1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Korda and welcome to Shared Lunch. We're in a sunny 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: and pretty windy San Francisco standing here on the Golden 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Gate Bridge, and today we've got another suspecial episode. It's Cracking, 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: and we'll be speaking with co CEO Dave Ripley. 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 2: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 2: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 2: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: Everything you're about to see and here is current at 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: the time of recording. 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: Dave, Welcome to Shared Lunch. Thanks so much for joining us. 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 3: Great to be here. 12 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: Hey, it's been a whirlwind trip for us. You're seeking 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: on our US tour and was really cool on the 14 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: plane in Washington, d C. This morning. In a great 15 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: place to start, I thought, which was we're really headlined 16 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: that Cracking signs a contract with the government, So I 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: thought maybe you could start by telling us a little 18 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: bit about the breaking news. 19 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 4: I never really thought this time would happen where there's 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 4: a huge amount of crypto news. It's coming out of Washington, 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 4: d C. Or any government center for that matter. But 22 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 4: nonetheless we're here. Yeah, so look the news today not 23 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 4: to downplate it all, but I mean I think it's 24 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 4: one one part and a much bigger, bigger. 25 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 3: Dynamic going on. 26 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 4: So the news today was, you know, the Department of 27 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 4: Commerce they're going to publish some of the kind of 28 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 4: like US economic data on a blockchain. There it'll be 29 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 4: attested to, you know, validated, time stamped, all that, all 30 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 4: those good things that you kind of get with like 31 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 4: a public blockchain that has you know, at testation and 32 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 4: all those types of things. 33 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: So that's what that's about. 34 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 4: But there's certainly a bigger story, like around what's going 35 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 4: on in d C, and you know, specifically with governments 36 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 4: becoming a customer of crypto. I mean, I think one 37 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 4: of the more basic and frankly maybe more interesting one 38 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 4: pieces are you know, governments becoming holders a bitcoin. 39 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 3: That's happening in the US. 40 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 4: You have the US government doing it, and you have 41 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 4: a number of states that are saying, hey, you know, 42 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 4: our state sovereign fund is going to start buying bitcoin, 43 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 4: and that's happening for probably I don't know about four 44 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 4: or five states already, Texas, Wyoming, a handful of. 45 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: Them out there. 46 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 4: We of course see it in other countries El Salvador, 47 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 4: and I don't know exactly what's the latest on, you know, 48 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 4: across the globe, but yeah, it's interesting and that and 49 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 4: of itself is of course still just a small part 50 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 4: of all the things that we're seeing kind of come 51 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 4: out come out of various different governments with regard to crypto. 52 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 3: Yah. 53 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about Kraken's customers and 54 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: you know who you're supporting every day to help in 55 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: the crypto space. 56 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 3: Sure. 57 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 4: So, look, i'd break it down in three different groups consumer, 58 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 4: professional trader, individual advanced trader institutions. I'll start with that 59 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 4: mental group mentioned before, pro traders, Individual advanced traders. That's 60 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 4: kind of our sweet spot from our history where we 61 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 4: really went after first for the audience here if you're 62 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 4: familiar with like an interactive brokers or something like that, 63 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 4: but that individual advanced trader is like looking for all 64 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 4: the you know, complex order types, many asset classes, derivatives, leverage, 65 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 4: looking for a sophisticated us with a lot of analytical tools, indicators, 66 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 4: all of those you know, features that allow them to 67 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 4: kind of like build trading training strategies and execute on them. 68 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 4: And then the third thing is probably like highly performance, 69 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 4: low latency, all those types of things. 70 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: That's kind of that group. 71 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 4: That's where we, you know, have built out all of 72 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 4: those things that I just described, probably better than anyone 73 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 4: else in the industry. More recently, we've moved into consumer. 74 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 4: When I say more recently, probably about four or five 75 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 4: years ago, and it turns out that after you've built 76 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 4: all of this more complex stuff for pro, it's actually 77 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 4: pretty easy to build a more simplified consumer experience, and 78 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,839 Speaker 4: so we've had great success there as well. And then 79 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 4: finally institutions, so we serve a number of different institutions. 80 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 4: We kind of break it down in a few different buckets. 