1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,679 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:10,170 --> 00:00:13,409 Speaker 1: Welcome back. This is the Work It podcast with Tiffany 3 00:00:13,409 --> 00:00:16,729 Speaker 1: and Gerald. Now on this show, we have talked quite 4 00:00:16,729 --> 00:00:19,849 Speaker 1: a bit about retrenchments and we've also spoken to people 5 00:00:19,850 --> 00:00:23,489 Speaker 1: who have been retrenched before, but one thing we haven't 6 00:00:23,489 --> 00:00:27,799 Speaker 1: talked about is how you can use the retrenchment payout 7 00:00:27,799 --> 00:00:31,370 Speaker 1: or what's known as the golden handshake to restart your 8 00:00:31,370 --> 00:00:32,060 Speaker 1: career again. 9 00:00:32,209 --> 00:00:34,029 Speaker 2: Yeah, this amount can be huge, right? 10 00:00:34,330 --> 00:00:35,799 Speaker 2: If you don't know how to use it properly, it 11 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:38,758 Speaker 2: can disappear very quickly. So from my own experiences, I've 12 00:00:38,759 --> 00:00:40,949 Speaker 2: heard of how people use it for many different reasons. 13 00:00:41,319 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 2: They use it to cover monthly expenses during a job 14 00:00:43,959 --> 00:00:46,439 Speaker 2: search or they go for holidays, they use it to 15 00:00:46,439 --> 00:00:48,689 Speaker 2: start causes. I know someone who's used it to start 16 00:00:48,689 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 2: a business. I also know someone who took his 6 17 00:00:51,279 --> 00:00:54,439 Speaker 2: month package to bring his aging mother for a month-long 18 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:57,130 Speaker 2: holiday somewhere just because he felt like he didn't spend 19 00:00:57,130 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: enough time with her. Yeah, so. 20 00:00:58,849 --> 00:01:00,430 Speaker 2: How about you, Tiffany, do you know anyone who use 21 00:01:00,430 --> 00:01:01,509 Speaker 2: their golden handshake? 22 00:01:01,669 --> 00:01:03,830 Speaker 1: So it wasn't really like a very big golden handshake, 23 00:01:03,869 --> 00:01:06,949 Speaker 1: but I know someone who was retrenched right after he 24 00:01:06,949 --> 00:01:10,230 Speaker 1: got married. So what he did was that he just 25 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:12,580 Speaker 1: used that money and splurged it on his new wife. 26 00:01:12,790 --> 00:01:15,830 Speaker 1: They went for a really solid honeymoon. Yeah, I mean, 27 00:01:15,870 --> 00:01:18,789 Speaker 1: he's young and he just thought, I don't know whether 28 00:01:18,790 --> 00:01:21,900 Speaker 1: I'll get this opportunity again. Why not let's just go 29 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:22,790 Speaker 1: for like a month. 30 00:01:22,870 --> 00:01:24,779 Speaker 1: Long holiday to somewhere we have always 31 00:01:24,779 --> 00:01:27,500 Speaker 2: talked about. So there's a lot of ways to use 32 00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:28,889 Speaker 2: money and sometimes when you have a lot of money, 33 00:01:28,980 --> 00:01:31,459 Speaker 2: then it opens many possibilities as well. So today we 34 00:01:31,459 --> 00:01:34,019 Speaker 2: really want to hear from someone who used their retrenchment 35 00:01:34,019 --> 00:01:37,300 Speaker 2: package to restart or recharge their career. So with us today, 36 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,669 Speaker 2: I'm very happy we have Lily Fang. She was retrenched 37 00:01:39,669 --> 00:01:42,260 Speaker 2: about 4 years ago. She took the leap of faith 38 00:01:42,260 --> 00:01:44,970 Speaker 2: with a financial payout to embark on a career path 39 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:47,019 Speaker 2: as a financial advisory manager. 40 00:01:47,430 --> 00:01:50,110 Speaker 2: Today she's helping people manage and plan their finances. Welcome 41 00:01:50,110 --> 00:01:50,260 Speaker 2: Lily 42 00:01:50,260 --> 00:01:52,379 Speaker 1: to the show. Thank you for having me. So Lily, 43 00:01:52,419 --> 00:01:54,739 Speaker 1: we appreciate that you are coming here to tell us 44 00:01:54,739 --> 00:01:57,410 Speaker 1: your story and just to give people a bit of background. 45 00:01:57,669 --> 00:02:01,029 Speaker 1: So you were with your previous company for 20 years 46 00:02:01,029 --> 00:02:04,139 Speaker 1: before you were retrenched. So what were your initial thoughts 47 00:02:04,139 --> 00:02:07,220 Speaker 1: when you were first delivered the news? When the news 48 00:02:07,220 --> 00:02:08,149 Speaker 1: actually hit me. 49 00:02:08,401 --> 00:02:12,233 Speaker 1: Where I received the call from my Hong Kong CFO 50 00:02:12,233 --> 00:02:16,161 Speaker 1: informing me that my role was actually made redundant because 51 00:02:16,162 --> 00:02:19,483 Speaker 1: of a closure of a major line of business. If 52 00:02:19,483 --> 00:02:22,003 Speaker 1: I were to describe the feeling is like, if you 53 00:02:22,002 --> 00:02:27,712 Speaker 1: could imagine like a ton of bricks hitting you directly, technically, 54 00:02:27,843 --> 00:02:29,042 Speaker 1: I shouldn't be surprised. 55 00:02:29,906 --> 00:02:34,106 Speaker 1: Really because I was part of the decision making process 56 00:02:34,106 --> 00:02:38,025 Speaker 1: as well to close that major line of business. And 57 00:02:38,026 --> 00:02:41,746 Speaker 1: also as head of finance, I understood that companies are 58 00:02:41,746 --> 00:02:47,195 Speaker 1: not charitable organizations, right? Most companies exist for bottom line, right? 59 00:02:47,296 --> 00:02:49,985 Speaker 1: So redundancy was just part of the equation. 