1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,299 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:05,119 --> 00:00:08,189 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone and welcome back to Heart of The Matter 3 00:00:08,199 --> 00:00:10,710 Speaker 1: with me, Steven CIA. We're back from our break today. 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,010 Speaker 1: We're diving into an issue that all parents at some 5 00:00:14,020 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: point in their life will have encountered primary school registration 6 00:00:18,489 --> 00:00:21,729 Speaker 1: for the uninitiated registering kids to enter primary school. Of 7 00:00:21,739 --> 00:00:24,209 Speaker 1: your choice in Singapore is something of an art. It 8 00:00:24,219 --> 00:00:27,549 Speaker 1: requires planning a bit of strategy and a lot of 9 00:00:27,559 --> 00:00:28,719 Speaker 1: nerve I think, 10 00:00:29,420 --> 00:00:31,450 Speaker 1: you know, you might be that parent who is eyeing 11 00:00:31,459 --> 00:00:33,540 Speaker 1: a choice spot in a brand name school. And because 12 00:00:33,549 --> 00:00:35,790 Speaker 1: of that, you may have bought a new home within 13 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:37,958 Speaker 1: two kilometers of the school or you might have spent 14 00:00:37,970 --> 00:00:40,970 Speaker 1: days of your life volunteering at the school years ahead 15 00:00:40,979 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: of registration. On the flip side, you might be the 16 00:00:43,490 --> 00:00:46,250 Speaker 1: chill parent who doesn't buy into all this fuss and 17 00:00:46,259 --> 00:00:50,229 Speaker 1: just enrolls your child in the nearest available school. You 18 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,630 Speaker 1: are a rare breed, but no one can deny the 19 00:00:52,639 --> 00:00:55,439 Speaker 1: fact that this is indeed a talking point among all 20 00:00:55,450 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: parents in Singa. 21 00:00:56,935 --> 00:00:59,505 Speaker 1: In fact that wonderful current affairs show talking point has 22 00:00:59,514 --> 00:01:01,884 Speaker 1: looked into this issue many times before you know, not, 23 00:01:01,895 --> 00:01:04,914 Speaker 1: not that I'm biased at all. Ok. So over the years, 24 00:01:04,925 --> 00:01:06,745 Speaker 1: there have been tweaks to the system but it does 25 00:01:06,754 --> 00:01:09,393 Speaker 1: not seem to have had much impact. The popular schools 26 00:01:09,404 --> 00:01:13,345 Speaker 1: are still oversubscribed each year and this year included. So 27 00:01:13,355 --> 00:01:16,654 Speaker 1: the question we ask is why is it still happening? 28 00:01:16,665 --> 00:01:19,684 Speaker 1: Why are parental attitudes so hard to shift? How does 29 00:01:19,694 --> 00:01:21,574 Speaker 1: a brand name primary school make a difference in a 30 00:01:21,584 --> 00:01:23,375 Speaker 1: child's educational journey 31 00:01:24,580 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: with me to discuss this issue are Ong Jin, father 32 00:01:28,370 --> 00:01:32,940 Speaker 1: and founder of SG schooling dot com. I'm associate professor 33 00:01:32,949 --> 00:01:36,470 Speaker 1: Jason Tan from the National Institute of Education. Hello, everyone 34 00:01:36,489 --> 00:01:39,029 Speaker 1: than Huimin, a mother of two who has just registered 35 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,889 Speaker 1: her six year old at Singapore Chinese girls' school. Hello, everyone. 36 00:01:42,919 --> 00:01:45,929 Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to heart of the matter first. Let me say, 37 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:47,839 Speaker 1: you know, I've been there, done that and I'm actually 38 00:01:47,849 --> 00:01:49,709 Speaker 1: kind of glad my kids are done with primary school. 39 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:50,110 Speaker 1: So 40 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,330 Speaker 1: different kind of stresses to deal with today. But Junta 41 00:01:53,339 --> 00:01:54,739 Speaker 1: I'm going to start with you. You've got a bit 42 00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:57,050 Speaker 1: of a story on your search for a primary school 43 00:01:57,059 --> 00:01:59,620 Speaker 1: for your daughter. You had three schools in sight and 44 00:01:59,769 --> 00:02:02,169 Speaker 1: initially it was not possible to get into any of them. 45 00:02:02,410 --> 00:02:04,230 Speaker 1: Maybe you can tell us. So why you pick those 46 00:02:04,239 --> 00:02:07,290 Speaker 1: schools in the first place and what problems you encountered? Firstly, 47 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:09,779 Speaker 1: I filtered by location, so I stay in Yishun so 48 00:02:09,788 --> 00:02:12,059 Speaker 1: I filter the most unwilling to travel is up to 49 00:02:12,070 --> 00:02:16,179 Speaker 1: like a within those regions. I shortlist of schools for 50 00:02:16,190 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: me kind of fall into the Council Parents kind. So 51 00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:22,899 Speaker 1: of course, wants to enroll in the top schools if possible, 52 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,169 Speaker 1: it's very difficult. Of course, you must weigh against. Is 53 00:02:25,179 --> 00:02:27,970 Speaker 1: it possible to even get in? Because sometimes even if 54 00:02:27,979 --> 00:02:29,419 Speaker 1: you move house, you might not be able to be 55 00:02:29,429 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 1: successful to get a place. 56 00:02:31,220 --> 00:02:33,410 Speaker 1: So we didn't get into those kind of top schools 57 00:02:33,419 --> 00:02:36,100 Speaker 1: when I say top school is those very, very popular one, 58 00:02:36,110 --> 00:02:39,470 Speaker 1: the brand name, brand name schools. So finally, we actually 59 00:02:39,479 --> 00:02:42,039 Speaker 1: get her into not a brand name school but it's 60 00:02:42,050 --> 00:02:44,550 Speaker 1: more popular in that region. Yeah. Would you mind telling 61 00:02:44,559 --> 00:02:47,288 Speaker 1: us the name of the school Anderson Primary? So they 62 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:50,149 Speaker 1: do accept parent volunteer. I got through through the phase 63 00:02:50,210 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: two B which is we volunteering for 40 hours. If 64 00:02:54,369 --> 00:02:56,199 Speaker 1: we talk about brand name schools, of course, most of 65 00:02:56,210 --> 00:02:58,779 Speaker 1: us are referring to the A CS MGSRGS, those kind 66 00:02:58,788 --> 00:02:59,970 Speaker 1: of schools, right? Usually 67 00:03:00,380 --> 00:03:02,769 Speaker 1: in the end you got in through the parent volunteer route. 