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Speaker 1: Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editors, with us.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Thomas, A good afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Did you see Taku Tai Tas Kemp yesterday?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Did? She was in the debating chamber. She looked

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Speaker 2: perfectly healthy and normal. It was shocked to me, just

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Speaker 2: like it was a shock to everyone in parliament.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so do we know what happened overnight?

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Speaker 2: I know that the party Maury have understandably that they

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Speaker 2: were in Parliament this morning, but they were not at

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Speaker 2: question time all, it would appear headed back up to

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Speaker 2: Auckland to prepare for Kemp's tonguey. So we haven't had

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Speaker 2: any detailed media explanation of what has gone on here.

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Speaker 2: Kemp was did have kidney disease, she was known to

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Speaker 2: She took six weeks off last year for kidney disease,

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Speaker 2: so she was known to have that. So I think

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Speaker 2: there's a there's a there's a fear indication that it

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Speaker 2: might have been related to complications with that. But but

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Speaker 2: we honestly don't know.

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Speaker 1: And so I saw that the Labor Party held a

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Speaker 1: stand up press conference about this, but I haven't seen

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Speaker 1: that the Marta Party have they not done done one yet?

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Speaker 2: No, no, no thing nothing from them today. There are

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Speaker 2: their MP's were in Parliament today. The suspensions lifted on

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Speaker 2: the CO leaders last night. So the suspensions lifted as

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Speaker 2: a midnight last night, so they could have all And

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Speaker 2: I guess that's one of the sad parts of this

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Speaker 2: is actually the last time that the entire caucus would

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Speaker 2: have been present under the debating chamber was was the

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Speaker 2: day that that the CO leaders were censured, we're sorry,

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Speaker 2: suspended from parliament with related relating to that hacker. But

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Speaker 2: no everyone and everyone left. The Greens put some flowers

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Speaker 2: on Kemp's desk in Parliament. There was a Malori Patty

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Speaker 2: flag on her chair. But but Malori Patty of the

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Speaker 2: MPs have have decided not to not to be in

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Speaker 2: Wellington for today. Obviously there'll be there might be more

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Speaker 2: tributes paid, a bit like with Offesso Collins. We don't

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Speaker 2: have eyes on that yet. With Offesso Collins there were

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Speaker 2: tributes paid after when Parliament returned, so we might have

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Speaker 2: that their in this instance too.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Thomas, what is the warning from treasury? Never is

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Speaker 1: a good thing?

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Speaker 2: Is it a good thing? With treasury? Treasury delivers a

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Speaker 2: warning like this look, they've just said that the government

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Speaker 2: is the government, I suppose is trying to take the

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Speaker 2: least difficult path back to suplus, which is just to

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Speaker 2: increase spending every year, but not increase it by very

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Speaker 2: much and so slowly the books get back into water.

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Speaker 2: It's not painful cuts like the Ruth Richardson years, it's

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Speaker 2: not a lot of spending like the last labor government.

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Speaker 2: It's increasing spending but not too much. Treasury is just

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Speaker 2: sort of looked at those numbers and said, well, look,

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Speaker 2: if you did that over the next fifteen or so years,

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Speaker 2: what would that do? And basically that would open up

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Speaker 2: a very large hole between about ten million dollars in

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Speaker 2: today's money between what they think the health system needs

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Speaker 2: and what it would be likely to get. And so

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Speaker 2: the big question that Treasury is basically asking, which is

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Speaker 2: the same question that Treasury is always asking, is what

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Speaker 2: are you going to do about superinnuation entitlement? So you're

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Speaker 2: going to lift the age to sixty seven to save

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Speaker 2: some money or are you going to have to start

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Speaker 2: looking at tools like a capital gains tax to raise

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Speaker 2: that money. The same question they always ask the answers

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Speaker 2: always know, do.

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Speaker 1: You think do you think that National is going to

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Speaker 1: campaign on sixty seven.

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Speaker 2: I yes, I feel like I feel like there's a

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Speaker 2: probably sixty percent chance of that. Obviously, with Winston in

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Speaker 2: the picture, it ain't going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Was pretty clear, should they because it is unpopular, it

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Speaker 1: remains unpopular and this is going to be a tight election.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, if I were in the National you're damned

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Speaker 2: if you do. Damned if you don't. Because if you're

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Speaker 2: if you're in the National Party's strategy team right now,

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Speaker 2: you're thinking, well, if we do campaign on sixty seven,

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Speaker 2: we might be the first one term national government in history.

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Speaker 1: Because you're right, And why are you damned if you

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Speaker 1: don't campaign on sixty seven.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you don't campaign and it, then you've got

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Speaker 2: another three years where you've got to do even tight

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Speaker 2: You've got to keep making quite tight cuts.

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Speaker 1: Two, you've got to do the difficult but necessary thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you keep it at sixty five, then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden you're going to say, well, look, we'll

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Speaker 2: keep it at sixty five. But in order to pay

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Speaker 2: for that, we can't increase the health budget by as

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Speaker 2: much as would like, or we can't increase the education.

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Speaker 1: Or you could just cut into stuff that's unnecessary, for example,

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Speaker 1: get rid of the Infrastructure Commission.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I like the way you singled that one out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and today I'm going in for a second bite

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Speaker 1: on that one actually, But do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: There are My point is, Thomas, there are lots of action,

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Speaker 1: there are there are lots of decisions that can be taken,

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Speaker 1: and lots of little cuts that can add to a

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Speaker 1: big cut.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Well, and yeah, I mean and to that point,

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Speaker 2: the X Party when it was in opposition did a

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Speaker 2: bit a bit like what the Greens are doing with

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Speaker 2: their draft budgets, although the X Party draft budgets were

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Speaker 2: very different of the Green Party draft budgets. They'd publish

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Speaker 2: draft budgets and I'd basically say, right, we think this

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Speaker 2: is rubbish. This is rubbish, this is rubbish that gone.

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Speaker 2: Here's how much we'd say and here's where we'd spend it. So, yes,

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Speaker 2: you could, you could free up significant amounts of money.

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Speaker 1: Well, Thomas, thanks very much, appreciate it, mate, Thomas Coglan,

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Speaker 1: the Herald's political editor.

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