WEBVTT - Are Beauty Standards More Attainable for Men Than Women? 0:00:00.060 --> 0:00:02.940 Hey, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Men Explain, 0:00:02.940 --> 0:00:05.430 Thank you so much for the love and support so far. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.150 Today we have Ben King. 0:00:15.270 --> 0:00:18.120 Hey, my name is Benjamin Kheng. I sing songs and 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.060 I have never, ever photoshop my butt on social media. 0:00:21.180 --> 0:00:25.590 Yes, you have. And today's episode is about beauty standards 0:00:26.700 --> 0:00:28.710 now for for the longest time, I feel, you know, 0:00:28.710 --> 0:00:30.570 us women, we have a lot of insecurities. We talk 0:00:30.570 --> 0:00:33.180 about our looks, you know how it affects our confidence 0:00:33.180 --> 0:00:36.330 and all that. Do men also experience this? We're going 0:00:36.330 --> 0:00:38.550 to find out. And Ben is probably one of the 0:00:38.550 --> 0:00:40.440 best people to fill me in about this. 0:00:40.470 --> 0:00:43.449 That's right. I'm deeply insecure and I have a crippling depression. 0:00:43.740 --> 0:00:46.320 But since we're talking about beauty standards, I've been very 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.680 happy that it's Corvette season or it was know heavy 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.320 Corvette season, so I could have a beauty sleep, quote 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.200 unquote let myself go a little bit. Yeah, I'm getting 0:00:55.620 --> 0:00:57.310 a lot of beauty sleep. Yeah, yeah. 0:00:57.390 --> 0:00:59.280 So what's your your your regime now? 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:01.140 The regime is turning 30. 0:01:01.590 --> 0:01:03.209 I see. And what happens then? 0:01:03.390 --> 0:01:07.770 Quarter life crisis, depression and a lot more. 0:01:07.770 --> 0:01:11.220 And suddenly breakouts again, like you would think something 0:01:11.250 --> 0:01:11.910 could be done. 0:01:11.970 --> 0:01:14.520 I literally see nothing on your face. What do you mean, breakouts? 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:20.130 Well, you use concealer. You go to the face. No, no, no, no, no. 0:01:20.130 --> 0:01:22.319 It's all good. It's all good. It's in the hoods. 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:24.710 Speaking of which, I was married, 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.870 you know, it's like a disease pimple 0:01:29.459 --> 0:01:31.199 now since you guys have been so far. I mean, 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:33.330 we haven't exactly caught up on a public platform 0:01:33.330 --> 0:01:35.490 about that yet. Yeah, I know we should, because those 0:01:35.490 --> 0:01:35.580 are 0:01:35.730 --> 0:01:36.779 the legitimate catch ups. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:38.490 It's been. 0:01:38.490 --> 0:01:40.979 It's been good. I want to thank you for helping 0:01:40.980 --> 0:01:43.170 me with that proposal that one time. 0:01:43.260 --> 0:01:45.060 All right. Yes. Yes. 0:01:45.180 --> 0:01:48.720 She helped me set up a very nervous dinner date 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.960 with the parents. Yes, I had to ask for. And 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.390 that was the more nervous thing really asking for the 0:01:54.390 --> 0:01:55.160 hand in marriage. 0:01:55.170 --> 0:01:59.640 I was literally like asking my staff over there like, Hey, 0:01:59.700 --> 0:02:02.460 how's it going? What's going on? No tears. Yeah, nobody 0:02:02.460 --> 0:02:04.650 said anything to like, Oh, I didn't. I was. I 0:02:04.650 --> 0:02:05.960 didn't want to, you know, but Jell-O? 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:07.470 Yeah, good. 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:09.739 Yeah, that showed up. And he laughed at me. Yeah, 0:02:09.930 --> 0:02:10.950 it was like, You're very nervous. 0:02:11.850 --> 0:02:12.360 Yeah, you 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.330 think top 10 most nerve wracking things. Top three, to 0:02:15.330 --> 0:02:15.799 be honest. 0:02:15.810 --> 0:02:18.210 And then you had a little intimate wedding as well 0:02:18.210 --> 0:02:19.310 quite recently. Yes. 0:02:19.470 --> 0:02:20.130 Was that? 0:02:20.340 --> 0:02:23.850 It was intimate and wedding. Yes, it was very COVID safe. 0:02:24.090 --> 0:02:26.910 In fact, we had to do the whole, yeah, safe 0:02:26.910 --> 0:02:29.250 distancing and all that. So that's good. And then we're like, OK, 0:02:29.250 --> 0:02:31.260 we're going to do a small one. And then when 0:02:31.260 --> 0:02:32.910 you know, things open up, we'll do a big one. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:34.620 And then as the months went by, were like, 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:35.160 Let's 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:36.200 just stick to that. 0:02:36.870 --> 0:02:40.680 Yeah, but we should. We should know what we see. 0:02:40.860 --> 0:02:42.950 OK, well, thank you so much for joining us here today, 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.030 because when it comes to beauty standards is something that 0:02:45.030 --> 0:02:47.880 I feel maybe we will feel more of it in 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:49.470 the media industry. I don't know if you agree with 0:02:49.470 --> 0:02:52.620 me on that when it comes to, oh yeah. 0:02:52.650 --> 0:02:55.170 You know, I think as much as you try to 0:02:55.169 --> 0:02:58.380 talk around it and try to talk about your worth 0:02:58.380 --> 0:03:03.239 and everything, I mean, the most identifiable metric for us 0:03:03.660 --> 0:03:06.240 is is how you look right, even if it's not 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.670 something about how you look. That's what people talk about 0:03:08.669 --> 0:03:11.310 a lot. When they when they, you know, have the 0:03:11.310 --> 0:03:14.490 names of media personalities on the lips, it's it's unavoidable. 0:03:14.610 --> 0:03:16.740 It's kind of awful. And so even if you didn't 0:03:16.740 --> 0:03:20.790 start out prioritizing it, you you do think about it eventually. 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.690 And obviously, when it comes to clients or agencies, they 0:03:24.690 --> 0:03:27.680 can't help but also scroll through your social media platforms. 0:03:27.750 --> 0:03:31.110 And it is a whole new conversation where like, oh, 0:03:31.110 --> 0:03:33.150 he or she looks like this, or maybe suitable for 0:03:33.150 --> 0:03:34.020 our brands? Yeah. 0:03:34.110 --> 0:03:34.560 You think? 0:03:34.770 --> 0:03:37.630 No, absolutely. I think it's it's obviously different in in 0:03:37.710 --> 0:03:40.820 the acting world as opposed to, let's say, the um, 0:03:41.190 --> 0:03:44.190 you know, social media world because acting, obviously, if you 0:03:44.190 --> 0:03:46.380 don't get the gig, sometimes you tell yourself, I'm just 0:03:46.380 --> 0:03:48.360 not right for the part, they were looking for someone 0:03:48.510 --> 0:03:50.520 a bit different and and then you can make a 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.550 career out of looking a certain way. But I also 0:03:53.550 --> 0:03:56.790 do think the social media bubble has has changed dramatically. Like, 0:03:57.180 --> 0:03:59.640 maybe at the start you had to really adhere to 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.780 like this vision of how you should look. Whereas now 0:04:04.110 --> 0:04:07.560 like I think as long as you develop a persona 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.380 or not as a persona, but like a certain style 0:04:10.380 --> 0:04:14.220 of looking and you put serious effort and thought into it, 0:04:14.220 --> 0:04:16.500 I think you can be rewarded for that as well. 0:04:16.529 --> 0:04:20.070 So the beauty and for that are a little bit different. 