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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Simon Barnett and James Daniels Afternoons

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Speaker 1: podcast from News Talk zedb SO.

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Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby Plats Association CEO Rob Nicol has been

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Speaker 2: at the forefront of I guess what's best described as

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Speaker 2: a rather turbulent time for professional rugby. He was originally

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Speaker 2: from Stuart Island. Rob then moved to Auckland, initially working

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Speaker 2: as a police officer before he settled on a teen

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Speaker 2: acre lifestyle block near Porkinal. After laying the law aside

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Speaker 2: the qualified account he was qualified accounting. This guy's done

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Speaker 2: everything He turned his talents to help him run the

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Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby Plats Association. Since his time as CEO,

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Speaker 2: he's navigated, of course, the Silver Lake controversy, governance concerns

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Speaker 2: and eligibility rules on behalf of some of our most

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Speaker 2: well known players. It is a pleasure to welcome Rob

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Speaker 2: nickelon for six and a song. Good a Rob, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: good luck mate. Thank you very much for your time.

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Speaker 3: Hey Rob, obvious question did you play rugby and or

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Speaker 3: did you play it to a high level?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I did play rugby. I went to well because

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Speaker 4: I sort of grow up in Southend and Stirred Island.

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Speaker 4: I ended up going boarding school when I was pretty young,

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Speaker 4: and school was based in South Canterbury and so cricket

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Speaker 4: and rugby were an absolute stable and it kind of

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Speaker 4: became part of our blood, if it made sense. We

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Speaker 4: loved it every single day. We're into it and played

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Speaker 4: all the way through school and a little a little

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Speaker 4: bit here and there after that. So yeah, I love

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Speaker 4: love both sports, love all sports, which I'd been exposed

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Speaker 4: to more sports at that age, to be honest. It

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Speaker 4: was back in those days it was kind of like

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Speaker 4: the core stuff. It was rugby, cricket, maybe tennis. I loved.

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Speaker 4: I loved this feat with so much choice. Nowadays it's

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Speaker 4: so good.

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Speaker 2: You must be delighted then, because I'd imagine when you started,

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Speaker 2: you're still a young man rob by the way, but

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Speaker 2: when you started women's sport, particularly women's rugby, wouldn't really

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Speaker 2: have been the thing. It was almost a laughing stock.

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Speaker 2: And yet now it's right up there, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. I mean when I started playing sports,

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Speaker 4: I was at a preparatory boarding school for boys, and

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Speaker 4: I was at Couldturam Hostel boarding at Southland Boys. So

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Speaker 4: I didn't even know women existed, to be fair, It's

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Speaker 4: kind of like I was institutionalized very early, shall we say,

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Speaker 4: off the boarding score at eight or nine, it's exactly there.

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Speaker 4: And so many other aspects of life, you know, which

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Speaker 4: have become open and more people more understanding and providing

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Speaker 4: access to whether it's disability, all those kind of things,

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Speaker 4: you know, the Paralympics and how fantastic that kind of

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Speaker 4: inspirational kind of movement is and what it does for people.

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Speaker 4: So I just love the fact that there's more available

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Speaker 4: for more and we're constantly pushing the barrow out to

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Speaker 4: make it even better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because the women's rugby thing has really

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Speaker 2: taken off. The World Cup was sensational even for non believers.

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Speaker 2: It suddenly became like this thing. It really gained some

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Speaker 2: massive momentum. I suppose pay and we'll touch on this

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Speaker 2: with the male planers as well, but pay is always

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Speaker 2: going to be an issue and pay parity. Do you

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Speaker 2: think there will come a day when women will get

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Speaker 2: exactly the same our female or backs will get the

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Speaker 2: same pay as the males.

