1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast 2 00:00:10,613 --> 00:00:11,773 Speaker 1: from News Talks a'd be. 3 00:00:12,973 --> 00:00:15,173 Speaker 2: News Talks the'd be. Thank you very much for your text, Jack. 4 00:00:15,253 --> 00:00:17,493 Speaker 2: I personally think people who should continue to who can 5 00:00:17,533 --> 00:00:19,573 Speaker 2: work from home should continue to work from home. After all, 6 00:00:19,613 --> 00:00:22,133 Speaker 2: it's not their job to prop up eateries. I don't 7 00:00:22,133 --> 00:00:23,773 Speaker 2: want to spend two and a half hours a day 8 00:00:23,813 --> 00:00:26,333 Speaker 2: in traffic, nor do I want to pay twelve dollars 9 00:00:26,373 --> 00:00:28,813 Speaker 2: a day to park, says Fiona. Yeah forair cal Fiona, 10 00:00:29,813 --> 00:00:31,573 Speaker 2: I'm with you on that. It isn't your job to 11 00:00:31,773 --> 00:00:35,133 Speaker 2: prop up those cafes and things, although they are doing 12 00:00:35,213 --> 00:00:37,493 Speaker 2: it tough at the moment. But my reading of the 13 00:00:37,573 --> 00:00:40,933 Speaker 2: rules is that under the directives you can still work 14 00:00:40,933 --> 00:00:43,573 Speaker 2: from home. You just have to come to an agreement 15 00:00:43,613 --> 00:00:45,253 Speaker 2: with your employer. Where may you say, you know what, 16 00:00:45,373 --> 00:00:46,933 Speaker 2: Actually I'm going to be able to do the same 17 00:00:47,133 --> 00:00:49,653 Speaker 2: amount of work, if not more, to a higher quality 18 00:00:49,733 --> 00:00:52,013 Speaker 2: from home. Maybe you can look at a flexible option. 19 00:00:52,253 --> 00:00:53,653 Speaker 2: Thank you for that. I'll get tomorrow your feedback in 20 00:00:53,653 --> 00:00:55,973 Speaker 2: a couple of minutes. Kevin Milner is with us this morning. 21 00:00:56,053 --> 00:00:58,813 Speaker 2: Calder Kevin. 22 00:01:00,213 --> 00:01:01,813 Speaker 3: Thoughts on this we Liam. 23 00:01:01,653 --> 00:01:06,053 Speaker 2: Lawson, Oh amazing eh, like, actually actually incredible. I mean, 24 00:01:07,733 --> 00:01:10,253 Speaker 2: the thing is about Formula one. I'm no expert, but 25 00:01:10,493 --> 00:01:12,093 Speaker 2: I've got more and more into it over the last 26 00:01:12,133 --> 00:01:14,133 Speaker 2: couple of years thanks to Drive to Survive, that that 27 00:01:14,253 --> 00:01:17,493 Speaker 2: amazing series on Netflix. And it's pretty clear that most 28 00:01:17,533 --> 00:01:19,213 Speaker 2: of the people, not all of them, but most of 29 00:01:19,253 --> 00:01:21,653 Speaker 2: the people who make it into Formula one make it 30 00:01:21,693 --> 00:01:24,693 Speaker 2: with big money behind them. So either they come from 31 00:01:24,733 --> 00:01:27,813 Speaker 2: a family with really incredible resources, or they happen to 32 00:01:27,853 --> 00:01:30,733 Speaker 2: have relationships with sponsors that are pumping gazillions of dollars 33 00:01:30,733 --> 00:01:33,253 Speaker 2: into Formula one. I don't think anyone is suggesting that 34 00:01:33,293 --> 00:01:36,333 Speaker 2: Liham Lawson, you know, comes comes with the self a 35 00:01:36,373 --> 00:01:38,573 Speaker 2: spoon in his mouth, so he's made it there out 36 00:01:38,613 --> 00:01:41,453 Speaker 2: of shared determination and talent. And I just think that 37 00:01:41,533 --> 00:01:42,333 Speaker 2: is incredible. 38 00:01:42,413 --> 00:01:46,173 Speaker 3: I really do, absolutely brilliant. Yeah. No, and I'm not 39 00:01:46,213 --> 00:01:49,693 Speaker 3: a race I'm not a I'm not a motorhead or yes, no, 40 00:01:50,653 --> 00:01:53,893 Speaker 3: I just I just really admire that guy for his 41 00:01:54,413 --> 00:02:01,013 Speaker 3: for his stickability totally and also obviously is incredible skill. Yeah. 42 00:02:01,173 --> 00:02:05,013 Speaker 2: No, it's quite remarkable. Kevin, You too have been pondering 43 00:02:05,053 --> 00:02:06,893 Speaker 2: where you stand on the work from Debate. 