81 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 4: One being trading firms, and these are kind of trading 82 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,239 Speaker 4: firms again similar to the pro traders, very sophisticated, large 83 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 4: trading teams do and you know think you know, high 84 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 4: frequency trading firms, you know, trading via a PI, you know, thousands, 85 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 4: tens of thousands of orders trades per day, that type 86 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 4: of thing. The next would be asset management firms. So 87 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 4: this is the big money pensions, endowments, you know, big 88 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 4: stock phones, big mutual funds, hedge funds, all that type 89 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 4: of stuff. And then the last would be banks, brokers 90 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 4: and FinTechs, so cheers these kind of falls in that 91 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 4: last last category for us. 92 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: That flows nicely that the relationship we have Lusheesy, so 93 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: one of the big parts of our process once we 94 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: decided we do crypto and you know, huge amount of 95 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: due diligence around them, like technology, the solutions we can 96 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: offer to our customers. The one thing critical in this 97 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: pace security, So I just love you to share with 98 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: our audience day a little bit about how Kraken thinks 99 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: about security. And you know, particularly given there's been some 100 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: very high profile crypto case you know, either hacking or 101 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: security or you know, and ultimately a loss of money. 102 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: So just how you think about that as a business 103 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: or as an individual. 104 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 3: None involve and cracking. 105 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 4: But yeah, look this is this has been a super 106 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 4: meaningful topic in crypto. 107 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 3: Of course. 108 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 4: You know, it turns out that when you have the 109 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 4: ability to like hold the funds on your own and 110 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 4: transactions are irreversible, security becomes super meaningful. Lo and behol 111 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 4: probably unsurprising, but you know, cracking has a long history 112 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 4: in this uh you know, with respect to security, it's 113 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 4: frankly one of the founding tenants of the business. There's 114 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 4: one of the first really the first crypto exchange out 115 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 4: there was a company called mount Cox. It ultimately was 116 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 4: you know hacked, had security issues and went down, but 117 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 4: actually earlier in its life, there was a security issue 118 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 4: kind of a couple of years before the one that 119 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 4: actually took the company down. And when that first security 120 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 4: event happened, Jesse, the co founder and CEO of Kracken, 121 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 4: was already in the industry, was already knew many of 122 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 4: the meaningful people in the industry, and they gave Jesse 123 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 4: a call because he was already a fantastic entrepreneur, a 124 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 4: tech entrepreneur, and was able to kind of like figure 125 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 4: out tough, tough challenges and went out there to call 126 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 4: them out there to go help Mount Cox in which 127 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 4: he did and he you know, helped get them back 128 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 4: and moving, and on his way back, he you know, 129 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 4: he had a couple thoughts. One was, Wow, that place 130 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 4: really isn't doing security the right way and doing all 131 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 4: the things that they need to do in order to 132 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 4: you know, be fully sure. The other thing he thought 133 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 4: was someone needs to do that, and that led to Krakeen, 134 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 4: and so that was kind of the foundation of it. 135 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 4: The other co founder of Kracken often refers to Kraken 136 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 4: as a security company with an exchange on top. But 137 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 4: really the way we achieve it, I mean it is 138 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 4: security and depth. It cuts across every function of the company. 139 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 4: It's not just the security team. It's not even just 140 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 4: the engineering team. You think about customer support and compliance 141 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 4: and finance and all of these various different teams have 142 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 4: a role to play. We also have, like one of 143 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 4: our values is called productively paranoid, and what that really 144 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 4: means is that like productively is the piece of like, hey, 145 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 4: let's not be too paranoid, but let's question things anytime 146 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 4: there's something that doesn't look like as it should be 147 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 4: for whatever reason. And that might just be like, oh, 148 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 4: hey someone forgot to do X y Z. Is that 149 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 4: is that really intentional or not? Let's look into it. 150 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 4: And that pervades across all two thousand plus krackenites, And 151 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 4: that's a really meaningful part of like how we like 152 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 4: pervade security across every corner of the company. 153 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 3: So we take it super seriously. 154 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 4: We know that it's not always top of mind for 155 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 4: our customers, but over time, we think kind of investing 156 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 4: in that leads to a lot of trust, whether it's 157 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 4: whether it's clear where that trust is coming from or not, 158 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,679 Speaker 4: or that it's just Kracking's known to be highly trusted. 159 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: What are the other values of the of the company, 160 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: like the I like the waiting, like productively. 161 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 3: Parently, productively, period. 