60 00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:53,418 Speaker 1: But then I have to say this, even knowing it 61 00:02:53,419 --> 00:02:56,910 Speaker 1: didn't make it any easier. Yeah, so you could imagine 62 00:02:56,910 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: my emotions back then. I would say I was devastated 63 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,429 Speaker 1: and disappointed as well because I spent my 20 years 64 00:03:05,429 --> 00:03:09,929 Speaker 1: of youth, right, with the company. I was headhunted in 65 00:03:09,929 --> 00:03:11,859 Speaker 1: this organization at the age of 28. 66 00:03:12,229 --> 00:03:14,490 Speaker 1: And then by then I left them, I was 48, 67 00:03:14,758 --> 00:03:17,758 Speaker 1: so literally I sold my youth to the company, right, 68 00:03:17,899 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: and I was super passionate about my career. 69 00:03:20,929 --> 00:03:24,460 Speaker 1: I love it all. It was more difficult for me, 70 00:03:24,669 --> 00:03:28,259 Speaker 1: maybe because I felt that this job was more than 71 00:03:28,258 --> 00:03:31,429 Speaker 1: a job for me, right? Because it was like a 72 00:03:31,429 --> 00:03:34,678 Speaker 1: part of my identity. It was my passion, right? So 73 00:03:34,679 --> 00:03:37,550 Speaker 1: knowing that this passion is going to go away, so 74 00:03:37,550 --> 00:03:39,779 Speaker 1: it was quite hard for me to take it. 75 00:03:39,869 --> 00:03:42,029 Speaker 2: And of course with that going away, something else came 76 00:03:42,029 --> 00:03:43,330 Speaker 2: in the package that he gave to you. 77 00:03:44,350 --> 00:03:45,509 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's the nice part, right? 78 00:03:45,602 --> 00:03:48,421 Speaker 1: Were you part of the thought process of putting together 79 00:03:48,421 --> 00:03:53,231 Speaker 1: severance packages for people to sensitivity, right? But I have 80 00:03:53,231 --> 00:03:57,272 Speaker 1: to say it is a good golden hand shape for me. Yeah, 81 00:03:57,552 --> 00:04:00,561 Speaker 1: as a form of recognition as well. In the ballpark figure, 82 00:04:00,591 --> 00:04:04,031 Speaker 1: I mean, we talking about a 6 digit, yeah. Is 83 00:04:04,031 --> 00:04:07,951 Speaker 1: that normal? Is that sort of like standardized across the 84 00:04:07,951 --> 00:04:09,632 Speaker 1: industry or even outside of this industry? 85 00:04:10,283 --> 00:04:15,544 Speaker 1: To say Singapore doesn't really have a regulation on redundancy, 86 00:04:15,794 --> 00:04:20,394 Speaker 1: it's more on best practice. So it ranges between for 87 00:04:20,394 --> 00:04:23,704 Speaker 1: every one year service, you get a week to a month. 88 00:04:24,313 --> 00:04:26,074 Speaker 1: That is average, the norm. OK. 89 00:04:26,334 --> 00:04:28,402 Speaker 2: What was your immediate reaction when you knew that this 90 00:04:28,403 --> 00:04:30,772 Speaker 2: was coming your way because it's not a small amount, right? 91 00:04:30,873 --> 00:04:32,962 Speaker 2: What was some of the thoughts that you had about like, 92 00:04:32,993 --> 00:04:33,903 Speaker 2: what do I do with this money? 93 00:04:34,194 --> 00:04:34,433 Speaker 1: Sure. 94 00:04:34,966 --> 00:04:38,635 Speaker 1: For me, I didn't really think much about the money 95 00:04:38,635 --> 00:04:44,614 Speaker 1: at the immediate moment, right? I am a workaholic, right? So, 96 00:04:44,915 --> 00:04:47,675 Speaker 1: you know, it scares me so much that the moment 97 00:04:47,675 --> 00:04:50,335 Speaker 1: I'm going to stop work, what am I going to do, right? 98 00:04:50,635 --> 00:04:53,354 Speaker 1: So that was my immediate priority more so than what's 99 00:04:53,355 --> 00:04:56,026 Speaker 1: to do with my money, right? But then I just 100 00:04:56,026 --> 00:04:59,555 Speaker 1: want to share that being a chartered accountant myself, right? 101 00:04:59,809 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: I have always been super passionate about wealth accumulation and 102 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,899 Speaker 1: financial security for my past 26 years of corporate life. 103 00:05:09,238 --> 00:05:14,109 Speaker 1: So I did build my own financial safety net over 104 00:05:14,109 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: the course of my career. Of course, this lump sum 105 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,190 Speaker 1: money is actually a cream on top for me. 106 00:05:20,601 --> 00:05:24,631 Speaker 1: And I guess the most important combination that I would 107 00:05:24,632 --> 00:05:29,312 Speaker 1: say would be, first thing first, be financially secured and 108 00:05:29,312 --> 00:05:32,822 Speaker 1: I took like 26 years to build that. So that's important. 109 00:05:33,153 --> 00:05:35,743 Speaker 1: So on hindsight, yes, if anybody were to ask me 110 00:05:35,743 --> 00:05:39,233 Speaker 1: when I guide my younger clients, that's what I tell 111 00:05:39,233 --> 00:05:41,311 Speaker 1: them to build that financial. 