WEBVTT - What you need to know about solar panels in your home 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:02.310 This is a C N A podcast. 0:00:02.870 --> 0:00:05.950 If you've been thinking about adding a solar power system 0:00:05.950 --> 0:00:10.230 to your home, you're not alone in Singapore. Over 6000 0:00:10.230 --> 0:00:14.360 homeowners installed solar panels on their roofs in 2021. 0:00:14.890 --> 0:00:18.110 Solar looks like a more and more attractive option as 0:00:18.110 --> 0:00:22.080 the cost of going solar trends downwards every year just 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.200 as the cost of climate change keep rising and calls 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:28.170 to switch to renewable energy grow more urgent 0:00:28.860 --> 0:00:32.630 but harnessing solar isn't as simple as plunking a panel 0:00:32.630 --> 0:00:35.710 on your roof. How can you figure out what's best 0:00:35.710 --> 0:00:39.000 for you and what do you need to consider before switching? 0:00:39.010 --> 0:00:42.520 My guest is belong to, he's the founder of the 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.550 startup Solar AI. 0:00:44.780 --> 0:00:48.360 His company has a software program that offers an instant 0:00:48.370 --> 0:00:51.520 estimate and how much it would cost to install solar 0:00:51.530 --> 0:00:55.140 on your roof. Welcome to the conversations. Thank you for 0:00:55.140 --> 0:00:57.640 coming in today. So good to see you in the 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.350 first off. Let's talk about solar AI what inspired you 0:01:01.350 --> 0:01:03.820 to launch the company three years ago in the midst 0:01:03.820 --> 0:01:07.010 of the pandemic? And how did the idea come about? 0:01:07.020 --> 0:01:10.010 I think quite a lot of it was probably 0:01:10.209 --> 0:01:13.950 a push from climate anxiety. Initially, three years ago, I 0:01:13.950 --> 0:01:18.870 had no background about solar was never like an electrical engineer, 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.530 did like a finance major and then went on to 0:01:21.530 --> 0:01:24.950 management consulting. But at that point in time, I first 0:01:24.950 --> 0:01:29.139 joined kind of like a corporate innovation team. They really 0:01:29.140 --> 0:01:31.750 focus on decarbonization problems, right? So 0:01:31.900 --> 0:01:34.510 I first joined them initially as like an entrepreneur in 0:01:34.510 --> 0:01:37.880 residence and eventually then started studying the problem statement of 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.450 rooftop solar quite closely at that point. One of the 0:01:40.450 --> 0:01:43.899 things which stood out to me was that the energy 0:01:43.900 --> 0:01:47.880 industry has this measurement called the level IZED cost of electricity, right, 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.210 which is kind of like how much it cost and 0:01:51.210 --> 0:01:54.560 to end across the value chain from mining extraction through 0:01:54.570 --> 0:01:59.190 production and finally downstream to distribution. What is that unit 0:01:59.190 --> 0:02:01.530 cost of different energy sources 0:02:01.910 --> 0:02:07.150 From about 2015 globally? Rooftop Solar has already fallen that 0:02:07.150 --> 0:02:10.980 below any other kind of fossil-fuel energy, right? But when 0:02:10.980 --> 0:02:12.489 I was first looking at the problem statement, 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.900 looking around Singapore, I mean, you rarely see rooftop solar 0:02:16.900 --> 0:02:19.630 panels installed, right? And then that just really begs the 0:02:19.630 --> 0:02:24.000 question of okay, if solar is already cheaper than all 0:02:24.010 --> 0:02:27.480 other energy sources, why isn't adoption so much higher? That 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:31.710 was when I really started exploring and testing out solutions then? Okay. 0:02:31.710 --> 0:02:31.800 So 0:02:31.815 --> 0:02:35.535 how has solar a eyes performance been so far? I wonder, 0:02:35.535 --> 0:02:37.795 you know, what sort of milestone have you achieved since 0:02:37.794 --> 0:02:41.075 the company's inception. Yeah, I remember when I first started 0:02:41.075 --> 0:02:43.734 looking at the problem statement, of course, I mean, the 0:02:43.735 --> 0:02:45.995 first thing that I usually do is go on Google 0:02:45.995 --> 0:02:48.575 and try and search to learn more about solar, right? 