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Speaker 4: You'd like to think, So that's for sure, that's something

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Speaker 4: that's you know, it's one of the things, one of

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Speaker 4: the outcomes we might focus on. It's interesting we launched

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Speaker 4: the Netball Player Association in two thousand and six and

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Speaker 4: so I can assure you the female network players has

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Speaker 4: done a lot better than the male counterparts. We're also

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Speaker 4: a big part of the cricket and watching women's cricket

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Speaker 4: explode frankly around the world has been so good. And

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Speaker 4: before we had that fantastic you know women's rugby Will

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Speaker 4: Cup fifteen's final, we have been treated to an unbelievable

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Speaker 4: evolutions of women's sevens. Watching New Zealand and Australia go

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Speaker 4: head to hear in Commonwealth Games and Olympic Games seven's

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Speaker 4: World final and the female side of the sport is

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Speaker 4: something incredibly special. I swear like some of my top

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Speaker 4: more time rugby experiences have been watching those contests for

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Speaker 4: everything they put on the table, and so I think,

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Speaker 4: my the players and where I see around this is

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Speaker 4: it's happening. It's kind of a wave that's coming and

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Speaker 4: it's welcomed. But what we actually need is we need

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Speaker 4: commercial partners, and we need broadcasters, and we need fans

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Speaker 4: to see the value in it. We need them to

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Speaker 4: engage and want it. Like sports is just been around forever,

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Speaker 4: it will be around forever. It's a great conduit for

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Speaker 4: businesses and people to reach people, market and all that

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff and do good around health and education.

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Speaker 4: We just need all those parties that control those budgets

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Speaker 4: to see the value of women's sport. Once they start

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Speaker 4: seeing there and that it is a great conduit to

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Speaker 4: people to households, then you'll start to see the money

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Speaker 4: flow and then you start to see paperity and all

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Speaker 4: those wonderful things we want to see.

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Speaker 3: So obviously you advocate for the rugby players. Is it

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Speaker 3: only professional rugby players and can you describe what your

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Speaker 3: relationship is with those individuals.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so when we're in terms of the New Zealand

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Speaker 4: Rugby Players Association, it's just professional players. So we're talking

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Speaker 4: kids that leave school and go into a high performance

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Speaker 4: academy right the way through their time. If they're fortunate

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Speaker 4: enough to get a contract into New Zealand to play

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Speaker 4: at EPC level, Opickie level, SUPERB Pacific, the SEVENS program,

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Speaker 4: and then they stay as part of our membership when

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Speaker 4: they go overseas. So we've got four hundred and twenty

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Speaker 4: players playing overseas at the moment, and I think we've

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Speaker 4: got about fifteen hundred retired professional players on our books

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Speaker 4: as well, so it's reasonably substantial in that sense. But

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Speaker 4: it is very much a professional players association, where actually

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Speaker 4: a ridge the trade union, so we negotiate all their

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Speaker 4: keip agreements, etc. So the players themselves are members. They

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Speaker 4: in turn, through a constitutional structor, elect the board and

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Speaker 4: the board and game management team. And I'm part of

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Speaker 4: that management team. So we're you know, for those that

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Speaker 4: are out there, it's the classic representative body of the

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Speaker 4: professional rugby players. And we focus on representation, and we

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Speaker 4: focus on personal development, that concept of self identity and

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Speaker 4: self leadership and growing yourself well beyond sport into a

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Speaker 4: whole lot of other aspects of life and career, and

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Speaker 4: making good decisions, all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Very good. There's been a recent discussion about whether players

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Speaker 2: that apply their trade off sure robs should be eligible

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Speaker 2: for the All Blacks. What's what's your personal view and

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Speaker 2: do you think there will come a time when that happens.

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Speaker 4: My personal view and the view of the players and

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Speaker 4: the majority is that what we have right now is

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Speaker 4: incredibly precious and special to keeping rugby and the rugby

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Speaker 4: professional rugby pathways strong in New Zealand, and to keeping

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Speaker 4: the teams in Black strong. And remember the teams in Black.

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Speaker 4: You know, for a player to have the opportunity to

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Speaker 4: play for those teams is incredibly special. But they mean

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Speaker 4: something to this country that is bigger combat. It's more

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Speaker 4: a part of our identity fabric you go overseas, along

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Speaker 4: with some other very special things about New Zealand. The

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Speaker 4: All Blacks and the All Blacks brand and what rugby

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Speaker 4: stands for for this country is really important. But it's

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Speaker 4: also it's still it has played a huge role and

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Speaker 4: it continues to play a role in shaping our identity

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Speaker 4: and our society and kind of reflects us as a

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Speaker 4: country in a way in terms of and that's the

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Speaker 4: whole idea. So you know, we don't want to lose

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Speaker 4: rugby here. And if you look at every other professional

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Speaker 4: sport in this country, on almost every instance you actually

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Speaker 4: have to leave the country to play your trade, and

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Speaker 4: that would be a tragedy. You know, we've got a

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Speaker 4: really unique opportunity in here. There's a small nation of

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Speaker 4: five million people at the bottom of the world to

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Speaker 4: continue to compete in a global and expanding sport and dominate,

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Speaker 4: and that's what our athletes are incredibly motivated to do,

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Speaker 4: and at the moment we think it's really important that

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Speaker 4: we do that from New Zealand with the players coming

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Speaker 4: through the programs here and pushing each other here and

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Speaker 4: making each other better. Well, one of the things that

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Speaker 4: you never really hear in this debate is that the overseas.

