Speaker 1: Kielda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. This
Speaker 1: Mattariki is the third time the annual celebration has been
Speaker 1: an official public holiday. But while this holiday is safe,
Speaker 1: the future of other public holidays and annually in general
Speaker 1: currently sits with Workplace Relations Minister Brook van Velden. Van
Speaker 1: Velden is currently seeking feedback on suggested changes to the
Speaker 1: Holidays Act, with a draft proposal due in September, but
Speaker 1: employee advocates are already sounding the alarm on what the
Speaker 1: refresh could mean for some workers. To discuss these changes
Speaker 1: with us as well as her thoughts on public holidays,
Speaker 1: we're joined now by Minister Brook van Velden, now Minister
Speaker 1: the Government's seeking fee feedback from businesses on changes to
Speaker 1: the Holidays Act. You're set to release a draft in September.
Speaker 1: How are things tracking with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, things are looking really really good. One of my
Speaker 2: top priorities is that we need legislative change in this
Speaker 2: term of government. I understand many successive Ministers of Workplace
Speaker 2: Relations have tried and failed to get a Holidays Act
Speaker 2: change across the line and I'd love to make it
Speaker 2: easier for businesses and workers to pay out the right
Speaker 2: entitlements and for those workers to know that they are
Speaker 2: getting paid the right amounts. So that's top priority for me.
Speaker 2: We're on track to get this out in September, and
Speaker 2: it'll be targeted consultation because it's a very technical law.
Speaker 2: But I very much look forward to all of the
Speaker 2: feedback that comes back to let us know if we're
Speaker 2: on the right track to make it simpler. The last
Speaker 2: thing I want is a new law change that's even
Speaker 2: more complex.
Speaker 1: It is kind of one that would be difficult to
Speaker 1: explain to someone on the street right because it's a
Speaker 1: lot of backroom situation in terms of payroll and things
Speaker 1: like that that perhaps employees don't exactly.
Speaker 2: See totally absolutely look for most people, they'll assume that
Speaker 2: their business or their manager is getting it right. They
Speaker 2: might get their pay slip every fortnight or every month,
Speaker 2: and it tells them how much they're earning that week,
Speaker 2: how much they may have in holidays pay coming up,
Speaker 2: or you know, what their sick leaving titlements might still be.
Speaker 2: By and large, most people are doing a very good job.
Speaker 2: But because the law is so complicated and so complex
Speaker 2: even some of our largest organizations have been getting it wrong.
Speaker 2: You take, for example, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment.
Speaker 2: You know they even got holidays pay wrong. Now, if
Speaker 2: the law is so complex that even the government department
Speaker 2: that's supposed to look after this law is getting it wrong,
Speaker 2: there's serious work that needs to be done, because at
Speaker 2: the heart of this, I want all workers to know
Speaker 2: they're going home at the end of the week with
Speaker 2: the right pay, with the right holidays pay, with the
Speaker 2: right sick leave, and that businesses have far more time
Speaker 2: to actually do what they do well, which is their
Speaker 2: real job, not figuring out compliance.
Speaker 1: In terms of the Holiday Act. I guess employees know
Speaker 1: what they can see. They can see how much sickleave
Speaker 1: they can get. The current rules I believe is everyone's
Speaker 1: entitled to ten days sickly for a year if they've
Speaker 1: worked with their employer for six months and have worked
Speaker 1: an average of ten hours a week. So you're proposing
Speaker 1: actually making sick leave entitlements proportional to the hours someone
Speaker 1: works at something dubbed I believe pro rating sickly. Why
Speaker 1: should this be the case?
