Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome back. This is the Work It podcast with Tiffany
Speaker 1: and Gerald. Now on this show, we have talked quite
Speaker 1: a bit about retrenchments and we've also spoken to people
Speaker 1: who have been retrenched before, but one thing we haven't
Speaker 1: talked about is how you can use the retrenchment payout
Speaker 1: or what's known as the golden handshake to restart your
Speaker 1: career again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this amount can be huge, right?
Speaker 2: If you don't know how to use it properly, it
Speaker 2: can disappear very quickly. So from my own experiences, I've
Speaker 2: heard of how people use it for many different reasons.
Speaker 2: They use it to cover monthly expenses during a job
Speaker 2: search or they go for holidays, they use it to
Speaker 2: start causes. I know someone who's used it to start
Speaker 2: a business. I also know someone who took his 6
Speaker 2: month package to bring his aging mother for a month-long
Speaker 2: holiday somewhere just because he felt like he didn't spend
Speaker 2: enough time with her. Yeah, so.
Speaker 2: How about you, Tiffany, do you know anyone who use
Speaker 2: their golden handshake?
Speaker 1: So it wasn't really like a very big golden handshake,
Speaker 1: but I know someone who was retrenched right after he
Speaker 1: got married. So what he did was that he just
Speaker 1: used that money and splurged it on his new wife.
Speaker 1: They went for a really solid honeymoon. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's young and he just thought, I don't know whether
Speaker 1: I'll get this opportunity again. Why not let's just go
Speaker 1: for like a month.
Speaker 1: Long holiday to somewhere we have always
Speaker 2: talked about. So there's a lot of ways to use
Speaker 2: money and sometimes when you have a lot of money,
Speaker 2: then it opens many possibilities as well. So today we
Speaker 2: really want to hear from someone who used their retrenchment
Speaker 2: package to restart or recharge their career. So with us today,
Speaker 2: I'm very happy we have Lily Fang. She was retrenched
Speaker 2: about 4 years ago. She took the leap of faith
Speaker 2: with a financial payout to embark on a career path
Speaker 2: as a financial advisory manager.
Speaker 2: Today she's helping people manage and plan their finances. Welcome
Speaker 2: Lily
Speaker 1: to the show. Thank you for having me. So Lily,
Speaker 1: we appreciate that you are coming here to tell us
Speaker 1: your story and just to give people a bit of background.
Speaker 1: So you were with your previous company for 20 years
Speaker 1: before you were retrenched. So what were your initial thoughts
Speaker 1: when you were first delivered the news? When the news
Speaker 1: actually hit me.
Speaker 1: Where I received the call from my Hong Kong CFO
Speaker 1: informing me that my role was actually made redundant because
Speaker 1: of a closure of a major line of business. If
Speaker 1: I were to describe the feeling is like, if you
Speaker 1: could imagine like a ton of bricks hitting you directly, technically,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 1: Really because I was part of the decision making process
Speaker 1: as well to close that major line of business. And
Speaker 1: also as head of finance, I understood that companies are
Speaker 1: not charitable organizations, right? Most companies exist for bottom line, right?
Speaker 1: So redundancy was just part of the equation.
Speaker 1: But then I have to say this, even knowing it
Speaker 1: didn't make it any easier. Yeah, so you could imagine
Speaker 1: my emotions back then. I would say I was devastated
Speaker 1: and disappointed as well because I spent my 20 years
Speaker 1: of youth, right, with the company. I was headhunted in
Speaker 1: this organization at the age of 28.
Speaker 1: And then by then I left them, I was 48,
Speaker 1: so literally I sold my youth to the company, right,
Speaker 1: and I was super passionate about my career.
Speaker 1: I love it all. It was more difficult for me,
Speaker 1: maybe because I felt that this job was more than
Speaker 1: a job for me, right? Because it was like a
Speaker 1: part of my identity. It was my passion, right? So
Speaker 1: knowing that this passion is going to go away, so
Speaker 1: it was quite hard for me to take it.
Speaker 2: And of course with that going away, something else came
Speaker 2: in the package that he gave to you.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's the nice part, right?