112 00:05:41,505 --> 00:05:45,145 Speaker 1: Safety net early and then with the redundancy money that 113 00:05:45,145 --> 00:05:48,865 Speaker 1: comes over and above, it's like a right where you 114 00:05:48,865 --> 00:05:52,186 Speaker 1: can sort of still be able to dream and plan 115 00:05:52,186 --> 00:05:56,196 Speaker 1: for more. Exactly right. So not so much dream about, oh, 116 00:05:56,425 --> 00:05:58,985 Speaker 1: how do I start spending this lump sum? Can I, 117 00:05:59,065 --> 00:06:01,226 Speaker 1: should I buy myself a car or what? It's not 118 00:06:01,226 --> 00:06:02,066 Speaker 1: so much about that. 119 00:06:02,380 --> 00:06:05,950 Speaker 1: But rather having choices in life for you. And it 120 00:06:05,950 --> 00:06:08,350 Speaker 1: also gives you the ability to let's say, pursue a 121 00:06:08,350 --> 00:06:11,309 Speaker 1: second passion. Maybe something that you have put aside in 122 00:06:11,309 --> 00:06:14,308 Speaker 1: your younger days and then what is it that resonates 123 00:06:14,309 --> 00:06:16,868 Speaker 1: with you. What is your mission? What is your purpose 124 00:06:16,869 --> 00:06:19,869 Speaker 1: in life, right? That you think you could, OK, take 125 00:06:19,869 --> 00:06:24,059 Speaker 1: a pause from the corporate world and then do something different. 126 00:06:24,269 --> 00:06:26,519 Speaker 1: So instead of responding out of 127 00:06:26,565 --> 00:06:31,195 Speaker 1: Yeah, we can react with intention. So for me, it's different, right? 128 00:06:31,394 --> 00:06:34,755 Speaker 1: Because I'm in a different stage of life, if I 129 00:06:34,755 --> 00:06:38,154 Speaker 1: were to say it. So if a younger generation gets 130 00:06:38,154 --> 00:06:41,355 Speaker 1: hit with redundancy, it's not necessary for them to pause 131 00:06:41,355 --> 00:06:43,034 Speaker 1: to say, hey, I want to go into my passion 132 00:06:43,035 --> 00:06:45,625 Speaker 1: to do something different. They can still go into corporate, 133 00:06:45,834 --> 00:06:49,914 Speaker 1: but at least it gives them that bandwidth to pause 134 00:06:49,915 --> 00:06:50,725 Speaker 1: and think. 135 00:06:50,950 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: And do their inner works to decide what they can do. 136 00:06:53,970 --> 00:06:56,209 Speaker 1: So at that point of time, did you have any 137 00:06:56,209 --> 00:06:58,959 Speaker 1: say aging parents to take care of? Do you have children, 138 00:07:02,410 --> 00:07:05,659 Speaker 1: younger kids as well, but I have kids in uni 139 00:07:05,660 --> 00:07:09,130 Speaker 1: and then I have my dad and then you have 140 00:07:09,130 --> 00:07:11,929 Speaker 1: home loan that you were servicing. Yes, so how many 141 00:07:11,929 --> 00:07:15,929 Speaker 1: months of emergency savings did you plan for before you 142 00:07:15,929 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: had this extra bonus? 143 00:07:18,552 --> 00:07:21,351 Speaker 1: OK, I think I usually hear people say 6 months. 144 00:07:21,462 --> 00:07:25,971 Speaker 1: Easily I had 2 years. Wow, OK, OK. That sounds 145 00:07:26,261 --> 00:07:29,782 Speaker 1: extremely healthy. Yeah, financial definitely not an issue for me. 146 00:07:29,861 --> 00:07:32,902 Speaker 1: That's why I could take time, right? I literally took 147 00:07:32,902 --> 00:07:35,902 Speaker 1: a year to figure out exactly what I want to do. 148 00:07:36,462 --> 00:07:39,432 Speaker 1: And even after figuring out, it took me a while 149 00:07:39,432 --> 00:07:42,631 Speaker 1: to search for the right organization to join, for example. Yeah, 150 00:07:42,742 --> 00:07:45,381 Speaker 1: and then having to sit for all the exams because 151 00:07:45,381 --> 00:07:46,022 Speaker 1: it's a total. 152 00:07:46,164 --> 00:07:49,114 Speaker 1: Pivot, right? Yeah. So let's talk about that. What was 153 00:07:49,114 --> 00:07:52,223 Speaker 1: that pivot that you did? Why did you do it? Right. 154 00:07:52,593 --> 00:07:58,273 Speaker 1: So I'm now an independent financial advisor. Back then, I 155 00:07:58,273 --> 00:08:01,794 Speaker 1: have to say when the redundancy news hits me, I 156 00:08:01,794 --> 00:08:06,864 Speaker 1: had two choices, right? One is to choose the safer option, 157 00:08:07,153 --> 00:08:09,794 Speaker 1: which is to go back to the corporate world, find 158 00:08:09,794 --> 00:08:13,243 Speaker 1: another employer. Yeah, to be a CFO in another company, right? 159 00:08:13,364 --> 00:08:13,723 Speaker 1: Was it going to be 160 00:08:13,776 --> 00:08:17,526 Speaker 1: Easy for you if you. Definitely easy because I was 161 00:08:17,526 --> 00:08:21,045 Speaker 1: only 48 back then. So still I'm in my prime years, 162 00:08:21,165 --> 00:08:22,965 Speaker 1: I have to say, right, to be a CFO in 163 00:08:22,966 --> 00:08:25,686 Speaker 1: a company. So no issues with that. In fact, I 164 00:08:25,686 --> 00:08:30,885 Speaker 1: went for several interviews, but then I kindly rejected their offer. 165 00:08:31,365 --> 00:08:34,684 Speaker 1: Because back then I was still toying with the idea, 166 00:08:34,726 --> 00:08:36,926 Speaker 1: what do I want to do in my life. I 167 00:08:36,926 --> 00:08:39,645 Speaker 1: was so passionate in my previous corporate role and I 168 00:08:39,645 --> 00:08:41,245 Speaker 1: know based on my personality. 169 00:08:41,739 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: I'm going to chase my tail one more time. My 170 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: second option is to challenge myself, to take the leap 171 00:08:48,439 --> 00:08:52,708 Speaker 1: of faith to do something totally different, which was financial advisory. 172 00:08:53,158 --> 00:08:56,749 Speaker 1: Was that something that you had always wanted to? Not really. 173 00:08:56,879 --> 00:08:59,278 Speaker 1: I started to ask myself a few questions like how 174 00:08:59,278 --> 00:09:02,718 Speaker 1: did I even decide to become a financial advisor, right? 