1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:00,930 Speaker 1: Hi, Tazo. Hey to 2 00:00:00,980 --> 00:00:03,410 Speaker 1: Zura and I'm Jermaine and welcome back to another episode 3 00:00:03,420 --> 00:00:04,789 Speaker 1: of Clarity, Hush 4 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,579 Speaker 1: Man. You guys loved this previous episode so much about 5 00:00:09,590 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: unrequited love and bread crumbing. Y'all like ate it like 6 00:00:12,890 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: bread crumbs that we had to bring her back on 7 00:00:15,890 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: the show. Please. Welcome. Yet again. It's no, Adam. 8 00:00:20,260 --> 00:00:21,059 Speaker 1: Thank you so 9 00:00:21,069 --> 00:00:23,180 Speaker 2: much. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. 10 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,889 Speaker 1: Oh my God, today's topic. I can't believe we've never 11 00:00:25,899 --> 00:00:28,819 Speaker 1: spoken about it. I am sweating. I am the president 12 00:00:28,829 --> 00:00:30,989 Speaker 1: of today's topic. So I'm really looking forward to. But 13 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,180 Speaker 1: what have you been up to since we last saw you? Wow. 14 00:00:33,189 --> 00:00:33,259 Speaker 2: I 15 00:00:33,270 --> 00:00:39,740 Speaker 2: think I've just been busy with like client work, organizing workshops, events. 16 00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:41,439 Speaker 2: It's something that I'm very passionate about. 17 00:00:41,810 --> 00:00:44,139 Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm going strong, you know, in the area 18 00:00:44,150 --> 00:00:47,590 Speaker 2: of like trauma recovery work, people who are heartbroken, people 19 00:00:47,598 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: who feel abandoned. I'm like, that's where I come in. 20 00:00:50,009 --> 00:00:51,598 Speaker 2: I help you out in your journey. 21 00:00:52,470 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: I 22 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 1: love that. Yeah. Make sure you follow her at the 23 00:00:54,970 --> 00:01:02,150 Speaker 1: good life underscore therapy. Now, today's topic, it is about jealousy. OK. 24 00:01:02,159 --> 00:01:02,569 Speaker 1: Would you 25 00:01:02,819 --> 00:01:05,580 Speaker 1: say that you girls are jealous when it comes to 26 00:01:05,589 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: being in a relationship. Are you jealous? Girls? I feel 27 00:01:08,569 --> 00:01:11,529 Speaker 1: like we need a skill for this 1 to 1010 28 00:01:11,540 --> 00:01:15,330 Speaker 1: being the most jealous. I think. I'm like, at a five. Like, 29 00:01:15,339 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 1: I am confident in myself. I wouldn't call myself like 30 00:01:18,209 --> 00:01:21,569 Speaker 1: an over jealous partner but sometimes certain things, you know, 31 00:01:21,580 --> 00:01:23,980 Speaker 1: still be jealous. I just for the young, you know, 32 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:28,330 Speaker 1: ok, we'll get into that. Like, what makes hazel, you know, like, 33 00:01:28,339 --> 00:01:29,789 Speaker 1: triggered when it comes to jealousy. What 34 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: about you? No, I guess so. 35 00:01:30,970 --> 00:01:33,309 Speaker 2: Like, you know, in my past relationships I've had had 36 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,250 Speaker 2: experiences where I did feel jealousy but I think at 37 00:01:36,260 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 2: that point in time I didn't know it was like 38 00:01:38,050 --> 00:01:42,029 Speaker 2: jealousy but I just felt like it just felt off when, 39 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: you know, something happened. 40 00:01:43,449 --> 00:01:46,050 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think the more I, I deep dive 41 00:01:46,059 --> 00:01:48,470 Speaker 2: into this work, you know, being a therapist and just 42 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,949 Speaker 2: discover a bit more. I'm like, oh, that was me 43 00:01:50,959 --> 00:01:52,580 Speaker 2: being jealous. I didn't know that. 44 00:01:52,599 --> 00:01:54,489 Speaker 1: What about you? Now? Then on a scale of 1 45 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:54,949 Speaker 1: to 10 46 00:01:54,959 --> 00:01:55,220 Speaker 2: I 47 00:01:55,230 --> 00:01:57,589 Speaker 2: think, because I've not been in a relationship in a 48 00:01:57,599 --> 00:02:01,139 Speaker 2: while as well. So I would not know in the 49 00:02:01,150 --> 00:02:04,019 Speaker 2: context of, like, romantic relationships. But if you want to 50 00:02:04,029 --> 00:02:04,790 Speaker 2: talk about, like, 51 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,870 Speaker 2: I think I'm like a two or three, I'm sure. 52 00:02:08,500 --> 00:02:12,779 Speaker 1: Yeah. Ok. Yes. I used to think I was like 53 00:02:12,788 --> 00:02:16,190 Speaker 1: a minus two or like a zero. Yeah. Recently I 54 00:02:16,199 --> 00:02:19,070 Speaker 1: think I've discovered that I might be like a two 55 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: or three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I'm a bit. So. Yeah. Yeah. 56 00:02:23,929 --> 00:02:26,429 Speaker 1: I do think that there's nothing to be jealous about 57 00:02:27,699 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: when, when the emotions are not as strong. I think 58 00:02:30,169 --> 00:02:34,509 Speaker 1: emotions really exacerbate the feeling of jealousy. So, I think 59 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,990 Speaker 1: for me I would put myself as a 10. Let's just, 60 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: let's just go straight there for the honesty. Yeah. Yeah. 61 00:02:39,970 --> 00:02:42,269 Speaker 1: Let's just go straight there. Right. I'm working on it though. 62 00:02:42,279 --> 00:02:44,380 Speaker 1: I'm working on it maybe now some days I'm an 63 00:02:44,389 --> 00:02:44,929 Speaker 1: eight year old, 64 00:02:47,404 --> 00:02:50,934 Speaker 1: but today we're specifically talking about not just jealousy in 65 00:02:50,945 --> 00:02:53,585 Speaker 1: a relationship, not just like, oh, you know, your boyfriend, 66 00:02:53,595 --> 00:02:55,835 Speaker 1: like the girl's photo on Instagram, stupid things like that. 67 00:02:55,845 --> 00:03:00,845 Speaker 1: But we're talking about retroactive jealousy. What does that mean? No, 68 00:03:00,854 --> 00:03:00,925 Speaker 2: I 69 00:03:00,934 --> 00:03:02,875 Speaker 2: think retroactive jealousy, it 70 00:03:03,130 --> 00:03:06,850 Speaker 2: is something is very fascinating because it's a specific type 71 00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:10,190 Speaker 2: of jealousy that deals with you focusing on your partner's 72 00:03:10,199 --> 00:03:14,830 Speaker 2: past specifically, they are, you know, past romantic relationships, right? 73 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,850 Speaker 2: So when we're talking about general jealousy, it's got to 74 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:21,539 Speaker 2: do with like prison related circumstances. So for example, you're 75 00:03:21,550 --> 00:03:23,899 Speaker 2: at a party with a boyfriend and a girl comes along, 76 00:03:23,910 --> 00:03:26,139 Speaker 2: she starts flirting with their boyfriend. So you start to 77 00:03:26,149 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: feel 78 00:03:26,449 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: like 79 00:03:28,850 --> 00:03:29,899 Speaker 1: I just wish 80 00:03:31,889 --> 00:03:32,210 Speaker 1: right? And 81 00:03:32,910 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: jealous that's present jealousy, right? So you start feeling something 82 00:03:36,330 --> 00:03:39,860 Speaker 2: on the inside unease and yeah, you feel jealous. So 83 00:03:39,869 --> 00:03:44,759 Speaker 2: that's you responding to current behaviors, current actions. But retroactive 84 00:03:44,770 --> 00:03:47,279 Speaker 2: jealousy is a complete opposite of that. It's you feeling 85 00:03:47,289 --> 00:03:49,789 Speaker 2: that sense of jealousy, but it is in response to 86 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,750 Speaker 2: something that is in the past, it is not happening 87 00:03:52,759 --> 00:03:55,020 Speaker 2: in the here and now it's not based on current, 88 00:03:55,619 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: current behavior. And it's very interesting because this often puts 89 00:03:59,529 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: a lot of people in this state of confusion of 90 00:04:01,809 --> 00:04:04,259 Speaker 2: like what is going on. And you know, if I 91 00:04:04,270 --> 00:04:06,990 Speaker 2: could give an example, an analogy, right? It's like you 92 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,649 Speaker 2: stumbling upon your partner's old photo album, right? And in 93 00:04:11,660 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: this photo album, it shows his history. So it's way 94 00:04:14,610 --> 00:04:19,238 Speaker 2: before he met you, it shows snapshots of like memories, moments, 95 00:04:19,250 --> 00:04:19,660 Speaker 2: experience 96 00:04:19,988 --> 00:04:22,909 Speaker 2: of the people he's been with in his past life 97 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,410 Speaker 2: before he met you, right? So you take a look 98 00:04:25,420 --> 00:04:27,890 Speaker 2: at this photo album and instead of looking at those 99 00:04:27,899 --> 00:04:31,179 Speaker 2: snapshots as, oh, you know, these are past chapters in 100 00:04:31,190 --> 00:04:33,670 Speaker 2: his life, he's been through that and it has shaped 101 00:04:33,678 --> 00:04:35,869 Speaker 2: who he is today instead of looking at it that 102 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,109 Speaker 2: way you go zoom in to specific chapters and it's 103 00:04:40,119 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: specific of my life. Am I talking about 104 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,049 Speaker 2: TV, of my life? But yeah, you zoom into specific 105 00:04:48,059 --> 00:04:51,750 Speaker 2: romantic chapters, you know that he has been involved in 106 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,459 Speaker 2: and your mind goes into this very interesting spiral, right? 