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Speaker 1: We all got to see it, the huge spectacle of

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Speaker 1: the weekend between US President Donald Trump, Vice President Jed E.

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Speaker 1: Vance and Ukraine's President Valodimyr Zelensky. I'll take you back there.

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Speaker 1: You're gambling with World War three. You're gambling with World

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Speaker 1: War three, and what you're doing is very disrespectful to

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Speaker 1: the country. This country that's back you far more than

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Speaker 1: a lot of people said they should have. Have you

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Speaker 1: said thank you once.

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Speaker 2: In this entire media said h.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, it was fire. He wasn't it. And President

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Speaker 1: Trump told Zelensky to make a deal with Russia or

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Speaker 1: the US will be out. European leaders are our meeting

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Speaker 1: in London for a summer to discuss an outcome for

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Speaker 1: all of this. They're prepared to give security guarantees. Former

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Speaker 1: US Defense Department official Jeffrey Price joins me now from America.

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Speaker 2: Hello Jeffrey, Good morning and morning everybody who's up so

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Speaker 2: early in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: How's America reacting to what happened? You know, are they

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Speaker 1: are they happy with their president or not? Or is

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Speaker 1: it split a next Like the rest of the.

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Speaker 2: World, there is a bit of a split. Many Republicans

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Speaker 2: are at least publicly defending what the President and Vice

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Speaker 2: President Advance did. But a great many Americans are frankly embarrassed.

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Speaker 2: It was a disaster, no matter how you look at it.

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Speaker 2: And this is the kind of diplomacy that should not

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Speaker 2: be taking place on television exactly. And so I don't

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Speaker 2: think anybody comes out ahead except for the Russians.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about what actually happened to that, because

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Speaker 1: that's the other thing. The analysis of it has got

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Speaker 1: all weird too. So at the basic point of it,

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Speaker 1: President Donald Trump will not agree to a cease fire

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Speaker 1: plan if it includes a security guarantee, and Zelenski demands

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Speaker 1: a security guarantee. So if Trump won't include a security guarantee,

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Speaker 1: does that mean America is out now of both the

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Speaker 1: war and the peace.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. This is so important for the

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Speaker 2: security of Europe, for the security of the world, that

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Speaker 2: we have to come to some resolution here. And the

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Speaker 2: problem is that we're We've got the Americans, we've got

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Speaker 2: the Europeans, we've got the Ukrainians and the Russians. So

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Speaker 2: it's a complicated negotiation. The last time we had something

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Speaker 2: that's similar to me was the war in Bosnia in

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Speaker 2: the nineties when you had different players as well. So

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Speaker 2: Zelenski is going to want to see that any ceasefire

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Speaker 2: does not just allow repeated aggression. There needs to be

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Speaker 2: some deterrence of future Russian aggression in any ceasefire that

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Speaker 2: is likely going to involve Europeans. And the question that's

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Speaker 2: being discussed during the Americans and Europeans and the Ukrainians

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Speaker 2: is is what role the United States might have, say

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Speaker 2: backstopping what will be at the front a European presence

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Speaker 2: that's also being worked out right.

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Speaker 1: So security guarantees guaranteed by Europe, but if a goal

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Speaker 1: got a bit po shaped and Putin still took them on,

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Speaker 1: that America might come back in.

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Speaker 2: So America plays a crucial role even when we're not

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Speaker 2: at the front of a conflict, in logistics and command

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Speaker 2: and control, in intelligence, surveillance. So anytime you have a

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Speaker 2: serious conventional force right now, NATO was organized to have

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Speaker 2: America at the core. When we had the war in Bosnia.

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Speaker 2: It started out with a European force under UN command

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Speaker 2: that did not work. It was replaced by a NATO

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Speaker 2: lead force with a one third American component that did work.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's what people might be thinking about.

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Speaker 2: President Trump is me career. He doesn't want the United

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Speaker 2: States to be in a front role. But to me,

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Speaker 2: any force that's going to be credible and effective is

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Speaker 2: either going to have to be a NATO force or

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Speaker 2: something like a NATO force, even if it's a European

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Speaker 2: pillar in NATO, and.

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Speaker 1: The Europeans are starting to talk about a European force

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Speaker 1: to run in conjunction within a NATO. NATO seems to

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Speaker 1: be completely deempowered. It's a very interesting time, and Jeffrey Price,

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Speaker 1: I thank you so much for your thoughts.

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