Speaker 2: Do you think, well, this is one of the areas
Speaker 2: that we've had really strong feedback on, where because the
Speaker 2: last government increased paid sickly from five days to ten days,
Speaker 2: some small businesses have been really struggling with this. But
Speaker 2: also there's a question of fairness where if you've got
Speaker 2: a worker, for example, who has two part time jobs,
Speaker 2: they under the law, could be entitled to twenty days
Speaker 2: sick leave. And I know this is not a case
Speaker 2: that happens every single day, but there are a lot
Speaker 2: of small businesses that have a lot of part time
Speaker 2: staff members, and so for every single one of these
Speaker 2: part time staff members, they need to be liable for
Speaker 2: ten days sickly for each one, even if they might
Speaker 2: only be working, you know, two days a week. And
Speaker 2: so we're opening up that question of is it fair
Speaker 2: Is it proportionate that somebody who works part time is
Speaker 2: still entitled to the same leave as someone who works
Speaker 2: five days a week for forty hours. That's what I'm
Speaker 2: really interested in getting some feedback on.
Speaker 3: Just because you're a part time worker doesn't mean you
Speaker 3: get crook part time. If you're working twenty hours and
Speaker 3: you claim a sick day, you only get paid for
Speaker 3: that half day that you were going to work. It's
Speaker 3: not like the employer has to pay for the full day,
Speaker 3: So in that respect, from an hour's perspective, already relevant
Speaker 3: to how much you work.
Speaker 1: Is there a chance that full time workers also will
Speaker 1: be brought into this and that ten will be reduced
Speaker 1: to five for everyone.
Speaker 2: No, that's not part of my current assessment. But look,
Speaker 2: everything is on the table when it comes to the
Speaker 2: Holidays Act. So we'll be putting up the exposure draft,
Speaker 2: and what I want to make really clear is that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that that's what will end up being finalized.
Speaker 2: What it means is that we're looking for firstly technical
Speaker 2: feedback on whether or not it's something that can be
Speaker 2: implemented by payroll providers and for business, but secondly whether
Speaker 2: or not it actually makes it simpler for business, or
Speaker 2: whether we could go further to make it simpler. But
Speaker 2: at this stage, I'm not opening the conversation on reducing
Speaker 2: those ten days down.
Speaker 1: So I understand the pro writer's sek leave and it's
Speaker 1: proportional to the hour someone works, But advocates say or
Speaker 1: are asking, are you actually stealing sick days away from
Speaker 1: the most disadvantaged people?
Speaker 2: Brook No, I completely disagree with that. Look when I've
Speaker 2: been talking to businesses, they've said, on the whole, they
Speaker 2: actually want their staff to be well. They want people
Speaker 2: to be looked after, they want people to turn up
Speaker 2: to work, and it's an everyone's best interest that you
Speaker 2: have a really good working relationship with your staff. You know,
Speaker 2: if you ask somebody who does suffer from a particular
Speaker 2: illness and you need more time off, I would highly
Speaker 2: encourage people to talk with their manager, because managers that
Speaker 2: I talk to actually want to do the best thing
Speaker 2: for their employees. And if you've got, for example, a
Speaker 2: particular family member that you need to care for, I
Speaker 2: think it's an everyone's best interest that people are open
Speaker 2: and upfront about these things so that they can have
Speaker 2: that flexibility in the business. Because even chatter around water
Speaker 2: coolers or lunch rooms that I know about, where people say, oh, well,
Speaker 2: isn't it always annoying that person's always going home early?
Speaker 2: Or ah, that person, you know, it seems to always
Speaker 2: be taking a sick day. If people actually know, you know,
Speaker 2: that person's caring for someone who might have a disability,
Speaker 2: and the boss already knows this, I think people would
Speaker 2: actually have a lot of compassion. But sick days are
Speaker 2: there for sick days.
Speaker 1: While we're talking about Leave and the Holidays Act, we're
Speaker 1: recording this for Matadiki. Of course, David Seymour once said
Speaker 1: that public holidays were an example of a fascist state
Speaker 1: and that we should scrap all but two of the holidays.
Speaker 4: You know, people don't want to celebrate Christmas. They don't
Speaker 4: have to. No, I don't think the government needs to
Speaker 4: tell people when to have a holiday and when to
Speaker 4: celebrate things. I certainly don't think that we should be
Speaker 4: rushing to introduce new public holidays, such as Martin Diqui.