107 00:04:55,470 --> 00:04:58,750 Speaker 2: You look at those chapters and you start wondering like 108 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,029 Speaker 2: is he really over her? Does he still think about her? 109 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,309 Speaker 2: You know what's going on there? And again, it is 110 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,420 Speaker 2: very exhausting, dealing with these sort of feelings, especially if 111 00:05:08,428 --> 00:05:08,690 Speaker 2: you don't know 112 00:05:08,738 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: what's going on in terms of. 113 00:05:09,769 --> 00:05:12,420 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think like this retroactive jealousy is a 114 00:05:12,428 --> 00:05:15,190 Speaker 1: beast of its own because it's not something that's happening 115 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,119 Speaker 1: right now. So you're like, is it real, like, why 116 00:05:18,130 --> 00:05:20,618 Speaker 1: am I feeling these things if it's not happening right now? 117 00:05:20,630 --> 00:05:23,078 Speaker 1: This is in the past and everyone will say, but 118 00:05:23,089 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: it's in the past. What do you bring up the past? 119 00:05:25,290 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: And that's the challenge of it. And I think it's 120 00:05:26,890 --> 00:05:29,109 Speaker 1: very confusing because you don't really know what's going on. 121 00:05:29,119 --> 00:05:31,769 Speaker 1: You don't know why you feel that way. I'm just 122 00:05:31,779 --> 00:05:33,149 Speaker 1: trying to speak for you. Thank you. 123 00:05:34,130 --> 00:05:37,260 Speaker 1: I feel hurt and I think you don't really know 124 00:05:37,269 --> 00:05:39,390 Speaker 1: what to do with it either because if you voice 125 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:42,570 Speaker 1: it or you throw a tantrum, it's unfair. Correct. Correct. 126 00:05:42,790 --> 00:05:45,820 Speaker 1: And you understand that you also have a past but 127 00:05:45,829 --> 00:05:48,709 Speaker 1: like you're being unfair but you can't help it. Correct? Ok. 128 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,730 Speaker 1: Interesting because I've never come across this term, retroactive jealousy 129 00:05:52,738 --> 00:05:54,450 Speaker 1: and just don't want to read it myself. Five, I 130 00:05:54,459 --> 00:05:59,089 Speaker 1: would think the bulk of it is this retroactive, retroactive jealousy. 131 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:01,890 Speaker 1: So let's say I'm in a relationship. I would like to, 132 00:06:01,899 --> 00:06:02,700 Speaker 1: it's a bad habit. 133 00:06:02,755 --> 00:06:06,175 Speaker 1: I'll ask my partner, what are your past relationships? Like 134 00:06:06,656 --> 00:06:08,656 Speaker 1: then after he shares with me because he views it 135 00:06:08,665 --> 00:06:11,455 Speaker 1: as an open, honest communication. Now, I get a bit upset. 136 00:06:11,585 --> 00:06:15,614 Speaker 1: That's true. So, so when I first got together with 137 00:06:15,626 --> 00:06:18,075 Speaker 1: my partner, we were like, ok, you know, we've both 138 00:06:18,085 --> 00:06:21,936 Speaker 1: had past, let's be 1000% honest with each other about 139 00:06:21,946 --> 00:06:25,536 Speaker 1: every single detail of my past. That idea. And then 140 00:06:25,545 --> 00:06:27,955 Speaker 1: now we're seeing a therapist for good reason and the 141 00:06:27,966 --> 00:06:30,115 Speaker 1: therapist is like, that's such a shitty idea. Why would 142 00:06:30,126 --> 00:06:30,876 Speaker 1: you guys do that? 143 00:06:31,380 --> 00:06:33,321 Speaker 1: Why would you all do that? We're like, it's too late. 144 00:06:33,332 --> 00:06:35,911 Speaker 1: We already know everything. Yeah, it's too late. And I 145 00:06:35,921 --> 00:06:41,122 Speaker 1: think retroactive jealousy focuses on this very unhealthy preoccupation with 146 00:06:41,130 --> 00:06:44,041 Speaker 1: your partner's past, who they dated, who they slept with, 147 00:06:44,052 --> 00:06:45,700 Speaker 1: who they hung out with, who they texted, you know, 148 00:06:45,712 --> 00:06:48,832 Speaker 1: whatever it is. I remember I was at his mom's 149 00:06:48,842 --> 00:06:52,171 Speaker 1: home and she loves keeping photos everywhere, photo frames. And 150 00:06:52,182 --> 00:06:54,391 Speaker 1: I'm like, looking, looking and I feel like I knew 151 00:06:54,402 --> 00:06:56,611 Speaker 1: what I was looking for, but I wasn't, I was 152 00:06:56,622 --> 00:06:58,872 Speaker 1: just like, oh, so nice. Oh, your brother's wedding? I 153 00:06:58,880 --> 00:06:59,921 Speaker 1: was like, oh, who's this girl? 154 00:07:00,670 --> 00:07:02,290 Speaker 1: I was like, how is this girl? He's like, oh, 155 00:07:02,299 --> 00:07:04,820 Speaker 1: that's my ex. I was like, oh, a photo of 156 00:07:04,829 --> 00:07:06,369 Speaker 1: your ex in your mom's home? Ok. 157 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,380 Speaker 1: And I walk away and I heard my own feelings 158 00:07:09,390 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: for what, but what do you do about the photo? 159 00:07:11,489 --> 00:07:13,980 Speaker 1: I it's in his mom's home. Of course, it's just 160 00:07:14,089 --> 00:07:16,380 Speaker 1: that photo frame is to celebrate his brother's wedding. That's 161 00:07:16,390 --> 00:07:18,690 Speaker 1: the point of the photo frame. But yes, back to 162 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:22,489 Speaker 1: retroactive jealousy where does it come from? Does it come 163 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:25,250 Speaker 1: from a feeling of like I'm not enough because that's 164 00:07:25,260 --> 00:07:26,690 Speaker 1: what people say, oh, your self worth 165 00:07:26,700 --> 00:07:27,420 Speaker 1: is not enough. 166 00:07:27,429 --> 00:07:29,470 Speaker 2: And that's one of them, right? When we're talking about 167 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,619 Speaker 2: retroactive jealousy, it often stems from a place of unfinished, 168 00:07:34,273 --> 00:07:38,153 Speaker 2: unprocessed emotions, you know, in the past and now it's 169 00:07:38,164 --> 00:07:40,813 Speaker 2: being replayed in the present moment in an attempt to 170 00:07:40,824 --> 00:07:43,894 Speaker 2: reconcile something that has got to do with, you know, old, hurt, 171 00:07:43,903 --> 00:07:47,023 Speaker 2: old wounds. And I feel that it is important for 172 00:07:47,033 --> 00:07:49,074 Speaker 2: us to get to the root cause and the origin 173 00:07:49,084 --> 00:07:52,084 Speaker 2: of what is causing retroactive jealousy to be there. And 174 00:07:52,093 --> 00:07:54,044 Speaker 2: I feel that you can get curious about two key 175 00:07:54,053 --> 00:07:57,813 Speaker 2: stages here. One is the childhood experience, right? And the 176 00:07:57,824 --> 00:08:00,773 Speaker 2: other one is the later developmental years. So for the 177 00:08:00,868 --> 00:08:03,727 Speaker 2: first part, the childhood experience get curious about, you know, 178 00:08:03,738 --> 00:08:06,007 Speaker 2: what do you go through as a child? What was 179 00:08:06,018 --> 00:08:09,157 Speaker 2: your family dynamics? Like? Were there certain things that you 180 00:08:09,167 --> 00:08:11,187 Speaker 2: were struggling with as a child that you didn't really 181 00:08:11,197 --> 00:08:14,727 Speaker 2: have the opportunity to talk about it? Maybe as a child, 182 00:08:14,738 --> 00:08:17,388 Speaker 2: you grew up in an environment where your parents were 183 00:08:17,398 --> 00:08:20,967 Speaker 2: there physically but emotionally they were checked out, maybe they 184 00:08:20,977 --> 00:08:24,787 Speaker 2: were constantly busy with work, maybe they themselves were struggling 185 00:08:24,798 --> 00:08:27,808 Speaker 2: emotionally mentally. And because of that they couldn't 186 00:08:27,981 --> 00:08:30,652 Speaker 2: have the capacity to be with you in the way 187 00:08:30,661 --> 00:08:31,441 Speaker 2: that you want them to. 188 00:08:31,451 --> 00:08:31,902 Speaker 1: How does 189 00:08:31,911 --> 00:08:35,072 Speaker 1: that manifest? Like how does that link to, you know, 190 00:08:35,131 --> 00:08:35,891 Speaker 1: retroactive 191 00:08:35,901 --> 00:08:36,442 Speaker 1: jealousy? 192 00:08:36,452 --> 00:08:38,942 Speaker 2: Because what you've been exposed to as a child, it 193 00:08:38,952 --> 00:08:42,512 Speaker 2: becomes your very programming, it becomes your belief system on 194 00:08:42,521 --> 00:08:44,481 Speaker 2: what you know about the world, about what you know 195 00:08:44,492 --> 00:08:47,331 Speaker 2: about love, what you know about relationships, what you know 196 00:08:47,341 --> 00:08:50,622 Speaker 2: about how to cope with difficult emotions, let's say you 197 00:08:50,631 --> 00:08:54,841 Speaker 2: were in an environment where your parents were constantly not there, right? There. 