0:04:20.070 --> 0:04:23.679 But in general, I would say social media does share too, 0:04:23.850 --> 0:04:26.400 you know, very, very common beauty standards. In fact, it 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:27.299 enhances it, right? 0:04:27.430 --> 0:04:29.130 Yeah. So so do you do you ever at one 0:04:29.130 --> 0:04:31.880 point feel very conscious, like when it came to, you know, 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:33.839 taking your photos and your videos, you're like, Oh, how 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.990 do I look like, you know, especially, I guess, during 0:04:36.990 --> 0:04:39.330 the birth of, like Instagram, for example. Yeah, because I 0:04:39.330 --> 0:04:41.839 see your TikTok stuff and nonsense. 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:43.320 I love it. I love it. I love all old 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:43.710 enough to be 0:04:43.710 --> 0:04:44.580 around the 0:04:44.580 --> 0:04:47.190 birth of Instagram. So I could say, I mean, I 0:04:47.190 --> 0:04:50.250 have no idea I was already in existence when I 0:04:50.250 --> 0:04:50.610 enjoy it. 0:04:50.790 --> 0:04:53.849 Yeah, well, I was around for the birth of Facebook. 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:54.840 That was a different time. 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:56.669 I wasn't. I have no idea. I was. 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:58.500 Yeah, it was quite a scary time. 0:04:58.710 --> 0:05:01.799 But yeah. I don't know, I think we were all 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:03.289 just trying to figure it out. Yeah, yeah. 0:05:03.630 --> 0:05:06.539 I'm suddenly the currency of of who you are online 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.140 changed dramatically over a year and suddenly or how I 0:05:10.140 --> 0:05:13.529 am perceived online is everything. In fact, it is a 0:05:13.529 --> 0:05:16.229 barometer that that gets you work if you are in 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.169 this line of line of work, obviously. So you do 0:05:19.170 --> 0:05:21.240 end up paying a lot of attention to it. I 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.609 definitely change a lot with all my peers and I 0:05:23.610 --> 0:05:26.669 recognize that change. Before, I would only smaller set than 0:05:26.670 --> 0:05:28.680 we would cover, and now I have to think of 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:29.370 different ways to 0:05:29.370 --> 0:05:32.560 pose and I like. Oh yes, yeah, I see all 0:05:32.589 --> 0:05:33.719 that stuff for you. 0:05:33.930 --> 0:05:35.520 Yeah. Top and middle and 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:36.460 yes, everything. 0:05:36.930 --> 0:05:40.110 Everything. Yeah. So definitely, I mean, did you do you 0:05:40.110 --> 0:05:40.640 feel the same way? 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.320 Definitely became more conscious, I think. I can remember what 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:47.250 my first ever post was on Israel did something terrible. 0:05:47.370 --> 0:05:47.850 You bring it 0:05:47.850 --> 0:05:52.410 up right now. Are you producers? Oh gosh. Scrolling. OK, wait, 0:05:52.410 --> 0:05:52.739 you're going to 0:05:52.740 --> 0:05:53.580 bring this up to you. 0:05:53.610 --> 0:05:57.659 Bring my play some hipster bullshit, maybe some clout. Picture 0:05:57.660 --> 0:05:58.919 with the caption 0:05:59.220 --> 0:06:00.610 with a with a quote or something. 0:06:00.630 --> 0:06:05.930 Yeah, I like like wanderlust. So love, love, love, love, love, hate. 0:06:06.300 --> 0:06:09.000 I was a Tumblr kid. OK, OK. On Tumblr, you 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.260 could be accepted for whatever Pashman you were. Yes. Yes, 0:06:12.270 --> 0:06:13.460 I do understand the trees 0:06:13.470 --> 0:06:14.430 you had in the background as 0:06:14.430 --> 0:06:18.450 well. Speaking from experience. Yeah, sure. Yeah, for me, it 0:06:18.450 --> 0:06:21.120 definitely changed. I think there was a pressure to also 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:25.200 get better pictures, you know, or do my makeup better or, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.239 you know, because last time I just wouldn't really care, right? 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.070 I would just show up to the studio. And you know, 0:06:29.070 --> 0:06:30.960 there was this term in the past where they said, 0:06:31.290 --> 0:06:35.550 You look like you're suitable for video, you know, I mean, 0:06:35.700 --> 0:06:36.409 until Sonia. 0:06:36.779 --> 0:06:39.090 No, no, no, no. Meaningless. Confirmed it. 0:06:40.020 --> 0:06:44.460 Yes, 100 percent. Because obviously in the past there was 0:06:44.460 --> 0:06:47.430 no visual element to radio, right? So nobody really put 0:06:47.430 --> 0:06:50.070 a face to whoever's on Al whose voice you are 0:06:50.070 --> 0:06:52.470 listening to that suddenly things change. You're like, Oh, you 0:06:52.470 --> 0:06:54.000 got to look a certain way or let you got 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:55.859 to make sure you're presentable, even when you go to 0:06:55.860 --> 0:06:57.729 the studio. Because we might be shooting this and that 0:06:57.990 --> 0:06:59.880 in your annual meetings now we must embrace social 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:03.000 media, but that's for you. And then I'll give to YouTube. 0:07:03.029 --> 0:07:05.940 And now I have to be here with bands like No, 0:07:05.980 --> 0:07:06.500 which I 0:07:06.510 --> 0:07:08.790 just want to look into a mic. This loser? 0:07:09.670 --> 0:07:13.020 Yes. Yes, it has changed. But I guess what I 0:07:13.020 --> 0:07:15.210 enjoy about some of the jobs that we do like, 0:07:15.210 --> 0:07:18.390 for example, when we when we flew over to Indonesia 0:07:18.390 --> 0:07:21.030 to do travel, as is VIDEO Right now, we're just like, 0:07:21.030 --> 0:07:23.100 Let it go, be yourself. You know, you don't have 0:07:23.100 --> 0:07:25.510 to worry too much about how perfect you look. 0:07:25.530 --> 0:07:28.350 It's hard to to look good when you are climbing 0:07:28.350 --> 0:07:34.150 a mountain, climbing a mountain. Yeah, yeah. True. And this flashbacks? Yeah. Flashbacks, flashbacks. 0:07:34.710 --> 0:07:37.170 OK. So then I'm throwing it back to you. Do 0:07:37.170 --> 0:07:40.619 you think men or women get judged harsher when it 0:07:40.620 --> 0:07:45.080 comes to looks, especially online? Well, can be straight and honest. 0:07:45.340 --> 0:07:46.400 This is a no filter. 0:07:46.950 --> 0:07:47.310 I know. 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.380 Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, there's judgment on both sides 0:07:49.380 --> 0:07:52.080 and it happens, I think, in different arenas. Yeah, but 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.200 for sure, for sure. Women, women get it much worse. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:08:00.720 I think thanks to the crushing patriarchy and our very 0:08:01.020 --> 0:08:03.989 common misogyny language and the fact that for centuries men 0:08:03.990 --> 0:08:07.590 have been favourite and been been been seen as world leaders, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:11.430 you know, policymakers and they've been judged very differently. Rice Bowl, 0:08:11.430 --> 0:08:14.730 all that kind of stuff. So women obviously historically were 0:08:14.730 --> 0:08:16.500 put to the sideline, right? And a lot of a 0:08:16.500 --> 0:08:18.630 lot of arguments as well. That base case women are 0:08:18.630 --> 0:08:22.110 more aesthetically pleasing. And so there's a lot more focus 0:08:22.110 --> 0:08:24.720 on that. So for sure, you guys get judged way 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.760 harsher even today. That's not to say that men who 0:08:27.780 --> 0:08:30.090 get judged, but you can definitely feel the difference. 