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Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty exceptional marketing

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Speaker 1: for every property.

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Speaker 2: I'm hardled with me this evening. We've got Allie Jones

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Speaker 2: of red PR and Tim Wilson of the Maximu Institute.

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Speaker 2: How are you two get out of very good? Thank you, Tim?

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Speaker 3: Ali.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of the government dropping the threat

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Speaker 2: to defund the community sports if they include transgender women?

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Speaker 3: Wow? Isn't this a complex issue? It's very complex complex.

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Speaker 3: I think what's important is inclusion, and I know that

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Speaker 3: that's come from virtually every comment I've heard and read

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Speaker 3: on this today, and that means including everyone who wants

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Speaker 3: to take part. But there's got to be some common sense.

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Speaker 3: As while I was reading what raylen Castle, the head

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Speaker 3: of Sport New Zealand, was saying, and she was saying

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Speaker 3: that one size fits all approach across every code is

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Speaker 3: not appropriate. But she was pleased to see that particular

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Speaker 3: codes were sort of adjusting their positions depending on what

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Speaker 3: the code was. And I think that's really important. That's

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Speaker 3: common sense. We want inclusion, but we need safety and fairness.

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Speaker 3: You know, I can't emphasize how important it is. I

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Speaker 3: think to learn from diversity and being with different people,

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Speaker 3: but you've got to be in a safe and fair

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Speaker 3: environment doing that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you feel like we've got that balance about

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Speaker 2: right at the moment? Tim? Where you've got, for example,

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Speaker 2: boxing which has an open category, so you're not going

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Speaker 2: to have transgender women boxing, you don't, you know, just women.

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Speaker 2: You've got NRL, which is which allows everybody to play together,

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Speaker 2: but after thirteen you separate them out. Is Is that

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Speaker 2: about right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? That that seems to be a good model, like

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Speaker 4: in a sense. And I've got to say, I'm not

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Speaker 4: sure that we value inclusion in our country as much

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Speaker 4: as fairness. I think that we're actually you know, say

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Speaker 4: we compare ourselves to America, where they value freedom. I

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Speaker 4: think in New Zealand we really do value fairness. Is

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Speaker 4: this a fair competition? And look even in America, for example,

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Speaker 4: Leah Thomas band by World Aquatics as as a transgender swimmer,

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Speaker 4: So it's not it's not whole any weight there. So

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Speaker 4: I think I think we actually, Tim, Tim, that is.

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Speaker 2: Slightly different, right, because that's at the elite level and

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Speaker 2: what we're doing, I mean, I think we're all kind

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Speaker 2: of accepted that the rules are that at the elite level,

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Speaker 2: transgender women do not compete against women, But at the

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Speaker 2: community level was a bit different, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: So you're saying that winning doesn't matter at the community level.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, are you that competitive?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: But I was no.

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Speaker 4: But seriously, I was at a soccer tournament on Sunday

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Speaker 4: and my son Roman's team got through to the final

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Speaker 4: and they got there, okay by Roman, George Wilson scoring

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Speaker 4: the winning goal. But that's some other stories. You They

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Speaker 4: got there, they got there, and they lost and they

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Speaker 4: were crushed and I just saw and the cat It's like,

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Speaker 4: why do we play sport at a community level? I

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Speaker 4: got to say, we probably played a win, not necessarily

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Speaker 4: to include.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Tim, No, that's fair, that is fair. But

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Speaker 2: I would I would argue that you are going to

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Speaker 2: get very very few transgender athletes at a community level,

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Speaker 2: and the few that there are will probably balance out,

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Speaker 2: Like there was a transgender women in my indoor netball team.

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Speaker 2: Should probably be balancing out the dud that I roped

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Speaker 2: in from the office just to fill the numbers, do

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, maybe, but that's why I'd say, let's just

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Speaker 4: have an inclusion league where everyone agrees on the rules

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Speaker 4: and listen, I think we're tampering with the rules for

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Speaker 4: all the expectations.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you think make an open category for every

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Speaker 2: single one of these sports so that you can have

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Speaker 2: this kind of like this is your fun and games category.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's in there.

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Speaker 4: If you want to do that, Yeah, yeah, yeah you can.

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Speaker 4: Then I could probably play. Tim.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's going to have you on their team. I mean

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Speaker 2: you know that, right, You know that there's no nobody

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Speaker 2: will ever balance out the young co that you bring

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Speaker 2: in and once for the Huddleton Wilson Ali Jones. Tim,

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Speaker 2: what do you make of the eighty principles on holiday

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Speaker 2: or I'm sorry, professional leadership development at the Hilton and Fiji?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I don't mind. I think principles run What do

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Speaker 4: they do there? Many of them run multimillion dollar enterprises

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Speaker 4: six k to go and do some PD. It's not

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Speaker 4: the end of the world.

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Speaker 2: Come on, you don't think they're actually learning anything.

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Speaker 4: Do you? Well? They're doing what the provider has been

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Speaker 4: in the business eleven years. I think actually we do

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Speaker 4: have a bit of a you know, we have an

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Speaker 4: issue with leadership in our country. And principle as a

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Speaker 4: leaders they need to get better at it and there's

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Speaker 4: a fun for it. Guess is that what we're arguing

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Speaker 4: about the efficacy or the fact that the funds are

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Speaker 4: moral in some way.