Speaker 1: Were you part of the thought process of putting together
Speaker 1: severance packages for people to sensitivity, right? But I have
Speaker 1: to say it is a good golden hand shape for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as a form of recognition as well. In the ballpark figure,
Speaker 1: I mean, we talking about a 6 digit, yeah. Is
Speaker 1: that normal? Is that sort of like standardized across the
Speaker 1: industry or even outside of this industry?
Speaker 1: To say Singapore doesn't really have a regulation on redundancy,
Speaker 1: it's more on best practice. So it ranges between for
Speaker 1: every one year service, you get a week to a month.
Speaker 1: That is average, the norm. OK.
Speaker 2: What was your immediate reaction when you knew that this
Speaker 2: was coming your way because it's not a small amount, right?
Speaker 2: What was some of the thoughts that you had about like,
Speaker 2: what do I do with this money?
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 1: For me, I didn't really think much about the money
Speaker 1: at the immediate moment, right? I am a workaholic, right? So,
Speaker 1: you know, it scares me so much that the moment
Speaker 1: I'm going to stop work, what am I going to do, right?
Speaker 1: So that was my immediate priority more so than what's
Speaker 1: to do with my money, right? But then I just
Speaker 1: want to share that being a chartered accountant myself, right?
Speaker 1: I have always been super passionate about wealth accumulation and
Speaker 1: financial security for my past 26 years of corporate life.
Speaker 1: So I did build my own financial safety net over
Speaker 1: the course of my career. Of course, this lump sum
Speaker 1: money is actually a cream on top for me.
Speaker 1: And I guess the most important combination that I would
Speaker 1: say would be, first thing first, be financially secured and
Speaker 1: I took like 26 years to build that. So that's important.
Speaker 1: So on hindsight, yes, if anybody were to ask me
Speaker 1: when I guide my younger clients, that's what I tell
Speaker 1: them to build that financial.
Speaker 1: Safety net early and then with the redundancy money that
Speaker 1: comes over and above, it's like a right where you
Speaker 1: can sort of still be able to dream and plan
Speaker 1: for more. Exactly right. So not so much dream about, oh,
Speaker 1: how do I start spending this lump sum? Can I,
Speaker 1: should I buy myself a car or what? It's not
Speaker 1: so much about that.
Speaker 1: But rather having choices in life for you. And it
Speaker 1: also gives you the ability to let's say, pursue a
Speaker 1: second passion. Maybe something that you have put aside in
Speaker 1: your younger days and then what is it that resonates
Speaker 1: with you. What is your mission? What is your purpose
Speaker 1: in life, right? That you think you could, OK, take
Speaker 1: a pause from the corporate world and then do something different.
Speaker 1: So instead of responding out of
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can react with intention. So for me, it's different, right?
Speaker 1: Because I'm in a different stage of life, if I
Speaker 1: were to say it. So if a younger generation gets
Speaker 1: hit with redundancy, it's not necessary for them to pause
Speaker 1: to say, hey, I want to go into my passion
Speaker 1: to do something different. They can still go into corporate,
Speaker 1: but at least it gives them that bandwidth to pause
Speaker 1: and think.
Speaker 1: And do their inner works to decide what they can do.
Speaker 1: So at that point of time, did you have any
Speaker 1: say aging parents to take care of? Do you have children,
Speaker 1: younger kids as well, but I have kids in uni
Speaker 1: and then I have my dad and then you have
Speaker 1: home loan that you were servicing. Yes, so how many
Speaker 1: months of emergency savings did you plan for before you
Speaker 1: had this extra bonus?
Speaker 1: OK, I think I usually hear people say 6 months.
Speaker 1: Easily I had 2 years. Wow, OK, OK. That sounds
Speaker 1: extremely healthy. Yeah, financial definitely not an issue for me.
Speaker 1: That's why I could take time, right? I literally took
Speaker 1: a year to figure out exactly what I want to do.
Speaker 1: And even after figuring out, it took me a while
Speaker 1: to search for the right organization to join, for example. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then having to sit for all the exams because
Speaker 1: it's a total.
Speaker 1: Pivot, right? Yeah. So let's talk about that. What was
Speaker 1: that pivot that you did? Why did you do it? Right.
Speaker 1: So I'm now an independent financial advisor. Back then, I
Speaker 1: have to say when the redundancy news hits me, I
Speaker 1: had two choices, right? One is to choose the safer option,
Speaker 1: which is to go back to the corporate world, find
Speaker 1: another employer. Yeah, to be a CFO in another company, right?