198 00:08:54,851 --> 00:08:54,992 Speaker 2: Is there 199 00:08:55,096 --> 00:08:58,276 Speaker 2: elements of emotional neglect. So you learned on how to 200 00:08:58,285 --> 00:09:00,366 Speaker 2: have to deal with your emotions on your own, right? 201 00:09:00,445 --> 00:09:03,476 Speaker 2: Because you feel like, you know, if I cannot depend 202 00:09:03,486 --> 00:09:05,435 Speaker 2: on my parents to be there for me and I'm 203 00:09:05,445 --> 00:09:07,856 Speaker 2: struggling on my own, something needs to be done. So 204 00:09:07,866 --> 00:09:10,825 Speaker 2: in a way, you've learned these adaptation sort of strategies 205 00:09:10,835 --> 00:09:13,806 Speaker 2: in order to cope with the inner conflicts and in 206 00:09:13,815 --> 00:09:15,776 Speaker 2: the pain that you're dealing. Like let's say if you 207 00:09:15,785 --> 00:09:18,106 Speaker 2: grew up in an environment where there's a lot of chaos, 208 00:09:18,116 --> 00:09:21,226 Speaker 2: a lot of fighting going on between your parents, maybe 209 00:09:21,236 --> 00:09:22,106 Speaker 2: you witness a separate 210 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,150 Speaker 2: of your your parents divorce. So what happens is that 211 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:28,669 Speaker 2: you learn as a kid that it is not safe 212 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,090 Speaker 2: to be there in the environment, it's not safe to 213 00:09:31,099 --> 00:09:33,969 Speaker 2: express your own emotions and your needs because other people's 214 00:09:33,979 --> 00:09:36,718 Speaker 2: needs mattered more. You need to make sure that you 215 00:09:36,729 --> 00:09:39,829 Speaker 2: need to know exactly what other people needed in order 216 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,250 Speaker 2: for them to give you peace, right? So you learn 217 00:09:42,260 --> 00:09:45,510 Speaker 2: to take on the role of the peacemaker, the mediator, 218 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,650 Speaker 2: the emotional caretaker, you know, the adult in the family 219 00:09:48,659 --> 00:09:49,229 Speaker 2: and these 220 00:09:49,323 --> 00:09:53,783 Speaker 2: are enormous roles for any kid to carry. It basically 221 00:09:53,794 --> 00:09:57,914 Speaker 2: denies you the opportunity to experience childhood. Right? If you 222 00:09:57,924 --> 00:10:00,763 Speaker 2: had to take on these roles early on as a child, 223 00:10:00,773 --> 00:10:03,473 Speaker 2: you basically didn't have time to be a child, to 224 00:10:03,484 --> 00:10:06,343 Speaker 2: be the carefree kid, to be curious to have fun 225 00:10:06,354 --> 00:10:08,943 Speaker 2: to play because you had to do other serious stuff 226 00:10:08,953 --> 00:10:09,463 Speaker 2: and you didn't 227 00:10:09,473 --> 00:10:13,772 Speaker 1: form secure attachment. Exactly. She's talking to me. Yeah. Sorry, 228 00:10:13,883 --> 00:10:16,263 Speaker 1: sorry you OK. I'm ok. 229 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,530 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very true. I think, you know, all these 230 00:10:18,539 --> 00:10:21,820 Speaker 1: things as Children shape us into what we are now. 231 00:10:22,159 --> 00:10:25,020 Speaker 1: And I think the problem with retroactive jealousy is a 232 00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:28,010 Speaker 1: lot of people think like, oh, it's that overly attached girlfriend, 233 00:10:28,020 --> 00:10:29,940 Speaker 1: you know, it's a crazy girlfriend, right? It's the girlfriend 234 00:10:29,950 --> 00:10:32,140 Speaker 1: who is like, so jealous. But I do think it 235 00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:33,239 Speaker 1: afflicts guys as well. 236 00:10:33,250 --> 00:10:34,449 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. 237 00:10:34,460 --> 00:10:35,340 Speaker 1: Have you seen that? 238 00:10:35,349 --> 00:10:39,299 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. I feel like when we're talking about jealousy, 239 00:10:39,309 --> 00:10:43,609 Speaker 2: retroactive or otherwise it is something that is often portrayed as, 240 00:10:43,734 --> 00:10:46,223 Speaker 2: as a more female trait, right? And I feel it 241 00:10:46,234 --> 00:10:48,984 Speaker 2: touches on a very profound cultural bias. You know, we 242 00:10:48,994 --> 00:10:52,263 Speaker 2: see this in movies, TV, shows, we see this in 243 00:10:52,273 --> 00:10:55,233 Speaker 2: pop songs, social media. There are these terms that have 244 00:10:55,244 --> 00:11:00,593 Speaker 2: been tossed around, like for example, psycho ex-girlfriend, drama queen diva, 245 00:11:00,604 --> 00:11:05,114 Speaker 2: possessive stalkerish and all of these labels are associated around 246 00:11:05,244 --> 00:11:09,273 Speaker 2: women experiencing jealousy. And the problem with that is that 247 00:11:09,283 --> 00:11:10,703 Speaker 2: with these stereotypes, it 248 00:11:10,828 --> 00:11:13,887 Speaker 2: causes a lot of issues for people experiencing it because 249 00:11:13,898 --> 00:11:17,567 Speaker 2: for men, right, they have this cultural expectation where they 250 00:11:17,578 --> 00:11:20,528 Speaker 2: need to be the strong one, the secure one, the 251 00:11:20,538 --> 00:11:23,307 Speaker 2: put together the calm one. When there is this cultural 252 00:11:23,317 --> 00:11:25,727 Speaker 2: expectation for them to live up to that, when they 253 00:11:25,737 --> 00:11:28,857 Speaker 2: feel jealousy arise, it's natural for them to go. Oh, 254 00:11:28,867 --> 00:11:31,247 Speaker 2: I should not say it because I don't want to 255 00:11:31,256 --> 00:11:35,247 Speaker 2: be labeled as insecure or petty or controlling. And then 256 00:11:35,256 --> 00:11:37,806 Speaker 2: for the women because they know that is that 257 00:11:37,921 --> 00:11:41,262 Speaker 2: stigma out there to feel jealousy again because they don't 258 00:11:41,271 --> 00:11:43,591 Speaker 2: want to be judged. They don't want to be labeled, 259 00:11:43,771 --> 00:11:46,661 Speaker 2: they keep it in, you know, when jealousy does arise. 260 00:11:46,671 --> 00:11:47,081 Speaker 1: On 261 00:11:47,091 --> 00:11:49,752 Speaker 1: the contrary, I feel like women are more, we tend 262 00:11:49,761 --> 00:11:52,261 Speaker 1: to express jealousy more because we know in a certain 263 00:11:52,271 --> 00:11:53,021 Speaker 1: way we can, 264 00:11:53,171 --> 00:11:54,021 Speaker 2: it's ok. 265 00:11:54,502 --> 00:11:54,631 Speaker 1: It's 266 00:11:54,932 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: ok. Yes. And I feel like it would be ok 267 00:11:58,291 --> 00:12:00,961 Speaker 1: for women to approach their partners in the relationship to 268 00:12:00,971 --> 00:12:03,771 Speaker 1: speak about this. But what are some signs of retroactive 269 00:12:03,780 --> 00:12:04,910 Speaker 1: jealousy in the relationship? 270 00:12:05,015 --> 00:12:08,745 Speaker 2: I would say for the person who is experiencing retroactive jealousy. 271 00:12:08,755 --> 00:12:10,796 Speaker 2: One of the things that you would notice is that 272 00:12:11,035 --> 00:12:14,075 Speaker 2: you get caught in this obsessive loop, you tend to 273 00:12:14,085 --> 00:12:17,995 Speaker 2: ruminate a lot. Your thoughts go wild. Basically, you want 274 00:12:18,005 --> 00:12:19,995 Speaker 2: to go into that space of wanting to know every 275 00:12:20,005 --> 00:12:23,695 Speaker 2: single detail of what happened in your partner's romantic past. 276 00:12:23,705 --> 00:12:25,405 Speaker 2: And if you can't either, like you want to know, 277 00:12:25,416 --> 00:12:27,116 Speaker 2: but you don't want to know. Yes. It's kind of 278 00:12:27,125 --> 00:12:31,995 Speaker 2: this weird tug of war, weird dilemma that's happening. You know, cognitively, 279 00:12:32,109 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 2: like rationally if you go there, it's going to cause 280 00:12:34,770 --> 00:12:37,569 Speaker 2: a lot of hurt for yourself. But you can't help 281 00:12:37,580 --> 00:12:40,299 Speaker 2: but want to go there and to find out for yourself. 282 00:12:40,309 --> 00:12:43,900 Speaker 2: Because again, is this adaptive strategy is this self soothing 283 00:12:43,909 --> 00:12:47,299 Speaker 2: mechanism that you have developed from early on in order 284 00:12:47,309 --> 00:12:50,369 Speaker 2: to soothe that discomfort that you're feeling on the inside. 285 00:12:50,380 --> 00:12:53,150 Speaker 2: What we need to understand about retroactive jealousy is that 286 00:12:53,159 --> 00:12:55,309 Speaker 2: that is just a presenting problem, right? If I would 287 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,859 Speaker 2: have given an analogy of an iceberg, if you are 288 00:12:57,869 --> 00:12:59,089 Speaker 2: the boat here above the water 289 00:12:59,283 --> 00:13:01,533 Speaker 2: line, what you see is just above the water line 290 00:13:01,544 --> 00:13:03,744 Speaker 2: and that's at the tip of the iceberg. So that's 291 00:13:03,754 --> 00:13:06,973 Speaker 2: where retroactive jealousy lies. And what is beneath the water 292 00:13:06,984 --> 00:13:10,323 Speaker 2: line is all the stuff, the narrative, our life scripts, 293 00:13:10,333 --> 00:13:13,814 Speaker 2: our belief system, our hurts our pains, our insecurities, all 294 00:13:13,823 --> 00:13:16,353 Speaker 2: of that is below the water line. And that is 295 00:13:16,364 --> 00:13:18,023 Speaker 2: what we need to get to the root cause we 296 00:13:18,033 --> 00:13:20,983 Speaker 2: need to get there to heal those parts in order 297 00:13:20,994 --> 00:13:24,443 Speaker 2: to heal this obsessive cycle that we keep going into. So, 298 00:13:24,453 --> 00:13:26,203 Speaker 2: number one is this obsession. 