44 00:02:07,173 --> 00:02:09,293 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny, actually isn't it that we both ended 45 00:02:09,333 --> 00:02:13,293 Speaker 3: up with the same topic really today, But and you've 46 00:02:13,333 --> 00:02:15,573 Speaker 3: covered some of it. But yeah, there have been plenty 47 00:02:15,613 --> 00:02:19,653 Speaker 3: of headlines this week about working from home or WFH 48 00:02:19,933 --> 00:02:23,933 Speaker 3: as it's called. Why the abbreviations, Jack, How much quicker 49 00:02:24,453 --> 00:02:28,053 Speaker 3: is it to say WF eight than working from home? 50 00:02:28,253 --> 00:02:31,573 Speaker 3: It's time so precious for you millennials. 51 00:02:32,013 --> 00:02:34,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's not quicker to say it, but 52 00:02:34,573 --> 00:02:36,053 Speaker 2: it is quicker to text it. 53 00:02:36,693 --> 00:02:39,813 Speaker 3: Yees. Yeah, yes, that's right. I knew you were going 54 00:02:39,893 --> 00:02:42,293 Speaker 3: to say that. I'd written all this out and I 55 00:02:42,333 --> 00:02:44,053 Speaker 3: thought I'd have a crack at about that, and I 56 00:02:44,133 --> 00:02:48,693 Speaker 3: suddenly thought texting, Yeah, I know, you're quite right. But anyway, 57 00:02:49,773 --> 00:02:52,293 Speaker 3: there's an old fashioned side of me that says the 58 00:02:52,333 --> 00:02:55,613 Speaker 3: whole working from home things got out of hand necessary 59 00:02:55,773 --> 00:02:59,253 Speaker 3: during COVID, but when COVID ended, we needed to return 60 00:02:59,293 --> 00:03:02,493 Speaker 3: to our workplaces to again work as a team under 61 00:03:02,573 --> 00:03:06,813 Speaker 3: normal supervision with no distractions. Doesn't that have a lovely 62 00:03:06,973 --> 00:03:10,893 Speaker 3: boomer retiree ring about it? Da from someone who doesn't 63 00:03:10,933 --> 00:03:14,733 Speaker 3: have to go into the office anyway. Yeah. On the 64 00:03:14,813 --> 00:03:19,053 Speaker 3: other hand, a significant percentage of the workforce have discovered 65 00:03:19,093 --> 00:03:23,093 Speaker 3: their lives improved by working, a more fulfilling family life, 66 00:03:23,893 --> 00:03:28,133 Speaker 3: cheaper with workout, or not appearing to suffer. So why 67 00:03:28,333 --> 00:03:30,893 Speaker 3: return to the old status quo. I'm a bit split 68 00:03:30,933 --> 00:03:33,293 Speaker 3: on the issue, really, but there's one thing I'm clear 69 00:03:33,333 --> 00:03:36,133 Speaker 3: about and has been mentioned already today. With all the 70 00:03:36,173 --> 00:03:40,053 Speaker 3: talk about the CBD business failures, the seem to suggestion 71 00:03:40,293 --> 00:03:43,493 Speaker 3: this week the government might want some employees back into 72 00:03:43,493 --> 00:03:48,053 Speaker 3: their offices because, among other things, the Central Business District 73 00:03:48,093 --> 00:03:52,453 Speaker 3: needed them. There maybe valid reasons to tell employees to 74 00:03:52,573 --> 00:03:57,013 Speaker 3: return their officers, but surely not just because other businesses 75 00:03:57,093 --> 00:04:01,093 Speaker 3: depend on them central city cafes and bars, or fewer 76 00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:04,453 Speaker 3: people now using the buses and trains. Next we'll be 77 00:04:04,533 --> 00:04:07,213 Speaker 3: hearing that public servants have to go back to wearing 78 00:04:07,293 --> 00:04:11,253 Speaker 3: suits to work to support the dwindling number of local tailers. 79 00:04:12,053 --> 00:04:14,813 Speaker 3: If it turns out COVID showed us a better way 80 00:04:14,853 --> 00:04:18,093 Speaker 3: to work involving a significant level of working from home, 81 00:04:18,373 --> 00:04:20,333 Speaker 3: then it's a leak forward and we need to run 82 00:04:20,373 --> 00:04:24,773 Speaker 3: with it. And sorry that affected businesses and services simply 83 00:04:24,933 --> 00:04:28,893 Speaker 3: have to adjust, just like open plan working and hot 84 00:04:28,973 --> 00:04:31,973 Speaker 3: desking required employees to adjust. 