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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter wolf

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Speaker 1: Camp from US talks ed by doing up the house,

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Speaker 1: sorning the garden, asked Pete for ahead. The Resident Builder

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Speaker 1: with Peter wolf Camp Call eight hundred eighty US talks edb.

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Speaker 2: A house sizzle even when it's dark, even when the

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Speaker 2: grass is overgrown in the.

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Speaker 3: Yard, even when the dog is too old to bar,

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Speaker 3: and when you're sitting at the table trying not to.

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Speaker 2: Start ouse scissor hole, even when we again gone, even

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Speaker 2: when you're there alone, house sizzle hole, even when those goes,

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Speaker 2: even when you go to run from the ones you love, your.

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Speaker 3: Monds scream brolding, pans apeing in front of the locals, westball

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Speaker 3: when they're going to living never even when Wilban Heaven,

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Speaker 3: when you're there alone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and a very.

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Speaker 5: Very good morning to you. Welcome along to the Resident

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Speaker 5: Builder on Sunday with me Peter wolf Camp, the Resident Builder,

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Speaker 5: and we are here to talk all things building and construction.

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Speaker 5: And it is your opportunity to ask questions, to engage,

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Speaker 5: to have a good old fashioned debate if you wish

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Speaker 5: about the products, about the services, about the contractors, about

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Speaker 5: the rules, the regulations, about what you can do, the

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Speaker 5: scope of what you can do when you need to

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Speaker 5: employ contractors. Anything to do with bill in construction, we

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Speaker 5: can talk about it here on the show. Maintenance, new builds, renovations, extensions, sustainability,

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Speaker 5: we can look at that energy efficiency I've spent My

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Speaker 5: voice might be a little bit croaky today. The last

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Speaker 5: pretty much three days at the Home show and just

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Speaker 5: being there, being there with Bailey water Tanks and Stark

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Speaker 5: Ambience Joinery and Metro with their retro fit. So having

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Speaker 5: a chat with people at those different stands and having

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Speaker 5: a bit of a moot around, catching up with a

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Speaker 5: few people. It does feel for me these events a

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Speaker 5: little bit like a sort of school reunion. You know,

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Speaker 5: you're bumping into people that I know, you know we

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Speaker 5: did a project together ten years ago or fifteen years

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Speaker 5: ago or even longer in some cases, and then lots

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Speaker 5: of people coming up for a bit of a chat

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Speaker 5: to talk about projects and ideas. Delightful woman came along

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Speaker 5: talked to me about her mum who listens to the show.

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Speaker 5: So Raywn, if you are part of the show this

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Speaker 5: early on a very good morning, delighted to meet you.

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Speaker 5: Grant your daughter yesterday and very nice to know you're

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Speaker 5: still listening to the show and have done for a

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Speaker 5: number of years, so that's very kind. Radio. Now on

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Speaker 5: the show, we will take your calls obviously. Then we're

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Speaker 5: going to change gear at about seven thirty this morning.

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Speaker 5: Some at the beginning of the year, we reached out

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Speaker 5: to the Minister for Building and Construction MP Chris Pink

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Speaker 5: invited him to sort of come in and have a

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Speaker 5: chat about so much of the you know, changes that

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Speaker 5: are underway at the moment, and then a little while

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Speaker 5: ago I reached out again to say, well, look, some

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Speaker 5: of those changes have come into place, you've announced new changes.

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Speaker 5: Is there a chance for an update? And there is.

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Speaker 5: So Chris Pink will be joining me in the studio

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Speaker 5: from seven thirty this morning, so in the next hour,

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Speaker 5: and he's been very generous with his time. He'll stay

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Speaker 5: right through till Rude gets on at around eight thirty

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Speaker 5: this morning. Or the primary focus is going to be

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Speaker 5: on the proposed change from joint and several liability for

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Speaker 5: building defects to proportional liability. Mike Thornton, who's a very

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Speaker 5: experienced barrister and solicitor works a lot in this space,

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Speaker 5: was on the show with us last week kind of

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Speaker 5: explaining what is joined in several and what might proportional

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Speaker 5: liability look like, and you know, potentially where are some

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Speaker 5: of the gaps in the system as well, So we'll

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Speaker 5: be able to I'll put that to Minister Chris Penk

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Speaker 5: at seven thirty. But my intention, and I promised you

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Speaker 5: last time he was on the show that I'd kind

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Speaker 5: of let you guys have a crack as well, So

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Speaker 5: if you've got questions for the Minister, feel free to

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Speaker 5: flick them through. I chatted with a bunch of people,

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Speaker 5: as I said, over the last couple of days at

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Speaker 5: the Home show, and a number of them came up

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Speaker 5: and went, oh, look here, you've got the Minister on

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Speaker 5: the show. Can you ask him this question? All that questions,

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Speaker 5: I've noted those down. I'll try and get through a

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Speaker 5: couple of those, but I do want to open it

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Speaker 5: up to you via the text machine if you've got

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Speaker 5: a question that you would like to put to the

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Speaker 5: Minister for Building in Construction, Chris Pink. He'll be with

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Speaker 5: me with us from about seven thirty this morning, so

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Speaker 5: looking forward to that, which also means, folks, we don't

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Speaker 5: have that many much time for your call. So if

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Speaker 5: you've got a question, now is a very very good

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Speaker 5: time to call. Oh wait, one hundred and eighty ten

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Speaker 5: eighty is that number to call? It was interesting just

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Speaker 5: trying to gauge the mood at the show yesterday. Reasonable

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Speaker 5: numbers of people. Is pretty well attended, I think Waxes

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Speaker 5: and Waynes during the course of the day, but generally

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Speaker 5: pretty good. And then talking to people, you know, are

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Speaker 5: you prepared to sort of open the wallet? Are you

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Speaker 5: prepared to start spending? Are you thinking that maybe a

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Speaker 5: project that you've delayed for a little while you'll actually

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Speaker 5: press go and get underway. I don't know. It doesn't

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Speaker 5: feel like there's a great deal of urgency. You talk

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Speaker 5: to most of the exhibitors, let's say, and I'm talking

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Speaker 5: wide range, right, we're talking glazing, We're talking joinery, we're

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Speaker 5: talking water tanks, we're talking tools, we're talking fireplaces, we're

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Speaker 5: talking kitchens, all of these sorts of things, and it's

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Speaker 5: it's it's been good to be there. Whether or not

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Speaker 5: it generates the leads that they need to keep things

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Speaker 5: going be really interesting. But the great event, I really

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Speaker 5: enjoyed it. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. What's on

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Speaker 5: your mind? What would you like to talk about? Questions

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Speaker 5: around building maintenance, additions, new builds, rules and regulations. Actually

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Speaker 5: the other thing that I you know, you kind of

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Speaker 5: pick up on themes when you go to these events,

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Speaker 5: and I would have spent I don't know, I would

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Speaker 5: have chatted to people for the better part of twenty

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Speaker 5: odd hours over the last couple of days. And the

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Speaker 5: basically energy loans. A number of banks are starting to

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Speaker 5: offer loans at one percent, let's say, for three years,

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Speaker 5: up to about eighty thousand dollars. If you go to

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Speaker 5: them and say, for example, I want to convert to

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Speaker 5: solar or I want to retro fit and install double glazing.

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Speaker 5: It's a good idea, and you know, here's the estimate.

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Speaker 5: Well here's the quote from the good people at retro DG.

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Speaker 5: You put that in the bank, looks at that, assesses it,

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Speaker 5: does all the other bits and pieces of the paperwork,

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Speaker 5: and forwards you that money and we'll loan that to you,

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Speaker 5: for example, at one percent or thereabouts. And a number

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Speaker 5: of people taking advantage of that and popped up on

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Speaker 5: the show a couple of weeks ago where people were

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Speaker 5: starting to talk about it. But it was interesting how

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Speaker 5: quickly that seems to have captured people's attention for very

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Speaker 5: good reason, and the number of people who are making

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Speaker 5: use of that facility, and the number of banks and

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Speaker 5: the sort of increasing number of banks that seem to

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Speaker 5: be offering that as well. So interesting. It's kind of

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Speaker 5: like a taking the pulse be interesting too. I'm in

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Speaker 5: Nelson on Saturday, so I'm down at Nelson at the

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Speaker 5: Nelson Home Garden Show, which will run from Friday through

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Speaker 5: Sunday in Nelson, and be interesting to take the sort

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Speaker 5: of pulse down there as well. Right, let's get into it.

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Speaker 5: Eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

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Speaker 5: It is fourteen minutes after six.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're painting the ceiling, fixing the fens, or wondering

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Speaker 1: how to fix that hole in the wall. Give Peter

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Speaker 1: Wolfgaffer call on eight hundred eighty ten eighty, the resident

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Speaker 1: builder on NEWSTALKSB.

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Speaker 5: Indeed News TALKSB open line on all things building in

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Speaker 5: construction eight hundred eighty ten eighty text of course nine

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Speaker 5: to nine two And if you'd like to see me

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Speaker 5: an email, It's Pete at Newstalk SB dot co. Dot nz.

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Speaker 5: So Pete at Newstalk sb dot co dot nz. I'm

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Speaker 5: starting to get a couple of texts. I mean, this

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Speaker 5: is probably one that I can answer now, Hey, Pete,

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Speaker 5: where an internal leak occurs from the bath above onto

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Speaker 5: the lounge dining area below. Who is liable for damage

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Speaker 5: to furniture and fittings like the carpet below? He's asked

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Speaker 5: the minister it's kind of not really his wheelhouse, to

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Speaker 5: be blunt. This was a brand new unit in a

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Speaker 5: Then they tell me the brand of the group home

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Speaker 5: builder that we discussed earlier. We were told to claim insurance.

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Speaker 5: My question is why should we thank you from Gerrard

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Speaker 5: thanks for your text. I mean, if it's obviously I

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Speaker 5: assume that this is your integrated building, so the bathroom

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Speaker 5: above is your bathroom, it's dropped down into your lounge.

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Speaker 5: And if it's not terribly old so within ten years,

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Speaker 5: I would have expected that you'd go back to the

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Speaker 5: builders in the first place to go, Hey, you know,

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Speaker 5: there's obviously a defect with your work. If I've got

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Speaker 5: a leak that's not due to old age or anything else,

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Speaker 5: in which case, yeah, I probably wouldn't go to the insurer.

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Speaker 5: Either I'd go back to the main contractor in the

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Speaker 5: first instance and then go on to your insurance thereafter,

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Speaker 5: or you could go to insurance in the hope that

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Speaker 5: they then go after the main contractor, which is kind

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Speaker 5: of how it works overseas, interestingly enough, So we'll talk

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Speaker 5: about that with the minister. Thank you very much for

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Speaker 5: your text. Happy to take your text. We'll stack them

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Speaker 5: up and if when the ministers hear it seven thirty,

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Speaker 5: we will address as many of those as we possibly can.

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Speaker 5: Oh eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

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Speaker 5: name to is the number to call. And very good

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Speaker 5: morning to you.

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Speaker 6: Ross, Yeah, good morning.

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Speaker 7: How are you this morning?

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Speaker 5: Very well? Thank you?

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Speaker 7: Oh good Just to paint your little pictures. I your

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Speaker 7: producer said that you had the celiloquy very nice. It

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Speaker 7: was too. I've got a stucco house, yes, lovly stucco

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Speaker 7: planning with parapet russ gorgeous and well yes, and anyway,

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Speaker 7: it's got old wooden windows and they've been cemented and

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Speaker 7: the stuccos actually folded around them. Now we want to

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Speaker 7: add a couple of doors, open place up a little bit,

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Speaker 7: shift the window ship the barth room ship the kitchen

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Speaker 7: for that matter, and effectively redo the whole thing. So

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Speaker 7: we're moving into the territory of cutting and replacing some stucco.

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Speaker 7: So anyway, our local council's pretty dark on the stuff.

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Speaker 7: They view it as the water risk is quite high,

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Speaker 7: so they like it cut well back and selled right

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Speaker 7: around the windows and things like that. So what I've

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Speaker 7: been doing to a designer, and what they're basically saying is,

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Speaker 7: you know, since you're going to be doing all the

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Speaker 7: windows in the place, you know, refit double glazes. By

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Speaker 7: the time you've finished, you've basically going to have you

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Speaker 7: spend a fortune on refitting windows in the stucco because

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Speaker 7: of the way it is. And their advice to me is, basically,

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Speaker 7: I would simplify the whole thing and remove the stucco,

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Speaker 7: and then the second thing because we've got to parapet roof.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of like, well, that's not exactly a favorite

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Speaker 7: of theirs either due to weather type us. So perhaps

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Speaker 7: look at putting a gable roof or a hip roof

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Speaker 7: or something like that on top. And you know, therefore

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Speaker 7: we actually wander the small deck on the side you're

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Speaker 7: on a roof over that that way, you can sort

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Speaker 7: of combine that and at the same time, and you know,

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Speaker 7: so the young you know, there's sort of can of

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Speaker 7: worm where it's the old old houses are like a sponge,

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Speaker 7: you know, sort of the more you keep putting into them,

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Speaker 7: the more they'll keep taking.

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Speaker 5: I'm going to write that down because that's such a

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Speaker 5: an insightful way of describing old houses, to be fair.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, we're.

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Speaker 5: Can I just just before we go into the details,

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Speaker 5: So when you describe a stucco house, because sometimes you know,

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Speaker 5: that's a rather elastic phrase. So if you're talking about

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Speaker 5: an older house circle nineteen thirties, so it's genuine stucco

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Speaker 5: and it's in that sort of art deco, I could

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Speaker 5: imagine the stucco with a slightly sort of rough cast

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Speaker 5: finished timber joinery. It'll have like a parapet on three sides,

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Speaker 5: and then beyond the parapet a big long mono pitch

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Speaker 5: roof that will extend to the back of the house.

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Speaker 8: You got it, Okay, all.

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Speaker 5: Right, okay, So I mean once you started describing what

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Speaker 5: you were going to do, changing windows, adding some changing

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Speaker 5: some other outlets and so on, I must have my

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Speaker 5: mind started to go to look, by the time you

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Speaker 5: do so many alterations to so many elements of the building,

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Speaker 5: you know, would you be better off just removing the

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Speaker 5: stucco completely? And then you've got a couple of options.

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Speaker 5: It's not terribly uncommon to see buildings of that vintage

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Speaker 5: in weatherboard, so that was a style. So you could

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Speaker 5: look at doing simply removing all of the existing stucco

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Speaker 5: right back to the bare frames. Then you could build

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Speaker 5: it up with you know, a building rad cavity batten

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Speaker 5: and weather board cladding. Or you could go and do

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Speaker 5: like a new rock coat or razin construction system which

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Speaker 5: will give you that rendered appearance again over the top

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Speaker 5: of it, and you could use some pr board to

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Speaker 5: get added insulation. And then you know, that system in

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Speaker 5: particular comes with a suite of flashings that will allow

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Speaker 5: you to tidy up around all of the windows. It's

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Speaker 5: known to counsel. So you put that on your specification.

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Speaker 5: Go look, what I'm going to do is I'm actually

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Speaker 5: going to strip all of the cladding off and I'm

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Speaker 5: going to redo it in a modern render and get

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Speaker 5: all of the benefits of flashings and insulation if you

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Speaker 5: want it, and certainly I would imagine, and this is

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Speaker 5: coming from I guess my perspective as a carpenter doing

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Speaker 5: work on old houses is there is that element where

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Speaker 5: it is tremendously time consuming, right, So you know, I'm

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Speaker 5: thinking about some who might be tasked with cutting the

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Speaker 5: stucco neatly around a window, removing the window, installing a

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Speaker 5: new window, trying to tie your patch into the existing one,

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Speaker 5: because in the end, when you cut the stucco, you've

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Speaker 5: got a cold join, right, so how are you going

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Speaker 5: to bond those two surfaces together. Tidying up around the

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Speaker 5: windows kind of easy because it's all new, but bonding

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Speaker 5: it to the existing stucco would be quite a challenge.

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Speaker 5: And then you know, you'll have parts of the stucco,

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Speaker 5: which if it's traditional stucco, it'll probably be timber framing,

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Speaker 5: maybe some building paper, some bottle caps with some chicken

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Speaker 5: wire attached to it, and the render the mortar mix

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Speaker 5: throw on it that and built up over two or

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Speaker 5: three layers. That's typically how they would have built then.

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Speaker 5: In fact, it's I remember doing a job when I

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Speaker 5: first started, which wasn't in the nineteen thirties. I hastened

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Speaker 5: to add and we used exactly that methodology, right, So yeah,

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Speaker 5: but I'm sort of jumping a couple of steps ahead

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Speaker 5: to and thinking what you do open yourself up to is, uh, well,

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Speaker 5: one thing is you don't want to submit it to

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Speaker 5: counsel as a reclad in terms of durability. Right, it's

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Speaker 5: not an issue of durability because the house is not

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Speaker 5: basically a lika. It's just you're changing the style or

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Speaker 5: the appearance or whatever. What might happen though, is if

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Speaker 5: you do opt to take all of the cladding off, Like,

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Speaker 5: how confident are you that the framing is in good kushion?

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Speaker 7: Oh, I've already looked about the interior. Okay, it's really good, plotting,

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Speaker 7: roma flows, it's pretty good. The black building papers there,

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Speaker 7: it's okay, there's a couple of spots where basically a

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Speaker 7: little bit of rot in the corner where the black

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Speaker 7: building paper has let go.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but again, if you're taking the clouding, if you're

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Speaker 5: taking the stucco off, you know, it's a chance to

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Speaker 5: upgrade the building paper. You could add insulation or have

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Speaker 5: you done that from the inside.

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Speaker 6: Well, well, not yet.

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Speaker 7: There's been a couple of renovations done. This roof installation

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Speaker 7: and the bathroom catching them and done the past and

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Speaker 7: they're insulated.

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Speaker 6: But there's the house know nothing in terms of the roof,

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Speaker 6: is it highlight roof?

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Speaker 7: Single?

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Speaker 5: You know at maybe three degrees or something like that,

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Speaker 5: like it won't Yeah, okay, So again, have you had

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Speaker 5: leaks from the roof?

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Speaker 7: No, it's fine, okay.

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Speaker 5: Will you replace the roof as part of this process?

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Speaker 6: Well, that was what.

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Speaker 7: We're talking about is some effectively you go around, you

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Speaker 7: cut the stack off, and then you effectively cut off

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Speaker 7: the parapet and go to a normal sort of gable

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Speaker 7: roof where you've got eaves hanging over the over the edge.

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Speaker 7: So we change the style of the house there together

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Speaker 7: and that that will give you douse you want to

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Speaker 7: dick on one side? You know, going back to a parapet.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of hard work, you know, it's sort of

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Speaker 7: for yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well yeah, I mean, I mean, look, I understand the

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Speaker 5: risks and the concern around parapets, but I think one

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Speaker 5: of the things where we had leaks where what we

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Speaker 5: ended up with is often cladding that came up and

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Speaker 5: over the parapet and down the other side, right, so

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Speaker 5: it didn't have a capping it didn't have a flashing

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Speaker 5: on the top, and that was always going to be

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Speaker 5: a problem. Right, So in this instance, you're going to

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Speaker 5: have your roofing iron, You'll have a nice big apron

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Speaker 5: flashing that comes up. You're going to do your cladding.

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Speaker 5: You're going to have a nice big capping over the

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Speaker 5: top of it. That's going to have some fall on it.

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Speaker 5: It's not going to sit flat. You're not going to

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Speaker 5: nail through the top of it. You're going to do

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Speaker 5: fixing through the side. You know, from that point of view,

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Speaker 5: in terms of weather tightness, you can do a parapet

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Speaker 5: that won't leak, right, and you'll be able to do that.

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Speaker 5: I suppose where eves are an advantage is they shelter

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Speaker 5: the vertical face of the cladding. Right, So if you

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Speaker 5: have an eve and you've got that's just coming straight down,

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Speaker 5: you tend not to have that much rain on your cladding,

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Speaker 5: which if you don't have an e and obviously you'll

335
00:19:12,295 --> 00:19:15,975
Speaker 5: get that, but you know it will change the appear.

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Speaker 5: I suppose. The other thing then, is how much of

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Speaker 5: the classic appearance of the house do you want to

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Speaker 5: keep or are you happy to sort of make fairly

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Speaker 5: significant changes that mean that the house is unrecognizable kind

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Speaker 5: of from where you are now.

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Speaker 7: Well, the house was built in the early forties, then

342
00:19:36,575 --> 00:19:39,215
Speaker 7: it's been you know, it's it's had bits of work

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Speaker 7: done through years. Yeah, a door added, some you know,

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Speaker 7: door moved and window added, that other thing that sort

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Speaker 7: of back in the days.

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Speaker 5: Oh, Ross, I'd lost Ross. Ah, we'll see what.

347
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Speaker 9: What we can do.

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Speaker 5: We might be able to get them back somehow. Right,

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Speaker 5: either way, we'll have to continue on. I think slightly

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00:20:08,975 --> 00:20:11,815
Speaker 5: tongue in cheek from Simon Pete. I have a simple,

351
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Speaker 5: cheap and fast solution for the guy wanting to alter

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Speaker 5: his stucco house so significantly, sell it and buy the

353
00:20:18,135 --> 00:20:21,735
Speaker 5: house you actually want. Yeah, but look for a thousand

354
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Speaker 5: different reasons. People want to stay where they are, or

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Speaker 5: they love the house that they are. It's got history

356
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Speaker 5: and heritage and meaning to them. But I can see

357
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Speaker 5: this becoming a reasonably large project. Obviously great call. It

358
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Speaker 5: in exactly the same situation with the stucco house from

359
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Speaker 5: the nineteen forties with a parapet roof. Some of the

360
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Speaker 5: stucco is cracking. It is worth repairing or recladding. I

361
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Speaker 5: have heard that the new plaster cladding doesn't last as long. Well,

362
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Speaker 5: we don't know that because if you put it on today,

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Speaker 5: you've got to wait seventy odd years to be able

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Speaker 5: to make that judgment, and I think some of it

365
00:20:53,255 --> 00:20:56,815
Speaker 5: will be around seventy years time to be fair. So

366
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Speaker 5: in terms of the hairline cracking for that text, yeah,

367
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Speaker 5: you can do repairs. You can definitely do targeted repairs.

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Speaker 5: I think where Ross was heading is that by the

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Speaker 5: time if every single window is coming out and a

370
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Speaker 5: few other alterations are being done, you spend an awful

371
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Speaker 5: lot of time doing the make good the repair plants.

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Speaker 5: Whereas you know, if you can imagine bear framing, new

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Speaker 5: joinery installed and then the people coming to do the

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Speaker 5: work come and they're fixing the new vapor barrier, they

375
00:21:31,375 --> 00:21:33,695
Speaker 5: might be doing cavity, they'll fix their new cladding. They've

376
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Speaker 5: got a suite of flashings that go around the joinery

377
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Speaker 5: that integrate with it. You know, the same number of hours,

378
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Speaker 5: well probably even less hours will be spent on a

379
00:21:44,855 --> 00:21:48,295
Speaker 5: new cladding than you will repairing old cladding. And that's

380
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Speaker 5: me kind of talking from a point of view where

381
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Speaker 5: I've spent you know, hours and hours and hours doing

382
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Speaker 5: repairs that you go. Maybe it would have been just

383
00:21:57,575 --> 00:22:00,015
Speaker 5: quicker to rip it all out and start again. Oh

384
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Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'll take a break.

385
00:22:02,135 --> 00:22:06,095
Speaker 5: We'll come back with your calls. Remember, Minister for Building

386
00:22:06,455 --> 00:22:09,535
Speaker 5: Construction Chris Pink will be joining me in the studio

387
00:22:09,615 --> 00:22:11,735
Speaker 5: in about nour's time. So if you've got a question

388
00:22:12,095 --> 00:22:15,615
Speaker 5: for the Minister, text it through nine to nine two.

389
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Speaker 5: If you want to do something slightly longer, then feel

390
00:22:18,375 --> 00:22:21,575
Speaker 5: free to email me. It's Pete at NEWSTALKSB dot co

391
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Speaker 5: dot nz. It is six thirty one here News Talks

392
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Speaker 5: eb Squeaky door or Squeaky floor.

393
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Speaker 1: Get the right advice from Peter Wolfcare, the resident builder

394
00:22:32,255 --> 00:22:33,255
Speaker 1: on NEWSTALKSB.

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Speaker 5: Taking your calls about all things building in construction. Oh

396
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Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number to call.

397
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Speaker 5: We've got rossback so we can wrap this one up. Ross,

398
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Speaker 5: thanks for coming back to us.

399
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Speaker 7: Oh sorry, that's fine.

400
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Speaker 5: You at the stage like we're you know, it's a

401
00:22:49,775 --> 00:22:53,255
Speaker 5: bit of a seesaw thing. Do the repairs or do

402
00:22:53,415 --> 00:22:56,615
Speaker 5: the the remedia work, leaving the bulk of the stucco

403
00:22:56,735 --> 00:23:00,935
Speaker 5: on or kind of bite the bullet and strip it off.