299 00:13:26,479 --> 00:13:30,309 Speaker 2: Number two, because you are so obsessed about the past, 300 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,659 Speaker 2: it pulls you away from being in the present 301 00:13:32,669 --> 00:13:35,809 Speaker 1: so true. It's like sometimes it's like, you know, there's 302 00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:38,469 Speaker 1: so much good that's happening in the present. But you're like, 303 00:13:38,479 --> 00:13:40,608 Speaker 1: so focused on, oh, this happened in the past and 304 00:13:40,619 --> 00:13:44,039 Speaker 1: then you become so negative and like, resentful question for Jeremy. 305 00:13:44,049 --> 00:13:46,728 Speaker 1: If you could turn time back, would you still have 306 00:13:46,739 --> 00:13:50,489 Speaker 1: that discussion with your partner? Like understanding? Yeah. Correct. 307 00:13:50,607 --> 00:13:53,547 Speaker 1: Each other's past. Every single relationship you've been in. Would 308 00:13:53,557 --> 00:13:55,697 Speaker 1: you still want to know at this current point? I 309 00:13:55,708 --> 00:13:59,168 Speaker 1: haven't healed yet. So I would still want to know. But, 310 00:13:59,177 --> 00:14:01,348 Speaker 1: but I'm hoping to get to a point where, like, 311 00:14:01,357 --> 00:14:04,317 Speaker 1: I don't even need to know. And the interesting thing 312 00:14:04,328 --> 00:14:06,848 Speaker 1: is that we talked about how it mostly, you know, 313 00:14:06,918 --> 00:14:09,408 Speaker 1: they say like, oh, only women are jealous of their 314 00:14:09,418 --> 00:14:13,027 Speaker 1: partner's past. But so when we first got into a relationship, actually, 315 00:14:13,038 --> 00:14:14,687 Speaker 1: we were both experience 316 00:14:14,905 --> 00:14:17,814 Speaker 1: very strong levels of retroactive jealousy and so much that 317 00:14:17,825 --> 00:14:20,945 Speaker 1: it really impacted our daily lives. Like, you know, hands 318 00:14:20,976 --> 00:14:23,156 Speaker 1: were threatened to be thrown and stuff like that, which 319 00:14:23,166 --> 00:14:26,325 Speaker 1: is very unhealthy. But for him, well, he's also got 320 00:14:26,335 --> 00:14:28,296 Speaker 1: 12 years on me. Right. And he's been working on 321 00:14:28,306 --> 00:14:30,744 Speaker 1: himself a much longer time. He actually managed to, I 322 00:14:30,755 --> 00:14:34,216 Speaker 1: wouldn't say recover but cope with it a lot quicker 323 00:14:34,226 --> 00:14:36,875 Speaker 1: than I have been. I'm still stuck there. But he's 324 00:14:36,885 --> 00:14:38,755 Speaker 1: like he's dealt with it and 325 00:14:38,864 --> 00:14:40,934 Speaker 1: now he's on the other side. So I'm looking to 326 00:14:40,943 --> 00:14:42,773 Speaker 1: get there and if you're listening. You're like, I also 327 00:14:42,783 --> 00:14:45,124 Speaker 1: want to get there. We ask. No. OK. Don't worry, 328 00:14:45,133 --> 00:14:47,754 Speaker 1: that's coming. That's coming. I have a question. So you 329 00:14:47,763 --> 00:14:49,963 Speaker 1: were saying that, you know, everybody has baggage, right? And 330 00:14:49,973 --> 00:14:53,684 Speaker 1: everybody has this like whole eyes but below the surface 331 00:14:53,693 --> 00:14:56,244 Speaker 1: that can't be seen, you know, all this hurt trauma, whatever, 332 00:14:56,254 --> 00:14:58,463 Speaker 1: but it's different for each person but everybody has it. 333 00:14:58,653 --> 00:15:01,234 Speaker 1: So does that mean that it comes out in different 334 00:15:01,244 --> 00:15:02,874 Speaker 1: shapes and form? And 335 00:15:02,992 --> 00:15:04,661 Speaker 1: one of it is retroactive Jezzy. 336 00:15:05,021 --> 00:15:09,921 Speaker 2: Yes. Absolutely. Our pains, our unresolved pains, they will find 337 00:15:09,932 --> 00:15:13,591 Speaker 2: its way on how to let itself be known. So, 338 00:15:13,601 --> 00:15:16,090 Speaker 2: one of the ways it could be retroactive jealousy for 339 00:15:16,101 --> 00:15:19,281 Speaker 2: some is because they're dealing with so much suppression, it 340 00:15:19,291 --> 00:15:23,372 Speaker 2: comes in a form of depression, anxiety, mood disorders, you know, 341 00:15:23,382 --> 00:15:26,521 Speaker 2: procrastination and this list could actually go on. 342 00:15:27,289 --> 00:15:30,909 Speaker 1: So, what you're saying is that retroactive jealousy doesn't necessarily 343 00:15:30,919 --> 00:15:34,409 Speaker 1: mean that you're actually jealous of your partner's past. It 344 00:15:34,419 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: could be a whole different underlying issue that is coming 345 00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:39,070 Speaker 1: out as this. 346 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,469 Speaker 2: It is that past your partner's past romantic relationships as 347 00:15:43,479 --> 00:15:47,830 Speaker 2: triggering and revisiting old wounds inside of you, right? The 348 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: the unresolved fears, insecurities, childhood wounds and what we know 349 00:15:52,450 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 2: about unresolved wounds 350 00:15:54,302 --> 00:15:57,172 Speaker 2: is that it resides in the unconscious mind and body. 351 00:15:57,182 --> 00:16:00,973 Speaker 2: So the unconscious is this hidden storage system inside of 352 00:16:00,982 --> 00:16:05,132 Speaker 2: you that holds the emotional blueprint of past events. So 353 00:16:05,143 --> 00:16:08,963 Speaker 2: it holds all the hurts, right? The emotions, the sensations, 354 00:16:08,973 --> 00:16:14,853 Speaker 2: the memories of the times that you felt frightened, overwhelmed, abandoned, traumatized. 355 00:16:14,862 --> 00:16:17,252 Speaker 2: So it's all inside there. And the work that we 356 00:16:17,263 --> 00:16:20,692 Speaker 2: need to do is to be able to revisit safely 357 00:16:20,776 --> 00:16:23,935 Speaker 2: these parts inside of us that's stored in that dark 358 00:16:23,945 --> 00:16:26,515 Speaker 2: hidden storage and to be able to bring it up 359 00:16:26,526 --> 00:16:28,895 Speaker 2: to that conscious layer. So that when it comes up, 360 00:16:28,906 --> 00:16:31,236 Speaker 2: when we get triggered, we are aware that this is 361 00:16:31,245 --> 00:16:33,085 Speaker 2: happening right now. I feel that one of the things 362 00:16:33,096 --> 00:16:35,895 Speaker 2: that's so important for us to know to reduce this 363 00:16:35,906 --> 00:16:39,635 Speaker 2: crazy confusion and frustration we're feeling right now is whenever 364 00:16:39,645 --> 00:16:42,806 Speaker 2: it comes up, it's for us to understand this trigger, 365 00:16:42,815 --> 00:16:46,226 Speaker 2: this jealousy that we're feeling, is it coming from present 366 00:16:46,236 --> 00:16:47,416 Speaker 2: circumstances 367 00:16:47,518 --> 00:16:50,718 Speaker 2: or is it coming from something in the past? Because 368 00:16:50,729 --> 00:16:53,578 Speaker 2: when you don't know whether it's from the past or present, 369 00:16:53,588 --> 00:16:57,448 Speaker 2: present past, it becomes mushed up, it becomes so confusing 370 00:16:57,559 --> 00:16:59,749 Speaker 2: and you don't know even where to start in terms 371 00:16:59,758 --> 00:17:01,979 Speaker 2: of your healing journey. But when you're able to take 372 00:17:01,989 --> 00:17:04,828 Speaker 2: that step back to really reflect and see where is 373 00:17:04,838 --> 00:17:07,348 Speaker 2: it coming from? If you see that is majority of 374 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,498 Speaker 2: it is coming from the past, then you know, that's 375 00:17:09,509 --> 00:17:11,538 Speaker 2: the work that you need to get into when you 376 00:17:11,548 --> 00:17:13,499 Speaker 2: know that it's coming from a prison that can be 377 00:17:13,509 --> 00:17:14,178 Speaker 2: communicated 378 00:17:14,260 --> 00:17:17,041 Speaker 2: and worked out with your partner more effectively? 379 00:17:17,051 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: I 380 00:17:17,090 --> 00:17:20,980 Speaker 1: believe I've seen research that says that a sign of 381 00:17:20,990 --> 00:17:23,869 Speaker 1: retroactive jealousy when you find that you are unable to 382 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,781 Speaker 1: engage in sexual intercourse with your partner. Why does it 383 00:17:26,791 --> 00:17:27,171 Speaker 1: get that 384 00:17:27,181 --> 00:17:27,801 Speaker 2: serious? 385 00:17:28,859 --> 00:17:29,461 Speaker 1: Does it get there? 386 00:17:29,470 --> 00:17:32,781 Speaker 2: Because at the end of the day, it deals with intimacy, right? 387 00:17:32,791 --> 00:17:34,250 Speaker 2: If at the end of the day, you have so 388 00:17:34,260 --> 00:17:37,109 Speaker 2: much of this unresolved wounds on the inside, the fear 389 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: is insecurities. So what that means is that your own 390 00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:40,910 Speaker 2: relationship with your 391 00:17:41,005 --> 00:17:44,454 Speaker 2: self, it doesn't feel secure, it doesn't feel intimate, right? 392 00:17:44,515 --> 00:17:47,625 Speaker 2: And we tend to project whatever is going on inside. 393 00:17:47,714 --> 00:17:50,964 Speaker 2: So if we ourselves find it hard to be intimate 394 00:17:50,974 --> 00:17:54,063 Speaker 2: and vulnerable with ourselves, it makes sense that we are 395 00:17:54,074 --> 00:17:56,545 Speaker 2: trying to be intimate and vulnerable with our partners, it's 396 00:17:56,555 --> 00:18:00,464 Speaker 2: going to feel so hard, so unfamiliar and so awkward 397 00:18:00,474 --> 00:18:01,224 Speaker 2: and foreign. 