85 00:04:32,413 --> 00:04:35,973 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that, Kevin. I agree 86 00:04:36,013 --> 00:04:38,493 Speaker 2: I wonder if there's just somewhere in the middle of 87 00:04:38,533 --> 00:04:42,453 Speaker 2: all this a bit of a happy medium whereby like 88 00:04:42,533 --> 00:04:45,333 Speaker 2: public sector workers who do work in central Wellington and 89 00:04:45,373 --> 00:04:48,853 Speaker 2: who are commuting from you know, sometimes quite significant distances, 90 00:04:48,893 --> 00:04:51,013 Speaker 2: you know, Masterson or something like that. I wonder if 91 00:04:51,053 --> 00:04:53,893 Speaker 2: there's a happy medium whereby people are in the office 92 00:04:54,173 --> 00:04:55,853 Speaker 2: for a few days a week. So they're in the 93 00:04:55,893 --> 00:04:59,213 Speaker 2: office for three days a week, right, and that means 94 00:04:59,213 --> 00:05:02,493 Speaker 2: that they are also potentially contributing to some of those 95 00:05:02,573 --> 00:05:05,613 Speaker 2: CBD eateries, but they're getting the benefits from being in 96 00:05:05,653 --> 00:05:08,693 Speaker 2: the office, all of the easy communication that comes from 97 00:05:08,733 --> 00:05:11,773 Speaker 2: being in an open plan environment, but then also getting 98 00:05:11,773 --> 00:05:13,373 Speaker 2: the benefit from being able to focus on their work 99 00:05:13,373 --> 00:05:15,013 Speaker 2: at home. And I just wonder if there's a nice 100 00:05:15,013 --> 00:05:18,253 Speaker 2: little kind of if we can thread the needle. And yeah, yeah, 101 00:05:18,493 --> 00:05:21,733 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, because the way I actually looking 102 00:05:21,733 --> 00:05:23,693 Speaker 2: at the detail of those directives, I was like, I 103 00:05:23,693 --> 00:05:26,613 Speaker 2: don't I don't think that this actually changes anything. I 104 00:05:26,653 --> 00:05:32,053 Speaker 2: don't think there will be you know, employers or agencies 105 00:05:32,133 --> 00:05:35,413 Speaker 2: that are automatically saying that you are entitled to work 106 00:05:35,453 --> 00:05:37,693 Speaker 2: from home. Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong on that. Be 107 00:05:37,693 --> 00:05:38,293 Speaker 2: interesting to know. 108 00:05:38,853 --> 00:05:41,933 Speaker 3: I think the government was really telling people. You cannot 109 00:05:42,013 --> 00:05:45,813 Speaker 3: tell the guys that run your company or manage your 110 00:05:45,853 --> 00:05:49,213 Speaker 3: business that you are going to be staying at home. Yeah, 111 00:05:49,333 --> 00:05:52,573 Speaker 3: it has to be negotiated. Yeah, and I think that's 112 00:05:52,653 --> 00:05:55,413 Speaker 3: totally clear. And if they want you to come into 113 00:05:55,413 --> 00:05:58,693 Speaker 3: the office, I'm sorry. That's the way it happens. You 114 00:05:58,773 --> 00:06:02,333 Speaker 3: go into the office, you do what you're told. Yeah. Yeah, 115 00:06:02,413 --> 00:06:06,093 Speaker 3: I like, no, it sounds even older than I really am. 116 00:06:06,413 --> 00:06:09,013 Speaker 2: I think it's pretty really I think it's pretty reasonable 117 00:06:09,013 --> 00:06:10,173 Speaker 2: way and it's pretty common sense. 118 00:06:11,173 --> 00:06:11,733 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 119 00:06:11,733 --> 00:06:14,053 Speaker 2: The only the last thing I will add is that 120 00:06:15,013 --> 00:06:18,013 Speaker 2: it's really clear to me that like that people work 121 00:06:18,573 --> 00:06:22,573 Speaker 2: best in different conditions. So, for example, my wonderful wife, 122 00:06:22,933 --> 00:06:25,653 Speaker 2: she is a total night owl, right, so she kind 123 00:06:25,693 --> 00:06:28,413 Speaker 2: of like starts to get into gear for her working 124 00:06:28,493 --> 00:06:32,053 Speaker 2: day at about four pm, and so that's when she's 125 00:06:32,093 --> 00:06:34,173 Speaker 2: really starting to get most productive. And of course then 126 00:06:34,173 --> 00:06:35,533 Speaker 2: it's like, all right, the day's done, I'm going to 127 00:06:35,613 --> 00:06:38,813 Speaker 2: hit home, you know, whereas I am super productive at 128 00:06:38,853 --> 00:06:41,493 Speaker 2: quarter past seven in the morning. And so we're just 129 00:06:41,573 --> 00:06:43,293 Speaker 2: kind of total opposite ends of the day. And so 130 00:06:43,373 --> 00:06:45,733 Speaker 2: I will often do an hour or two's work from 131 00:06:45,773 --> 00:06:48,173 Speaker 2: home and achieve more like before I go into the 132 00:06:48,173 --> 00:06:50,493 Speaker 2: office and achieve more in that time than I will 133 00:06:50,613 --> 00:06:52,213 Speaker 2: in four hours in the office. 