404
00:23:01,415 --> 00:23:03,615
Speaker 5: How how do you think you'll make your decision?

405
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Speaker 7: Well, basically, I was just sort of getting a guideline

406
00:23:06,775 --> 00:23:09,055
Speaker 7: from you on you know, once you go so far

407
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Speaker 7: with stucco, and from what you said, you know, spend

408
00:23:11,655 --> 00:23:15,615
Speaker 7: a day literally during one window, you pretty much as

409
00:23:15,655 --> 00:23:18,735
Speaker 7: you said, for the time that involved, you would have

410
00:23:18,775 --> 00:23:21,175
Speaker 7: been quicker to strip it off. That's in that sentence

411
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Speaker 7: you sum it up for me.

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Speaker 5: I mean, look, you'd want to do a bit of

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00:23:25,815 --> 00:23:28,135
Speaker 5: a cost analysis of that as well, so you know,

414
00:23:28,255 --> 00:23:30,695
Speaker 5: I if it was me, i'd probably reach out to

415
00:23:30,735 --> 00:23:34,495
Speaker 5: a local razine contractor, so a razine construction guy. They'll

416
00:23:34,535 --> 00:23:37,055
Speaker 5: be just even if you go through the Rasine construction,

417
00:23:37,615 --> 00:23:41,575
Speaker 5: They'll give you names of contractors in your area. Maybe

418
00:23:41,655 --> 00:23:43,615
Speaker 5: get two of them to come out have a walk around.

419
00:23:43,695 --> 00:23:49,015
Speaker 5: Because you're not extending the house tremendously the footprint, so

420
00:23:49,095 --> 00:23:51,815
Speaker 5: you can literally measure what's there and go even if

421
00:23:51,855 --> 00:23:54,975
Speaker 5: you have some laborers strip it off and then go okay,

422
00:23:55,575 --> 00:23:57,855
Speaker 5: when you arrive on site, new joiner will be in,

423
00:23:58,575 --> 00:24:02,255
Speaker 5: cladding will be removed, existing stucco will be gone. I

424
00:24:02,375 --> 00:24:05,175
Speaker 5: want you to take it basically from frames through to

425
00:24:05,255 --> 00:24:08,495
Speaker 5: finished and and get a price. I suppose What will

426
00:24:08,535 --> 00:24:11,655
Speaker 5: be really hard is to get a contractor to give

427
00:24:11,735 --> 00:24:14,735
Speaker 5: you a price for the alternative, which is leaving some

428
00:24:14,855 --> 00:24:17,535
Speaker 5: of the the bulk of the stucco in, but then

429
00:24:17,895 --> 00:24:20,015
Speaker 5: you know, doing the tidy up around the windows, because

430
00:24:20,055 --> 00:24:23,415
Speaker 5: those sorts of jobs almost no one will price for it.

431
00:24:24,175 --> 00:24:26,255
Speaker 5: Pretty much. Everyone will be looking at well, it'll be

432
00:24:26,295 --> 00:24:28,495
Speaker 5: an hourly rate and it'll take as long as it

433
00:24:28,655 --> 00:24:30,735
Speaker 5: takes sort of thing, which is, you know, if you're

434
00:24:30,775 --> 00:24:35,055
Speaker 5: the contractor, that's not an unfair stance to take because

435
00:24:35,175 --> 00:24:39,335
Speaker 5: you just don't know whereas if it's clean and ready

436
00:24:39,375 --> 00:24:42,655
Speaker 5: to go, you can go, Okay, here's my square meter rate,

437
00:24:42,855 --> 00:24:44,575
Speaker 5: or I think it'll be this amount of time, a

438
00:24:44,615 --> 00:24:47,615
Speaker 5: little bit of scaffolding. We're into it, so you know,

439
00:24:47,975 --> 00:24:49,335
Speaker 5: do a bit of a cost analysis.

440
00:24:50,215 --> 00:24:52,215
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I had I spoke to Mason, the guy,

441
00:24:52,255 --> 00:24:54,495
Speaker 7: and he's actually been up for a look, and he said,

442
00:24:54,535 --> 00:24:58,535
Speaker 7: you know about overall cost benefit. He said, yeah, probably

443
00:24:58,655 --> 00:25:01,215
Speaker 7: do it, And you know, it's just I'm sort of

444
00:25:01,255 --> 00:25:03,935
Speaker 7: getting this picture, but you know, of course you're looking

445
00:25:03,975 --> 00:25:07,015
Speaker 7: at he re estimated probably it's going to an excessive

446
00:25:07,775 --> 00:25:10,295
Speaker 7: We'll probably fifteen tons of concrete on the outside.

447
00:25:10,375 --> 00:25:13,095
Speaker 6: So you think okayh yeah, you got to get rid

448
00:25:13,135 --> 00:25:13,495
Speaker 6: of that too.

449
00:25:13,575 --> 00:25:13,735
Speaker 5: Eh.

450
00:25:15,615 --> 00:25:15,775
Speaker 10: Oh.

451
00:25:15,855 --> 00:25:19,015
Speaker 5: We're really struggling with the phone line, but I think

452
00:25:19,055 --> 00:25:21,175
Speaker 5: we got there in the end. Hey, Ross, thank you

453
00:25:21,455 --> 00:25:23,655
Speaker 5: very much for your call. Really good to talk with

454
00:25:23,735 --> 00:25:25,975
Speaker 5: you today, and I hope it all works out in

455
00:25:26,095 --> 00:25:29,455
Speaker 5: the in the project eight hundred eighty ten eighty, we've

456
00:25:29,455 --> 00:25:31,055
Speaker 5: got a couple of spear lines for you right now.

457
00:25:31,135 --> 00:25:34,055
Speaker 5: Remember minister coming in at around seven thirty. But the

458
00:25:34,135 --> 00:25:36,535
Speaker 5: plan is that we talk with you before then, So

459
00:25:36,735 --> 00:25:39,095
Speaker 5: now is a great time to call eight hundred eighty

460
00:25:39,215 --> 00:25:39,895
Speaker 5: ten eighty.

461
00:25:40,255 --> 00:25:44,135
Speaker 1: Helping you get those DIY projects done right. The resident

462
00:25:44,215 --> 00:25:47,535
Speaker 1: builder with peta Wolfcat call, Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty.

463
00:25:47,655 --> 00:25:48,655
Speaker 6: You've talk ZB.

464
00:25:49,215 --> 00:25:51,215
Speaker 5: Yeah and news talk c B. We are talking all

465
00:25:51,295 --> 00:25:53,855
Speaker 5: things building in construction. We've had a couple of technical

466
00:25:53,895 --> 00:25:56,095
Speaker 5: issues with the phone system, so I think we've got

467
00:25:56,135 --> 00:25:58,815
Speaker 5: that sorted out now, So don't let that get a

468
00:25:58,855 --> 00:26:00,895
Speaker 5: new eight. Give us a call right now on eight

469
00:26:01,015 --> 00:26:04,015
Speaker 5: hundred eighty ten eighty to discuss anything to do with

470
00:26:04,135 --> 00:26:08,295
Speaker 5: building construction alterations. I mean, real challenge for Ross with

471
00:26:08,415 --> 00:26:12,935
Speaker 5: his house, so nineteen thirties maybe nineteen forties stucco house

472
00:26:12,975 --> 00:26:15,455
Speaker 5: I've got a fairly clear picture in mind, you know,

473
00:26:15,615 --> 00:26:21,295
Speaker 5: sort of reasonably straightforward front long return, big longs low

474
00:26:21,375 --> 00:26:24,375
Speaker 5: pitch roof, tucked in behind some parapets on three sides,

475
00:26:24,815 --> 00:26:29,095
Speaker 5: and that beautiful classic stucco appearance. But the challenge will

476
00:26:29,135 --> 00:26:30,975
Speaker 5: be take out a window. You've got to try and

477
00:26:31,855 --> 00:26:35,175
Speaker 5: join your new stucco to your existing stucco. There'll be

478
00:26:35,215 --> 00:26:37,215
Speaker 5: a whole lot of changes. That sort of work is

479
00:26:37,295 --> 00:26:41,375
Speaker 5: quite labor intensive. It's doable, and if you're doing one window, sure,

480
00:26:41,895 --> 00:26:45,015
Speaker 5: but once you start doing every single window and make

481
00:26:45,135 --> 00:26:47,375
Speaker 5: some other changes, then you kind of go gosh by

482
00:26:47,415 --> 00:26:49,215
Speaker 5: the time I fix this one, fix that, one fix,

483
00:26:49,255 --> 00:26:50,975
Speaker 5: that one fix, that one fix that one, et cetera,

484
00:26:51,015 --> 00:26:53,855
Speaker 5: et cetera. Do I look at just stripping everything off

485
00:26:54,255 --> 00:26:57,175
Speaker 5: and being able to do modern stucco into the same place.

486
00:26:57,255 --> 00:27:01,215
Speaker 5: So that's an interesting dilemma to work through. And sometimes

487
00:27:01,295 --> 00:27:04,055
Speaker 5: the kind of bite the bullet, strip it off and

488
00:27:04,415 --> 00:27:09,295
Speaker 5: start afresh might actually end up costing you hopefully a

489
00:27:09,295 --> 00:27:12,015
Speaker 5: little bit less or the same, but probably give you

490
00:27:12,135 --> 00:27:14,815
Speaker 5: a better result in the long run. So an interesting dilemma.

491
00:27:15,335 --> 00:27:17,615
Speaker 5: He has another dilemma, but it's about joinery. Hey, Pete

492
00:27:17,615 --> 00:27:20,535
Speaker 5: can you please explain the benefits of steel window joinery

493
00:27:20,615 --> 00:27:23,895
Speaker 5: compared to aluminium jowinery. Is it just the smaller profile

494
00:27:24,015 --> 00:27:26,855
Speaker 5: size of the steel section or are there other advantages.

495
00:27:26,935 --> 00:27:29,575
Speaker 5: I'm aware of how much more expensive the steel is

496
00:27:30,015 --> 00:27:33,655
Speaker 5: thanks from BREM. Certainly I hear what you're saying about

497
00:27:33,655 --> 00:27:38,455
Speaker 5: the small profile. I wonder how they get by now

498
00:27:38,655 --> 00:27:42,855
Speaker 5: in terms of getting steel joinery, which I mean, I

499
00:27:43,015 --> 00:27:46,895
Speaker 5: get it. I think it can add real character and

500
00:27:47,095 --> 00:27:49,455
Speaker 5: so on. And I've seen, in fact, a house that

501
00:27:49,575 --> 00:27:53,775
Speaker 5: recently won an award at the Architectural Designers in New Zealand,

502
00:27:56,055 --> 00:28:00,655
Speaker 5: Auckland and Northland awards featured some of that steel joinery

503
00:28:00,695 --> 00:28:03,935
Speaker 5: and it did look stunning. What I always wonder about

504
00:28:03,975 --> 00:28:07,335
Speaker 5: is how then you achieve the H one requirements, because

505
00:28:07,335 --> 00:28:11,575
Speaker 5: obviously steel, like aluminium, is a really good conductor of energy,

506
00:28:12,575 --> 00:28:15,575
Speaker 5: in which case, how do you ensure that you've got

507
00:28:15,655 --> 00:28:17,775
Speaker 5: a thermal break. I'm sure there are ways of doing it,

508
00:28:17,855 --> 00:28:20,895
Speaker 5: but it would start to get quite complicated at that point.

509
00:28:21,375 --> 00:28:25,175
Speaker 5: If it's just a choice between those two, then yes,

510
00:28:25,255 --> 00:28:27,295
Speaker 5: I guess the advantage is that you can have a

511
00:28:27,375 --> 00:28:31,295
Speaker 5: much slimmer profile with steel joinery than you can with aluminium.

512
00:28:33,695 --> 00:28:38,455
Speaker 5: But it's performance wise that it'd be quite a challenge,

513
00:28:38,535 --> 00:28:42,055
Speaker 5: I think in terms of its thermal performance. And yeah,

514
00:28:42,095 --> 00:28:44,415
Speaker 5: you're right, it is expensive. There are very few people

515
00:28:44,495 --> 00:28:48,095
Speaker 5: that do it. It's quite it's not complicated. It's just

516
00:28:48,175 --> 00:28:50,895
Speaker 5: that there's not many people doing it, and that makes

517
00:28:50,935 --> 00:28:53,935
Speaker 5: it a bit scarce and a bit more expensive. You

518
00:28:53,975 --> 00:28:56,855
Speaker 5: could always look at your PVC. It'd be awesome. Oh eight,

519
00:28:56,855 --> 00:28:58,855
Speaker 5: one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call

520
00:28:58,935 --> 00:29:01,975
Speaker 5: cord it six or cold to seven. Rather, if you've

521
00:29:02,095 --> 00:29:04,415
Speaker 5: got a question of building nature, we can do that.

522
00:29:05,055 --> 00:29:07,495
Speaker 5: Some questions are coming through the minister as well. There

523
00:29:07,535 --> 00:29:10,135
Speaker 5: are some things that are outside of his jurisdiction. So

524
00:29:10,175 --> 00:29:13,135
Speaker 5: I'm not going to ask why this question from Bill?

525
00:29:13,255 --> 00:29:16,175
Speaker 5: Why waste so much money and time changing the unitary Plan,

526
00:29:16,255 --> 00:29:20,215
Speaker 5: which was only introduced relatively recently. It's already cost ratepayers

527
00:29:20,255 --> 00:29:23,695
Speaker 5: and taxpayers of fortune achieved similar goals to intensification around

528
00:29:23,735 --> 00:29:30,255
Speaker 5: transport hubs. I think you're probably right, Bill. I'm not

529
00:29:30,495 --> 00:29:34,135
Speaker 5: sure that this change, given that the Unitary Plan seemed

530
00:29:34,175 --> 00:29:37,095
Speaker 5: to have some support and made a lot of sense,

531
00:29:38,375 --> 00:29:41,855
Speaker 5: why we're suddenly doing the change. It's certainly sorry. This

532
00:29:42,015 --> 00:29:43,975
Speaker 5: is kind of a bit of an Auckland issue at

533
00:29:44,015 --> 00:29:48,135
Speaker 5: the moment. But the recent proposed changes to the zoning

534
00:29:48,215 --> 00:29:52,215
Speaker 5: regulations have come out. It's prompted all sorts of kind

535
00:29:52,255 --> 00:29:56,455
Speaker 5: of you know, community meetings, people getting together thinking, gosh,

536
00:29:56,495 --> 00:29:59,055
Speaker 5: here I am in my nice little leafy street, and

537
00:29:59,175 --> 00:30:02,095
Speaker 5: now apparently my neighbor, if they were so inclined, can

538
00:30:02,175 --> 00:30:07,135
Speaker 5: build to ten stories. It's quite unsettling. In the last

539
00:30:07,215 --> 00:30:09,535
Speaker 5: couple of days, with all the discussions I've had with people,

540
00:30:09,895 --> 00:30:12,575
Speaker 5: that came up as a bit of a theme too. Hey, look,

541
00:30:12,655 --> 00:30:15,735
Speaker 5: we're in a kind of a heritage zone, or we're

542
00:30:15,895 --> 00:30:19,535
Speaker 5: close to transport, but we're in a kind of leafy street.

543
00:30:19,735 --> 00:30:23,455
Speaker 5: And now potentially my neighbor could go to five stories,

544
00:30:23,495 --> 00:30:27,215
Speaker 5: which is quite imposing. Or my neighbor can now remove

545
00:30:27,255 --> 00:30:31,015
Speaker 5: the house and put three three story townhouses that will

546
00:30:31,055 --> 00:30:34,815
Speaker 5: be one meter from my side boundary, and my heightened

547
00:30:34,815 --> 00:30:37,255
Speaker 5: relation to boundary has gone from sort of two point

548
00:30:37,575 --> 00:30:40,295
Speaker 5: four meters with maybe a forty five degree pitch or

549
00:30:40,375 --> 00:30:43,095
Speaker 5: even in some cases lower than that, to a three

550
00:30:43,175 --> 00:30:47,655
Speaker 5: meter at forty five degrees. It becomes quite imposing. I

551
00:30:47,735 --> 00:30:50,095
Speaker 5: think we need to intensify. That's true for all cities.

552
00:30:50,735 --> 00:30:54,175
Speaker 5: I'd rather see more development inside the city boundaries than

553
00:30:54,335 --> 00:30:59,255
Speaker 5: continually spreading out. But have they got the mix right?

554
00:31:00,455 --> 00:31:02,535
Speaker 5: I'm happy to talk about that. Oh eight hundred eighty

555
00:31:02,655 --> 00:31:05,015
Speaker 5: ten eighty is that number to call if you've got

556
00:31:05,015 --> 00:31:07,335
Speaker 5: a question of a building. Nature will take your calls

557
00:31:07,695 --> 00:31:09,415
Speaker 5: in just a moment. If you want to send through

558
00:31:09,615 --> 00:31:12,655
Speaker 5: your questions for the Minister, you are more than Malcolm

559
00:31:12,695 --> 00:31:16,095
Speaker 5: to do that as well. Send those through on text

560
00:31:16,495 --> 00:31:19,415
Speaker 5: nine to nine two. We're starting to get some really

561
00:31:19,495 --> 00:31:23,335
Speaker 5: good concise questions that we will put to the Minister

562
00:31:23,455 --> 00:31:26,415
Speaker 5: when he comes into the studio, which will be awesome.

563
00:31:26,615 --> 00:31:29,175
Speaker 5: Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is that number to call.

564
00:31:29,335 --> 00:31:31,135
Speaker 5: I think we've got some callers on the line, will

565
00:31:31,135 --> 00:31:34,295
Speaker 5: come to them in just a moment. Also, in the

566
00:31:34,375 --> 00:31:37,255
Speaker 5: next hour we will chat with Mike Olds from Razine Construction.

567
00:31:37,695 --> 00:31:40,295
Speaker 5: Bit of a quick catch up with Mike just ahead

568
00:31:40,335 --> 00:31:42,695
Speaker 5: of the Minister being here. And remember we will continue

569
00:31:43,335 --> 00:31:46,175
Speaker 5: to have rid on at eight thirty as well, So

570
00:31:46,695 --> 00:31:49,295
Speaker 5: if you've got any gardening questions, get those ready and

571
00:31:49,375 --> 00:31:54,375
Speaker 5: we'll have the minister after Chris Pink finishes up at

572
00:31:54,695 --> 00:31:55,735
Speaker 5: eight thirty, then.

573
00:31:55,695 --> 00:31:56,055
Speaker 8: We'll have.

574
00:31:57,775 --> 00:32:01,295
Speaker 5: Ridd here as well. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty

575
00:32:01,415 --> 00:32:02,295
Speaker 5: is that number to call?

576
00:32:02,815 --> 00:32:03,375
Speaker 6: Just go and check.

577
00:32:03,455 --> 00:32:06,935
Speaker 5: Can we take that call? Ah, I'm not sure yet.

578
00:32:07,055 --> 00:32:09,615
Speaker 5: All right, Now here we go, going to build a

579
00:32:09,695 --> 00:32:12,935
Speaker 5: Queler deck over a concrete pad. What's the recommended with

580
00:32:13,215 --> 00:32:17,455
Speaker 5: between the joists and any other tips and pitfalls? A

581
00:32:17,535 --> 00:32:20,335
Speaker 5: couple of things on that. What I would suggest is

582
00:32:20,535 --> 00:32:24,495
Speaker 5: that you make sure that whatever timber you put on

583
00:32:24,735 --> 00:32:28,735
Speaker 5: the concrete pad, that you separate it with some DPC. Right, So,

584
00:32:28,935 --> 00:32:32,015
Speaker 5: with some Malthoid or other type of DPC, you make

585
00:32:32,095 --> 00:32:34,575
Speaker 5: sure that the timber is not sitting directly on the concrete.

586
00:32:35,375 --> 00:32:38,495
Speaker 5: And typically for Quela, if it's sort of ninety mili wide,

587
00:32:38,575 --> 00:32:42,455
Speaker 5: Quilla four fifty is about the comfortable span for that.

588
00:32:43,655 --> 00:32:45,655
Speaker 5: And if it's going to be that close to the ground,

589
00:32:45,855 --> 00:32:49,455
Speaker 5: it might be worth investing in stainless steel fixings for

590
00:32:49,815 --> 00:32:52,935
Speaker 5: your connections rather because it's just so close to the ground,

591
00:32:53,175 --> 00:32:59,255
Speaker 5: rather than conventional galve. Apart from that, get stuck in, Bruce,

592
00:32:59,295 --> 00:32:59,895
Speaker 5: Good morning to you.

593
00:33:02,975 --> 00:33:05,455
Speaker 4: Right, this is interesting, interesting one I think a lot

594
00:33:05,495 --> 00:33:06,775
Speaker 4: of people would be interested in.

595
00:33:07,575 --> 00:33:11,055
Speaker 5: Just sorry, just hang, you didn't quite go to where

596
00:33:11,095 --> 00:33:13,495
Speaker 5: when I pressed the button. So let's start from the beginning.

597
00:33:13,575 --> 00:33:15,375
Speaker 5: Good morning, Bruce, what's on your mind?

598
00:33:17,935 --> 00:33:19,095
Speaker 9: In the UK?

599
00:33:19,255 --> 00:33:21,935
Speaker 4: In London, there's a thing called which you will see

600
00:33:22,015 --> 00:33:24,175
Speaker 4: under some windows. It's called ancient lights.

601
00:33:25,375 --> 00:33:27,175
Speaker 5: And what's it called ancient lights?

602
00:33:27,615 --> 00:33:30,775
Speaker 4: Ancient lights? It's written under some of the windows. We can't.

603
00:33:30,815 --> 00:33:32,855
Speaker 4: I come across it the way back in the seventies.

604
00:33:33,375 --> 00:33:35,255
Speaker 4: And what it means is that if you have that,

605
00:33:35,455 --> 00:33:37,935
Speaker 4: there are some conditions under which it is you are

606
00:33:37,975 --> 00:33:41,695
Speaker 4: not allowed to box the person's light right, And I

607
00:33:41,775 --> 00:33:44,095
Speaker 4: think that would be a good idea. There's something like

608
00:33:44,215 --> 00:33:44,695
Speaker 4: that here.

609
00:33:46,575 --> 00:33:52,815
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm just typing it into right to lights. The

610
00:33:52,975 --> 00:33:55,895
Speaker 5: right to light is a form of Easbenton English law

611
00:33:55,975 --> 00:33:58,415
Speaker 5: that gives a long standing owner of a building with

612
00:33:58,575 --> 00:34:02,375
Speaker 5: windows a right to maintain an adequate level of illumination.

613
00:34:03,215 --> 00:34:06,215
Speaker 5: The rightless traditional ancient lights.

614
00:34:07,255 --> 00:34:09,535
Speaker 4: Yeah, so would that be good if we had there here?

615
00:34:09,855 --> 00:34:14,575
Speaker 5: Okay, it's a really interesting thing. That's fascinating. I quite

616
00:34:14,655 --> 00:34:18,135
Speaker 5: like that. I might even find myself later.

617
00:34:17,975 --> 00:34:19,895
Speaker 6: On this year A lot of people would like it.

618
00:34:20,615 --> 00:34:22,175
Speaker 5: Okay, it's fabulous.

619
00:34:22,335 --> 00:34:23,055
Speaker 4: I really like that.

620
00:34:23,335 --> 00:34:26,775
Speaker 5: Thank you very much, mate, That's awesome. All the bestie, Bruce. Oh,

621
00:34:26,815 --> 00:34:29,375
Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

622
00:34:30,255 --> 00:34:33,535
Speaker 5: Pete Northland don't need to worry about H one. They're exempt.

623
00:34:33,775 --> 00:34:40,215
Speaker 5: No they're not. No, No they're not. Oh this is extraordinary.

624
00:34:41,335 --> 00:34:43,735
Speaker 5: Pete Northland don't need to worry about H one. They

625
00:34:43,815 --> 00:34:47,295
Speaker 5: are exempt. No they're not. No one's going to be

626
00:34:47,375 --> 00:34:51,895
Speaker 5: exempt from H one. How we calculate H one is

627
00:34:52,015 --> 00:34:55,735
Speaker 5: going to change. But I wonder if this is a

628
00:34:55,815 --> 00:34:58,815
Speaker 5: Shane Jones things He's wandering around up north going to

629
00:34:58,895 --> 00:35:01,455
Speaker 5: the people. Don't worry folks, building code doesn't apply to us.

630
00:35:01,855 --> 00:35:04,775
Speaker 5: We're kind of special. We've got an exemption from H one.