175 00:09:03,049 --> 00:09:06,549 Speaker 1: So first question that I asked myself was, how can 176 00:09:06,549 --> 00:09:11,119 Speaker 1: I leverage my 26 years of very rich and solid 177 00:09:11,119 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: finance experience to do something more meaningful. I didn't want 178 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,799 Speaker 1: to start from scratch in a totally different I didn't 179 00:09:18,799 --> 00:09:22,460 Speaker 1: want to because my strength is in finance, right? So 180 00:09:22,460 --> 00:09:25,340 Speaker 1: I started to ask myself those questions. What are the 181 00:09:25,340 --> 00:09:27,039 Speaker 1: transferable skills? What is it? 182 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,358 Speaker 1: That I can do to do something more meaningful. Meaningful 183 00:09:31,359 --> 00:09:35,429 Speaker 1: in my perspective back then was, how can I help 184 00:09:35,429 --> 00:09:41,179 Speaker 1: individuals rather than supporting stakeholders in MNCs, for example. 185 00:09:41,510 --> 00:09:44,809 Speaker 1: That's where I said, all these questions sort of came 186 00:09:44,809 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: to a realization. I felt that hey, it will be 187 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:54,289 Speaker 1: so interesting if there is a qualified finance professional, literally 188 00:09:54,289 --> 00:09:59,289 Speaker 1: a chartered accountant, right, out there who's been through and 189 00:09:59,289 --> 00:10:03,530 Speaker 1: navigated the corporate life, right, and who understood all these 190 00:10:03,530 --> 00:10:05,130 Speaker 1: corporate leaders, right? 191 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: It will be so powerful if there is such a 192 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:13,159 Speaker 1: person to empower them to also start planning for their 193 00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:15,159 Speaker 1: own financial road map so that 194 00:10:15,570 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 1: One day, if uncertainties hit them, just like myself, they 195 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: will be able to react with confidence rather than out 196 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,119 Speaker 1: of fear. So I thought, hey, that's interesting. I'm going 197 00:10:26,119 --> 00:10:28,669 Speaker 1: to give that a shot, but I must ask though, 198 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: because at the back of my head, I'm still thinking 199 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: that OK, you had this high six figure sum, right? 200 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: Did you need so much money to study, get certification 201 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: in financial advisory? What else did you do with the 202 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: money that you had? 203 00:10:42,119 --> 00:10:45,010 Speaker 1: The truth is I took the entire lump sum and 204 00:10:45,010 --> 00:10:47,968 Speaker 1: I invested it. That yeah, can be quite risky, isn't it? Oh, 205 00:10:48,169 --> 00:10:50,750 Speaker 1: because I know where to place my risk, right? Yeah. 206 00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:56,049 Speaker 1: So I actually diversify my portfolio quite well and 207 00:10:56,419 --> 00:11:01,659 Speaker 1: In fact, this lump sum was strategized towards capital preservation 208 00:11:01,659 --> 00:11:05,059 Speaker 1: more than anything else, but the whole intention of that 209 00:11:05,059 --> 00:11:10,459 Speaker 1: was to generate passive income, right? Because I wanted this 210 00:11:10,460 --> 00:11:13,580 Speaker 1: lump sum money that I have worked so hard and 211 00:11:13,580 --> 00:11:16,909 Speaker 1: is my sweat and blood in it, right? I want 212 00:11:17,460 --> 00:11:19,940 Speaker 1: exactly and my youth in it. So I wanted that 213 00:11:19,940 --> 00:11:23,140 Speaker 1: lump sum to work harder for me. So that's where 214 00:11:23,140 --> 00:11:23,739 Speaker 1: I decided. 215 00:11:23,815 --> 00:11:25,804 Speaker 1: I'm not going to place it in the bank and 216 00:11:25,804 --> 00:11:29,005 Speaker 1: just have the comfort that I have that money. So 217 00:11:29,005 --> 00:11:33,484 Speaker 1: just in case my financial advisory business fails, then I 218 00:11:33,484 --> 00:11:36,125 Speaker 1: can go back to this lump sum, right? No. So 219 00:11:36,125 --> 00:11:38,544 Speaker 1: to me, I think one thing is about mindset, right? 220 00:11:38,655 --> 00:11:41,794 Speaker 1: So I'm the kind of person, I have gone through 221 00:11:41,794 --> 00:11:47,804 Speaker 1: so many business cycles. I let the organization through success 222 00:11:47,804 --> 00:11:51,174 Speaker 1: every time there is a crisis. So I told myself, 223 00:11:51,609 --> 00:11:56,299 Speaker 1: I cannot fail, even if I move on to financial advisory. 224 00:11:56,450 --> 00:11:56,630 Speaker 2: I'm 225 00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:58,348 Speaker 2: just thinking there are 3 groups of people, the way 226 00:11:58,349 --> 00:12:00,859 Speaker 2: they use the arbitration money, generally, I think it's 3 groups, right. 227 00:12:00,869 --> 00:12:03,429 Speaker 2: The first group of people who take their golden handshake 228 00:12:03,429 --> 00:12:07,429 Speaker 2: and they spend it very quickly away, maybe without much thought, 229 00:12:08,030 --> 00:12:10,030 Speaker 2: maybe not the most useful manner, right? Then there's the 230 00:12:10,030 --> 00:12:11,289 Speaker 2: middle group of people who 231 00:12:11,489 --> 00:12:14,030 Speaker 2: I think the majority, they use it to do something 232 00:12:14,030 --> 00:12:16,950 Speaker 2: for their careers, they transit, maybe use it to manage 233 00:12:16,950 --> 00:12:19,589 Speaker 2: some of their loans, and then we have people like Lily, 234 00:12:19,989 --> 00:12:24,119 Speaker 2: who had been planning their careers, their finances all the while. 