0:02:48.575 --> 0:02:51.015 Because I knew nothing at that point in time. I 0:02:51.014 --> 0:02:55.325 remember when I was searching about rooftop solar content, there 0:02:55.325 --> 0:02:59.125 was a lot of content from Australia or us, right? 0:02:59.125 --> 0:02:59.805 But then 0:02:59.980 --> 0:03:02.829 some of them might be misleading. So I think one 0:03:02.830 --> 0:03:06.370 of the examples which stands out the most is in 0:03:06.370 --> 0:03:09.710 Australia because they are on the southern hemisphere, your solar 0:03:09.710 --> 0:03:12.920 panels should be oriented kind of like northwards, right? While 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.820 in the U S northern hemisphere, they should be oriented southwards. 0:03:15.830 --> 0:03:18.350 And so you'd read all these articles saying like okay 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.720 to optimize your solar system, you know, your panels should 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:22.270 face south or 0:03:22.290 --> 0:03:25.440 Your panels should face north. But in Singapore, because we're 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.660 on the equator, actually the angle of your solar panels 0:03:28.660 --> 0:03:32.269 don't differ, but it doesn't, it doesn't change much instead 0:03:32.270 --> 0:03:36.500 like the flatter, your panels are the more sunlight it captures, right? 0:03:36.510 --> 0:03:38.680 Since then. I mean, we've written a lot of content 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.360 and these days like our website brings in about 15,000 0:03:42.370 --> 0:03:44.600 monthly readers from across the region. 0:03:44.750 --> 0:03:48.140 And over the last year or so, we've completed in 2022, 0:03:48.140 --> 0:03:51.460 completed more than 100 solar projects. Of course, it's still 0:03:51.470 --> 0:03:53.500 baby steps at this point in time, but we're really 0:03:53.500 --> 0:03:56.620 looking to kind of scale that up, especially with like 0:03:56.620 --> 0:03:57.010 a 0:03:57.140 --> 0:04:00.390 new offering that we launched about six months ago called 0:04:00.390 --> 0:04:03.530 a Rent to Own solar model where we allow customers 0:04:03.530 --> 0:04:06.160 to kind of not have to pay the upfront cost 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.850 of solar, which is oftentimes quite hefty but rather just 0:04:09.850 --> 0:04:12.990 pay for solar as a service on a monthly basis 0:04:12.990 --> 0:04:15.580 where we cover all the installation, of course, as well 0:04:15.580 --> 0:04:18.600 as repairs and maintenance on the system. Really interesting. That's 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.219 a really unique concept. And I wonder how, 0:04:21.235 --> 0:04:24.964 how does this help rooftop solar become more accessible to 0:04:24.975 --> 0:04:28.885 underserved property owners? I think when it comes to rooftop 0:04:28.885 --> 0:04:32.685 solar because in the market is still so new, right, 0:04:32.685 --> 0:04:35.724 most people, when they're thinking about solar, I mean, they 0:04:35.725 --> 0:04:38.595 don't know someone else who's had a solar system for 0:04:38.595 --> 0:04:41.825 maybe more than 2 to 3 years. Right. While solar 0:04:41.825 --> 0:04:45.325 panels are typically wanted for 25 or 30 years, 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.820 If they don't know someone else who's had a solar 0:04:47.820 --> 0:04:49.960 system for more than 2-3 years, it's very difficult for 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.570 them to see through that kind of time horizon. If 0:04:52.570 --> 0:04:54.490 you pay up front for a solar system, 0:04:54.740 --> 0:04:59.310 the typical break even period is about seven years or so. Right. 0:04:59.310 --> 0:05:02.530 And so most people hesitate because a lot of our 0:05:02.529 --> 0:05:05.470 customers will ask us, you know, what if maintenance cost 0:05:05.470 --> 0:05:08.840 becomes really expensive? What if like my system fails after 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.420 a couple of years and valid questions? For sure. Exactly. 0:05:12.430 --> 0:05:16.140 And in a market when there is still quite a 0:05:16.140 --> 0:05:19.339 lack of awareness or maybe misunderstanding about how the product works. 