162 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 4: So like most of the value set for Kraken is 163 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 4: really tied to crypto values, right, and so crypto values 164 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 4: are kind of this like, you know, frankly this in 165 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 4: a way libertarian set of values about you know, like freedom, 166 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 4: you know, freedom, independence, all these you know, different aspects 167 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 4: and that's kind of like core to our to our 168 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 4: value sets. So Kracken's values are very closely tied to 169 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 4: crypto values. 170 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: So let's just step back a little bit and talk 171 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: a bit more about you. Nine years at Kraken, and 172 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'd just love to hear a little bit 173 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: about how you came to be here, a little bit 174 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: about Dave, but sure. 175 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,359 Speaker 3: Just been about your story. Yeah, So definitely a crypto dinosaur, 176 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 3: that's for sure. Yeah. 177 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 4: So yeah, I guess it is nine years in krack 178 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 4: and I founded a company in the crypto space twenty thirteen, 179 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 4: so it's actually now been over a decade that have 180 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 4: been in the space. That company is acquired back Cracking 181 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, Glydadira sorry you and that was called 182 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 4: by Crack in twenty sixteen. So that, you know, like 183 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 4: you said, puts me in about nine years at Cracking. 184 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 3: Most of the time. 185 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 4: I joined as chief operating officer for you know, was 186 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 4: in that role for a good number of years, I 187 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 4: don't know, six seven or so, and then more recently 188 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 4: moved into the CEO role and co CEO with Argentzathi. 189 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: Right now we have a Coco model she is as well. 190 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I caught that. That's great. 191 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: And prior to the like, what was your you said, 192 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: you're a cryptos dinosaur, but it was you know, it's 193 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: not that old. 194 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 3: What was the lafe before? 195 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, so kind of a two part career. Before my 196 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 4: move into Crypto, so started my cares as an engineer, 197 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 4: was engineer, an undergrad software engineer. I worked in what 198 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 4: we called at the time mobile and you know, now, 199 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 4: of course every company is mobile tech, you know, it 200 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 4: has mobile devices, but back in this time period it 201 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 4: was very very new. The largest mobile device at the 202 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 4: time was a Palm. 203 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 3: Pilot, right, followed by the BlackBerry. 204 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 4: And then I don't know, it's like some Microsoft devices 205 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 4: after that or whatever. So early days of mobile, what 206 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 4: we did is we basically built mobile applications for enterprise software, 207 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 4: which meant that the company I worked for, Cyclo, they 208 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 4: eventually got acquired by SAP, and so we're kind of 209 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 4: mobilizing those types of things that SAP was like, Okay, 210 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 4: we can't figure out this mobile shit, so let's like 211 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 4: acquire this company who's already doing it for our software, 212 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:00,719 Speaker 4: you know, kind of independently. 213 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: And so anyways, that's what that's. 214 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 4: What was kind of part one of my career as 215 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 4: software junior product manageer, then business school, and then I 216 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 4: worked at BCG or served a bunch of different financial 217 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 4: services firms, and. 218 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 3: So that was kind of the second place as well. 219 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 4: Was I was not no, it was it was like 220 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 4: is one of those things where it was like the 221 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 4: I kind of thought about it as like the the 222 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 4: in some ways the worst timing possible, because I was 223 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 4: there in mobile when it was like you know, the 224 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 4: Palm Pilot and BlackBerry and so forth. And then about 225 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 4: the time as graduating business school was right right, it 226 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 4: was two thousand and seven, and that you know, the 227 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 4: iPhone was hitting right. 228 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 5: And so I've moved pivoted away from it, which was like, 229 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 5: you know, you couldn't get worse time. So I actually 230 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 5: kind of thought about that the many times through the 231 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 5: Bear and Bull cycles and Crypto where it's. 232 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 4: Like, hey, am I gonna like you know, but you know, 233 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 4: for a million reasons, I never never wanted to leave Crypto, 234 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 4: and you know, just I'll definitely be in this space 235 00:11:58,559 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 4: till I till I die. 236 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: Dumably b CG would have been a big player in 237 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: that mobile transition large companies. 238 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 3: And now just you know, that was sort of the. 239 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: AI change we're going through now and various places has 240 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: been compared to like the last large platform change being mobile, 241 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: Like now, are you seeing any sort of similarities with 242 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: like anything different about what what we're working through at 243 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: the moment. 