68 00:03:02,779 --> 00:03:04,529 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Correct? Ok. And how did you feel 69 00:03:04,538 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: about doing that? How many hours of your life did 70 00:03:06,169 --> 00:03:08,860 Speaker 1: you volunteer for? Anderson is 40 hours, which is quite 71 00:03:08,869 --> 00:03:12,190 Speaker 1: the standard, but some schools goes as high as 80 hours. Ok. 72 00:03:12,199 --> 00:03:15,350 Speaker 1: What was your main criteria for choosing a school? Uh 73 00:03:15,389 --> 00:03:18,698 Speaker 1: very much? We, we want to have no regret a 74 00:03:18,710 --> 00:03:23,649 Speaker 1: school that offers the best opportunity, good environment women. Is 75 00:03:23,660 --> 00:03:27,279 Speaker 1: that the same for you, for us? Because I was 76 00:03:27,288 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: a alarm line. 77 00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:31,809 Speaker 1: And it just makes sense that we sent her to 78 00:03:31,869 --> 00:03:35,750 Speaker 1: the school that I spent 10 years in. And there's 79 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:39,449 Speaker 1: a certain heritage to it. I mean, my sisters were there. 80 00:03:39,460 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: My nieces spent their time in that school and we 81 00:03:43,610 --> 00:03:45,940 Speaker 1: found that to us, it was a good school. They 82 00:03:45,949 --> 00:03:50,190 Speaker 1: had good values that we wanted to share with our Children. 83 00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:51,949 Speaker 1: And I had a goal, 84 00:03:52,014 --> 00:03:55,235 Speaker 1: it was like the route for us to take because 85 00:03:55,244 --> 00:03:59,225 Speaker 1: I live with my parents and there are not very 86 00:03:59,235 --> 00:04:03,164 Speaker 1: many options of schools near where my parents are. In fact, 87 00:04:03,175 --> 00:04:05,505 Speaker 1: even for the school that my daughter is going to go, 88 00:04:05,514 --> 00:04:07,244 Speaker 1: it's not even within the two click 89 00:04:07,729 --> 00:04:11,178 Speaker 1: range, but we are thankful that she got in and 90 00:04:11,190 --> 00:04:14,460 Speaker 1: it just makes traveling to school slightly easier for us. 91 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,779 Speaker 1: But one would also ask, would you do the same 92 00:04:16,790 --> 00:04:20,329 Speaker 1: if you had been alumni of a non brand name school, 93 00:04:20,369 --> 00:04:23,029 Speaker 1: would you have continued to just register your daughter in 94 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,808 Speaker 1: that same school? Honestly, I've never thought about that. I 95 00:04:26,820 --> 00:04:30,959 Speaker 1: think another consideration that we also took into account was 96 00:04:30,970 --> 00:04:31,339 Speaker 1: that 97 00:04:31,690 --> 00:04:36,109 Speaker 1: the school had an affiliation to a secondary school which 98 00:04:36,119 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: we thought may at least take off some pressure of PSL, 99 00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:42,959 Speaker 1: you get a bit of a discount on your PSL degree. Yeah. 100 00:04:42,970 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: And hopefully because honestly, I'm not sure how my daughter 101 00:04:46,609 --> 00:04:46,790 Speaker 1: is going 102 00:04:46,934 --> 00:04:51,224 Speaker 1: be academically. I really hope that learning would be fun 103 00:04:51,234 --> 00:04:53,484 Speaker 1: for her. I think we all hope that for kids, 104 00:04:53,494 --> 00:04:55,664 Speaker 1: you know, that learning should be fun. One more question 105 00:04:55,674 --> 00:04:58,414 Speaker 1: for you. What, what if uh scgs had announced like 106 00:04:58,424 --> 00:05:00,535 Speaker 1: a CS that they would be moving to? I don't 107 00:05:00,545 --> 00:05:04,375 Speaker 1: know Punggol or Seng, would that have affected your decision 108 00:05:04,385 --> 00:05:07,375 Speaker 1: in choosing the school? It will definitely affect us because 109 00:05:07,385 --> 00:05:10,613 Speaker 1: then again, distance, I mean, my older boy is in 110 00:05:10,625 --> 00:05:13,964 Speaker 1: a primary school and we're not too far, but 111 00:05:14,459 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: I still have to be up at 5 30 in 112 00:05:16,329 --> 00:05:19,099 Speaker 1: the morning just to get myself ready and to get 113 00:05:19,109 --> 00:05:21,260 Speaker 1: the Children ready as well. I guess I'm just trying 114 00:05:21,269 --> 00:05:22,989 Speaker 1: to get a sense. Maybe jun Tai can also answer 115 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,779 Speaker 1: this in terms of when it comes to choosing a school, 116 00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:30,709 Speaker 1: the logistical element. How important is that factor? Because in 117 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: many of these cases, parents are willing to travel far 118 00:05:32,928 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: and wide just to send their kids to the school. 119 00:05:35,329 --> 00:05:36,670 Speaker 1: I live in the east, but I'll still send my 120 00:05:36,678 --> 00:05:38,029 Speaker 1: kids to the school in the west because it's a 121 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: brand name school. To me, it's not a 122 00:05:40,246 --> 00:05:43,015 Speaker 1: hurdle. I can move house. Actually, one of the plan 123 00:05:43,026 --> 00:05:45,936 Speaker 1: before we register is to consider, where can we move to? 124 00:05:45,946 --> 00:05:47,984 Speaker 1: So choose the school first, then you can work out 125 00:05:47,996 --> 00:05:52,275 Speaker 1: the rest for you. I think you see we never 126 00:05:52,286 --> 00:05:55,376 Speaker 1: took that into consideration when we got a flat when 127 00:05:55,385 --> 00:05:59,066 Speaker 1: we got married. Right. But I think moving would be 128 00:05:59,075 --> 00:06:02,734 Speaker 1: a bit difficult for us now because we actually made 129 00:06:02,746 --> 00:06:05,955 Speaker 1: the decision to move back with my parents during COVID. 