1 00:00:03,470 --> 00:00:05,809 Speaker 1: You're listening to AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:10,710 --> 00:00:14,010 Speaker 1: Your Wedding Day. It's often described as one of the 3 00:00:14,020 --> 00:00:17,569 Speaker 1: happiest days of a person's life. Very few walk into 4 00:00:17,579 --> 00:00:20,610 Speaker 1: a marriage expecting it to end. And there are two 5 00:00:20,620 --> 00:00:23,950 Speaker 1: countries in the world where it can't. The Philippines is 6 00:00:23,959 --> 00:00:26,979 Speaker 1: one of them for centuries. It has been illegal to 7 00:00:26,989 --> 00:00:29,530 Speaker 1: divorce there, but that could change soon. 8 00:00:31,030 --> 00:00:34,319 Speaker 1: I'm Theresa Tang CN A correspondent. Neville Rya joins me 9 00:00:34,330 --> 00:00:37,689 Speaker 1: today to explain why and why some in the Southeast 10 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: Asian nation say it's a bad idea. 11 00:00:44,110 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: Hi, Neville. Welcome back Teresa. The idea of a fairy 12 00:00:48,009 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: tale marriage. It's introduced to many of us when we're Children. 13 00:00:51,049 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: You know, princesses, princes, they're happily ever afters, but real 14 00:00:55,209 --> 00:00:58,630 Speaker 1: life is messy and for some people, if things don't 15 00:00:58,639 --> 00:01:00,889 Speaker 1: work out, you just have to lawyer up, you sign 16 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:02,849 Speaker 1: some papers, you move on, right? 17 00:01:03,090 --> 00:01:06,419 Speaker 1: But that's not the case in the Philippines. What inspired 18 00:01:06,430 --> 00:01:09,870 Speaker 1: this story and why is divorce prohibited there? I was 19 00:01:09,879 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: traveling to the Philippines mainly to do a story on 20 00:01:13,010 --> 00:01:17,029 Speaker 1: migrant workers. But whenever I'm on a reporting trip, I 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,029 Speaker 1: always aim to do at least two stories. And that's 22 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,069 Speaker 1: when I came across the fact that the Philippines is 23 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:24,989 Speaker 1: the only country outside of the Vatican 24 00:01:25,074 --> 00:01:29,274 Speaker 1: where divorce is illegal. And I was wondering why that 25 00:01:29,285 --> 00:01:33,735 Speaker 1: is the case and how does this impact society? And 26 00:01:33,745 --> 00:01:37,404 Speaker 1: what I discovered that it was introduced by the Spanish, 27 00:01:37,415 --> 00:01:41,065 Speaker 1: actually the colonial rule. And when the Philippines was taken 28 00:01:41,074 --> 00:01:44,675 Speaker 1: over by the United States divorce was legalized for a 29 00:01:44,684 --> 00:01:48,334 Speaker 1: very brief period of time. But then after the Philippines 30 00:01:48,345 --> 00:01:49,635 Speaker 1: became independent, 31 00:01:49,970 --> 00:01:54,589 Speaker 1: divorce is illegal. Again, it was basically not recognized under 32 00:01:54,599 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: the country's civil code. Right now. Couples can only separate 33 00:01:58,730 --> 00:02:04,750 Speaker 1: but remain legally married. So even though the spouse is abusive, 34 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,788 Speaker 1: unfaithful negligent, you can only legally separate. 35 00:02:09,018 --> 00:02:12,438 Speaker 1: And that has a lot of ramification. Like for example, 36 00:02:12,488 --> 00:02:16,668 Speaker 1: even though if you separate the deeds, the title, everything 37 00:02:16,679 --> 00:02:20,547 Speaker 1: is still under you and your husband's name. So you can't, 38 00:02:20,559 --> 00:02:23,998 Speaker 1: for example, buy a property, you need to have your 39 00:02:24,008 --> 00:02:27,248 Speaker 1: husband's signature. If you want to open a business, you 40 00:02:27,258 --> 00:02:30,758 Speaker 1: need a husband's signature as well because technically speaking, you're 41 00:02:30,768 --> 00:02:32,429 Speaker 1: still legally married, 42 00:02:33,008 --> 00:02:37,149 Speaker 1: you can also file for an annulment. But here's the catch, 43 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,539 Speaker 1: you have to prove that the marriage which happens years 44 00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:43,710 Speaker 1: and years ago, decades and decades ago was not lawful 45 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,139 Speaker 1: to begin with. Oh, that's tough. And all that abuse 46 00:02:47,149 --> 00:02:51,419 Speaker 1: neglect which came after the union are not grounds for annulment. 