0:08:30.150 --> 0:08:33.600 A hundred percent. I mean, it's just a confession. OK, 0:08:33.630 --> 0:08:39.179 let girls also are guilty of objectifying men. Sometimes I'm 0:08:39.179 --> 0:08:41.040 just going to put it out there, OK, since we're 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.550 having honest conversation as much as obviously it is seen, 0:08:44.550 --> 0:08:47.370 I guess, from the men's side, a little bit more online. 0:08:47.610 --> 0:08:50.280 So these trolls, you know, these guys are like, Oh, 0:08:50.610 --> 0:08:52.890 she's so ugly, how is she actually as a model? 0:08:53.070 --> 0:08:54.839 You know, that kind of stuff that we see sometimes 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.660 in our comments section. But the fact of the matter is, 0:08:57.660 --> 0:09:00.150 I think women, we we take a lot of time 0:09:00.150 --> 0:09:02.950 to get ready before we start the day before we 0:09:02.970 --> 0:09:05.850 like to look presentable and all that and more so 0:09:05.850 --> 0:09:08.489 for us, even because we have to shoot, I don't know, 0:09:08.490 --> 0:09:10.980 film and do other stuff. How long do you take 0:09:10.980 --> 0:09:11.970 to get ready the morning 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.850 I woke up and minutes before, there's no way know 0:09:15.900 --> 0:09:19.439 I had an afternoon nap. OK. OK. Depends. Yeah. Generally 0:09:19.830 --> 0:09:20.459 I have 0:09:20.460 --> 0:09:23.849 very oily skin, as you can tell, in about 10 minutes. 0:09:24.540 --> 0:09:25.020 So. 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.809 So the makeup artist always behind the camera 0:09:28.290 --> 0:09:30.540 to shoot somebody you idiot might affect me, would you? 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.720 OK, so five minutes, 10 minutes, that's all I'm going to. 0:09:33.750 --> 0:09:35.699 Yeah, I was like, Yeah, that's 0:09:35.700 --> 0:09:36.449 enough, OK? 0:09:36.660 --> 0:09:37.830 So so what do you take? 0:09:37.860 --> 0:09:40.050 Well, I was hoping to skip that. 0:09:40.230 --> 0:09:40.740 Exactly. 0:09:41.490 --> 0:09:43.650 Sometimes I think an hour that's OK. 0:09:43.890 --> 0:09:45.030 Really is OK. I mean, 0:09:45.030 --> 0:09:48.720 yeah, but an hour includes a shower and then sitting 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.000 down to put my makeup on while Grey's Anatomy is 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.580 playing in the background. So, so then in that case, 0:09:53.580 --> 0:09:58.020 what is your definition of attractiveness? Oh my gosh, I 0:09:58.020 --> 0:10:00.370 know this is a broad question. You can. Just have 0:10:00.370 --> 0:10:03.520 fun with it. No, no, right or wrong answers, you know, 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:03.910 right or wrong 0:10:03.910 --> 0:10:05.800 answers, is my wife? Yeah. 0:10:05.830 --> 0:10:07.329 Oh, that's the right. 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.690 All right, posterity. Oh, OK. 0:10:11.140 --> 0:10:12.220 Case I'll make it easier for you. 0:10:12.309 --> 0:10:14.020 No, no, no. I have. I have a decent answer, 0:10:14.030 --> 0:10:16.510 but people are going to really shit on me for this. 0:10:16.809 --> 0:10:18.240 I don't have A.. 0:10:18.820 --> 0:10:20.740 OK. No, it is better to say to OK. 0:10:21.010 --> 0:10:22.690 Do you want me to rephrase? Please. OK. 0:10:22.990 --> 0:10:24.250 Yeah. At this point, OK. 0:10:24.850 --> 0:10:26.920 What makes Neomi attractive to you? 0:10:26.950 --> 0:10:28.910 Oh. Personality. Mm hmm. 0:10:29.770 --> 0:10:32.650 He's really digging a hole and digging deeper and deeper. 0:10:33.010 --> 0:10:33.250 Yeah. 0:10:33.309 --> 0:10:34.600 OK. OK. Didn't even need to had. 0:10:34.630 --> 0:10:35.350 If I have to 0:10:35.350 --> 0:10:39.750 look at it from a from a very surface level. Yes. 0:10:39.850 --> 0:10:43.200 Lowest common denominator industry. Or who is good for the job? Yeah. 0:10:43.250 --> 0:10:46.809 Produce a custom director. Typekit I can do that. But 0:10:46.809 --> 0:10:49.390 what is attractive to me as a person, I don't 0:10:49.390 --> 0:10:52.570 think I have one single type or I value attractiveness 0:10:52.570 --> 0:10:54.610 over the other. But I will say, like, like, you know, 0:10:55.150 --> 0:10:58.390 willingness to try and experiment with what works for you 0:10:58.780 --> 0:11:00.940 is attractive to me. I think not being so serious 0:11:00.940 --> 0:11:03.160 with it and having fun because yeah, if you if 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:04.810 you're not so caught up about how you look all 0:11:04.809 --> 0:11:06.400 the time or you want to try something different, I 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.370 think I love to see that kind of creativity. 0:11:09.580 --> 0:11:14.260 Yeah, it's so basically not taking yourself too seriously. You 0:11:14.260 --> 0:11:16.540 more of a character, personality kind of person. 0:11:16.570 --> 0:11:18.630 Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm wearing a sports bra right now. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:19.630 He just goes, OK. 0:11:20.050 --> 0:11:22.330 And so I hadn't heard the shirt is holding up 0:11:22.330 --> 0:11:23.170 so well, that's right. 0:11:23.470 --> 0:11:24.670 But no, I was. 0:11:25.179 --> 0:11:28.420 Interestingly enough, I was reading this article before coming on today, 0:11:28.420 --> 0:11:30.790 and there's a new movie out called Space Jam. 0:11:30.820 --> 0:11:31.240 Yes. 0:11:31.510 --> 0:11:33.970 And and there was an old movie called Space Jam 0:11:33.970 --> 0:11:37.330 two in the 1990s and a very famous character from it. 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:41.229 Lola Bunny. Yes, a fan favorite obviously has a very 0:11:41.230 --> 0:11:43.870 different iteration this time. So Lola 0:11:43.870 --> 0:11:45.010 Bunny starts. Yeah. 0:11:45.340 --> 0:11:47.050 Historically, Lola has been sexualized. 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.510 Yes. You know, she's always very curvaceous. In fact, she 0:11:49.510 --> 0:11:52.059 was rocking the the crop top way before it became 0:11:52.059 --> 0:11:54.040 a thing, right in the 80s and 90s. She was 0:11:54.340 --> 0:11:57.939 the consummate like, I don't know, it was very male Gaisie. 0:11:58.870 --> 0:12:01.280 And and, you know, we just accepted it as a thing. Yeah. 0:12:01.809 --> 0:12:04.720 And this movie, the director made a very conscious choice 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.370 to de sexualize her. 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:07.949 OK, so she 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.870 she she's never lauded for her sexuality or like, she's 0:12:10.870 --> 0:12:14.020 not romantic in any way. In fact, she's just wearing 0:12:14.020 --> 0:12:16.329 overalls and she's playing basketball and she's good at it. 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.059 And there was a barrage of complaints 0:12:19.090 --> 0:12:22.120 Why yo, you did my girl dirty, you know? Yeah, 0:12:22.150 --> 0:12:25.150 she looks like a clown now and like, Oh yeah, 0:12:25.150 --> 0:12:28.120 and then the director is like, Y'all quit. Yeah, for 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:28.530 like 0:12:28.620 --> 0:12:31.210 now she's like, This is exactly the reason why 0:12:31.570 --> 0:12:33.780 I did that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 0:12:33.780 --> 0:12:36.070 And if you want to, you want to trace trace 0:12:36.070 --> 0:12:38.589 that back a little bit more comic books. Men for 0:12:38.590 --> 0:12:43.540 centuries have have really destroyed what we think of as 0:12:43.540 --> 0:12:46.270 beauty standards because you just look at the way the 0:12:46.270 --> 0:12:48.640 milk cartons are crafted and that the female characters are 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:53.559 just like. The the costumes are like your skin, 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.430 like latex, you know, it's not possible to be protecting 0:12:57.429 --> 0:13:00.690 you from any sort of, you know, no weapon or battle, 0:13:00.700 --> 0:13:03.730 and obviously, you know, there will always be these stereotypes, right? 