130 00:06:06,272 --> 00:06:08,522 Speaker 1: But would you still move if your kids got into 131 00:06:08,532 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: the school of your choice? But it's now far away. 132 00:06:10,891 --> 00:06:13,510 Speaker 1: I think we will just have to make that journey 133 00:06:13,522 --> 00:06:16,522 Speaker 1: because I think it's hard for us to just tell 134 00:06:16,532 --> 00:06:18,842 Speaker 1: my parents, you know, what, for the next six years, 135 00:06:18,851 --> 00:06:20,992 Speaker 1: good luck to, you know, we have to do this 136 00:06:21,002 --> 00:06:24,312 Speaker 1: for our kids. Ok. So Jason, you've heard their stories. 137 00:06:24,321 --> 00:06:26,171 Speaker 1: Are you surprised by what you've heard? Not 138 00:06:26,182 --> 00:06:30,002 Speaker 2: in the least. I think it's quite evident just listening 139 00:06:30,011 --> 00:06:31,742 Speaker 2: to these two parents that 140 00:06:32,339 --> 00:06:37,750 Speaker 2: there's this very understandable desire to look for the best 141 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,970 Speaker 2: for their Children when it comes to selecting a primary school. 142 00:06:40,980 --> 00:06:45,609 Speaker 2: And we've heard both parents mention quite a few factors 143 00:06:45,910 --> 00:06:49,428 Speaker 2: such as the reputation of the school not wanting to 144 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: have any future regrets looking out for the best opportunities 145 00:06:53,369 --> 00:06:57,928 Speaker 2: possible for their Children, a suitable environment for their Children. 146 00:06:57,940 --> 00:07:00,529 Speaker 2: Um The inculcation of suitable values 147 00:07:00,928 --> 00:07:05,260 Speaker 2: and the heritage of a particular school that the parent 148 00:07:05,269 --> 00:07:08,980 Speaker 2: might have attended and has come to value over time. 149 00:07:09,059 --> 00:07:12,899 Speaker 1: So all these factors drive the parents' decision so to speak. 150 00:07:12,910 --> 00:07:14,959 Speaker 1: And I think this is something we struggle with because 151 00:07:14,970 --> 00:07:17,839 Speaker 1: Singapore government is obviously trying to make every school equal 152 00:07:17,850 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: in that sense. They say that every school is a 153 00:07:19,329 --> 00:07:21,339 Speaker 1: good school and you know, changes have been made over 154 00:07:21,350 --> 00:07:24,029 Speaker 1: the years. The most recent one being to provide more 155 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,829 Speaker 1: places on the phase two C taking away from the 156 00:07:26,839 --> 00:07:28,809 Speaker 1: alumni phase, which is phase two A and bring it 157 00:07:28,820 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: into phase two C 158 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: has all this had any kind of impact. Does it 159 00:07:32,769 --> 00:07:35,010 Speaker 1: provide a more equal playing field? We 160 00:07:35,019 --> 00:07:38,660 Speaker 2: need to look a little more carefully at that catch phrase, 161 00:07:38,670 --> 00:07:41,350 Speaker 2: every school, a good school? I think what the then 162 00:07:41,359 --> 00:07:46,049 Speaker 2: minister he meant by it was he intended it to 163 00:07:46,059 --> 00:07:50,269 Speaker 2: be a sort of baseline definition for goodness 164 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:55,410 Speaker 2: as it were. So he mentioned such factors as caring 165 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:59,799 Speaker 2: and competent teachers, building supportive relationships with parents and the 166 00:07:59,809 --> 00:08:05,690 Speaker 2: wider community, providing every student with opportunities regardless of family circumstances. 167 00:08:05,970 --> 00:08:09,540 Speaker 2: So I don't think the catchphrase was ever meant to 168 00:08:09,549 --> 00:08:13,489 Speaker 2: imply that every school would be identical or that every 169 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:17,709 Speaker 2: school would be equally good or equally outstanding or even 170 00:08:17,790 --> 00:08:19,829 Speaker 2: equally popular for that matter. 171 00:08:20,630 --> 00:08:23,049 Speaker 1: Obviously, parents look at it differently because when you think 172 00:08:23,059 --> 00:08:24,690 Speaker 1: of every school as a good school, you're looking at 173 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:28,359 Speaker 1: the the academics, the facilities, the resources that the school has, 174 00:08:28,369 --> 00:08:30,739 Speaker 1: you want all schools to kind of be equal. And 175 00:08:30,750 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: of course, if you can, you want your kids to 176 00:08:32,450 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: go to the better resource, better grades, you know, kind 177 00:08:36,010 --> 00:08:36,700 Speaker 1: of school, right? 178 00:08:36,940 --> 00:08:40,700 Speaker 2: So here's where I think we need to talk about 179 00:08:40,710 --> 00:08:45,359 Speaker 2: informed decision making. It's important. I think that parents when 180 00:08:45,369 --> 00:08:48,659 Speaker 2: making this very crucial decision for their Children, 181 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:52,598 Speaker 2: take that time to find out more about the various 182 00:08:52,609 --> 00:08:55,510 Speaker 2: schools that they are considering by that, I mean, not 183 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 2: only the age of the school or the heritage or 184 00:08:58,450 --> 00:08:58,919 Speaker 2: the 185 00:08:59,190 --> 00:09:04,119 Speaker 2: primary school leaving exam results, but also other environmental factors. 