398 00:18:01,255 --> 00:18:03,515 Speaker 1: So this is not even like, you know, I don't 399 00:18:03,525 --> 00:18:06,974 Speaker 1: trust my partner. It could even be, I don't trust myself. Exactly. 400 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,709 Speaker 1: Sounds like a very deep problem. Work out. And you know, 401 00:18:11,719 --> 00:18:15,380 Speaker 1: what makes it so much worse these days is social 402 00:18:15,390 --> 00:18:18,859 Speaker 1: media freaking social media. You know, it's such a great 403 00:18:18,869 --> 00:18:21,390 Speaker 1: thing to exist, but it's also the bane of everyone's 404 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,889 Speaker 1: existence because it almost amplifies and it feeds into that 405 00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:29,530 Speaker 1: retroactive jealousy on social media. If you want to find something, 406 00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:31,938 Speaker 1: you know what digital footprint is, right? If you want 407 00:18:31,949 --> 00:18:35,260 Speaker 1: to find something, you will find something and for someone 408 00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:36,660 Speaker 1: with retroactive jealousy, it's 409 00:18:36,765 --> 00:18:39,845 Speaker 1: like a treasure trove of, you know, forget the photo albums. 410 00:18:39,855 --> 00:18:43,025 Speaker 1: Let's look at Instagram. Oh, my goodness. How do you 411 00:18:43,036 --> 00:18:43,865 Speaker 1: deal with that? 412 00:18:43,916 --> 00:18:46,056 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's not easy when we're talking about 413 00:18:46,066 --> 00:18:48,715 Speaker 2: the internet. I mean, while it provides us with this 414 00:18:48,725 --> 00:18:51,745 Speaker 2: beautiful tool for us to connect with people all over 415 00:18:51,755 --> 00:18:54,225 Speaker 2: the world, it's so convenient. We can get so much 416 00:18:54,234 --> 00:18:57,265 Speaker 2: information just with a couple of clicks. I would say 417 00:18:57,276 --> 00:19:00,586 Speaker 2: that for someone who is struggling with retroactive jersey. Oh 418 00:19:00,595 --> 00:19:03,514 Speaker 2: my God. It's the biggest nightmare ever because what it 419 00:19:03,526 --> 00:19:04,875 Speaker 2: does is that it indulges 420 00:19:04,972 --> 00:19:08,952 Speaker 2: in this obsession. The obsession with comparing of yourself with 421 00:19:08,962 --> 00:19:12,432 Speaker 2: your partner's exes, the obsession in wanting to dig up 422 00:19:12,442 --> 00:19:15,712 Speaker 2: all the information possible in order for you to feel 423 00:19:15,722 --> 00:19:18,151 Speaker 2: this sense of security on the inside. You know, in 424 00:19:18,161 --> 00:19:23,021 Speaker 2: the past way before the internet existed, mail mail days, right? 425 00:19:23,031 --> 00:19:26,291 Speaker 2: You don't, you don't have like Instagram, social media if 426 00:19:26,302 --> 00:19:29,541 Speaker 2: you wanted to indulge in the obsession, probably like, you know, 427 00:19:29,552 --> 00:19:32,831 Speaker 2: a snail mail physical stalking were probably your own options. 428 00:19:32,901 --> 00:19:33,072 Speaker 2: And 429 00:19:33,177 --> 00:19:36,277 Speaker 2: you ask me, it's so much effort to do that. 430 00:19:36,446 --> 00:19:40,147 Speaker 2: And if your partner's ex stayed somewhere like on the 431 00:19:40,157 --> 00:19:42,927 Speaker 2: other side of the globe, you had to buy a 432 00:19:42,936 --> 00:19:45,417 Speaker 2: plane ticket to fly all the way there to check 433 00:19:45,427 --> 00:19:47,588 Speaker 2: out like what she's doing over there. So I think 434 00:19:47,598 --> 00:19:50,997 Speaker 2: that the internet had really lowered the barrier to entry 435 00:19:51,008 --> 00:19:54,516 Speaker 2: to indulge in this obsession. And I feel that yes, 436 00:19:54,527 --> 00:19:57,407 Speaker 2: the internet is beautiful. It comes with its convenience, but 437 00:19:57,417 --> 00:20:00,478 Speaker 2: it also comes with a cost because what it does, 438 00:20:00,488 --> 00:20:01,277 Speaker 2: it denies 439 00:20:01,624 --> 00:20:04,792 Speaker 2: the opportunity to sit with what is really the one 440 00:20:04,803 --> 00:20:07,223 Speaker 2: that's causing you the problem instead right now you have 441 00:20:07,234 --> 00:20:09,504 Speaker 2: all these instant gratification tools. 442 00:20:09,513 --> 00:20:12,953 Speaker 1: The ironic thing is it's not even gratifying. Most times 443 00:20:12,963 --> 00:20:14,552 Speaker 1: when you go down the rabbit hole, you come out 444 00:20:14,563 --> 00:20:15,144 Speaker 1: feeling more 445 00:20:15,154 --> 00:20:15,723 Speaker 1: shit. 446 00:20:16,154 --> 00:20:18,644 Speaker 2: But in that moment you feel that sense of reliever. 447 00:20:18,792 --> 00:20:19,333 Speaker 2: I know 448 00:20:19,343 --> 00:20:22,083 Speaker 1: like a drug, it's like a drug is right? That 449 00:20:22,563 --> 00:20:28,024 Speaker 1: you have to know you also. No, OK, you no scratching. 450 00:20:28,223 --> 00:20:29,274 Speaker 1: I'm the only one 451 00:20:31,069 --> 00:20:33,129 Speaker 1: I have a question. So when people go down this 452 00:20:33,140 --> 00:20:35,989 Speaker 1: rabbit hole, right? For example, they're stalking, they're finding every 453 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 1: information about the exes and all that are they actually 454 00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:44,139 Speaker 1: trying to compare themselves and trying to find some value 455 00:20:44,349 --> 00:20:47,939 Speaker 1: to themselves by, you know, trying to figure out their flaws. 456 00:20:47,949 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: Are they trying to, you know, just pick on that 457 00:20:49,770 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: person and just make themselves feel 458 00:20:51,689 --> 00:20:52,060 Speaker 1: better? 459 00:20:52,069 --> 00:20:55,819 Speaker 2: Absolutely. It is a tool to gain that external validation 460 00:20:55,829 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 2: to kind of reinforce the belief that ok, you know, 461 00:20:57,930 --> 00:21:00,180 Speaker 2: I am enough, I am enough as I am, right? 462 00:21:00,189 --> 00:21:00,569 Speaker 2: Because 463 00:21:00,719 --> 00:21:03,250 Speaker 2: it is coming from a wound that does not feel enough. 464 00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:05,050 Speaker 2: So that wound has learned that in order for me 465 00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:08,790 Speaker 2: to feel enough, I need this external validation in order 466 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:09,270 Speaker 2: to tell me 467 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:10,670 Speaker 1: otherwise, when 468 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,669 Speaker 1: you treat your clients who have retroactive jealousy, what does 469 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,579 Speaker 1: that look like? What are your clients struggling 470 00:21:16,589 --> 00:21:16,819 Speaker 1: with? 471 00:21:16,829 --> 00:21:19,500 Speaker 2: I think a lot of them, they do struggle with 472 00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:22,699 Speaker 2: a lot of childhood trauma related matters. So I think, 473 00:21:22,709 --> 00:21:24,900 Speaker 2: you know what I shared earlier, there are two key 474 00:21:24,910 --> 00:21:27,750 Speaker 2: stages to it, which is the childhood experience and also 475 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,430 Speaker 2: the later developmental years. So the rule of thumb is 476 00:21:30,660 --> 00:21:34,929 Speaker 2: the earlier and more frequent the event that is frightening 477 00:21:34,939 --> 00:21:37,750 Speaker 2: and traumatic for you, the larger it leaves the imprint 478 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,849 Speaker 2: on you. And that in a way, it gets a 479 00:21:39,859 --> 00:21:42,670 Speaker 2: bit harder to kind of navigate through the wound because 480 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,010 Speaker 2: it's so deeply ingrained. Since childhood, you went through series 481 00:21:47,020 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 2: and experiences that made you feel not good enough, right? 482 00:21:50,449 --> 00:21:53,930 Speaker 2: That made you feel unlovable, abandoned and rejected. And then 483 00:21:53,939 --> 00:21:56,579 Speaker 2: later on in life, you experience something similar, maybe you 484 00:21:56,589 --> 00:21:59,938 Speaker 2: got cheated by your boyfriend, you got abandoned and ghosted 485 00:21:59,949 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: by 486 00:22:00,390 --> 00:22:03,790 Speaker 2: your close friend by a colleague. So all of these experiences, 487 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,510 Speaker 2: it adds on to the same layer of pain, right? 488 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,129 Speaker 2: It echoes the same familiar pain of I am not enough. 489 00:22:11,140 --> 00:22:13,969 Speaker 2: I'm unwanted. I'm unworthy of love this world that I'm 490 00:22:13,979 --> 00:22:16,540 Speaker 2: in feels very unsafe. And because of that, I need 491 00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 2: to put, you know, my walls really high so that 492 00:22:18,689 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 2: I can protect myself from not feeling hurt again. 