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Speaker 2: We're arguing about the rules. I think being too loose

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Speaker 2: ali restore some common sense. You tell me you don't

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Speaker 2: agree with Tim?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you know. I don't agree with it, Tim, Honestly,

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Speaker 3: I do think that they need to be able to

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Speaker 3: go away and go get some professional development and so forth.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I think five grand for five nights

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Speaker 3: in a place without flights is just hugely expensive. I

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Speaker 3: don't have a problem with this kind of course for principles,

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Speaker 3: so work hard. I agree with Tim, they are absolutely

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Speaker 3: critical to schools and the leadership and schools. But I

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Speaker 3: think the costs are unreasonable. You know, was there a

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Speaker 3: more cost effective way to do this? Do they have

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Speaker 3: to be in a five star resort and feed your

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Speaker 3: stayed at the hills and it's bloody flesh? But I

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Speaker 3: mean they could have gone somewhere in Australia they.

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Speaker 2: Did all Yeah, did you go in the eighties or nineties?

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Speaker 3: Oh, we were there two years ago, three years ago.

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Speaker 3: It was fabulous. We must have had the refirmed version.

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Speaker 2: Were you in the adults only part?

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Speaker 4: Oh, madam, excuse me, excuse me.

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Speaker 2: We're having a middle last conversation about overseas. There is

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Speaker 2: nothing wrong with that.

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Speaker 3: We had.

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Speaker 2: Problem with tims Alie. He can't afford anything because he

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Speaker 2: had five hundred children and that's his life forever. Just four,

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Speaker 2: just four, jeez tells one of them.

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Speaker 4: One of them is an incredible athlete.

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Speaker 2: Obviously gets those genes from his mother. Allie, tell me

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Speaker 2: about your hr T patches. Are you cutting them in

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Speaker 2: half a quarter?

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Speaker 3: No, you're not allowed to cut them in half? Not

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Speaker 3: heard this? You mean to cut them diagonally. Now, I

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Speaker 3: will say that my GP pro med in Christ. You

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Speaker 3: send an email out last night. God bless them. How's

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Speaker 3: that for proactive communication with your patients? It says, because

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Speaker 3: you're on the patches, we're contacting you to tell you this,

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Speaker 3: And they ran through all the options. So I know

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Speaker 3: about the gel, I know about all the other stuff.

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Speaker 3: It still doesn't help me, though, because I am a lunatic.

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Speaker 3: Without them, not in an angry, crazy kind of a way.

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Speaker 3: I get terrible brain fog. So you know, women are

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Speaker 3: affected in different ways. What I don't get, Heather, is

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Speaker 3: my sisters in Australia. They have there in the Victoria government.

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Speaker 3: I looked at their website. They've got a list of

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Speaker 3: transdermal patches and they're the list is far greater than us.

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Speaker 3: They have no shortage. The dates that are communicated to

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Speaker 3: their people over there is that the shortage will be

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Speaker 3: over by the fifteenth to the twentieth of June. What

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Speaker 3: the hell is going on in New Zealand?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, really, what is going on in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: That's a very good question and somebody needs to ask

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Speaker 2: that question, somebody in power. Tim, do you want to

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Speaker 2: get involved in the wall own replacement therapy conversation?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 4: Look, I think it sounds like another reason to migrate

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Speaker 4: to Australia, doesn't it. They can do gels, tablets and

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Speaker 4: sprays and the women are less crazy. Yeah, I'm not no, No,

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Speaker 4: the women are not less I would say that women

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Speaker 4: were probably more crazy in Australia. I like New Zealand women.

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Speaker 4: I think you're all awesome. But yeah, I think, well,

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Speaker 4: what what? What seems to be powering this a bit?

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Speaker 4: It's a supply issue. But I wonder in New Zealand

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Speaker 4: because it doubled over two years, so one point three

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Speaker 4: million and twenty twenty one to three million patches in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three. Is this a demographic thing? Is this

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Speaker 4: an aging population?

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Speaker 2: It could well be, That's.

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Speaker 3: What it sounds like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and also maybe if farm extra think at his

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Speaker 2: job like that wouldn't be the first time. Tim, do

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Speaker 2: you like the idea of performance pay for public sector bosses?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I think I do. I do because, as you

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Speaker 4: were saying in your editory, we want the public service

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Speaker 4: to perform as well as the private private sector, and

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Speaker 4: eighty eight percent of the largest standard and pause count,

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Speaker 4: you know firms, they have a performance based pay. The

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Speaker 4: question though, is what what what of the KPU? A

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Speaker 4: KPIs what are we shooting at? Because you want long

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Speaker 4: term viability? And another interesting step, the average shareholder returns

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Speaker 4: are higher from the lower paid CEOs than from the

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Speaker 4: higher paid CEO, so it's it is a bit of

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Speaker 4: a you know, you've got to sort it out. But

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Speaker 4: in the KPIs I think we'll get the viability.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, Ali, what are you right? What do you think?

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Speaker 3: Well? What I'm worried about I agree with him with

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Speaker 3: the KPIs. But I do think too that the resulting

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Speaker 3: bonuses have got to be reasonable. I think I heard

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Speaker 3: you say in your editorial piece, Heather, that you know,

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Speaker 3: if you're earning seven hundred K, be up around one

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Speaker 3: hundred ks as a bonus. I don't think that's acceptable.

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Speaker 3: I think that, you know, performance pay bonuses are important.

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Speaker 3: I think they show that people are valued, you know,

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Speaker 3: and when you hear Chris Hipkins are saying things like,

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Speaker 3: you know, what's important is that our public service is

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Speaker 3: motivated by the spirit of community. I mean, honestly, that's

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Speaker 3: like something out of a Needed Blighten book. But I

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Speaker 3: really do think that you have to be very careful

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Speaker 3: about what people are receiving bonuses because it doesn't look

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Speaker 3: good and it's not great at the moment, so it's

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Speaker 3: got to be fair and reasonable.

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Speaker 2: Guys, thank you. It's great to talk to the pair

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Speaker 2: of you and Ali. Good luck with the HRT patches

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Speaker 2: and making them last. It's Tim Wilson and Ali Jones

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Speaker 2: a huddle this evening.

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