186 00:09:04,130 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: Like for example, what kind of child do I have 187 00:09:08,650 --> 00:09:10,780 Speaker 2: on my hands? I think it's fair to say that 188 00:09:10,789 --> 00:09:15,299 Speaker 2: some Children quite naturally thrive in certain kinds of environments 189 00:09:15,309 --> 00:09:19,359 Speaker 2: and not in others. It's important. Therefore, for parents to 190 00:09:19,369 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: really combine their 191 00:09:21,669 --> 00:09:25,069 Speaker 2: knowledge of their own child, on the one hand, with 192 00:09:25,099 --> 00:09:29,340 Speaker 2: their research and their informed understanding of the various school 193 00:09:29,349 --> 00:09:30,590 Speaker 2: options on the other. 194 00:09:30,739 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: So in a way, you're saying different schools have different characteristics, 195 00:09:34,770 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: different talents, so to speak, some schools may be are 196 00:09:37,330 --> 00:09:41,530 Speaker 1: more sports inclined, some are more arts inclined and to 197 00:09:41,539 --> 00:09:43,539 Speaker 1: find a good fit for your child. 198 00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:48,270 Speaker 1: But and do you feel that the current system is fair? Well, 199 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,049 Speaker 1: I suppose like what was mentioned, every school is a good, good. 200 00:09:52,059 --> 00:09:55,770 Speaker 1: It's a very general term. What is good to me 201 00:09:56,030 --> 00:09:59,429 Speaker 1: may not be your understanding of good. But in this case, 202 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: in Singapore, everyone will agree that brand schools are 203 00:10:02,335 --> 00:10:06,114 Speaker 1: good in that respect, but it is good in perhaps 204 00:10:06,125 --> 00:10:09,965 Speaker 1: in an academic way. But there are other schools which 205 00:10:09,974 --> 00:10:15,145 Speaker 1: I have seen, which have wonderful teachers and that is 206 00:10:15,155 --> 00:10:18,184 Speaker 1: also a factor of a good school. And I do 207 00:10:18,195 --> 00:10:20,664 Speaker 1: agree that we really need to know 208 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,689 Speaker 1: our own Children. And to see whether perhaps sometimes the 209 00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:29,969 Speaker 1: branded schools way of education may not be suitable for 210 00:10:29,979 --> 00:10:32,890 Speaker 1: your child or for my child. You may have people 211 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:35,039 Speaker 1: say it's easy for her to say because she got 212 00:10:35,049 --> 00:10:38,089 Speaker 1: her daughter into a branded school. But I don't know 213 00:10:38,099 --> 00:10:40,609 Speaker 1: how she's going to be. And I've also heard of 214 00:10:40,619 --> 00:10:43,229 Speaker 1: friends who after a couple of 215 00:10:43,325 --> 00:10:47,005 Speaker 1: years in the school decided to change the school for 216 00:10:47,015 --> 00:10:49,784 Speaker 1: their child because they just find that the child may 217 00:10:49,794 --> 00:10:52,473 Speaker 1: not be coping so well. But you feel the system 218 00:10:52,484 --> 00:10:55,215 Speaker 1: is fair in the sense of the way it works. Now, 219 00:10:55,224 --> 00:10:59,434 Speaker 1: everyone has the opportunity to try. What is fair to 220 00:10:59,445 --> 00:11:01,554 Speaker 1: me may not be fair to you. I mean, with, 221 00:11:01,565 --> 00:11:05,395 Speaker 1: let's say the one kilometer part of it, 222 00:11:05,849 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: I've also known friends who stayed just next door to 223 00:11:09,849 --> 00:11:14,179 Speaker 1: a school and they are like 520 m from the 224 00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:17,419 Speaker 1: school and they can't get into that school because it's 225 00:11:17,429 --> 00:11:20,949 Speaker 1: so popular. So is that fair to them? It may 226 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,799 Speaker 1: not be as well? Hm. What do you think? Let 227 00:11:24,809 --> 00:11:26,900 Speaker 1: me talk about the part where you said what he 228 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 1: said since I built the website as g schooling, 229 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,599 Speaker 1: I also research into that topic. And what I found 230 00:11:32,609 --> 00:11:34,989 Speaker 1: was that he actually tries to elaborate further and what 231 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,489 Speaker 1: he meant was that every school is a good school 232 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: in its own way, actually added that part that brings 233 00:11:40,289 --> 00:11:42,598 Speaker 1: us to that. Not every school is the same. He 234 00:11:42,609 --> 00:11:46,390 Speaker 1: just hopes to have every school be, be unique and 235 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,979 Speaker 1: good for good for different reasons each school. But do 236 00:11:49,989 --> 00:11:53,049 Speaker 1: you feel that the current P One registration system is 237 00:11:53,059 --> 00:11:55,289 Speaker 1: fair in the way it is run so that every 238 00:11:55,299 --> 00:11:58,569 Speaker 1: parent has an equal opportunity, the whole 239 00:11:58,809 --> 00:12:02,179 Speaker 1: P One registration system or that game rules that they 240 00:12:02,190 --> 00:12:04,830 Speaker 1: come up with? I think it's getting better. So I 241 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,239 Speaker 1: would say it's good, getting better. Yeah. Ok. I can't 242 00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: come up with a better game. That's why I guess 243 00:12:12,609 --> 00:12:15,829 Speaker 1: to be fair. Ok. But Juda maybe you can give 244 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,909 Speaker 1: us a bit of history because your website SG schooling, 245 00:12:17,919 --> 00:12:21,608 Speaker 1: you've been tracking every school's balancing history since 2019, right? 246 00:12:21,869 --> 00:12:24,109 Speaker 1: So how have you seen the P one registration data 247 00:12:24,119 --> 00:12:27,140 Speaker 1: change these last few years? Has the profile of schools change? 