Speaker 1: Was it going to be
Speaker 1: Easy for you if you. Definitely easy because I was
Speaker 1: only 48 back then. So still I'm in my prime years,
Speaker 1: I have to say, right, to be a CFO in
Speaker 1: a company. So no issues with that. In fact, I
Speaker 1: went for several interviews, but then I kindly rejected their offer.
Speaker 1: Because back then I was still toying with the idea,
Speaker 1: what do I want to do in my life. I
Speaker 1: was so passionate in my previous corporate role and I
Speaker 1: know based on my personality.
Speaker 1: I'm going to chase my tail one more time. My
Speaker 1: second option is to challenge myself, to take the leap
Speaker 1: of faith to do something totally different, which was financial advisory.
Speaker 1: Was that something that you had always wanted to? Not really.
Speaker 1: I started to ask myself a few questions like how
Speaker 1: did I even decide to become a financial advisor, right?
Speaker 1: So first question that I asked myself was, how can
Speaker 1: I leverage my 26 years of very rich and solid
Speaker 1: finance experience to do something more meaningful. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to start from scratch in a totally different I didn't
Speaker 1: want to because my strength is in finance, right? So
Speaker 1: I started to ask myself those questions. What are the
Speaker 1: transferable skills? What is it?
Speaker 1: That I can do to do something more meaningful. Meaningful
Speaker 1: in my perspective back then was, how can I help
Speaker 1: individuals rather than supporting stakeholders in MNCs, for example.
Speaker 1: That's where I said, all these questions sort of came
Speaker 1: to a realization. I felt that hey, it will be
Speaker 1: so interesting if there is a qualified finance professional, literally
Speaker 1: a chartered accountant, right, out there who's been through and
Speaker 1: navigated the corporate life, right, and who understood all these
Speaker 1: corporate leaders, right?
Speaker 1: It will be so powerful if there is such a
Speaker 1: person to empower them to also start planning for their
Speaker 1: own financial road map so that
Speaker 1: One day, if uncertainties hit them, just like myself, they
Speaker 1: will be able to react with confidence rather than out
Speaker 1: of fear. So I thought, hey, that's interesting. I'm going
Speaker 1: to give that a shot, but I must ask though,
Speaker 1: because at the back of my head, I'm still thinking
Speaker 1: that OK, you had this high six figure sum, right?
Speaker 1: Did you need so much money to study, get certification
Speaker 1: in financial advisory? What else did you do with the
Speaker 1: money that you had?
Speaker 1: The truth is I took the entire lump sum and
Speaker 1: I invested it. That yeah, can be quite risky, isn't it? Oh,
Speaker 1: because I know where to place my risk, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I actually diversify my portfolio quite well and
Speaker 1: In fact, this lump sum was strategized towards capital preservation
Speaker 1: more than anything else, but the whole intention of that
Speaker 1: was to generate passive income, right? Because I wanted this
Speaker 1: lump sum money that I have worked so hard and
Speaker 1: is my sweat and blood in it, right? I want
Speaker 1: exactly and my youth in it. So I wanted that
Speaker 1: lump sum to work harder for me. So that's where
Speaker 1: I decided.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to place it in the bank and
Speaker 1: just have the comfort that I have that money. So
Speaker 1: just in case my financial advisory business fails, then I
Speaker 1: can go back to this lump sum, right? No. So
Speaker 1: to me, I think one thing is about mindset, right?
Speaker 1: So I'm the kind of person, I have gone through
Speaker 1: so many business cycles. I let the organization through success
Speaker 1: every time there is a crisis. So I told myself,
Speaker 1: I cannot fail, even if I move on to financial advisory.
Speaker 2: I'm
Speaker 2: just thinking there are 3 groups of people, the way
Speaker 2: they use the arbitration money, generally, I think it's 3 groups, right.
Speaker 2: The first group of people who take their golden handshake
Speaker 2: and they spend it very quickly away, maybe without much thought,
Speaker 2: maybe not the most useful manner, right? Then there's the
Speaker 2: middle group of people who
Speaker 2: I think the majority, they use it to do something
Speaker 2: for their careers, they transit, maybe use it to manage
Speaker 2: some of their loans, and then we have people like Lily,
Speaker 2: who had been planning their careers, their finances all the while.
