1 00:00:03,170 --> 00:00:05,468 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:10,859 --> 00:00:14,460 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. I'm Teresa Tang. I'm going to start this 3 00:00:14,460 --> 00:00:17,259 Speaker 1: episode by throwing out some keywords and I want you 4 00:00:17,260 --> 00:00:22,379 Speaker 1: to think about who in society I might be talking about. vital, 5 00:00:22,659 --> 00:00:24,809 Speaker 1: indispensable necessity. 6 00:00:25,170 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: Well, those are some ways the International Labor Organization describes 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:34,138 Speaker 1: migrant workers. Millions of people every year across national borders 8 00:00:34,139 --> 00:00:38,049 Speaker 1: in search of better work opportunities. Now these migrants play 9 00:00:38,049 --> 00:00:40,970 Speaker 1: a crucial role in the economic fabric of both their 10 00:00:40,970 --> 00:00:45,009 Speaker 1: host and their home countries. From filling labor shortages to 11 00:00:45,009 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: sending money home to their families, these men and women 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: are a critical part of the global economy, but the 13 00:00:50,598 --> 00:00:52,810 Speaker 1: path they take isn't an easy one. 14 00:00:53,119 --> 00:00:57,349 Speaker 1: CNA's digital team recently produced a special series called Far 15 00:00:57,349 --> 00:01:00,540 Speaker 1: From Home. It focused on migrant workers here in Southeast 16 00:01:00,540 --> 00:01:04,789 Speaker 1: Asia and explored what drives people to seek work outside 17 00:01:04,790 --> 00:01:08,870 Speaker 1: their native countries. It was led by senior correspondent Neville Ryder, 18 00:01:08,910 --> 00:01:11,389 Speaker 1: and he joins me today. Hi Neville, welcome back to 19 00:01:11,389 --> 00:01:16,980 Speaker 1: the podcast. Hi Teresa, always a pleasure. Migrants, the migrant story, 20 00:01:17,339 --> 00:01:20,429 Speaker 1: it's one we've come across before in headlines and you know, 21 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:22,899 Speaker 1: some of us see these people in daily life as well. 22 00:01:23,349 --> 00:01:26,989 Speaker 1: But there is something about these workers in Southeast Asia 23 00:01:26,989 --> 00:01:29,518 Speaker 1: that inspired you to look a little bit closer. Can 24 00:01:29,519 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: you tell me what piqued your interest? Well, the issue 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: of migrant worker has always intrigued me, particularly since I 26 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: live in Indonesia, a major migrant worker sending country, but 27 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: even in Indonesia, you rarely hear about the 4.8 million 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:46,849 Speaker 1: Indonesians working abroad. 29 00:01:47,430 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: They never made the news unless they're accused of crime, 30 00:01:51,370 --> 00:01:54,889 Speaker 1: face the death penalty, being abused or killed, but they 31 00:01:54,889 --> 00:01:58,529 Speaker 1: have very interesting stories to tell, stories about how they 32 00:01:58,529 --> 00:02:00,449 Speaker 1: only get to see their kids for a few weeks 33 00:02:00,449 --> 00:02:05,209 Speaker 1: every 1 or 2 years, stories of how overwhelming it 34 00:02:05,209 --> 00:02:07,790 Speaker 1: is for someone who never traveled more than a few 35 00:02:07,790 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: kilometers from their village and suddenly they have to 36 00:02:10,393 --> 00:02:13,313 Speaker 1: Live in a foreign country with a culture and language 37 00:02:13,313 --> 00:02:16,354 Speaker 1: that is they are vastly different from their own. So 38 00:02:16,354 --> 00:02:19,753 Speaker 1: there are endless amount of stories just waiting to be told. 39 00:02:19,994 --> 00:02:22,753 Speaker 1: You know, initially I wanted to focus on migrant workers 40 00:02:22,752 --> 00:02:26,113 Speaker 1: from Indonesia, but my editors convinced me to broaden the 41 00:02:26,113 --> 00:02:28,544 Speaker 1: scope a little bit to the whole of Southeast Asia. 42 00:02:28,752 --> 00:02:31,994 Speaker 1: And we realized early on that the issue is so 43 00:02:31,994 --> 00:02:33,313 Speaker 1: complex and multifaceted. 