0:05:19.350 --> 0:05:21.430 Sometimes it's quite complicated. It is 0:05:21.775 --> 0:05:24.685 good for them to cross that hurdle to say okay, 0:05:24.695 --> 0:05:28.955 I'll pay like 20 $30,000 upfront for rooftop solar system. 0:05:28.964 --> 0:05:31.455 So these rent to own models that we crafted were 0:05:31.455 --> 0:05:36.164 really kind of created to de risk rooftop solar ownership, 0:05:36.175 --> 0:05:40.815 right by allowing them to install solar without having to 0:05:40.815 --> 0:05:42.945 worry about any out of pocket costs in the system 0:05:42.945 --> 0:05:45.555 because we'll cover all of those. And typically on a 0:05:45.555 --> 0:05:48.804 monthly basis, for example, our average customer might pay 0:05:49.180 --> 0:05:53.640 about 250 to $300 per month. Typically, their electricity bill 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.880 savings is already 350 to 400. So they already have 0:05:57.890 --> 0:06:02.180 the net kind of $100 savings. Even while paying off 0:06:02.180 --> 0:06:05.179 the rooftop solar system after 10 years, they convert to 0:06:05.180 --> 0:06:07.599 their ownership. Quite an investment that can actually pay off 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.770 for many of the households. I'm sure there are a 0:06:09.770 --> 0:06:12.710 lot of listeners wondering what are some of the factors 0:06:12.710 --> 0:06:15.500 that they need to consider before they install these panels? 0:06:15.510 --> 0:06:15.910 I mean, how, 0:06:15.926 --> 0:06:18.156 how you determine the suitability of the property of a 0:06:18.156 --> 0:06:22.636 rooftop panel? Yeah, generally because the cost of solar has 0:06:22.636 --> 0:06:27.206 fallen quite a lot for the average lender homeowners. For example, 0:06:27.246 --> 0:06:32.145 if you actually calculate the annualized return of your savings 0:06:32.146 --> 0:06:36.146 from installing a rooftop solar system, typically the annualized returns 0:06:36.146 --> 0:06:39.126 are between 15 to 20% per year. So actually, if 0:06:39.126 --> 0:06:41.946 you think of it as like an investment class, it 0:06:41.946 --> 0:06:42.656 is prob 0:06:42.672 --> 0:06:45.622 probably one of the best performing investment classes out there. 0:06:45.632 --> 0:06:47.682 So the general rule of thumb I think is really 0:06:47.682 --> 0:06:50.762 that if you have a roof, it probably just makes 0:06:50.762 --> 0:06:53.772 sense to go ahead and install solar, right? You could 0:06:53.772 --> 0:06:55.872 choose to have solar as a service model where you 0:06:55.872 --> 0:06:57.782 don't pay any money up front or you could just 0:06:57.791 --> 0:07:01.152 choose to pay it upfront altogether. But generally the couple 0:07:01.152 --> 0:07:03.512 things to look out for, you really want to try 0:07:03.512 --> 0:07:07.392 and maximize your roof space for solar panels. Of course, 0:07:07.392 --> 0:07:09.420 taking into consideration that 0:07:09.730 --> 0:07:12.410 there may be certain parts of your roof which might 0:07:12.410 --> 0:07:15.790 be shaded. Typically, if your roof is shaded or some 0:07:15.790 --> 0:07:19.070 panels in an array are shaded, they may actually affect 0:07:19.070 --> 0:07:22.060 the performance of the outputs of the other panels in 0:07:22.060 --> 0:07:24.910 the same string. So shading areas you would probably want 0:07:24.910 --> 0:07:28.460 to avoid if there are trees, then maybe you might 0:07:28.460 --> 0:07:30.770 want to request for them to be trimmed a little 0:07:30.770 --> 0:07:34.440 bit for instance. And otherwise, because solar panels are installed 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.510 on your roof, of course, for some 0:07:36.660 --> 0:07:40.390 homeowners or like property owners with older roofs, especially like 0:07:40.390 --> 0:07:42.960 tall roofs which might be brittle. They may want to 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.290 consider doing waterproofing. At the same time with the solar installation, 0:07:47.300 --> 0:07:51.240 typically customers with kind of either metal or concrete roof 0:07:51.250 --> 0:07:54.410 of which like for industrial properties. This is extremely common 0:07:54.590 --> 0:07:59.700 typically for new houses, most architectural styles are using metal 0:07:59.700 --> 0:08:02.460 or concrete roofs as well. These roof materials are all 0:08:02.470 --> 0:08:05.460 non penetrative in terms of installation. So it's really kind 0:08:05.460 --> 0:08:08.370 of fast free and then it's really just okay. I 0:08:08.370 --> 0:08:09.960 have this amount of roof space. Let me try and 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.590 maximize the number of panels I can install. That's very interesting. 