Speaker 2: And then right now at this point, they are just
Speaker 2: Using the golden handshake as to open up more options
Speaker 2: for them in the
Speaker 2: future.
Speaker 1: Was there any point in time at the start where
Speaker 1: you felt that there were possible financial risks that you
Speaker 1: were going to undertake? Were there fears that you felt
Speaker 1: at that point of time? Definitely, there were fears for sure.
Speaker 1: When I made that bold leap of faith, right, it
Speaker 1: was scary, I have to say. Why scary is really
Speaker 1: because for the past 26 years, I have always been
Speaker 1: in a structured corporate environment.
Speaker 1: So having to tell myself that, hey, I'm going to
Speaker 1: get out of my comfort zone. I'm going to start
Speaker 1: all over in a new role, self-employed, totally going into
Speaker 1: the uncertainties of self-employment. It was really scary. My heart
Speaker 1: was beating super fast, right? But then again, I guess
Speaker 1: different stage of life, right? So for me, it's no
Speaker 1: longer about money anymore because if it's all about money.
Speaker 1: I would just go through the traditional route to be
Speaker 1: a CFO of another company. I just have to close
Speaker 1: my eyes, do my best. Every month I get my paycheck,
Speaker 1: you would just hit for stability, exactly, right?
Speaker 1: I asked myself, what would my next career going to
Speaker 1: look like.
Speaker 2: So Lily, if today you have to give some advice
Speaker 2: to people who have received golden handshakes, right, of various amounts,
Speaker 2: then what would be your advice to that group of people?
Speaker 2: I mean, remember I said there's 3 groups, right? Maybe
Speaker 2: the middle group, the ones who have not done much
Speaker 2: financial
Speaker 2: planning.
Speaker 1: OK. The first mindset I think is important for people
Speaker 1: who have been made redundant is to not allow redundancy
Speaker 1: to define who you are as an individual, OK?
Speaker 1: There's really no shame to it. It is part of
Speaker 1: commercial decision because I was part of it, so I
Speaker 1: knew that it needed to be done, right? And bear
Speaker 1: in mind that you have value, so do not spiral
Speaker 1: into depression or anything of that sort, right? So that's
Speaker 1: my first advice. My second advice would be, redundancy is
Speaker 1: really not the end.
Speaker 1: I call it a redirection, right? Try to leverage on
Speaker 1: your strengths and even your transferable skill sets and then
Speaker 1: see what is a good match to find your new path.
Speaker 1: And the last part which is to respond to your question, Gerald,
Speaker 1: is my advice would be try to avoid impulse spending, OK.
Speaker 1: Because I think to a lot of people, right, they
Speaker 1: hardly see such big lump sums. That's the truth, right.
Speaker 1: And when they see, they are very like tempted to
Speaker 1: just spend it very quickly, right? For people that have debts,
Speaker 1: try to look at like the high interest.
Speaker 1: debts to try to pay down some of the debts
Speaker 1: because I think it doesn't quite make sense to have
Speaker 1: money sitting in the bank that is generating so minuscule
Speaker 1: kind of interest rate and then at the back, you
Speaker 1: are still paying high interest for debts, right? Try to
Speaker 1: maneuver that.
Speaker 1: And then for people that is already quite settled, maybe
Speaker 1: they can just put aside some for rainy days, just
Speaker 1: a few months to fight them through. Try to invest
Speaker 1: the balance, but don't invest it in high risk because
Speaker 1: you want to preserve your capital. These are good advice.
Speaker 1: I mean, just to summarize, so don't impulse spend.
Speaker 1: Secondly, is to cut your debt as much as possible.
Speaker 1: But of course, weigh up the interest that you are
Speaker 1: paying because some people might say that, but the interest
Speaker 1: that I'm paying is not going to get me what
Speaker 1: I'm going to get from my investments. So which brings
Speaker 1: us to the third point, which is try and invest
Speaker 1: as much as you can, go and learn, speak to people,
Speaker 1: make sure that the money grows for you.
Speaker 1: But I think there will be a group of people
Speaker 1: who will also say, but you know, Lily, I worked
Speaker 1: so hard all my life, a bit like you as well.