235 00:12:24,549 --> 00:12:26,609 Speaker 2: And then right now at this point, they are just 236 00:12:26,659 --> 00:12:29,090 Speaker 2: Using the golden handshake as to open up more options 237 00:12:29,090 --> 00:12:29,590 Speaker 2: for them in the 238 00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 2: future. 239 00:12:30,010 --> 00:12:32,209 Speaker 1: Was there any point in time at the start where 240 00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:35,369 Speaker 1: you felt that there were possible financial risks that you 241 00:12:35,369 --> 00:12:38,570 Speaker 1: were going to undertake? Were there fears that you felt 242 00:12:38,570 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: at that point of time? Definitely, there were fears for sure. 243 00:12:42,169 --> 00:12:45,530 Speaker 1: When I made that bold leap of faith, right, it 244 00:12:45,530 --> 00:12:48,690 Speaker 1: was scary, I have to say. Why scary is really 245 00:12:48,690 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: because for the past 26 years, I have always been 246 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,570 Speaker 1: in a structured corporate environment. 247 00:12:56,070 --> 00:12:59,478 Speaker 1: So having to tell myself that, hey, I'm going to 248 00:12:59,479 --> 00:13:02,190 Speaker 1: get out of my comfort zone. I'm going to start 249 00:13:02,190 --> 00:13:07,598 Speaker 1: all over in a new role, self-employed, totally going into 250 00:13:07,599 --> 00:13:11,718 Speaker 1: the uncertainties of self-employment. It was really scary. My heart 251 00:13:11,719 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: was beating super fast, right? But then again, I guess 252 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,718 Speaker 1: different stage of life, right? So for me, it's no 253 00:13:18,719 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: longer about money anymore because if it's all about money. 254 00:13:22,809 --> 00:13:26,179 Speaker 1: I would just go through the traditional route to be 255 00:13:26,179 --> 00:13:29,189 Speaker 1: a CFO of another company. I just have to close 256 00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:32,109 Speaker 1: my eyes, do my best. Every month I get my paycheck, 257 00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:34,789 Speaker 1: you would just hit for stability, exactly, right? 258 00:13:35,219 --> 00:13:38,590 Speaker 1: I asked myself, what would my next career going to 259 00:13:38,590 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: look like. 260 00:13:39,549 --> 00:13:41,500 Speaker 2: So Lily, if today you have to give some advice 261 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:46,219 Speaker 2: to people who have received golden handshakes, right, of various amounts, 262 00:13:46,289 --> 00:13:48,348 Speaker 2: then what would be your advice to that group of people? 263 00:13:48,390 --> 00:13:50,510 Speaker 2: I mean, remember I said there's 3 groups, right? Maybe 264 00:13:50,510 --> 00:13:52,869 Speaker 2: the middle group, the ones who have not done much 265 00:13:52,869 --> 00:13:53,150 Speaker 2: financial 266 00:13:53,150 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: planning. 267 00:13:53,669 --> 00:13:56,789 Speaker 1: OK. The first mindset I think is important for people 268 00:13:56,789 --> 00:14:00,819 Speaker 1: who have been made redundant is to not allow redundancy 269 00:14:00,820 --> 00:14:04,260 Speaker 1: to define who you are as an individual, OK? 270 00:14:04,669 --> 00:14:07,949 Speaker 1: There's really no shame to it. It is part of 271 00:14:07,950 --> 00:14:10,909 Speaker 1: commercial decision because I was part of it, so I 272 00:14:10,909 --> 00:14:14,469 Speaker 1: knew that it needed to be done, right? And bear 273 00:14:14,469 --> 00:14:17,750 Speaker 1: in mind that you have value, so do not spiral 274 00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:21,109 Speaker 1: into depression or anything of that sort, right? So that's 275 00:14:21,109 --> 00:14:26,030 Speaker 1: my first advice. My second advice would be, redundancy is 276 00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:27,059 Speaker 1: really not the end. 277 00:14:27,289 --> 00:14:31,210 Speaker 1: I call it a redirection, right? Try to leverage on 278 00:14:31,349 --> 00:14:35,869 Speaker 1: your strengths and even your transferable skill sets and then 279 00:14:35,869 --> 00:14:38,460 Speaker 1: see what is a good match to find your new path. 280 00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:42,070 Speaker 1: And the last part which is to respond to your question, Gerald, 281 00:14:42,109 --> 00:14:47,150 Speaker 1: is my advice would be try to avoid impulse spending, OK. 282 00:14:47,609 --> 00:14:49,950 Speaker 1: Because I think to a lot of people, right, they 283 00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:52,979 Speaker 1: hardly see such big lump sums. That's the truth, right. 284 00:14:53,690 --> 00:14:56,950 Speaker 1: And when they see, they are very like tempted to 285 00:14:56,950 --> 00:15:01,090 Speaker 1: just spend it very quickly, right? For people that have debts, 286 00:15:01,429 --> 00:15:04,140 Speaker 1: try to look at like the high interest. 