47 00:02:51,429 --> 00:02:53,589 Speaker 1: So you can't seek an annulment even though 48 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:56,809 Speaker 1: you are being abused, you are being tortured by your 49 00:02:56,820 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: spouse then what's public sentiment around divorce? Are people generally 50 00:03:01,369 --> 00:03:04,029 Speaker 1: accepting of the law or has there been pressure to 51 00:03:04,038 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: change it? Because I know the Filipino family, the institution 52 00:03:07,610 --> 00:03:10,589 Speaker 1: of the family, it forms the foundation of society so 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: much so that the notion is enshrined in the constitution. 54 00:03:14,679 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: So I imagine any law that would facilitate the breakup 55 00:03:18,330 --> 00:03:21,570 Speaker 1: of a family would be controversial there. Yeah. Yes, you're right. 56 00:03:21,630 --> 00:03:26,038 Speaker 1: Like right now it's about an even 5050 split and 57 00:03:26,050 --> 00:03:29,609 Speaker 1: leaning in favor of divorce because more and more people 58 00:03:29,619 --> 00:03:33,538 Speaker 1: are open to the idea, especially given the fact that 59 00:03:33,550 --> 00:03:36,929 Speaker 1: the Philippines is the only country outside of the Vatican 60 00:03:36,940 --> 00:03:38,699 Speaker 1: where divorce is illegal. So 61 00:03:38,792 --> 00:03:43,212 Speaker 1: everyone else are now thinking, hey, even our own former 62 00:03:43,223 --> 00:03:47,613 Speaker 1: colonizer of Spain has legalized divorce. All the other countries 63 00:03:47,623 --> 00:03:51,613 Speaker 1: like Mexico, Brazil is legalized divorce. You're right. It is 64 00:03:51,623 --> 00:03:54,791 Speaker 1: still a very, very sensitive topic. So there is a 65 00:03:54,802 --> 00:03:59,712 Speaker 1: fierce debate between both camps, both the proponents and also 66 00:03:59,723 --> 00:04:02,813 Speaker 1: the critics of legalizing divorce. This is under 67 00:04:02,906 --> 00:04:06,966 Speaker 1: understandable because this is something which has been around for generations. 68 00:04:06,975 --> 00:04:09,936 Speaker 1: You can imagine the debate that is going on for 69 00:04:09,945 --> 00:04:12,925 Speaker 1: me preparing for this episode with you. The hardest part 70 00:04:12,936 --> 00:04:16,805 Speaker 1: was watching all this raw footage, the interviews that you held, 71 00:04:16,815 --> 00:04:18,445 Speaker 1: you sent me the tapes and I watched them. I 72 00:04:18,455 --> 00:04:21,395 Speaker 1: was pretty emotional for some of that because there were 73 00:04:21,406 --> 00:04:25,246 Speaker 1: these women who shared intimate details of their lives, why 74 00:04:25,255 --> 00:04:26,914 Speaker 1: they wanted a divorce and 75 00:04:27,230 --> 00:04:31,519 Speaker 1: they were mostly stories that involved abuse. How did you 76 00:04:31,529 --> 00:04:34,730 Speaker 1: find these women? And for you, when you heard it firsthand, 77 00:04:34,738 --> 00:04:37,329 Speaker 1: how did you feel? Well, we had a lot of 78 00:04:37,339 --> 00:04:42,089 Speaker 1: help from divorced Filipinas, which is a coalition of different 79 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:46,649 Speaker 1: groups of women and men who are all advocating for 80 00:04:46,660 --> 00:04:48,369 Speaker 1: the legalization of divorce. 81 00:04:48,660 --> 00:04:51,709 Speaker 1: We interviewed four women in total to the health of 82 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,750 Speaker 1: the coalition. However, there's this one woman which we kind 83 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,058 Speaker 1: of like stumbled across by accident as we're doing a 84 00:04:59,070 --> 00:05:03,229 Speaker 1: totally separate story on migrant workers. She was a former 85 00:05:03,238 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: migrant worker and she explained the reason why she went 86 00:05:06,488 --> 00:05:09,700 Speaker 1: abroad was because she was abused and she was trying 87 00:05:09,709 --> 00:05:13,558 Speaker 1: to escape her abusive husband. These women are so amazing 88 00:05:13,570 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: and the stories they tell they're just heartbreaking. 89 00:05:16,859 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: I met this one woman, her name is Cheryl Otoya. 