0:13:03.730 --> 0:13:06.850 Like all women have to be that curvaceous, beautiful hair, 0:13:06.850 --> 0:13:10.120 beautiful eyes and guys have to be muscular and tall. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.040 And I don't know whatever it is that they, you know, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:13.660 used to see in the past. So do you have 0:13:13.660 --> 0:13:15.849 a few present also, like, did you ever feel not 0:13:15.850 --> 0:13:18.610 tall enough, not muscular enough? Have you ever felt insecure? 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.740 Oh, for sure. And the thing is, men don't have 0:13:20.740 --> 0:13:22.390 the kind of avenue to talk about it all. Like, 0:13:22.390 --> 0:13:24.910 you know, it's harder to press that button with other 0:13:24.910 --> 0:13:26.719 April as ugly 0:13:27.510 --> 0:13:28.210 backed up 0:13:28.290 --> 0:13:30.140 movies. I've been sort of toxic masculinity. 0:13:30.140 --> 0:13:30.679 Yeah, with that. 0:13:30.890 --> 0:13:32.990 Yeah, I do watch that too. After you watch this. Yes. 0:13:33.270 --> 0:13:36.340 And so it wasn't this wasn't a big deal for 0:13:36.340 --> 0:13:39.189 me until I think it was made a big deal 0:13:39.190 --> 0:13:42.069 for me. So my height has been a thing for me. 0:13:42.070 --> 0:13:45.130 I'm not like, I don't think I'm really short or tall. 0:13:45.460 --> 0:13:46.960 How about one, seven three, which is like 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.319 I was below average? Thank you. I'm glad to be back. Yes. 0:13:50.980 --> 0:13:53.350 Hey, man, I'm one six. All on a good day. 0:13:53.770 --> 0:13:54.589 It's a good day. 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.360 It might be because I'm also wearing very tall sneakers. Nice. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.120 And she just told me, crossing legs makes you look taller. 0:14:01.130 --> 0:14:04.179 So I guess I subconsciously cross, but I won't anymore 0:14:04.179 --> 0:14:04.689 because I'm 0:14:04.690 --> 0:14:06.580 insecure about my high rise. 0:14:07.090 --> 0:14:07.690 Got you. 0:14:07.780 --> 0:14:11.890 But also knowing that the healthy conversations like these and 0:14:11.890 --> 0:14:15.429 being in a very healthy social cultural space is really 0:14:15.429 --> 0:14:17.770 a bubble. Even in Singapore, because we we have a 0:14:17.770 --> 0:14:20.320 healthy conversation. You know, I think a lot of our 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.890 peers also have healthy conversations. But outside this bubble, general 0:14:23.890 --> 0:14:27.670 conversations in this country or outside, oh, it's not the same. 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:29.320 And I think, OK, so I grew up in a 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.820 very spotty environment. Yeah, I was in the spot school 0:14:33.820 --> 0:14:36.940 when I was younger, and I remember I was one 0:14:36.940 --> 0:14:39.190 of the shadows and the fetus growing up. So it 0:14:39.190 --> 0:14:40.900 wasn't a big deal for me before that. And then 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.300 when I got into the school, they became a very 0:14:43.300 --> 0:14:45.700 big deal because I was assured as kid on the 0:14:45.700 --> 0:14:48.280 team and I was made very aware of it and 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.850 they were tease me incessantly and not creatively like the 0:14:51.850 --> 0:14:54.010 best since I was Shorty Ben and I was like, 0:14:54.220 --> 0:14:57.840 Guys, well, how do I get right? We're about to 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:00.190 give me something more creative, you know? Yeah. Please don't 0:15:00.190 --> 0:15:00.730 fall short. 0:15:00.910 --> 0:15:05.350 That's right. Hey, man, I think again, I relate to you. 0:15:05.740 --> 0:15:08.530 I relate to you regarding height. OK? I love you. 0:15:08.530 --> 0:15:09.570 My stories, data about you. 0:15:09.610 --> 0:15:11.680 I do value my lived experiences as a short man. 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.570 So that made me aware of how I felt about 0:15:16.570 --> 0:15:19.930 being sure, my shortcomings. And people always ask this question, Hey, 0:15:19.930 --> 0:15:21.580 would you ever do, of course, do all that? And 0:15:21.580 --> 0:15:24.590 you and I don't understand why guys are so obsessed 0:15:24.590 --> 0:15:28.600 over this. And I was like, Yeah, sure. And so 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.970 I eventually did date a girl who was like taller 0:15:30.970 --> 0:15:34.000 than me. It wasn't a big deal until my friend 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:35.260 started asking me about it. 0:15:35.620 --> 0:15:38.830 I was like a U.S. leg, but you invested in 0:15:38.830 --> 0:15:39.690 my height like, yeah, 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.160 you don't have a problem with it. Why would they 0:15:42.430 --> 0:15:43.420 be so concerned about it? 0:15:43.420 --> 0:15:47.590 Because it kept coming up in in random conversations with relatives, 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:49.570 because relatives ask all the best questions 0:15:49.750 --> 0:15:50.490 because of 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:53.170 it slowly aided to me. I was like, Should this 0:15:53.170 --> 0:15:56.290 be a thing? You know? So I think in many circumstances, 0:15:56.470 --> 0:15:58.910 we're not. We're not born with these insecurities, you know, 0:15:58.930 --> 0:16:01.750 but it's really like laid upon us by by other 0:16:01.750 --> 0:16:03.730 people that it's on our is on our own us 0:16:03.730 --> 0:16:06.240 to learn how to reject things that that don't they 0:16:06.270 --> 0:16:09.670 should not have control in shackles of us, including things like, 0:16:09.670 --> 0:16:11.830 you know, insecurities about how you look. 0:16:11.890 --> 0:16:14.500 Yeah, yeah. I mean, height has also been a bit 0:16:14.500 --> 0:16:15.970 of a issue for me as well. I'm not the 0:16:15.970 --> 0:16:18.940 tallest go in the group, OK, obviously, especially when I 0:16:18.940 --> 0:16:21.910 came into the industry. You know, I have to admit, right, 0:16:21.910 --> 0:16:25.020 I felt the need to wear like heels all the time. 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:26.740 When I went to like and 0:16:26.740 --> 0:16:28.450 when he was a whole day is a tall order. 0:16:29.620 --> 0:16:31.780 Yes, indeed. Yeah. 0:16:31.780 --> 0:16:33.820 So it was so sad because I would never feel 0:16:33.850 --> 0:16:37.150 comfortable just walking up to an event in sneakers. And 0:16:37.150 --> 0:16:40.180 when I did, the amount of comments that I got 0:16:40.180 --> 0:16:42.010 from people who were like, Yeah, do you realize it's 0:16:42.010 --> 0:16:44.370 all shot like it was just back to back? Yeah, 0:16:44.380 --> 0:16:46.330 like four wheels, because I think they were so used 0:16:46.330 --> 0:16:48.820 to me, like having some extra height or like, OK, OK, 0:16:48.850 --> 0:16:50.650 bring heels or whatever. So one day I was like, 0:16:50.650 --> 0:16:51.910 You know what? I'm just gonna wear sneakers because I'm 0:16:51.910 --> 0:16:54.150 just tired and you know, I'll just rock up. Yeah, 0:16:54.170 --> 0:16:57.400 and then I remember not going to name the celebrity, 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.740 but this guy ended up not going 0:16:59.740 --> 0:17:00.850 to name Joakim Gomez. 