493 00:22:21,369 --> 00:22:22,339 Speaker 1: Well, this sounds linked 494 00:22:22,349 --> 00:22:24,530 Speaker 1: to a story that I'm about to share with all 495 00:22:24,540 --> 00:22:26,659 Speaker 1: of you here. Maybe you can offer some insight into 496 00:22:26,670 --> 00:22:30,129 Speaker 1: the mental perspective of this person experiencing retroactive 497 00:22:30,239 --> 00:22:34,500 Speaker 1: jealousy. Ok. So interestingly, the title of her story is 498 00:22:34,510 --> 00:22:36,939 Speaker 1: why can't she just get married? Ok. So this is 499 00:22:36,949 --> 00:22:39,469 Speaker 1: written by a female online user. She says that her 500 00:22:39,479 --> 00:22:42,770 Speaker 1: retroactive jealousy has been triggered around only one of her 501 00:22:42,780 --> 00:22:47,150 Speaker 1: husband's exes his most significant relationship before ours. And this 502 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,958 Speaker 1: is because of a few reasons. Number one, he was 503 00:22:48,969 --> 00:22:51,530 Speaker 1: still so about the breakup when he started dating, which 504 00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:54,579 Speaker 1: is in my honest opinion, the red flag. OK. Number two, 505 00:22:54,589 --> 00:22:56,979 Speaker 1: his ex is six years younger than her and she 506 00:22:56,989 --> 00:23:00,020 Speaker 1: believes that his ex is more attractive because she's younger. Right? 507 00:23:00,290 --> 00:23:02,890 Speaker 1: And number three, the ex shares more in common with 508 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:05,429 Speaker 1: her husband in terms of hobbies and last, but not 509 00:23:05,439 --> 00:23:08,129 Speaker 1: least the husband and the ex have been broken up 510 00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:10,708 Speaker 1: for more than three years and she is still with 511 00:23:10,719 --> 00:23:13,250 Speaker 1: the guy she left him for, but they have not 512 00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:15,349 Speaker 1: taken the next few steps in their relationship, meaning the 513 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,430 Speaker 1: ex and the new guy have not gotten the house together, 514 00:23:17,439 --> 00:23:20,869 Speaker 1: have not gotten married. So this user stalks the ex 515 00:23:21,170 --> 00:23:23,770 Speaker 1: every time to see if she's getting married because she 516 00:23:23,780 --> 00:23:26,750 Speaker 1: feels like only when the ex has gotten married, she 517 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:27,069 Speaker 1: would feel 518 00:23:27,152 --> 00:23:30,633 Speaker 1: secure. Like, ok, now she's officially off the shelves. I 519 00:23:30,642 --> 00:23:32,662 Speaker 1: can have the husband to myself and then you think 520 00:23:32,672 --> 00:23:36,503 Speaker 1: nothing can happen just because she's married. That is true. Yeah. 521 00:23:36,512 --> 00:23:39,442 Speaker 1: So I feel like the problem stems from the female 522 00:23:39,453 --> 00:23:42,483 Speaker 1: user herself. Not so much of the act and this 523 00:23:42,493 --> 00:23:44,141 Speaker 1: retroactive jealousy has eaten 524 00:23:44,152 --> 00:23:45,292 Speaker 1: so much of her. 525 00:23:45,442 --> 00:23:48,811 Speaker 2: I think it echoes what we've been talking about that 526 00:23:48,821 --> 00:23:52,442 Speaker 2: her sense of security, her sense of safety and self 527 00:23:52,453 --> 00:23:53,932 Speaker 2: is dependent on what 528 00:23:54,015 --> 00:23:56,514 Speaker 2: happens out there. So, in this case is dependent on 529 00:23:56,526 --> 00:23:59,416 Speaker 2: whether that X gets married or not. Right to her. 530 00:23:59,526 --> 00:24:01,955 Speaker 2: I think in this world where she believes in is 531 00:24:01,965 --> 00:24:07,156 Speaker 2: like she gets married, then my security with my partner is, yeah, 532 00:24:07,166 --> 00:24:08,836 Speaker 2: it's ok. It's cool. It's not 533 00:24:08,845 --> 00:24:08,995 Speaker 1: if 534 00:24:09,005 --> 00:24:11,566 Speaker 1: you had a client like that, right? What would your 535 00:24:11,576 --> 00:24:13,865 Speaker 1: remedy like, what would you tell her to do to 536 00:24:13,875 --> 00:24:17,026 Speaker 1: like bring that safety back to herself? She even still 537 00:24:17,036 --> 00:24:19,875 Speaker 1: be in this relationship because I feel like it's 538 00:24:19,885 --> 00:24:20,795 Speaker 1: somehow talks. 539 00:24:21,068 --> 00:24:22,697 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that the only way for you 540 00:24:22,708 --> 00:24:25,259 Speaker 2: to get clarity on whether to stay or to leave 541 00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:28,548 Speaker 2: is to really work through what's going on. So one 542 00:24:28,558 --> 00:24:30,499 Speaker 2: of the core things in terms of the things that 543 00:24:30,509 --> 00:24:33,409 Speaker 2: I do with my clients is not just about rehashing, 544 00:24:33,417 --> 00:24:35,739 Speaker 2: talking and revisiting what happened to you, right? Because I 545 00:24:35,749 --> 00:24:38,168 Speaker 2: have a lot of clients coming in initially saying, you know, 546 00:24:38,178 --> 00:24:40,989 Speaker 2: I know so much about retroactive jealousy. I know about 547 00:24:40,999 --> 00:24:44,198 Speaker 2: attachment styles. I read about childhood trauma. But why is 548 00:24:44,208 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 2: it that I can't stop this obsessive loop? Why is 549 00:24:47,167 --> 00:24:47,658 Speaker 2: it that I cannot 550 00:24:47,741 --> 00:24:51,521 Speaker 2: stop assessing about what's happening with my partner's exes? And 551 00:24:51,531 --> 00:24:53,511 Speaker 2: the reason to that when I hear this, it is 552 00:24:53,521 --> 00:24:56,641 Speaker 2: because of the mind, body disconnect your mind is telling you, ok, 553 00:24:56,651 --> 00:24:58,222 Speaker 2: you need to move on, you need to be a 554 00:24:58,232 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 2: better version of yourself. You need to stop this obsession. However, 555 00:25:02,131 --> 00:25:04,802 Speaker 2: what we know about the body is that it remembers 556 00:25:04,811 --> 00:25:08,962 Speaker 2: and it stores memories from the past painful emotions, sensation, 557 00:25:08,972 --> 00:25:12,281 Speaker 2: stories from the past. If that part of the body, right? 558 00:25:12,291 --> 00:25:14,521 Speaker 2: This part is not worked and looked into 559 00:25:14,665 --> 00:25:16,645 Speaker 2: what you find is that there will be a greater 560 00:25:16,655 --> 00:25:19,015 Speaker 2: disconnect between what the mind wants you to do and 561 00:25:19,025 --> 00:25:21,875 Speaker 2: what the body remembers. So it's not just about talking 562 00:25:21,885 --> 00:25:24,614 Speaker 2: about it. It's about asking yourself this very important question. 563 00:25:24,625 --> 00:25:26,185 Speaker 2: So the clients that I work with would be very 564 00:25:26,194 --> 00:25:28,464 Speaker 2: familiar with me asking this question. And it is this 565 00:25:28,474 --> 00:25:31,104 Speaker 2: question of what are you feeling in your body right now? 566 00:25:31,564 --> 00:25:33,823 Speaker 2: What is that felt in a sensation that you're feeling 567 00:25:33,834 --> 00:25:36,165 Speaker 2: in your body right now? And what this question does 568 00:25:36,175 --> 00:25:39,204 Speaker 2: it forces the client to pause and be like, oh, 569 00:25:39,214 --> 00:25:41,305 Speaker 2: am I supposed to feel something in my body? 570 00:25:41,699 --> 00:25:44,339 Speaker 2: And then they start noticing that, oh, I'm actually feeling 571 00:25:44,349 --> 00:25:48,329 Speaker 2: something in my body, right? Maybe your chest tightens, right? 572 00:25:48,339 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 2: You're feeling something here. Maybe you feel that not in 573 00:25:51,170 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: your stomach, your palms get sweaty, your fingers, you know, 574 00:25:54,810 --> 00:25:56,839 Speaker 2: you feel that tingling sensation and your arms 575 00:25:56,964 --> 00:25:59,344 Speaker 2: feel very nump. So these are the things that you 576 00:25:59,354 --> 00:26:01,224 Speaker 2: want to be able to take note of. What is 577 00:26:01,234 --> 00:26:04,324 Speaker 2: your body trying to speak to you on noticing the sensation. 578 00:26:04,334 --> 00:26:06,964 Speaker 2: And when you stay with that sensation, long enough, something 579 00:26:06,974 --> 00:26:09,074 Speaker 2: will come to you. It will reveal to you the 580 00:26:09,084 --> 00:26:12,104 Speaker 2: deeper layer of the emotion that you're still carrying. 581 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,050 Speaker 2: It will reveal to you the deeper layer of some 582 00:26:15,060 --> 00:26:18,030 Speaker 2: memory that you're still holding on to. That is still 583 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: very painful. 584 00:26:18,810 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: It takes a 585 00:26:19,290 --> 00:26:24,030 Speaker 1: lot of work on an individual's part to really confront yourself. 586 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,069 Speaker 1: And I think for people that have not having an 587 00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:30,489 Speaker 1: understanding partner will definitely make it a lot easier for 588 00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:33,239 Speaker 1: you to do that. But in this next story, this 589 00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:35,229 Speaker 1: is tough. It's a female. My boyfriend and I have 590 00:26:35,239 --> 00:26:37,599 Speaker 1: been dating for three months we met on Bumble. He 591 00:26:37,609 --> 00:26:40,109 Speaker 1: was previously engaged to someone that he met online as 592 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,650 Speaker 1: well and they were doing long distance 593 00:26:41,779 --> 00:26:44,318 Speaker 1: for two years, right? And they had plans to marry. 