90 00:05:20,178 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: So she got married when she was really young at 91 00:05:22,649 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: 17 and she was forced to marry the man she 92 00:05:26,170 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: does not love and does not love her back. Her 93 00:05:29,329 --> 00:05:33,260 Speaker 1: husband was always drunk. He spent all the family's money 94 00:05:33,269 --> 00:05:38,070 Speaker 1: on gambling and he even tried to force their eldest 95 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:42,130 Speaker 1: child to quit school and work. And that's the straw 96 00:05:42,140 --> 00:05:42,959 Speaker 1: that broke the camel 97 00:05:43,070 --> 00:05:45,730 Speaker 1: back. I guess she finally had the courage to say 98 00:05:45,750 --> 00:05:49,519 Speaker 1: enough is enough. And she has been fighting for 12 99 00:05:49,529 --> 00:05:53,130 Speaker 1: years to get her marriage annulled. She has spent in 100 00:05:53,140 --> 00:05:59,229 Speaker 1: total maybe equivalent to $30,000. And even after she has 101 00:05:59,238 --> 00:06:03,429 Speaker 1: exhausted all her savings going through all that trouble. Her 102 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,850 Speaker 1: motion was denied by the court because it is hard, 103 00:06:06,859 --> 00:06:09,170 Speaker 1: it is hard to prove a marriage that happened 104 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,390 Speaker 1: 30 years ago was not legal in the first place. 105 00:06:13,399 --> 00:06:16,130 Speaker 1: And you can imagine that she had to travel for 106 00:06:16,140 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: five hours from her village to the city where the 107 00:06:19,850 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: courthouse is and whenever she needs to appear in court, 108 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,459 Speaker 1: now she can still appeal, but she doesn't want to 109 00:06:27,470 --> 00:06:32,029 Speaker 1: go through that again and hinges all her hope now 110 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,940 Speaker 1: that divorce will finally be legalized in the Philippines 111 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: because the legal process has been hard on her and 112 00:06:38,730 --> 00:06:43,140 Speaker 1: also her Children, not only financially but also emotionally. And 113 00:06:43,149 --> 00:06:45,410 Speaker 1: here is my interview with Madame Estoy. 114 00:06:49,890 --> 00:06:52,779 Speaker 2: My Children were asked to testify against their father in 115 00:06:52,790 --> 00:06:54,700 Speaker 2: court and it was really hard for them. 116 00:06:56,140 --> 00:07:01,890 Speaker 2: I cannot let them go through that again. The law 117 00:07:01,899 --> 00:07:05,049 Speaker 2: here in the Philippines sometimes treats you like a criminal. 118 00:07:05,059 --> 00:07:10,859 Speaker 2: Even when you are the one being abused, even criminals 119 00:07:10,869 --> 00:07:14,049 Speaker 2: are given parole and being released. What about us? 120 00:07:17,559 --> 00:07:20,510 Speaker 1: That law that prohibits divorce? It's been in place for 121 00:07:20,519 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: centuries for generations except for a short time as you 122 00:07:23,609 --> 00:07:26,489 Speaker 1: mentioned off the top. But in May of this year, 123 00:07:26,500 --> 00:07:30,579 Speaker 1: something happened that has never happened before. The country's House 124 00:07:30,589 --> 00:07:34,859 Speaker 1: of Representatives approved the Absolute Divorce Act. It passed it 125 00:07:34,869 --> 00:07:38,059 Speaker 1: on to the Senate for more deliberation and that's big, right? 126 00:07:38,070 --> 00:07:41,179 Speaker 1: This hasn't happened before. So what got us to this point. 127 00:07:41,190 --> 00:07:43,579 Speaker 1: Why are we seeing such progress now? 128 00:07:43,950 --> 00:07:47,049 Speaker 1: Well, it is an unprecedented success. They have never reached 129 00:07:47,059 --> 00:07:51,250 Speaker 1: this point before, especially for this bill to be deliberated 130 00:07:51,260 --> 00:07:54,309 Speaker 1: by the Senate the way it is today. But that 131 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: success didn't come overnight. They started to get the ball 132 00:07:57,609 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: rolling around 12 years ago to the help of this congressman. 