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Speaker 4: The culture around a lot of the overseas clubs, it's

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Speaker 4: not quite It's very intense here about wanting to get

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Speaker 4: better and improve. You've got this legacy of the game

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Speaker 4: on your shoulders, and you've got people watching you and

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Speaker 4: driving you. When you do go overseas, it's a different

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Speaker 4: kind of culture within the professional clubs overseas is not

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Speaker 4: quite that same each to it. You know, for an

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Speaker 4: old and more experienced player to go away, you know

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Speaker 4: that they're going to do what's required to come back

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Speaker 4: and play at the top level. But for a lot

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Speaker 4: of the players still in that path of refining their

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Speaker 4: craft and becoming better and better, we think we can

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Speaker 4: do it better here with the best talent and the

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Speaker 4: best coaches to produce the best national teams, and I

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Speaker 4: think there's that whole side of the equation. So it

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Speaker 4: is where it is at the moment, but we keep

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Speaker 4: an open mind and we're constantly debating it amongst our

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Speaker 4: membership with New Zealand Rugby, with the Super Aby clubs,

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Speaker 4: and we show little pockets of innovation when we firm

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Speaker 4: we have to The final thing I'd say, guys, is

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Speaker 4: that at the last several World Cups and when we

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Speaker 4: started in nineteen ninety nine, but every World Cup always

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Speaker 4: do this thing where we sit down with all Black

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Speaker 4: coaches and say are you happy with the players that

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Speaker 4: you are selecting the squad for this world cut from?

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Speaker 4: And almost inevitably they are. They think they've got the

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Speaker 4: best players available to them to select, and that's probably

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Speaker 4: the barhmater that drives us. As long as we can

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Speaker 4: keep fighting and keeping the best players here, keeping them

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Speaker 4: available to the all Blacks by and large, we think

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Speaker 4: we're in the right space.

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Speaker 2: Well said, good on you. Every Thursday, we'll finished our

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Speaker 2: show with six and the song and a special guest

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Speaker 2: today that man is Rob Nickel, CEO of the Rugby

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Speaker 2: Plans Association. Thank you so much, Rob for chatting with us.

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Speaker 4: It's pleasure I'm enjoining it. Then I hope everyone else is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they are. They are absolutely that text about you.

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Speaker 3: I've got some quick fire questions. Now, you grew up

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Speaker 3: on Stuart Island, and I understand it's beautiful down there,

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Speaker 3: But what's one place you never get tired of Apart

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Speaker 3: from there?

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Speaker 4: I'm going to say in New Zealand, because from the

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Speaker 4: mountains to the sea. Man, it is such a beautiful country.

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Speaker 4: It's culture, it's people, and I guess in a weird

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Speaker 4: kind of way, it's my home right and I'm really

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Speaker 4: grateful to have such a great home. And every now

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Speaker 4: and again you sort of hear and people having to

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Speaker 4: crack about this or that or the economy or whatever,

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Speaker 4: but sometimes just stepping back and just appreciating how blooding

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Speaker 4: this place is it's a good thing to do.

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Speaker 3: I've just been in Bali recently and I I had

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Speaker 3: a good time over there, but by Craigie, it was

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Speaker 3: good to come home.

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Speaker 4: Yeah it is, you know, and we are so lucky,

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Speaker 4: like we can always be better, but this is a

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Speaker 4: this is a real special country and we should be

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Speaker 4: very proud of it.

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Speaker 2: Nicely said, what's one of the nicest compliments you've ever

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Speaker 2: received in your life. Doesn't have to be with the

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Speaker 2: Rugby plays.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I hope only. I don't think about being

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Speaker 4: Matt often I will say my wife's saying, yes, how's that?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good answer, your brown nose.