Speaker 4: We live in a society of people who can make
Speaker 4: their own choices.
Speaker 1: Obviously softened last year to removing the January second public holiday.
Speaker 1: Does Act still want to see that gone or any
Speaker 1: other changes to public holidays this year?
Speaker 2: I guess you're right that it is an Act party
Speaker 2: policy to remove a public holiday. However, in this capacity
Speaker 2: I am a government minister, and when we have three
Speaker 2: parties in coalition together, not all three parties will end
Speaker 2: up with everything that they campaigned on or everything that
Speaker 2: they believe in. That's pretty much the nature of government.
Speaker 2: That we form compromise and we have a clear path
Speaker 2: forward in this coalition government, there is no plans to
Speaker 2: take back public holidays, so I really actually hope that
Speaker 2: everybody is able to have some good time with their
Speaker 2: family on Maturiqui. Or if you're one of these people
Speaker 2: who might be able to have a few dollars rattling
Speaker 2: around to go out and spend time with their family,
Speaker 2: please do it in like a local cafe or go
Speaker 2: out to your local shops, because I know that there
Speaker 2: are some small businesses who are actually really struggling. I
Speaker 2: know families are struggling, but our small businesses have been
Speaker 2: struggling too, and it would be great if people are
Speaker 2: able to go out support each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with public holidays, I guess while we're on
Speaker 1: the topic, there's always confusion around what stores are allowed
Speaker 1: to open on religious holidays or on Anzac Day, what
Speaker 1: time they're open. I know I never have food in
Speaker 1: the house when I'm meant to when these things occur
Speaker 1: compared to other holidays. Would you like to see changes
Speaker 1: introduced here?
Speaker 2: We look personally, I think we should allow for a
Speaker 2: bit more flexibility. That's not something that this government is
Speaker 2: looking to change, but it is something that my act
Speaker 2: Party colleague Cameron Luxton is looking to change. He's got
Speaker 2: an Easter trading Shop Trading Amendment Bill and I personally
Speaker 2: support that because there are a lot of businesses who
Speaker 2: do wish to stay open. There are some families who
Speaker 2: wish to go out and spend some time out in
Speaker 2: the sun with their families as well, and I think
Speaker 2: our society should allow for that flexibility. But it's not
Speaker 2: something that the government itself is looking to progress.
Speaker 1: Of course, from July first, paid parental leave is being increased,
Speaker 1: putting more money in the pockets of key we parents
Speaker 1: and giving them that extra support that can only be
Speaker 1: a good thing.
Speaker 2: Right Totally, I take my hat off to anybody who's
Speaker 2: got small children, but I personally love the idea that
Speaker 2: a new mum is able to spend a few weeks
Speaker 2: at home with her baby, getting used to the new baby,
Speaker 2: or even grandparents who might be looking after their grandchildren
Speaker 2: as well. And what the paid parental leave change is
Speaker 2: really saying is because wages over the last year have
Speaker 2: gone up by and large, the changes to paid parental
Speaker 2: leave have gone up as well, so there'll be more
Speaker 2: money to help a new mum and a new family
Speaker 2: pay the bills while they're away from work, and I
Speaker 2: think that is a good thing that across government we support. Personally,
Speaker 2: really look forward to day where I'll be one of
Speaker 2: these new mums taking some time off. That's not on
Speaker 2: the cards at the moment, but I think it's something
Speaker 2: that all New Zealanders support that when people are taking
Speaker 2: time away from their work, there is a community to
Speaker 2: help support them.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's great for parents, but given the changing
Speaker 1: landscape now, the universal idea of that nuclear family from
Speaker 1: the fifties is kind of just getting dimmer and dimmer. Single,
Speaker 1: childless and without a lot of support is definitely sort
Speaker 1: of more normal now than it seems to have been
Speaker 1: in the past.