594 00:26:44,328 --> 00:26:46,938 Speaker 1: She had plans to move and, you know, and all that, 595 00:26:46,948 --> 00:26:49,848 Speaker 1: but they eventually called off the engagement because she had 596 00:26:49,859 --> 00:26:52,667 Speaker 1: been holding on to a lot of relationship issues, but 597 00:26:52,678 --> 00:26:54,389 Speaker 1: she didn't really share that with him. So he didn't 598 00:26:54,398 --> 00:26:56,619 Speaker 1: have closure, right? And he kept trying to like win 599 00:26:56,629 --> 00:26:58,649 Speaker 1: her back, kept trying to, you know, try to make 600 00:26:58,659 --> 00:27:01,629 Speaker 1: the relationship work. He really loved her after they broke up. 601 00:27:01,638 --> 00:27:05,269 Speaker 1: He dated like four different girls before finally dating the 602 00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:08,259 Speaker 1: poster who posted this. Now she has a bit of 603 00:27:08,269 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: retroactive jealousy and she thinks, well, see, 604 00:27:10,988 --> 00:27:13,056 Speaker 1: like that girl was his one true love. Who am 605 00:27:13,067 --> 00:27:14,717 Speaker 1: I in his life? And he had to date so 606 00:27:14,728 --> 00:27:16,848 Speaker 1: many people to get over her. What do I have 607 00:27:16,858 --> 00:27:19,767 Speaker 1: to fit into his life? She says that she knows 608 00:27:19,777 --> 00:27:22,848 Speaker 1: she needs therapy but she can't really afford it right now. 609 00:27:23,137 --> 00:27:27,186 Speaker 1: And he understands that this is retroactive jealousy but it 610 00:27:27,196 --> 00:27:29,667 Speaker 1: does make them feel a little bit more distant. It's 611 00:27:29,677 --> 00:27:31,527 Speaker 1: hard to deal with. Right. Even as a partner, it's 612 00:27:31,537 --> 00:27:34,987 Speaker 1: hard to be supportive. Have you seen situations like that? 613 00:27:34,998 --> 00:27:37,947 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that this deals with the 614 00:27:37,958 --> 00:27:40,167 Speaker 2: wound of not being true, 615 00:27:40,317 --> 00:27:44,386 Speaker 2: chosen and being prioritized in the past. And that's why 616 00:27:44,396 --> 00:27:46,916 Speaker 2: it's coming up today as why can't I be his 617 00:27:46,927 --> 00:27:50,005 Speaker 2: one and only, right? Why am I not the chosen one? 618 00:27:50,026 --> 00:27:51,495 Speaker 2: Am I not good enough for him? 619 00:27:51,506 --> 00:27:52,107 Speaker 1: And that's not 620 00:27:52,116 --> 00:27:53,995 Speaker 1: true. Yeah. So what would you tell the 621 00:27:54,006 --> 00:27:54,577 Speaker 1: clients? 622 00:27:54,666 --> 00:27:56,857 Speaker 2: I would love to be able to tell them in 623 00:27:56,866 --> 00:27:59,466 Speaker 2: a sentence. But I think it's so hard because there 624 00:27:59,477 --> 00:28:01,546 Speaker 2: are many layers to it. But what I would say 625 00:28:01,557 --> 00:28:04,357 Speaker 2: to this person is to get curious about where this 626 00:28:04,366 --> 00:28:07,237 Speaker 2: voice is coming from, this narrative that's coming to you 627 00:28:07,246 --> 00:28:09,337 Speaker 2: of like, why can't I be his one and only 628 00:28:09,566 --> 00:28:12,744 Speaker 2: allow yourself to look deeper and to see whether other 629 00:28:12,755 --> 00:28:15,605 Speaker 2: past experiences that you've been through in your life, maybe 630 00:28:15,615 --> 00:28:17,865 Speaker 2: in your childhood experiences that made you feel that way 631 00:28:17,875 --> 00:28:21,196 Speaker 2: where you felt as though you weren't chosen. You felt 632 00:28:21,205 --> 00:28:24,125 Speaker 2: as though you weren't made priority number one. And I 633 00:28:24,135 --> 00:28:26,705 Speaker 2: think the more you get curious about past stories that 634 00:28:26,715 --> 00:28:29,826 Speaker 2: your body is still holding on to, it gets you 635 00:28:29,836 --> 00:28:32,264 Speaker 2: to get a bit closer to what it is that 636 00:28:32,276 --> 00:28:34,744 Speaker 2: you need to have that closure with. 637 00:28:34,755 --> 00:28:35,536 Speaker 1: So once you 638 00:28:35,546 --> 00:28:38,745 Speaker 1: identify, right? OK. This is coming from this in the past. 639 00:28:39,025 --> 00:28:41,025 Speaker 1: Yeah. What's the next step? Like what, how do you 640 00:28:41,035 --> 00:28:42,035 Speaker 1: get to closure? 641 00:28:42,045 --> 00:28:44,885 Speaker 2: You work with your body? For example, when you understand 642 00:28:44,895 --> 00:28:47,275 Speaker 2: the patterns that's coming up the question to ask yourself 643 00:28:47,285 --> 00:28:50,194 Speaker 2: where when this trigger comes up, where am I feeling 644 00:28:50,204 --> 00:28:53,025 Speaker 2: in my body? Let's say it's coming through your chest, right? 645 00:28:53,035 --> 00:28:55,175 Speaker 2: When you stay with it long enough, sometimes what comes 646 00:28:55,185 --> 00:28:58,305 Speaker 2: up is I'm feeling sadness that's coming up when you 647 00:28:58,314 --> 00:29:01,055 Speaker 2: stay with it long enough. Sometimes a memory comes to 648 00:29:01,064 --> 00:29:03,515 Speaker 2: you and maybe you see a younger version of yourself, 649 00:29:03,525 --> 00:29:06,425 Speaker 2: maybe 56 year old, you that's curled up in one 650 00:29:06,435 --> 00:29:08,015 Speaker 2: corner of the room. 651 00:29:08,144 --> 00:29:11,563 Speaker 2: And then what you're also seeing is that you're hearing noises, 652 00:29:11,573 --> 00:29:14,563 Speaker 2: your parents fighting outside the room, and you're also connecting 653 00:29:14,573 --> 00:29:16,854 Speaker 2: to this experience of this younger version of you who 654 00:29:16,864 --> 00:29:21,083 Speaker 2: feels really sad, very torn that your parents are constantly fighting, 655 00:29:21,213 --> 00:29:24,484 Speaker 2: feeling very lonely that you know, you don't have anybody 656 00:29:24,494 --> 00:29:27,624 Speaker 2: to talk to, to turn to in those times, right? 657 00:29:27,634 --> 00:29:30,473 Speaker 2: So these are the parts of ourselves that we want 658 00:29:30,484 --> 00:29:33,683 Speaker 2: to get curious on because these are important data and 659 00:29:33,693 --> 00:29:36,443 Speaker 2: insights that we want to collect about ourselves. So that 660 00:29:36,453 --> 00:29:37,343 Speaker 2: the more we understand 661 00:29:37,432 --> 00:29:40,812 Speaker 2: and parts of ourselves that are still frozen in the past, 662 00:29:41,062 --> 00:29:42,993 Speaker 2: the more we are able to come in to help 663 00:29:43,003 --> 00:29:45,453 Speaker 2: these younger wooden parts on the inside. So 664 00:29:45,463 --> 00:29:48,772 Speaker 1: after understanding all of those, is it possible for retroactive 665 00:29:48,782 --> 00:29:49,292 Speaker 1: jealousy to 666 00:29:49,302 --> 00:29:50,412 Speaker 1: completely go away? 667 00:29:50,422 --> 00:29:51,932 Speaker 2: I would say it is possible to 668 00:29:51,942 --> 00:29:52,412 Speaker 1: heal 669 00:29:52,422 --> 00:29:55,133 Speaker 2: from retroactive jealousy. And what I mean by healing is 670 00:29:55,142 --> 00:29:58,723 Speaker 2: number one, you have a more transformed relationship with your 671 00:29:58,733 --> 00:30:01,552 Speaker 2: triggers and your emotions, right? So instead of seeing those 672 00:30:01,562 --> 00:30:03,542 Speaker 2: as like, oh my God, I need to fear my 673 00:30:03,552 --> 00:30:06,243 Speaker 2: triggers and my emotions, you come from a place of 674 00:30:06,253 --> 00:30:06,613 Speaker 2: oh there 675 00:30:06,722 --> 00:30:09,621 Speaker 2: coming up right now. So what is the message you're 676 00:30:09,631 --> 00:30:11,342 Speaker 2: trying to speak to me on? So you come in 677 00:30:11,352 --> 00:30:14,741 Speaker 2: from the lens of curiosity and compassion to learn more. 678 00:30:14,751 --> 00:30:16,932 Speaker 2: Number two, what you'll notice is that there will be 679 00:30:16,942 --> 00:30:21,812 Speaker 2: a reduced dependency and reliance on external factors and validation 680 00:30:21,822 --> 00:30:24,702 Speaker 2: in order for you to feel secure and safe in 681 00:30:24,712 --> 00:30:26,991 Speaker 2: your own body, in order for you to feel secure 682 00:30:27,001 --> 00:30:30,251 Speaker 2: and safe in your relationship. And number three, you realize 683 00:30:30,261 --> 00:30:32,911 Speaker 2: that there will be a greater degree of acceptance when 684 00:30:32,921 --> 00:30:35,621 Speaker 2: it comes to the concept of healing, right? You no 685 00:30:35,631 --> 00:30:35,901 Speaker 2: longer 686 00:30:36,010 --> 00:30:37,970 Speaker 2: see it as you know, healing is something that is 687 00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:40,630 Speaker 2: like an end destination, an end goal which I have 688 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,301 Speaker 2: to rush to, to complete and that's it. It's not 689 00:30:43,311 --> 00:30:46,071 Speaker 2: like a one off thing but healing. It is this 690 00:30:46,081 --> 00:30:50,110 Speaker 2: continuous ongoing journey that you have to move through till 691 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,510 Speaker 2: your very last breath. And I feel like when we 692 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:58,260 Speaker 2: reframe and have a healthier relationship on how we view 693 00:30:58,321 --> 00:31:02,270 Speaker 2: doing the work, seeing the different emotional parts, it helps 694 00:31:02,281 --> 00:31:05,191 Speaker 2: to create an inner world that feels actually ok 695 00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:07,599 Speaker 2: to be in, you know, not a scary place that 696 00:31:07,609 --> 00:31:10,859 Speaker 2: we have to constantly run away from or run to 697 00:31:10,869 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: people in order to feel ok within our own selves. 