Speaker 1: I want to pamper myself or I'm in my early twenties.
Speaker 1: My runway is still very long. I want to just
Speaker 1: go and splurge and I don't know, go and see
Speaker 1: the Northern Lights or go on that.
Speaker 1: Very nice train in Switzerland or whatever. I mean, should
Speaker 1: we be telling these people to delay their gratification? If
Speaker 1: I were in their shoes, I will. The reason is
Speaker 1: really because you don't want to come to a crossroad
Speaker 1: where you took all the money and spend it all
Speaker 1: very quickly.
Speaker 1: And then you realize that, oh, I'm stuck. That's when
Speaker 1: you start panicking. So once you have fear, you start panicking,
Speaker 1: you become desperate and you make wrong decisions. Exactly. When
Speaker 1: you become desperate, you will make the wrong decision to
Speaker 1: your point. So that's the whole problem and we don't
Speaker 1: want to get there because once you react out of fear,
Speaker 1: it may not necessarily be putting yourself in a good place.
Speaker 1: You want to have that safety.
Speaker 1: so that you can take your time to really do
Speaker 1: your inner works as well and network to get to
Speaker 1: know more people, speak with more people to see what
Speaker 1: is the right next game plan for you. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on and sharing with us this.
Speaker 1: I mean, if anything, I feel that if I ever
Speaker 1: am in that position, I would love to speak with
Speaker 1: you again and go, what should I do, you know,
Speaker 1: with this money? Obvious.
Speaker 1: we try and give our listeners a bit more broad
Speaker 1: brushstrokes of what they can do with their money, but
Speaker 1: everyone's situation is very unique and like you say, sit down,
Speaker 1: ask yourself, where are you at this stage of your life?
Speaker 1: What are your needs and where can you better deploy
Speaker 1: the money first before you start considering, OK, what else
Speaker 1: can I do? So thank you for giving us so
Speaker 1: many helpful tips. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Hi, welcome back to our Ask Me Anything segment where
Speaker 1: we take on a question that you have sent us.
Speaker 1: Our listener who I'll call Lucy sent us this one.
Speaker 1: Lucy is in a small team of about 8 people.
Speaker 1: Everyone is working in a high pressured environment with long
Speaker 1: working hours. It's a specialist job and they have been
Speaker 1: asking for more manpower because they're afraid to make mistakes.
Speaker 1: Several mistakes have already been made because people are overworked.
Speaker 1: As a result, the team has been subjected to a
Speaker 1: few internal audits and they're just told to do better.
Speaker 1: Now when they highlighted that they need help, management shuts
Speaker 1: them down according to Lucy, and calls a few of
Speaker 1: them troublemakers. Lucy is asking if middle management is not
Speaker 1: listening to them and there are problems caused by a
Speaker 1: manpower shortage.
Speaker 1: How can they escalate this and to whom?
Speaker 2: I think the situation here is that they have escalated it,
Speaker 2: but the middle management is not listening. So when I
Speaker 2: read this question, right, I just thought to myself like, wow,
Speaker 2: I feel for Lucy and the team because it sounds
Speaker 2: like they are really trying their best.
Speaker 2: But they're not getting the support from the management. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then do I whistle blow? Do I go higher up?
Speaker 1: Because I think a lot of people do wonder whether
Speaker 1: the higher ups know that there is an issue and
Speaker 1: they're also trying to cover up, then it's going to
Speaker 1: be even worse.
Speaker 2: So I think at this point,
Speaker 2: It really depends on how much faith Lucy has in
Speaker 2: her management. The highest one, because there are sometimes management
Speaker 2: they know, but they don't want to respond or they're
Speaker 2: not responding appropriately. So the issue is not with not knowing,
Speaker 2: but the issue is that management is not stepping up
Speaker 2: to do what needs to be done. So if I'm Lucy, right?
Speaker 2: I would say I would look at the management's responses.
Speaker 2: Is it that the leaders that are there, are they
Speaker 2: close to the ground? You know, if they're close to
Speaker 2: the ground and if they are really caring about the
Speaker 2: operations and the work that they do, right, then maybe
Speaker 2: there's a chance that I can look for the right
Speaker 2: leader to speak to. You also know that there are
Speaker 2: leaders who are just on the ground for tokenism, just
Speaker 2: to show face. They're not really caring about the workers.