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:15.500 You talked about this being a long term, 0:08:15.525 --> 0:08:19.515 5, 10, 15 years for people who need to move around. 0:08:19.515 --> 0:08:23.615 Is that even? Yeah, the ability of the question if 0:08:23.615 --> 0:08:26.635 you look at like the total cost of installing rooftop 0:08:26.635 --> 0:08:31.175 solar system, that's maybe about in Singapore, like maybe about 50% 0:08:31.175 --> 0:08:34.815 of that is the hardware, meaning solar panels, the inverters, 0:08:34.815 --> 0:08:38.985 any cables, et cetera and then 50% of which is labor. 0:08:38.995 --> 0:08:42.880 So because labor causes such a hefty component. 0:08:43.020 --> 0:08:48.079 If you look at uninstalling and reinstalling a solar system 0:08:48.090 --> 0:08:52.679 onto a new roof also because the roof structure might 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.010 be different, the roof size might be different. Typically, our 0:08:56.010 --> 0:08:59.330 advice to customers is if they have installed solar, just 0:08:59.340 --> 0:09:02.570 tag it onto the property value because now you are 0:09:02.570 --> 0:09:06.470 essentially selling a home with like free electricity, you know, 0:09:06.470 --> 0:09:07.760 like that definitely is 0:09:07.776 --> 0:09:11.045 with something that's selling point. For sure. I wonder how 0:09:11.046 --> 0:09:14.376 the AI fit into all this process. So when we 0:09:14.376 --> 0:09:17.616 first started one of the early hypothesis that we had 0:09:17.616 --> 0:09:21.696 was if you look at the total cost of solar right, 0:09:21.696 --> 0:09:25.986 the industry has this term, they call the soft costs, 0:09:25.996 --> 0:09:30.816 which is generally cost of sales as well as paperwork permitting, 0:09:30.816 --> 0:09:32.520 customer service negotiations. Also 0:09:32.532 --> 0:09:35.302 that costs which are not related to the actual installation 0:09:35.302 --> 0:09:38.372 of the solar system. Right? Soft costs in the rooftop 0:09:38.372 --> 0:09:43.172 solar industry is typically between 25 to 35% of total costs. 0:09:43.182 --> 0:09:46.682 And in comparison, for example, the panels themselves are typically 0:09:46.682 --> 0:09:50.902 around 30%. So soft costs are as high as if not, 0:09:50.902 --> 0:09:54.022 maybe even higher than the solar panels itself. And so 0:09:54.032 --> 0:09:57.281 our theory was really like, okay, let's 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.459 identify ways to try and minimize this soft cost in 0:10:01.460 --> 0:10:04.160 terms of customer education. And so then from there, we've 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.760 really built quite a few kind of computer vision models 0:10:07.770 --> 0:10:12.000 to be able to read satellite imagery, essentially to do 0:10:12.010 --> 0:10:15.610 edge detection, to identify where are the areas of the 0:10:15.610 --> 0:10:18.210 roof edge, start to identify these polygon 0:10:18.225 --> 0:10:20.915 and then start to do some assessment on what is 0:10:20.915 --> 0:10:24.135 the usable error for rooftop solar. The intent of it 0:10:24.145 --> 0:10:28.295 is really to kind of automatically assess what is the 0:10:28.295 --> 0:10:32.604 solar potential of different roofs, right from our company's perspective. 0:10:32.605 --> 0:10:35.434 And that ends up becoming a sales engine to identify 0:10:35.434 --> 0:10:38.684 specific segments of customers in the region. 0:10:38.830 --> 0:10:40.690 But then at the same time on our website, and 0:10:40.690 --> 0:10:43.939 we have also built this into a self service, instant 0:10:43.940 --> 0:10:47.939 solar assessment tool. So customers would be able to click 0:10:47.950 --> 0:10:52.370 into pre assessed rooftops and then instantly get, what is 0:10:52.370 --> 0:10:55.270 the solar potential of their roof? How much could they save? 