248 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,130 Speaker 1: One of the biggest change, right? You didn't mention it 249 00:12:30,140 --> 00:12:34,450 Speaker 1: enough is the Moe Kindergarten? Ok. Yeah. So Moe Kindergarten 250 00:12:34,460 --> 00:12:37,830 Speaker 1: since I think 2018, they can register in phase two 251 00:12:38,330 --> 00:12:41,380 Speaker 1: and that has actually a huge impact. So in about 2018, 252 00:12:41,390 --> 00:12:44,890 Speaker 1: there's like 12 Moe Kindergarten, but now they are like 253 00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:47,729 Speaker 1: 40 plus and the goal is going to be 60 254 00:12:47,739 --> 00:12:50,819 Speaker 1: by 2025. These are the kindergartens that are housed in 255 00:12:50,830 --> 00:12:53,250 Speaker 1: the same or next to the primary school, right? The 256 00:12:53,479 --> 00:12:55,929 Speaker 1: same primary school, the same premises. That's right. 257 00:12:56,289 --> 00:12:58,109 Speaker 1: But the the profile of schools that have changed. I mean, 258 00:12:58,119 --> 00:12:59,830 Speaker 1: I had a quick look at this year's P one 259 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,989 Speaker 1: and the oversubscription is still a lot of the brand 260 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,039 Speaker 1: name schools but I noticed quite a lot of neighborhood 261 00:13:04,049 --> 00:13:07,179 Speaker 1: schools too. Yeah, that's because of this. I'm only kindergarten. Yeah, 262 00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:08,789 Speaker 1: the brand name schools, of course, they are going to 263 00:13:08,799 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: be oversubscribed. Yeah. But now this neighborhood schools because of 264 00:13:11,729 --> 00:13:15,228 Speaker 1: this i with kindergarten they are getting oversubscribed like this 265 00:13:15,239 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: year of the blue, this school in Yushu called base 266 00:13:18,929 --> 00:13:19,789 Speaker 1: in phase 28, they are overs 267 00:13:21,210 --> 00:13:24,049 Speaker 1: and that hasn't happened before, happened before. I see. So 268 00:13:24,059 --> 00:13:26,010 Speaker 1: is that good Jason? I mean, because that's sort of 269 00:13:26,020 --> 00:13:29,239 Speaker 1: helping take away some of the burden from other 270 00:13:29,250 --> 00:13:33,750 Speaker 2: schools? Well, I think this topic is so controversial because 271 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,419 Speaker 2: we see lots of different things at play in the 272 00:13:37,429 --> 00:13:40,159 Speaker 2: entire primary one registration exercise 273 00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:43,468 Speaker 2: because if you think about it, a lot of the criteria, 274 00:13:43,479 --> 00:13:45,859 Speaker 2: in fact, most of them have nothing to do with 275 00:13:45,869 --> 00:13:49,130 Speaker 2: the individual child per se. But instead they have everything 276 00:13:49,140 --> 00:13:52,109 Speaker 2: to do with what the parents bring to the table. 277 00:13:52,119 --> 00:13:55,530 Speaker 2: For example, where they live, whether they were once alumni, 278 00:13:55,539 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: whether they are staff members and, and the list goes on. 279 00:13:58,359 --> 00:14:03,209 Speaker 2: So this to me is a kind of anomalous situation 280 00:14:03,219 --> 00:14:03,250 Speaker 2: in 281 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,739 Speaker 2: an education system that claims to work along meritocratic lines. 282 00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:12,739 Speaker 2: It really depends a lot on what the parents, as 283 00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:15,539 Speaker 2: I said can bring to the table. You know, when 284 00:14:15,549 --> 00:14:18,969 Speaker 2: it comes to helping their child secure a place in 285 00:14:18,979 --> 00:14:20,210 Speaker 2: a preferred school. 286 00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:24,729 Speaker 2: So there's always, I think this tussle between what the 287 00:14:24,739 --> 00:14:30,659 Speaker 2: Moe claims are, its macro level goals, for example, encouraging 288 00:14:30,669 --> 00:14:34,869 Speaker 2: greater diversity in the socioeconomic or racial mix in schools 289 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,429 Speaker 2: or improving accessibility to every child in Singapore, regardless of 290 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,669 Speaker 2: where they live or who they are versus individual parents, 291 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:46,849 Speaker 2: preferences and desires and dreams for their Children. 292 00:14:49,770 --> 00:14:52,770 Speaker 2: Hello, my name is Steve and I'm Theresa Tang and 293 00:14:52,780 --> 00:14:56,270 Speaker 2: we are the hosts of CNN correspondent, a podcast that 294 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,260 Speaker 2: takes you to the heart of the work our correspondents 295 00:14:59,270 --> 00:15:03,049 Speaker 2: do across the globe from China's COVID response to the 296 00:15:03,059 --> 00:15:05,969 Speaker 2: Childcare center massacre in Thailand and 297 00:15:06,140 --> 00:15:08,630 Speaker 2: the fall of Najib Razak to the rise of Anwar 298 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,260 Speaker 2: Ibrahim as Malaysia's Prime Minister, we speak to the people 299 00:15:12,270 --> 00:15:15,140 Speaker 2: at the reporting front lines. So if you want to 300 00:15:15,150 --> 00:15:18,679 Speaker 2: know how the biggest global stories unfold, make sure you 301 00:15:18,690 --> 00:15:22,429 Speaker 2: follow or subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts, 302 00:15:25,849 --> 00:15:28,969 Speaker 1: there will always be some who have more and some 303 00:15:28,979 --> 00:15:32,940 Speaker 1: who have less, some who have better access to more resources. 304 00:15:32,950 --> 00:15:34,609 Speaker 1: Could we just get rid of all of it? Would 305 00:15:34,619 --> 00:15:34,729 Speaker 1: that 306 00:15:34,739 --> 00:15:38,900 Speaker 2: work? A rather alarming thought just crossed my mind. If 307 00:15:38,909 --> 00:15:43,059 Speaker 2: you want it to be totally fair and remove all 308 00:15:43,070 --> 00:15:47,460 Speaker 2: traces of parental influence or privilege, then what you might 309 00:15:47,469 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: do instead would be to have 310 00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:54,460 Speaker 2: a computerized random lottery where each child is assigned a 311 00:15:54,469 --> 00:15:57,849 Speaker 2: number and then is assigned to school, most of us, 312 00:15:57,859 --> 00:16:02,070 Speaker 2: I guess would be completely horrified by that idea because 313 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,109 Speaker 2: then my child would have to travel maybe 10 kilometers. 