244 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I mean it, I'd be a good 245 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 4: interest into what you guys are doing in AI as well. 246 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 4: So we're doing a handful of things, you know. The 247 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 4: first is we have a number of operational parts of 248 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 4: the company. You know, this is kind of like what 249 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 4: I would say like most companies like v one for mobile, 250 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 4: which is we have customer support, we have you know, 251 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 4: compliance function with big operational teams and they do a 252 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 4: bunch of work with data and of course interacting with 253 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 4: customers and all this type of stuff. And we're finding that, 254 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 4: of course, like many companies, we can use AI to 255 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 4: like automate a ton of this ship. 256 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 3: So that's kind of phase one. Step on what we're doing. 257 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 4: Step two, I would say, is to like build it 258 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 4: more directly into the product. So instead of you know, 259 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 4: opening up a crack and app where you have like 260 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 4: an interface and you can go and click on all 261 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 4: the buttons and pull up the lists and all the 262 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 4: views and graphs and so forth, you just interact with 263 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 4: AI prompt. We also just made an acquisition last week, 264 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 4: we announced Capitalized dot Ai and there they basically have 265 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 4: some tech where you can build trading outgoes trading strategies 266 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 4: using AI. It's kind of a prompt and then you 267 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 4: you can build a different trading strategy and prompt so 268 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 4: and it. 269 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: Like spits out like an algorithms exactly. 270 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 4: So that I mean, so that's kind of what I 271 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 4: say is like phase two, where it's more just like 272 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 4: the product becomes you know, the product and the interface 273 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 4: you know, kind of become AI right, and. 274 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 3: Then phase three. 275 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 4: You know, that's like kind of imaginating what's up to 276 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 4: our imagination what that is. I mean, I think there 277 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 4: could be some interesting things, how kind of like crypto 278 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 4: and AI I'm together actually. 279 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: Going to be my next question. We're havn't you asked 280 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: what we're thinking about? Like, we're having a lot of 281 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: fun at the moment. You know, the operational stuff's happening, right, 282 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: like the the adding time to engineers hands and all 283 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff and with their day, and one 284 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: of the things we're having a lot of fun thinking 285 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: about is like eight hundred thousand that were in our 286 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: case a hundred and fifty thousand different UIs or you know, 287 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: because everyone's going to experience this so differently and it 288 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: really does change the you know, change the way. But 289 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: it's super interesting to think about. You know, you're sort 290 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: of right in the middle of these two platform changes 291 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: really right one yeah, yeah, crypto in the block chain 292 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: space and then this AI. So how are they insecting 293 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: in what sort of the future you might see from that? 294 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think this is I mean, it's 295 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 4: definitely we get into the theoretical I mean, there are 296 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 4: some like crypto AI projects out there and so forth. 297 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 4: But I mean in a lot of ways. I mean 298 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 4: again this is this is going to feel pretty theoretical, 299 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 4: but in a lot of ways, you know, AI is 300 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 4: very can can you look at it and be like, hey, 301 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 4: this is very centralizing. And of course that's the you know, 302 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 4: that's the meme or the even the fear out there 303 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 4: that there's you know, this what the movies are made of. Right, 304 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 4: it's like this AI thing is going to take over 305 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 4: humankind and blah blah blah. 306 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 3: Okay, why is it centralizing? 307 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 4: Well, you need all this compute power you put in 308 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 4: one place, and these llms they get really sophisticated, and 309 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 4: you have like you know, one or several lms that 310 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 4: are very sophisticated, a huge amount of compute power. It 311 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 4: all kind of sits in one place. Who owns the 312 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 4: switch for it and so forth. It's very different. You know, 313 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 4: central is you know, a centralized tech is you know, 314 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 4: quite the exact opposite of crypto. 315 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: Right, very decentralizing. 316 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 4: You know, takes something like money, which is you know, 317 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 4: meaningfully centralized today in central banks and so forth, and 318 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 4: you have crypto now and it's like very decentralized networks 319 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 4: are owned by the participants and so on and so forth, right, 320 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 4: And so you kind of think, and if you're someone 321 00:15:54,680 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 4: like you know myself, you look at those two different 322 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 4: paths and you say, like, okay, well, there's a lot 323 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 4: of benefits of the decentralized approach, and a lot of 324 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 4: really meaningful benefits, we think, right, you know, it's kind 325 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 4: of more of the you know, individual and freedom and 326 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 4: ability to opt in or out and control your own 327 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 4: participation and all those types of things as opposed to 328 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 4: have it and dictated for you. And that's kind of 329 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 4: like a great thing for freedom and independence and all 330 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 4: these things that we, like, you know, I think are 331 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 4: pretty important. 