133 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,369 Speaker 1: His name is Mr Etzel Lachman. He's the one who's 134 00:08:05,380 --> 00:08:08,609 Speaker 1: willing to fight for this. He's the one who's drafting 135 00:08:08,619 --> 00:08:10,010 Speaker 1: the bill. He's the one 136 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,220 Speaker 1: lobbying his peers and convince them that this is the 137 00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:17,980 Speaker 1: way forward as a nation. So at first, Mr Lagman 138 00:08:17,989 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: was unsuccessful, but that didn't deter him even if it 139 00:08:21,929 --> 00:08:25,790 Speaker 1: meant that all that effort was for nothing. And you 140 00:08:25,799 --> 00:08:30,540 Speaker 1: have to start from scratch again and again, introducing the bill, 141 00:08:30,549 --> 00:08:35,098 Speaker 1: writing letters to the Chairman of the House of Representatives 142 00:08:35,109 --> 00:08:36,340 Speaker 1: and then presenting the bill 143 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,849 Speaker 1: and then the lower house have to vote for it. 144 00:08:39,859 --> 00:08:43,549 Speaker 1: Convincing the Senate. He has to do this over and 145 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,799 Speaker 1: over and over again. And now fast forward. 12 years later, 146 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,909 Speaker 1: there are now at least five of the 24 members 147 00:08:50,919 --> 00:08:53,869 Speaker 1: of the Senate who have spoken out in support of 148 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,429 Speaker 1: the bill. And maybe he's hoping there are a few 149 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,260 Speaker 1: more who secretly supporting this bill but doesn't want to 150 00:09:01,270 --> 00:09:02,630 Speaker 1: go public about it. 151 00:09:02,859 --> 00:09:05,890 Speaker 1: But at the grassroot level, we started seeing like all 152 00:09:05,900 --> 00:09:09,340 Speaker 1: these informal groups, some of them started as nothing more 153 00:09:09,349 --> 00:09:13,858 Speaker 1: than Facebook groups, basically where women can have discussions and 154 00:09:13,869 --> 00:09:17,070 Speaker 1: they start to get together and form 155 00:09:17,489 --> 00:09:21,270 Speaker 1: a coalition together. They have done various campaigns, educating the 156 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: public both online and off spreading their message, get people 157 00:09:25,450 --> 00:09:28,789 Speaker 1: on board. And the coalition has vowed like whatever happens 158 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:32,859 Speaker 1: to this bill, whether it's truly passed into law or not, 159 00:09:32,979 --> 00:09:36,770 Speaker 1: they will keep fighting. And here's my interview with one 160 00:09:36,780 --> 00:09:39,819 Speaker 1: of the members of the coalition madam Stella Seona, 161 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: still hoping we're still hoping that the bill will be passed. 162 00:09:47,179 --> 00:09:49,979 Speaker 1: It's not only for us but for the future of 163 00:09:49,989 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: our Children because we don't know what the future holds. 164 00:09:53,299 --> 00:09:58,419 Speaker 1: Like those who were abandoned and abused, sometimes others resort 165 00:09:58,429 --> 00:10:02,500 Speaker 1: to killing because there is no divorce or annulment. That's 166 00:10:02,510 --> 00:10:05,039 Speaker 1: why our group lobbies for the bill to be passed. 167 00:10:07,780 --> 00:10:12,468 Speaker 1: Many female Filipinos they work overseas as domestic workers. And 168 00:10:12,479 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: I wonder if that's been a factor in terms of 169 00:10:15,010 --> 00:10:19,070 Speaker 1: disrupting domestic family dynamics because often the wife, the mother 170 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: isn't home to an extent it has. There are cases 171 00:10:22,289 --> 00:10:25,429 Speaker 1: of migrant workers falling in love with a co worker 172 00:10:25,474 --> 00:10:29,335 Speaker 1: worker abroad or their manager or their employer, even though 173 00:10:29,344 --> 00:10:32,655 Speaker 1: they have families waiting at home. And the same goes 174 00:10:32,664 --> 00:10:36,655 Speaker 1: to those who were left behind at home. Sometimes they 175 00:10:36,664 --> 00:10:39,724 Speaker 1: fall in love with a neighbor or someone else because 176 00:10:39,734 --> 00:10:43,113 Speaker 1: the wife or the husband is far away in another country. 177 00:10:43,474 --> 00:10:46,424 Speaker 1: And that goes for both men and women. But conversely, 178 00:10:46,434 --> 00:10:50,395 Speaker 1: there are people who also went abroad like the woman 179 00:10:50,405 --> 00:10:53,734 Speaker 1: that I interviewed Jessica, not her real name 180 00:10:53,989 --> 00:10:57,599 Speaker 1: to get away from their abusive husbands or their toxic marriage. 