0:17:00.940 --> 0:17:04.270 No, it's not OK. You know, when friends make fun 0:17:04.270 --> 0:17:05.830 of each other, you know, there's not from a bet 0:17:05.830 --> 0:17:08.620 that we can go, Yeah, no, it's not. No, it's 0:17:08.619 --> 0:17:12.550 literally none of them. OK? So, so then he rocks 0:17:12.550 --> 0:17:15.540 up to me and he goes, like this. Hey, Sonya, 0:17:15.550 --> 0:17:18.720 where are you? Oh, I see you today, but I 0:17:18.730 --> 0:17:20.440 kind of. And I was just like, Oh my God, 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.109 I don't even know you that well. And you're the 0:17:23.109 --> 0:17:25.330 tenth person. Yeah, we can laugh about it now. But 0:17:25.330 --> 0:17:27.400 I think at the point I was like, I'm so tired. 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.540 I it. So it's funny because I don't mean to laugh. Yeah, 0:17:31.540 --> 0:17:33.550 I know. I know. Yeah, but at that point I 0:17:33.550 --> 0:17:36.220 did that to. Yeah, that's a lot of news, obviously. 0:17:36.460 --> 0:17:39.159 Yes, we are and ourselves. Yeah, but yeah. So it 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:40.800 was just like, I'm so sick of this. 0:17:40.810 --> 0:17:41.379 I'm so dumb. 0:17:42.190 --> 0:17:43.629 So you know how that feels, too? 0:17:43.869 --> 0:17:45.699 Yeah, especially when it's at least as a joke. 0:17:45.700 --> 0:17:47.649 You kind of like you brush it off, but also 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.649 it's a little, you know, it's like I. My step 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:50.830 as 0:17:50.830 --> 0:17:51.669 opposed to like a big. 0:17:51.700 --> 0:17:56.200 Exactly, exactly. So how did you then get over this whole, 0:17:56.380 --> 0:17:59.260 this whole feeling? Just go to L.A., Is it OK? 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.859 No, no. Give me a secret. As Eli said, Hey, 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.460 I did my I did my yeah, ironman is just 0:18:06.460 --> 0:18:07.570 two centimeters 0:18:07.930 --> 0:18:08.740 makes a huge difference. 0:18:08.830 --> 0:18:10.000 It makes a huge difference. 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:10.330 Yeah. 0:18:11.710 --> 0:18:16.260 No, he did not. You know, he's like 16 touches anyway. 0:18:16.369 --> 0:18:16.520 Yeah. 0:18:16.810 --> 0:18:17.200 And I was going to 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:18.370 write a piece. Yeah, I know 0:18:18.790 --> 0:18:20.500 a few months ago again, I was on shoot for 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.379 this magazine shoot and like, and you know how it is. 0:18:23.950 --> 0:18:27.010 You know, on set, sometimes it's super pressurising. Yeah. And 0:18:27.010 --> 0:18:29.980 I was doing it for a magazine where I was, uh, 0:18:30.460 --> 0:18:33.280 one guy and a bunch of guys, right? OK, and 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.560 all these guys were guys. They were like, you know, 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.600 like super like supermodel 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.340 fellows. And I was, you me. And I was like, 0:18:39.340 --> 0:18:40.570 Why am I in this? And I didn't think much 0:18:40.570 --> 0:18:43.630 about it until a I got a comment from the 0:18:43.630 --> 0:18:47.240 hairdresser that like your hair's thinning out and you're like, 0:18:47.260 --> 0:18:48.879 put on weight. So I was like. He said it 0:18:48.930 --> 0:18:51.550 was great. And then I go on set and then 0:18:51.550 --> 0:18:52.540 the director literally, 0:18:52.540 --> 0:18:56.140 like you said, Yeah, well, yeah. And he literally said 0:18:56.140 --> 0:18:56.650 that to my 0:18:56.650 --> 0:18:59.110 face like this. Did you look like this like right 0:18:59.109 --> 0:19:05.020 now because I don't remember you being even remotely chubby 0:19:05.020 --> 0:19:05.480 or anything? 0:19:05.500 --> 0:19:07.990 I had no idea. I mean, I think, yeah, again, 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.930 I neither did I. I thought I was fine. I was, 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.389 you know, running quite a bit. And like, maybe I 0:19:13.390 --> 0:19:15.070 had a bit of soy sauce last night. 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.800 Sorry, a bit more prosperous. 0:19:18.430 --> 0:19:20.620 But I don't think in any means was I overweight 0:19:20.619 --> 0:19:23.260 or obese? So I had a good paradigm going into it. 0:19:23.260 --> 0:19:24.760 I was like, I'm fine. 0:19:24.790 --> 0:19:25.389 Yeah, yeah. 0:19:25.430 --> 0:19:28.180 But then I saw the spread and then everyone else 0:19:28.180 --> 0:19:33.590 looked like fricking great. Got chiseled jawline cut people kind. 0:19:33.710 --> 0:19:35.470 Yeah, I worked out for a whole week after that 0:19:35.470 --> 0:19:36.300 and just like going, 0:19:36.300 --> 0:19:39.160 Yeah, sometimes you go into a shoot and you're like, 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.290 positive and you're like, I'm going to sleep this. And 0:19:41.410 --> 0:19:43.840 it's just these small little comments that like sort of 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.500 chip away at you and you don't feel your best. Eventually, 0:19:47.500 --> 0:19:49.060 when you're in front of the camera and then you 0:19:49.060 --> 0:19:51.820 lose the moment right or you lose the juju or 0:19:51.820 --> 0:19:54.040 whatever it is or the vibe and that just really 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:54.760 ease away at you. 0:19:55.030 --> 0:19:57.369 It does. And I think it's also I just caveat 0:19:57.369 --> 0:20:00.580 here because like I think it's easier said than done, obviously, 0:20:00.580 --> 0:20:05.020 to ignore these things. And we both are. I would say, 0:20:05.020 --> 0:20:07.300 privileged and we are in a position of ease and 0:20:07.300 --> 0:20:09.760 we have work that comes to us for how we look. 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.220 And I understand it could be extremely difficult for people 0:20:12.220 --> 0:20:14.920 out there and at home who are facing insecurities that 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.010 that you can't even begin to articulate because once you do, 0:20:18.310 --> 0:20:21.040 you are legitimizing that pain and that insecurity. So I 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.219 totally understand. I do want to make it to assume like, Oh, 0:20:24.460 --> 0:20:25.330 it's that easy to get 0:20:25.330 --> 0:20:27.340 over, you know? No, no, no. I mean, I think 0:20:27.340 --> 0:20:30.190 it's a very different context because in an industry like 0:20:30.190 --> 0:20:33.760 this is saturated and you're being compared to a lot 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.609 of others, right in a very small space. So I 0:20:36.609 --> 0:20:39.700 think it's while we are not trivializing other sorts of 0:20:39.700 --> 0:20:43.900 insecurities and other other elements under this topic, I think 0:20:43.900 --> 0:20:47.500 it's just heightened. It's super heightened, you know, like emphasized 0:20:47.500 --> 0:20:50.320 more in our industry, and that's why it possibly eats 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.190 away at you faster. On that note, do do guys 0:20:54.190 --> 0:20:56.290 like you in the locker room or in your wherever 0:20:56.290 --> 0:21:01.900 you guys are like comparing like, Oh, like me, I'm macho. Like, 0:21:01.900 --> 0:21:04.330 they only do a bit more like walk, bro. You 0:21:04.330 --> 0:21:06.369 look very good to do because of course I know girls, 0:21:06.369 --> 0:21:10.020 we compete all the time. But yeah, it's kind of like, Oh, like, 0:21:10.510 --> 0:21:12.310 what a weight or like, whatever. You know, we see 0:21:12.310 --> 0:21:16.570 all these silly things sometimes that I feel we shouldn't. 0:21:16.900 --> 0:21:18.580 Yeah, I don't know. And like the kid, the whole 0:21:18.580 --> 0:21:22.270 locker room thing like with men and the sizes of 0:21:22.270 --> 0:21:23.470 different appendages. 