332 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: Right. 333 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 4: So kind of the question is, well, like, if these 334 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 4: two things are really big and meaningful, and this one 335 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 4: text seems to be fairly centralized, how can crypto play 336 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 4: a role to kind of like change that course, or 337 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 4: actually can we combine the two and actually then have 338 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 4: some type of like decentralized AI. Even though I just 339 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 4: got done saying that, like, you know, on the face of. 340 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 3: It, it seems very centralized. 341 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I don't know, I think that's kind of 342 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 4: like the when I think about crypto and AI and 343 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 4: the phase three think about like, hey, how can we 344 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 4: how can we pull that off? 345 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 3: Yeah? 346 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: It's because because even like this, like the decentralized nature 347 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: of crypto like these and the centralized world of reserve 348 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: banks and this sort of stuff that like they are 349 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: converging ready right coming together, and like how do you 350 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: see that? You sort of see there's a happy five 351 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: path forward for both of them or yeah, like. 352 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 4: Jumping over to financial services and yeah yeah, so so 353 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 4: stepping aside from the AI combo, this is a huge 354 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 4: thing that we're seeing right now today and in crypto 355 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 4: in our space, which I mean frankly is super relevant 356 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 4: for our conversation because here we are with a you know, 357 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 4: traditional stock equity business, wealth wealth company and that you 358 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 4: guys are integrating crypto. And the reality is we see 359 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 4: that across a lot of our markets. We see it 360 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 4: in Europe, we see it in the US, you know, 361 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 4: across many of our markets where companies are starting to 362 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 4: do this or they're in progress of doing this, like 363 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 4: adding crypto. So you know, banks, brokers, FinTechs right adding 364 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 4: crypto in to their offerings. We had a similar partnership 365 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 4: is what Kraken is doing with Chersey's. We did with 366 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 4: boot Bank and which is a large challenger banking in 367 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 4: Europe and the Netherlands, and they've seen great success with it, 368 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 4: you know, and they have And then we're frankly in 369 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 4: conversation right now with basically all the large banks and 370 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 4: brokers in the US about. 371 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 3: The same thing. 372 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 4: Now, they might not move quite as quick as you guys, 373 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 4: or they definitely won't move as quick as you guys. 374 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 3: But you know, lo and Behold. 375 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 4: I mean they're all like, yeah, they're very serious about 376 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 4: this path, and they have teams against it, and they're 377 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 4: you know, getting our fps going and looking to figure 378 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 4: out how they're going to make it happen. 379 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: Like prior to studying at Cheesy's, I worked in a 380 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: bank and this is nine years ago now, and we 381 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: hit the founder of Ethereum come along to speak to 382 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: us at that time, and the Ethereum was tiny at 383 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: the time, so already those conversations were happening, but none 384 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: of the banks have made progress really and actually delivering that. 385 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: But I can you know, it feels like there's now 386 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: evidence of that happening, right Like there's really large brands 387 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: around the world where that is happening. 388 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 4: I think the other thing is crypto companies are going 389 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 4: to offer yeah as well, And that's like the other thing. 390 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 3: Is gonna happened. 391 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 4: And then the third thing that's going to happen is 392 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 4: cryptotech will enable kind of traditional financial products like equities. 393 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 4: Talking these equities being one of those examples. 394 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: Let's just dive into that now, togonization of traditional asset equities, 395 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: like I want to talk things like housing is a 396 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: big one that's been talked about in New Zealand at 397 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: the moment. I mean there's lots of sort of old 398 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: alternative as sets like just old coins, but art or 399 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: all these sorts of things like just what's what's the 400 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: world as you see it with regards to tokenization. 401 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 4: So that's I think jump into like kind of like 402 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 4: you know a number of steps down the line. 403 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,719 Speaker 3: So like let's build their way up there. Let's take 404 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 3: the steak. 