181 00:10:57,609 --> 00:11:01,739 Speaker 1: In the Philippines, we've heard of so called Las Vegas weddings. 182 00:11:01,750 --> 00:11:04,650 Speaker 1: People make a few bad decisions before you know it. 183 00:11:04,659 --> 00:11:07,169 Speaker 1: They are at the altar and quick unions often lead 184 00:11:07,179 --> 00:11:11,609 Speaker 1: to quick separations. This proposed bill that you're talking about. Neville. 185 00:11:11,619 --> 00:11:14,780 Speaker 1: It has strict parameters though. It's not saying that divorce 186 00:11:14,789 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: is to be taken lightly. So the way the bill 187 00:11:17,289 --> 00:11:19,929 Speaker 1: is now, there are grounds for 188 00:11:20,020 --> 00:11:25,209 Speaker 1: divorce. So you cannot divorce simply because you don't love 189 00:11:25,219 --> 00:11:29,510 Speaker 1: someone anymore. There are strict grounds to follow. So for example, 190 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: you can file for a divorce if you have been 191 00:11:32,729 --> 00:11:36,799 Speaker 1: abused or your Children has been abused by one of 192 00:11:36,809 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: the spouses. You can file for a divorce if your 193 00:11:39,969 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: spouse is cheating on you or also on grounds like 194 00:11:43,969 --> 00:11:45,900 Speaker 1: they can no longer provide 195 00:11:46,049 --> 00:11:49,989 Speaker 1: for the family because he's now serving a very long 196 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,780 Speaker 1: time in prison or something or he has met someone 197 00:11:52,789 --> 00:11:55,469 Speaker 1: else and no one knows where he is right now. 198 00:11:55,669 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: So there are grounds like that and there is also 199 00:11:59,090 --> 00:12:02,358 Speaker 1: like a period which has yet to be determined where 200 00:12:02,369 --> 00:12:05,429 Speaker 1: a recently divorced couple would have to wait before they 201 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,429 Speaker 1: can remarry. So there are very, very strict grounds. The 202 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,979 Speaker 1: Philippines of course, has a predominantly Catholic population, 203 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: religious beliefs are deeply rooted in Filipino society. So how 204 00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:17,939 Speaker 1: does that play into it? How does faith play into 205 00:12:17,950 --> 00:12:21,549 Speaker 1: this faith has been a very huge factor. You know, 206 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 1: the church views divorce as a sin and not just 207 00:12:24,729 --> 00:12:27,739 Speaker 1: the Catholic church, but also the protestant churches as well. 208 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,739 Speaker 1: And they have been very vocal about this and they 209 00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:35,890 Speaker 1: have been actively spreading their message via sermons, preaches to 210 00:12:35,900 --> 00:12:39,098 Speaker 1: their congregation. There's this one church which is the most 211 00:12:39,109 --> 00:12:43,270 Speaker 1: prominent church in the Philippines, the Chiau church in Manila 212 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,390 Speaker 1: and people flock to this church every day and the 213 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:51,070 Speaker 1: church exteriors has this giant banners which reads no to 214 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,309 Speaker 1: divorce and what God has united. No man can separate 215 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:56,030 Speaker 1: something like that. 216 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,219 Speaker 1: And the church they want divorce to remain illegal and 217 00:13:01,229 --> 00:13:04,979 Speaker 1: they want to play a big role in reconciling couples 218 00:13:04,989 --> 00:13:09,140 Speaker 1: in troubled marriages. And here's my interview with Father Jerome 219 00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:13,409 Speaker 1: Silano of the Catholic Bishop Conference of the Philippines. You 220 00:13:13,419 --> 00:13:16,299 Speaker 1: did not read by a divorce. You just simply make 221 00:13:16,309 --> 00:13:17,179 Speaker 1: them all separate. 222 00:13:17,429 --> 00:13:20,059 Speaker 1: And now you allow this violent guy to marry again, 223 00:13:20,070 --> 00:13:22,780 Speaker 1: another woman and that woman is going to turn into 224 00:13:22,789 --> 00:13:26,359 Speaker 1: a punching. But later, you did not treat the problematic folks. 