Speaker 2: A lot of our sort of social supports.
Speaker 1: Are set up around households and family households with children,
Speaker 1: but we've got to sort of support more broadly what's
Speaker 1: happening out there in the economy. Should we start talking
Speaker 1: about entire tenements for perhaps single and or childless workers
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: You're suggesting the government pays for people who don't have
Speaker 2: children to have a form of leave.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a conversation should start it.
Speaker 2: Look, I don't think that's where this government is going.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting concept. I think it's the first time
Speaker 2: that's been raised with me. Look, I think by and large,
Speaker 2: if you've got people who are working really hard and
Speaker 2: they want some time off, once again, I would just
Speaker 2: encourage you to talk with your employer. You know, there
Speaker 2: are many instances where your employer might actually have a
Speaker 2: flexible working arrangement for you. And actually, when you think
Speaker 2: about it, there are a lot of people who don't
Speaker 2: have actual hours baked into contracts, and they might just
Speaker 2: work knowing that they've got a particular project that they've
Speaker 2: got to work on, and when that project ends, they
Speaker 2: then have time and flexibility to find the next project
Speaker 2: for them, and in the meantime they can take a
Speaker 2: few days or weeks or months to themselves. That's more
Speaker 2: the contract and arrangement, and I think that really works.
Speaker 2: There's already flexibility to allow people to do that, but
Speaker 2: I'm certainly not going to advocate for the government just
Speaker 2: to allow people to take some time away.
Speaker 1: Minister, you've been in government for a week while now
Speaker 1: a what are you most proud of that you've done
Speaker 1: thus far? And be what are you most excited for?
Speaker 2: Well, one of the areas that I'd be possibly the
Speaker 2: most proud of is being able to find efficiencies within
Speaker 2: our government departments and agencies. You know, when I was
Speaker 2: out in the campaign talking to people, everybody I talked
Speaker 2: to wanted to know that the money that they're giving
Speaker 2: over in their taxes to government, it's not being wasted.
Speaker 2: And I've been really clear on all of the elements
Speaker 2: that I've been working on in government that I'm here
Speaker 2: to work for New Zealanders and that money actually needs
Speaker 2: to lead to better outcomes. And so I feel like
Speaker 2: I've been doing a really good job within workplace relations
Speaker 2: and safety as well as DEIA on that front, and
Speaker 2: I think there's an awful lot of work for us
Speaker 2: still to go. You know, you think of the Employment
Speaker 2: Relations Service, the Mediation Service, es, migrant exploitation that might
Speaker 2: happen in our community. There's a lot of really good
Speaker 2: work that goes on. We've got a very efficient team,
Speaker 2: but I'll keep my eyes and ears on the ground
Speaker 2: to make sure that we can find even more efficiencies
Speaker 2: and lead to even better outcomes so that our workers
Speaker 2: have very good entitlements.
Speaker 1: And what are you most looking forward to?
Speaker 2: What am I most looking forward to? Look every day
Speaker 2: I come down here to the beehive. I actually feel
Speaker 2: really grateful for the position that I'm in, that I'm
Speaker 2: able to affect real change. And what I'm really looking
Speaker 2: forward to is getting to the end of this term
Speaker 2: and looking back and thinking, Wow, yeah, I actually managed
Speaker 2: to make a very good change where I can see
Speaker 2: how it would benefit workers in this country. The last
Speaker 2: thing I'd want is to get to the end of
Speaker 2: this term and think, what can I put in my
Speaker 2: hat there? What can I pin my hat on. I'd
Speaker 2: like to look back and see that I've created a
Speaker 2: little bit of a path of legacy.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Minister. That's it for this episode
Speaker 1: of The Front Page. You can read more about today's
Speaker 1: stories and extensive news coverage at enziherld dot co dot nz.
Speaker 1: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and sound
Speaker 1: engineer Patti Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front
Speaker 1: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
Speaker 1: tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.