44 00:02:34,038 --> 00:02:37,929 Speaker 1: It needs to be a series, you know, starting from 45 00:02:37,929 --> 00:02:41,899 Speaker 1: where they come from, where they are headed, why some 46 00:02:41,899 --> 00:02:45,289 Speaker 1: chose to go there illegally, you know, and all the 47 00:02:45,288 --> 00:02:48,049 Speaker 1: way to what happened when they return and have to 48 00:02:48,050 --> 00:02:50,850 Speaker 1: reintegrate back to their original society. 49 00:02:51,070 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 1: And because I live in a sending country in Indonesia, 50 00:02:54,410 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: we need a second correspondent for the project, which is 51 00:02:57,570 --> 00:03:01,690 Speaker 1: my colleague who lives in KL, Rasinjit Bedi, to get 52 00:03:01,690 --> 00:03:05,008 Speaker 1: the perspective of the receiving country. Now Rashin is supposed 53 00:03:05,008 --> 00:03:08,250 Speaker 1: to be here today, but he's on a paternity leave 54 00:03:08,250 --> 00:03:10,130 Speaker 1: because he just had twins. Oh. 55 00:03:11,059 --> 00:03:15,889 Speaker 1: OK. That's a good excuse. OK. Southeast Asia, where we are, 56 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,330 Speaker 1: it's an interesting region when it comes to this issue 57 00:03:18,330 --> 00:03:21,728 Speaker 1: because it's part of the world that both sends and 58 00:03:21,729 --> 00:03:26,089 Speaker 1: also receives migrants, right? So let's talk about the push factors. 59 00:03:26,169 --> 00:03:29,330 Speaker 1: What are some of the main reasons people leave their 60 00:03:29,330 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: homes and their families behind? 61 00:03:31,839 --> 00:03:35,678 Speaker 1: Well, we interviewed migrant workers in Indonesia and the Philippines. 62 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:38,509 Speaker 1: What I can say is that their story is universal. 63 00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:41,009 Speaker 1: You want what is best for your family. 64 00:03:41,559 --> 00:03:45,100 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, for many in countries like Indonesia and the Philippines, 65 00:03:45,389 --> 00:03:49,899 Speaker 1: jobs are hard to come by, especially if you live 66 00:03:49,899 --> 00:03:53,509 Speaker 1: away from the big cities, especially if you only have 67 00:03:53,509 --> 00:03:56,350 Speaker 1: like a junior high school diploma to your name. The 68 00:03:56,350 --> 00:03:59,660 Speaker 1: only way to get decent paying jobs is to go overseas. 69 00:03:59,910 --> 00:04:02,259 Speaker 1: Now there's this one woman I met in the Philippines. 70 00:04:02,350 --> 00:04:05,990 Speaker 1: Her name is Gina Fabiano, and she lives right next. 71 00:04:06,085 --> 00:04:09,354 Speaker 1: To a landfill. The only work available is to be 72 00:04:09,354 --> 00:04:12,975 Speaker 1: trash pickers. She has 5 kids and she's the 2nd 73 00:04:12,975 --> 00:04:16,954 Speaker 1: oldest of 14 siblings. So she's kind of, she's kind 74 00:04:16,954 --> 00:04:19,674 Speaker 1: of the backbone of not only her immediate family, but 75 00:04:19,674 --> 00:04:22,954 Speaker 1: also for her brothers and sisters, and she kind of 76 00:04:22,954 --> 00:04:26,234 Speaker 1: like epitomizes the whole series, I think, but it's hard, 77 00:04:26,274 --> 00:04:28,394 Speaker 1: you know, she was making many times more as a 78 00:04:28,394 --> 00:04:30,464 Speaker 1: domestic helper in Saudi Arabia. 79 00:04:31,049 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: Then she would as a trash picker back home, but 80 00:04:34,209 --> 00:04:39,089 Speaker 1: her decision also come at a personal emotional cost for her. 81 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:40,850 Speaker 1: And here's my interview with Gina. 82 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,329 Speaker 1: The most difficult part was I was not able to 83 00:04:46,329 --> 00:04:49,118 Speaker 1: take care of my only daughter. All I could do 84 00:04:49,119 --> 00:04:52,130 Speaker 1: was call her on the phone and ask, What are 85 00:04:52,130 --> 00:04:56,700 Speaker 1: you doing now? Did you eat? Are you going to school? 