225 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,799 Speaker 1: If there are problematic unions, why shouldn't we? 226 00:13:31,059 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: The Turds intervene so that we can help these couples 227 00:13:34,969 --> 00:13:40,570 Speaker 1: survive the difficulties that they experience in their married life. Well, 228 00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:44,049 Speaker 1: it's no surprise then that advocates who are pushing for change, 229 00:13:44,059 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: they have targets on their backs. Your report talks about 230 00:13:47,210 --> 00:13:49,848 Speaker 1: how supporters of the bill have received not only criticism 231 00:13:49,859 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: but threats as well. 232 00:13:51,390 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: What are they afraid of? What do they think will 233 00:13:53,849 --> 00:13:56,689 Speaker 1: happen to society if this bill is passed? Well, they 234 00:13:56,700 --> 00:14:01,289 Speaker 1: fear that legalizing divorce will, first of all threaten the 235 00:14:01,299 --> 00:14:06,919 Speaker 1: sanctity of marriage, legalizing divorce. They believe will invoke God's 236 00:14:06,929 --> 00:14:10,849 Speaker 1: wrath or it will open a floodgate so wide that 237 00:14:10,859 --> 00:14:14,809 Speaker 1: everyone suddenly out of the blue wants a divorce right 238 00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:15,689 Speaker 1: away and 239 00:14:16,229 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: they also fear that it will enable gold diggers. You know, 240 00:14:21,530 --> 00:14:24,599 Speaker 1: there will be many who get married again and again 241 00:14:24,609 --> 00:14:28,219 Speaker 1: seeking alimony and the separation of assets and stuff, stuff 242 00:14:28,229 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: like that. And you're right, these activists have been bombarded 243 00:14:32,090 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: with hateful comments online but also in real life, 244 00:14:36,099 --> 00:14:39,390 Speaker 1: it is hard for them, for example, to attend high 245 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,599 Speaker 1: school reunions or family gatherings because there will always be friends, 246 00:14:44,609 --> 00:14:49,729 Speaker 1: family members, even parents, mothers and fathers who would tell 247 00:14:49,739 --> 00:14:54,260 Speaker 1: them stop what you're doing. The Philippines will never legalize divorce, 248 00:14:54,270 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: stop what you're doing right now. 249 00:14:56,330 --> 00:15:00,150 Speaker 1: Is there a plan B for example, can existing laws 250 00:15:00,159 --> 00:15:02,710 Speaker 1: be amended instead to help those that are trapped in 251 00:15:02,719 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: bad marriages? Do we need this new bill or can 252 00:15:05,330 --> 00:15:08,750 Speaker 1: things kind of move forward but just changed? Well, that 253 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,650 Speaker 1: is something that the critics has been proposing a middle 254 00:15:12,659 --> 00:15:16,390 Speaker 1: ground right now. The only solution to a about marriage 255 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,030 Speaker 1: are legal separation and annulment 256 00:15:19,330 --> 00:15:22,309 Speaker 1: in a separation means you're still married and annulment, you 257 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,659 Speaker 1: have to prove that a marriage is unlawful to begin with. 258 00:15:26,020 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: So the grounds for annulment are very limited, such as 259 00:15:30,690 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: you found out that your spouse is already married to 260 00:15:33,450 --> 00:15:36,940 Speaker 1: someone else at the time of your wedding or another 261 00:15:36,950 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: ground is that you found out later that you are 262 00:15:40,530 --> 00:15:41,919 Speaker 1: actually cousins, 263 00:15:42,030 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: for example. So you know, those are the grounds for 264 00:15:44,849 --> 00:15:47,950 Speaker 1: an annulment. Those are the only grounds for annulment. And 265 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,210 Speaker 1: the critics say like, ok, why not expand the grounds 266 00:15:51,219 --> 00:15:55,429 Speaker 1: of an annulment to include things like abuse or abandonment 267 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,570 Speaker 1: or infidelity? For some critics just don't call it divorce. 