134 00:06:52,293 --> 00:06:52,493 Speaker 3: Yep. 135 00:06:52,653 --> 00:06:54,933 Speaker 2: And you know, it's just yeah, it's it's it's funny. 136 00:06:55,013 --> 00:06:56,813 Speaker 2: I just and I think sometimes, you know, it probably 137 00:06:56,853 --> 00:06:59,813 Speaker 2: requires a little bit of flexibility on behalf of both 138 00:06:59,853 --> 00:07:03,173 Speaker 2: employers and employees. But anyway, I know a lot of 139 00:07:03,173 --> 00:07:04,813 Speaker 2: people will have thoughts on that. Kevin, You're not making 140 00:07:04,813 --> 00:07:06,653 Speaker 2: your way to Wellington tonight for the all, but. 141 00:07:06,853 --> 00:07:09,733 Speaker 3: I certainly am oh good man, Oh yeah, we're I mean, 142 00:07:09,773 --> 00:07:10,333 Speaker 3: I'm up of. 143 00:07:10,253 --> 00:07:13,213 Speaker 2: The rugby good What are you thinking? Because last week, 144 00:07:14,453 --> 00:07:15,973 Speaker 2: you know, I came at the start of the show 145 00:07:16,093 --> 00:07:18,693 Speaker 2: very foolishly made predictions, which is never never a good 146 00:07:18,693 --> 00:07:21,493 Speaker 2: idea when it comes to rugby, and it looked like, actually, 147 00:07:21,533 --> 00:07:26,053 Speaker 2: my my warnings were gonna be heated, if you like, 148 00:07:26,453 --> 00:07:28,213 Speaker 2: by the first ten or fifteen minutes of that game 149 00:07:28,253 --> 00:07:30,533 Speaker 2: when we put what twenty five points on them. But 150 00:07:30,733 --> 00:07:32,893 Speaker 2: things turn out it was a pretty exciting match last week, 151 00:07:32,933 --> 00:07:34,573 Speaker 2: so it's hard hard to really gauge. 152 00:07:35,773 --> 00:07:39,013 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not confident about any of my predictions after 153 00:07:39,093 --> 00:07:44,773 Speaker 3: last night and watching Counties Thrash Thrash Wellington, Yeah, were 154 00:07:44,773 --> 00:07:50,253 Speaker 3: sitting about tenth and the ladder beating the table leaders easily. Honestly, 155 00:07:50,253 --> 00:07:52,533 Speaker 3: they would have beaten the all blacks last night. Counties 156 00:07:52,533 --> 00:07:53,693 Speaker 3: were made nevers. 157 00:07:53,773 --> 00:07:56,893 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was pretty remarkable. I what fifty one twelve? 158 00:07:56,933 --> 00:08:01,213 Speaker 2: I think for the gentle it's kind remarkable. Really, Hey, 159 00:08:01,253 --> 00:08:02,973 Speaker 2: thank you so much, keV. I have a wonderful time 160 00:08:03,053 --> 00:08:04,653 Speaker 2: this evening, and thank you for your feedback as well. 161 00:08:04,733 --> 00:08:04,933 Speaker 3: Jack. 162 00:08:04,973 --> 00:08:09,293 Speaker 2: To assume that business or agencies weren't already discussing specifics 163 00:08:09,333 --> 00:08:11,853 Speaker 2: for working from home as total crap. It was never 164 00:08:11,853 --> 00:08:12,533 Speaker 2: an entitlement. 165 00:08:12,693 --> 00:08:12,813 Speaker 3: Was it? 166 00:08:12,973 --> 00:08:15,733 Speaker 2: Surely that the employer would know if working from home 167 00:08:15,933 --> 00:08:18,453 Speaker 2: or in the office is the most profitable. I suppose 168 00:08:18,493 --> 00:08:21,213 Speaker 2: the question is that, well, some people would say, is 169 00:08:21,253 --> 00:08:24,893 Speaker 2: that if it's a private business, yes, the employer absolutely 170 00:08:24,933 --> 00:08:27,453 Speaker 2: would know whether it's most profitable, But that in the 171 00:08:27,493 --> 00:08:31,773 Speaker 2: public service the drive for productivity might not be quite 172 00:08:31,853 --> 00:08:34,773 Speaker 2: the same as it is in a private business. That 173 00:08:34,853 --> 00:08:36,173 Speaker 2: would be the argument, there, wouldn't it. 174 00:08:36,973 --> 00:08:40,053 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, Listen live 175 00:08:40,133 --> 00:08:43,413 Speaker 1: to newstalks 'b from nine am Saturday, or follow the 176 00:08:43,493 --> 00:08:44,893 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.