0:21:23.470 --> 0:21:25.090 Yes, like we went there. 0:21:25.690 --> 0:21:27.790 OK, yeah, we don't have it kind of is in 0:21:27.790 --> 0:21:29.410 the one of the same. Yes. You know, I mean, 0:21:29.410 --> 0:21:30.070 but then again, like 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.850 beauty centers always shift through the centuries, right? And if 0:21:33.850 --> 0:21:35.830 you can talk about those kind of beauties and it's 0:21:35.830 --> 0:21:39.520 then in medieval and in ancient Greece times, a small 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.219 appendage was considered beautiful. 0:21:42.340 --> 0:21:45.639 Really? Yeah. I mean, you know this? Oh, well, let 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.510 me educate you on the small appendages. Not from experience. 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:50.390 I don't know. OK, yeah. 0:21:50.740 --> 0:21:52.419 OK, OK. I know this is a bit kind of 0:21:52.420 --> 0:21:56.020 like kind of gross, but it does a better ending 0:21:56.020 --> 0:21:57.460 to the story. Yes, OK, I'm reading. 0:21:57.460 --> 0:21:59.260 Yeah, is this a larger meaning to this waiting for 0:21:59.260 --> 0:22:00.219 the climax of the story? 0:22:02.590 --> 0:22:04.480 I'm sorry, it's so hard anyway. 0:22:06.369 --> 0:22:10.060 So OK. Back then, obviously in ancient Greece and medieval 0:22:10.060 --> 0:22:13.149 times and the Renaissance period, why you see statues, we 0:22:13.150 --> 0:22:17.800 have such small bodies. Yes, it's because that was lauded 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:19.570 as as as 0:22:19.810 --> 0:22:20.800 the ideal, as the 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:22.570 ideal aesthetic 0:22:22.810 --> 0:22:27.460 because it signified wealth signify restraint. While other male counterparts 0:22:27.460 --> 0:22:32.110 with long yeah saw that appendages Waseem as primal out 0:22:32.109 --> 0:22:35.560 of control of lower class. Right. And that's why you 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:39.040 see a lot of small appendages on Michelangelo, is it? Yeah, Michelangelo. Yeah, 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.190 I think so. Yeah. And other Grecian statues. And obviously 0:22:42.190 --> 0:22:45.160 this changed over time. Yeah. But you can definitely draw 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.430 parallels to the female figure of the past as well 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.149 when being the. Says was an attainable figure because it 0:22:52.150 --> 0:22:55.060 was a sign of health and prosperity, 0:22:55.150 --> 0:22:56.369 fertility as well and not 0:22:56.619 --> 0:22:57.690 fertility with the hips, 0:22:57.700 --> 0:23:00.910 right? Yeah, I think so. And obviously that that changed 0:23:00.910 --> 0:23:03.160 over time as well, because then they started to view 0:23:03.670 --> 0:23:07.120 obviously obesity as unhealthy. Yeah. But back then, that was 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.050 the beauty standard. So like, the goalposts are always shifting. 0:23:11.050 --> 0:23:11.470 Yeah. 0:23:11.470 --> 0:23:13.570 And you know, along the way, it shifted to like 0:23:13.570 --> 0:23:16.449 all being skinny like and in the 60s or what 0:23:16.450 --> 0:23:19.080 like Twiggy and stuff like that, like those storm surges 0:23:19.100 --> 0:23:22.300 so insanely, you know, the figure became so different. And 0:23:22.300 --> 0:23:25.540 then you see all these like modelling shows, for example, 0:23:25.540 --> 0:23:29.260 they're all clustered a certain way until, I think, up 0:23:29.260 --> 0:23:32.350 until the recent few years. You know, obviously everyone's trying 0:23:32.350 --> 0:23:35.139 to be a bit more inclusive as well. And I 0:23:35.140 --> 0:23:37.120 think it's a great thing. It's so good. Yeah, you 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:40.180 know who's to say this? This girl is a model 0:23:40.180 --> 0:23:42.310 to you and not to me or anything else when 0:23:42.310 --> 0:23:43.480 as opposed to its own right. 0:23:43.510 --> 0:23:44.109 It's hard for us to 0:23:44.109 --> 0:23:47.200 say whether or not each century had that tipping point, 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:49.060 you know, tipping point or the jumping the shark moment 0:23:49.060 --> 0:23:51.129 where they went, OK, enough is enough. We not we 0:23:51.180 --> 0:23:53.290 need to start thinking that way. And then if the 0:23:53.290 --> 0:23:56.320 needle went the other way, you know what I'm saying? Because, yeah, 0:23:56.530 --> 0:23:58.300 it came to a point where we realized that actually 0:23:58.420 --> 0:24:01.240 looking healthy is, is the goal? And then to what 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:04.359 point now we're looking healthy becomes the apex and then 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:06.399 we all have to be super fit. Yes. If we 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:07.570 all have a story to tell when it comes to 0:24:07.570 --> 0:24:09.940 that and then I feel like we're always trying to 0:24:10.150 --> 0:24:12.670 fit within that goalpost. It's always moving, whether or not 0:24:12.670 --> 0:24:13.609 we admit it or not. 0:24:13.630 --> 0:24:17.380 Yeah. And obviously, this ties into how confident you are 0:24:17.380 --> 0:24:19.720 about yourself as well, right? Oh, for sure. I mean, 0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:23.440 confidence is the thing that I think also people seem 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:25.900 to think that everybody in front of the camera, we 0:24:25.900 --> 0:24:28.600 are confident people are that we're confident of how we look, 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:31.120 how we speak, how we behave. But to be honest, 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:33.580 I think some of us could be the least confident 0:24:33.580 --> 0:24:36.220 people and we second guess and think all the time 0:24:36.550 --> 0:24:37.359 about it. I don't know. 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:39.220 How would you rate your confidence now as opposed to 0:24:39.220 --> 0:24:40.209 like five years ago 0:24:40.540 --> 0:24:40.750 on a 0:24:40.750 --> 0:24:43.480 test? You know, like when I started doing this, I 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:45.670 had zero self-confidence. I was always like, Oh, I can't 0:24:45.670 --> 0:24:47.800 do this. I don't know, you know, like, everyone's like, Yeah, 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:50.560 you can. You can go, do this, do that. But 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:52.480 I would see my self-confidence was like at an all 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:54.159 time low when I joined the 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:57.070 industry because you came up through the competition. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:24:57.070 --> 0:24:58.379 This is super pressurising as well. 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:02.020 I will never join a competition again. Just saying, OK, 0:25:02.020 --> 0:25:04.990 just seeing like it was really tough. And you know 0:25:04.990 --> 0:25:08.690 that the fact that also during that contest, you get eliminated, 0:25:08.710 --> 0:25:10.389 you get brought that you get, you know, there's a 0:25:10.390 --> 0:25:12.189 lot of ups and downs, right? So I did get 0:25:12.190 --> 0:25:14.530 eliminated and then I got brought back. So this really 0:25:14.530 --> 0:25:15.930 was like, Oh my god, I can't do this anymore. 