268 00:15:59,580 --> 00:16:04,349 Speaker 1: You know, we can call annulment plus or something and 269 00:16:04,359 --> 00:16:04,799 Speaker 1: you know, 270 00:16:05,239 --> 00:16:08,739 Speaker 1: so some activists are ok with this middle ground as 271 00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:11,580 Speaker 1: long as we can end our marriage, we can call 272 00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:12,260 Speaker 1: it whatever, 273 00:16:12,479 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: but some are steadfast. You know, we want divorce and 274 00:16:16,010 --> 00:16:19,309 Speaker 1: for it to be called as divorce. Let's look at 275 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,859 Speaker 1: the calendar, then this bill, it still has to be 276 00:16:21,869 --> 00:16:24,479 Speaker 1: debated has to be passed in the Senate before it 277 00:16:24,489 --> 00:16:28,159 Speaker 1: becomes law. What timeline are we looking at here? How 278 00:16:28,169 --> 00:16:30,719 Speaker 1: likely do you think it will go through the current 279 00:16:30,729 --> 00:16:36,380 Speaker 1: House of Representatives ends their term in 2025? So the 280 00:16:36,390 --> 00:16:39,270 Speaker 1: bill has to be passed before that. Otherwise they have 281 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:40,900 Speaker 1: to start from scratch again. 282 00:16:41,130 --> 00:16:43,789 Speaker 1: They have to draft the bill again. They have to 283 00:16:43,799 --> 00:16:46,419 Speaker 1: present it, they have to write letters, they have to 284 00:16:46,429 --> 00:16:49,830 Speaker 1: have open hearings, they have to vote on it. Start 285 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,390 Speaker 1: from scratch all over again. But everyone I talked to 286 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,270 Speaker 1: seems to think that there is a good chance the 287 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,539 Speaker 1: bill will be passed into law because more and more 288 00:16:59,549 --> 00:17:04,020 Speaker 1: Filipinos including some of the senators, some of the politicians 289 00:17:04,030 --> 00:17:09,149 Speaker 1: are open to the idea, including Ferdinand Bongbong Marcos Junior 290 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,189 Speaker 1: and his wife 291 00:17:10,380 --> 00:17:14,020 Speaker 1: who somewhat supports the idea but aren't willing to say 292 00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:19,260 Speaker 1: that publicly. But several organizations could still bring the case 293 00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court and challenge the constitutionality. Should it 294 00:17:24,729 --> 00:17:28,030 Speaker 1: pass the Senate and becomes law? They have in fact 295 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:28,909 Speaker 1: vowed 296 00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:32,890 Speaker 1: to bring the case to the Supreme Court. And I quote, 297 00:17:33,060 --> 00:17:38,139 Speaker 1: not even before the ink is dry on the new law. Oh, wow. 298 00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:41,459 Speaker 1: It sounds like they're so close but still so far 299 00:17:41,739 --> 00:17:44,900 Speaker 1: it's such a divisive issue, one that has passionate advocates 300 00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:47,290 Speaker 1: on both sides clearly. And it's going to be so 301 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: interesting to see what Congress decides. Thank you so much 302 00:17:50,130 --> 00:17:52,469 Speaker 1: for this nell, thanks for having me, Teresa 303 00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:56,339 Speaker 1: and a reminder that the TV, episodes of CN A 304 00:17:56,349 --> 00:17:59,829 Speaker 1: correspondent air every Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. Singapore Hong Kong 305 00:17:59,839 --> 00:18:02,739 Speaker 1: time and you can find Neville's reports on youtube as 306 00:18:02,750 --> 00:18:06,050 Speaker 1: well as on CN A dot Asia. Any time the 307 00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:09,209 Speaker 1: team behind this week's episode is Sa Wyn Clara Ong 308 00:18:09,219 --> 00:18:12,369 Speaker 1: Christina Robert Craig Dale and me, Teresa Tang. Thanks for 309 00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:13,739 Speaker 1: joining us. See you next week.