287 00:15:04,784 --> 00:15:07,424 Speaker 1: debts to try to pay down some of the debts 288 00:15:07,424 --> 00:15:10,585 Speaker 1: because I think it doesn't quite make sense to have 289 00:15:10,585 --> 00:15:14,784 Speaker 1: money sitting in the bank that is generating so minuscule 290 00:15:14,784 --> 00:15:16,864 Speaker 1: kind of interest rate and then at the back, you 291 00:15:16,864 --> 00:15:20,344 Speaker 1: are still paying high interest for debts, right? Try to 292 00:15:20,344 --> 00:15:21,104 Speaker 1: maneuver that. 293 00:15:21,700 --> 00:15:25,309 Speaker 1: And then for people that is already quite settled, maybe 294 00:15:25,309 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: they can just put aside some for rainy days, just 295 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,159 Speaker 1: a few months to fight them through. Try to invest 296 00:15:32,159 --> 00:15:35,590 Speaker 1: the balance, but don't invest it in high risk because 297 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: you want to preserve your capital. These are good advice. 298 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,669 Speaker 1: I mean, just to summarize, so don't impulse spend. 299 00:15:42,015 --> 00:15:46,044 Speaker 1: Secondly, is to cut your debt as much as possible. 300 00:15:46,255 --> 00:15:48,125 Speaker 1: But of course, weigh up the interest that you are 301 00:15:48,125 --> 00:15:50,375 Speaker 1: paying because some people might say that, but the interest 302 00:15:50,375 --> 00:15:52,414 Speaker 1: that I'm paying is not going to get me what 303 00:15:52,414 --> 00:15:54,414 Speaker 1: I'm going to get from my investments. So which brings 304 00:15:54,414 --> 00:15:57,015 Speaker 1: us to the third point, which is try and invest 305 00:15:57,015 --> 00:15:59,765 Speaker 1: as much as you can, go and learn, speak to people, 306 00:16:00,215 --> 00:16:01,854 Speaker 1: make sure that the money grows for you. 307 00:16:02,099 --> 00:16:03,950 Speaker 1: But I think there will be a group of people 308 00:16:03,950 --> 00:16:06,299 Speaker 1: who will also say, but you know, Lily, I worked 309 00:16:06,299 --> 00:16:08,789 Speaker 1: so hard all my life, a bit like you as well. 310 00:16:09,299 --> 00:16:12,460 Speaker 1: I want to pamper myself or I'm in my early twenties. 311 00:16:12,909 --> 00:16:15,150 Speaker 1: My runway is still very long. I want to just 312 00:16:15,150 --> 00:16:16,909 Speaker 1: go and splurge and I don't know, go and see 313 00:16:16,909 --> 00:16:19,190 Speaker 1: the Northern Lights or go on that. 314 00:16:19,289 --> 00:16:22,909 Speaker 1: Very nice train in Switzerland or whatever. I mean, should 315 00:16:22,909 --> 00:16:28,179 Speaker 1: we be telling these people to delay their gratification? If 316 00:16:28,179 --> 00:16:31,869 Speaker 1: I were in their shoes, I will. The reason is 317 00:16:31,869 --> 00:16:35,599 Speaker 1: really because you don't want to come to a crossroad 318 00:16:35,989 --> 00:16:39,190 Speaker 1: where you took all the money and spend it all 319 00:16:39,190 --> 00:16:40,039 Speaker 1: very quickly. 320 00:16:40,580 --> 00:16:43,900 Speaker 1: And then you realize that, oh, I'm stuck. That's when 321 00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:47,849 Speaker 1: you start panicking. So once you have fear, you start panicking, 322 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: you become desperate and you make wrong decisions. Exactly. When 323 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: you become desperate, you will make the wrong decision to 324 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: your point. So that's the whole problem and we don't 325 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,070 Speaker 1: want to get there because once you react out of fear, 326 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,619 Speaker 1: it may not necessarily be putting yourself in a good place. 327 00:17:03,679 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: You want to have that safety. 328 00:17:05,381 --> 00:17:08,302 Speaker 1: so that you can take your time to really do 329 00:17:08,302 --> 00:17:11,581 Speaker 1: your inner works as well and network to get to 330 00:17:11,582 --> 00:17:14,932 Speaker 1: know more people, speak with more people to see what 331 00:17:14,932 --> 00:17:18,621 Speaker 1: is the right next game plan for you. Thank you 332 00:17:18,621 --> 00:17:20,942 Speaker 1: so much for coming on and sharing with us this. 333 00:17:21,021 --> 00:17:23,421 Speaker 1: I mean, if anything, I feel that if I ever 334 00:17:23,421 --> 00:17:25,942 Speaker 1: am in that position, I would love to speak with 335 00:17:25,942 --> 00:17:27,972 Speaker 1: you again and go, what should I do, you know, 336 00:17:27,982 --> 00:17:29,342 Speaker 1: with this money? Obvious. 337 00:17:29,605 --> 00:17:32,526 Speaker 1: we try and give our listeners a bit more broad 338 00:17:32,526 --> 00:17:35,004 Speaker 1: brushstrokes of what they can do with their money, but 339 00:17:35,005 --> 00:17:38,125 Speaker 1: everyone's situation is very unique and like you say, sit down, 340 00:17:38,186 --> 00:17:40,525 Speaker 1: ask yourself, where are you at this stage of your life? 341 00:17:40,686 --> 00:17:43,916 Speaker 1: What are your needs and where can you better deploy 342 00:17:43,916 --> 00:17:48,205 Speaker 1: the money first before you start considering, OK, what else 343 00:17:48,205 --> 00:17:51,446 Speaker 1: can I do? So thank you for giving us so 344 00:17:51,446 --> 00:17:53,806 Speaker 1: many helpful tips. Thank you. Thank you for having me. 345 00:17:58,050 --> 00:18:01,179 Speaker 1: Hi, welcome back to our Ask Me Anything segment where 346 00:18:01,180 --> 00:18:03,530 Speaker 1: we take on a question that you have sent us. 347 00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:07,060 Speaker 1: Our listener who I'll call Lucy sent us this one. 348 00:18:07,589 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: Lucy is in a small team of about 8 people. 