405 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 4: So like I mean, the first step is so we 406 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 4: talk about tokenizing real world you know assets that are 407 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 4: in trad fi stable coins. Stable coins are actually I 408 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 4: mean that is effectively it you basically you know, you 409 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 4: create this token on a blockchain, you back at one 410 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 4: to one with fiat currency in most cases dollars with 411 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 4: you know, tether or USDC, and that is a tokenized asset, 412 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 4: a tokenized you know, single dollar of you know. 413 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: Whatever reason I had not made the connection with the 414 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: other assays that this is a that's a great example, 415 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: but you know one being the most boring example you 416 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: can think of, probably yeahs like sort of yea where 417 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: it might go with it great. 418 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean one hundred percent. 419 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 4: Well, part of the reason I go there is because 420 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 4: now let's talk about tokenized equities, which is some crack 421 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 4: and just recently launched x stocks. 422 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 3: You talk about that more detail. 423 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 4: But the technology I mean, for someone who understands stable 424 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 4: coins like okay, I got this token and it's back 425 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 4: one for one by some dollars sitting in a bank account. Well, 426 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 4: TOKENI is equities x stocks. Our implementation of it is 427 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 4: exactly the same. There's this token that rides on a 428 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 4: blockchain several different blockchains actually you know we now support 429 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 4: and it's back one for one by a share of 430 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 4: Tesla stock or Apple stock or whatever it might be. Right, 431 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 4: And that's the basic premise of the technology. These are 432 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 4: just basically asset back tokens. And so you're kind of allowed. 433 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 4: It's a hybrid in some ways, right, I Mean, we're 434 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 4: still talking about dollars, but now they're just on a 435 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 4: different set of rails. We're still talking about traditional equities now, 436 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 4: just on different set of rails, and so it's kind 437 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 4: of combining the two, if you will, you know, because 438 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 4: there are some benefits of dollars today that you know, 439 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 4: people want to hold dollars, people accept dollars. They are 440 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 4: less volatile than pretty much all the crypto currencies out there, 441 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 4: and there are various different, you know, advantages that they 442 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 4: still have today. I think some of those will go 443 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 4: away over time for what it's worth, and then much 444 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 4: the same I mean obviously equities. I mean there's huge 445 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 4: number of benefits you know, to public equities and so 446 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 4: forth in that whole structure. So this is basically kind 447 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 4: of combining the two. But we could just keep going 448 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 4: on from there, right, We can go on from there 449 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 4: to you mentioned real estate. I think that one's a 450 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 4: little bit you know, further down. I mean, I think 451 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 4: more of the for what it's worth. I think more 452 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 4: of the like higher liquid assets are going to be 453 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 4: at least in the near term, are probably. 454 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 3: Where we're going to see like bigger adoption for what 455 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 3: it's worth. 456 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 4: Like there might be some use cases that are more 457 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 4: narrow for more ill liquid assets, I think so like 458 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 4: real estate, But I think the broader adoption, bigger adoption 459 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 4: is probably going to come for more liquid assets. Probably 460 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 4: you know, the most liquid asset out there is the 461 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 4: US dollar, I'm pretty sure, and then you kind of 462 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 4: move across there and think about the other liquid assets. 463 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 4: That's where we're going to see the option of tokenized assets. 464 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the I mean the I don't want to 465 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: get too far ahead of ourselves and now, but you know, 466 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: you can think about like if it was property, then 467 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: what's the part to play of the bank if you 468 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: can sort of fractionalize your property and has sort of 469 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: achieve some sort of ownership over time through that. Or 470 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: with regards to public markets, like do you, like, have 471 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: you thought about what that means for public markets into 472 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: the future or is that just sort of something that 473 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: you think will work its way out given given if 474 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: it's tokenized, we're already seeing private assets tokenized and stuff, right. 475 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's an interesting question. I mean, there's 476 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 4: a lot of things that can happen now that you 477 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 4: have tokenized dollars or tokenize equities, right, I mean, so 478 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 4: again we just start with tokenized dollars, Well, you can 479 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 4: move them globally for no cost or near no cost, right, 480 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 4: And you can move them globally for near no cost 481 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 4: nearly instantly. You kind of go down the line and 482 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 4: these things are just you know, not possible. Otherwise you 483 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 4: can also now you know, integrate them into what is DeFi, right, 484 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 4: And so these are decentralized exchanges, decentralized lending protocols where 485 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 4: we actually have people out there that can go to 486 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 4: DeFi and borrow stable coins against some other you know, 487 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 4: crypto assets from uh you know, thousands of people all 488 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 4: at once on a DeFi network, which. 