86 00:04:57,369 --> 00:05:00,119 Speaker 1: But the girl I took care of in Saudi Arabia, 87 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,070 Speaker 1: I could tie her hair, feed her properly, tuck her 88 00:05:03,070 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: into bed. I was able to take care of her, 89 00:05:06,869 --> 00:05:10,269 Speaker 1: but I couldn't even care for my own kids. So 90 00:05:10,269 --> 00:05:13,950 Speaker 1: clearly there is the financial payoff for working overseas as 91 00:05:13,950 --> 00:05:16,709 Speaker 1: a migrant worker. Like you say, you can support your 92 00:05:16,709 --> 00:05:19,700 Speaker 1: family in a way that would otherwise really be impossible. 93 00:05:20,140 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: But then the cost of that opportunity can be immense, right? 94 00:05:24,799 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: Families essentially torn apart when a parent has to leave 95 00:05:28,359 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: for work. Yeah, migration is always tough, you know, for parents, 96 00:05:33,079 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: they miss the chance to watch their children grow up 97 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: or share important moments like birthdays, Christmas, or even first 98 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: day of school, graduation. 99 00:05:43,299 --> 00:05:46,089 Speaker 1: All sorts of things. And there's just this one woman 100 00:05:46,089 --> 00:05:49,859 Speaker 1: from Indonesia who after many years, she is still struggling 101 00:05:49,859 --> 00:05:53,019 Speaker 1: to get close to her daughter who she left when 102 00:05:53,220 --> 00:05:54,820 Speaker 1: the daughter was still a toddler. 103 00:05:55,428 --> 00:05:58,230 Speaker 1: There are also families who fell apart because of the migration, 104 00:05:58,329 --> 00:06:02,149 Speaker 1: you know, the migrant workers met someone else overseas or 105 00:06:02,149 --> 00:06:05,589 Speaker 1: perhaps the spouse back home, they met someone else, you know, 106 00:06:05,790 --> 00:06:10,029 Speaker 1: and the temptation gets stronger as years go by. Migration 107 00:06:10,029 --> 00:06:12,950 Speaker 1: kind of reshapes who you are as a person, you 108 00:06:12,950 --> 00:06:15,950 Speaker 1: feel less and less connected with your family back home 109 00:06:15,950 --> 00:06:19,238 Speaker 1: and more and more with your fellow migrant workers abroad. 110 00:06:19,670 --> 00:06:20,089 Speaker 1: And 111 00:06:20,510 --> 00:06:24,070 Speaker 1: Anisiddaya, who is a commissioner at the Indonesian Commission for 112 00:06:24,070 --> 00:06:27,660 Speaker 1: Human Rights, she is a longtime migrant workers' rights advocate. 113 00:06:27,910 --> 00:06:30,380 Speaker 1: She has seen it all, you know, and here's my 114 00:06:30,380 --> 00:06:31,018 Speaker 1: interview with her. 115 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,130 Speaker 1: Aside from the risk of human rights violations, there are 116 00:06:38,130 --> 00:06:41,769 Speaker 1: also social costs they have to pay for their decision 117 00:06:41,769 --> 00:06:46,049 Speaker 1: to go overseas as migrant workers. Their children are at 118 00:06:46,049 --> 00:06:49,410 Speaker 1: risk of having problems in their social lives. On the 119 00:06:49,410 --> 00:06:53,868 Speaker 1: other hand, there are problems like the disintegration of families. 120 00:06:54,209 --> 00:06:56,950 Speaker 1: And the same thing is happening in the Philippines, you know, 121 00:06:57,149 --> 00:07:01,390 Speaker 1: there is a huge personal, emotional and social cost that 122 00:07:01,390 --> 00:07:02,790 Speaker 1: comes with migration. 123 00:07:03,119 --> 00:07:06,260 Speaker 1: And it's not only the migrant workers who are paying 124 00:07:06,260 --> 00:07:10,649 Speaker 1: the price, their children also have to navigate the consequence 125 00:07:10,779 --> 00:07:15,130 Speaker 1: of not having one or sometimes both parents around, you know, 126 00:07:15,380 --> 00:07:18,059 Speaker 1: for some children, they are forced to grow up, become 127 00:07:18,059 --> 00:07:20,579 Speaker 1: the man of the house, you know, and take on 128 00:07:20,579 --> 00:07:24,220 Speaker 1: the responsibility of, you know, doing the chores, but there 129 00:07:24,220 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: are also children who struggle with the separation, and I 130 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,570 Speaker 1: spoke to Marvin Rima of Migrante Philippines. 