698 00:31:14,010 --> 00:31:17,660 Speaker 1: Interesting. So last question, what if today I'm not the 699 00:31:17,670 --> 00:31:21,660 Speaker 1: one experiencing retroactive jealousy, but my partner is, how can 700 00:31:21,670 --> 00:31:22,369 Speaker 1: I better support 701 00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: my partner? 702 00:31:23,209 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: I would say one of the things it is being 703 00:31:25,890 --> 00:31:29,229 Speaker 2: able to listen without judgment because for someone who is 704 00:31:29,239 --> 00:31:32,819 Speaker 2: struggling with retroactive jealousy, there's already so much shame that 705 00:31:32,829 --> 00:31:34,479 Speaker 2: they're dealing with on the inside, right? 706 00:31:34,588 --> 00:31:37,649 Speaker 2: If a partner were to come in and try to 707 00:31:37,659 --> 00:31:40,779 Speaker 2: shame the person label them, you know, you're like, you know, 708 00:31:40,788 --> 00:31:45,109 Speaker 2: dramatic diva, you know, crazy. It makes that part of 709 00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:48,759 Speaker 2: them that's holding on to that pain of being abandoned, rejected, 710 00:31:48,769 --> 00:31:51,328 Speaker 2: want to close off even more and that part wouldn't 711 00:31:51,338 --> 00:31:53,838 Speaker 2: want to come out and share the story of what 712 00:31:53,848 --> 00:31:56,029 Speaker 2: is really causing him or her to be in pain. 713 00:31:56,038 --> 00:31:59,488 Speaker 2: Number two, I would say it is important for the 714 00:31:59,499 --> 00:32:03,639 Speaker 2: person who is supporting someone with retroactive jealousy to also 715 00:32:03,649 --> 00:32:03,768 Speaker 2: be 716 00:32:03,878 --> 00:32:07,378 Speaker 2: aware of boundaries because it can get exhausting to be 717 00:32:07,387 --> 00:32:10,567 Speaker 2: able to navigate through the conversations, the discussions with someone 718 00:32:10,578 --> 00:32:14,537 Speaker 2: who's struggling with that. So be aware of your internal capacity, 719 00:32:14,547 --> 00:32:17,037 Speaker 2: have self care practices for yourself to make sure that 720 00:32:17,047 --> 00:32:19,478 Speaker 2: you yourself, I think you care of yourself, you're filling 721 00:32:19,488 --> 00:32:21,508 Speaker 2: up your own cup so that you can be in 722 00:32:21,517 --> 00:32:24,088 Speaker 2: a space to help your partner as well. And I 723 00:32:24,098 --> 00:32:26,806 Speaker 2: think number three is to be able to encourage healthier 724 00:32:26,817 --> 00:32:30,108 Speaker 2: coping mechanisms. So if you're noticing that the person is 725 00:32:30,118 --> 00:32:32,828 Speaker 2: indulging in a lot of obsessive sort of tools and 726 00:32:32,838 --> 00:32:33,057 Speaker 2: coping 727 00:32:33,166 --> 00:32:36,006 Speaker 2: mechanisms to be able to gently let them know that 728 00:32:36,016 --> 00:32:38,866 Speaker 2: this is happening and to encourage them to also seek 729 00:32:38,876 --> 00:32:41,906 Speaker 2: professional support because, you know, on your own, it can 730 00:32:41,916 --> 00:32:45,587 Speaker 2: be really, really hard to navigate all the deep dark 731 00:32:45,597 --> 00:32:49,187 Speaker 2: parts inside of yourself on your own. But having that 732 00:32:49,197 --> 00:32:52,467 Speaker 2: someone that is neutral who is able to come in 733 00:32:52,477 --> 00:32:55,746 Speaker 2: to compassionately listen to your story, hold space for your 734 00:32:55,756 --> 00:32:58,786 Speaker 2: emotions and walk with you in that journey. My gosh, 735 00:32:58,796 --> 00:33:02,187 Speaker 2: it will feel like a huge load of whatever it 736 00:33:02,197 --> 00:33:02,347 Speaker 2: is 737 00:33:02,456 --> 00:33:03,864 Speaker 2: that you're holding on the inside. 738 00:33:03,875 --> 00:33:04,495 Speaker 1: But it's not 739 00:33:04,505 --> 00:33:07,916 Speaker 1: easy for a partner to be doing all that. You know, 740 00:33:07,926 --> 00:33:11,355 Speaker 1: because I think when it's in regards to you, your 741 00:33:11,365 --> 00:33:15,156 Speaker 1: partner is being jealous about your past, right? I think 742 00:33:15,166 --> 00:33:19,166 Speaker 1: it's very easy for someone to feel attacked for something 743 00:33:19,176 --> 00:33:22,676 Speaker 1: that they had no control over because it was just 744 00:33:22,686 --> 00:33:25,786 Speaker 1: part of life and you're coming at me with something 745 00:33:25,796 --> 00:33:28,456 Speaker 1: that I can't do anything about. I can't undo I 746 00:33:28,465 --> 00:33:31,635 Speaker 1: can't change. So I think that's how things 747 00:33:31,744 --> 00:33:34,635 Speaker 1: escalate. Right. I would presume because, you know, it's very 748 00:33:34,645 --> 00:33:37,385 Speaker 1: easy for the other person to feel affected by your 749 00:33:37,395 --> 00:33:39,795 Speaker 1: emotions and they can't do anything about it. 750 00:33:40,314 --> 00:33:40,604 Speaker 2: I guess 751 00:33:40,614 --> 00:33:40,805 Speaker 1: this 752 00:33:40,814 --> 00:33:43,265 Speaker 1: is what like no said, it's a constant work in 753 00:33:43,275 --> 00:33:46,704 Speaker 1: progress up to your very last breath. Wow, this, this 754 00:33:46,714 --> 00:33:51,395 Speaker 1: is an insane episode. We unpack so much trauma but 755 00:33:51,405 --> 00:33:54,214 Speaker 1: before we go, no, any final pearls of wisdom for 756 00:33:54,224 --> 00:33:54,795 Speaker 1: our audience. 757 00:33:54,895 --> 00:33:58,074 Speaker 2: Um I would say if this flavor of jealousy is 758 00:33:58,084 --> 00:34:00,964 Speaker 2: something that speaks to you, I want you to know that, 759 00:34:01,209 --> 00:34:03,479 Speaker 2: you know, you're not alone. You know, there's so many 760 00:34:03,489 --> 00:34:06,959 Speaker 2: individuals who also struggling with this, both men and women 761 00:34:06,969 --> 00:34:09,509 Speaker 2: just because we don't talk about it a lot and 762 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,029 Speaker 2: often does not mean that it does not exist, does 763 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,340 Speaker 2: not mean that it's not common, right? So that's one. 764 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,310 Speaker 2: And I want you to know that, you know, whatever 765 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,129 Speaker 2: you're feeling right now, this sense of jealousy has nothing 766 00:34:19,139 --> 00:34:22,870 Speaker 2: to be ashamed of because jealousy, it is a universal 767 00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 2: human experience. It is a natural emotional response 768 00:34:26,989 --> 00:34:30,829 Speaker 2: to something inside of you that feels threatened outside. So 769 00:34:30,839 --> 00:34:33,658 Speaker 2: our role is not to add more shame and judgment 770 00:34:33,668 --> 00:34:35,509 Speaker 2: to it, but it is to be able to come 771 00:34:35,518 --> 00:34:38,418 Speaker 2: in from that lens of understanding OK. Right now something 772 00:34:38,428 --> 00:34:41,299 Speaker 2: feels off. I feel threatened by something. How can I 773 00:34:41,309 --> 00:34:44,138 Speaker 2: go in to understand a bit more on what is 774 00:34:44,148 --> 00:34:46,288 Speaker 2: below the water line and to see it for what 775 00:34:46,299 --> 00:34:48,897 Speaker 2: it is, which is a signal, a message, right? That's 776 00:34:48,908 --> 00:34:50,848 Speaker 2: trying to speak to us on something and not to 777 00:34:50,858 --> 00:34:51,457 Speaker 2: take it 778 00:34:51,668 --> 00:34:53,668 Speaker 2: as a life sentence. And I think the more we're 779 00:34:53,678 --> 00:34:57,368 Speaker 2: able to do this work, to form this relationship with ourselves, 780 00:34:57,378 --> 00:35:00,489 Speaker 2: to get curious about our triggers our emotions, the more 781 00:35:00,498 --> 00:35:03,009 Speaker 2: our inner world will feel like a safe place to 782 00:35:03,018 --> 00:35:05,607 Speaker 2: be in. And this can help to create a conducive 783 00:35:05,618 --> 00:35:08,718 Speaker 2: environment to deepen our healing and to make sure that, 784 00:35:08,729 --> 00:35:11,938 Speaker 2: you know, we are, are living life to the fullest. 785 00:35:12,638 --> 00:35:14,819 Speaker 1: I love that. Thank you so much. No. Thank you 786 00:35:14,829 --> 00:35:16,808 Speaker 1: for sharing your wisdom with us today 787 00:35:16,899 --> 00:35:20,219 Speaker 1: and yeah, take some time to reflect as always with 788 00:35:20,229 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: any episode after Nora, we all have to sit and 789 00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:24,879 Speaker 1: reflect on what she said. And I'm sure we can 790 00:35:24,889 --> 00:35:28,389 Speaker 1: find more little tidbits on Nora's Instagram at the Good 791 00:35:28,399 --> 00:35:31,219 Speaker 1: Life underscore therapy. Don't forget to follow them and also 792 00:35:31,229 --> 00:35:33,870 Speaker 1: follow us as well at isla.co. That's right. You can 793 00:35:33,879 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: listen to us and me listen, Spotify Apple podcast on 794 00:35:36,850 --> 00:35:40,179 Speaker 1: your notification. We're on youtube as well and who knows 795 00:35:40,189 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: Nora might come back for a third time. 796 00:35:42,919 --> 00:35:44,638 Speaker 1: No, but thank you so much. Thank you so 797 00:35:44,850 --> 00:35:44,909 Speaker 1: much. 798 00:35:45,860 --> 00:35:47,820 Speaker 1: I'll see you next time. Bye.