631
00:35:05,215 --> 00:35:10,535
Speaker 5: That is not that's true, Okay. H one applies to

632
00:35:10,615 --> 00:35:13,375
Speaker 5: the entire country. The biggest change to H one is

633
00:35:13,415 --> 00:35:16,815
Speaker 5: we're going to remove the proposal is to remove the

634
00:35:16,935 --> 00:35:20,055
Speaker 5: schedule method, which is kind of a tick box approach,

635
00:35:21,095 --> 00:35:24,775
Speaker 5: and all buildings will need to either be modeled or calculated.

636
00:35:24,855 --> 00:35:28,015
Speaker 5: So you need to use the calculation model to determine

637
00:35:28,175 --> 00:35:31,415
Speaker 5: the energy efficiency of the building, and that will tell

638
00:35:31,455 --> 00:35:33,855
Speaker 5: you what types of insulation go well. And it's a

639
00:35:33,975 --> 00:35:38,615
Speaker 5: combination of all factors that will give you basically a

640
00:35:38,735 --> 00:35:42,735
Speaker 5: sense of energy rating. So if for example, you put

641
00:35:43,135 --> 00:35:46,615
Speaker 5: smaller windows in, you put high performing double glazing in

642
00:35:46,775 --> 00:35:50,055
Speaker 5: there you use high performing joinery, you might find that

643
00:35:50,095 --> 00:35:52,015
Speaker 5: you don't need to put as much insulation in the

644
00:35:52,135 --> 00:35:54,975
Speaker 5: roof space or in the wall, or do edge insulation

645
00:35:55,135 --> 00:36:00,175
Speaker 5: those sorts of things. So that's the change schedule method

646
00:36:00,295 --> 00:36:02,495
Speaker 5: is on the way out. It'll be gone by about

647
00:36:02,575 --> 00:36:07,375
Speaker 5: November of twenty twenty six, I think, and calculation and

648
00:36:07,535 --> 00:36:11,655
Speaker 5: modeling will be the pathway to compliance and to the text.

649
00:36:12,295 --> 00:36:15,335
Speaker 5: Northland is not going to be exempt from that as well.

650
00:36:15,895 --> 00:36:17,695
Speaker 5: Time for your calls, Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten

651
00:36:17,815 --> 00:36:20,255
Speaker 5: eighty is the number to call. Are the texts came through?

652
00:36:20,375 --> 00:36:22,935
Speaker 5: Did the interview? Did I miss the interview last week?

653
00:36:23,015 --> 00:36:25,695
Speaker 5: Read the extraction systems? It was interesting with that guy

654
00:36:25,815 --> 00:36:29,335
Speaker 5: and running the heat chairs from Andrew. I spoke with

655
00:36:29,695 --> 00:36:35,255
Speaker 5: about my expert our expert storm last or week before.

656
00:36:35,895 --> 00:36:39,615
Speaker 5: And so the theory behind it is is in the

657
00:36:39,655 --> 00:36:43,455
Speaker 5: bathroom you put the heaters on first, which warms up

658
00:36:43,535 --> 00:36:47,495
Speaker 5: the space. Then you have the shower without running the extraction,

659
00:36:48,175 --> 00:36:51,495
Speaker 5: and only turn the extraction on when you've finished in

660
00:36:51,815 --> 00:36:55,015
Speaker 5: the shower. And if that was the process, you would

661
00:36:55,055 --> 00:36:58,055
Speaker 5: get less or you don't get much condensation. The reason

662
00:36:58,135 --> 00:37:01,735
Speaker 5: being is that the surfaces inside the bathroom theoretically will

663
00:37:01,815 --> 00:37:05,055
Speaker 5: be warmer, and so you won't get condensation collecting on

664
00:37:05,175 --> 00:37:09,295
Speaker 5: there because there's not that contrast between cold and moist

665
00:37:09,375 --> 00:37:11,775
Speaker 5: air and a cold surface. If you warm the surface up,

666
00:37:12,095 --> 00:37:15,255
Speaker 5: you'll get less condensation. You'll still get condensation in the

667
00:37:15,295 --> 00:37:17,935
Speaker 5: space because the steam. The same amount of steam has

668
00:37:17,975 --> 00:37:22,775
Speaker 5: created just won't be as evident. So the analysis was basically,

669
00:37:22,895 --> 00:37:26,135
Speaker 5: if it works for you, that's fine. I did kind

670
00:37:26,215 --> 00:37:29,095
Speaker 5: of try it the other day. Didn't work right, So

671
00:37:30,175 --> 00:37:32,575
Speaker 5: I will do what I always do when I'm ready

672
00:37:32,615 --> 00:37:34,775
Speaker 5: to have a shower. I turn the extraction on, I

673
00:37:34,855 --> 00:37:37,735
Speaker 5: turn the shower on, I have my shower. There's no

674
00:37:37,855 --> 00:37:42,935
Speaker 5: steam in the bathroom because the extraction's big. It runs correctly.

675
00:37:43,455 --> 00:37:45,735
Speaker 5: It's a straight line to the outside of the building.

676
00:37:46,135 --> 00:37:48,535
Speaker 5: It's not going up and over joists and doing a

677
00:37:48,655 --> 00:37:50,855
Speaker 5: dog leg and a turn, and I haven't crushed it

678
00:37:51,055 --> 00:37:54,055
Speaker 5: so that it can fit outside all those sorts of things.

679
00:37:54,895 --> 00:37:58,455
Speaker 5: It's a nice straight run from where there's a hole

680
00:37:58,495 --> 00:38:02,135
Speaker 5: in the ceiling basically to where I've put an outlet

681
00:38:02,295 --> 00:38:05,535
Speaker 5: in the safita. And it works well, and I leave

682
00:38:05,535 --> 00:38:07,895
Speaker 5: it running for as long as I possibly can. The

683
00:38:07,975 --> 00:38:09,775
Speaker 5: other one that we installed a little while ago that

684
00:38:09,895 --> 00:38:12,415
Speaker 5: works I think is going to work extremely well. It's

685
00:38:12,415 --> 00:38:14,455
Speaker 5: an a rental property that I look after for a

686
00:38:14,535 --> 00:38:19,815
Speaker 5: landlord where we put in essentially a constant flow fan,

687
00:38:21,095 --> 00:38:23,335
Speaker 5: which means that we'll run at a very low rate

688
00:38:23,575 --> 00:38:27,615
Speaker 5: all of the time, just encouraging airflow, extracting moist are

689
00:38:27,695 --> 00:38:30,215
Speaker 5: out of the room and then when it detects it's

690
00:38:30,255 --> 00:38:32,255
Speaker 5: got a little sensor in it when it detects that

691
00:38:32,335 --> 00:38:34,255
Speaker 5: there's moisture. And we tested it the other day, so

692
00:38:34,415 --> 00:38:36,495
Speaker 5: put the fan in, you can hear it running, turn

693
00:38:36,575 --> 00:38:39,375
Speaker 5: the shower on super hot, get the steam going, and

694
00:38:39,535 --> 00:38:41,295
Speaker 5: you can hear the fan ramping up and you can

695
00:38:41,335 --> 00:38:45,135
Speaker 5: actually see the steam being directed to the extraction and

696
00:38:45,335 --> 00:38:47,815
Speaker 5: out it goes, and it will run until it detects

697
00:38:47,935 --> 00:38:50,375
Speaker 5: that the moisture has reduced to a certain level and

698
00:38:50,455 --> 00:38:52,695
Speaker 5: you can set that level on there as well. So

699
00:38:52,855 --> 00:38:56,455
Speaker 5: that's a Cimix fan SIMX fan that we just installed

700
00:38:56,575 --> 00:38:59,495
Speaker 5: and be interesting to monitor that over time worked really

701
00:38:59,615 --> 00:39:02,695
Speaker 5: really well. So if you want to talk about that,

702
00:39:02,815 --> 00:39:03,535
Speaker 5: we can do that.

703
00:39:04,895 --> 00:39:05,135
Speaker 9: Pete.

704
00:39:05,175 --> 00:39:07,535
Speaker 5: You are correct, there is a those change coming. In summary,

705
00:39:07,615 --> 00:39:11,255
Speaker 5: While a potential change could make insulation requirements less stringent

706
00:39:11,335 --> 00:39:13,895
Speaker 5: in parts of Northland. The region is not currently exempt

707
00:39:13,935 --> 00:39:16,415
Speaker 5: from the H one rules, nor will it ever be

708
00:39:17,415 --> 00:39:20,335
Speaker 5: exempt from the H one rules. But yes, you will

709
00:39:20,335 --> 00:39:22,095
Speaker 5: be able to calculate and you will be able to

710
00:39:22,175 --> 00:39:25,775
Speaker 5: go in this climatic zone. If it's unlikely to ever

711
00:39:25,895 --> 00:39:30,895
Speaker 5: get to zero or degrees outside, then how much insulation

712
00:39:31,055 --> 00:39:36,415
Speaker 5: do I actually need in order to keep warm?

713
00:39:36,535 --> 00:39:36,695
Speaker 6: You know?

714
00:39:36,895 --> 00:39:38,975
Speaker 5: And I mean I did chuckle when I saw the

715
00:39:39,095 --> 00:39:42,655
Speaker 5: interview several months ago, someone saying, well, look it's crazy

716
00:39:42,655 --> 00:39:44,335
Speaker 5: that I have to put R six point six in

717
00:39:44,375 --> 00:39:46,855
Speaker 5: the ceiling. You know, the house will be nice and warm,

718
00:39:46,895 --> 00:39:50,175
Speaker 5: and they're standing there with these massive ranch sliders with

719
00:39:50,295 --> 00:39:55,455
Speaker 5: the glass, which obviously will is not as thermly effective

720
00:39:55,615 --> 00:39:59,175
Speaker 5: as a wall. Going, well, that's why lots of glass.

721
00:39:59,215 --> 00:40:01,375
Speaker 5: You're probably going to need to put more insulation somewhere else.

722
00:40:01,415 --> 00:40:04,415
Speaker 5: You can get higher performance double glazing units obviously, but

723
00:40:04,495 --> 00:40:06,655
Speaker 5: you're still going to have to accommodate for or the

724
00:40:06,735 --> 00:40:09,935
Speaker 5: heat loss that you inevitably get through the glass. So anyway,

725
00:40:09,975 --> 00:40:12,175
Speaker 5: an interesting discussion might be something we mentioned to the

726
00:40:12,255 --> 00:40:14,415
Speaker 5: Minister when he joins us at around seven thirty. But

727
00:40:14,495 --> 00:40:17,015
Speaker 5: we'll take your calls if you've got a question. Eight

728
00:40:17,135 --> 00:40:19,495
Speaker 5: hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number to call?

729
00:40:20,535 --> 00:40:23,975
Speaker 5: And we'll, like I say, we'll talk to the minister

730
00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:28,975
Speaker 5: in the next hour. So we talked about the concrete pad. Oh,

731
00:40:29,135 --> 00:40:33,655
Speaker 5: some really good texts. Tiny homes yes again last couple

732
00:40:33,695 --> 00:40:36,735
Speaker 5: of days. Lots of conversations, lots of people saying, where

733
00:40:36,815 --> 00:40:41,135
Speaker 5: are we at with the tiny home, minor dwelling or

734
00:40:41,415 --> 00:40:44,975
Speaker 5: what are they calling it now? SSD simple standalone dwelling

735
00:40:45,415 --> 00:40:47,175
Speaker 5: is going to be the new word for granny flats?

736
00:40:47,495 --> 00:40:49,855
Speaker 5: When is it coming in? When can we start building?

737
00:40:50,495 --> 00:40:53,295
Speaker 5: Might have a bit of a chat around the changes

738
00:40:53,335 --> 00:40:57,215
Speaker 5: to where you put your sheds as well, might do

739
00:40:57,295 --> 00:40:59,015
Speaker 5: that as well. Right here, we've got a new sport

740
00:40:59,055 --> 00:41:00,655
Speaker 5: where the top of the are at seven will take

741
00:41:00,695 --> 00:41:03,495
Speaker 5: your calls after seven and from seven to thirty. Crisspink

742
00:41:03,575 --> 00:41:04,975
Speaker 5: minister here in the studio.

743
00:41:06,455 --> 00:41:13,375
Speaker 2: Good isn't it selling?

744
00:41:13,535 --> 00:41:14,815
Speaker 3: Mamie Bee ten them.

745
00:41:17,575 --> 00:41:18,855
Speaker 4: It is a little.

746
00:41:21,575 --> 00:41:25,335
Speaker 1: Meta twice god once. But maybe call Pete first, pet

747
00:41:25,335 --> 00:41:27,815
Speaker 1: your Wolfcamp the Resident Builder News Talks.

748
00:41:27,815 --> 00:41:30,295
Speaker 5: They'd be well, very good morning, welcome back to the show.

749
00:41:30,455 --> 00:41:32,815
Speaker 5: My name's Pete wolf Camp, resident builder, and we are

750
00:41:32,935 --> 00:41:35,655
Speaker 5: talking all things building. And Construction. So if you've got

751
00:41:35,695 --> 00:41:37,455
Speaker 5: a question, we've got a bit of time this morning

752
00:41:37,735 --> 00:41:39,615
Speaker 5: to take your calls about sort of general you know,

753
00:41:39,975 --> 00:41:44,455
Speaker 5: at edition's maintenance, renovations, contractors, products, et cetera. We can

754
00:41:44,495 --> 00:41:47,295
Speaker 5: talk about that. And then we have a guest coming

755
00:41:47,375 --> 00:41:49,695
Speaker 5: into the studio from around seven thirty this morning, so

756
00:41:50,175 --> 00:41:53,335
Speaker 5: the Minister for Building and Construction, Chris Pink will be

757
00:41:53,415 --> 00:41:55,895
Speaker 5: joining me in the studio, happy to take your texts

758
00:41:56,415 --> 00:41:59,535
Speaker 5: questions on that. So if you would, if you've got

759
00:41:59,615 --> 00:42:02,135
Speaker 5: a specific question. I mean, there's a whole lot of

760
00:42:02,255 --> 00:42:05,015
Speaker 5: sort of hot topics in the sense that there is

761
00:42:05,135 --> 00:42:08,735
Speaker 5: talk about then sort of freeing up the ability to

762
00:42:08,895 --> 00:42:13,415
Speaker 5: import building materials and products from overseas. How's that going

763
00:42:13,495 --> 00:42:18,895
Speaker 5: to work? We're talking about standalone minor dwellings without necessarily

764
00:42:18,975 --> 00:42:22,455
Speaker 5: requiring resource consent and building consent. How's that going to work?

765
00:42:22,735 --> 00:42:22,935
Speaker 8: We are?

766
00:42:22,935 --> 00:42:23,295
Speaker 9: Are we at?

767
00:42:23,535 --> 00:42:27,455
Speaker 5: And then the most recent fairly significant announcement is a

768
00:42:27,655 --> 00:42:33,175
Speaker 5: proposed change to the I suppose remediation or insurance side

769
00:42:33,215 --> 00:42:35,495
Speaker 5: of things, which is, if something goes wrong it is

770
00:42:35,655 --> 00:42:39,055
Speaker 5: joint and several liability at the moment that will move

771
00:42:39,455 --> 00:42:43,455
Speaker 5: to or it's proposed to move to proportional liability. How's

772
00:42:43,495 --> 00:42:48,615
Speaker 5: that going to work? And most importantly how homeowners consumer

773
00:42:48,695 --> 00:42:51,375
Speaker 5: is going to be protected in the future so that

774
00:42:51,575 --> 00:42:55,415
Speaker 5: if there is a problem that they can get all

775
00:42:55,495 --> 00:42:58,455
Speaker 5: of the costs met, not just a proportion of it

776
00:42:58,615 --> 00:43:00,695
Speaker 5: from the people who are still around to pay for it.

777
00:43:00,815 --> 00:43:03,255
Speaker 5: So we'll be talking about that and probably a whole

778
00:43:03,295 --> 00:43:07,215
Speaker 5: lot more with the Minister from around seventyir ety this morning. Mark,

779
00:43:07,375 --> 00:43:10,655
Speaker 5: Good morning to you, Pete. How are you very well

780
00:43:10,695 --> 00:43:11,175
Speaker 5: in yourself?

781
00:43:11,895 --> 00:43:15,895
Speaker 10: Good things, mate, go for it. So got a renovation

782
00:43:16,015 --> 00:43:17,495
Speaker 10: gate on at the moment. A couple of bathrooms.

783
00:43:17,575 --> 00:43:19,655
Speaker 6: Yes, just putting in the picture.

784
00:43:20,135 --> 00:43:25,055
Speaker 10: We had no under floor heating. Previously had a extractor,

785
00:43:25,335 --> 00:43:27,935
Speaker 10: fans in the in the roof with the with the

786
00:43:28,415 --> 00:43:28,975
Speaker 10: heat lamps.

787
00:43:29,215 --> 00:43:29,415
Speaker 9: Yep.

788
00:43:30,175 --> 00:43:32,775
Speaker 10: What we founds were actually those women in stored properly

789
00:43:32,815 --> 00:43:36,735
Speaker 10: and we're getting moisture creep with the obviously the fans

790
00:43:36,735 --> 00:43:40,655
Speaker 10: had blocked up in the cavity getting moisture keeps through

791
00:43:40,695 --> 00:43:44,015
Speaker 10: the pink bets. But anyway, yes, we ripped all those

792
00:43:44,055 --> 00:43:47,415
Speaker 10: out and putting in under floor heating in the new bathrooms.

793
00:43:47,495 --> 00:43:47,655
Speaker 9: Yep.

794
00:43:48,335 --> 00:43:49,975
Speaker 10: But what we want, what we wanted to find out

795
00:43:49,975 --> 00:43:51,175
Speaker 10: from you, it is sort of a bit of a

796
00:43:51,255 --> 00:43:54,255
Speaker 10: loss sort of understanding about what sort of the correct

797
00:43:54,295 --> 00:43:56,815
Speaker 10: thing to put into the bathrooms nowadays. But from my

798
00:43:56,975 --> 00:43:59,655
Speaker 10: point of view anyway, but all the trade is and

799
00:43:59,735 --> 00:44:04,215
Speaker 10: sort of they all come up with different solutions. What

800
00:44:04,335 --> 00:44:07,695
Speaker 10: I want to know is, is it do we lose

801
00:44:07,775 --> 00:44:10,575
Speaker 10: those extracted fans now? I mean no, no, no, no,

802
00:44:10,695 --> 00:44:12,535
Speaker 10: no no no, no, no no no.

803
00:44:13,135 --> 00:44:17,895
Speaker 5: I'm a huge fan of extraction. Right, So what I

804
00:44:18,095 --> 00:44:20,975
Speaker 5: like about and I've done it on a couple of projects.

805
00:44:21,215 --> 00:44:24,775
Speaker 5: You know, if the budget allows for it underfloor heating,

806
00:44:25,815 --> 00:44:28,015
Speaker 5: and I think the main benefit of that is that

807
00:44:28,255 --> 00:44:31,535
Speaker 5: just keeps the temperature in the room at a slightly

808
00:44:31,615 --> 00:44:34,415
Speaker 5: higher rate. And given that in a bathroom, you know

809
00:44:34,575 --> 00:44:37,735
Speaker 5: you've got obviously moisture that's generated when you're having a shower.

810
00:44:38,095 --> 00:44:40,975
Speaker 5: You've got like wet towels. You know, you finished drying

811
00:44:41,015 --> 00:44:44,175
Speaker 5: yourself off, you hang the towel up. It's it's holding

812
00:44:44,295 --> 00:44:46,855
Speaker 5: moisture in the space. And the way the best way

813
00:44:46,895 --> 00:44:49,215
Speaker 5: to think about it actually, and this was something again

814
00:44:49,295 --> 00:44:52,135
Speaker 5: that Storm was discussing and I picked up on. If

815
00:44:52,215 --> 00:44:54,375
Speaker 5: you think about a wet towel, right, you take a

816
00:44:54,535 --> 00:44:57,015
Speaker 5: towel out of the washing machine and it's been washed

817
00:44:57,055 --> 00:44:59,415
Speaker 5: and it's soaking wet, and feel the weight of it.

818
00:45:00,735 --> 00:45:04,815
Speaker 5: The weight is water, yeah, and then you dry it

819
00:45:05,695 --> 00:45:07,855
Speaker 5: and it's when it's dry, it's lighter.

820
00:45:08,495 --> 00:45:08,655
Speaker 3: Now.

821
00:45:08,975 --> 00:45:12,375
Speaker 5: The difference is the moisture. So if you've got that

822
00:45:12,535 --> 00:45:16,135
Speaker 5: inside and it's dried inside, that weight has gone into

823
00:45:16,175 --> 00:45:19,655
Speaker 5: the atmosphere. That moisture has literally moved from being trapped

824
00:45:19,655 --> 00:45:22,455
Speaker 5: inside the towel to being in that environment.

825
00:45:23,535 --> 00:45:23,735
Speaker 6: Yep.

826
00:45:24,855 --> 00:45:27,975
Speaker 5: And that's the concern. That's why we're encouraging people not

827
00:45:28,295 --> 00:45:32,175
Speaker 5: to actually dry laundry inside the house because that moisture

828
00:45:32,455 --> 00:45:35,495
Speaker 5: it escapes from the clothing or the fabric, but it

829
00:45:35,615 --> 00:45:37,495
Speaker 5: goes into the atmosphere, so then you've got to get

830
00:45:37,495 --> 00:45:40,815
Speaker 5: it out. So I do like the idea of some

831
00:45:41,175 --> 00:45:43,495
Speaker 5: form of heating. That's why heated tail rails are quite good.

832
00:45:44,415 --> 00:45:47,855
Speaker 5: That's why underfloor heating if it's set correctly, is good.

833
00:45:48,215 --> 00:45:52,215
Speaker 5: But ultimately I would always still have extraction. And then

834
00:45:53,175 --> 00:45:55,215
Speaker 5: the next part of that is making sure that the

835
00:45:55,375 --> 00:45:59,935
Speaker 5: extraction is located in the right place. And that's a

836
00:46:00,055 --> 00:46:04,015
Speaker 5: combination of where the steam's being created, where the outlet's

837
00:46:04,055 --> 00:46:07,335
Speaker 5: going to be, and where the airflow hums into the room.

838
00:46:08,255 --> 00:46:10,455
Speaker 5: So what you want is kind of the air that's

839
00:46:10,495 --> 00:46:12,735
Speaker 5: coming in let's say most of the time underneath the

840
00:46:12,815 --> 00:46:16,175
Speaker 5: door that it's on its way to the extraction, it

841
00:46:16,455 --> 00:46:19,975
Speaker 5: picks up the steam from wherever the steam's been created,

842
00:46:19,975 --> 00:46:23,575
Speaker 5: typically the shower. So if, for example, we were talking

843
00:46:23,575 --> 00:46:24,975
Speaker 5: about this the other day, let's say you've got a

844
00:46:25,015 --> 00:46:28,695
Speaker 5: bathroom that's three meters long, showers on one wall, and

845
00:46:28,895 --> 00:46:31,735
Speaker 5: the window is three meters away on the exterior wall,

846
00:46:32,215 --> 00:46:34,575
Speaker 5: and you put the fan close to where the window

847
00:46:34,735 --> 00:46:37,215
Speaker 5: is close to the exterior wall. So if you open

848
00:46:37,295 --> 00:46:40,135
Speaker 5: the window, air will be drawn in and will be

849
00:46:40,255 --> 00:46:43,375
Speaker 5: drawn to the extractor and it won't be grabbing the

850
00:46:43,455 --> 00:46:45,695
Speaker 5: moisture out of the shower which is three meters.

851
00:46:45,415 --> 00:46:46,655
Speaker 6: Away, yep.

852
00:46:47,255 --> 00:46:51,015
Speaker 5: Whereas if you had the door, you had ventilation under

853
00:46:51,055 --> 00:46:54,775
Speaker 5: the door and the window closed, then the air that's

854
00:46:54,855 --> 00:46:57,935
Speaker 5: being drawn in underneath the door will grab some of

855
00:46:58,015 --> 00:47:00,975
Speaker 5: that moisture from above the shower and drag it across

856
00:47:01,375 --> 00:47:05,455
Speaker 5: to the extraction point where the vent is. But again,

857
00:47:05,495 --> 00:47:08,015
Speaker 5: if you move the vair closer to there, but ensuring

858
00:47:08,095 --> 00:47:10,695
Speaker 5: that it's kind of it's there's a direct line of

859
00:47:10,775 --> 00:47:13,415
Speaker 5: paths let's say between where the air comes in and

860
00:47:13,495 --> 00:47:15,655
Speaker 5: where it's going out and it intersects with where the

861
00:47:15,695 --> 00:47:19,255
Speaker 5: moisture is sure, and that's the best layout I think.

862
00:47:20,295 --> 00:47:24,935
Speaker 10: So heat like heat lamps, and so they're not recommending those,

863
00:47:25,015 --> 00:47:26,975
Speaker 10: and then they're not not a recommending the heater.