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.640 What is the expected costs? Because they, 0:10:57.665 --> 0:11:00.015 There's still quite a lot of misconception. I mean, some 0:11:00.015 --> 0:11:03.165 customers might feel like, you know, like a solar system 0:11:03.165 --> 0:11:05.935 is really expensive because five years ago I checked in 0:11:05.934 --> 0:11:07.915 with my architect and he told me it was like 0:11:07.915 --> 0:11:12.145 $100,000 just to allow customers to like self educate and 0:11:12.145 --> 0:11:14.595 start to understand the value of solar. It's very interesting. 0:11:14.595 --> 0:11:16.500 Have there been any case where 0:11:16.890 --> 0:11:19.439 a client comes up to you? Can you check if 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.150 this is feasible? And you said sorry, not your place 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.020 has ever had some kids. I mean, of course, with 0:11:26.030 --> 0:11:29.329 rooftop solar systems, you would only be able to 0:11:29.740 --> 0:11:33.179 install it if you own a roof with quite a 0:11:33.179 --> 0:11:35.980 lot of people who are, for example, myself. I mean, 0:11:35.980 --> 0:11:38.020 I live in the H D B I can't install 0:11:38.020 --> 0:11:40.589 solar even if I really, really wanted to. So there 0:11:40.590 --> 0:11:43.070 have been inquiries like that, that we would then have 0:11:43.070 --> 0:11:46.350 to kind of just politely explain to that. Unfortunately, you 0:11:46.350 --> 0:11:49.670 can't do it or in some cases like condominium penthouse 0:11:49.670 --> 0:11:52.350 owners who would be able to install solar 0:11:52.770 --> 0:11:59.150 based on Singapore's current metering structure, there's also some limitations. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:05.030 So if you essentially are like a single property owner, 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.089 meaning owner occupied, right? Or if you're a commercial property, 0:12:08.105 --> 0:12:10.574 Like you own the entire building and pay a single 0:12:10.575 --> 0:12:14.934 electricity bill, if you generate excess solar in Singapore sp 0:12:14.934 --> 0:12:17.905 group would actually pay you for that excess solar energy 0:12:17.915 --> 0:12:21.194 for a residential home. It might be about 80% of 0:12:21.205 --> 0:12:23.435 the current sp retail tariff. So 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.160 this quarter is maybe about 30 cents. SP would pay 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.319 you about 24 cents for any solar that's generated. If 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.030 you're a commercial property owner, you would be then paid 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.920 based on the wholesale market rates which fluctuates on a 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.569 half hourly basis based on demand and supply. But for instance, 0:12:39.580 --> 0:12:43.260 if you are a condominium owner or attendant in an 0:12:43.260 --> 0:12:46.100 M C S D because of this thing called like 0:12:46.100 --> 0:12:47.960 the master submitters scheme. 0:12:48.150 --> 0:12:50.930 If you, I know this starts to get a little 0:12:50.929 --> 0:12:55.080 bit technical, but if you generate excess solar, that excess 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.590 solar electrons would actually just end up going into one 0:12:58.590 --> 0:13:01.030 of your other tenants. And so then in that case, 0:13:01.030 --> 0:13:03.760 you have no way of getting compensated for that access 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.570 because the entire building overall before it is 0:13:06.580 --> 0:13:10.280 fed outside to the grid would already then consume that 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:14.600 solar energy. So in some cases, it's less feasible just 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.679 from an economics perspective, maybe unless they start to consider 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.689 a battery storage system, but then that battery storage is 0:13:21.690 --> 0:13:24.200 also have their own set of kind of like economics 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:25.000 as well. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.239 Are you looking for ways to make your money work 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:35.589 harder for you or need tips on saving investing and 0:13:35.590 --> 0:13:40.270 making financial decisions? Join me, Sara Al Khaldi on money talks, 0:13:40.340 --> 0:13:45.650 cnn's top personal finance podcast from investment basics to 0:13:45.665 --> 0:13:49.405 the fire movement and legacy planning. I look at financial 0:13:49.405 --> 0:13:52.815 trends and new stories that matter to you. Check out 0:13:52.825 --> 0:13:55.955 our complete playlist on the C N A AP Apple 0:13:55.955 --> 0:14:00.074 and Google podcasts or Spotify. You can also follow us 0:14:00.085 --> 0:14:02.705 or subscribe for new weekly episodes 0:14:10.630 --> 0:14:13.090 since we're talking about the battery storage. I mean, there 0:14:13.090 --> 0:14:17.160 are questions about efficiency and reliability. What happens, you know 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.400 when it's dark or cloudy days or at night? Yeah, 0:14:21.410 --> 0:14:25.360 great question. So when you have a solar system, the 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.800 solar system is typically connected into your distribution board for 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:34.170 the property, which basically serves as an additional input source 0:14:34.180 --> 0:14:37.030 of energy as an alternative to the grid. But this 0:14:37.030 --> 0:14:40.530 is still completely connected to that distribution board. Meaning 0:14:40.900 --> 0:14:44.650 in the evenings, actually, when the amount of sunlight starts 0:14:44.650 --> 0:14:48.790 to decline, your inverters will actually shut off automatically. And 0:14:48.790 --> 0:14:52.220 then thereafter, you basically just continue pulling electricity from the 0:14:52.220 --> 0:14:56.070 grid in the daytime. When solar energy is generating electrons 0:14:56.070 --> 0:14:59.560 will flow in the path of least resistance. So whatever 0:14:59.570 --> 0:15:01.740 appliances are consuming electricity too, 0:15:01.755 --> 0:15:04.935 first pull it out from the solar panels and then 0:15:04.935 --> 0:15:08.835 while they're doing that, they stop pulling electricity from the grid. 0:15:08.845 --> 0:15:12.375 And so then typically your daytime energy consumption or like 0:15:12.375 --> 0:15:17.745 what you're paying your electricity retailer would be significantly lower. Interesting. 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.830 So the assumption is that the solar panels go on 0:15:21.830 --> 0:15:25.780 the roof you talked about in the Singapore being land scarce. 0:15:25.780 --> 0:15:27.760 There is a bit of the issue with the living 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.700 in condominiums. HDB with the amount of urban shading as well. 0:15:31.710 --> 0:15:35.140 Do these factors affect the scalability of the business? Would 0:15:35.140 --> 0:15:37.520 you say that's one of the biggest hurdles in a way? 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.470 Because ultimately, the main constraint is really that we are 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:43.630 land scars. But then 0:15:43.810 --> 0:15:49.580 if you kind of look at Singapore's potential energy mix overall, 0:15:49.590 --> 0:15:53.360 I mean, we don't have space for like wind as well. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.220 So if you talk about greening the grid for Singapore 0:15:57.230 --> 0:16:02.420 solar is probably still the best option out there available. Hypothetically, 0:16:02.420 --> 0:16:04.820 if we do soul arise all routes in Singapore and 0:16:04.820 --> 0:16:05.860 we've done some kind 0:16:05.883 --> 0:16:10.653 Like data science behind this, you could probably contribute about 15% 0:16:10.663 --> 0:16:14.003 of samples total energy consumption. So it's still low. But 0:16:14.003 --> 0:16:17.743 that's primarily because as a country, I mean, our energy 0:16:17.743 --> 0:16:21.743 use per capita is extremely high primarily from like the 0:16:21.743 --> 0:16:26.663 industrial processes. But as a business, ultimately, which tries to 0:16:26.663 --> 0:16:27.933 attract external invest 0:16:27.956 --> 0:16:30.956 this, we would have to then also have a regional 0:16:30.956 --> 0:16:33.856 road map. And ultimately, that is really our ambitions as 0:16:33.856 --> 0:16:36.566 well because the single goal for us as a company 0:16:36.566 --> 