0:25:15.940 --> 0:25:18.070 Yeah, where's my self-worth? Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:25:18.070 --> 0:25:21.250 And your self-worth was based on votes, which is, Oh 0:25:21.250 --> 0:25:23.639 my God. Back then, they didn't have Instagram at a point. 0:25:23.650 --> 0:25:26.110 So it's not like, like sort of it's literal votes, 0:25:26.109 --> 0:25:28.690 I think, through a website. Yeah. So I'm like, Oh 0:25:28.690 --> 0:25:30.190 my gosh, I don't think I'm going to win this 0:25:30.190 --> 0:25:34.869 because I'm not the most popular person in terms of voting, right? 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:37.659 So that's when it started. Like, you realize a price 0:25:37.660 --> 0:25:40.090 tag has been put on you or like your value 0:25:40.090 --> 0:25:42.879 is being tied to the amount of likes that you 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:44.859 get now in this context on Instagram. 0:25:45.130 --> 0:25:45.850 Sure. Yeah. 0:25:45.890 --> 0:25:48.940 All right. So when we talk about confidence, how would 0:25:48.940 --> 0:25:51.100 you then rate your confidence level? 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:53.859 Well, in 2015, I co-hosted a week of night seven 0:25:53.859 --> 0:25:55.870 of Sony, and I wore a tassel dress. 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:58.600 I would say his confidence was 15 over 10, and 0:25:59.020 --> 0:26:00.850 then I went up to 15 that week. Thank you 0:26:00.850 --> 0:26:04.240 very much. That's out of the ball, Roy. Yeah, it's 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:07.160 your fault, really. You are welcome. Yeah. 0:26:08.109 --> 0:26:11.649 I think Joakim attempted to also did it, but it 0:26:11.650 --> 0:26:14.170 didn't work out. He ended up borrowing my leggings instead. 0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:17.020 OK, that's pretty challenging. Yes. Yes, yes. He's got quite 0:26:17.020 --> 0:26:20.320 a figure himself. I do. 0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:22.060 Yeah, I do watch the episode too. 0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:23.650 OK, it's a bit. It's very it's very 0:26:23.650 --> 0:26:26.740 primal instinct, for example, with a puppy like it responds 0:26:26.740 --> 0:26:29.560 to two treats, right? Like a response to how much 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:31.510 like it needs a stimulus. And for us, the stimulus 0:26:31.510 --> 0:26:34.300 has become likes. Right? Yeah. So when we get opposed 0:26:34.300 --> 0:26:35.949 it as a love, like if you start to analyze 0:26:35.950 --> 0:26:37.869 why that is post get more likes, it's because I 0:26:37.869 --> 0:26:39.220 looked at this in a way. I paid more attention 0:26:39.220 --> 0:26:42.040 to my pose or I sexualize myself. And then that 0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:45.160 becomes an easy bait, right? Yeah. And then everyone starts 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:47.470 doing it. And then people who are uncomfortable at losing 0:26:47.470 --> 0:26:49.330 out start going like, OK, I have to do it 0:26:49.330 --> 0:26:52.190 as well. And then it's a vicious cycle. So I 0:26:52.619 --> 0:26:55.270 you can see the machine happening. And yet like, it's 0:26:55.270 --> 0:26:57.920 hard to to go against it and stop it. Yeah, 0:26:57.940 --> 0:26:59.230 I don't have a solution. I just wanted to 0:26:59.500 --> 0:27:02.500 to get it out there. Yeah, yeah. Well, that there 0:27:02.500 --> 0:27:05.020 was actually this quote from Yale, and I'm going to 0:27:05.020 --> 0:27:06.340 read it to you now and then you tell me 0:27:06.340 --> 0:27:09.900 what you think. Do men do it themselves? Sometimes, of course, 0:27:09.910 --> 0:27:12.520 but they don't let their doubts stop them as often 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:13.210 as women do. 0:27:13.390 --> 0:27:17.170 Wow, that's that's pretty bold. Men are plenty stopped by 0:27:17.170 --> 0:27:17.920 their doubt, I think. 0:27:17.930 --> 0:27:19.879 Yeah, I don't. I don't agree with that, actually. 0:27:19.900 --> 0:27:21.550 I think maybe it's just not a parent because they 0:27:21.550 --> 0:27:22.960 don't know how to talk about it as much. So 0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:26.410 you can really it's not really televised or documented. But 0:27:26.410 --> 0:27:31.720 we have crumbling, crippling self-doubt and yeah, and society. 0:27:32.020 --> 0:27:33.220 Yeah, heaps of it. 0:27:33.220 --> 0:27:38.050 But has self-doubt and insecurity ever made you think maybe 0:27:38.050 --> 0:27:41.170 I want to change my appearance a little like do 0:27:41.170 --> 0:27:44.409 some fillers or do, I don't know, do something? I mean, 0:27:44.410 --> 0:27:46.360 this is a question that sometimes, you know, we're being 0:27:46.359 --> 0:27:49.570 fed so much at all. So this actually this. She 0:27:49.590 --> 0:27:52.490 losing or this thick skin thing that you do like, 0:27:52.500 --> 0:27:53.820 don't you want to do it too, so you can 0:27:53.820 --> 0:27:56.490 get a sharper nose? Have you ever thought of this? 0:27:56.970 --> 0:28:00.270 When I was in secondary school, I actually did Google 0:28:00.630 --> 0:28:01.570 about knee surgery 0:28:01.570 --> 0:28:04.290 because I was so traumatized at school. 0:28:04.470 --> 0:28:07.740 So yeah, I actually did Google it and I was 0:28:07.980 --> 0:28:08.850 seriously considering 0:28:09.380 --> 0:28:10.050 it because it's 0:28:10.050 --> 0:28:13.899 stupid. I didn't even realize this, but about 99 percent. 0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:16.800 There's a 99 percent increase in men wanting to get 0:28:16.800 --> 0:28:19.890 things like injectables and knees and stuff like that was 0:28:19.890 --> 0:28:22.920 this is become so common in some countries overseas and 0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:25.410 is more or less acceptable as well. Yeah. Not just women, 0:28:25.410 --> 0:28:27.720 but men do it too. Yeah, yeah. I want to 0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:28.129 look better. 0:28:28.140 --> 0:28:29.940 I guess the jury's still out on that for a 0:28:29.940 --> 0:28:31.890 lot of people, right? Some people are uncomfortable with that. 0:28:31.900 --> 0:28:33.910 I think obviously, because like I have a few friends 0:28:33.910 --> 0:28:36.360 who've gone under the knife and they seem a lot 0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:37.230 happier and healthier. 0:28:37.290 --> 0:28:39.810 OK. Go for it. I mean, if it 0:28:39.810 --> 0:28:41.250 if it makes you happy 0:28:41.250 --> 0:28:42.360 or yeah, or if you 0:28:42.660 --> 0:28:45.360 had affected your mental psyche a lot before that, I 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:47.670 had a friend in school, so he had a terrible underbite. OK. 0:28:47.700 --> 0:28:50.920 And just the trauma he got from school, you know, like, 0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:53.490 it is awful again. I mean, it was enough to 0:28:53.490 --> 0:28:56.490 see that the teeth didn't align. You know, but it was. 0:28:56.490 --> 0:28:59.550 It was also enough to become his identity. And when 0:28:59.550 --> 0:29:00.090 you're in secondary 0:29:00.090 --> 0:29:00.480 school, 0:29:01.350 --> 0:29:03.450 yeah, that becomes your identity. You are the draw guy, 0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:04.170 you know, Oh, 0:29:04.170 --> 0:29:07.140 you're that fella. And people will always make fun of it. 0:29:07.140 --> 0:29:07.560 And then. 0:29:08.100 --> 0:29:10.350 And then I was a girl in school. Yeah. Who 0:29:10.350 --> 0:29:11.220 had an overbite? 