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Speaker 1: Thomas Coglin, the Herald's political editors with us.

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Speaker 2: Thomas, Hello here, the good afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Okay, is this debate dragging out? What's going on?

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Speaker 2: Look? It is, it is dragging out. It needs to

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Speaker 2: finish at six o'clock, but that doesn't necessarily mean it

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Speaker 2: won't continue after that, So it's anyone's guess. And and uh,

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Speaker 2: they seem to be losing steam, but but they can

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Speaker 2: find steam, I guess as well.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going they only started at three. How are

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Speaker 1: they losing steam already?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's it's what if they started they

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Speaker 2: I think they started just before three. An hour and

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Speaker 2: forty five minutes is pretty long for one one debate

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Speaker 2: in parliament, I reckon, Yeah, I think they've they'll they

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Speaker 2: they will certainly be able to drag it out to six,

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing. And whether that means that they'll pick it

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Speaker 2: up again another day, anyone's guess.

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Speaker 1: What's Labor doing.

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Speaker 2: Labor are not filibustering. They are speaking to the speaking

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Speaker 2: to the motion, and I think the speak couple of

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Speaker 2: speeches from Labor have been have been really strong. The

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Speaker 2: former speaking Adrian Rudraphe, who was known for being mild manager,

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Speaker 2: I guess, and holding his tongue, probably delivered the best

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Speaker 2: speech he's ever delivered in Parliament where he warned basically

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Speaker 2: the nets to say, look, you know, if the Privileges

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Speaker 2: Committee is going to be used to punish political opponents,

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Speaker 2: and and you know that is obviously a bit of

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Speaker 2: a stretch because obviously the Marti Party have done something

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Speaker 2: wrong and everyone agrees with that, But if you're going

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Speaker 2: to use the Privileges Committee as a sort of majoritary

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Speaker 2: in court, then that opens the door to a future

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Speaker 2: government by be a majority using the Privileges Committee to

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Speaker 2: try and you know, punish, punish people you don't agree with.

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Speaker 2: But then he turns to party Mary and he says,

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Speaker 2: you know, the founder of the Maori Party, Tariana Turia.

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Speaker 2: She came to Parliament, spoke on every every bill, spoke

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Speaker 2: in every motion. Really you know, worked worked her socks

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Speaker 2: off in parliament to create a name for herself and

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Speaker 2: to build that party. And and you know he looked

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Speaker 2: at the Maori Party and I mean didn't use so

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Speaker 2: many words, but was based saying that isn't exactly what

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Speaker 2: the Malori Party of today is doing. They're not showing

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Speaker 2: up at many debates, they're not really speaking on every emotion.

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Speaker 2: They're doing more on social media than they are in

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Speaker 2: the house. And he basically said, look, you know you've

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Speaker 2: got to leave you to live up to here and

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Speaker 2: you're not really you're not really doing it. You've got

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Speaker 2: a choice to make as well. Do you walk into

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Speaker 2: the Anaturia's sort of footsteps or or do you sort

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Speaker 2: of an influencer.

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Speaker 1: So so, do you get the impression that it is

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Speaker 1: starting to sink into labor that they don't necessarily want

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Speaker 1: to be too closely aligned with a brand that for

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Speaker 1: a lot of New Zealand Middle New Zealand will be

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Speaker 1: relatively toxic.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, there was that done. There was that poll

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Speaker 2: this morning from RNZ read and it showed that behalf

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Speaker 2: of the country basically supports this this punishment or wants

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Speaker 2: to go further. So yes, and I think labor that

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Speaker 2: is sunk in for labor for a while. And you know,

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Speaker 2: put a column out on the weekend hear all about this,

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Speaker 2: that that labor Labor is realizing that obviously they do

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Speaker 2: need the numbers of Party Maori. But but to Party

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Speaker 2: Mary is that they are they are putting the ceiling

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Speaker 2: on Labor's appeal to Middle New Zealand, because you know,

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Speaker 2: this is the people's house, this is for all all

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Speaker 2: New Zealand and parting Malory probably are pushing the boat

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Speaker 2: out in terms of what Middle New Zealand can can

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Speaker 2: deal with with the theatrics.

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Speaker 1: Now do we have I mean, I'm still waiting personally

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Speaker 1: to hear from the police on this. Do you have

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Speaker 1: any understanding as to why the police didn't investigate the

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Speaker 1: peeping tom aspect of what Michael Forbes was allegedly up to,

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Speaker 1: because that is the that is the thing that is unlawful.

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Speaker 1: Why did they not charge him for that?

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Speaker 2: Yes, so that their statement is that the that they

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Speaker 2: they I think that it didn't meet the threshold for

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Speaker 2: prosecution potentially on an evidentiary basis. I am not sure

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Speaker 2: why that decision was made. I'm sure the police would

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Speaker 2: be scratching the head around that as well. And there's

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Speaker 2: also the issue of the no surprises aspect of this.

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Speaker 2: The former commissioner we found out today the former former

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Speaker 2: commissioner Andrew Costa didn't know about it, but the lam

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Speaker 2: about it. Yes, and you can't he doesn't have access

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Speaker 2: tools or files, said because he's a tone he's at

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Speaker 2: the Social Investment Agency now. But obviously, I mean this

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Speaker 2: is very clearly and no surprises issue, you know, I

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Speaker 2: would yeah, I would think, So it's why would it.

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Speaker 1: Be Why would it be Thomas? Because if you have

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Speaker 1: somebody who you've looked at their phone and you go, now,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing to charge you over here, you haven't done

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Speaker 1: anything that we can charge you on, why would you

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Speaker 1: need to alert the employer who is the d I A?

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Speaker 2: Because I think the threshold is anything significant Now maybe

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Speaker 2: I suppose you could argue that it's not significant enough

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Speaker 2: significant would likely to generate controversy. And you know, obviously,

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Speaker 2: as we've seen the last twenty four hours, it certainly

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Speaker 2: generated controversy. So I think it probably would meet that

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Speaker 2: threshold where you'd alert alert the minister. But but yes,

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Speaker 2: I mean you could go back was July twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: I think when the when the complaint was first laid,

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Speaker 2: and perhaps back then they didn't think it admit a

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Speaker 2: threshold where they would take it further and where they

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Speaker 2: would alert the minister.

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Speaker 1: But you think they should have I think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but based on what but based on what we

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Speaker 2: know now, I think it probably meets that no surprises

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Speaker 2: through Sholt.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Thomas Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editor. For more from

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