314 00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:09,059 Speaker 2: That in turn raises another issue which is that this 315 00:16:09,070 --> 00:16:12,849 Speaker 2: whole primary one registration exercise stands out in 316 00:16:13,190 --> 00:16:17,780 Speaker 2: quite a distinctive manner from say the secondary school or 317 00:16:17,789 --> 00:16:23,559 Speaker 2: the pre university or the polytechnic or the uni admission exercises. 318 00:16:23,570 --> 00:16:27,429 Speaker 2: Because you can already see there's this emphasis on distance. 319 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,140 Speaker 2: There's this emphasis also on what parents can do, 320 00:16:31,239 --> 00:16:34,260 Speaker 2: help their Children. There's also the issue of whether you 321 00:16:34,270 --> 00:16:37,340 Speaker 2: have siblings studying in that same school. And you can 322 00:16:37,349 --> 00:16:39,739 Speaker 2: see that many of these factors aren't present at all 323 00:16:39,750 --> 00:16:43,330 Speaker 2: in the other admission exercises. So there's something special about, 324 00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:45,349 Speaker 2: I guess the age of the Children makes 325 00:16:45,359 --> 00:16:47,299 Speaker 1: sense because the kids are older and they can take 326 00:16:47,309 --> 00:16:49,690 Speaker 1: the M RT, they can travel on their own. The 327 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: whole idea of having siblings sending two kids to school 328 00:16:51,890 --> 00:16:53,989 Speaker 1: at 6 a.m. in the morning is easier if they 329 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,190 Speaker 1: at the same school, you know, 330 00:16:55,489 --> 00:16:58,530 Speaker 1: and the proximity does make a difference. But Juda, how 331 00:16:58,539 --> 00:17:00,489 Speaker 1: would you feel if they told you that parent volunteer 332 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:02,590 Speaker 1: doesn't count? What would you have done? Because that was 333 00:17:02,599 --> 00:17:05,010 Speaker 1: how you got your kid into school, right. That would 334 00:17:05,020 --> 00:17:07,619 Speaker 1: make sense because I, so I make contribution and it 335 00:17:07,630 --> 00:17:11,390 Speaker 1: doesn't count versus parents who are former students who doesn't 336 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,020 Speaker 1: even do anything and just by heritage, they are eligible 337 00:17:15,030 --> 00:17:15,319 Speaker 1: in 338 00:17:15,708 --> 00:17:18,808 Speaker 1: 28 which is even earlier than parent, volunteer parents doing 339 00:17:18,818 --> 00:17:21,909 Speaker 1: contribution for the school I think has its value. We 340 00:17:21,917 --> 00:17:23,677 Speaker 1: are getting to know the primary school, we are helping 341 00:17:23,688 --> 00:17:26,009 Speaker 1: the primary school. So you make some sense. You are 342 00:17:26,019 --> 00:17:28,239 Speaker 1: getting to know the school, you are helping out the school. 343 00:17:28,249 --> 00:17:30,468 Speaker 1: There should be some so called reward. Otherwise it's like 344 00:17:30,479 --> 00:17:31,379 Speaker 1: being brought into the royal. 345 00:17:31,819 --> 00:17:34,060 Speaker 1: You get all the privileges just because you were born 346 00:17:34,069 --> 00:17:36,889 Speaker 1: into the royal family. Ok. What about the environment? We 347 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: mean if I can ask you, were there any concerns 348 00:17:38,569 --> 00:17:40,629 Speaker 1: about the type of Children that might be going to 349 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,889 Speaker 1: the school, the socioeconomic status of other families? Basically, you 350 00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:46,530 Speaker 1: want your kids to mix around with kids that are 351 00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:51,669 Speaker 1: more like your family. Perhaps we never really thought about that. 352 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,699 Speaker 1: And yes, there will be Children who may be similar 353 00:17:55,709 --> 00:17:57,739 Speaker 1: to my child. But then again, 354 00:17:57,969 --> 00:18:02,208 Speaker 1: we also hope that our child can learn a certain 355 00:18:02,219 --> 00:18:08,420 Speaker 1: values like empathy learning that it's not your socioeconomic status 356 00:18:08,430 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: that makes you who you are. And in fact, if 357 00:18:12,890 --> 00:18:16,579 Speaker 1: my daughter goes to the school that she's going to, 358 00:18:16,589 --> 00:18:20,688 Speaker 1: maybe she might be even the so called lower social 359 00:18:20,699 --> 00:18:24,550 Speaker 1: economic status there. But I think it's good learning for 360 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,069 Speaker 1: her as well because 361 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,819 Speaker 1: as a parent, I would love her to know that 362 00:18:28,829 --> 00:18:31,458 Speaker 1: that's not who you are as a person, but we 363 00:18:31,469 --> 00:18:34,619 Speaker 1: can't help but know that in certain schools, the socioeconomic 364 00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:37,849 Speaker 1: status is significantly higher So even though your kid may 365 00:18:37,859 --> 00:18:40,599 Speaker 1: be in that your sense, lower in that school is 366 00:18:40,609 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: still pretty high on the average. Should we have more mixing? 