131 00:07:32,230 --> 00:07:35,700 Speaker 1: He said without the guidance and structure of a normal household, 132 00:07:36,109 --> 00:07:41,059 Speaker 1: some children end up misbehaving, skipping schools, dropping out, running away, 133 00:07:41,230 --> 00:07:45,070 Speaker 1: and in extreme cases commit crimes. Here's my interview with 134 00:07:45,070 --> 00:07:47,790 Speaker 1: Marvin Rimas. They're children. 135 00:07:48,519 --> 00:07:52,579 Speaker 1: Uh, they don't have the parental guidance, especially from the mother. 136 00:07:53,570 --> 00:07:58,309 Speaker 1: So, uh, their mother is working abroad, their daughter, their 137 00:07:58,309 --> 00:08:03,309 Speaker 1: children's uh experiencing the separation anxiety and. 138 00:08:04,109 --> 00:08:08,769 Speaker 1: Anxiety, depression came in to them, then they're looking for 139 00:08:08,779 --> 00:08:14,220 Speaker 1: for something that they can release or can loosen their depression, 140 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:17,619 Speaker 1: so most of them are having uh drugs. 141 00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:27,250 Speaker 1: Use, um, uh, violence, sexual sexual exploitation, or sexual abuse. 142 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:30,529 Speaker 1: One part of the story, of course, is money, and 143 00:08:30,529 --> 00:08:34,299 Speaker 1: a lot of money is involved here. Remittances to the Philippines, 144 00:08:34,349 --> 00:08:38,020 Speaker 1: for example, those amount to about $40 billion US dollars 145 00:08:38,020 --> 00:08:42,130 Speaker 1: a year. That's 9.2% of the country's GDP. That's incredible. 146 00:08:42,419 --> 00:08:43,700 Speaker 1: And another angle that 147 00:08:43,745 --> 00:08:47,015 Speaker 1: You looked at Neville, are emerging markets, new markets that 148 00:08:47,015 --> 00:08:51,495 Speaker 1: are attracting migrant workers. Tell me why this change and 149 00:08:51,495 --> 00:08:55,656 Speaker 1: our conditions, you know, better in these quote unquote new countries? Well, 150 00:08:55,815 --> 00:09:01,135 Speaker 1: since the 1970s, Gulf states like UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar 151 00:09:01,495 --> 00:09:04,145 Speaker 1: have been the go to countries for migrant workers from 152 00:09:04,145 --> 00:09:06,656 Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. There's a huge demand for 153 00:09:07,091 --> 00:09:11,691 Speaker 1: laborers, construction workers and domestic helpers there. And because there 154 00:09:11,692 --> 00:09:15,682 Speaker 1: are oil rich countries, they're all willing to pay top dollars. 155 00:09:15,812 --> 00:09:18,841 Speaker 1: But after a series of abuse cases, some of which 156 00:09:19,052 --> 00:09:24,091 Speaker 1: ended with migrant workers being brutally killed, more and more 157 00:09:24,091 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: people are becoming reluctant of going to the Middle East. 158 00:09:27,091 --> 00:09:29,562 Speaker 1: At the same time, you have countries in East Asia. 159 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,229 Speaker 1: With aging population and declining birth rates before these countries 160 00:09:34,229 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: didn't feel it was necessary to bring in migrant workers. 161 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,789 Speaker 1: But now, with the aging population, with declining birth rates, 162 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: there is a growing demand for caregivers, for example, and 163 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:46,450 Speaker 1: they also try to 164 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:49,968 Speaker 1: Make it easier for couples to hire migrant workers as 165 00:09:49,969 --> 00:09:53,119 Speaker 1: nannies so they can have children without sacrificing their career, 166 00:09:53,289 --> 00:09:56,729 Speaker 1: but those opportunities in East Asia is still very limited. 167 00:09:56,890 --> 00:10:00,849 Speaker 1: There is a strict quota imposed by countries like South 168 00:10:00,849 --> 00:10:03,049 Speaker 1: Korea or territories like Taiwan. 169 00:10:03,419 --> 00:10:07,569 Speaker 1: And everyone from Indonesia and the Philippines is basically competing 170 00:10:07,570 --> 00:10:10,130 Speaker 1: to make the cut, basically. So you have to be 171 00:10:10,130 --> 00:10:13,919 Speaker 1: very skillful, have long experience in other countries if you 172 00:10:13,919 --> 00:10:18,049 Speaker 1: want to work in these countries and territories. Middle Eastern 173 00:10:18,049 --> 00:10:22,929 Speaker 1: countries don't have such requirements and quotas in place. So 174 00:10:22,929 --> 00:10:25,919 Speaker 1: there are still migrant workers going there. 