0:16:40.550 is really to try and massively scale rooftop solar adoption. Well, 0:16:40.550 --> 0:16:43.880 the good news is that solar power, as you mentioned, 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:48.430 isn't a fringe technology anymore. It's gotten cheap so fast 0:16:48.430 --> 0:16:50.030 over the past decade or so. 0:16:50.250 --> 0:16:53.360 But why is that take up so slow? You did 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.760 mention the education and the people having doubts. But what 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.950 do you think it's stopping them? I think it is 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:04.770 those factors combined with kind of the fact that status. Cool. Right. 0:17:04.780 --> 0:17:08.909 If we're using electricity, we really only need to pay 0:17:08.910 --> 0:17:11.690 for it when we turn on the switch, when you're 0:17:11.690 --> 0:17:16.639 switching to solar, that's inherently like a sizable upfront cost 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.120 of capital that you need to fork out the ever 0:17:20.130 --> 0:17:23.810 which rooftop solar system cost would be about 20,000 for 0:17:23.810 --> 0:17:26.620 a standard kind of inter terrace house. And of course, 0:17:26.619 --> 0:17:30.250 that is like an investment that you would then require 0:17:30.250 --> 0:17:33.880 like 578 years to see back your returns and then 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.310 really start to get free electricity from that point onwards 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.880 in the market. When most people don't really trust or 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.740 fully understand the product, I think that is really like 0:17:42.740 --> 0:17:45.109 the main blocker. But then in the last one or 0:17:45.109 --> 0:17:48.369 two years as well, we've seen rooftop solar adoption in 0:17:48.369 --> 0:17:50.000 Singapore increase a lot worse. 0:17:50.010 --> 0:17:54.119 Some partners, these are like solar installers when we first 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.020 met them two or three years ago that maybe doing 0:17:56.020 --> 0:17:58.490 like 2 to 3 projects a month and that was 0:17:58.490 --> 0:18:02.220 maybe like a good month. Um These days, they could 0:18:02.220 --> 0:18:05.720 be doing like 30 40 projects back to back every month, 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.190 like residential projects. So we've seen that 10 X increase 0:18:09.190 --> 0:18:12.510 over time, which is really encouraging as well. It certainly is. 0:18:12.510 --> 0:18:15.940 And with the demand, obviously, they're growing number of other 0:18:15.940 --> 0:18:19.639 solar solution startups as well. I wonder how stiff is 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:19.760 that 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.430 competition in this market? And then how do you plan 0:18:22.430 --> 0:18:24.350 to stay ahead of the game? This is something that 0:18:24.350 --> 0:18:27.990 we would look out for in the last couple of years. 0:18:27.990 --> 0:18:31.010 There have been a lot of companies in Singapore who 0:18:31.010 --> 0:18:33.149 moved into the solar industry. A lot of these are 0:18:33.150 --> 0:18:37.450 generally engineering companies who then started to extend into rooftop 0:18:37.450 --> 0:18:41.010 solar in terms of our business model. This is not 0:18:41.020 --> 0:18:44.409 actually a bad thing because as a company, we typically 0:18:44.420 --> 0:18:48.550 work closely with installer partners to really supply the labor 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:49.750 to do rooftop solar and 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:54.429 installations. Of course, the higher that supply the more partners 0:18:54.430 --> 0:18:57.000 we are able to work with and the more capacity 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.619 we have to be able to build projects to customers. Ultimately, 0:19:00.619 --> 0:19:04.340 we are a product or customer service layer, right? Customers 0:19:04.340 --> 0:19:09.140 typically discover us mostly through Google search and then thereafter 0:19:09.140 --> 0:19:12.090 we provide them with these kinds of zero upfront cost 0:19:12.090 --> 0:19:14.899 offers which