367 00:18:45,209 --> 00:18:46,810 Speaker 1: You know, Jason, do you think we should allow for 368 00:18:46,819 --> 00:18:49,250 Speaker 1: even more kids to come in at phase two? C 369 00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:52,449 Speaker 1: you know, not from proximity, not from alumni, just from anywhere, 370 00:18:52,459 --> 00:18:55,030 Speaker 1: so to speak, because this whole idea of mix ability, 371 00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:58,619 Speaker 1: the whole idea of having kids mixed with different kids. 372 00:18:58,819 --> 00:19:00,339 Speaker 1: We know there is an upside to that. 373 00:19:00,510 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: This is a longstanding debate. In other words, the idea 374 00:19:04,290 --> 00:19:06,329 Speaker 2: that schools ought to be 375 00:19:06,910 --> 00:19:12,979 Speaker 2: common spaces where Singapore Children from diverse backgrounds can meet 376 00:19:12,989 --> 00:19:17,310 Speaker 2: one another and interact. This of course, tells us how 377 00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:22,229 Speaker 2: schools are viewed as key agents of socialization to prepare 378 00:19:22,239 --> 00:19:25,500 Speaker 2: them for adulthood. I guess I might ask a related question. 379 00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: How far 380 00:19:27,839 --> 00:19:31,770 Speaker 2: can we push the point? In other words, how diverse 381 00:19:31,780 --> 00:19:36,270 Speaker 2: do schools need to be? Does every school in Singapore 382 00:19:36,369 --> 00:19:40,310 Speaker 2: need to have more or less an identical sort of 383 00:19:40,319 --> 00:19:44,290 Speaker 2: mix along racial lines along socioeconomic lines and so on 384 00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:46,530 Speaker 2: before we reach the point where we can say 385 00:19:46,869 --> 00:19:50,869 Speaker 2: quite confidently, oh, yes, we are happy with the degree 386 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 2: of social diversity in all of our schools. So 387 00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: it's almost like an H DB block where you restrict 388 00:19:56,810 --> 00:19:59,979 Speaker 1: the quota on each. Then you, you force that mixing 389 00:19:59,989 --> 00:20:02,239 Speaker 2: right? And you can see in the various 390 00:20:02,444 --> 00:20:06,294 Speaker 2: assignments to the primary one registration system that the Ministry 391 00:20:06,305 --> 00:20:10,155 Speaker 2: of education has been attempting to move in the direction 392 00:20:10,165 --> 00:20:12,415 Speaker 2: of greater diversity. 393 00:20:12,425 --> 00:20:16,234 Speaker 1: You're basically creating more rules, I guess to, to force 394 00:20:16,244 --> 00:20:17,954 Speaker 1: the mixing to a certain extent, 395 00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:23,589 Speaker 2: we also have to remember that the schools are trying 396 00:20:23,599 --> 00:20:29,369 Speaker 2: to fulfill so many different sorts of objectives. For example, 397 00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:32,849 Speaker 2: if I continue along that point about diversity, 398 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,050 Speaker 2: the Ministry of Education at the same time has been 399 00:20:36,209 --> 00:20:41,949 Speaker 2: trying to prioritize the needs of Singapore citizens over those 400 00:20:41,959 --> 00:20:45,579 Speaker 2: of permanent residents and international students. So of course, you 401 00:20:45,589 --> 00:20:48,969 Speaker 2: could very well argue that there's a case for having 402 00:20:48,979 --> 00:20:53,050 Speaker 2: that broader international mix in our schools if you think 403 00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:53,149 Speaker 2: of 404 00:20:53,234 --> 00:20:57,214 Speaker 2: diversity beyond the shores of Singapore. But then what we 405 00:20:57,224 --> 00:21:02,774 Speaker 2: have here is this attempt to reconcile quite a few 406 00:21:02,785 --> 00:21:07,765 Speaker 2: different objectives and it's not always easy to do so 407 00:21:07,775 --> 00:21:10,005 Speaker 2: in a very neat and satisfactory 408 00:21:10,015 --> 00:21:13,084 Speaker 1: manner. And we like neat and satisfactory here in Singapore, 409 00:21:13,915 --> 00:21:15,704 Speaker 1: we got to wrap things up. Maybe I just go 410 00:21:15,714 --> 00:21:17,375 Speaker 1: around and each of you if you could share, if 411 00:21:17,385 --> 00:21:19,864 Speaker 1: there was something you feel that we could do to 412 00:21:19,875 --> 00:21:22,584 Speaker 1: better improve the current pr registration system. 413 00:21:22,829 --> 00:21:26,409 Speaker 1: Is there anything you would change as parents who have 414 00:21:26,420 --> 00:21:28,780 Speaker 1: all been there? I know the stresses. There's no way 415 00:21:28,790 --> 00:21:31,180 Speaker 1: to just get rid of that. And, and to be honest, 416 00:21:31,189 --> 00:21:32,589 Speaker 1: I don't have the answer. I mean, I dealt with 417 00:21:32,599 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: this several years ago, but maybe you start, is there 418 00:21:34,930 --> 00:21:37,930 Speaker 1: something that you feel could make it a bit less stressful. 419 00:21:38,380 --> 00:21:42,839 Speaker 1: I definitely hope that it would be less stressful. I mean, I, 420 00:21:42,849 --> 00:21:45,260 Speaker 1: I don't want to go back to the days where 421 00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:47,899 Speaker 1: every day I go click into the Moe website to 422 00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: see what are the numbers, you know? 423 00:21:49,939 --> 00:21:54,469 Speaker 1: But really I can't think of another way to say 424 00:21:54,479 --> 00:21:58,949 Speaker 1: that it could be fair for everyone or best for everyone. 425 00:21:58,959 --> 00:22:00,660 Speaker 1: I wish I had the answer. But if I had 426 00:22:00,670 --> 00:22:05,420 Speaker 1: the answer I was probably probably 427 00:22:07,239 --> 00:22:10,030 Speaker 1: what about you? Same. I also don't have answer. We 428 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: can't come up with a better game. It's a very 429 00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:14,948 Speaker 1: difficult game design. What I wish for is that we 430 00:22:14,959 --> 00:22:18,469 Speaker 1: have more information about the schools. That's also one of 431 00:22:18,479 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: the reason why I came up with the website because 432 00:22:20,209 --> 00:22:22,569 Speaker 1: the ballot history, they are not provided by Moe seems 433 00:22:22,579 --> 00:22:23,839 Speaker 1: like they don't want to let us know 434 00:22:24,540 --> 00:22:26,929 Speaker 1: there's a lot of information about schools that is still 435 00:22:26,939 --> 00:22:30,270 Speaker 1: very hard to, to get like removed about academics, right 436 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: in the P SI E score. And that's something that 437 00:22:32,489 --> 00:22:34,630 Speaker 1: I wish to have actually, why not let us know 438 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,089 Speaker 1: which schools is doing better academically? 