175 00:10:26,599 --> 00:10:29,909 Speaker 1: Because they only have a junior high school diploma, for example, 176 00:10:30,119 --> 00:10:33,239 Speaker 1: which is why although the numbers are declining, they are 177 00:10:33,239 --> 00:10:37,549 Speaker 1: still the top destination countries for migrant workers, especially inexperienced 178 00:10:37,549 --> 00:10:41,119 Speaker 1: and low skilled migrants. And also after some pressure from 179 00:10:41,119 --> 00:10:44,479 Speaker 1: Indonesia and the Philippines and other sending countries, these Gulf 180 00:10:44,479 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: states promised that they will change their way. 181 00:10:47,239 --> 00:10:50,530 Speaker 1: To provide better protection for migrant workers, but is it 182 00:10:50,530 --> 00:10:52,330 Speaker 1: enough to turn the tide, you know, we'll just have 183 00:10:52,330 --> 00:10:55,119 Speaker 1: to see. I know you have a baby at home. 184 00:10:55,289 --> 00:10:57,890 Speaker 1: I have two young children as well, and I'm raising 185 00:10:57,890 --> 00:11:01,010 Speaker 1: them here in Singapore, and migrant workers are people we 186 00:11:01,010 --> 00:11:04,728 Speaker 1: come across every single day. My daughter, now she'll say 187 00:11:04,729 --> 00:11:07,090 Speaker 1: hi to them and for Christmas we donate to a 188 00:11:07,090 --> 00:11:10,329 Speaker 1: charity that actually provides some supplies to them over the 189 00:11:10,330 --> 00:11:13,849 Speaker 1: holidays and you know, there's a level of respect and 190 00:11:13,849 --> 00:11:16,609 Speaker 1: this gratitude that comes naturally to my kids now. 191 00:11:16,929 --> 00:11:19,728 Speaker 1: But that's not the case for many people, and we 192 00:11:19,729 --> 00:11:22,729 Speaker 1: know migrants are often looked down upon, and I know 193 00:11:22,729 --> 00:11:25,530 Speaker 1: from your reporting you found that some migrants are trying 194 00:11:25,530 --> 00:11:28,968 Speaker 1: to change that perception. They're seeking to be active in 195 00:11:28,969 --> 00:11:31,968 Speaker 1: their adopted communities, which I find very interesting. Can you 196 00:11:31,969 --> 00:11:32,849 Speaker 1: tell us about that? 197 00:11:33,729 --> 00:11:38,770 Speaker 1: Actually, it was our KL correspondent Rashin, who was helping 198 00:11:38,770 --> 00:11:40,968 Speaker 1: that part of the series, but, but you're right, I mean, 199 00:11:41,090 --> 00:11:44,570 Speaker 1: there are often looked down upon. They have endured like 200 00:11:44,570 --> 00:11:47,890 Speaker 1: discrimination and racism from the second they arrive in their 201 00:11:47,890 --> 00:11:51,130 Speaker 1: host country sometimes, which is why Rashfin and I agreed 202 00:11:51,130 --> 00:11:54,130 Speaker 1: that it was very easy for us to speak to 203 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: migrant workers who have returned home. 204 00:11:56,859 --> 00:11:59,140 Speaker 1: Like when they came back to Indonesia or when they 205 00:11:59,140 --> 00:12:01,659 Speaker 1: come back to the Philippines, compared to those who are 206 00:12:01,659 --> 00:12:05,978 Speaker 1: still abroad, because they're here in Indonesia or the Philippines, 207 00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:09,978 Speaker 1: they're free to speak their minds openly, but once they're 208 00:12:09,979 --> 00:12:13,409 Speaker 1: in their host country, they're very reluctant to speak, you know, 209 00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:16,450 Speaker 1: fearing what they say or even, or even the fact 210 00:12:16,450 --> 00:12:19,070 Speaker 1: that they're talking to a journalist might cost them their 211 00:12:19,070 --> 00:12:21,539 Speaker 1: job or their visa, you know, which is why they 212 00:12:21,539 --> 00:12:24,429 Speaker 1: tend to form communities, you know, because of the 213 00:12:24,830 --> 00:12:27,950 Speaker 1: Discrimination and everything that they have endured, they tend to 214 00:12:27,950 --> 00:12:31,390 Speaker 1: form communities within themselves, so they can basically interact and 215 00:12:31,390 --> 00:12:35,049 Speaker 1: support each other. And over time, these communities and these 216 00:12:35,049 --> 00:12:39,190 Speaker 1: groups started doing charity works, and not only for members 217 00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:42,390 Speaker 1: of their own community, which is how they started, but 218 00:12:42,390 --> 00:12:48,020 Speaker 1: to those less fortunate, they see around them regardless of race, religion, 219 00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:51,789 Speaker 1: immigration status or where they come from. That is truly amazing, 220 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,390 Speaker 1: because here's a group of migrant workers. 