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Speaker 4: That I kind of like a few people listen to

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Speaker 4: your show apparently and go through my head, was should

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Speaker 4: I be to get the strip? Good?

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Speaker 3: Cal all right, Hey, if you had the power to

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Speaker 3: change any one thing in your world, what would that be?

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Speaker 4: She's good one. I reckon and Jesus could come across

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Speaker 4: quite waffy, but I just want to I would love

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Speaker 4: a situation where no one has denied the opportunity to

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Speaker 4: learn and develop because of their circumstance or background, if

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Speaker 4: you like. Kind of comes down to, like, I am

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Speaker 4: older despite what you've said. Yeah, I'm on the better

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Speaker 4: side of fifty or just around that age. But the

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Speaker 4: value of experience and knowledge, being able to think strategically

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Speaker 4: and logically, having good principles guide you, and being able

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Speaker 4: to listen and ask people questions, you know, like it's

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Speaker 4: so good. But young people don't always Like when I

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Speaker 4: was young, I didn't get that, you know, I didn't

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Speaker 4: understand that, and I wish that everyone kind of got

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Speaker 4: that a hell of a lot earlier. And I suspect

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Speaker 4: if we had that, then people would be better, humans

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Speaker 4: would be better and probably end up with a better place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good opportunity. What's something that when you were young, Rob,

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Speaker 2: you know, fifteen sixteen round there, and you thought, man,

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Speaker 2: that's so important I get this or i'm this that. Now,

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Speaker 2: as a bit more mature, you go, you know what,

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Speaker 2: that wasn't so important.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's another one. And I think this one is like,

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Speaker 4: when I was young, it was always about focusing. I

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Speaker 4: shall sort of focus way too much on the outcome.

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Speaker 4: I was pretty competitive when it came to sports, so

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Speaker 4: it was always about wanting to be the best and

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Speaker 4: wanting to do things well. And I never was. But

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Speaker 4: that's not the point, you know. It was kind of like,

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Speaker 4: you've become so focused down the outcome you missed the

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Speaker 4: big point. And I wish that And I think that

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Speaker 4: you know the thing that I wish I well, I

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Speaker 4: know now is you're way better off being curious and

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Speaker 4: learning and understanding the process is more important. So it's

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Speaker 4: more important to understand who you are, what you stand

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Speaker 4: for and being proud of how you behave and how

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Speaker 4: you go about doing things, so that whatever it is

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Speaker 4: you're presented with, you can look in the mirror at

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Speaker 4: the end of it and say, you know, what, I

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Speaker 4: did the right thing, or I behaved well through that,

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Speaker 4: or I thought of others. And I genuinely think if

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Speaker 4: you get all that kind of stuff right, that the

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Speaker 4: outcome takes care of itself. And so in a way,

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Speaker 4: it's kind of saying when I was younger, it's probably

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Speaker 4: a bit too selfish. Now I understand that it's actually

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Speaker 4: you end up tripping yourself up. You're much better sort

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Speaker 4: of stepping back a bit and taking a different approach here.

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Speaker 2: Excellent, Rob Nichol.

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Speaker 3: What are you most proud of in your life so far?

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Speaker 4: I would say in my family, friends and work colleagues.

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty lucky because they kind of humble me every

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Speaker 4: single day and the work that I do, and with

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Speaker 4: my family and the friends that I have, it's just

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Speaker 4: they all do so well and they constantly are having

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Speaker 4: me with stuff that blows me away, and then you

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Speaker 4: get rid of proud because you're like, it's so nice

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Speaker 4: to know them or to know they've got your respect,

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Speaker 4: and you've got their respect and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 4: So it would definitely be Yeah, my family and friends

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Speaker 4: and work colleagues to be friends.

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Speaker 2: You are a very nice man. Last question, If you

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Speaker 2: could invite any one person in the whole world anywhere,

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Speaker 2: they have to be alive, though, who would you choose

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Speaker 2: to ask around for dinner?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but I reckon I could describe them.

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Speaker 4: So I'm a little bit when it comes to reading

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Speaker 4: books or reading up on things or listening to podcasts,

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Speaker 4: I struggle with that kind of thing. But I love

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Speaker 4: nothing better than sitting down with someone who does a

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Speaker 4: lot of that, and they have wonderful stories that are

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Speaker 4: full of inspiration and knowledge, and they kind of open

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Speaker 4: your mind up, you know, like you listen to something

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Speaker 4: and it stays with you for the days afterwards. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I would have dinner with those type of people.