439 00:22:37,349 --> 00:22:39,239 Speaker 1: You want to say you are good in different ways, 440 00:22:39,250 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: but let us know which one are good academically and 441 00:22:41,569 --> 00:22:43,630 Speaker 1: which one are good in other ways or list them 442 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,510 Speaker 1: up so that we know then its information for us 443 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,239 Speaker 1: to make better decision. Although some may argue otherwise that 444 00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:53,419 Speaker 1: the more information you provide, the more stress you create 445 00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:56,849 Speaker 1: because now I know which school was better in, you know, 446 00:22:56,859 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: right down to the percentage which may not be helpful either. 447 00:23:01,810 --> 00:23:06,579 Speaker 2: Jason, I think I'll return to how the terms good 448 00:23:06,589 --> 00:23:10,420 Speaker 2: and fair are not as straightforward as they appear. At 449 00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:12,969 Speaker 2: first glance. In other words, they mean different things to 450 00:23:12,979 --> 00:23:19,139 Speaker 2: different people. What's fair to each individual parent might not 451 00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:22,540 Speaker 2: exactly coincide with what the Ministry of Education on its 452 00:23:22,550 --> 00:23:26,438 Speaker 2: part considers to be fair in the interests of the 453 00:23:26,449 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 2: broader social good. That's one thing that is tough to 454 00:23:30,849 --> 00:23:36,718 Speaker 2: then another thing is the adequacy of information for decision making. 455 00:23:36,729 --> 00:23:40,089 Speaker 2: I made the point earlier about informed decision making. So 456 00:23:40,099 --> 00:23:43,510 Speaker 2: that's quite an interesting take on the issue. If some 457 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: parents feel that they lack adequate information to be able 458 00:23:47,770 --> 00:23:51,420 Speaker 2: to make an informed decision, then what does that mean 459 00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:55,130 Speaker 2: for their choices when it comes to selecting a primary 460 00:23:55,140 --> 00:23:56,479 Speaker 2: school for their Children? 461 00:23:57,339 --> 00:24:00,150 Speaker 1: Branding is one of those things where some brands are 462 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,149 Speaker 1: more recognized than others. And sometimes it's got to do 463 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,369 Speaker 1: with your pr your marketing and the same thing for schools, 464 00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:08,459 Speaker 1: some branded schools are better known than others when actually academically, 465 00:24:08,469 --> 00:24:10,829 Speaker 1: some of these branded name schools are not as strong 466 00:24:10,839 --> 00:24:13,099 Speaker 1: as some of these other neighborhood schools. And in fact, 467 00:24:13,109 --> 00:24:15,790 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's finding what fits for your child. 468 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: That is the main thing. And my son, we actually 469 00:24:17,449 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: moved in after primary two, I think from a school 470 00:24:20,689 --> 00:24:23,589 Speaker 1: that was very strong academically because I thought it was 471 00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:25,449 Speaker 1: too strong academically and, 472 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,530 Speaker 1: uh, that, that focus was just draining a bit of 473 00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:30,449 Speaker 1: the lifeblood out of him, you know, because they had 474 00:24:30,459 --> 00:24:33,540 Speaker 1: such clear focus on the academics. So it's finding what 475 00:24:33,550 --> 00:24:34,909 Speaker 1: works for your kids. And I think that is the 476 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,979 Speaker 1: most important because at the end of the day, the 477 00:24:36,989 --> 00:24:39,599 Speaker 1: kids are actually very resilient. They will make friends in 478 00:24:39,609 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: whatever environment they are in wherever they may be, whichever 479 00:24:43,050 --> 00:24:45,079 Speaker 1: school they might be. So I think we need to 480 00:24:45,089 --> 00:24:48,619 Speaker 1: trust as parents that our kids will survive after all, 481 00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:50,550 Speaker 1: regardless of what school they are in. 482 00:24:50,930 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: But it's hard to let go because we all want 483 00:24:52,810 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: the best for our Children. So I guess this primary 484 00:24:54,770 --> 00:24:56,929 Speaker 1: school story, it is one that is not going to 485 00:24:56,939 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: end any time soon. We might just revisit this podcast 486 00:25:00,689 --> 00:25:02,899 Speaker 1: every year every maybe two years just to give Jason 487 00:25:02,910 --> 00:25:03,699 Speaker 1: a break in between. 488 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: If you have views on what you've heard, please feel 489 00:25:06,449 --> 00:25:08,579 Speaker 1: free to write into us, pop us a review as 490 00:25:08,589 --> 00:25:10,829 Speaker 1: well and maybe give us a five star rating on 491 00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:14,619 Speaker 1: Spotify or Apple podcast. Thanks to the CN A podcast team, 492 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Chan, Joan Chan Tiffany, Angy and Christina Robert and 493 00:25:18,569 --> 00:25:22,699 Speaker 1: I'm Steven signing off saying keep talking, keep connecting. Bye 494 00:25:22,709 --> 00:25:23,170 Speaker 1: for now.