349 00:18:10,729 --> 00:18:14,209 Speaker 1: Everyone is working in a high pressured environment with long 350 00:18:14,209 --> 00:18:17,650 Speaker 1: working hours. It's a specialist job and they have been 351 00:18:17,650 --> 00:18:20,900 Speaker 1: asking for more manpower because they're afraid to make mistakes. 352 00:18:21,199 --> 00:18:25,198 Speaker 1: Several mistakes have already been made because people are overworked. 353 00:18:25,410 --> 00:18:27,810 Speaker 1: As a result, the team has been subjected to a 354 00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:31,689 Speaker 1: few internal audits and they're just told to do better. 355 00:18:32,199 --> 00:18:35,500 Speaker 1: Now when they highlighted that they need help, management shuts 356 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: them down according to Lucy, and calls a few of 357 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 1: them troublemakers. Lucy is asking if middle management is not 358 00:18:42,719 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: listening to them and there are problems caused by a 359 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: manpower shortage. 360 00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: How can they escalate this and to whom? 361 00:18:50,170 --> 00:18:52,889 Speaker 2: I think the situation here is that they have escalated it, 362 00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 2: but the middle management is not listening. So when I 363 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,109 Speaker 2: read this question, right, I just thought to myself like, wow, 364 00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:00,660 Speaker 2: I feel for Lucy and the team because it sounds 365 00:19:00,660 --> 00:19:02,198 Speaker 2: like they are really trying their best. 366 00:19:02,314 --> 00:19:04,264 Speaker 2: But they're not getting the support from the management. Yeah, 367 00:19:04,464 --> 00:19:07,264 Speaker 1: then do I whistle blow? Do I go higher up? 368 00:19:07,505 --> 00:19:10,025 Speaker 1: Because I think a lot of people do wonder whether 369 00:19:10,025 --> 00:19:12,665 Speaker 1: the higher ups know that there is an issue and 370 00:19:12,665 --> 00:19:15,073 Speaker 1: they're also trying to cover up, then it's going to 371 00:19:15,074 --> 00:19:15,854 Speaker 1: be even worse. 372 00:19:16,385 --> 00:19:17,474 Speaker 2: So I think at this point, 373 00:19:17,969 --> 00:19:21,099 Speaker 2: It really depends on how much faith Lucy has in 374 00:19:21,099 --> 00:19:23,739 Speaker 2: her management. The highest one, because there are sometimes management 375 00:19:23,739 --> 00:19:26,659 Speaker 2: they know, but they don't want to respond or they're 376 00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:29,579 Speaker 2: not responding appropriately. So the issue is not with not knowing, 377 00:19:29,660 --> 00:19:31,530 Speaker 2: but the issue is that management is not stepping up 378 00:19:31,530 --> 00:19:33,469 Speaker 2: to do what needs to be done. So if I'm Lucy, right? 379 00:19:33,594 --> 00:19:37,104 Speaker 2: I would say I would look at the management's responses. 380 00:19:37,224 --> 00:19:39,625 Speaker 2: Is it that the leaders that are there, are they 381 00:19:39,625 --> 00:19:41,625 Speaker 2: close to the ground? You know, if they're close to 382 00:19:41,625 --> 00:19:44,625 Speaker 2: the ground and if they are really caring about the 383 00:19:44,625 --> 00:19:46,584 Speaker 2: operations and the work that they do, right, then maybe 384 00:19:46,584 --> 00:19:48,224 Speaker 2: there's a chance that I can look for the right 385 00:19:48,224 --> 00:19:50,354 Speaker 2: leader to speak to. You also know that there are 386 00:19:50,354 --> 00:19:53,505 Speaker 2: leaders who are just on the ground for tokenism, just 387 00:19:53,505 --> 00:19:56,104 Speaker 2: to show face. They're not really caring about the workers. 388 00:19:56,185 --> 00:19:58,704 Speaker 2: So I think she needs to see other such people, 389 00:19:58,785 --> 00:20:00,375 Speaker 2: such managers in the office. 390 00:20:00,770 --> 00:20:03,780 Speaker 2: I think also in many companies they have got employee sentiment, 391 00:20:03,959 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: engagement surveys. Has there been certain things like they've done 392 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 2: before and 393 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: feedback loops as well. Yes, there been things that have 394 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:11,589 Speaker 1: been mentioned a few times. 395 00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:15,739 Speaker 2: So usually like from my experiences, people do give feedback, 396 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,290 Speaker 2: but they get very disappointed and discouraged when the feedback 397 00:20:18,290 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 2: is not acted on. 398 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: And year after year, the same thing happens. I'm guessing 399 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,510 Speaker 2: here that Lucy's situation is not the first time. I 400 00:20:24,510 --> 00:20:26,709 Speaker 2: believe that this has been repeated for a particular amount 401 00:20:26,709 --> 00:20:30,300 Speaker 2: of time already and maybe it's getting like too much talk, 402 00:20:30,430 --> 00:20:32,979 Speaker 2: no action, and nobody seems to be bothered, and yet 403 00:20:32,979 --> 00:20:35,020 Speaker 2: they are the ones who have to face the consequences. 