221 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,260 Speaker 1: Getting together on what little free time that they have, 222 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: giving back to the community, doing charitable works, even though 223 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,950 Speaker 1: they don't make a lot, even though they come from 224 00:13:05,950 --> 00:13:09,228 Speaker 1: a country where poverty is even more rampant, you know, 225 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: and Rashin talked to one of them, Jackallo Cabello, they're 226 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,159 Speaker 1: not doing this for publicity. 227 00:13:15,340 --> 00:13:18,890 Speaker 1: Or to advocate for some greater cause, like to change 228 00:13:18,890 --> 00:13:22,169 Speaker 1: perception or fight stigma towards migrant workers. They just want 229 00:13:22,169 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: to do it out of the goodness of their own heart. 230 00:13:24,969 --> 00:13:28,690 Speaker 1: And that's really touching for me. Here's Rushin interview with 231 00:13:28,690 --> 00:13:29,340 Speaker 1: Jack Lew. 232 00:13:29,770 --> 00:13:33,049 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I feel empowered and I feel 233 00:13:33,049 --> 00:13:35,969 Speaker 2: so blessed because I am not in that situation. 234 00:13:37,010 --> 00:13:42,179 Speaker 2: Their situation makes me more motivation to work harder so 235 00:13:42,179 --> 00:13:47,010 Speaker 2: I can give myself and my family a better future. 236 00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:50,619 Speaker 2: It's like, we like to help people like homeless, we 237 00:13:50,619 --> 00:13:52,659 Speaker 2: like to share our blessings. 238 00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:56,210 Speaker 1: It really is so inspiring that people with so little 239 00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:59,429 Speaker 1: are still willing to give. Yeah, I've never employed a 240 00:13:59,429 --> 00:14:02,099 Speaker 1: domestic helper. I don't know if you have, but I 241 00:14:02,099 --> 00:14:04,728 Speaker 1: know people who have, and the day that their helpers 242 00:14:04,729 --> 00:14:07,900 Speaker 1: leave is really a sad one because they've become part 243 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:08,049 Speaker 1: of 244 00:14:08,169 --> 00:14:11,729 Speaker 1: family after so many years. So you talk about migrant 245 00:14:11,729 --> 00:14:13,848 Speaker 1: workers who go back to their native countries, who might 246 00:14:13,849 --> 00:14:17,599 Speaker 1: go back to Indonesia. What's the most difficult part about 247 00:14:17,599 --> 00:14:21,570 Speaker 1: that reintegration and our governments doing anything to give them 248 00:14:21,570 --> 00:14:23,049 Speaker 1: that support that they need? 249 00:14:23,869 --> 00:14:27,349 Speaker 1: Actually, this is something that I've never realized until I'm 250 00:14:27,349 --> 00:14:30,510 Speaker 1: doing the series that for people who, especially people who 251 00:14:30,510 --> 00:14:33,630 Speaker 1: have been away for a long time, fitting back into 252 00:14:33,630 --> 00:14:36,950 Speaker 1: their original community can be just as hard as when 253 00:14:36,950 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: they first migrated to another country. 254 00:14:39,780 --> 00:14:42,099 Speaker 1: You know, in a foreign country, they're used to being 255 00:14:42,099 --> 00:14:45,260 Speaker 1: active and busy doing their work and they're used to 256 00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:47,780 Speaker 1: live in a big crowded city and suddenly they have 257 00:14:47,780 --> 00:14:51,419 Speaker 1: to go back to their quiet, remote village with very 258 00:14:51,419 --> 00:14:54,460 Speaker 1: little thing to do. And especially if you've been away 259 00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:57,380 Speaker 1: for a long time, things are not always the same 260 00:14:57,380 --> 00:15:01,330 Speaker 1: as when you left them, you know, people age, people change. 