489 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 3: Is just kind of amazing. 490 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,239 Speaker 4: And you think about the level of i don't know, 491 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 4: kind of like peer to peer decentralized liquidity that that 492 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 4: then provides is really amazing. And so then you can 493 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 4: start integrating these stable coins into various different smart contracts 494 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 4: where they can be you know, a party two like 495 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 4: an AI agent someday you know, actually interacting with these assets. 496 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 4: And then the same is true for toke ex equities. 497 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 4: You know, we can start thinking about all the various 498 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 4: different things that you know can be done with token 499 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 4: ex equities as well now that they're you know, permission less, movable, 500 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 4: all these types of things. 501 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 3: So it's cool to think about. 502 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: It's just for sure the change and who knows, who 503 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: knows how to get there that, Like, I think one 504 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: thing we can probably both say is biscises. You know, 505 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: I think I sort of believe in that. I believe 506 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: in the in the future. It's like, sort of what's 507 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: the path is or do you think there's like a 508 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: penetration point, was like a level of scale or something 509 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: that that we are something. 510 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 3: Tips or yeah, that's a good question. 511 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 4: We you know, in crypto in the early days and 512 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 4: even still today. I frankly haven't had this discussion too 513 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 4: much recently, but yeah, this is you know, where is 514 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 4: the S curve hit? Where we at on the S curve? 515 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 4: Where did things tip? And you know, I mean I 516 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 4: don't think we're at that like vertical part of the 517 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 4: ES curve for crypto generally right now, still not today. 518 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 4: I mean, I think there's still more penetration to get to, 519 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 4: but I don't know that we're that far off. Honestly, 520 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 4: you know, once we get to a place where there 521 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 4: is a you know, a significant number of people that 522 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 4: you know own crypto, are using crypto daily, just kind 523 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 4: of like the. 524 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 3: Level of you know, demand to build applications. 525 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 4: For them will just kind of like continually grow and 526 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 4: we'll just see this flywheel move and I think, you know, 527 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 4: adoption will just really really spiral. 528 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 3: At that point. Cool. 529 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: Well, we've you know, it's been a great chance to 530 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: chair and meet you as a key pers It's very 531 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: cool to do that over here, so appreciate. 532 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 3: Your time there. 533 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: The last question we're going to have. We've got tens 534 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: of thousands of people on a wait list already for 535 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: this product, so there's clearly a lot of interests to 536 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: do it from our customer base. We're getting close and 537 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of those people will be familiar with crypto, 538 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: and you know, they'll come in and they'll have expectations 539 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: and we'll keep building product for them. But there's also 540 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: going to be a bunch of people who are doing 541 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: this for the first time. So I just love to 542 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: hear what thoughts you have to give to anyone whom 543 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: I was listening to this and about to start visiting 544 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: and crypto. 545 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 3: For the first time. 546 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 4: Sure, that's a great question. Look, I mean I got 547 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 4: into crypto a long time ago. I think crypto as 548 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 4: a technology provides, you know, a set of technology that 549 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 4: at its core is you know, faster, cheaper, and more global. 550 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 4: Fortunately for those of us in crypto, that is kind 551 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 4: of like the the you know, the. 552 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 3: Path of the world to look for those things. 553 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 4: The world is becoming more global, h you know, you know, 554 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 4: commerce is becoming more global, and therefore we need you know, 555 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 4: faster and cheaper rails to get all of that done. 556 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 3: I think there's an. 557 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 4: Enormous amount of innovation happening in the space, even beyond 558 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 4: just payments, and we look into all different aspects of uh, 559 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 4: you know, trading in something that's called DeFi decentralized finance. 560 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 4: That's another key word of this, which is decentralized. So 561 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 4: kind of like historically, you know, in recent hundreds of years, 562 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 4: financial services have largely been centralized by a few central banks, 563 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 4: large large individual banks. Now this is actually a technology 564 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 4: where the individuals, the participants in. 565 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 3: The network actually own a part of the network. 566 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 4: And so I think it's a fantastic place for people 567 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 4: to check out. 568 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: Favorably because Craiken, thank you so much for your time today. 569 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. 570 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 3: Awesome