864
00:47:27,535 --> 00:47:33,295
Speaker 5: So oh oh as in a wall heater. Yeah, I mean, look,

865
00:47:33,335 --> 00:47:36,095
Speaker 5: I can see. I suppose the thing with the wall

866
00:47:36,135 --> 00:47:39,975
Speaker 5: heater is like that's an easy retrofit, right, you know,

867
00:47:40,055 --> 00:47:42,015
Speaker 5: there will be an outlet somewhere that you can connect

868
00:47:42,055 --> 00:47:46,975
Speaker 5: to and you could add it. My preference would be

869
00:47:47,255 --> 00:47:50,455
Speaker 5: underfloor heating if you can do it, just just because

870
00:47:50,455 --> 00:47:53,055
Speaker 5: it gives you that ambient temperature and so on. And

871
00:47:53,215 --> 00:47:57,615
Speaker 5: then but I would I would always maintain extraction. And

872
00:47:57,735 --> 00:48:00,615
Speaker 5: again the thing that I've been introduced to recently is

873
00:48:00,655 --> 00:48:04,295
Speaker 5: this constant flow, right, so that because there's always a

874
00:48:04,375 --> 00:48:08,815
Speaker 5: certain amount of moisture inside a bathroom, particular inside houses anyway,

875
00:48:09,375 --> 00:48:11,575
Speaker 5: is if you had a fan in the bathroom that

876
00:48:11,855 --> 00:48:14,055
Speaker 5: ran all of the time at a very low rate,

877
00:48:14,815 --> 00:48:18,455
Speaker 5: so just encouraging airflow, which is good, and then it

878
00:48:18,655 --> 00:48:21,855
Speaker 5: senses when there's more humidity i e. Steam, and it

879
00:48:22,055 --> 00:48:26,295
Speaker 5: ramps up and goes to boost and extracts that, but

880
00:48:26,535 --> 00:48:29,735
Speaker 5: it will stay running until it detects that there's not

881
00:48:30,095 --> 00:48:32,175
Speaker 5: that much moisture in the room anymore. And again the

882
00:48:32,255 --> 00:48:35,695
Speaker 5: problem is often that you know, we're busy, we jump

883
00:48:35,735 --> 00:48:38,695
Speaker 5: into the shower, get tryed off, we brush our teeth,

884
00:48:38,775 --> 00:48:40,935
Speaker 5: turn off the fan, turn off the lights, and head out,

885
00:48:41,215 --> 00:48:43,215
Speaker 5: and there's still quite a lot of moisture left in

886
00:48:43,255 --> 00:48:43,655
Speaker 5: that room.

887
00:48:45,055 --> 00:48:46,095
Speaker 8: Yeah, the fan.

888
00:48:47,815 --> 00:48:48,415
Speaker 5: It helps as well.

889
00:48:48,895 --> 00:48:50,655
Speaker 6: Yeah, good stuff, you're there.

890
00:48:51,055 --> 00:48:53,655
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, we've got HIV in the rest of the house.

891
00:48:53,695 --> 00:48:55,695
Speaker 10: That makes sense. So we just have a best of

892
00:48:55,775 --> 00:48:58,095
Speaker 10: a stretch of being directly out rather than through the

893
00:48:58,175 --> 00:48:59,975
Speaker 10: sort of up and over blah blah blah.

894
00:49:00,655 --> 00:49:02,735
Speaker 5: That's the other thing too, is you know, you go

895
00:49:03,135 --> 00:49:05,735
Speaker 5: and crawl around inside of roof space and someone's got

896
00:49:05,815 --> 00:49:09,815
Speaker 5: a you know, a little bit adducting and it goes

897
00:49:09,935 --> 00:49:12,255
Speaker 5: up and down and around and it twists around this

898
00:49:12,415 --> 00:49:13,895
Speaker 5: bit and that bit and all the rest of it,

899
00:49:13,935 --> 00:49:15,695
Speaker 5: and then it's a little bit tricky to get it

900
00:49:15,775 --> 00:49:17,735
Speaker 5: out over the top plate into the feat so they

901
00:49:17,815 --> 00:49:20,135
Speaker 5: squeeze it down a little bit. You know, all of

902
00:49:20,215 --> 00:49:24,055
Speaker 5: these things are going to impede the flow. So short,

903
00:49:24,415 --> 00:49:26,775
Speaker 5: direct and as big as possible is the key.

904
00:49:27,615 --> 00:49:30,015
Speaker 10: Again, what about, Pete. Lamps with that extract the fan also,

905
00:49:30,215 --> 00:49:30,975
Speaker 10: we'll not worry about it.

906
00:49:32,175 --> 00:49:35,335
Speaker 5: Look, I mean they're really effective in the sense that

907
00:49:35,415 --> 00:49:37,095
Speaker 5: when you turn them on you stand underneath it. You

908
00:49:37,175 --> 00:49:40,215
Speaker 5: feel like a rotisserie chicken at the at the local takeaway, right,

909
00:49:41,295 --> 00:49:46,695
Speaker 5: But in general, I guess I've always thought that that

910
00:49:46,935 --> 00:49:50,175
Speaker 5: combination is Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure it works,

911
00:49:50,215 --> 00:49:52,135
Speaker 5: but I don't know if I'm a huge fan.

912
00:49:52,255 --> 00:49:54,895
Speaker 10: Let's say, I think we'll just go for an extractor

913
00:49:54,975 --> 00:49:59,655
Speaker 10: fan and then the tiles and then the heat of

914
00:49:59,695 --> 00:50:01,335
Speaker 10: tear rail. So thanks very much for advice.

915
00:50:01,375 --> 00:50:04,815
Speaker 5: Pleasure. Hey, good luck with the reno's Thanks mate, all

916
00:50:04,975 --> 00:50:09,215
Speaker 5: this Yeah, I know, I know, but hey, it'll be beautiful.

917
00:50:09,255 --> 00:50:12,175
Speaker 5: I'm sure, all right, buddy, take care of all of this.

918
00:50:16,335 --> 00:50:16,855
Speaker 9: Extraction.

919
00:50:17,695 --> 00:50:20,335
Speaker 5: Good morning, Pete. Read the extraction. I have an apparent

920
00:50:20,495 --> 00:50:23,975
Speaker 5: where I can only extract below the floor to exit.

921
00:50:24,295 --> 00:50:30,455
Speaker 5: Is there a more powerful extraction to go from? I

922
00:50:30,535 --> 00:50:32,295
Speaker 5: think you might need to explain that a little bit better.

923
00:50:32,335 --> 00:50:36,135
Speaker 5: If you can only extract down, then you're fighting physics. Basically,

924
00:50:37,415 --> 00:50:40,095
Speaker 5: hottier wants to rise, and you want to then suck

925
00:50:40,255 --> 00:50:44,735
Speaker 5: hottier down and out. It's going to be difficult. It's

926
00:50:44,815 --> 00:50:47,655
Speaker 5: going to be less effective than sort of capturing it

927
00:50:47,775 --> 00:50:50,855
Speaker 5: where it's naturally going to go, which is up. So

928
00:50:51,015 --> 00:50:53,335
Speaker 5: that is going to be a challenge. Getting some great

929
00:50:53,495 --> 00:50:57,935
Speaker 5: questions for Minister Chris Penk who's going to join us shortly,

930
00:50:58,695 --> 00:51:01,935
Speaker 5: happy to take more of those, and I promise as

931
00:51:02,015 --> 00:51:06,015
Speaker 5: best I possibly can that I won't dominate the hour

932
00:51:06,095 --> 00:51:08,335
Speaker 5: that we have with him by asking my questions. I'll

933
00:51:08,375 --> 00:51:10,455
Speaker 5: try and hand over to you. So thank you very

934
00:51:10,535 --> 00:51:11,775
Speaker 5: much for sending those texts through.

935
00:51:11,855 --> 00:51:15,095
Speaker 1: Right now viewing of the house extorting the garden, asked

936
00:51:15,135 --> 00:51:18,935
Speaker 1: feet for a hand the resident builder with Feta wolfcab call.

937
00:51:18,895 --> 00:51:23,175
Speaker 5: Oh eight hundred eighty us dogs V. If you're into DIY,

938
00:51:23,495 --> 00:51:25,255
Speaker 5: and you're bound to be because you're listening to me

939
00:51:25,415 --> 00:51:28,095
Speaker 5: right now, you need to know about the DIY revolution

940
00:51:28,215 --> 00:51:31,215
Speaker 5: that's been almost fifty years in the making. It's you

941
00:51:31,455 --> 00:51:36,735
Speaker 5: do It kitchens that uduit the DIY kitchen specialists that

942
00:51:36,895 --> 00:51:41,255
Speaker 5: offer incredibly affordable, superior quality kitchens that are proudly key

943
00:51:41,295 --> 00:51:44,615
Speaker 5: we made. The secret is you do Its unique U

944
00:51:44,855 --> 00:51:49,055
Speaker 5: sizet system that lets you customize cabinet sizes at no

945
00:51:49,175 --> 00:51:52,415
Speaker 5: extra cost with no impact on delivery. Times with ki

946
00:51:52,615 --> 00:51:55,895
Speaker 5: diy experts only an email away to give advice. It

947
00:51:56,055 --> 00:51:58,815
Speaker 5: lets you design your kitchen yourself, so you get exactly

948
00:51:58,895 --> 00:52:01,455
Speaker 5: what you want, choosing from over thirty five color and

949
00:52:01,615 --> 00:52:04,895
Speaker 5: finish options. Once you've made your choices, click send and

950
00:52:05,015 --> 00:52:08,375
Speaker 5: then in just seven days, everything you need is dispatched

951
00:52:08,495 --> 00:52:13,175
Speaker 5: directly to you. Installations easy with excellent instructions. Get the

952
00:52:13,255 --> 00:52:16,335
Speaker 5: kitchen you want, design it yourself. Saved thousands. That's the key.

953
00:52:16,415 --> 00:52:19,215
Speaker 5: We ingenuity, I love it, that's you do it. That's

954
00:52:19,375 --> 00:52:22,495
Speaker 5: U d U, I T kitchens that do it for you.

955
00:52:22,695 --> 00:52:25,575
Speaker 5: Check it out, you do it, dot co, dot nzo, meat.

956
00:52:25,455 --> 00:52:28,815
Speaker 1: It twice, God once, but maybe called Pete first for

957
00:52:28,975 --> 00:52:31,735
Speaker 1: you all get the resident builder news Talk said be.

958
00:52:32,335 --> 00:52:34,375
Speaker 5: Your news Talk said be and a very good morning

959
00:52:34,415 --> 00:52:34,535
Speaker 5: to you.

960
00:52:34,695 --> 00:52:35,255
Speaker 6: B How are you.

961
00:52:36,935 --> 00:52:37,175
Speaker 11: Hello?

962
00:52:37,415 --> 00:52:38,655
Speaker 5: How are you good morning?

963
00:52:39,695 --> 00:52:39,935
Speaker 10: Quick?

964
00:52:40,775 --> 00:52:40,975
Speaker 4: Yees?

965
00:52:41,255 --> 00:52:46,295
Speaker 11: Now question, we brought a house three years ago. Now

966
00:52:46,735 --> 00:52:50,215
Speaker 11: we based it off the builders report that was done

967
00:52:51,975 --> 00:52:56,615
Speaker 11: and everything well basically everything in fine, but hey, we

968
00:52:56,775 --> 00:53:02,375
Speaker 11: opened up a can of wombs. Now the problem we

969
00:53:02,575 --> 00:53:07,135
Speaker 11: found for her, yeah, the house and I would put

970
00:53:07,175 --> 00:53:09,215
Speaker 11: it down to the aging of the house and the

971
00:53:09,295 --> 00:53:12,575
Speaker 11: type of wood that at that time it was uncreated

972
00:53:12,695 --> 00:53:20,495
Speaker 11: wood back in the seventies. Now we've had the home imigated. Yes,

973
00:53:20,575 --> 00:53:23,055
Speaker 11: so they came in and that costs a bit of

974
00:53:23,095 --> 00:53:23,575
Speaker 11: an arm.

975
00:53:23,535 --> 00:53:26,735
Speaker 3: And a leg to do. Now there are some.

976
00:53:28,855 --> 00:53:33,575
Speaker 11: With a board that needs replacing. Now, look, I would

977
00:53:33,855 --> 00:53:38,055
Speaker 11: like to know, would pay to replace all the whole

978
00:53:38,215 --> 00:53:41,935
Speaker 11: house of the weatherboards or just the ones that need

979
00:53:42,215 --> 00:53:42,735
Speaker 11: to be done.

980
00:53:43,015 --> 00:53:43,055
Speaker 6: No.

981
00:53:43,455 --> 00:53:45,935
Speaker 5: Look, I think if you've got some boards that show

982
00:53:46,215 --> 00:53:50,615
Speaker 5: serious decay due to bora, replace those, treat the rest

983
00:53:50,695 --> 00:53:53,415
Speaker 5: of it. And we're getting into that time of year

984
00:53:53,455 --> 00:53:55,095
Speaker 5: when now is a really good time to do it.

985
00:53:55,575 --> 00:53:58,655
Speaker 5: But no, I know that bora has an impact, but

986
00:53:58,735 --> 00:54:01,775
Speaker 5: it's actually really rare to see buildings, you know, to

987
00:54:01,895 --> 00:54:05,775
Speaker 5: a state of collapse due to bora infestation. So if

988
00:54:05,775 --> 00:54:08,535
Speaker 5: it's rotten, take it out, treat the rest. But no,

989
00:54:08,735 --> 00:54:11,095
Speaker 5: I wouldn't go to starting to think, gosh, I've got

990
00:54:11,135 --> 00:54:16,695
Speaker 5: to take all my weatherboards off. Okayed, sort of a

991
00:54:16,775 --> 00:54:19,895
Speaker 5: considered approach will work all the very best. You be,

992
00:54:20,335 --> 00:54:23,215
Speaker 5: you take care you all right. I think getting some

993
00:54:23,375 --> 00:54:28,135
Speaker 5: great texts coming in for the minister. I think we're

994
00:54:29,135 --> 00:54:33,535
Speaker 5: easily going to fill the time. I mean, good stuff around.

995
00:54:33,615 --> 00:54:35,735
Speaker 5: You know what happens if the builder goes into liquidation,

996
00:54:35,975 --> 00:54:40,935
Speaker 5: how might a homeowner get redress if that's the case.

997
00:54:41,935 --> 00:54:44,255
Speaker 5: So lots to talk about, will do that in just

998
00:54:44,335 --> 00:54:46,495
Speaker 5: a moment, looking forward to that. A quick catch up

999
00:54:46,575 --> 00:54:48,495
Speaker 5: as well. A friend of the show in a sense.

1000
00:54:48,575 --> 00:54:50,375
Speaker 5: Mike Old's greetings sir.

1001
00:54:50,815 --> 00:54:51,935
Speaker 8: Your morning, feete. How are you?

1002
00:54:52,135 --> 00:54:54,655
Speaker 5: Yeah, very well. So you're back from New Zealand Institute

1003
00:54:54,655 --> 00:54:56,335
Speaker 5: of Building Surveys conferences today.

1004
00:54:57,095 --> 00:55:00,135
Speaker 8: Yeah, lovely day down there in christ and catching up

1005
00:55:00,175 --> 00:55:04,055
Speaker 8: with some of the leading professionals in the industry.

1006
00:55:04,735 --> 00:55:06,775
Speaker 5: Who have had a number of open is about all

1007
00:55:06,815 --> 00:55:09,015
Speaker 5: of the various changes that are proposed. We can discuss

1008
00:55:09,095 --> 00:55:10,855
Speaker 5: that on another day, but what we wanted to talk

1009
00:55:10,895 --> 00:55:14,615
Speaker 5: about this morning is just in terms of recognizing skill

1010
00:55:15,535 --> 00:55:18,895
Speaker 5: and craft and professionalism within the industry.

1011
00:55:19,775 --> 00:55:19,975
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1012
00:55:20,055 --> 00:55:25,775
Speaker 8: Absolutely, And one of the key parts of any business

1013
00:55:26,095 --> 00:55:29,695
Speaker 8: is the right people doing the right job. And when

1014
00:55:29,775 --> 00:55:33,975
Speaker 8: we look at our so usual manufacturing plaster of materials

1015
00:55:34,015 --> 00:55:36,855
Speaker 8: and products, we've got that sorted. But then in terms

1016
00:55:36,895 --> 00:55:40,575
Speaker 8: of the application all the contracts, in terms of extental

1017
00:55:40,615 --> 00:55:45,655
Speaker 8: plas during albp so a license building professionals, they have

1018
00:55:46,295 --> 00:55:50,175
Speaker 8: completed trade certificates. We have a proprietary plaster clotting standard,

1019
00:55:50,815 --> 00:55:54,415
Speaker 8: so they're competent to supply and install the systems in

1020
00:55:54,495 --> 00:55:57,735
Speaker 8: accordance with the specifications provided by the architect. So we

1021
00:55:57,895 --> 00:56:01,815
Speaker 8: can we go through a number of processes with those

1022
00:56:01,895 --> 00:56:06,695
Speaker 8: contractors to ensure that they understand the products systems that

1023
00:56:06,735 --> 00:56:10,935
Speaker 8: have been specified. But equally, their knowledge and tenure in

1024
00:56:11,095 --> 00:56:18,295
Speaker 8: terms of applying plaster codings is absolutely superb and people

1025
00:56:18,415 --> 00:56:22,135
Speaker 8: have the confidence that the systems that they've been they've

1026
00:56:22,135 --> 00:56:25,815
Speaker 8: had installed on their properties will perform. Really really important

1027
00:56:25,935 --> 00:56:31,375
Speaker 8: aspect of the supply and installation of plaster cladding is

1028
00:56:31,415 --> 00:56:35,935
Speaker 8: we're not just plaster. The contracts are now supplying and

1029
00:56:36,015 --> 00:56:40,495
Speaker 8: installing the substrate over a cavity, all the flashing suites

1030
00:56:41,895 --> 00:56:45,815
Speaker 8: connecting with other sub trades. It's a very complex solution

1031
00:56:47,055 --> 00:56:51,135
Speaker 8: and requires competent professionals to undertake and complete those works

1032
00:56:51,935 --> 00:56:53,815
Speaker 8: to protect people's properties.

1033
00:56:53,975 --> 00:56:57,815
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and I think it's a real insight into in

1034
00:56:57,975 --> 00:57:02,215
Speaker 5: general across the sector. In terms of building, we're starting

1035
00:57:02,295 --> 00:57:04,495
Speaker 5: to think about lots of things as systems. Right, So

1036
00:57:04,735 --> 00:57:08,575
Speaker 5: rather than I'm doing this little part, in fact, I'm

1037
00:57:08,655 --> 00:57:12,255
Speaker 5: putting together a series of independent elements to create a system.

1038
00:57:12,615 --> 00:57:14,295
Speaker 5: And ideally you want to be doing it from the

1039
00:57:14,335 --> 00:57:16,415
Speaker 5: beginning to the end, and that's what we're seeing in

1040
00:57:16,535 --> 00:57:20,015
Speaker 5: terms of what Razine Construction do. Very much, so pete,

1041
00:57:20,175 --> 00:57:22,855
Speaker 5: very much so absolutely. Hey folks to find out more,

1042
00:57:22,935 --> 00:57:27,015
Speaker 5: check it out online. It's Razineconstruction dot co dot NZ. Mike,

1043
00:57:27,135 --> 00:57:29,375
Speaker 5: as always, thanks very much for joining the show this morning.

1044
00:57:29,855 --> 00:57:30,295
Speaker 8: You're welcome.

1045
00:57:30,615 --> 00:57:33,295
Speaker 5: All the best, Take care and yeah, the New Zealand

1046
00:57:33,615 --> 00:57:37,815
Speaker 5: Building Surveys ends at IBS conference was on last couple

1047
00:57:37,855 --> 00:57:39,855
Speaker 5: of days. Normally I would be there but had some

1048
00:57:39,975 --> 00:57:44,095
Speaker 5: other commitments, including actually hosting a quiz night the other night.

1049
00:57:44,335 --> 00:57:47,575
Speaker 5: So I think I did. Okay, I'm not the funniest

1050
00:57:47,615 --> 00:57:50,535
Speaker 5: person in the world, but anyway, we got through it

1051
00:57:50,615 --> 00:57:53,095
Speaker 5: and we made some money and that's awesome. Rightio, we'll

1052
00:57:53,095 --> 00:57:55,135
Speaker 5: take a break. We'll be back in a moment eight

1053
00:57:55,255 --> 00:57:58,015
Speaker 5: hundred and eight nine two ninety two. If you've got

1054
00:57:58,095 --> 00:58:02,135
Speaker 5: some questions for Chris Penk the Minister, he'll join me shortly.

1055
00:58:02,215 --> 00:58:05,575
Speaker 5: Looking forward to that, and again I promise you I

1056
00:58:05,695 --> 00:58:08,895
Speaker 5: won't try answer or ask every single question that I've got.

1057
00:58:08,935 --> 00:58:10,695
Speaker 5: I'm going to hand it over to you. Text through

1058
00:58:10,775 --> 00:58:13,255
Speaker 5: your questions nine to nine two back in.

1059
00:58:13,255 --> 00:58:15,815
Speaker 1: The mo Whether you're paty with ceiling, fixing with fans,

1060
00:58:16,095 --> 00:58:18,175
Speaker 1: or wondering how to fix that hole in the wall.

1061
00:58:18,255 --> 00:58:23,095
Speaker 1: Give Peter wolf gavicle on eight the resident builder on.

1062
00:58:24,975 --> 00:58:27,935
Speaker 5: Righty oh, it is my great pleasure to welcome into

1063
00:58:28,015 --> 00:58:31,895
Speaker 5: the studio Chris Penk, who is of course the Minister

1064
00:58:32,095 --> 00:58:37,455
Speaker 5: for Building and Construction. Very good morning, welcome Chris. Yeah,

1065
00:58:37,535 --> 00:58:40,175
Speaker 5: really nice to be here as well, and again thank

1066
00:58:40,255 --> 00:58:44,175
Speaker 5: you for making yourself available. I know you were out

1067
00:58:44,215 --> 00:58:47,175
Speaker 5: at the Warriors last night, so maybe not the result

1068
00:58:47,215 --> 00:58:50,455
Speaker 5: we were hoping for, but we'll leave that alone. So

1069
00:58:50,615 --> 00:58:53,055
Speaker 5: many things that we can talk about, but let's start

1070
00:58:53,095 --> 00:58:57,215
Speaker 5: with possibly the most recent announcement around a proposed change

1071
00:58:57,295 --> 00:59:02,655
Speaker 5: from joint and several liability to proportional liability. The background

1072
00:59:02,735 --> 00:59:05,375
Speaker 5: seems to be that it's a way to unlock the

1073
00:59:05,535 --> 00:59:10,175
Speaker 5: consenting system. We want that to be a little bit quicker, potentially,

1074
00:59:10,255 --> 00:59:13,575
Speaker 5: do we want counsel to be less risk averse? Is

1075
00:59:13,655 --> 00:59:14,775
Speaker 5: that part of the motivation.

1076
00:59:15,215 --> 00:59:20,855
Speaker 9: We want appropriate aversion and awareness. But there's certainly the

1077
00:59:20,935 --> 00:59:22,535
Speaker 9: thing that council officers have said to me in the

1078
00:59:22,615 --> 00:59:25,055
Speaker 9: last eighteen months when I've talked about trying to get

1079
00:59:25,095 --> 00:59:27,855
Speaker 9: things to move a bit more quickly and productively they say, well,

1080
00:59:27,895 --> 00:59:29,695
Speaker 9: that's fine, Chris, but you've got to understand, we've got

1081
00:59:29,775 --> 00:59:31,655
Speaker 9: all the risks. We've got up to one hundred percent

1082
00:59:31,695 --> 00:59:34,015
Speaker 9: of the cost of a defect taking place in an

1083
00:59:34,095 --> 00:59:36,855
Speaker 9: individual property or heaven forbid, at a system wide level,

1084
00:59:37,335 --> 00:59:40,935
Speaker 9: you know, West case scenario, lequy buildings. And their point is, well,

1085
00:59:41,175 --> 00:59:44,055
Speaker 9: we've got all that risk and that burden, so you know,

1086
00:59:44,175 --> 00:59:46,575
Speaker 9: naturally we have to dot every iron and cross every

1087
00:59:46,655 --> 00:59:48,255
Speaker 9: t and of course we want them to be careful

1088
00:59:48,335 --> 00:59:50,815
Speaker 9: to answer a question, but it seems a fair and

1089
00:59:50,975 --> 00:59:54,335
Speaker 9: proportionate level of responsibility for them, and of course that

1090
00:59:54,455 --> 00:59:56,975
Speaker 9: means all of us as ratepayers is appropriate. And of

1091
00:59:57,055 --> 01:00:00,215
Speaker 9: course the quid pro quo is that puts more responsibility

1092
01:00:00,255 --> 01:00:02,255
Speaker 9: on those doing the work, and as long as we

1093
01:00:02,295 --> 01:00:04,055
Speaker 9: can make sure that we can hold them accountable, and

1094
01:00:04,135 --> 01:00:05,575
Speaker 9: of course there's a lot of devil in that detail,

1095
01:00:05,615 --> 01:00:08,175
Speaker 9: which I'm sure we'll get to, then of course that

1096
01:00:08,495 --> 01:00:10,895
Speaker 9: will be better for all concerned because it would actually

1097
01:00:10,935 --> 01:00:12,575
Speaker 9: make it less likely that there are effects in the

1098
01:00:12,615 --> 01:00:13,095
Speaker 9: first place.