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Speaker 4: That's who I would want, and I probably need to

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Speaker 4: get out there and meet a few more. I didn't

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Speaker 4: mean that family brings You're all good.

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Speaker 2: No, that's actually an inspired well played Hey. Look, we've

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Speaker 2: really genuinely enjoyed talking with you, Rob, Thank you, and

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Speaker 2: you do sound like such a good man. A top man,

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Speaker 2: So one more thing of you. If you could choose

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Speaker 2: a song for us and tell us which one, which

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Speaker 2: song is it, and why you've chosen, that'd be great.

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, thank you for the compliments, but I'm sure

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Speaker 4: you say that to everyone. No, I don't know the

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Speaker 4: show anyway. Okay, this is a challenge for me because

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Speaker 4: I listened to song. I love music, but I never

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Speaker 4: remember their names or the band or anything. Were useless

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Speaker 4: like that. So I wanted to go with the New

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Speaker 4: Zealand song because I love New Zealand artists. But then

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Speaker 4: I actually went back to when I was at school

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Speaker 4: in the early eighties mid eighties, and we the first

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Speaker 4: bit of music we got exposed to beyond Simon and

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Speaker 4: garfun Collin ever and our cars with our parents was

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Speaker 4: actually John Cougar mellencamp Or And then all of a

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Speaker 4: sudden you two came along and it was like, oh

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Speaker 4: my god, I love you too. And then Joshua Tree

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Speaker 4: came out and the whole boarding hostel I was part

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Speaker 4: of a boarding school. We just loved it like that

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Speaker 4: became our music. So I went back to Joshua Tree

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Speaker 4: and I was having look through the songs again and

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Speaker 4: One Tree Hill came up and it's got this most

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Speaker 4: awesome New Zealand connection. Yeah, Simon, I know you know

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Speaker 4: the story. But basically, when Bono and the band were

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Speaker 4: here for the first time ever, they are out walking

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Speaker 4: late at night, couldn't sleep because of the jet lag.

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Speaker 4: They've bump and some and Kiwis who took them on

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Speaker 4: the tour of the city, and they took them up

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Speaker 4: One Tree Hill in Cornwell Park there and he loved

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Speaker 4: the place. And one of the guys I think his

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Speaker 4: name was Greg Carol maybe yeah, Greg Carol, he was

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Speaker 4: one of the guys and he just helped them out

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Speaker 4: for the rest of the tour. And at the end

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Speaker 4: of the tour, the band managers he had come with

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Speaker 4: us to Dublin and worked with us, and so he

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Speaker 4: did and he became kind of like the guy that

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Speaker 4: just worked around the band. And then tragically he is

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Speaker 4: a motorbike accident and a car takes him out in

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Speaker 4: Dublin and he dies and the band was seriously seriously upset.

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Speaker 4: As you would imagine, the upset was one of the

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Speaker 4: first close people to then lost and so long story short,

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Speaker 4: they came down to the tonguey in New Zealand. I

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Speaker 4: think Bono's song was checking it out the other day,

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Speaker 4: so let it be and knock it on Heaven's door,

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Speaker 4: and the funeral was moving. I think he visited One

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Speaker 4: Tree Hill before he left again. And then they wrote

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Speaker 4: that song and dedicated the album Joshua Tree to Greg

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Speaker 4: cal and his memory, which I thought was pretty special

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Speaker 4: and a cool connect. And I really like the song

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Speaker 4: and I love the band.

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Speaker 2: That's such a well told story. Rob, you are a

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Speaker 2: solid dude. Thank you so much. We're going to play

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Speaker 2: your song all the very best and thanks again for

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Speaker 2: your time.

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Speaker 4: Cheers mate, Thanks both much, and really Rob Nickel.

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Speaker 2: Chief executive of the Rugby Planers Association, this is his song.

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Speaker 2: It has an amazing story behind it, as he mentioned

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Speaker 2: One Tree Hill at News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 1: For more from Simon Barnett and James Daniels afternoons, listen

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Speaker 1: live to News Talks EDB or follow the podcast on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio