1 00:00:03,180 --> 00:00:05,340 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:10,409 --> 00:00:13,569 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of the Work It podcast. 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,049 Speaker 1: It's Tiffany and Gerald, your hosts here to discuss different 4 00:00:17,049 --> 00:00:20,129 Speaker 1: career issues that you are thinking about. We have no 5 00:00:20,129 --> 00:00:22,969 Speaker 1: guest on our show today because this is a topic 6 00:00:22,969 --> 00:00:25,870 Speaker 1: that spun off from our first live stream. But for 7 00:00:25,870 --> 00:00:28,450 Speaker 1: those who didn't catch that episode, the Work It podcast 8 00:00:28,450 --> 00:00:30,889 Speaker 1: went live on CNA's YouTube channel. 9 00:00:31,180 --> 00:00:35,229 Speaker 1: And we spoke to a group of polytechnic students about internships. 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,799 Speaker 1: In one question I remember Gerald, this particular student asked 11 00:00:38,799 --> 00:00:41,439 Speaker 1: if he should do a 9 to 5 job or 12 00:00:41,439 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: just start a business on his 13 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: own. 14 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I remember that question. He was citing drop 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,180 Speaker 2: shipping as one option. Yeah, he said something 16 00:00:48,180 --> 00:00:49,119 Speaker 1: about TikTok, right? 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So maybe it's good for you to go 18 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: and listen, watch that podcast on YouTube because that's where 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,470 Speaker 2: today on this episode, we will break it down for him. 20 00:00:56,639 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. This question is really common, which is better? Is 21 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,790 Speaker 2: it better to work for somebody or is it better 22 00:01:02,790 --> 00:01:05,470 Speaker 2: to do your own business? For me, when I was 23 00:01:05,470 --> 00:01:07,709 Speaker 2: much younger, I always thought that working for someone else 24 00:01:07,709 --> 00:01:09,860 Speaker 2: would be better, but now I'm running my own business. 25 00:01:10,300 --> 00:01:10,629 Speaker 1: So you 26 00:01:10,629 --> 00:01:11,169 Speaker 1: made that jump. 27 00:01:11,349 --> 00:01:13,629 Speaker 2: I made that jump. This kind of shows like our 28 00:01:13,629 --> 00:01:15,830 Speaker 2: thoughts about whether we are supposed to be working for 29 00:01:15,830 --> 00:01:18,529 Speaker 2: others or for ourselves. It does change, right? How about 30 00:01:18,529 --> 00:01:18,669 Speaker 2: for 31 00:01:18,669 --> 00:01:18,869 Speaker 2: you? 32 00:01:19,069 --> 00:01:21,029 Speaker 1: Once upon a time, I wanted to start my own business. 33 00:01:22,269 --> 00:01:24,660 Speaker 1: Yeah, but then I realized that I'm not actually very 34 00:01:24,660 --> 00:01:27,449 Speaker 1: good with numbers. Yeah, so the accounting part of it 35 00:01:27,779 --> 00:01:29,739 Speaker 1: was a good wake up call. I think that's the 36 00:01:29,739 --> 00:01:32,540 Speaker 1: thing that people don't realize. They think that oh you 37 00:01:32,540 --> 00:01:35,610 Speaker 1: find something that you are interested in, you jump into it, 38 00:01:35,819 --> 00:01:38,459 Speaker 1: but then running a business is different, right? It's more 39 00:01:38,459 --> 00:01:41,739 Speaker 1: than just the product that you're putting out. You have 40 00:01:41,739 --> 00:01:44,099 Speaker 1: to think about the how do you make sure your 41 00:01:44,099 --> 00:01:47,059 Speaker 1: finances are correct, your books are in order because you 42 00:01:47,059 --> 00:01:49,459 Speaker 1: need to make sure that you pay your taxes, things 43 00:01:49,459 --> 00:01:50,599 Speaker 1: like that, right? And then you have to 44 00:01:50,647 --> 00:01:54,037 Speaker 1: Think about your stuff. After a while, maybe it's not 45 00:01:54,037 --> 00:01:56,916 Speaker 1: so much about the product itself, it's about just running 46 00:01:56,916 --> 00:01:59,677 Speaker 1: a business. So all of that didn't really excite 47 00:01:59,677 --> 00:01:59,836 Speaker 1: me. 48 00:01:59,876 --> 00:02:01,677 Speaker 2: So you have the business idea but the thought of 49 00:02:01,677 --> 00:02:03,556 Speaker 2: running this whole thing just got to you. 50 00:02:03,796 --> 00:02:06,677 Speaker 1: Yeah, so now I know that I enjoy the testing 51 00:02:06,677 --> 00:02:10,296 Speaker 1: of ideas. I enjoy creating things, but I like the 52 00:02:10,296 --> 00:02:12,636 Speaker 1: stability of doing it in my 9 to 53 00:02:12,636 --> 00:02:13,596 Speaker 2: 5. Now hearing. 54 00:02:13,774 --> 00:02:16,934 Speaker 2: say this, I also do miss the 9 to 5 55 00:02:16,934 --> 00:02:19,453 Speaker 2: being on a full-time job, you've got the benefits, you 56 00:02:19,453 --> 00:02:21,934 Speaker 2: got your colleagues, you can go to lunch with, you 57 00:02:21,934 --> 00:02:24,294 Speaker 2: can tell them all your problems and then most important thing, 58 00:02:24,333 --> 00:02:26,774 Speaker 2: you don't have to worry so much about whether the 59 00:02:26,774 --> 00:02:29,414 Speaker 2: business is going to stay afloat. There's a lot less stress, 60 00:02:29,453 --> 00:02:31,973 Speaker 2: you can switch off work a bit easier, but I 61 00:02:31,973 --> 00:02:33,973 Speaker 2: do know that there is this pros and cons to 62 00:02:33,973 --> 00:02:36,714 Speaker 2: both sides. I also know of many mid-career people who 63 00:02:36,951 --> 00:02:40,470 Speaker 2: Somehow after being retrenched or being let go, they find 64 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:43,141 Speaker 2: that they had to become entrepreneurs, so they had no choice. 65 00:02:43,421 --> 00:02:45,910 Speaker 2: So it's not just people who are passionate about something 66 00:02:45,910 --> 00:02:47,710 Speaker 2: and then they start a business, right? Correct, correct. 67 00:02:47,830 --> 00:02:50,190 Speaker 1: That's why today we want to talk about what does 68 00:02:50,190 --> 00:02:53,269 Speaker 1: it really take to go solo, to be your own entrepreneur? 69 00:02:53,391 --> 00:02:56,391 Speaker 1: What are the trade-offs and what should you weigh both 70 00:02:56,391 --> 00:03:00,791 Speaker 1: practically and emotionally before quitting your job. Let's break it down. 71 00:03:00,910 --> 00:03:03,591 Speaker 1: I'm actually very curious for people who don't know much 72 00:03:03,591 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: about you and I. 73 00:03:05,258 --> 00:03:07,070 Speaker 1: What made you decide that you were going to go 74 00:03:07,070 --> 00:03:09,860 Speaker 1: from a 9 to 5 to start your own business? 75 00:03:10,029 --> 00:03:12,710 Speaker 2: Simply because I think I can do something better, I 76 00:03:12,710 --> 00:03:14,789 Speaker 2: can create a better service. I have an idea for 77 00:03:14,788 --> 00:03:17,690 Speaker 2: a better product. I've tested it and I think it works. 78 00:03:17,869 --> 00:03:20,149 Speaker 2: So it's the belief that you can offer something of 79 00:03:20,149 --> 00:03:23,668 Speaker 2: value to somebody else to solve a problem. So the 80 00:03:23,669 --> 00:03:26,109 Speaker 2: process for me was there was a prototyping stage, a 81 00:03:26,110 --> 00:03:29,429 Speaker 2: proof of concept stage before I really felt that OK, 82 00:03:29,630 --> 00:03:32,029 Speaker 2: this is viable, and then of course then we consider 83 00:03:32,029 --> 00:03:34,919 Speaker 2: the practicalities, right, the financial side to 84 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,839 Speaker 2: Make an informed decision whether should we go into running 85 00:03:37,839 --> 00:03:39,029 Speaker 2: our own business or not. What 86 00:03:39,029 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 1: was that duration? How long did it take for you 87 00:03:41,839 --> 00:03:45,279 Speaker 1: to go from having not really a real firm idea 88 00:03:45,279 --> 00:03:46,949 Speaker 1: to actually starting a business? So 89 00:03:46,949 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: the scope of work I'm in is career services, right, 90 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,919 Speaker 2: career counseling. So I was doing this in the company 91 00:03:52,919 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: for a good maybe 12 years. So I took about 92 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,839 Speaker 2: 2 years to take what I know, see the gaps 93 00:03:57,839 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: in the market, and then try to see how can 94 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,470 Speaker 2: I create something better. 95 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:01,039 Speaker 1: That leads 96 00:04:01,039 --> 00:04:04,610 Speaker 1: me to my next question, which is who can be 97 00:04:04,610 --> 00:04:04,889 Speaker 1: an 98 00:04:04,970 --> 00:04:08,690 Speaker 1: Entrepreneur. So do you believe that anyone can be an entrepreneur? 99 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: It's not up to one person to grow a business. 100 00:04:11,169 --> 00:04:14,009 Speaker 2: It's usually a team, a group of people who come 101 00:04:14,009 --> 00:04:16,010 Speaker 2: together to make things work. So like for me, I 102 00:04:16,010 --> 00:04:19,510 Speaker 2: cannot say that I'm an entrepreneur because I'm good. That 103 00:04:19,730 --> 00:04:21,609 Speaker 2: the only reason why I can be an entrepreneur is 104 00:04:21,609 --> 00:04:24,250 Speaker 2: because I have processors, I have people who help me, 105 00:04:24,290 --> 00:04:27,089 Speaker 2: who support me in doing what I'm doing. Yeah. But 106 00:04:27,089 --> 00:04:29,099 Speaker 2: some people, of course, they say some people are born 107 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:31,849 Speaker 2: to be entrepreneurs, right? And then there's a personality aspect 108 00:04:31,850 --> 00:04:34,859 Speaker 2: to it, possibly. I've often spoken to people. 109 00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:37,950 Speaker 2: If the entrepreneur and I'll ask them, your family, what 110 00:04:37,950 --> 00:04:40,429 Speaker 2: does your father, your grandfather do, then very often they 111 00:04:40,428 --> 00:04:42,869 Speaker 2: say they come from a line of entrepreneurs 112 00:04:42,869 --> 00:04:43,149 Speaker 1: they 113 00:04:43,149 --> 00:04:45,589 Speaker 1: see that before them and they are used to the 114 00:04:45,589 --> 00:04:48,470 Speaker 1: idea or they know they have learned the lessons, whether 115 00:04:48,470 --> 00:04:51,750 Speaker 1: at the dinner table, maybe grandfather or the parents would say, oh, 116 00:04:51,829 --> 00:04:53,859 Speaker 1: we did this and we shouldn't be doing this again. 117 00:04:53,950 --> 00:04:55,899 Speaker 1: So pick up all these things even from a young 118 00:04:55,899 --> 00:04:56,269 Speaker 1: age. 119 00:04:56,670 --> 00:04:59,390 Speaker 2: It's just for example, you look at doctors, right? Dos 120 00:04:59,390 --> 00:05:01,868 Speaker 2: and people will healthcare, if you ask them about their family. 121 00:05:02,019 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: Very often you see that they have family that works 122 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,399 Speaker 2: in healthcare. Yeah, I'm not saying this is for everyone, 123 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,988 Speaker 2: but there is some correlation. I see, 124 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,329 Speaker 1: yeah, because I recently listened to a podcast where Kevin O'Leary, 125 00:05:12,380 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: he's an entrepreneur and he's an investor on Shark Tank. 126 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: So that's a very popular show in America and he 127 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,119 Speaker 1: was asked what he thought about if everyone can be 128 00:05:21,119 --> 00:05:23,070 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur as long as you have a good idea. 129 00:05:23,359 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: He actually said that he believes that only a third 130 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: of people can become entrepreneurs, 13. 131 00:05:29,130 --> 00:05:30,859 Speaker 1: And those who say that they have a very good 132 00:05:30,859 --> 00:05:34,619 Speaker 1: business idea, only 2/3 will follow through with that idea. 133 00:05:34,950 --> 00:05:38,570 Speaker 1: And then when you whier it down to successful entrepreneurs 134 00:05:38,570 --> 00:05:41,649 Speaker 1: or successful people who run their own business, then I 135 00:05:41,649 --> 00:05:43,619 Speaker 1: think there's maybe even 1 in a million. 136 00:05:43,690 --> 00:05:43,890 Speaker 2: I 137 00:05:43,890 --> 00:05:47,089 Speaker 2: think the key is in execution, is in implementation. A 138 00:05:47,089 --> 00:05:50,170 Speaker 2: good idea remains a good idea unless it gets implemented 139 00:05:50,170 --> 00:05:53,209 Speaker 2: properly and implementation takes a team. You don't do it 140 00:05:53,209 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: by yourself, you need to have a network of suppliers, customers, 141 00:05:56,850 --> 00:05:59,450 Speaker 2: your partners, everybody needs to come together around that to 142 00:05:59,450 --> 00:06:00,130 Speaker 2: make it happen. 143 00:06:00,529 --> 00:06:02,578 Speaker 2: When I was in school, business school, one of the 144 00:06:02,579 --> 00:06:06,260 Speaker 2: professors there teaching entrepreneurship will always tell us that as entrepreneurs, 145 00:06:06,299 --> 00:06:08,100 Speaker 2: we have all these good ideas and we hold them 146 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:10,019 Speaker 2: to ourselves. We think that if we tell this idea 147 00:06:10,019 --> 00:06:13,019 Speaker 2: to someone else, they will still idea, right? But he 148 00:06:13,019 --> 00:06:14,928 Speaker 2: said the best way to do this is to tell. 149 00:06:16,350 --> 00:06:19,380 Speaker 1: you test your ideas, you get people to give you feedback, 150 00:06:19,459 --> 00:06:20,420 Speaker 1: people to challenge 151 00:06:20,420 --> 00:06:20,690 Speaker 1: you. 152 00:06:20,779 --> 00:06:23,489 Speaker 2: Yes, correct. So when people offer a point of view 153 00:06:23,488 --> 00:06:25,700 Speaker 2: and then they try to break down your idea, then. 154 00:06:25,803 --> 00:06:28,594 Speaker 2: where you improve the process, right? Instead of holding it 155 00:06:28,595 --> 00:06:30,674 Speaker 2: to yourself. And of course, as you share with more people, 156 00:06:30,714 --> 00:06:33,554 Speaker 2: you also find like-minded people who will support you, who 157 00:06:33,553 --> 00:06:36,274 Speaker 2: will come alongside with you to grow this idea into 158 00:06:36,274 --> 00:06:38,674 Speaker 2: perhaps a pilot, a proof of concept. So I think 159 00:06:38,954 --> 00:06:42,274 Speaker 2: this thing about entrepreneurship, it really starts with us finding 160 00:06:42,274 --> 00:06:45,954 Speaker 2: the right like-minded people to bring this idea into implementation. 161 00:06:46,209 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: But also I think a lot of younger people will 162 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,559 Speaker 1: have certain perceptions about being an entrepreneur, just running your 163 00:06:52,559 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: own business. It sounds like, oh, it'll be quite exciting. 164 00:06:55,959 --> 00:06:56,079 Speaker 1: So 165 00:06:56,079 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: Tiffany, what's so exciting to you about running your own business? Yeah, 166 00:06:59,040 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: so 167 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,079 Speaker 1: I think the exciting part is that you are your 168 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:03,079 Speaker 1: own boss. So you don't have to deal with the 169 00:07:03,079 --> 00:07:06,559 Speaker 1: office drama, you don't have to deal with politics and 170 00:07:06,559 --> 00:07:08,269 Speaker 1: being your own boss allows you to 171 00:07:08,988 --> 00:07:10,070 Speaker 1: Tell people what to do. 172 00:07:10,329 --> 00:07:10,350 Speaker 2: OK, 173 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,269 Speaker 2: is that true? I'm thinking about what you said, 174 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:15,829 Speaker 1: right? You are laughing because you tell people 175 00:07:15,829 --> 00:07:16,209 Speaker 1: what to do. 176 00:07:16,350 --> 00:07:18,309 Speaker 2: As an entrepreneur, you often find that you're at the 177 00:07:18,309 --> 00:07:22,279 Speaker 2: bottom of the chain. Everybody tells you what to do 178 00:07:22,279 --> 00:07:24,109 Speaker 2: because you have to make the business work, right? Your 179 00:07:24,109 --> 00:07:27,390 Speaker 2: customers become your boss, your partner becomes your boss. Everybody 180 00:07:27,390 --> 00:07:29,910 Speaker 2: becomes your boss. You have very little say. And in fact, 181 00:07:29,989 --> 00:07:32,339 Speaker 2: it's so difficult to find people who want to join, 182 00:07:32,709 --> 00:07:35,489 Speaker 2: start up a new business. So very often you are 183 00:07:35,489 --> 00:07:36,429 Speaker 2: more invested in them. 184 00:07:36,829 --> 00:07:39,309 Speaker 2: And you care about what they do and now you 185 00:07:39,309 --> 00:07:41,190 Speaker 2: do what they don't want to do. So explain that 186 00:07:41,190 --> 00:07:42,779 Speaker 2: to me, what do you mean? For example, you hire 187 00:07:42,779 --> 00:07:44,940 Speaker 2: people to take care of certain portfolios of the business. 188 00:07:45,350 --> 00:07:47,739 Speaker 2: And then you find out that the leftover work that's 189 00:07:47,739 --> 00:07:50,489 Speaker 2: not being done by them has covered by you. Yes, yes. 190 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:53,459 Speaker 2: So I do think that when you say you have 191 00:07:53,459 --> 00:07:56,660 Speaker 2: more flexibility, you report to yourself, right? I think there's 192 00:07:56,660 --> 00:08:00,500 Speaker 2: a lot of chaos. It's too flexible. Yes, you don't 193 00:08:00,500 --> 00:08:02,809 Speaker 2: have people to report to, but at the same time, 194 00:08:02,980 --> 00:08:05,420 Speaker 2: you realize that you're so dependent on everybody else. 195 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:07,390 Speaker 1: I think that being dependent on 196 00:08:07,442 --> 00:08:10,153 Speaker 1: People also a bit of a double-edged sword, right? Because 197 00:08:10,592 --> 00:08:13,352 Speaker 1: you are investing so much in these people and at 198 00:08:13,352 --> 00:08:16,153 Speaker 1: some point they are almost like a family, but if 199 00:08:16,153 --> 00:08:18,433 Speaker 1: people decide that I don't really want to work in 200 00:08:18,433 --> 00:08:20,752 Speaker 1: this business anymore, I want to maybe either start up 201 00:08:20,752 --> 00:08:23,513 Speaker 1: my own company or I go and work for a competitor. 202 00:08:23,632 --> 00:08:26,912 Speaker 1: When they leave, do you feel like the betrayal hits harder? 203 00:08:26,993 --> 00:08:27,393 Speaker 2: So I think 204 00:08:27,393 --> 00:08:29,393 Speaker 2: the context of what we are speaking about is small business. 205 00:08:29,536 --> 00:08:31,765 Speaker 2: Businesses, so we're not talking about a person who has 206 00:08:31,765 --> 00:08:33,505 Speaker 2: a lot of money, open a very big company, 100 207 00:08:33,505 --> 00:08:34,406 Speaker 2: hundreds of people, 208 00:08:34,486 --> 00:08:35,405 Speaker 1: most people start with 209 00:08:35,405 --> 00:08:36,325 Speaker 1: small businesses, 210 00:08:36,405 --> 00:08:38,486 Speaker 2: yeah. So the first batch of people that join you 211 00:08:38,486 --> 00:08:40,046 Speaker 2: often they are exactly what you say they are like 212 00:08:40,046 --> 00:08:43,445 Speaker 2: family and eventually if they do leave, there is the 213 00:08:43,445 --> 00:08:46,526 Speaker 2: sense that you're losing somebody of value. You train this 214 00:08:46,526 --> 00:08:48,684 Speaker 2: person so much, this person is so much part of 215 00:08:48,684 --> 00:08:51,526 Speaker 2: your operations, in fact, doing multiple things, not just one thing. 216 00:08:51,809 --> 00:08:53,309 Speaker 2: And you're losing a very big part of the company. 217 00:08:53,349 --> 00:08:56,150 Speaker 2: So I would say business impact is one, then personal 218 00:08:56,150 --> 00:08:58,030 Speaker 2: investment and how you feel is another one. 219 00:08:58,190 --> 00:08:58,710 Speaker 1: It's very 220 00:08:58,710 --> 00:08:59,750 Speaker 1: hard not to feel this thing, 221 00:08:59,799 --> 00:09:02,390 Speaker 2: right? Yes, we work with freelancers, quite a lot of them, 222 00:09:02,429 --> 00:09:05,229 Speaker 2: and of course, there's no binding agreement for you to 223 00:09:05,229 --> 00:09:07,229 Speaker 2: be loyal to the company. You know, for me as 224 00:09:07,229 --> 00:09:10,390 Speaker 2: a business owner, that's how I really upfront manage this 225 00:09:10,390 --> 00:09:12,710 Speaker 2: expectation that they will one day leave and then the 226 00:09:12,710 --> 00:09:14,510 Speaker 2: only thing that I hope for them is when they 227 00:09:14,510 --> 00:09:16,380 Speaker 2: leave is that they will do a good job outside 228 00:09:16,690 --> 00:09:19,109 Speaker 2: because they are carrying our brand, they are carrying the 229 00:09:19,109 --> 00:09:21,190 Speaker 2: know-how of what we do into another space, right? 230 00:09:21,609 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: This thing about working together in a small business, having 231 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: more relationships with each other, I think it's very true. 232 00:09:28,489 --> 00:09:30,770 Speaker 2: But as an entrepreneur, you got to think about the pay, 233 00:09:30,809 --> 00:09:32,919 Speaker 2: you got to think of all the employment obligations. 234 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:34,929 Speaker 2: You got to think of how long they are going 235 00:09:34,929 --> 00:09:38,460 Speaker 2: to be with you. So this is why many people 236 00:09:38,460 --> 00:09:40,700 Speaker 2: don't actually start a business like 237 00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:41,059 Speaker 2: yourself 238 00:09:41,059 --> 00:09:42,979 Speaker 1: because there's too much to think about. I think one 239 00:09:42,979 --> 00:09:45,190 Speaker 1: of the things that I do enjoy about having a 240 00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:48,659 Speaker 1: 9 to 5 is the financial stability. When you start 241 00:09:48,659 --> 00:09:51,429 Speaker 1: a business, naturally you want to try and pour your 242 00:09:51,429 --> 00:09:54,340 Speaker 1: savings into your business or when you make profit. 243 00:09:54,719 --> 00:09:57,718 Speaker 1: and you have people who are working for you, you 244 00:09:57,719 --> 00:10:00,359 Speaker 1: would want to share that profit with them first. So 245 00:10:00,359 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: is it true that it is really financially so much 246 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: less secure being an entrepreneur than getting a full-time job 247 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: and at which point do you feel, OK, I can 248 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,159 Speaker 1: take a deep breath and I can actually bring home 249 00:10:14,159 --> 00:10:16,609 Speaker 1: some money where my wife is not going to ask 250 00:10:16,609 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: why this month only 1000 251 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:18,750 Speaker 1: dollars. 252 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,929 Speaker 2: Last time when I was working, I often heard people 253 00:10:20,929 --> 00:10:21,359 Speaker 2: say that. 254 00:10:21,770 --> 00:10:24,099 Speaker 2: If I can only find a job, I work for myself, right, 255 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,218 Speaker 2: I can get higher per hour. my value, my time 256 00:10:27,219 --> 00:10:29,539 Speaker 2: is being used to generate more revenue rather than work 257 00:10:29,539 --> 00:10:31,380 Speaker 2: for somebody and I take a cut of it. I 258 00:10:31,380 --> 00:10:33,968 Speaker 2: see as when you do your own business, you have 259 00:10:33,969 --> 00:10:36,098 Speaker 2: to put up with a lot of uncertainty about your 260 00:10:36,099 --> 00:10:39,140 Speaker 2: income and of course, the first few years is the hardest. 261 00:10:39,340 --> 00:10:41,900 Speaker 2: You have to find alternative source of income to just 262 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:43,929 Speaker 2: to supplement or to make up for what you need 263 00:10:44,140 --> 00:10:46,359 Speaker 2: at the very beginning, right? If you want to make it, 264 00:10:46,380 --> 00:10:49,289 Speaker 2: you probably have to sustain yourself for at least 265 00:10:49,354 --> 00:10:51,335 Speaker 2: 3 to 4 years and maybe by the 5th or 266 00:10:51,335 --> 00:10:52,184 Speaker 1: 6 years. 267 00:10:53,215 --> 00:10:53,335 Speaker 2: I 268 00:10:53,335 --> 00:10:55,734 Speaker 2: think around the 5th, 6, 7th year, then that's where 269 00:10:55,734 --> 00:10:59,734 Speaker 2: you start to see things changing, things becoming maybe better. 270 00:10:59,854 --> 00:11:00,294 Speaker 1: Fingers 271 00:11:00,294 --> 00:11:02,174 Speaker 1: crossed fingers crossed, your business is 272 00:11:02,174 --> 00:11:02,895 Speaker 1: viable. Yeah, 273 00:11:02,994 --> 00:11:05,255 Speaker 2: at that point, if today at 67 year mark, you 274 00:11:05,255 --> 00:11:08,375 Speaker 2: find that it's not viable anymore. You look at your finances, 275 00:11:08,385 --> 00:11:11,655 Speaker 2: your revenue has been struggling or dipping, then maybe that's 276 00:11:11,655 --> 00:11:14,155 Speaker 2: where you realize that should you continue doing this anymore 277 00:11:14,155 --> 00:11:16,905 Speaker 2: or should you go back to a full-time job because 278 00:11:17,270 --> 00:11:20,380 Speaker 2: It's also opportunity cost. You could spend the time working 279 00:11:20,380 --> 00:11:23,299 Speaker 2: somewhere else, building your retirement nest, your savings 280 00:11:23,299 --> 00:11:23,459 Speaker 2: up. 281 00:11:23,539 --> 00:11:26,020 Speaker 1: All the employers might actually also go, it looks like 282 00:11:26,020 --> 00:11:28,570 Speaker 1: you have been stuck in a business that didn't quite 283 00:11:28,570 --> 00:11:31,098 Speaker 1: work out. They might start asking questions if you want 284 00:11:31,099 --> 00:11:33,530 Speaker 1: to come back to the workforce. We talked about this 285 00:11:33,530 --> 00:11:36,218 Speaker 1: before in another podcast where you can spin it in 286 00:11:36,219 --> 00:11:39,140 Speaker 1: such a way where it's valuable for your next employer 287 00:11:39,140 --> 00:11:40,780 Speaker 1: to look at this part of your experience, but I 288 00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:41,859 Speaker 1: guess your self-esteem. 289 00:11:42,155 --> 00:11:43,984 Speaker 1: your ego, all of that will take a big hit. 290 00:11:44,155 --> 00:11:47,834 Speaker 1: I'm curious though, should you take money from your friends 291 00:11:47,835 --> 00:11:50,314 Speaker 1: and family to invest in your business at the start? 292 00:11:50,395 --> 00:11:54,184 Speaker 1: Some people say yes, because it makes you more driven 293 00:11:54,184 --> 00:11:58,284 Speaker 1: to pay back the money. Some people say no, because 294 00:11:58,765 --> 00:12:01,395 Speaker 1: what if your business fails, then there goes the relationship 295 00:12:01,395 --> 00:12:01,914 Speaker 1: that you have. 296 00:12:01,994 --> 00:12:05,135 Speaker 2: I think this really depends on the relationship. Honestly, it's 297 00:12:05,135 --> 00:12:06,554 Speaker 2: like how comfortable are you? 298 00:12:06,950 --> 00:12:09,830 Speaker 2: With handling the relationships and setting the expectations of how 299 00:12:09,830 --> 00:12:12,349 Speaker 2: the money is being used, right? Some people lend you 300 00:12:12,349 --> 00:12:14,950 Speaker 2: the money because they want some returns, some people give 301 00:12:14,950 --> 00:12:18,150 Speaker 2: you because they want to maybe just donate or contribute 302 00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:22,349 Speaker 2: to your success. It's important to clarify the expectations. For me, 303 00:12:22,750 --> 00:12:24,369 Speaker 2: I belong to the school of I got to earn 304 00:12:24,369 --> 00:12:27,239 Speaker 2: my own. So it's like not taking money right would 305 00:12:27,239 --> 00:12:30,289 Speaker 2: be a way to motivate me to make things work 306 00:12:30,289 --> 00:12:33,890 Speaker 2: rather than depending on money from family, friends, or even 307 00:12:33,890 --> 00:12:37,489 Speaker 2: from grants from government. I find that sometimes grants, they 308 00:12:37,489 --> 00:12:39,369 Speaker 2: help you get started. It could also be just be 309 00:12:39,369 --> 00:12:43,650 Speaker 2: prolonging the revenue finding path because you're not hungry enough 310 00:12:43,650 --> 00:12:45,729 Speaker 2: to really go and seek out what you need to 311 00:12:45,729 --> 00:12:48,489 Speaker 2: seek out. So it extends it, you will eventually find 312 00:12:48,489 --> 00:12:49,329 Speaker 2: the money lah, but 313 00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:53,059 Speaker 2: It's a bit longer. Just now you mentioned about employers 314 00:12:53,059 --> 00:12:56,580 Speaker 2: and how they see entrepreneurs applying for jobs. Very often 315 00:12:56,580 --> 00:12:58,940 Speaker 2: I realize that employers, when they see someone with a 316 00:12:58,940 --> 00:13:03,299 Speaker 2: resume with entrepreneurship, there is a sense of worry, maybe, 317 00:13:03,419 --> 00:13:05,380 Speaker 2: for example, are you going to stay? 318 00:13:05,669 --> 00:13:08,250 Speaker 2: Are you going to steal my IP or more importantly, 319 00:13:08,330 --> 00:13:10,450 Speaker 2: are you going to fit in? Because you're so used 320 00:13:10,450 --> 00:13:13,210 Speaker 2: to having people work under you. Are you able to 321 00:13:13,210 --> 00:13:13,569 Speaker 2: be a team 322 00:13:13,570 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: player now? 323 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:16,429 Speaker 1: I never thought about that. I was thinking whether or 324 00:13:16,429 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: not you are seen as a failure. 325 00:13:18,530 --> 00:13:22,489 Speaker 2: And an employer interviewing someone and interviews an entrepreneur, the 326 00:13:22,489 --> 00:13:25,210 Speaker 2: question will be fit, are you able to fall in 327 00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:28,130 Speaker 2: place with my policies? Would you be able to take 328 00:13:28,130 --> 00:13:28,890 Speaker 2: my supervision? 329 00:13:29,380 --> 00:13:31,669 Speaker 2: Would you be able to work with the other people? 330 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,409 Speaker 2: And sometimes if these entrepreneurs are a little bit older, 331 00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:37,659 Speaker 2: and it becomes even harder to convince. If today you 332 00:13:37,659 --> 00:13:40,650 Speaker 2: are in that situation, then it's really about to explain 333 00:13:40,650 --> 00:13:42,500 Speaker 2: to the employer why you decided to drop out of 334 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:45,020 Speaker 2: the entrepreneurship race and really show that you can fit 335 00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:48,738 Speaker 2: in by giving examples of how you have been collaborating 336 00:13:48,739 --> 00:13:50,429 Speaker 2: and how would you deal even with. 337 00:13:50,775 --> 00:13:51,613 Speaker 2: you don't agree with. 338 00:13:51,625 --> 00:13:54,534 Speaker 1: If anyone who's thinking, OK, you know what, I feel 339 00:13:54,534 --> 00:13:58,544 Speaker 1: I'm ready to start my own business. What's a good 340 00:13:58,544 --> 00:14:01,835 Speaker 1: sort of strategy to transit from maybe a 9 to 341 00:14:01,835 --> 00:14:05,614 Speaker 1: 5 to being your own entrepreneur or starting your own business. 342 00:14:05,664 --> 00:14:08,025 Speaker 2: You really need to make sure that your proof of 343 00:14:08,025 --> 00:14:10,544 Speaker 2: concept can earn you some money. For example, if you 344 00:14:10,544 --> 00:14:11,864 Speaker 2: are thinking of going to baking, right? 345 00:14:12,270 --> 00:14:14,309 Speaker 2: Then they might bake some food and then everybody says 346 00:14:14,309 --> 00:14:16,789 Speaker 2: it's nice, but who would want to pay for it. 347 00:14:16,909 --> 00:14:17,109 Speaker 2: So 348 00:14:17,109 --> 00:14:17,190 Speaker 1: would 349 00:14:17,190 --> 00:14:20,059 Speaker 1: you say that like instead of quitting your job immediately, 350 00:14:20,349 --> 00:14:22,109 Speaker 1: try and do it as like a side hustle 351 00:14:22,109 --> 00:14:24,890 Speaker 2: first. Yeah, I do think that these are passion projects, 352 00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:28,349 Speaker 2: side hustles, hobbies. If it earns you some income, then 353 00:14:28,349 --> 00:14:30,669 Speaker 2: it's good to continue down the line to see how 354 00:14:30,669 --> 00:14:33,539 Speaker 2: far this will go. So sometimes side hustles just remain 355 00:14:33,539 --> 00:14:36,349 Speaker 2: as side hustles or they taper off and sometimes they 356 00:14:36,349 --> 00:14:37,349 Speaker 2: can become businesses. 357 00:14:37,679 --> 00:14:40,380 Speaker 2: But there is the excitement, right? If you want to 358 00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:44,179 Speaker 2: think about becoming an entrepreneur, it doesn't happen overnight. The 359 00:14:44,179 --> 00:14:46,780 Speaker 2: reality of running own business only happens as you take 360 00:14:46,780 --> 00:14:50,809 Speaker 2: small steps towards that direction. So doing small pilots, small tests, 361 00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:52,659 Speaker 2: proof of concepts that earn you money. I think this 362 00:14:52,659 --> 00:14:55,380 Speaker 2: is very important, must earn you money. Yeah, then you 363 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:57,539 Speaker 2: start to think, OK, there's something in this for me. 364 00:14:57,969 --> 00:15:01,539 Speaker 2: Another thing, of course, is to also get the family support. 365 00:15:02,070 --> 00:15:04,030 Speaker 2: I think it's important because what we do with our 366 00:15:04,030 --> 00:15:07,309 Speaker 2: time affects the people, the loved ones around us. Another 367 00:15:07,309 --> 00:15:09,979 Speaker 2: part here is to maybe build a network for yourself. 368 00:15:10,109 --> 00:15:13,150 Speaker 1: Oh, OK, like network outside of your 9 to 5 369 00:15:13,150 --> 00:15:14,909 Speaker 1: job that is related to your side hustle. 370 00:15:15,150 --> 00:15:17,849 Speaker 2: Yes, correct. So let's say I use the baker, for example, right, 371 00:15:18,030 --> 00:15:23,020 Speaker 2: go meet people who are bakers, go speak to bakery owners, 372 00:15:23,190 --> 00:15:25,919 Speaker 2: cafe owners, ask them why they're doing this, how do 373 00:15:25,919 --> 00:15:26,710 Speaker 2: they get by. 374 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,590 Speaker 2: So that you get more information about the sustainability and 375 00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:31,590 Speaker 2: the feasibility. Yeah, 376 00:15:31,789 --> 00:15:31,989 Speaker 1: before you 377 00:15:31,989 --> 00:15:34,469 Speaker 1: take the plunge and go and rent a store and 378 00:15:34,469 --> 00:15:37,309 Speaker 1: go and start buying equipment, so at least you learn 379 00:15:37,309 --> 00:15:39,700 Speaker 1: from them what are things that work and what are 380 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:42,229 Speaker 1: the expensive stuff that you should invest on and what 381 00:15:42,229 --> 00:15:43,909 Speaker 1: are things that you can say it's OK, I don't 382 00:15:43,909 --> 00:15:45,179 Speaker 1: need this at the moment. 383 00:15:45,270 --> 00:15:47,059 Speaker 2: In business school they teach, right? You want to do 384 00:15:47,059 --> 00:15:49,500 Speaker 2: a business, you might have a business plan. 2 years, 385 00:15:49,539 --> 00:15:52,809 Speaker 2: 3 years with cash flow and all that. But in reality, 386 00:15:53,059 --> 00:15:55,969 Speaker 2: unless you're going to pitch for like funding, in reality, 387 00:15:56,020 --> 00:15:58,580 Speaker 2: people start on businesses very organically. You don't need to 388 00:15:58,580 --> 00:16:00,979 Speaker 2: have a 2 year, 3-year plan. You just need to 389 00:16:00,979 --> 00:16:03,460 Speaker 2: test something, see if somebody wants to buy it. 390 00:16:03,799 --> 00:16:06,119 Speaker 2: Then learn more about it, grow into it and then 391 00:16:06,119 --> 00:16:07,799 Speaker 2: see how far it takes you along. It 392 00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:11,159 Speaker 1: reminds me of two stories that I know. So both 393 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:14,679 Speaker 1: home business, food home business, F&B, they were born out 394 00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:18,599 Speaker 1: of COVID. One saute tare, another one did bakes all 395 00:16:18,599 --> 00:16:19,750 Speaker 1: the desserts and stuff like that. 396 00:16:20,210 --> 00:16:23,530 Speaker 1: And they were both really very good and eventually coming 397 00:16:23,530 --> 00:16:27,659 Speaker 1: out of COVID, the one that did realized that, you 398 00:16:27,659 --> 00:16:29,299 Speaker 1: know what, we can do more of this, we can 399 00:16:29,299 --> 00:16:31,729 Speaker 1: scale up the home baked one on the other hand, 400 00:16:32,059 --> 00:16:34,820 Speaker 1: food was great, but this person was like, it's a 401 00:16:34,820 --> 00:16:36,979 Speaker 1: one-man show and not at a stage where I can 402 00:16:36,979 --> 00:16:39,500 Speaker 1: scale up and take in too many orders and do 403 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:42,140 Speaker 1: this on a full-time basis. So that sort of just 404 00:16:42,140 --> 00:16:45,099 Speaker 1: fizzled out, but I think it was just good that 405 00:16:45,099 --> 00:16:46,940 Speaker 1: they both tried and 406 00:16:46,984 --> 00:16:49,494 Speaker 1: It's not that one failed and one got better. It 407 00:16:49,494 --> 00:16:51,494 Speaker 1: was just like the one that didn't happen in the 408 00:16:51,494 --> 00:16:54,255 Speaker 1: end became like a, this was fun, but I'd rather 409 00:16:54,255 --> 00:16:55,775 Speaker 1: keep it to my side hustle. Yeah, 410 00:16:56,054 --> 00:16:58,885 Speaker 2: exactly. So that's why when people think that entrepreneurs love 411 00:16:58,885 --> 00:17:01,455 Speaker 2: what you do, right? It's not really the case. Sometimes 412 00:17:01,455 --> 00:17:03,534 Speaker 2: you do it to a point where you realize you 413 00:17:03,534 --> 00:17:04,014 Speaker 2: don't love it 414 00:17:04,015 --> 00:17:04,204 Speaker 2: anymore. 415 00:17:04,415 --> 00:17:05,974 Speaker 1: Exactly that you don't enjoy it 416 00:17:05,974 --> 00:17:06,313 Speaker 1: anymore, 417 00:17:06,535 --> 00:17:08,563 Speaker 2: but if you're able to think about how to scale, 418 00:17:08,694 --> 00:17:11,734 Speaker 2: it's very likely you have certain SOPs in place, you 419 00:17:11,734 --> 00:17:13,645 Speaker 2: have managed your process as well, you have people. 420 00:17:13,910 --> 00:17:16,250 Speaker 2: And you have some funds, you have some growth, and 421 00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: then you have some ideas and then you can move 422 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,209 Speaker 2: into that space. So that's why a successful business is 423 00:17:21,209 --> 00:17:23,530 Speaker 2: not up to one person. It's really a group of 424 00:17:23,530 --> 00:17:24,479 Speaker 2: people coming together. 425 00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:29,169 Speaker 1: So at that point when it's not fun anymore or 426 00:17:29,170 --> 00:17:30,489 Speaker 1: it's not viable anymore. 427 00:17:30,969 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 1: Is that the time to think about your exit strategy, 428 00:17:33,729 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: or should you always have an exit strategy from the beginning? 429 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,649 Speaker 2: Some people might say having an exit right at the start, 430 00:17:40,770 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: it means that you don't have enough skin in the game. 431 00:17:42,569 --> 00:17:44,619 Speaker 2: Do you have an exit strategy? For me? Yes I have. 432 00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:47,390 Speaker 1: So what does that mean you have no skin in 433 00:17:47,390 --> 00:17:47,729 Speaker 1: this game? 434 00:17:47,969 --> 00:17:50,739 Speaker 2: For me, it's about being accountable. Yeah, but I know 435 00:17:50,739 --> 00:17:52,650 Speaker 2: some people who would say running a business, you cannot 436 00:17:52,650 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 2: think about exiting because you must find. 437 00:17:56,162 --> 00:17:58,953 Speaker 2: Wait, basically it's do and do lah. You cannot die. 438 00:17:59,032 --> 00:18:01,243 Speaker 2: You must do. You must find a way to sustain la. 439 00:18:01,463 --> 00:18:03,811 Speaker 2: And for me, I'm of the camp that life is, 440 00:18:03,953 --> 00:18:04,993 Speaker 2: I can do many things in life, 441 00:18:05,233 --> 00:18:06,103 Speaker 1: right? It's more than 442 00:18:06,103 --> 00:18:08,512 Speaker 2: just this idea of the business, right. If today I 443 00:18:08,512 --> 00:18:10,391 Speaker 2: can't do this, I can pivot. I can do something else. 444 00:18:10,432 --> 00:18:11,993 Speaker 2: So to me that's the exit. Is that 445 00:18:11,993 --> 00:18:14,672 Speaker 1: healthier because then if it fails, at least you don't 446 00:18:14,672 --> 00:18:15,233 Speaker 1: spiral into 447 00:18:15,233 --> 00:18:15,713 Speaker 1: depression. 448 00:18:15,753 --> 00:18:17,993 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think so. For me, at least I 449 00:18:17,993 --> 00:18:20,993 Speaker 2: know that this exit keeps my aim or my vision 450 00:18:20,993 --> 00:18:21,432 Speaker 2: a little bit. 451 00:18:21,546 --> 00:18:24,936 Speaker 2: Longer term and broader, rather than putting everything into this 452 00:18:24,936 --> 00:18:27,576 Speaker 2: business to try to make it work. I'm also scanning 453 00:18:27,576 --> 00:18:30,255 Speaker 2: the environment to see what else could be helpful, what 454 00:18:30,255 --> 00:18:32,416 Speaker 2: else can I do, and then how can I connect 455 00:18:32,416 --> 00:18:35,975 Speaker 2: this existing business into that space because businesses do evolve. 456 00:18:36,336 --> 00:18:38,035 Speaker 2: For example, if you look at Grab, how they started 457 00:18:38,036 --> 00:18:39,484 Speaker 2: and where they are now so different. 458 00:18:39,645 --> 00:18:42,495 Speaker 1: I think if you speak to any successful entrepreneur or 459 00:18:42,494 --> 00:18:45,895 Speaker 1: people or venture capitalists who look at successful businesses and 460 00:18:45,895 --> 00:18:46,855 Speaker 1: they invest in them, 461 00:18:47,089 --> 00:18:49,379 Speaker 1: They will always say that if you really want to 462 00:18:49,380 --> 00:18:52,219 Speaker 1: be an entrepreneur, a very good formula would be to 463 00:18:52,219 --> 00:18:55,699 Speaker 1: start early, start in your twenties because you are bound 464 00:18:55,699 --> 00:18:58,420 Speaker 1: to fail. But don't see it as do or die 465 00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:00,579 Speaker 1: because I think that's the thing with entrepreneurs that I 466 00:19:00,579 --> 00:19:04,170 Speaker 1: have come to notice is that they have transferable skills. 467 00:19:04,339 --> 00:19:06,579 Speaker 1: They will see it as, OK, these are lessons I 468 00:19:06,579 --> 00:19:08,699 Speaker 1: learned from my first business, I move on to the 469 00:19:08,699 --> 00:19:11,300 Speaker 1: second one, then they will just keep trying and testing 470 00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:14,339 Speaker 1: different business ideas and I think that in itself is 471 00:19:14,339 --> 00:19:16,409 Speaker 1: like the mark of what makes a good and 472 00:19:16,455 --> 00:19:19,885 Speaker 1: Successful entrepreneur, somebody who just never gives up and sees 473 00:19:19,885 --> 00:19:22,686 Speaker 1: that this whole journey is a journey of transferable skills 474 00:19:22,686 --> 00:19:26,145 Speaker 1: rather than a business idea that I cannot let go 475 00:19:26,145 --> 00:19:27,275 Speaker 1: of at the end of the day. 476 00:19:27,406 --> 00:19:29,645 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like what you said about starting early. I 477 00:19:29,645 --> 00:19:32,965 Speaker 2: think many students these days, if they are thinking about 478 00:19:32,965 --> 00:19:34,725 Speaker 2: starting a business, go and test it out, try it 479 00:19:34,725 --> 00:19:37,865 Speaker 2: out in schools, they have incubators, they have mentors, there 480 00:19:37,865 --> 00:19:40,446 Speaker 2: are some startup funds for them to try, go and 481 00:19:40,446 --> 00:19:42,505 Speaker 2: try because that's also one way of learning how the 482 00:19:42,505 --> 00:19:45,286 Speaker 2: world works. And I know many friends who start businesses 483 00:19:45,286 --> 00:19:45,765 Speaker 2: in school. 484 00:19:46,092 --> 00:19:48,511 Speaker 2: And right now, after 20 years, they are still doing 485 00:19:48,511 --> 00:19:50,612 Speaker 2: their own businesses, they may not do the same business, 486 00:19:50,791 --> 00:19:53,352 Speaker 2: but they're business owners now. Don't wait until you're past 487 00:19:53,352 --> 00:19:55,602 Speaker 2: a certain age because then you'll be living in regret 488 00:19:55,602 --> 00:19:56,871 Speaker 2: that you never ever tried 489 00:19:56,871 --> 00:19:57,151 Speaker 2: this. 490 00:19:57,271 --> 00:19:59,552 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think anyone who's listening in, if you 491 00:19:59,552 --> 00:20:03,751 Speaker 1: are interested to start something, a business idea, do your 492 00:20:03,751 --> 00:20:07,071 Speaker 1: small market scan, test out with some friends. More importantly, 493 00:20:07,112 --> 00:20:09,592 Speaker 1: I think what I've learned from this conversation is find 494 00:20:09,592 --> 00:20:11,952 Speaker 1: the right team, find the right team to build with 495 00:20:11,952 --> 00:20:14,031 Speaker 1: and that I think is your support network that can 496 00:20:14,031 --> 00:20:15,021 Speaker 1: take you quite far. 497 00:20:17,939 --> 00:20:21,329 Speaker 1: Hi, welcome to our brand new segment. We're calling it 498 00:20:21,540 --> 00:20:25,729 Speaker 1: the work feed, where we scroll so you don't have to. 499 00:20:26,020 --> 00:20:30,380 Speaker 1: From relatable confessions to full blown rants online, we are 500 00:20:30,380 --> 00:20:33,180 Speaker 1: going to look at the real questions and stories that 501 00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:36,540 Speaker 1: you are sharing. Today, Gerald, we are looking at something 502 00:20:36,540 --> 00:20:39,660 Speaker 1: that came from Reddit. OK, why do people go to 503 00:20:39,660 --> 00:20:41,579 Speaker 1: Reddit for career advice? I'm not a Redditor, 504 00:20:41,619 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 2: so explain. I just had someone tell me this week 505 00:20:44,459 --> 00:20:47,139 Speaker 2: that he gets all his career planning tips on Reddit. 506 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, but he did say that it's a little bit 507 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,709 Speaker 2: gloomy sometimes and he doesn't know what to think about 508 00:20:52,709 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 2: some of the advice and the tips there because 509 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 1: it can become like a full blown brand, everybody's just renting. 510 00:20:58,229 --> 00:21:00,020 Speaker 2: So it's like a bit of an echo chamber sometimes. 511 00:21:00,109 --> 00:21:01,469 Speaker 2: So I guess that's why we are doing this, right? Yes, 512 00:21:01,650 --> 00:21:03,349 Speaker 1: we are doing this because we are going to cut 513 00:21:03,349 --> 00:21:06,270 Speaker 1: through all the negativity, try to distill it down and 514 00:21:06,270 --> 00:21:09,030 Speaker 1: then give out the positive fights. OK, let's start. So 515 00:21:09,030 --> 00:21:10,930 Speaker 1: someone on Reddit said, how bad 516 00:21:11,011 --> 00:21:14,491 Speaker 1: Exactly is the job market right now. This person went 517 00:21:14,491 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: on to say, I know it's bad, but how bad 518 00:21:16,641 --> 00:21:19,771 Speaker 1: is bad. I feel like there are so many job listings, 519 00:21:19,811 --> 00:21:23,521 Speaker 1: but most of them don't even review your application. OK, 520 00:21:23,732 --> 00:21:27,410 Speaker 1: so according to the Ministry of Manpower, the citizen unemployment 521 00:21:27,411 --> 00:21:32,972 Speaker 1: rate is 3.1% as of March 2025. OK. So MOM 522 00:21:32,972 --> 00:21:34,391 Speaker 1: says it's comparable 523 00:21:34,443 --> 00:21:36,713 Speaker 1: For years when we are not in recession. So our 524 00:21:36,713 --> 00:21:39,994 Speaker 1: producer did her homework and then gave me so that 525 00:21:39,994 --> 00:21:43,633 Speaker 1: I feel smart saying this. Between 2015 to 2019, the 526 00:21:43,634 --> 00:21:48,833 Speaker 1: range was 2.7% to 3.5%. That's the citizen unemployment rate. 527 00:21:48,874 --> 00:21:51,292 Speaker 1: So currently we like in that same range. So 528 00:21:51,292 --> 00:21:53,193 Speaker 2: statistically it's not worse off. Yes, 529 00:21:53,354 --> 00:21:56,433 Speaker 1: in terms of numbers, but I think people feel that 530 00:21:56,433 --> 00:21:57,792 Speaker 1: it's bad. Someone in the same. 531 00:21:58,015 --> 00:22:01,176 Speaker 1: Thread said it's horrendous. He says, I took a decent 532 00:22:01,176 --> 00:22:04,254 Speaker 1: job opportunity at first sight after several months of finding. 533 00:22:04,336 --> 00:22:07,375 Speaker 1: I did not even negotiate. I just took it. What 534 00:22:07,375 --> 00:22:07,936 Speaker 1: do you hear on the 535 00:22:07,936 --> 00:22:08,055 Speaker 1: ground? 536 00:22:08,455 --> 00:22:12,705 Speaker 2: It feels bad. I, I, I think a lot of 537 00:22:12,705 --> 00:22:15,125 Speaker 2: times what we read online, sometimes it could be just 538 00:22:15,125 --> 00:22:18,176 Speaker 2: a side of what's going on. It may not be 539 00:22:18,176 --> 00:22:20,026 Speaker 2: the full picture. So I think there's still sectors that 540 00:22:20,026 --> 00:22:21,286 Speaker 2: are hiring, of course there are some. 541 00:22:21,540 --> 00:22:24,129 Speaker 2: Industries are letting go of people. The big surprise is 542 00:22:24,130 --> 00:22:28,250 Speaker 2: like digital tech, supposed to be the 543 00:22:28,250 --> 00:22:28,260 Speaker 2: one 544 00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:30,530 Speaker 2: that supposed to be the one that will be hiring 545 00:22:30,530 --> 00:22:32,369 Speaker 2: more people, but yet we see them letting go of 546 00:22:32,369 --> 00:22:32,958 Speaker 2: a lot of people. 547 00:22:33,170 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: So is it dependent? 548 00:22:34,650 --> 00:22:37,010 Speaker 2: I think roughly so, yes. You look at some of 549 00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:40,660 Speaker 2: the other industries, social services, education, we just saw that 550 00:22:40,660 --> 00:22:41,369 Speaker 2: announcing more 551 00:22:41,369 --> 00:22:41,899 Speaker 1: teachers, 552 00:22:42,650 --> 00:22:46,489 Speaker 2: yeah, so I think there are opportunities within different sectors. 553 00:22:46,819 --> 00:22:49,488 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think also in healthcare as well nurses, there's 554 00:22:49,489 --> 00:22:49,709 Speaker 1: a great 555 00:22:49,755 --> 00:22:51,823 Speaker 1: Demand for nurses. Of course a lot of people are 556 00:22:51,824 --> 00:22:54,504 Speaker 1: going to say, guys, you are only mentioning the jobs 557 00:22:54,505 --> 00:22:58,665 Speaker 1: that you know are very taxing, very tiring, very labor intensive. 558 00:22:58,824 --> 00:23:00,505 Speaker 1: I know a lot of like nurses who work very 559 00:23:00,505 --> 00:23:03,344 Speaker 1: long hours, teachers who work very long hours, for these 560 00:23:03,344 --> 00:23:06,334 Speaker 1: kind of jobs. The job market isn't exactly that bad, 561 00:23:06,864 --> 00:23:09,094 Speaker 1: but it does sound like if you are considering your 562 00:23:09,094 --> 00:23:12,535 Speaker 1: tech sectors, then maybe it looks bad because there are 563 00:23:12,535 --> 00:23:14,395 Speaker 1: a lot of hires and a lot of fires. 564 00:23:14,905 --> 00:23:16,823 Speaker 2: As we talk about tech sector, it might seem like 565 00:23:16,824 --> 00:23:17,823 Speaker 2: it's a place to shun. 566 00:23:18,270 --> 00:23:20,649 Speaker 2: I think there are still opportunities there. I just saw 567 00:23:20,650 --> 00:23:23,170 Speaker 2: a post the other day about this company that's looking 568 00:23:23,170 --> 00:23:25,448 Speaker 2: to hire and it's a tech company in Singapore. They're 569 00:23:25,449 --> 00:23:27,649 Speaker 2: looking to hire several positions. They're looking to scale up. 570 00:23:27,770 --> 00:23:29,329 Speaker 2: I think we just got to keep our options a 571 00:23:29,329 --> 00:23:31,569 Speaker 2: little bit more open. I know some people might not 572 00:23:31,569 --> 00:23:34,349 Speaker 2: see themselves as a nurse or as a teacher, right? 573 00:23:34,609 --> 00:23:37,250 Speaker 2: Then find something that is closer to what you're comfortable 574 00:23:37,250 --> 00:23:38,010 Speaker 2: to do or what you. 575 00:23:38,155 --> 00:23:39,563 Speaker 2: To do what experience in doing. 576 00:23:39,824 --> 00:23:40,224 Speaker 1: So what I 577 00:23:40,224 --> 00:23:42,544 Speaker 1: like about Reddit is that people actually jump in and 578 00:23:42,545 --> 00:23:46,344 Speaker 1: give solutions. So someone says the best thing you can 579 00:23:46,344 --> 00:23:49,055 Speaker 1: help yourself if you're gainfully employed is to pick up 580 00:23:49,055 --> 00:23:54,074 Speaker 1: new skills or areas by considering internal transfers or taking 581 00:23:54,074 --> 00:23:57,425 Speaker 1: on more responsibilities. I always wonder from a career counselor 582 00:23:57,425 --> 00:23:58,024 Speaker 1: point of view. 583 00:23:58,420 --> 00:24:01,589 Speaker 1: Is there a guarantee if you upskill yourself, you can 584 00:24:01,589 --> 00:24:02,229 Speaker 1: find a job? No, 585 00:24:02,469 --> 00:24:03,260 Speaker 2: there's no guarantee. 586 00:24:05,819 --> 00:24:07,380 Speaker 1: Then what is the point of upscaling? 587 00:24:07,550 --> 00:24:09,910 Speaker 2: For me, I feel like upskilling is like a posture. 588 00:24:10,030 --> 00:24:13,109 Speaker 2: It's an attitude of wanting to learn. It doesn't equate 589 00:24:13,109 --> 00:24:16,109 Speaker 2: to going for a classroom, getting a certificate. I think 590 00:24:16,109 --> 00:24:19,989 Speaker 2: it's that having that curiosity, having that initiative to look 591 00:24:19,989 --> 00:24:22,150 Speaker 2: out for where can you do better and what can 592 00:24:22,150 --> 00:24:24,310 Speaker 2: you solve. Upskilling in the workplace could look. 593 00:24:24,422 --> 00:24:27,083 Speaker 2: Like you're looking for problems to solve, learning how to 594 00:24:27,083 --> 00:24:28,142 Speaker 2: solve your problems better. 595 00:24:28,723 --> 00:24:31,203 Speaker 1: So you mean with what I'm doing right now, find 596 00:24:31,203 --> 00:24:33,322 Speaker 1: skills that is an additional layer on top of what 597 00:24:33,321 --> 00:24:35,522 Speaker 1: I'm doing. Not today, I'm making a podcast and suddenly 598 00:24:35,522 --> 00:24:36,963 Speaker 1: all of a sudden I go, I want to go 599 00:24:36,963 --> 00:24:38,602 Speaker 1: and be a barista. I go and learn how to 600 00:24:38,603 --> 00:24:40,802 Speaker 1: make coffee like totally different things, but you are saying 601 00:24:40,802 --> 00:24:42,442 Speaker 1: to stack on your 602 00:24:42,442 --> 00:24:42,833 Speaker 1: skills. 603 00:24:43,243 --> 00:24:44,681 Speaker 2: I think when you say stack it reminds me of 604 00:24:44,682 --> 00:24:49,151 Speaker 2: if I play Pokemon Go, right? Pokemon, you know, they evolve. 605 00:24:49,402 --> 00:24:50,172 Speaker 1: OK, OK. 606 00:24:50,686 --> 00:24:54,645 Speaker 2: So like they start with this little Pokemon. Yes, exactly. 607 00:24:54,895 --> 00:24:57,656 Speaker 2: That's only Pokemon I know by the way, so well done. OK. 608 00:24:57,975 --> 00:25:00,056 Speaker 2: So we see that Pokemon have to collect some experience 609 00:25:00,056 --> 00:25:03,455 Speaker 2: points and this experience points sometimes can be like fighting 610 00:25:03,455 --> 00:25:06,895 Speaker 2: certain battles, going to do certain tasks, and then they 611 00:25:06,895 --> 00:25:09,135 Speaker 2: have to keep evolving along the way until they level up. 612 00:25:09,255 --> 00:25:09,575 Speaker 1: If you are 613 00:25:09,576 --> 00:25:12,816 Speaker 1: not a Chami or a lizard in this company, you 614 00:25:12,816 --> 00:25:14,285 Speaker 1: can be one somewhere else. 615 00:25:14,895 --> 00:25:16,635 Speaker 2: That's the best part about it, right, because 616 00:25:17,089 --> 00:25:20,109 Speaker 2: That growth in you is something that no company can 617 00:25:20,109 --> 00:25:22,869 Speaker 2: take from you. Even if the company decides to retrenched 618 00:25:22,869 --> 00:25:25,170 Speaker 2: and you're one of the unfortunate ones, then guess what? 619 00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:29,349 Speaker 2: You're walking away a stronger, more capable person, right? And 620 00:25:29,349 --> 00:25:31,469 Speaker 2: you're able to bring your value to another place. The 621 00:25:31,469 --> 00:25:33,899 Speaker 2: challenge is most of us want to remain the Shamander 622 00:25:34,189 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 2: in the company, and then just do as little as possible. 623 00:25:37,380 --> 00:25:38,989 Speaker 2: Hopefully we don't get let go. 624 00:25:39,156 --> 00:25:41,936 Speaker 2: But if today the X comes down, then we don't 625 00:25:41,936 --> 00:25:44,014 Speaker 2: know how we are we able to sell ourselves to 626 00:25:44,015 --> 00:25:46,696 Speaker 2: the next company. I think the point of training here 627 00:25:46,696 --> 00:25:51,095 Speaker 2: is really to clock more experiences, magnify the things that 628 00:25:51,095 --> 00:25:51,936 Speaker 2: you do at work. Yeah, 629 00:25:52,015 --> 00:25:54,576 Speaker 1: and I think rather than be lured in by the 630 00:25:54,576 --> 00:25:57,245 Speaker 1: idea that everyone is talking about AI skills right now, 631 00:25:57,416 --> 00:25:59,326 Speaker 1: I also need to go and learn AI but maybe 632 00:25:59,326 --> 00:26:01,094 Speaker 1: just get a little bit of learning experience. 633 00:26:01,401 --> 00:26:03,962 Speaker 1: get a sense of the skills you can grow so 634 00:26:03,962 --> 00:26:07,001 Speaker 1: that you are a little bit more marketable for the 635 00:26:07,001 --> 00:26:09,241 Speaker 1: next employer when you are looking for a job in 636 00:26:09,241 --> 00:26:11,841 Speaker 1: the job market. If that's something that you can relate 637 00:26:11,842 --> 00:26:13,921 Speaker 1: as well, do send to us your comments. We are 638 00:26:13,921 --> 00:26:19,031 Speaker 1: at CNA podcasts at Mediacorp.com.sg. We're also on Spotify, Apple Podcast, 639 00:26:19,232 --> 00:26:22,352 Speaker 1: me Listen, and YouTube where a video version of this 640 00:26:22,352 --> 00:26:23,232 Speaker 1: is at. 641 00:26:23,530 --> 00:26:25,989 Speaker 1: The team behind the Work It podcast is Hoei Ning, 642 00:26:26,069 --> 00:26:30,819 Speaker 1: Juani Johari, Joanne Chan, Saya Win, Nat Fettervaro, Allison Jenner, 643 00:26:30,869 --> 00:26:34,900 Speaker 1: and Shahza Dalila. Video by Hanida Amin. I'm Gerald and 644 00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:40,489 Speaker 1: I'm Tiffany. Go and be your own Cha Mer. No, Chai.