1099
01:00:13,415 --> 01:00:16,655
Speaker 5: Okay, so at the moment counts, you know, we often

1100
01:00:16,695 --> 01:00:19,095
Speaker 5: talk about this little last man standing, right, the councils

1101
01:00:19,135 --> 01:00:22,055
Speaker 5: can't disappear everyone else goes, they end up paying out

1102
01:00:22,135 --> 01:00:26,335
Speaker 5: on a leaky building claim. So what would proportional liability

1103
01:00:26,375 --> 01:00:28,495
Speaker 5: look like? And is it right? The discussion at the

1104
01:00:28,535 --> 01:00:30,495
Speaker 5: moment seems to be that council would be limited to

1105
01:00:30,575 --> 01:00:33,415
Speaker 5: twenty percent. Is that where we're going to land?

1106
01:00:33,495 --> 01:00:35,335
Speaker 9: Yeah, only part of the discussion was around whether you

1107
01:00:35,415 --> 01:00:39,455
Speaker 9: have a particular percentage cap, and I heard your excellent guest,

1108
01:00:39,575 --> 01:00:42,095
Speaker 9: mister Mike Thornton speaking last week from a legal perspective

1109
01:00:42,135 --> 01:00:46,095
Speaker 9: about twenty percent being one starting point that you could use.

1110
01:00:47,095 --> 01:00:50,495
Speaker 9: My thought is, however, it's actually better to have a

1111
01:00:51,175 --> 01:00:55,575
Speaker 9: purer kind of conception of proportionate liability where you basically say, well,

1112
01:00:55,735 --> 01:00:58,095
Speaker 9: to the extent that the council should be in the gun, yes,

1113
01:00:58,135 --> 01:00:59,855
Speaker 9: And of course the reason that they would be involved

1114
01:00:59,895 --> 01:01:02,055
Speaker 9: at all is they've provided a building consent in the

1115
01:01:02,095 --> 01:01:05,095
Speaker 9: first instance, to say that the work complies with the

1116
01:01:05,135 --> 01:01:08,135
Speaker 9: building Code acted inspections to see that it's taking place

1117
01:01:08,175 --> 01:01:10,255
Speaker 9: in accordance with that consent, and you'll find their code

1118
01:01:10,295 --> 01:01:14,175
Speaker 9: compliance certificate at the end. So it's right for them

1119
01:01:14,215 --> 01:01:16,935
Speaker 9: to have some sort of responsibility, but it might vary

1120
01:01:17,255 --> 01:01:20,215
Speaker 9: case by case according to the extent to which they

1121
01:01:20,255 --> 01:01:23,655
Speaker 9: should be held accountable and therefore the rate payer should pay.

1122
01:01:24,095 --> 01:01:26,655
Speaker 9: And the circumstance of that overseas at the moment is

1123
01:01:26,695 --> 01:01:29,455
Speaker 9: determining courts. Now, the minute you set foot near a court,

1124
01:01:29,495 --> 01:01:31,855
Speaker 9: of course, there's expense and time and uncertainty, so that's

1125
01:01:31,935 --> 01:01:34,775
Speaker 9: not necessarily great either. But you know, in the things

1126
01:01:34,855 --> 01:01:36,855
Speaker 9: we can talk about as a way perhaps of getting

1127
01:01:36,975 --> 01:01:38,495
Speaker 9: around that problem as well if you're interested.

1128
01:01:38,855 --> 01:01:41,575
Speaker 5: So the other thing then is then determining the proportion.

1129
01:01:41,975 --> 01:01:43,975
Speaker 5: So how might that work and who might.

1130
01:01:44,015 --> 01:01:47,615
Speaker 9: Do that work in terms of determining who's yeah, well,

1131
01:01:47,655 --> 01:01:50,735
Speaker 9: I suppose that a specialist technical level building surveyors might

1132
01:01:50,775 --> 01:01:56,815
Speaker 9: be one professional occupation that would be well qualified to

1133
01:01:56,895 --> 01:02:00,415
Speaker 9: provide that advice. In Australia they go to courts, although

1134
01:02:00,495 --> 01:02:04,975
Speaker 9: they can also, you know, look at other places to

1135
01:02:05,015 --> 01:02:07,455
Speaker 9: go like tribunals. Next. Some of the specific advice that

1136
01:02:07,455 --> 01:02:09,135
Speaker 9: I got earlier in the year when looking at this

1137
01:02:09,415 --> 01:02:11,895
Speaker 9: was from a judge in one of the Australian states,

1138
01:02:12,055 --> 01:02:14,495
Speaker 9: and her point was you need broad enough language in

1139
01:02:14,535 --> 01:02:17,615
Speaker 9: the way that you draft the legislation to say, well, actually,

1140
01:02:17,815 --> 01:02:20,535
Speaker 9: however it's determined or whoever it determines it, So it

1141
01:02:20,615 --> 01:02:22,255
Speaker 9: might be for example, in New Zealand that we need

1142
01:02:22,295 --> 01:02:25,815
Speaker 9: a specialist tribunal, I mean especially motor vehicle disputes tribunal,

1143
01:02:26,095 --> 01:02:29,375
Speaker 9: and yet for quite a technical subject such as building

1144
01:02:29,415 --> 01:02:32,495
Speaker 9: and construction, and you're off to the district court, or

1145
01:02:32,775 --> 01:02:34,535
Speaker 9: if you've got a claim, if you're lucky enough to

1146
01:02:34,535 --> 01:02:36,615
Speaker 9: have your claim being with less than you know, thirty

1147
01:02:36,735 --> 01:02:38,855
Speaker 9: or sixty thousand or whatever, it's your shoulders. These days

1148
01:02:38,855 --> 01:02:41,415
Speaker 9: it's the dispute tribunal. So you know, I think a

1149
01:02:41,455 --> 01:02:45,375
Speaker 9: lot of times people walk away because they simply don't

1150
01:02:45,415 --> 01:02:48,455
Speaker 9: have the resources to fight something in a court system

1151
01:02:48,495 --> 01:02:50,055
Speaker 9: per se. So you know, there are ways that we

1152
01:02:50,135 --> 01:02:52,535
Speaker 9: can determine these things that are not necessarily currently are

1153
01:02:52,615 --> 01:02:56,055
Speaker 9: now our system at the moment, I think probably is

1154
01:02:56,135 --> 01:02:58,255
Speaker 9: not particularly fair to those who don't have the resources

1155
01:02:58,295 --> 01:03:01,415
Speaker 9: to fight these things. And then of course again councils

1156
01:03:01,455 --> 01:03:03,095
Speaker 9: because they can't walk away, so they end up i

1157
01:03:03,135 --> 01:03:06,295
Speaker 9: think oftentimes settling with ratepayer money that which they didn't

1158
01:03:06,375 --> 01:03:09,175
Speaker 9: need to fully be engaged with. You have no choice

1159
01:03:09,215 --> 01:03:10,855
Speaker 9: back to do the deal and move on.

1160
01:03:11,095 --> 01:03:13,335
Speaker 5: And that's the nature of joint in several liability, isn't

1161
01:03:13,335 --> 01:03:13,655
Speaker 5: it right?

1162
01:03:13,815 --> 01:03:14,015
Speaker 8: Yep?

1163
01:03:14,735 --> 01:03:17,135
Speaker 5: So if this is sort of like a flow chart thing,

1164
01:03:17,215 --> 01:03:19,135
Speaker 5: isn't it. So you open door A and then you

1165
01:03:19,215 --> 01:03:21,855
Speaker 5: get to door B, and then door B has C

1166
01:03:22,015 --> 01:03:23,735
Speaker 5: and D and so on and so forth. So let's

1167
01:03:23,775 --> 01:03:27,815
Speaker 5: imagine a scenario where some building work is undertaken, there

1168
01:03:28,015 --> 01:03:32,695
Speaker 5: is a defect, and then the homeowner says, look, it's

1169
01:03:32,695 --> 01:03:34,575
Speaker 5: going to cost me one hundred grand to fix this,

1170
01:03:34,855 --> 01:03:38,375
Speaker 5: and I need to be able to determine who's responsible.

1171
01:03:38,655 --> 01:03:41,375
Speaker 5: Counsel might be responsible for twenty percent of it. Then

1172
01:03:41,455 --> 01:03:43,935
Speaker 5: they've got a builder who they employed, let's say five

1173
01:03:44,015 --> 01:03:46,295
Speaker 5: years ago as the main contractor. They're the LBP for

1174
01:03:46,375 --> 01:03:48,935
Speaker 5: the job. How are they going to be able to

1175
01:03:49,055 --> 01:03:51,815
Speaker 5: get that person to contribute to the cost of the

1176
01:03:51,895 --> 01:03:55,415
Speaker 5: repairs when possibly they might not have the resources, They

1177
01:03:55,535 --> 01:03:59,615
Speaker 5: may not have the right insurance. Insurance seems to be

1178
01:03:59,735 --> 01:04:03,735
Speaker 5: the big gap at the moment in terms of realistically

1179
01:04:03,935 --> 01:04:07,575
Speaker 5: for a contractor to have the resources to be able

1180
01:04:07,615 --> 01:04:10,415
Speaker 5: to pay out claims for ten years. Even if you're

1181
01:04:10,415 --> 01:04:12,615
Speaker 5: a relatively small builder, maybe you build two or three

1182
01:04:12,655 --> 01:04:17,495
Speaker 5: houses a year, your exposure could be significant. You're not

1183
01:04:17,615 --> 01:04:20,935
Speaker 5: going to have the resources yourself to cover that. To

1184
01:04:21,015 --> 01:04:24,335
Speaker 5: the best of my knowledge, there is one insurer available

1185
01:04:24,375 --> 01:04:27,575
Speaker 5: in New Zealand at the moment, and they have been

1186
01:04:27,655 --> 01:04:31,535
Speaker 5: quite public in stating we are very selective about who

1187
01:04:31,615 --> 01:04:34,735
Speaker 5: we offer insurance to. We've got quite a high threshold,

1188
01:04:34,815 --> 01:04:37,735
Speaker 5: so they will often employ building surveys to determine whether

1189
01:04:38,135 --> 01:04:41,455
Speaker 5: this contractor is working to a suitable standard that makes

1190
01:04:41,535 --> 01:04:46,735
Speaker 5: it worthwhile. But we're probably talking several thousand contractors who

1191
01:04:46,855 --> 01:04:50,895
Speaker 5: operate without insurance are unlikely to qualify for insurance, but

1192
01:04:50,975 --> 01:04:53,615
Speaker 5: we'll still be doing restricted building work. How do you

1193
01:04:53,735 --> 01:04:54,415
Speaker 5: cover those people?

1194
01:04:54,495 --> 01:04:57,695
Speaker 9: For the consumer, well, for the consumer who needs to

1195
01:04:57,775 --> 01:05:01,495
Speaker 9: be protected against those that are not qualified, registered, experience

1196
01:05:01,735 --> 01:05:04,095
Speaker 9: or solvent. And of course your points the right one,

1197
01:05:04,135 --> 01:05:06,055
Speaker 9: which is that we don't want what we call an

1198
01:05:06,135 --> 01:05:09,535
Speaker 9: en chair when all going through the doors that you've

1199
01:05:09,575 --> 01:05:13,415
Speaker 9: mentioned my metaphors looking to who might be responsible. It

1200
01:05:13,535 --> 01:05:16,135
Speaker 9: might be this fellow over here, but he or she

1201
01:05:16,335 --> 01:05:19,575
Speaker 9: is not prepared or willing or able to come to

1202
01:05:19,655 --> 01:05:21,655
Speaker 9: the party in terms of what they've been determined to

1203
01:05:21,815 --> 01:05:24,535
Speaker 9: be responsible for. So you then say, well, actually is

1204
01:05:24,655 --> 01:05:27,095
Speaker 9: someone who could stand behind them and provide that assurance,

1205
01:05:27,375 --> 01:05:30,375
Speaker 9: And yes, insurance is one of those. And there are

1206
01:05:30,415 --> 01:05:33,935
Speaker 9: guarantees and other systems and warranties that we exist already

1207
01:05:34,095 --> 01:05:36,095
Speaker 9: in the private market and which we could look to

1208
01:05:36,135 --> 01:05:38,815
Speaker 9: make complexory. And I'm certainly very open minded about the

1209
01:05:38,855 --> 01:05:41,535
Speaker 9: possibility of doing that, but I actually think it's worth

1210
01:05:41,535 --> 01:05:43,935
Speaker 9: considering what the problem definition is. If we've got some

1211
01:05:44,455 --> 01:05:47,895
Speaker 9: practitioners out there who can't satisfy a private insurer they

1212
01:05:47,935 --> 01:05:49,975
Speaker 9: can do the work in a diligent fashion that's not

1213
01:05:50,055 --> 01:05:52,775
Speaker 9: going to result in undue risk to the insurer and

1214
01:05:52,855 --> 01:05:56,335
Speaker 9: their underwriters, then maybe they shouldn't be doing restricted building work.

1215
01:05:56,895 --> 01:05:59,295
Speaker 9: I know that might sound like blasphemy to say there

1216
01:05:59,335 --> 01:06:01,095
Speaker 9: should be some whom we don't want to be doing

1217
01:06:01,135 --> 01:06:05,095
Speaker 9: the work, or at least not accept under supervision, But actually,

1218
01:06:05,135 --> 01:06:07,655
Speaker 9: maybe if that's the answer to our quality problems that

1219
01:06:07,735 --> 01:06:09,655
Speaker 9: we do have, and we're all aware that there is

1220
01:06:09,775 --> 01:06:12,655
Speaker 9: at least a proportion and a percentage small, yes it's

1221
01:06:12,655 --> 01:06:15,175
Speaker 9: a minority, but yeah, but it's there. Actually your fat

1222
01:06:15,215 --> 01:06:18,255
Speaker 9: cleans up the landscape in terms of those who shouldn't

1223
01:06:18,255 --> 01:06:20,615
Speaker 9: be trusted to do the work, then I don't consider

1224
01:06:20,695 --> 01:06:21,215
Speaker 9: that a bad thing.

1225
01:06:21,535 --> 01:06:23,455
Speaker 5: No, And look, I'm not opposed to that either, And

1226
01:06:23,535 --> 01:06:26,255
Speaker 5: I think professionals within the sector are going you know,

1227
01:06:26,415 --> 01:06:30,655
Speaker 5: if we've got people operating who potentially are not as

1228
01:06:30,735 --> 01:06:33,295
Speaker 5: skilled or not as competent, but they're able to do

1229
01:06:33,415 --> 01:06:38,095
Speaker 5: this work. Then if people consumers are looking to, hey,

1230
01:06:38,175 --> 01:06:41,575
Speaker 5: I want to employ a contractor who is eligible for insurance,

1231
01:06:41,935 --> 01:06:44,415
Speaker 5: and I'm not going to employ a contractor who isn't

1232
01:06:44,535 --> 01:06:47,535
Speaker 5: because the standard of their work is being proven or

1233
01:06:47,615 --> 01:06:49,455
Speaker 5: shown to be less than optimal.

1234
01:06:49,855 --> 01:06:52,215
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, that's right, and that's you know, that's we've

1235
01:06:52,215 --> 01:06:54,975
Speaker 9: talked about that in the case of insurance, but certainly

1236
01:06:55,055 --> 01:06:58,735
Speaker 9: with the schemes that certified builders and martional builders currently run,

1237
01:06:59,615 --> 01:07:03,175
Speaker 9: it seems to me it's anecdotal, but you never know

1238
01:07:03,335 --> 01:07:05,735
Speaker 9: quite exactly how these things play out until you make it,

1239
01:07:05,895 --> 01:07:08,775
Speaker 9: you know, and the law and acdotally at least, let's

1240
01:07:08,815 --> 01:07:11,175
Speaker 9: just take us, for the sake of argument, that half

1241
01:07:11,215 --> 01:07:13,575
Speaker 9: of those who don't currently have that kind of protection

1242
01:07:14,175 --> 01:07:17,975
Speaker 9: for their respective clients might be able to get it

1243
01:07:18,015 --> 01:07:19,975
Speaker 9: if only they applied for it, and the other half wouldn't.

1244
01:07:20,055 --> 01:07:21,775
Speaker 9: And I mean, maybe that's the world we need to live,

1245
01:07:21,815 --> 01:07:26,175
Speaker 9: and where not everyone is capable of getting the assurance

1246
01:07:26,215 --> 01:07:28,535
Speaker 9: and then they just simply can't do the work themselves

1247
01:07:28,615 --> 01:07:31,815
Speaker 9: except under supervision. So again, I don't regard that as

1248
01:07:31,975 --> 01:07:34,015
Speaker 9: a terrible outcome if that's the place that sure.

1249
01:07:34,175 --> 01:07:36,895
Speaker 5: I mean, just looking at the numbers, I think last

1250
01:07:36,935 --> 01:07:40,295
Speaker 5: time I checked, there's about twelve thousand LBPS in terms

1251
01:07:40,295 --> 01:07:45,335
Speaker 5: of building LBPS roughly, I think typically NZ Certified Builders

1252
01:07:45,375 --> 01:07:48,615
Speaker 5: and Master Builders have about three thousand members each. So

1253
01:07:48,735 --> 01:07:52,135
Speaker 5: we're still talking about half of LBPS are not associated

1254
01:07:52,215 --> 01:07:55,855
Speaker 5: with either of those two professional bodies, and for whatever reason.

1255
01:07:56,015 --> 01:08:00,215
Speaker 5: But I mean, you're not talking about it becoming compulsory

1256
01:08:00,255 --> 01:08:01,375
Speaker 5: to join one of those bodies.

1257
01:08:01,415 --> 01:08:04,535
Speaker 9: Obviously, Well, it might be the case that we say

1258
01:08:04,655 --> 01:08:08,415
Speaker 9: it's compulsory to have some sort of of comfort being

1259
01:08:08,495 --> 01:08:11,095
Speaker 9: provided to the homeowner, and you can choose whether it's

1260
01:08:11,175 --> 01:08:13,975
Speaker 9: private insurance such as Stamford is happens to be the

1261
01:08:14,055 --> 01:08:18,255
Speaker 9: name of the outfit that is mentioned, or registered master

1262
01:08:18,295 --> 01:08:20,775
Speaker 9: Builders or Certified Builders which in this scheme of which

1263
01:08:20,855 --> 01:08:23,495
Speaker 9: is known as HALO. But essentially that's theme, yes, and

1264
01:08:24,175 --> 01:08:25,775
Speaker 9: we might say it's complexity to have one of those

1265
01:08:25,935 --> 01:08:28,855
Speaker 9: take your pack full disclosure to your client what it

1266
01:08:29,175 --> 01:08:31,455
Speaker 9: is that you've got in terms of coverage, because of course,

1267
01:08:31,495 --> 01:08:33,255
Speaker 9: the other point of our insurance is there's you know,

1268
01:08:33,975 --> 01:08:35,775
Speaker 9: there are gaps that you discover and we need need

1269
01:08:35,855 --> 01:08:39,335
Speaker 9: to make a claim careful, so again, zevil and detail absolutely,

1270
01:08:39,575 --> 01:08:41,655
Speaker 9: and our legal friend from last week would know that,

1271
01:08:42,095 --> 01:08:44,135
Speaker 9: and unfortunately a few of your listeners probably know that

1272
01:08:44,215 --> 01:08:46,175
Speaker 9: all too well. So we need to ensure that there

1273
01:08:46,255 --> 01:08:48,855
Speaker 9: is coverage. But it might be we can be agnostic

1274
01:08:49,015 --> 01:08:51,175
Speaker 9: as to what that looks like provided it's there.

1275
01:08:51,375 --> 01:08:52,255
Speaker 5: As long as it's there.

1276
01:08:52,375 --> 01:08:54,375
Speaker 9: Yeah, And actually, in just to broaden it out a

1277
01:08:54,415 --> 01:08:55,975
Speaker 9: little bit more as well, it might be that there

1278
01:08:56,055 --> 01:08:59,095
Speaker 9: is a deposit scheme put in place. You know, it

1279
01:08:59,135 --> 01:09:00,815
Speaker 9: seems to me that's a real gap at the moment

1280
01:09:00,895 --> 01:09:03,135
Speaker 9: in terms of our consumer protection. We might go further

1281
01:09:03,215 --> 01:09:05,455
Speaker 9: than we've got at the moment in terms of saying, well,

1282
01:09:05,495 --> 01:09:08,295
Speaker 9: if you're doing the bilding work in the first ten

1283
01:09:08,335 --> 01:09:11,015
Speaker 9: percent or so is paid down by the client, you

1284
01:09:11,095 --> 01:09:13,615
Speaker 9: can't simply use them as a bank and start using

1285
01:09:14,095 --> 01:09:17,055
Speaker 9: those funds elsewhere, because of course, when the other project

1286
01:09:17,095 --> 01:09:18,935
Speaker 9: falls over or things get a bit too hard and

1287
01:09:19,015 --> 01:09:21,335
Speaker 9: everyone knows it's out and plenty of people have lost

1288
01:09:21,815 --> 01:09:25,695
Speaker 9: over the years. So unfortunately, it is an interconnected system

1289
01:09:25,735 --> 01:09:27,215
Speaker 9: and we do need to take into count all the

1290
01:09:27,655 --> 01:09:31,055
Speaker 9: details interacting with each other, and it's why we're taking

1291
01:09:31,055 --> 01:09:31,895
Speaker 9: the time to work.

1292
01:09:31,775 --> 01:09:35,815
Speaker 5: Through that, sure, would there be a point at which

1293
01:09:35,895 --> 01:09:38,575
Speaker 5: government becomes the underwriter, you know, if you can't find

1294
01:09:38,615 --> 01:09:41,135
Speaker 5: an insurer that's prepared to enter the market and stay

1295
01:09:41,175 --> 01:09:42,975
Speaker 5: in the market. This is the other concern is that

1296
01:09:43,455 --> 01:09:45,895
Speaker 5: you know, we're talking about a ten year defect period, right,

1297
01:09:46,255 --> 01:09:49,495
Speaker 5: So someone taking out a policy today to their insurer,

1298
01:09:49,575 --> 01:09:51,775
Speaker 5: that insurer goes, I'm on the hook for the next

1299
01:09:51,815 --> 01:09:54,535
Speaker 5: ten years. Do I want to take that risk? Would

1300
01:09:54,615 --> 01:09:56,975
Speaker 5: government be the underwriter in some form?

1301
01:09:57,055 --> 01:10:00,575
Speaker 9: But potentially, and in fact, the government has already under

1302
01:10:00,615 --> 01:10:04,455
Speaker 9: ass and poor building practices in the past. Again, lucky

1303
01:10:04,495 --> 01:10:07,815
Speaker 9: buildings aren't along with the councils. And then you think

1304
01:10:07,855 --> 01:10:11,935
Speaker 9: about poor performance in the case of flooding or earthquakes,

1305
01:10:11,975 --> 01:10:14,815
Speaker 9: and obviously those are quite specialized scenarios and it's not

1306
01:10:15,015 --> 01:10:16,855
Speaker 9: just that there'll be poor workmanship. It might also be

1307
01:10:17,215 --> 01:10:19,695
Speaker 9: more often that the techniques don't stack up with the

1308
01:10:19,735 --> 01:10:22,535
Speaker 9: fact that we've been silly enough to enable building and

1309
01:10:22,575 --> 01:10:25,695
Speaker 9: flood zone. So you know, Amarly that's a little bit

1310
01:10:25,735 --> 01:10:28,215
Speaker 9: off to the side, But the taxpayer has under us

1311
01:10:28,415 --> 01:10:32,255
Speaker 9: a huge amount of poor performance or poor outcomes in

1312
01:10:32,295 --> 01:10:34,495
Speaker 9: the building space, so it wouldn't be new. But I

1313
01:10:34,535 --> 01:10:37,215
Speaker 9: think that kind of ad hoc approach where we just say, well,

1314
01:10:37,255 --> 01:10:39,815
Speaker 9: there's a political problem to be solved. Therefore, we're going

1315
01:10:39,855 --> 01:10:43,855
Speaker 9: to use taxpayer funds gather generally for specific issues. I

1316
01:10:43,935 --> 01:10:46,375
Speaker 9: think I would be nervous about being able to rely

1317
01:10:46,535 --> 01:10:48,855
Speaker 9: upon that, because you don't know what the circumstances would

1318
01:10:48,855 --> 01:10:49,415
Speaker 9: be in the future.