Speaker 2: So I think she needs to see other such people,
Speaker 2: such managers in the office.
Speaker 2: I think also in many companies they have got employee sentiment,
Speaker 2: engagement surveys. Has there been certain things like they've done
Speaker 2: before and
Speaker 1: feedback loops as well. Yes, there been things that have
Speaker 1: been mentioned a few times.
Speaker 2: So usually like from my experiences, people do give feedback,
Speaker 2: but they get very disappointed and discouraged when the feedback
Speaker 2: is not acted on.
Speaker 2: And year after year, the same thing happens. I'm guessing
Speaker 2: here that Lucy's situation is not the first time. I
Speaker 2: believe that this has been repeated for a particular amount
Speaker 2: of time already and maybe it's getting like too much talk,
Speaker 2: no action, and nobody seems to be bothered, and yet
Speaker 2: they are the ones who have to face the consequences.
Speaker 1: OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I hear
Speaker 1: that Lucy saying that they were subjected to a few
Speaker 1: internal audits.
Speaker 1: And these internal audits have shown that they could be
Speaker 1: doing better. So from the management's point of view, there
Speaker 1: is no problem in terms of a manpower shortage. So
Speaker 1: what exactly is wrong in this
Speaker 1: situation?
Speaker 2: So when internal audits flag out things, right, then it's
Speaker 2: supposed to send management into investigation and mitigation mode. They
Speaker 2: start to look out for what's the issue? What's the
Speaker 2: root cause? Is it manpower, is it?
Speaker 2: Sources, is it a policy or process issue. And they
Speaker 2: found
Speaker 1: that there's nothing. It's just that the team has to
Speaker 1: just do better, that's what they say.
Speaker 2: So I'm just wondering why is there that the ground
Speaker 2: feedback that it's not enough manpower and the lack of
Speaker 2: manpower is causing all these mistakes to be made. So
Speaker 2: somewhere along the line we can see that between the
Speaker 2: management and the ground staff right there is this there's
Speaker 2: a disconnect disconnect, there's a mistrust and
Speaker 2: If this carries on, right, I think it's just going
Speaker 2: to make work very unbearable. Yeah. So at this point
Speaker 2: of time for Lucy's case, I think it's either you
Speaker 2: stand your ground and you try to hope for the best,
Speaker 2: look at the leaders that you have and try to
Speaker 2: see whether you get to the right person or wait
Speaker 2: for the right opportunity for things to change. That's one.
Speaker 2: The other one is, of course, you leave, you find
Speaker 2: another place where you can contribute meaningfully because I think
Speaker 2: she loves her work. Yeah, so find a place where
Speaker 2: you can perform, you can do your role without all
Speaker 2: these situations and environmental factors.
Speaker 2: Of course, there's also a third thing, right? Some people
Speaker 2: would say, you should be the change. You should stay
Speaker 2: on and you know the issues well, raise your hand
Speaker 2: volunteer to try to solve it, but that's a long shot. Whistleblowing,
Speaker 2: whistle blowing, if the policy is there and if the
Speaker 2: management is indeed serious about it. My own gut feel
Speaker 2: from this is that they know, but they're not doing
Speaker 2: anything about it and they're just pushing the blame down
Speaker 2: and letting the people on the ground shoulder it. So
Speaker 2: if that's the kind of response from the management then.
Speaker 2: No amount of blowing our feedback will help.
Speaker 1: OK. Well, Lucy, I hope that your situation turns for
Speaker 1: the better and I hope our conversation perhaps will even
Speaker 1: give you the right tools to advocate for yourself or
Speaker 1: your team. If like Lucy, you have a work related question,
Speaker 1: do send it to us. We are at CNA podcasts
Speaker 1: at Medcorp.com.sg. We are also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Meliten
Speaker 1: and YouTube where a video version of this is at.
Speaker 1: The team behind the Work It podcast is Christina Robert,
Speaker 1: Joanne Chan, Juanini Johari and Sai Ye Win. Sound mixing
Speaker 1: is by Carrie Lim, video by Hanida Amin. I'm Gerald
Speaker 1: and I'm Tiffany. Have a smooth work week ahead.