for the residential segment at this point in 0:19:14.900 --> 0:19:17.280 time or the only company in Singapore that does it. 0:19:17.290 --> 0:19:19.640 But then at the same time, this is also like 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.900 a business model which is well established in other parts 0:19:22.900 --> 0:19:25.119 of the world, right? So in us, you have a 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.850 lot of listed companies like Sandra and solar city who 0:19:28.850 --> 0:19:31.540 are all operating on this model. And in Europe may 0:19:31.540 --> 0:19:35.760 be the largest companies are maybe about 56 years old, right? 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.490 So Southeast Asia as a region is maybe 10 years 0:19:38.490 --> 0:19:41.570 behind us, like five years behind Europe. And we're really 0:19:41.570 --> 0:19:45.449 taking all of that learning and what's worked for consumers 0:19:45.450 --> 0:19:46.930 to try and apply them and 0:19:46.940 --> 0:19:50.460 In the region. And your goal is to convert 5000 0:19:50.460 --> 0:19:54.930 properties across Southeast Asia to solar by 2025, 2 years 0:19:54.930 --> 0:19:59.050 left coming along. So there's still a lot to do. 0:19:59.060 --> 0:20:02.620 Our expansion plans is really over the next 1.5 years 0:20:02.619 --> 0:20:06.430 to start to move into Philippines. Their electricity prices in 0:20:06.430 --> 0:20:09.510 us dollar basis is about the same as Singapore, right? 0:20:09.510 --> 0:20:12.410 But of course kind of cost of living adjusted. That's 0:20:12.410 --> 0:20:14.050 about three times higher. 0:20:14.260 --> 0:20:18.740 The benefits of solar is even more heightened when your 0:20:18.750 --> 0:20:22.930 cost of retail electricity is expensive, right? As well as 0:20:22.930 --> 0:20:26.240 when your cost of solar installation, primarily from the labor 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.729 component because panels and inverters, these are all global supply 0:20:29.730 --> 0:20:33.419 chains are really standardized, right? When your labor component cost 0:20:33.430 --> 0:20:35.280 is able to be reduced, 0:20:35.290 --> 0:20:37.910 then the kind of cost savings that you get from 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.210 installing solar compared to just taking electricity, but really creates 0:20:42.220 --> 0:20:45.460 a lot more savings for these customers. What do you 0:20:45.460 --> 0:20:49.139 envision for the future of solar energy in Southeast Asia? 0:20:49.140 --> 0:20:52.680 And how does a solar ai fit into that vision? 0:20:52.830 --> 0:20:57.540 I really am hopeful that in the region, rooftop solar 0:20:57.550 --> 0:21:00.650 would be able to start to contribute a really significant 0:21:00.650 --> 0:21:03.140 share of the grid. Of course, there are some kind 0:21:03.140 --> 0:21:05.900 of teething problems which we would have to address as 0:21:05.900 --> 0:21:08.330 an industry over time in terms of kind of the 0:21:08.330 --> 0:21:11.729 dark curve of solar, which is when solar is generated 0:21:11.730 --> 0:21:14.910 typically in the daytime. But of course, there's still continued 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:16.240 energy usage and 0:21:16.510 --> 0:21:19.270 some of these problems will have to be addressed. But 0:21:19.270 --> 0:21:22.380 then I am really bullish that solar can play a 0:21:22.380 --> 0:21:25.580 really large role in this as a company. Our mission 0:21:25.580 --> 0:21:28.520 ultimately is really to make it as simple as possible 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.510 for any property owners to get solar. So firstly, starting 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:37.500 out from like an education and awareness perspective, thereafter, we 0:21:37.500 --> 0:21:39.880 have then, you know, six months ago, launched off 0:21:39.900 --> 0:21:43.640 for us to really eliminate that problem of like having 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.950 to pay a high upfront cost for rooftop solar. I mean, 0:21:46.950 --> 0:21:50.230 ultimately really drive this forward just to kind of take 0:21:50.230 --> 0:21:52.369 it every step of the way and like remove any 0:21:52.369 --> 0:21:56.580 barriers to entry for customers to get solar. Brilliant us. 0:21:56.590 --> 0:21:59.350