1319
01:10:49,655 --> 01:10:50,015
Speaker 7: Right now.

1320
01:10:50,095 --> 01:10:54,415
Speaker 9: There might be, for example, some sort of a levy scheme.

1321
01:10:54,535 --> 01:10:56,615
Speaker 9: Of course, we have a building leafy we do. Yeah,

1322
01:10:57,055 --> 01:11:00,695
Speaker 9: and other professions in the event of poor or unethical practice,

1323
01:11:00,775 --> 01:11:04,895
Speaker 9: have fidelity funds, and so look, it might be possible

1324
01:11:04,935 --> 01:11:06,575
Speaker 9: to build up a fund where it is aid out

1325
01:11:06,575 --> 01:11:09,695
Speaker 9: in exceptional circumstances. Again, that's not off the table, but

1326
01:11:09,775 --> 01:11:12,295
Speaker 9: I think I would say, as a matter of principle

1327
01:11:12,535 --> 01:11:14,735
Speaker 9: and therefore as a starting point, we don't want to

1328
01:11:14,855 --> 01:11:19,575
Speaker 9: encourage a scenario where rate payers or taxpayers, now we're

1329
01:11:19,575 --> 01:11:23,375
Speaker 9: talking about taxpayers, yes, subsidizing poor performance or the sector

1330
01:11:23,375 --> 01:11:25,975
Speaker 9: as a whole, by the way, subsidizing the poor performance

1331
01:11:26,015 --> 01:11:28,095
Speaker 9: of a few because that's I think why we have

1332
01:11:28,215 --> 01:11:31,095
Speaker 9: the quality issues that we have in a few cases,

1333
01:11:31,135 --> 01:11:32,855
Speaker 9: which is dragging down everyone else.

1334
01:11:33,655 --> 01:11:35,735
Speaker 5: Yep, we're going to take short break. We'll be back

1335
01:11:35,775 --> 01:11:38,855
Speaker 5: in a moment. Some of your text questions coming up

1336
01:11:38,935 --> 01:11:42,215
Speaker 5: shortly squeaky door or squeaky floor.

1337
01:11:42,455 --> 01:11:45,735
Speaker 1: Get the right advice from Peter Wolfcare, the resident builder

1338
01:11:45,975 --> 01:11:47,695
Speaker 1: on Newstalk SB with.

1339
01:11:47,775 --> 01:11:50,975
Speaker 5: Me in the studio this morning. Minister for Building in Construction,

1340
01:11:51,215 --> 01:11:54,975
Speaker 5: Chris Pink, delighted to have you with us. Let's actually

1341
01:11:55,055 --> 01:11:58,615
Speaker 5: I just want to focus in on I suppose the

1342
01:11:59,095 --> 01:12:03,975
Speaker 5: part of the insurance thing in terms of again coming

1343
01:12:04,015 --> 01:12:07,975
Speaker 5: back to the thing, will you be able to provide

1344
01:12:08,255 --> 01:12:10,615
Speaker 5: it's the underwriting thing that seems to be a bit

1345
01:12:10,655 --> 01:12:13,455
Speaker 5: of a focus there. If it's not there, then there's

1346
01:12:13,495 --> 01:12:16,975
Speaker 5: a gap. Is there another way to fill that empty chair?

1347
01:12:17,095 --> 01:12:21,735
Speaker 5: That that idea that maybe a homeowner innocently will end

1348
01:12:21,815 --> 01:12:24,055
Speaker 5: up in a position where they're going to take on

1349
01:12:24,975 --> 01:12:27,655
Speaker 5: or have to pay for repairs that they're not responsible for.

1350
01:12:28,615 --> 01:12:31,335
Speaker 5: So levy is one option, insurance is another.

1351
01:12:32,055 --> 01:12:37,535
Speaker 9: Any other we talked about the master builders and certified builders. Yeah,

1352
01:12:38,175 --> 01:12:40,215
Speaker 9: but the other thing is in going back to insurance

1353
01:12:40,215 --> 01:12:42,175
Speaker 9: as an example of this, we don't really know what's

1354
01:12:42,215 --> 01:12:45,015
Speaker 9: possible or what the appetite is because at the moment

1355
01:12:45,135 --> 01:12:47,535
Speaker 9: we don't have a system where you require some kind

1356
01:12:47,535 --> 01:12:49,775
Speaker 9: of consumer protection. So there's a bit of a chicken

1357
01:12:49,775 --> 01:12:52,895
Speaker 9: and egg proposition. It might be that you know that

1358
01:12:53,175 --> 01:12:55,455
Speaker 9: one insurance's in the market. And by the way, of course,

1359
01:12:55,455 --> 01:12:57,535
Speaker 9: as a private entity, government's not in the business of

1360
01:12:57,615 --> 01:13:00,575
Speaker 9: telling them what they should own, what they must fight,

1361
01:13:01,535 --> 01:13:04,335
Speaker 9: and I'd never seek to do that. But if we say, oh,

1362
01:13:04,415 --> 01:13:08,135
Speaker 9: there isn't an appetite in in New Zealand for ensuring

1363
01:13:08,575 --> 01:13:12,655
Speaker 9: building building defects policies, for example, because I mean, well,

1364
01:13:13,015 --> 01:13:14,575
Speaker 9: part of the reason might be because you don't need

1365
01:13:14,615 --> 01:13:17,255
Speaker 9: at the moment. Why would arise as a homeowner pay

1366
01:13:17,455 --> 01:13:21,375
Speaker 9: for an insurance product when I just know jolly well

1367
01:13:21,455 --> 01:13:23,495
Speaker 9: that the council down the road is going to stump

1368
01:13:23,575 --> 01:13:26,455
Speaker 9: up in the event that that's fully in the event

1369
01:13:26,535 --> 01:13:30,455
Speaker 9: that something goes wrong. So you know, by taking a

1370
01:13:30,535 --> 01:13:35,015
Speaker 9: decision as a government that we will move to proportionate liability.

1371
01:13:35,175 --> 01:13:37,175
Speaker 9: And now saying well, look, let's do the detail, we've

1372
01:13:37,175 --> 01:13:39,575
Speaker 9: got the opportunity to see what the appetite really is

1373
01:13:39,695 --> 01:13:43,135
Speaker 9: given the scenario that will prevail, namely that we determined

1374
01:13:43,135 --> 01:13:45,295
Speaker 9: that there will be consumer protection, so we don't have

1375
01:13:45,335 --> 01:13:48,495
Speaker 9: an empty chair, and let's see what the appetite for I.

1376
01:13:48,535 --> 01:13:50,575
Speaker 5: Know a number of people that I've been chatting to

1377
01:13:50,815 --> 01:13:52,895
Speaker 5: last couple of days, were sort of keen to get

1378
01:13:52,935 --> 01:13:54,935
Speaker 5: some updates on things like the granny flat or the

1379
01:13:54,975 --> 01:13:58,815
Speaker 5: simple standalone dwelling. How far down the track you with

1380
01:13:58,975 --> 01:14:00,175
Speaker 5: that legislation.

1381
01:13:59,935 --> 01:14:03,335
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean in parliamentary terms, and the process that

1382
01:14:03,455 --> 01:14:06,055
Speaker 9: obviously changes the law in this case the Building Acts Yes,

1383
01:14:06,375 --> 01:14:09,135
Speaker 9: with the Select Committee. So I think it'll be another

1384
01:14:09,975 --> 01:14:11,935
Speaker 9: few weeks. I was going to say a couple of weeks,

1385
01:14:11,935 --> 01:14:13,735
Speaker 9: but that's definitely too if I say you're going to

1386
01:14:13,775 --> 01:14:15,895
Speaker 9: fudge little bit more, maybe three, maybe four, maybe five,

1387
01:14:15,975 --> 01:14:19,815
Speaker 9: but within a few weeks of reporting back to the Parliament,

1388
01:14:20,415 --> 01:14:22,575
Speaker 9: which will then pass the law in another couple of

1389
01:14:22,655 --> 01:14:24,935
Speaker 9: weeks from there, and then so it will be between

1390
01:14:24,975 --> 01:14:27,815
Speaker 9: now and Christmas. Certainly we have that into law, and

1391
01:14:27,895 --> 01:14:29,615
Speaker 9: I know that's been long awaited, and I know it's

1392
01:14:30,775 --> 01:14:33,095
Speaker 9: frustrating when people have to wait for these processes to

1393
01:14:33,375 --> 01:14:35,895
Speaker 9: go through, but unfortunately is in the Building Act that

1394
01:14:36,255 --> 01:14:39,695
Speaker 9: that which is restricted and that which is exempt, and

1395
01:14:39,855 --> 01:14:41,775
Speaker 9: so we just need to go through and to drive

1396
01:14:41,775 --> 01:14:43,735
Speaker 9: and do it pretty carefully as well. We want up

1397
01:14:43,775 --> 01:14:46,775
Speaker 9: for all these things. It's both getting things locked in,

1398
01:14:46,895 --> 01:14:49,455
Speaker 9: particularly within a parliamentary tomb we don't want to leave

1399
01:14:49,455 --> 01:14:52,175
Speaker 9: people hanging. We know that we want certainty, but we

1400
01:14:52,255 --> 01:14:54,135
Speaker 9: also know we've got to get the detail right and

1401
01:14:54,255 --> 01:14:56,335
Speaker 9: take the time to hear what's needed so that we

1402
01:14:56,455 --> 01:14:59,455
Speaker 9: don't have, you know, a failure, which would which would

1403
01:14:59,495 --> 01:15:03,775
Speaker 9: be obviously pretty poor outcome for those involved, but also

1404
01:15:03,815 --> 01:15:05,615
Speaker 9: I think would result in a loss of confidence in

1405
01:15:05,655 --> 01:15:08,255
Speaker 9: the system, even we go back to the belts and

1406
01:15:08,335 --> 01:15:11,295
Speaker 9: braces approach that we've got that actually in practice operates

1407
01:15:11,295 --> 01:15:12,095
Speaker 9: as a straight jecket.

1408
01:15:13,695 --> 01:15:15,495
Speaker 5: Just in terms of some of the detail around what

1409
01:15:15,815 --> 01:15:19,575
Speaker 5: this simple standalone dwelling might look like. Part of the

1410
01:15:20,975 --> 01:15:23,495
Speaker 5: stuff that I've been reading is it's around lightweight materials.

1411
01:15:23,815 --> 01:15:25,895
Speaker 5: Will you be able to do one on a concrete slab?

1412
01:15:28,255 --> 01:15:31,135
Speaker 5: Will you be able to use podcast a seventy square

1413
01:15:31,175 --> 01:15:32,815
Speaker 5: meter building? So you're going to do that in the

1414
01:15:32,855 --> 01:15:35,895
Speaker 5: backyard as a simple standalone building. A lot of the

1415
01:15:35,975 --> 01:15:38,415
Speaker 5: descriptions around them at the moment are that they must

1416
01:15:38,455 --> 01:15:41,655
Speaker 5: be lightweight materials. What I haven't been able to see

1417
01:15:41,735 --> 01:15:44,015
Speaker 5: in any of the discussion is will that mean that

1418
01:15:44,055 --> 01:15:45,895
Speaker 5: you can put it on a concrete slab or are

1419
01:15:45,975 --> 01:15:48,935
Speaker 5: we likely to see them only being suspended timber floors

1420
01:15:49,175 --> 01:15:52,495
Speaker 5: and if so, is that because then if it goes wrong,

1421
01:15:52,575 --> 01:15:54,055
Speaker 5: you just lift it off and take it away.

1422
01:15:54,455 --> 01:15:59,815
Speaker 9: Oh I see, yeah, i'd probably be risky to okay,

1423
01:16:00,095 --> 01:16:01,135
Speaker 9: speak infernatively on that.

1424
01:16:01,575 --> 01:16:01,935
Speaker 5: That's a right.

1425
01:16:02,015 --> 01:16:04,215
Speaker 9: We have good people in me who can, yes, probably

1426
01:16:04,255 --> 01:16:05,735
Speaker 9: help me advice. I might have to come back to

1427
01:16:05,815 --> 01:16:06,815
Speaker 9: you on second.

1428
01:16:06,935 --> 01:16:09,135
Speaker 5: So we'll see more detail before the end of the year,

1429
01:16:09,335 --> 01:16:11,975
Speaker 5: into law by the end of the year, which means, folks,

1430
01:16:12,055 --> 01:16:13,735
Speaker 5: if you're thinking that you can go out and build one,

1431
01:16:13,775 --> 01:16:14,415
Speaker 5: now you can't.

1432
01:16:15,095 --> 01:16:17,495
Speaker 9: Right when you could you could go ahead, And I

1433
01:16:17,615 --> 01:16:19,815
Speaker 9: know that there are building companies around the place who

1434
01:16:19,815 --> 01:16:21,735
Speaker 9: are building these things. Yes, sure they can. Literally you

1435
01:16:21,775 --> 01:16:23,895
Speaker 9: know you can do it through contenter drag. Yeah, well

1436
01:16:24,255 --> 01:16:25,975
Speaker 9: that's right, if you can do it through the existing means.

1437
01:16:26,055 --> 01:16:28,895
Speaker 9: But also in a world of offsite manufacturing, there are

1438
01:16:28,895 --> 01:16:30,455
Speaker 9: people who have been getting ready their plans and in

1439
01:16:30,655 --> 01:16:32,575
Speaker 9: fact making structures now that they will be able to

1440
01:16:32,935 --> 01:16:35,855
Speaker 9: yes on notwithstanding my uncertainty on the light maker.

1441
01:16:36,615 --> 01:16:40,295
Speaker 5: Well they certainly won't see concrete slabs. Yeah, brilliant. Right,

1442
01:16:40,575 --> 01:16:42,655
Speaker 5: Let's get into a couple of texts. So John texts

1443
01:16:42,655 --> 01:16:45,375
Speaker 5: through good morning question for the minister. When a builder

1444
01:16:45,535 --> 01:16:49,895
Speaker 5: or any construction material provider goes into liquidation, can you

1445
01:16:50,095 --> 01:16:54,215
Speaker 5: still claim on insurance? How will that works?

1446
01:16:54,375 --> 01:16:56,735
Speaker 9: As as a former lawyer, I can tell you if

1447
01:16:56,815 --> 01:16:59,175
Speaker 9: the answer to every question is found in the contract.

1448
01:16:59,295 --> 01:17:03,295
Speaker 9: So the insurance that you would obtain, you know, could

1449
01:17:03,335 --> 01:17:06,255
Speaker 9: be a number of different types of insurance, would would

1450
01:17:06,735 --> 01:17:09,095
Speaker 9: tell you what kind of covery you've got in that scenario.

1451
01:17:10,295 --> 01:17:13,375
Speaker 9: In the case of what we call professional indemnity insurance,

1452
01:17:13,895 --> 01:17:16,655
Speaker 9: I think it's likely that we will be able to

1453
01:17:16,775 --> 01:17:20,295
Speaker 9: rely further and maybe to the point of being compulsory

1454
01:17:20,375 --> 01:17:23,935
Speaker 9: that architects and engineers would have that. So it might be,

1455
01:17:24,015 --> 01:17:26,735
Speaker 9: for example, that if an architect or an LBP design

1456
01:17:27,095 --> 01:17:31,055
Speaker 9: professional would specify particular products if there was some sort

1457
01:17:31,095 --> 01:17:33,335
Speaker 9: of failure, then it seems to me reasonable that you

1458
01:17:33,375 --> 01:17:36,535
Speaker 9: would expect them to have some responsibility. Again, maybe in

1459
01:17:37,695 --> 01:17:40,495
Speaker 9: conjunction with the council at least to some extent, and

1460
01:17:40,655 --> 01:17:47,215
Speaker 9: others involved as well, maybe the product manufacturer, whether or

1461
01:17:47,655 --> 01:17:49,935
Speaker 9: importer or distributor and so on. So there's a few

1462
01:17:49,975 --> 01:17:52,775
Speaker 9: different options there. Again, we're looking to try and nail

1463
01:17:52,855 --> 01:17:54,935
Speaker 9: that detail, but there are ways that we can make

1464
01:17:54,975 --> 01:17:58,895
Speaker 9: sure that to the maximum extent possible that people are

1465
01:17:58,975 --> 01:18:01,575
Speaker 9: on the hook. In Having said all that and without

1466
01:18:01,615 --> 01:18:03,775
Speaker 9: wanting to undermine that point, I think it's also true

1467
01:18:03,855 --> 01:18:08,575
Speaker 9: that we do need greater innovation in our building products,

1468
01:18:08,655 --> 01:18:11,255
Speaker 9: and that's not code for anything goes. You know, there

1469
01:18:11,295 --> 01:18:13,295
Speaker 9: are a lot of good products from overseas at the

1470
01:18:13,375 --> 01:18:16,295
Speaker 9: moment that are approved under jurisdictions that build at least

1471
01:18:16,335 --> 01:18:18,695
Speaker 9: as well as we do. For sure be told, you

1472
01:18:18,735 --> 01:18:22,975
Speaker 9: know in yeah, and at the moment, I don't think

1473
01:18:23,055 --> 01:18:25,215
Speaker 9: we allow our sounds to the full benefit of that

1474
01:18:25,375 --> 01:18:29,455
Speaker 9: because we have quite slow risk averse, but so just

1475
01:18:30,415 --> 01:18:32,815
Speaker 9: bureaucratic processes that don't actually add a lot of value

1476
01:18:32,815 --> 01:18:37,375
Speaker 9: when we're busy checking the same fire retardant and you know,

1477
01:18:38,055 --> 01:18:41,815
Speaker 9: water resistant qualities of that which has been approved elsewhere,

1478
01:18:42,015 --> 01:18:44,895
Speaker 9: and with the law of physics not differing between countries,

1479
01:18:45,015 --> 01:18:48,535
Speaker 9: albeit that climactic conditions and seismic conditions do I think

1480
01:18:48,615 --> 01:18:50,735
Speaker 9: we can be a bit more pragmatic in that space.

1481
01:18:51,575 --> 01:18:53,975
Speaker 5: Another texts come through. I mean, there's there's actually actually

1482
01:18:53,975 --> 01:18:55,415
Speaker 5: I want to go back and just drill down into

1483
01:18:55,455 --> 01:18:57,895
Speaker 5: one part. So you talk there about you know, like

1484
01:18:58,255 --> 01:19:03,775
Speaker 5: an architect designer specifying a particular product which then might fail.

1485
01:19:03,895 --> 01:19:06,535
Speaker 5: But if that product was presented to the designer with

1486
01:19:07,895 --> 01:19:10,455
Speaker 5: you know, all of the documentation to say it's except

1487
01:19:10,495 --> 01:19:12,775
Speaker 5: and it is acceptable in the building code, and that

1488
01:19:13,135 --> 01:19:17,655
Speaker 5: material gets through the building consent gets consented, and then

1489
01:19:17,815 --> 01:19:21,615
Speaker 5: the material fails inherently because the material fails, rather than

1490
01:19:22,095 --> 01:19:25,255
Speaker 5: why would the specifier or designer be liable for the

1491
01:19:25,575 --> 01:19:26,375
Speaker 5: product failure?

1492
01:19:26,895 --> 01:19:28,135
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean this is a problem. We've got it,

1493
01:19:28,135 --> 01:19:31,215
Speaker 9: okayment right, So, and I'm not being about it. It

1494
01:19:31,335 --> 01:19:32,975
Speaker 9: is a real world problem. But it's also not a

1495
01:19:33,015 --> 01:19:36,855
Speaker 9: new problem, and it won't be specific to the new

1496
01:19:36,935 --> 01:19:41,175
Speaker 9: regime where we're saying again that qualify that credible and

1497
01:19:41,215 --> 01:19:45,055
Speaker 9: comparable jurisdictions overseas that have signed off SED materials can

1498
01:19:45,175 --> 01:19:48,615
Speaker 9: be taken note of here. And so, yes, there are

1499
01:19:48,735 --> 01:19:51,495
Speaker 9: issues of fraud occasionally. A few years ago there was

1500
01:19:51,495 --> 01:19:55,975
Speaker 9: a regime broaden commonly known as BEEPACH Building Products Gosh

1501
01:19:56,095 --> 01:19:58,215
Speaker 9: Information requirements.

1502
01:19:58,255 --> 01:20:01,455
Speaker 5: While the building product information yeah, in thet IR not.

1503
01:20:01,615 --> 01:20:05,095
Speaker 9: Particularly well known, and maybe that there's something that we

1504
01:20:05,175 --> 01:20:07,495
Speaker 9: need to do to tweak or maybe it's just a

1505
01:20:07,535 --> 01:20:11,215
Speaker 9: matter of education slash enforcement part of MB But suddenly,

1506
01:20:11,255 --> 01:20:13,935
Speaker 9: if there are examples of that, I would like those

1507
01:20:14,015 --> 01:20:16,535
Speaker 9: to be public hangings to make an example to others.

1508
01:20:17,255 --> 01:20:18,935
Speaker 9: A number of people come up to me and they say, oh, Chris,

1509
01:20:19,015 --> 01:20:21,495
Speaker 9: you've got to realize that we've got this, you know,

1510
01:20:21,575 --> 01:20:23,855
Speaker 9: this particular product and you know it was a matter

1511
01:20:23,895 --> 01:20:26,295
Speaker 9: of fraud. And I said, oh, that that sounds terrible

1512
01:20:26,695 --> 01:20:28,455
Speaker 9: and what was the result when you reported it? And

1513
01:20:28,535 --> 01:20:29,975
Speaker 9: I said, oh, it's not really the dune thing to

1514
01:20:30,055 --> 01:20:34,015
Speaker 9: report it, right, okay, so be helpful. So yeah, you know,

1515
01:20:34,295 --> 01:20:36,735
Speaker 9: to your listeners, please speak up if you've got any

1516
01:20:36,815 --> 01:20:38,975
Speaker 9: kind of suspicion of that. We want to know. We

1517
01:20:39,055 --> 01:20:41,175
Speaker 9: want to weed out these examples because otherwise it will

1518
01:20:41,215 --> 01:20:42,535
Speaker 9: be the wild West, and.

1519
01:20:42,575 --> 01:20:45,135
Speaker 5: That that is a concern from I guess product suppliers

1520
01:20:45,135 --> 01:20:47,495
Speaker 5: who are already in the New Zealand market and then

1521
01:20:48,135 --> 01:20:50,415
Speaker 5: in some cases the New Zealand products or they have

1522
01:20:50,895 --> 01:20:55,695
Speaker 5: significant contribution to the manufacture of them, and they're saying, okay,

1523
01:20:55,775 --> 01:20:57,855
Speaker 5: so a similar product comes in, it's got a letter

1524
01:20:57,895 --> 01:21:00,375
Speaker 5: attached that says it's okay. How do we know that

1525
01:21:00,495 --> 01:21:05,415
Speaker 5: that letter is authentic or what's the validation process there?

1526
01:21:05,695 --> 01:21:08,775
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, I mean the answer to that, surely is

1527
01:21:08,855 --> 01:21:11,135
Speaker 9: it's the same for any any any time that someone

1528
01:21:11,255 --> 01:21:13,775
Speaker 9: claims in writing or otherwise that are things true, You've

1529
01:21:13,815 --> 01:21:18,215
Speaker 9: got to have some way of robustly ensuring that that's true. Yeah,

1530
01:21:18,255 --> 01:21:20,255
Speaker 9: And I mean I can't answer the question of each

1531
01:21:20,335 --> 01:21:25,575
Speaker 9: particular standard system or you know, letter of authenticity or

1532
01:21:26,215 --> 01:21:29,255
Speaker 9: giving assurances as to certain qualities, but you know, there

1533
01:21:29,255 --> 01:21:30,615
Speaker 9: are ways that we can look at these things. But

1534
01:21:30,855 --> 01:21:32,775
Speaker 9: at the moment, as I say that's that's an issue

1535
01:21:32,815 --> 01:21:34,815
Speaker 9: that sometimes raised with me, it could also be the

1536
01:21:34,895 --> 01:21:36,815
Speaker 9: case and I'm not saying that it is, but it

1537
01:21:36,855 --> 01:21:38,255
Speaker 9: could be the case that I could claim for my

1538
01:21:38,335 --> 01:21:40,495
Speaker 9: New Zealand product that it has certain qualities and that's

1539
01:21:40,575 --> 01:21:44,655
Speaker 9: not examined either. Then that's a problem too. So that

1540
01:21:44,815 --> 01:21:48,135
Speaker 9: again we've got you know, we've got brands or a

1541
01:21:48,255 --> 01:21:51,215
Speaker 9: really good organization in terms of having technical expertise, and

1542
01:21:51,295 --> 01:21:53,295
Speaker 9: I know that you've interacted with a bit before and

1543
01:21:53,535 --> 01:21:56,735
Speaker 9: seeing their stuff. Councils or b c as building consent

1544
01:21:56,815 --> 01:21:59,575
Speaker 9: authorities will still have a role in terms of this stuff,

1545
01:21:59,775 --> 01:22:02,295
Speaker 9: albeit that we're saying that if it's reasonable for them

1546
01:22:02,375 --> 01:22:05,895
Speaker 9: to think that it's actually authentic, that certain claims have

1547
01:22:05,975 --> 01:22:09,735
Speaker 9: been made and the international standards organizations or the European

1548
01:22:09,815 --> 01:22:12,575
Speaker 9: standards have been met as long as that's reasonable to

1549
01:22:12,695 --> 01:22:15,335
Speaker 9: conclude that that is in fact the case. Then we're

1550
01:22:15,375 --> 01:22:17,975
Speaker 9: not going to ask them to second guess whether the

1551
01:22:18,015 --> 01:22:20,935
Speaker 9: European standards are equal to higher than news salant. If

1552
01:22:20,975 --> 01:22:22,575
Speaker 9: we've done that at a centralized level.

1553
01:22:22,575 --> 01:22:24,215
Speaker 5: We're going to go the news will come back with

1554
01:22:24,375 --> 01:22:25,855
Speaker 5: the Minister after the break.

1555
01:22:28,175 --> 01:22:32,055
Speaker 1: Helping you get those DIY projects done right. The resident

1556
01:22:32,095 --> 01:22:35,735
Speaker 1: fielder with Peta Wolfcare call, Oh, eight hundred eighteen News

1557
01:22:35,815 --> 01:22:36,615
Speaker 1: Talk ZB.

1558
01:22:37,175 --> 01:22:39,295
Speaker 5: Your new Talk CB coming up seven minutes or just

1559
01:22:39,375 --> 01:22:41,215
Speaker 5: six and a half minutes after eight with me in

1560
01:22:41,255 --> 01:22:44,375
Speaker 5: the studio. The Minister for Building in Construction, Chris Pink

1561
01:22:44,495 --> 01:22:46,855
Speaker 5: is with me without further adue, we're going to race

1562
01:22:47,015 --> 01:22:50,255
Speaker 5: right into your text messages. So Pete, with the idea

1563
01:22:50,295 --> 01:22:53,055
Speaker 5: of liability being shared, is it time to have the

1564
01:22:53,335 --> 01:22:58,095
Speaker 5: LBP threshold being raised to a minimum level five? Qualification

1565
01:22:58,655 --> 01:23:02,135
Speaker 5: insurance is the way forward, but more responsibility on the LBP.

1566
01:23:02,375 --> 01:23:06,055
Speaker 5: After all, they're the professionals in practical construction. So would

1567
01:23:06,095 --> 01:23:10,615
Speaker 5: you look at introducing higher levels to the LBP course

1568
01:23:10,735 --> 01:23:11,455
Speaker 5: or qualification.

1569
01:23:11,975 --> 01:23:16,255
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm really interested in the occupational licensing or know LBP. Obviously,

1570
01:23:16,495 --> 01:23:19,055
Speaker 9: in the case of what we often think about as builders,

1571
01:23:19,135 --> 01:23:22,175
Speaker 9: but you know, of course there are qualifications and experience

1572
01:23:22,255 --> 01:23:24,935
Speaker 9: and practition and boards across the other trades as well.

1573
01:23:25,975 --> 01:23:27,695
Speaker 9: I'm really interested in that for exactly the reason that

1574
01:23:28,095 --> 01:23:31,135
Speaker 9: your Texter says, it's an obvious place to ensure we've

1575
01:23:31,175 --> 01:23:33,255
Speaker 9: got good quality as a starting point. Yes, of course,

1576
01:23:33,375 --> 01:23:36,775
Speaker 9: whether it's insurance or the rate payer through the different

1577
01:23:36,815 --> 01:23:39,655
Speaker 9: liability settings, that's all ambulance at the bottom of the

1578
01:23:39,655 --> 01:23:41,575
Speaker 9: cliff stuff as opposed to events at the top. So

1579
01:23:41,895 --> 01:23:45,015
Speaker 9: good qualified traders who can be relied upon because they've

1580
01:23:45,055 --> 01:23:49,535
Speaker 9: got a qualification is a good starting point. I'm not

1581
01:23:49,575 --> 01:23:50,895
Speaker 9: saying that we don't have a good system, but there

1582
01:23:50,935 --> 01:23:52,935
Speaker 9: have been enough people of who raised to me similar

1583
01:23:53,015 --> 01:23:54,735
Speaker 9: kind of questions and comments that it seems to me

1584
01:23:54,815 --> 01:23:57,455
Speaker 9: that's the thing we can and should look at. I'm

1585
01:23:57,495 --> 01:24:00,095
Speaker 9: not going to say though, that within the next eighteen months,

1586
01:24:00,455 --> 01:24:03,375
Speaker 9: he said, checking the calendar and the current parliamentary tune,

1587
01:24:03,415 --> 01:24:05,015
Speaker 9: that that's a reform that will be able to get

1588
01:24:05,015 --> 01:24:07,815
Speaker 9: across the line. But so fast say, between the existing

1589
01:24:07,895 --> 01:24:11,055
Speaker 9: ways that we can demonstrate competence and experience, and also

1590
01:24:11,295 --> 01:24:14,095
Speaker 9: existing mechanisms within it, such as the site two license,

1591
01:24:14,415 --> 01:24:16,135
Speaker 9: I think their opportunity is there for us to make

1592
01:24:16,175 --> 01:24:18,495
Speaker 9: sure we've got a good quality base just.

1593
01:24:18,575 --> 01:24:20,775
Speaker 5: On the site two license. I think that the LBP,

1594
01:24:21,415 --> 01:24:25,175
Speaker 5: So if you're an LBP building, then there's only one

1595
01:24:25,255 --> 01:24:28,655
Speaker 5: license class, right, you're just LBP building. I would like

1596
01:24:28,775 --> 01:24:32,215
Speaker 5: to see LBP level one, two, and three maybe similar

1597
01:24:32,255 --> 01:24:34,455
Speaker 5: to the site license, and that you know, for example,

1598
01:24:34,455 --> 01:24:37,815
Speaker 5: if you're talking remote inspections, that might only be offered

1599
01:24:37,855 --> 01:24:40,495
Speaker 5: to lbps that are at level two or level three

1600
01:24:40,655 --> 01:24:44,535
Speaker 5: rather than across the board, because you know, arguably we're

1601
01:24:44,575 --> 01:24:47,055
Speaker 5: not all at the same level, but we've all got

1602
01:24:47,135 --> 01:24:47,815
Speaker 5: the same title.

1603
01:24:48,135 --> 01:24:49,895
Speaker 9: Yeah, very good point. I quite agree.

1604
01:24:50,055 --> 01:24:52,055
Speaker 5: I'll throw that in there. Can you tell us when

1605
01:24:52,095 --> 01:24:54,895
Speaker 5: the new thermal insulation rules will be in H one?

1606
01:24:55,015 --> 01:24:57,015
Speaker 5: So the changes to H one, you've signaled that the

1607
01:24:57,095 --> 01:24:59,295
Speaker 5: schedule method has gone good riddance. I think that's a

1608
01:24:59,295 --> 01:25:02,935
Speaker 5: great idea. When will we have calculation and modeling only?

1609
01:25:03,855 --> 01:25:05,935
Speaker 9: Will a twelve months lead in from a couple of

1610
01:25:05,975 --> 01:25:08,175
Speaker 9: months I think from when we announced that, so doing

1611
01:25:08,215 --> 01:25:10,415
Speaker 9: the mathots around the ten month mark, But certainly if

1612
01:25:10,415 --> 01:25:11,735
Speaker 9: you were to look on the mb web site, it

1613
01:25:11,775 --> 01:25:14,095
Speaker 9: would be clear the point at which you can no

1614
01:25:14,215 --> 01:25:16,095
Speaker 9: longer do the schedule method and as you say, then

1615
01:25:16,375 --> 01:25:18,975
Speaker 9: calculation and modeling, which are currently already the case, will

1616
01:25:19,015 --> 01:25:22,535
Speaker 9: be used in every occasion going forward, which is great.

1617
01:25:22,615 --> 01:25:25,055
Speaker 5: I think. Can you ask the Minister, yes, I can,

1618
01:25:25,255 --> 01:25:27,775
Speaker 5: if he thinks that opening up the windows system to

1619
01:25:27,855 --> 01:25:32,055
Speaker 5: the international market creates the risk of another leaky building crisis.

1620
01:25:33,135 --> 01:25:36,215
Speaker 9: Opening windows, there's something in that windows is a good thing.

1621
01:25:36,295 --> 01:25:39,415
Speaker 5: But yeah, I understand, Well how do you prevent it? Basically?

1622
01:25:39,575 --> 01:25:41,735
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean the answer is you need a system

1623
01:25:41,775 --> 01:25:44,775
Speaker 9: where you don't have lower standards than those in New Zealand.

1624
01:25:44,935 --> 01:25:48,775
Speaker 9: So that's why we are not saying everything from every

1625
01:25:49,335 --> 01:25:51,775
Speaker 9: country or state that's approved overseas will be able to

1626
01:25:51,815 --> 01:25:54,295
Speaker 9: be used as a rice in New Zealand. And smarter

1627
01:25:54,415 --> 01:25:56,935
Speaker 9: people than me with technical now have gone through to

1628
01:25:57,095 --> 01:26:00,295
Speaker 9: look at what the standards are in other jurisdictions. And

1629
01:26:00,655 --> 01:26:03,735
Speaker 9: you know, my expectation, I hope is we're quite conservative

1630
01:26:03,775 --> 01:26:06,775
Speaker 9: in that, particularly where they are vulnerable elements of a building.

1631
01:26:07,215 --> 01:26:11,015
Speaker 9: And I'm not needing to be a technical person to

1632
01:26:11,095 --> 01:26:13,975
Speaker 9: understand that. Obviously windows are a particular point of vulnerability, yes,

1633
01:26:14,095 --> 01:26:19,215
Speaker 9: all the obvious reasons, and so we simply we've designed

1634
01:26:19,215 --> 01:26:25,095
Speaker 9: a system in which we won't have inappropriate standards of

1635
01:26:25,815 --> 01:26:28,735
Speaker 9: such items coming into this country. Now, the obvious caviator

1636
01:26:28,775 --> 01:26:30,975
Speaker 9: is the thing we're discussing before, which if there's actual

1637
01:26:31,415 --> 01:26:34,055
Speaker 9: instances of outright fraud in terms of whether something has

1638
01:26:34,215 --> 01:26:36,935
Speaker 9: passed certain measures overseas, then that's something we need to

1639
01:26:36,975 --> 01:26:39,095
Speaker 9: be vigilant on again because an existing problem.

1640
01:26:39,855 --> 01:26:42,615
Speaker 5: Right, Oh, what are the chances this going back to

1641
01:26:42,695 --> 01:26:46,775
Speaker 5: the seventy square meter granny flat, we're going to get

1642
01:26:46,815 --> 01:26:48,855
Speaker 5: a tiny home placed on a property that already has

1643
01:26:48,895 --> 01:26:52,215
Speaker 5: a dwelling. It'll be in use for our retirement. Will

1644
01:26:52,255 --> 01:26:54,455
Speaker 5: there be like a temporary rule to allow it to

1645
01:26:54,495 --> 01:26:56,415
Speaker 5: be purchased now and placed on the land, but not

1646
01:26:56,535 --> 01:26:59,495
Speaker 5: to connect to any service, will be occupied until the

1647
01:26:59,575 --> 01:27:00,335
Speaker 5: new law kicks in?

1648
01:27:01,535 --> 01:27:05,175
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, I mean my understanding is a tricky one. Yeah,

1649
01:27:05,215 --> 01:27:06,655
Speaker 9: it is a tricky one because it's right in that

1650
01:27:07,015 --> 01:27:10,455
Speaker 9: transition period, which is always one of the tricky elements

1651
01:27:10,495 --> 01:27:12,815
Speaker 9: of writing legislation. You know, how far do you look back?

1652
01:27:12,855 --> 01:27:14,495
Speaker 9: But I would say it would be the point at

1653
01:27:14,495 --> 01:27:17,615
Speaker 9: which you move a structure onto a property with regard

1654
01:27:17,655 --> 01:27:21,375
Speaker 9: it as effectively as being built there. And by the way,

1655
01:27:21,495 --> 01:27:23,855
Speaker 9: sorry to be complicated, there's also a resource of management

1656
01:27:23,975 --> 01:27:25,975
Speaker 9: element as well. So when you get into the whole

1657
01:27:26,055 --> 01:27:27,775
Speaker 9: question of what is a building and whether it needs

1658
01:27:27,815 --> 01:27:30,295
Speaker 9: to be moveable, you know there's a lot of gnarly

1659
01:27:30,375 --> 01:27:32,295
Speaker 9: detail on there that I know that Chris Bishop, who's

1660
01:27:32,295 --> 01:27:34,535
Speaker 9: the realm of stuff with that stuff and knows that

1661
01:27:34,655 --> 01:27:36,815
Speaker 9: we need to get right as well. Again, we want

1662
01:27:36,855 --> 01:27:39,455
Speaker 9: to be enabling as much as possible, but also got

1663
01:27:39,495 --> 01:27:43,375
Speaker 9: to have some sort of reasonable baseline in terms of quality,

1664
01:27:43,535 --> 01:27:46,335
Speaker 9: but you know, in amenity and other factors too.

1665
01:27:47,055 --> 01:27:48,775
Speaker 5: Just on the h one as well. I got a

1666
01:27:48,815 --> 01:27:51,495
Speaker 5: text earlier this morning going, hey, look, we don't have

1667
01:27:51,615 --> 01:27:54,495
Speaker 5: to worry because we're in Northland and we're exempt from

1668
01:27:54,575 --> 01:27:57,295
Speaker 5: thermal requirements. That's not true. No one's exist, not.

1669
01:27:57,375 --> 01:28:01,095
Speaker 9: Quite, no one in some way, shape or form, I

1670
01:28:01,135 --> 01:28:03,255
Speaker 9: would say. In the case of Northland, I've asked MB

1671
01:28:03,375 --> 01:28:06,055
Speaker 9: to look at whether there could be a special climate zone. Sure,

1672
01:28:06,375 --> 01:28:09,175
Speaker 9: because Authland is different from South London and lots of

1673
01:28:09,215 --> 01:28:12,135
Speaker 9: ways that are clear if you walk around Southland and

1674
01:28:12,215 --> 01:28:14,335
Speaker 9: shorts and t shirt sometimes you're doing that up North.

1675
01:28:14,775 --> 01:28:19,495
Speaker 9: So it'll be a nuanced and hopefully you know, appropriate

1676
01:28:19,575 --> 01:28:22,695
Speaker 9: way of recognizing the fact there's are quite different distances

1677
01:28:22,735 --> 01:28:24,855
Speaker 9: from the equator but it won't be the case that

1678
01:28:24,895 --> 01:28:27,615
Speaker 9: there's no rules oh one fed, nor.

1679
01:28:28,495 --> 01:28:30,735
Speaker 5: Will the rights to build a seventy square meter grannie

1680
01:28:30,735 --> 01:28:35,135
Speaker 5: flat always take precedence over resource management or local zoning rules.

1681
01:28:35,175 --> 01:28:39,695
Speaker 9: From Phil short answer, yes, and what I mean by

1682
01:28:39,735 --> 01:28:44,815
Speaker 9: that is that the granny flats policy includes that you

1683
01:28:44,855 --> 01:28:48,815
Speaker 9: won't need a resource consent or a building consent. And

1684
01:28:48,975 --> 01:28:51,775
Speaker 9: so the rule that will be promulgated by Chris Bishop

1685
01:28:51,935 --> 01:28:54,455
Speaker 9: and time to align with the Building Act changes will say,

1686
01:28:54,815 --> 01:28:56,855
Speaker 9: as of right, here's what you can do in terms

1687
01:28:56,895 --> 01:29:00,655
Speaker 9: of a minor residential unit granny flat, and it will

1688
01:29:00,735 --> 01:29:05,015
Speaker 9: have some requirements around setback from boundaries in distance, you know,

1689
01:29:05,055 --> 01:29:07,535
Speaker 9: because we need to think about fire for the major dwelling,

1690
01:29:07,615 --> 01:29:10,695
Speaker 9: but also other properties. So there will be some rules,

1691
01:29:10,735 --> 01:29:12,975
Speaker 9: but they'll be uniform across the country. And that's one

1692
01:29:13,015 --> 01:29:14,775
Speaker 9: of the things that's been missing in the resource space

1693
01:29:14,855 --> 01:29:17,175
Speaker 9: as well as at a building level in terms of

1694
01:29:17,375 --> 01:29:18,775
Speaker 9: interpretations of the building code.

1695
01:29:21,095 --> 01:29:23,495
Speaker 5: Can you please ask Chris if we can get counsels

1696
01:29:23,575 --> 01:29:26,615
Speaker 5: to apply the law equally. Some councils are far more

1697
01:29:26,695 --> 01:29:29,495
Speaker 5: helpful with advice and they'll get to accept things versus

1698
01:29:29,575 --> 01:29:32,295
Speaker 5: a neighboring council that insists that maybe you get an

1699
01:29:32,415 --> 01:29:36,015
Speaker 5: independent advice and rejected if it doesn't fit with their interpretation.

1700
01:29:36,495 --> 01:29:39,415
Speaker 5: I have always been baffled by this notion that we

1701
01:29:39,575 --> 01:29:42,575
Speaker 5: have one building code, we have one Building Act, and

1702
01:29:42,735 --> 01:29:47,055
Speaker 5: you have two adjoining councils bcas who seem to interpret

1703
01:29:47,135 --> 01:29:49,655
Speaker 5: it differently. How did we get there?

1704
01:29:49,815 --> 01:29:52,335
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's such a good question that I'm suspecting it's

1705
01:29:52,415 --> 01:29:54,975
Speaker 9: what we call in politics a patsy question in rime time,

1706
01:29:55,015 --> 01:29:58,255
Speaker 9: where it's almost you know. I love that I've been

1707
01:29:58,295 --> 01:30:00,815
Speaker 9: asked that question because it's raised with me a lot,

1708
01:30:01,375 --> 01:30:02,815
Speaker 9: and it's one of the things we need to do

1709
01:30:03,335 --> 01:30:07,735
Speaker 9: to even out those inconsistencies across the country. Your correspondent,

1710
01:30:07,895 --> 01:30:11,615
Speaker 9: no doubt has experienced this, whether he or she is

1711
01:30:11,655 --> 01:30:13,975
Speaker 9: getting building done or doing the building on either side

1712
01:30:14,015 --> 01:30:16,615
Speaker 9: of a council boundary. But of course at a system

1713
01:30:16,655 --> 01:30:18,415
Speaker 9: wide level, that means you don't get the efficiency of

1714
01:30:18,455 --> 01:30:21,175
Speaker 9: people being able to design a single building and use

1715
01:30:21,215 --> 01:30:24,055
Speaker 9: that at scale in different parts of the country. And

1716
01:30:24,215 --> 01:30:26,935
Speaker 9: the answer is, in an ideal world, to be honest,

1717
01:30:26,935 --> 01:30:29,295
Speaker 9: I think we'd have one building consent authority, albeit with

1718
01:30:29,375 --> 01:30:32,055
Speaker 9: the problems of a monopoly or a centrally government controlled

1719
01:30:32,095 --> 01:30:34,015
Speaker 9: behemoth that you have at the moment, we're quite the

1720
01:30:34,055 --> 01:30:36,775
Speaker 9: other way with sixty six different councils for filling that function,

1721
01:30:37,215 --> 01:30:40,575
Speaker 9: by announcing recently as the government, we've decided to enable

1722
01:30:40,695 --> 01:30:44,095
Speaker 9: councils to consolidate their functions at a regional level, which

1723
01:30:44,175 --> 01:30:45,655
Speaker 9: is what they've told me that they want to do,

1724
01:30:45,775 --> 01:30:48,415
Speaker 9: by the way, and therefore share the resources and get

1725
01:30:48,455 --> 01:30:54,735
Speaker 9: the efficiencies of manpower, but also accreditation processes it systems

1726
01:30:55,215 --> 01:30:57,375
Speaker 9: make that consistent. I think we'll get a lot less

1727
01:30:57,415 --> 01:31:01,215
Speaker 9: of those inconsistency, certainly council by council in a given area.

1728
01:31:01,535 --> 01:31:06,255
Speaker 9: And then if the other potential direction from which helped

1729
01:31:06,335 --> 01:31:08,375
Speaker 9: all becoming in this regard is that if you say, well,

1730
01:31:08,375 --> 01:31:11,935
Speaker 9: if you've got some private building content authorities or national

1731
01:31:12,375 --> 01:31:15,375
Speaker 9: as in across the nation, I think even consenting at

1732
01:31:15,375 --> 01:31:17,855
Speaker 9: the moment does that work. Admittedly just in social housing,

1733
01:31:18,215 --> 01:31:21,375
Speaker 9: sure something we could consider. Then you could actually say,

1734
01:31:21,415 --> 01:31:23,495
Speaker 9: well you should get a consistent interpretation because you've got

1735
01:31:23,535 --> 01:31:25,855
Speaker 9: one body who can do Northland to South End and

1736
01:31:26,015 --> 01:31:27,055
Speaker 9: everywhere in between.

1737
01:31:27,535 --> 01:31:30,575
Speaker 5: With the arrival because there's another private building consenting or

1738
01:31:30,655 --> 01:31:33,975
Speaker 5: BCA company that's come out clever name given it sounds

1739
01:31:34,015 --> 01:31:37,855
Speaker 5: exactly like the councils. So they're there now. Way back

1740
01:31:37,895 --> 01:31:40,495
Speaker 5: in the nineties we had all sorts of private certifiers

1741
01:31:40,575 --> 01:31:43,095
Speaker 5: doing work. As soon as it got tricky, they disappeared.

1742
01:31:44,455 --> 01:31:46,775
Speaker 5: What's in the legislation to make sure that that doesn't

1743
01:31:46,775 --> 01:31:47,255
Speaker 5: happen again.

1744
01:31:47,655 --> 01:31:51,295
Speaker 9: Yeah, that it's already the case that you can have

1745
01:31:51,575 --> 01:31:54,615
Speaker 9: those private building consent authorities. That's not a thing that

1746
01:31:54,695 --> 01:31:57,575
Speaker 9: I've introduced. It just so happens that only one of

1747
01:31:57,655 --> 01:32:00,375
Speaker 9: them has ever managed to get across the threshold to

1748
01:32:00,455 --> 01:32:02,215
Speaker 9: be accepted by mb for that right.

1749
01:32:02,575 --> 01:32:05,215
Speaker 5: And as you say, that's the christ Church here.

1750
01:32:05,335 --> 01:32:07,175
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's right. And what they had to do was

1751
01:32:07,255 --> 01:32:10,455
Speaker 9: demonstrate that they had adequate means that yes phrases okay,

1752
01:32:10,695 --> 01:32:13,095
Speaker 9: that they can meet in the event of a failure

1753
01:32:13,175 --> 01:32:15,695
Speaker 9: for which they are responsible because they've signed off, you know,

1754
01:32:15,975 --> 01:32:19,175
Speaker 9: provider consents, done the inspections, given a co complaint certificate.

1755
01:32:19,535 --> 01:32:21,695
Speaker 9: They can stand behind that work to the extent of

1756
01:32:22,855 --> 01:32:25,535
Speaker 9: meeting any claims so that someone who's who's used them

1757
01:32:25,695 --> 01:32:28,535
Speaker 9: or had their build own and professionals use them, you know,

1758
01:32:28,575 --> 01:32:30,735
Speaker 9: won't be left empty handed. So that work's been done

1759
01:32:30,775 --> 01:32:33,455
Speaker 9: to make sure that they can't for example, turn out

1760
01:32:33,495 --> 01:32:36,135
Speaker 9: their pockets, say we can't be responsible, I've got no money,

1761
01:32:36,335 --> 01:32:39,455
Speaker 9: and then shift their assets somewhere else, what lawyers call phoenixing.

1762
01:32:39,855 --> 01:32:43,295
Speaker 5: Yeah, just in terms of proportional liability. You know, we've

1763
01:32:43,335 --> 01:32:46,695
Speaker 5: focused a little bit on perhaps designers, engineers and the

1764
01:32:46,895 --> 01:32:50,855
Speaker 5: LBP sort of as the main contractor. But you would

1765
01:32:50,895 --> 01:32:55,095
Speaker 5: expect then that if restricted building workers being done by waterproofers, plumbers,

1766
01:32:55,215 --> 01:33:00,175
Speaker 5: drain layers, roofers, et cetera, pladding installers, they would all

1767
01:33:00,335 --> 01:33:03,415
Speaker 5: then need to have to ensure that they would have

1768
01:33:03,495 --> 01:33:06,535
Speaker 5: insurance as well. So it's it's not just LBP builder

1769
01:33:06,815 --> 01:33:09,455
Speaker 5: getting insurance. All of those other trades would need to

1770
01:33:09,455 --> 01:33:11,495
Speaker 5: be insured all the ten year run up.

1771
01:33:11,655 --> 01:33:14,615
Speaker 9: I would say, insurance needs to cover all the work done.

1772
01:33:15,255 --> 01:33:17,855
Speaker 9: And I'm sort of deliberately making a fine distinction there

1773
01:33:17,975 --> 01:33:21,575
Speaker 9: between scenario and what you've said, which is to say,

1774
01:33:21,775 --> 01:33:23,735
Speaker 9: and again we're looking at the detail because we know

1775
01:33:23,815 --> 01:33:25,695
Speaker 9: we've got to get this right. It might be that

1776
01:33:25,895 --> 01:33:29,335
Speaker 9: the head contractor, that the person whom the homeowner is engaging,

1777
01:33:30,415 --> 01:33:33,255
Speaker 9: is insured for all the work that's done, and then

1778
01:33:33,255 --> 01:33:35,775
Speaker 9: they have some arrangement with their subcontractors. But I don't

1779
01:33:35,775 --> 01:33:38,535
Speaker 9: think that's the same thing as saying that every sparky

1780
01:33:38,855 --> 01:33:42,015
Speaker 9: or plumber or whoever it may be, has to have

1781
01:33:42,095 --> 01:33:44,655
Speaker 9: that insurance themselves. As long as there's coverage there somewhere,

1782
01:33:45,455 --> 01:33:48,135
Speaker 9: that seems to be the right place to balance the

1783
01:33:48,215 --> 01:33:52,095
Speaker 9: cost as opposed to the assurance that we need as well.

1784
01:33:52,535 --> 01:33:55,095
Speaker 5: Another question about the grannie flat, someone's saying, ken a

1785
01:33:55,215 --> 01:34:01,135
Speaker 5: relocated building I an existing building from another property qualify

1786
01:34:01,255 --> 01:34:03,975
Speaker 5: as for this minor dwelling or does it need to

1787
01:34:04,015 --> 01:34:04,975
Speaker 5: be a new dwelling?

1788
01:34:06,015 --> 01:34:08,615
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, there's nothing to stop you moving on

1789
01:34:09,735 --> 01:34:12,255
Speaker 9: an existing dwelling if you've got the right consents. So

1790
01:34:12,895 --> 01:34:15,975
Speaker 9: just reminding ourselves that granny flats are specifically that which

1791
01:34:16,055 --> 01:34:19,455
Speaker 9: doesn't require a consent. If it was constructed in a

1792
01:34:19,535 --> 01:34:21,695
Speaker 9: way that didn't have a consent in the first place,

1793
01:34:22,175 --> 01:34:24,735
Speaker 9: then I would say that they're probably full foul of

1794
01:34:24,775 --> 01:34:28,015
Speaker 9: the rules. Devil on the details to do check the

1795
01:34:28,135 --> 01:34:31,855
Speaker 9: legislation has been passed in its final form, But of

1796
01:34:31,975 --> 01:34:36,655
Speaker 9: course the purpose is to make sure that everything's done

1797
01:34:36,655 --> 01:34:37,855
Speaker 9: in accordance with the building code.

1798
01:34:37,975 --> 01:34:38,175
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1799
01:34:38,255 --> 01:34:41,735
Speaker 9: Sure, And if we're not certain of that in terms

1800
01:34:41,735 --> 01:34:42,975
Speaker 9: of when it was built, then we need to be

1801
01:34:43,055 --> 01:34:45,215
Speaker 9: certain of it when it's moved, so one way or

1802
01:34:45,215 --> 01:34:46,295
Speaker 9: the other, I think you'll need to be able to

1803
01:34:46,335 --> 01:34:48,615
Speaker 9: demonstrate that unless you're building you from the time that

1804
01:34:48,655 --> 01:34:52,255
Speaker 9: the rules come in, using the right people and being

1805
01:34:52,375 --> 01:34:54,455
Speaker 9: under seventy square meters and single story, et cetera.

1806
01:34:55,095 --> 01:34:57,535
Speaker 5: Just on the granny flat, given that there is not

1807
01:34:57,975 --> 01:35:00,855
Speaker 5: necessarily the requirement to get a building consent for it,

1808
01:35:01,015 --> 01:35:03,415
Speaker 5: but you still have to build an accordance to the

1809
01:35:03,495 --> 01:35:07,335
Speaker 5: building code. But if councils not checking it, who might

1810
01:35:07,495 --> 01:35:08,095
Speaker 5: be checking it.

1811
01:35:08,855 --> 01:35:11,815
Speaker 9: Yeah, it'll be certified by the person doing the work.

1812
01:35:12,455 --> 01:35:16,615
Speaker 9: And yes, that's a mind shift for us at the moment,

1813
01:35:16,655 --> 01:35:18,495
Speaker 9: I suppose, in the sense that we're asking people to

1814
01:35:18,655 --> 01:35:21,455
Speaker 9: stand behind their own work as far as builders go,

1815
01:35:21,575 --> 01:35:24,655
Speaker 9: who are licensed building practitioners. But it's also worth remembering

1816
01:35:25,215 --> 01:35:28,095
Speaker 9: apart from the fact that we want relatively lower structures

1817
01:35:28,135 --> 01:35:30,375
Speaker 9: to be able to be done much more quickly and affordably,

1818
01:35:30,455 --> 01:35:33,215
Speaker 9: and again it's recall the whole purpose of trying to

1819
01:35:33,255 --> 01:35:36,455
Speaker 9: get this thing underway. At the moment. Of course, we

1820
01:35:36,615 --> 01:35:40,135
Speaker 9: have electricians and gasfitter is able to sign off their

1821
01:35:40,135 --> 01:35:42,455
Speaker 9: own work, and potentially that's pretty dangerous stuff, you know,

1822
01:35:42,575 --> 01:35:46,295
Speaker 9: live power and all the implications and until recently, and

1823
01:35:46,495 --> 01:35:48,535
Speaker 9: I say until recently a bit of a liberty because

1824
01:35:48,535 --> 01:35:51,695
Speaker 9: we're going through the process of changing the law, plumbers

1825
01:35:51,735 --> 01:35:53,855
Speaker 9: and train layers haven't been able to. But again, we're

1826
01:35:53,895 --> 01:35:56,695
Speaker 9: going to align that stuff business as usual rights and

1827
01:35:56,735 --> 01:35:58,455
Speaker 9: train layers will be able to sign off their own

1828
01:35:58,495 --> 01:36:00,895
Speaker 9: work in the same way that electricians and gas fitters can,

1829
01:36:01,175 --> 01:36:04,175
Speaker 9: and then in turn builders as well, but in a

1830
01:36:04,175 --> 01:36:05,415
Speaker 9: granny flat context alone.

1831
01:36:05,615 --> 01:36:08,215
Speaker 5: Okay, we're going to come back after the break talk

1832
01:36:08,215 --> 01:36:11,175
Speaker 5: about changes to earthquake strengthening, because I know that's something

1833
01:36:11,215 --> 01:36:13,695
Speaker 5: else that you've been working on, and that's particularly pertinent,

1834
01:36:13,935 --> 01:36:16,095
Speaker 5: I suppose for heritage areas. You know, you think about

1835
01:36:16,135 --> 01:36:18,775
Speaker 5: main Street and an old town, there's a lot of

1836
01:36:18,815 --> 01:36:21,975
Speaker 5: nervousness there and I can see you've got that Oh Crichy,

1837
01:36:22,015 --> 01:36:23,815
Speaker 5: do we have to talk about that look on your face?

1838
01:36:23,815 --> 01:36:25,455
Speaker 5: But we will in just a moment with me in

1839
01:36:25,455 --> 01:36:26,775
Speaker 5: the studio, Chris Pink the Minister.

1840
01:36:27,095 --> 01:36:30,975
Speaker 1: It is eight twenty meta twice God was, But maybe

1841
01:36:31,055 --> 01:36:34,295
Speaker 1: call Pete first, feed your wolfcaf the resident builder news

1842
01:36:34,375 --> 01:36:34,935
Speaker 1: talk sa'd be.

1843
01:36:35,535 --> 01:36:37,455
Speaker 5: If you're into DIY, and you're bound to be because

1844
01:36:37,495 --> 01:36:39,375
Speaker 5: you're listening to me right now. You need to know

1845
01:36:39,575 --> 01:36:42,655
Speaker 5: about the DIY revolution that's been almost fifty years in

1846
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1847
01:36:45,695 --> 01:36:50,055
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1848
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1849
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1850
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1851
01:37:00,135 --> 01:37:03,535
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1852
01:37:03,655 --> 01:37:06,575
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1853
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Speaker 5: you design your kitchen yourself so you get exactly what

1854
01:37:09,175 --> 01:37:12,535
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1855
01:37:12,775 --> 01:37:15,135
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1856
01:37:15,295 --> 01:37:18,815
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1857
01:37:19,295 --> 01:37:23,055
Speaker 5: Installations easy, with excellent instructions, get the kitchen you want,

1858
01:37:23,175 --> 01:37:26,055
Speaker 5: design it yourself, save thousands. That's the kind of KEI

1859
01:37:26,095 --> 01:37:26,855
Speaker 5: we ingenuity.

1860
01:37:26,975 --> 01:37:27,895
Speaker 9: I love you do It.

1861
01:37:28,015 --> 01:37:31,415
Speaker 5: That's Uduit Kitchens that do it for you. Check it

1862
01:37:31,455 --> 01:37:34,815
Speaker 5: out online you doo it dot co, dot nz us

1863
01:37:34,895 --> 01:37:38,175
Speaker 5: dog zb righty oh, we've got a couple of minutes

1864
01:37:38,255 --> 01:37:41,695
Speaker 5: left with the Minister. This is another area I know

1865
01:37:41,775 --> 01:37:44,935
Speaker 5: that you've been heavily involved in. So the question is

1866
01:37:45,215 --> 01:37:47,495
Speaker 5: what is likely to happen to the EQ code. So

1867
01:37:47,575 --> 01:37:51,375
Speaker 5: the earthquake code from the text, our lives have been

1868
01:37:51,415 --> 01:37:53,855
Speaker 5: destroyed by this code and what has been a perfectly

1869
01:37:53,935 --> 01:37:56,695
Speaker 5: safe building that's been strengthened but now could cost us

1870
01:37:56,775 --> 01:38:03,335
Speaker 5: an additional six hundred thousand dollars after contributing some significant amount. Ready,

1871
01:38:03,855 --> 01:38:05,975
Speaker 5: no one can afford this, and most of us are pensions.

1872
01:38:05,975 --> 01:38:09,135
Speaker 5: That's from Chris. So the earthquake rules trying to get

1873
01:38:09,135 --> 01:38:10,975
Speaker 5: buildings up to what is it sixty seven percent of

1874
01:38:11,055 --> 01:38:13,495
Speaker 5: new building code? Is the requirement on a heritage building?

1875
01:38:14,495 --> 01:38:15,135
Speaker 5: Where are we at?

1876
01:38:15,455 --> 01:38:17,895
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean the heritage one is a particular element

1877
01:38:17,975 --> 01:38:21,455
Speaker 9: that complicates matters, but just in general terms, if I'm

1878
01:38:21,455 --> 01:38:23,815
Speaker 9: going to start with the fact that's got a set

1879
01:38:23,855 --> 01:38:26,615
Speaker 9: of rules that came in about ten years ago, and

1880
01:38:26,655 --> 01:38:28,975
Speaker 9: obviously it responded to the tragedy that was the of

1881
01:38:29,095 --> 01:38:31,655
Speaker 9: course earthquakes. And I think no one would disagree with

1882
01:38:31,735 --> 01:38:34,255
Speaker 9: the fact that we need robust rules to ensure that

1883
01:38:34,775 --> 01:38:37,655
Speaker 9: we protect against life safety risk. The reality is, though

1884
01:38:37,815 --> 01:38:41,815
Speaker 9: in the intervening decade, it's become clear that while some

1885
01:38:41,975 --> 01:38:44,815
Speaker 9: work that has able to be taking place has taken

1886
01:38:44,895 --> 01:38:49,895
Speaker 9: place the remaining work that the rules currently require even

1887
01:38:49,975 --> 01:38:52,535
Speaker 9: to get to thirty four percent of this mythical I

1888
01:38:52,535 --> 01:38:57,175
Speaker 9: shouldn't say mythical. This subjective standard news building standard in

1889
01:38:57,335 --> 01:39:01,295
Speaker 9: Bess is a percentage is quite difficult to achieve. And

1890
01:39:01,935 --> 01:39:04,055
Speaker 9: it's not just as though we say, well it costs

1891
01:39:04,055 --> 01:39:07,655
Speaker 9: a lot of money in doing a proportionate analysis of

1892
01:39:08,015 --> 01:39:10,575
Speaker 9: life safety risk versus dollars, it's actually the case that

1893
01:39:10,655 --> 01:39:12,975
Speaker 9: the work's not going to get done because banks won't

1894
01:39:13,055 --> 01:39:16,255
Speaker 9: lend to do the work more than the building's worth

1895
01:39:16,295 --> 01:39:17,935
Speaker 9: in the first place. So we do need to have

1896
01:39:17,935 --> 01:39:19,655
Speaker 9: another look at it. I've had another look at it

1897
01:39:19,735 --> 01:39:23,495
Speaker 9: because we had an independent or rather an expert technical

1898
01:39:23,575 --> 01:39:26,815
Speaker 9: panel look at it chaired independently. That's come back to me.

1899
01:39:26,935 --> 01:39:29,935
Speaker 9: I'm going to recommend to government very soon what the

1900
01:39:30,055 --> 01:39:32,255
Speaker 9: rules should be going forward. And what we want to

1901
01:39:32,295 --> 01:39:34,855
Speaker 9: do is take a proportionate approach where we ask where

1902
01:39:34,935 --> 01:39:37,575
Speaker 9: in the country is the risk actually highest, right, and

1903
01:39:37,655 --> 01:39:39,855
Speaker 9: for example it might be that Northland and Auckland it's

1904
01:39:39,975 --> 01:39:42,695
Speaker 9: relatively low. Yes, yes, everything's relative because you know there

1905
01:39:42,735 --> 01:39:45,615
Speaker 9: could be an earthquake in Auckland tomorrow, but they could

1906
01:39:45,615 --> 01:39:48,895
Speaker 9: also peers in our mirror and so on. So we've

1907
01:39:48,895 --> 01:39:51,135
Speaker 9: also got to think from a philosophical point of view

1908
01:39:51,135 --> 01:39:53,255
Speaker 9: in terms of government, where's our money be spent to

1909
01:39:53,295 --> 01:39:55,215
Speaker 9: save human lives? And it might be that's in our

1910
01:39:55,255 --> 01:39:58,175
Speaker 9: transport system and our public health system. So we want

1911
01:39:58,215 --> 01:40:00,855
Speaker 9: to have a sensible approach to that. And it won't

1912
01:40:00,895 --> 01:40:04,015
Speaker 9: be very long. Your correspondent will hopefully be pleased to

1913
01:40:04,135 --> 01:40:06,455
Speaker 9: know that it will be a matter of weeks that

1914
01:40:06,815 --> 01:40:09,255
Speaker 9: we can provide them all clarity. Yes, it will need

1915
01:40:09,295 --> 01:40:11,455
Speaker 9: a law change, so yes, there will be opportunities for

1916
01:40:11,495 --> 01:40:13,415
Speaker 9: people to say exactly where they think the lines should

1917
01:40:13,415 --> 01:40:15,615
Speaker 9: be drawn. Yeah, but I'm very hopeful we can achieve

1918
01:40:15,655 --> 01:40:17,655
Speaker 9: that between now and next year's election in terms of

1919
01:40:17,735 --> 01:40:20,295
Speaker 9: passing the primary law, even if we then need to

1920
01:40:20,295 --> 01:40:23,455
Speaker 9: have regulations with particular detail about what it means to

1921
01:40:23,935 --> 01:40:26,935
Speaker 9: do a targeted retrofit. For example, it might be, for example,

1922
01:40:26,975 --> 01:40:28,535
Speaker 9: we say, well, actually that is still going to remain

1923
01:40:28,575 --> 01:40:31,575
Speaker 9: in earthquake prime building, but it's a certain intervention you

1924
01:40:31,615 --> 01:40:33,855
Speaker 9: can make. Might just be securing a facade, which is

1925
01:40:33,895 --> 01:40:36,215
Speaker 9: actually the big life safety risk we discovered oftentimes in

1926
01:40:36,295 --> 01:40:38,735
Speaker 9: christ Church. Yes, as opposed to whole building collapse, which

1927
01:40:38,775 --> 01:40:40,975
Speaker 9: as you can imagine as a much more cost effective

1928
01:40:40,975 --> 01:40:42,335
Speaker 9: and quicker way of getting the work.

1929
01:40:42,215 --> 01:40:46,255
Speaker 5: Done because it has had sort of a depressive influence

1930
01:40:46,295 --> 01:40:48,335
Speaker 5: in terms of town centers. Right, So you think about

1931
01:40:48,335 --> 01:40:53,175
Speaker 5: heritage Erry's right across the country, traditional old buildings along

1932
01:40:53,255 --> 01:40:55,695
Speaker 5: the main street, and the occupants and the owners of

1933
01:40:55,735 --> 01:40:58,895
Speaker 5: those buildings facing enormous costs and just going well, look,

1934
01:40:59,135 --> 01:41:01,175
Speaker 5: I can't let it because apparently I'm not allowed to.

1935
01:41:02,215 --> 01:41:04,095
Speaker 5: I don't have the funds to restore it, and so

1936
01:41:04,175 --> 01:41:08,295
Speaker 5: they're falling into disrepair. Absolutely, yeah, and that's a real concern.

1937
01:41:08,335 --> 01:41:10,295
Speaker 9: I think it's a really astute point because actually small

1938
01:41:10,335 --> 01:41:13,255
Speaker 9: town New Zealand and regional New Zealand is actually at

1939
01:41:13,375 --> 01:41:16,935
Speaker 9: least as affected as the likes of Wellington and derasat

1940
01:41:17,015 --> 01:41:19,735
Speaker 9: christ Church. And obviously christ Church is a particular case

1941
01:41:19,775 --> 01:41:23,895
Speaker 9: because they've been through all that already and again we

1942
01:41:24,095 --> 01:41:25,895
Speaker 9: you know, we've got to be respectful of the life

1943
01:41:25,935 --> 01:41:28,175
Speaker 9: safety risk and of course looking backwards of course the

1944
01:41:28,295 --> 01:41:30,375
Speaker 9: human lives that were lost. But I think for small

1945
01:41:30,415 --> 01:41:34,015
Speaker 9: town New Zealand, where whole areas will be hollowed out

1946
01:41:34,175 --> 01:41:37,735
Speaker 9: with derelict building after another not able to be occupied

1947
01:41:38,095 --> 01:41:39,935
Speaker 9: as something we've got to take pretty seriously for the

1948
01:41:40,015 --> 01:41:43,935
Speaker 9: life of regional New Zealand. So do expect some nuance

1949
01:41:44,015 --> 01:41:47,855
Speaker 9: about the types of buildings. Yes, the geographical areas, but

1950
01:41:48,135 --> 01:41:50,095
Speaker 9: even in terms of areas we say, well they are

1951
01:41:50,175 --> 01:41:53,295
Speaker 9: still medium and high. Let's Central or now in North

1952
01:41:53,335 --> 01:41:55,855
Speaker 9: Ireland for example. But nevertheless, it might be that if

1953
01:41:56,095 --> 01:41:59,335
Speaker 9: we don't have skyscrapers, if they're relatively low, and by

1954
01:41:59,335 --> 01:42:01,135
Speaker 9: the way, if they've survived the number of earthquakes in

1955
01:42:01,135 --> 01:42:03,775
Speaker 9: the laste hundred and fifty years, maybe they're actually okay.

1956
01:42:05,375 --> 01:42:07,455
Speaker 5: Just in the last minute that we've got between now

1957
01:42:07,535 --> 01:42:10,375
Speaker 5: and Christmas, what else will we see in terms of

1958
01:42:10,655 --> 01:42:13,335
Speaker 5: changes either you know, to the Building Code, the Building Act.

1959
01:42:14,735 --> 01:42:18,415
Speaker 5: There's a lot that the government has already proposed. Anything

1960
01:42:18,455 --> 01:42:20,335
Speaker 5: else on the drawing board between now and Christmas.

1961
01:42:20,375 --> 01:42:21,615
Speaker 9: But between now and the end of the year, it's

1962
01:42:21,655 --> 01:42:23,855
Speaker 9: mostly about continuing to progress the things that we've already

1963
01:42:23,855 --> 01:42:27,735
Speaker 9: talked about on which work remains underway. It's the details

1964
01:42:27,735 --> 01:42:31,495
Speaker 9: of the liability, it's passing Granny Flat's legislation give into law.

1965
01:42:32,175 --> 01:42:34,655
Speaker 9: The only other major ticket item is the one we've

1966
01:42:34,695 --> 01:42:37,415
Speaker 9: just discussed, which is the earthquake prone building. So do expect,

1967
01:42:37,495 --> 01:42:40,215
Speaker 9: certainly between now and Christmas, maybe even much sooner than that,

1968
01:42:41,055 --> 01:42:43,695
Speaker 9: the change that we'll be able to announce in terms

1969
01:42:43,735 --> 01:42:46,055
Speaker 9: of that, and after that, it's really just sort of

1970
01:42:46,135 --> 01:42:47,855
Speaker 9: making sure we get the EDIL right, executing it.

1971
01:42:48,055 --> 01:42:51,295
Speaker 5: So joined in several liability. That's a slight that'll have

1972
01:42:51,335 --> 01:42:53,975
Speaker 5: a longer tail, won't it that we won't see significant

1973
01:42:54,215 --> 01:42:56,935
Speaker 5: legislative change for twelve months or so, or maybe longer.

1974
01:42:56,975 --> 01:42:59,975
Speaker 9: Well, well within twelve months, will have the law passed?

1975
01:43:00,055 --> 01:43:03,815
Speaker 9: I hope I can expect that will generate, will create

1976
01:43:03,895 --> 01:43:07,015
Speaker 9: such a system, the supporting structures, whereby it might be,

1977
01:43:07,095 --> 01:43:09,095
Speaker 9: for example, eve one needs a certain type of insurance.

1978
01:43:09,935 --> 01:43:13,015
Speaker 9: I think it's reasonable expect a longer lead time period

1979
01:43:13,095 --> 01:43:15,135
Speaker 9: short So it might be that we passed the primary law,

1980
01:43:15,295 --> 01:43:18,295
Speaker 9: and actually, to Mike Thornton's point last week about the

1981
01:43:18,375 --> 01:43:21,015
Speaker 9: legal aspects, it might be that we do the regulations

1982
01:43:21,375 --> 01:43:24,495
Speaker 9: outside the primary legislation, which means, relatively speaking, it's a

1983
01:43:24,535 --> 01:43:26,055
Speaker 9: strike of the pen that can happen in the months

1984
01:43:26,095 --> 01:43:28,335
Speaker 9: following that law change. By the middle last year.

1985
01:43:28,655 --> 01:43:32,455
Speaker 5: Okay, it's a busy time. It'll undoubtedly get busy. I

1986
01:43:32,535 --> 01:43:34,295
Speaker 5: know you're a busy man, because you seem to be

1987
01:43:34,415 --> 01:43:37,855
Speaker 5: at every building event that anyone invites you to, which

1988
01:43:38,215 --> 01:43:40,055
Speaker 5: I know from the sector's point of view, we really

1989
01:43:40,135 --> 01:43:43,055
Speaker 5: appreciate thank you for coming in today, really appreciate it.

1990
01:43:43,055 --> 01:43:45,575
Speaker 5: It's been awesome, so thank you very much.

1991
01:43:45,655 --> 01:43:47,775
Speaker 9: Thanks very much, enjoyed it, thanks to you Union listeners.

1992
01:43:47,815 --> 01:43:50,175
Speaker 5: All right, take care, we'll take a short break. We'll

1993
01:43:50,175 --> 01:43:52,215
Speaker 5: be back with Rudd. We're into the garden in just

1994
01:43:52,295 --> 01:43:54,375
Speaker 5: a moment, doing other.

1995
01:43:54,295 --> 01:43:57,055
Speaker 1: House sorning the garden. Asks Pete for a hand. It's

1996
01:43:57,055 --> 01:44:00,255
Speaker 1: a resident builder with Peter Wolfcamp. Call oh eight hundred

1997
01:44:00,575 --> 01:44:03,815
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty News Dogs Envy for more from the

1998
01:44:03,855 --> 01:44:07,335
Speaker 1: Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp. Listen to News Talk set

1999
01:44:07,415 --> 01:44:10,335
Speaker 1: B on Sunday mornings from six, or follow the podcast

2000
01:44:10,415 --> 01:44:11,335
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.