404 00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:37,949 Speaker 1: OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I hear 405 00:20:37,949 --> 00:20:40,619 Speaker 1: that Lucy saying that they were subjected to a few 406 00:20:40,619 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: internal audits. 407 00:20:42,170 --> 00:20:44,829 Speaker 1: And these internal audits have shown that they could be 408 00:20:44,829 --> 00:20:47,750 Speaker 1: doing better. So from the management's point of view, there 409 00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:50,670 Speaker 1: is no problem in terms of a manpower shortage. So 410 00:20:50,670 --> 00:20:53,030 Speaker 1: what exactly is wrong in this 411 00:20:53,030 --> 00:20:53,430 Speaker 1: situation? 412 00:20:53,550 --> 00:20:56,429 Speaker 2: So when internal audits flag out things, right, then it's 413 00:20:56,430 --> 00:21:00,069 Speaker 2: supposed to send management into investigation and mitigation mode. They 414 00:21:00,069 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 2: start to look out for what's the issue? What's the 415 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,669 Speaker 2: root cause? Is it manpower, is it? 416 00:21:02,805 --> 00:21:05,593 Speaker 2: Sources, is it a policy or process issue. And they 417 00:21:05,594 --> 00:21:05,755 Speaker 2: found 418 00:21:05,755 --> 00:21:07,474 Speaker 1: that there's nothing. It's just that the team has to 419 00:21:07,474 --> 00:21:08,755 Speaker 1: just do better, that's what they say. 420 00:21:08,875 --> 00:21:10,765 Speaker 2: So I'm just wondering why is there that the ground 421 00:21:10,765 --> 00:21:13,875 Speaker 2: feedback that it's not enough manpower and the lack of 422 00:21:13,875 --> 00:21:16,635 Speaker 2: manpower is causing all these mistakes to be made. So 423 00:21:16,635 --> 00:21:18,353 Speaker 2: somewhere along the line we can see that between the 424 00:21:18,354 --> 00:21:21,035 Speaker 2: management and the ground staff right there is this there's 425 00:21:21,035 --> 00:21:23,415 Speaker 2: a disconnect disconnect, there's a mistrust and 426 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,729 Speaker 2: If this carries on, right, I think it's just going 427 00:21:25,729 --> 00:21:28,770 Speaker 2: to make work very unbearable. Yeah. So at this point 428 00:21:28,770 --> 00:21:30,889 Speaker 2: of time for Lucy's case, I think it's either you 429 00:21:30,890 --> 00:21:33,209 Speaker 2: stand your ground and you try to hope for the best, 430 00:21:33,290 --> 00:21:35,089 Speaker 2: look at the leaders that you have and try to 431 00:21:35,089 --> 00:21:37,369 Speaker 2: see whether you get to the right person or wait 432 00:21:37,369 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 2: for the right opportunity for things to change. That's one. 433 00:21:40,569 --> 00:21:42,770 Speaker 2: The other one is, of course, you leave, you find 434 00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:45,569 Speaker 2: another place where you can contribute meaningfully because I think 435 00:21:45,569 --> 00:21:48,010 Speaker 2: she loves her work. Yeah, so find a place where 436 00:21:48,010 --> 00:21:50,969 Speaker 2: you can perform, you can do your role without all 437 00:21:50,969 --> 00:21:53,130 Speaker 2: these situations and environmental factors. 438 00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:55,109 Speaker 2: Of course, there's also a third thing, right? Some people 439 00:21:55,109 --> 00:21:57,390 Speaker 2: would say, you should be the change. You should stay 440 00:21:57,390 --> 00:21:59,910 Speaker 2: on and you know the issues well, raise your hand 441 00:21:59,910 --> 00:22:04,179 Speaker 2: volunteer to try to solve it, but that's a long shot. Whistleblowing, 442 00:22:04,670 --> 00:22:06,949 Speaker 2: whistle blowing, if the policy is there and if the 443 00:22:06,949 --> 00:22:10,229 Speaker 2: management is indeed serious about it. My own gut feel 444 00:22:10,229 --> 00:22:13,030 Speaker 2: from this is that they know, but they're not doing 445 00:22:13,030 --> 00:22:15,729 Speaker 2: anything about it and they're just pushing the blame down 446 00:22:15,729 --> 00:22:17,869 Speaker 2: and letting the people on the ground shoulder it. So 447 00:22:17,869 --> 00:22:20,189 Speaker 2: if that's the kind of response from the management then. 448 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: No amount of blowing our feedback will help. 449 00:22:23,439 --> 00:22:27,198 Speaker 1: OK. Well, Lucy, I hope that your situation turns for 450 00:22:27,199 --> 00:22:29,609 Speaker 1: the better and I hope our conversation perhaps will even 451 00:22:29,609 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: give you the right tools to advocate for yourself or 452 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: your team. If like Lucy, you have a work related question, 453 00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:38,819 Speaker 1: do send it to us. We are at CNA podcasts 454 00:22:38,819 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 1: at Medcorp.com.sg. We are also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Meliten 455 00:22:44,719 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: and YouTube where a video version of this is at. 456 00:22:48,150 --> 00:22:50,719 Speaker 1: The team behind the Work It podcast is Christina Robert, 457 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,438 Speaker 1: Joanne Chan, Juanini Johari and Sai Ye Win. Sound mixing 458 00:22:54,439 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: is by Carrie Lim, video by Hanida Amin. I'm Gerald 459 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: and I'm Tiffany. Have a smooth work week ahead.