0:29:12.570 --> 0:29:13.860 Wow, OK. 0:29:13.890 --> 0:29:16.650 And then people tried to match them. No, because I'd 0:29:16.830 --> 0:29:19.590 be perfect for, you know, which just a bit funny, 0:29:19.590 --> 0:29:22.290 but incredibly mean. Yeah, OK. Yeah, it was. It could 0:29:22.290 --> 0:29:23.970 have been the girl the girl was. She was fine 0:29:23.970 --> 0:29:25.230 with it. She should. 0:29:25.380 --> 0:29:27.540 I'm laughing at the ridiculousness 0:29:28.050 --> 0:29:30.900 and the creativity of guys. And so when someone drew 0:29:30.900 --> 0:29:32.690 a photo? No. 0:29:32.790 --> 0:29:34.800 Then it was off. We drew a photo instead of 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:35.370 printing it out. 0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:37.770 Oh God, that's. And at that point, you 0:29:37.930 --> 0:29:40.570 said that point, like obviously stricter measures were in place 0:29:40.570 --> 0:29:43.260 and I was punished. But this friend of mine went 0:29:43.270 --> 0:29:44.370 on and he got surgery. 0:29:44.700 --> 0:29:46.870 And that's completely I mean, like, I'm fine. Yeah, yeah, 0:29:46.870 --> 0:29:48.060 this should be fine because I think it has been 0:29:48.060 --> 0:29:49.740 plaguing you that long. Like, you know, you need to 0:29:49.740 --> 0:29:52.860 feel OK with yourself. But it's not easy, man. It 0:29:52.860 --> 0:29:55.200 just it was. So it's tough to even think about 0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:57.630 being that person, you know? And it's hard to say, yeah, 0:29:57.690 --> 0:29:58.980 just be self-assured. Like, you know, 0:29:58.980 --> 0:29:59.370 it's it's 0:29:59.370 --> 0:30:01.739 hard. It's hard. It's easier said than done. You know, 0:30:01.740 --> 0:30:05.130 I also had a friend from from poly. He was 0:30:05.130 --> 0:30:08.640 very self-conscious about his ears, so his ears were like, 0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:12.270 kind of I honestly didn't see anything. But you know, 0:30:12.270 --> 0:30:14.730 you are you and you feel insecure about something he's 0:30:14.730 --> 0:30:16.740 usually like kind of sticking out a little bit more 0:30:16.740 --> 0:30:20.350 prominent than than the usual, the regular type of person. 0:30:20.730 --> 0:30:22.290 And he would always cover it with his hair like, 0:30:22.290 --> 0:30:24.090 you know, Justin Bieber style last time. All that your 0:30:24.090 --> 0:30:27.320 hair's just like, yeah, you're intimate with your helmet, right? 0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:29.520 So the time came when he had to go to 0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:32.880 nice and you have to shave your hair off. So 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.670 he was sorry. I can't do it. And he disappeared 0:30:35.670 --> 0:30:37.620 from he took an M.S. from school. Or was it 0:30:37.620 --> 0:30:40.350 doing school break or something for like a couple of weeks? 0:30:40.620 --> 0:30:42.810 And he did a tuck on his ears to tuck 0:30:42.810 --> 0:30:45.450 his ears back so that he could shave his head, 0:30:45.450 --> 0:30:48.150 go to Ennis and feel normal. And this is when 0:30:48.150 --> 0:30:52.020 I realized like, Wow, you know, these physical appearances duplicate 0:30:52.020 --> 0:30:55.200 men just as much as women, and an end is 0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:58.740 you're stripped of everything, right? You're just you. Sure, you go. 0:30:58.740 --> 0:31:02.070 There is, I don't know, like teenage acne. Still, you know, 0:31:02.070 --> 0:31:04.560 I went through, I need to like back in school and, 0:31:04.770 --> 0:31:06.270 you know, he had to shave was have obviously he 0:31:06.270 --> 0:31:08.040 wanted to do something that made him feel a little 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:10.800 bit more comfortable and self-assured. 0:31:10.830 --> 0:31:11.520 I think it's also 0:31:11.730 --> 0:31:14.220 I wouldn't screw it straight up. Point that out. I mean, 0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:17.160 I think it's also like a sensitive topic, but I'm 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:20.790 glad he did it. I guess it made him feel better. Yeah. 0:31:20.970 --> 0:31:23.520 And then the argument is also like, if you are 0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:25.920 that person and the situation people tell you just own it. 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:28.290 Like just be funny or like, you know, make light 0:31:28.290 --> 0:31:28.560 of it, 0:31:28.950 --> 0:31:30.770 even though it's kind of hot. So to say it 0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:31.610 is 0:31:31.830 --> 0:31:33.660 because you don't want to always have that at the 0:31:33.660 --> 0:31:34.170 top of your 0:31:34.170 --> 0:31:35.730 head as well. And yeah, you 0:31:35.740 --> 0:31:37.110 do want to make a joke and then make it 0:31:37.110 --> 0:31:37.710 fall short. 0:31:37.730 --> 0:31:38.950 Yeah. Yeah. 0:31:39.300 --> 0:31:41.969 Yes. On that note, I'm very glad you didn't do 0:31:41.970 --> 0:31:45.840 knee surgery. And you know, from experience watching Grey's, that 0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:47.550 would have gone very bad. Yeah. 0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:48.750 So, yes, thank you. 0:31:48.930 --> 0:31:51.420 Yeah, I'm glad that you didn't do it. OK. On 0:31:51.420 --> 0:31:54.000 that note, anything else that you want to leave your 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:55.830 brothers here to do? Because obviously it has been a 0:31:55.830 --> 0:31:58.380 really insightful chat, and thanks for joining me on this. 0:31:58.560 --> 0:32:01.560 Anything words of advice or last words you want to 0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:02.310 leave for your bros. 0:32:02.490 --> 0:32:04.830 Just just just do you, man? 0:32:07.140 --> 0:32:09.330 And that shall be printed on a T-shirt? 0:32:09.450 --> 0:32:10.470 Yeah, it's just do you? 0:32:10.610 --> 0:32:12.590 Yeah, I think I think it's it's hot for everybody, 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:16.860 but I think there's immense power in articulating it with 0:32:16.860 --> 0:32:19.440 your friends. I'd probably just reiterate what Aaron said as well. 0:32:20.700 --> 0:32:23.130 There's a lot of power in sharing your heart, and 0:32:23.130 --> 0:32:26.820 I think you'd be surprised, even like guy to guy. 0:32:27.030 --> 0:32:29.490 How receptive like we can be. My, my, my guy, 0:32:29.490 --> 0:32:32.220 friends and I have these conversations over the PlayStation Network 0:32:32.220 --> 0:32:33.990 like we literally have our headsets on. We're playing a 0:32:33.990 --> 0:32:36.820 game each segment, a few factory rules. 0:32:37.350 --> 0:32:40.709 Really? Yeah. So I mean, it's fine. I think I 0:32:40.710 --> 0:32:41.040 think 0:32:41.820 --> 0:32:43.950 you'd be surprised. I think that just that first step 0:32:43.950 --> 0:32:46.110 is really hard to open that line of communication. But 0:32:46.410 --> 0:32:47.280 once you do, it's 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:49.580 you build a support system. And I think it's. Great. 0:32:49.730 --> 0:32:51.500 That's right, Poppy, stand tall one. 0:32:52.550 --> 0:32:54.350 I think I lost on this one. I'll give it 0:32:54.350 --> 0:32:59.360 to Ben. Thanks for joining us today. Now, if you 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:02.390 liked this episode, please hit the follow button. We are 0:33:02.390 --> 0:33:06.500 on Spotify and Apple Podcasts also follow its Clarity Echo 0:33:06.500 --> 0:33:09.470 and Instagram and Facebook for more content like this, and 0:33:09.470 --> 0:33:10.310 we'll see you next time.