their day, and one 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:17.600 of the things we're having a lot of fun thinking 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.920 about is like eight hundred thousand that were in our 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.640 case a hundred and fifty thousand different UIs or you know, 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.160 because everyone's going to experience this so differently and it 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.760 really does change the you know, change the way. But 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.320 it's super interesting to think about. You know, you're sort 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.280 of right in the middle of these two platform changes 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.720 really right one yeah, yeah, crypto in the block chain 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.360 space and then this AI. So how are they insecting 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.200 in what sort of the future you might see from that? 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.240 Well, you know, I think this is I mean, it's 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.600 definitely we get into the theoretical I mean, there are 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.200 some like crypto AI projects out there and so forth. 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.800 But I mean in a lot of ways. I mean 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.200 again this is this is going to feel pretty theoretical, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:53.880 but in a lot of ways, you know, AI is 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.200 very can can you look at it and be like, hey, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.280 this is very centralizing. And of course that's the you know, 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.880 that's the meme or the even the fear out there 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.600 that there's you know, this what the movies are made of. Right, 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.200 it's like this AI thing is going to take over 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:09.800 humankind and blah blah blah. 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:11.720 Okay, why is it centralizing? 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.760 Well, you need all this compute power you put in 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.560 one place, and these llms they get really sophisticated, and 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.000 you have like you know, one or several lms that 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.440 are very sophisticated, a huge amount of compute power. It 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.720 all kind of sits in one place. Who owns the 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:28.600 switch for it and so forth. It's very different. You know, 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.760 central is you know, a centralized tech is you know, 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.720 quite the exact opposite of crypto. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:36.600 Right, very decentralizing. 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.520 You know, takes something like money, which is you know, 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.840 meaningfully centralized today in central banks and so forth, and 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.880 you have crypto now and it's like very decentralized networks 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.560 are owned by the participants and so on and so forth, right, 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.600 And so you kind of think, and if you're someone 0:15:54.680 --> 0:16:01.680 like you know myself, you look at those two different 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.520 paths and you say, like, okay, well, there's a lot 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:09.000 of benefits of the decentralized approach, and a lot of 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.080 really meaningful benefits, we think, right, you know, it's kind 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.800 of more of the you know, individual and freedom and 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.600 ability to opt in or out and control your own 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.680 participation and all those types of things as opposed to 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:22.480 have it and dictated for you. And that's kind of 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.080 like a great thing for freedom and independence and all 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:27.840 these things that we, like, you know, I think are 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:28.520 pretty important. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:28.800 Right. 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.400 So kind of the question is, well, like, if these 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.800 two things are really big and meaningful, and this one 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:39.000 text seems to be fairly centralized, how can crypto play 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.280 a role to kind of like change that course, or 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.120 actually can we combine the two and actually then have 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.320 some type of like decentralized AI. Even though I just 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.200 got done saying that, like, you know, on the face of. 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:52.640 It, it seems very centralized. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.600 Yeah, So I don't know, I think that's kind of 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.960 like the when I think about crypto and AI and 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.400 the phase three think about like, hey, how can we 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:03.840 how can we pull that off? 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:04.680 Yeah? 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.560 It's because because even like this, like the decentralized nature 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.960 of crypto like these and the centralized world of reserve 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:13.600 banks and this sort of stuff that like they are 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.879 converging ready right coming together, and like how do you 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.000 see that? You sort of see there's a happy five 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.760 path forward for both of them or yeah, like. 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.160 Jumping over to financial services and yeah yeah, so so 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.040 stepping aside from the AI combo, this is a huge 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.800 thing that we're seeing right now today and in crypto 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.400 in our space, which I mean frankly is super relevant 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.679 for our conversation because here we are with a you know, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:46.680 traditional stock equity business, wealth wealth company and that you 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.520 guys are integrating crypto. And the reality is we see 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.240 that across a lot of our markets. We see it 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.320 in Europe, we see it in the US, you know, 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.080 across many of our markets where companies are starting to 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.240 do this or they're in progress of doing this, like 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.080 adding crypto. So you know, banks, brokers, FinTechs right adding 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.000 crypto in to their offerings. We had a similar partnership 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.040 is what Kraken is doing with Chersey's. We did with 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:19.560 boot Bank and which is a large challenger banking in 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.560 Europe and the Netherlands, and they've seen great success with it, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.960 you know, and they have And then we're frankly in 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:30.399 conversation right now with basically all the large banks and 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.760 brokers in the US about. 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:34.240 The same thing. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.639 Now, they might not move quite as quick as you guys, 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.080 or they definitely won't move as quick as you guys. 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:41.600 But you know, lo and Behold. 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.119 I mean they're all like, yeah, they're very serious about 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.280 this path, and they have teams against it, and they're 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.040 you know, getting our fps going and looking to figure 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:52.240 out how they're going to make it happen. 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.359 Like prior to studying at Cheesy's, I worked in a 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.960 bank and this is nine years ago now, and we 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.639 hit the founder of Ethereum come along to speak to 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.240 us at that time, and the Ethereum was tiny at 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.680 the time, so already those conversations were happening, but none 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.000 of the banks have made progress really and actually delivering that. 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.200 But I can you know, it feels like there's now 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.800 evidence of that happening, right Like there's really large brands 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.520 around the world where that is happening. 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.000 I think the other thing is crypto companies are going 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:27.280 to offer yeah as well, And that's like the other thing. 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:27.760 Is gonna happened. 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.399 And then the third thing that's going to happen is 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:36.120 cryptotech will enable kind of traditional financial products like equities. 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.440 Talking these equities being one of those examples. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.320 Let's just dive into that now, togonization of traditional asset equities, 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.720 like I want to talk things like housing is a 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:48.760 big one that's been talked about in New Zealand at 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:50.440 the moment. I mean there's lots of sort of old 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.560 alternative as sets like just old coins, but art or 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:56.919 all these sorts of things like just what's what's the 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.720 world as you see it with regards to tokenization. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.560