261 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,659 Speaker 1: The migrant workers themselves, they, they have changed, you know, 262 00:15:04,780 --> 00:15:08,219 Speaker 1: they have picked up an accent, for example, they still 263 00:15:08,219 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: use terms and words that nobody has used in decades, 264 00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:14,549 Speaker 1: you know, and they got teased a lot, you know, and, 265 00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:17,570 Speaker 1: and back home, no one understands what they have been through. 266 00:15:17,780 --> 00:15:20,539 Speaker 1: They were almost round the clock with very little time 267 00:15:20,539 --> 00:15:24,330 Speaker 1: for themselves. Sometimes because they need to send money home, 268 00:15:24,539 --> 00:15:28,500 Speaker 1: they starve themselves or have to live in a very 269 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:29,260 Speaker 1: poor condition. 270 00:15:29,549 --> 00:15:32,450 Speaker 1: And when they get back home, the house is basically 271 00:15:32,450 --> 00:15:36,039 Speaker 1: still the same dilapidated wooden house that they live in 272 00:15:36,039 --> 00:15:37,169 Speaker 1: when she left and. 273 00:15:37,669 --> 00:15:40,719 Speaker 1: But, but your husband is wearing gold necklaces now, your 274 00:15:40,719 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: kids have new phones, you know, so it can be 275 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: mentally exhausting for them seeing this. And the only way 276 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: to escape all this is to find work, you know, 277 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: to keep yourself busy, but there's no work available, which 278 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,489 Speaker 1: brings me to the next issue, which is financial literacy. 279 00:15:56,809 --> 00:16:01,190 Speaker 1: Financial literacy is important because first, for many of these people, 280 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,210 Speaker 1: they have never seen this kind of money before. And 281 00:16:04,210 --> 00:16:06,830 Speaker 1: the instinct that they have is to spend. 282 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,030 Speaker 1: What is coming their way, like there's no tomorrow. So 283 00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:16,150 Speaker 1: they spend it on things, on vacations, on cars, on 284 00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:18,349 Speaker 1: all these, all these things, because they don't know how 285 00:16:18,349 --> 00:16:21,190 Speaker 1: to manage their money. It is very common for migrant 286 00:16:21,190 --> 00:16:25,390 Speaker 1: workers to come back and fall back into poverty once 287 00:16:25,390 --> 00:16:29,070 Speaker 1: they return back to their countries. But the government of 288 00:16:29,070 --> 00:16:32,909 Speaker 1: Indonesia and the Philippines are starting to do something about this. 289 00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: They have come up with grants, soft loans, training. 290 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,989 Speaker 1: So they can start their own businesses, but of course, 291 00:16:40,109 --> 00:16:43,460 Speaker 1: their experts are criticizing this because they give so little 292 00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:47,190 Speaker 1: to so few beneficiaries and not everyone is fit to 293 00:16:47,190 --> 00:16:48,270 Speaker 1: be an entrepreneur. 294 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:52,789 Speaker 1: You know, some have tried and failed. For some, it's 295 00:16:52,789 --> 00:16:55,549 Speaker 1: just like easier for them to just like look for jobs, 296 00:16:55,630 --> 00:16:58,590 Speaker 1: you know, but that is also not available. And as 297 00:16:58,590 --> 00:17:03,380 Speaker 1: a result, you have people re migrating to other countries, 298 00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:05,939 Speaker 1: and experts say the best way is for the government 299 00:17:05,939 --> 00:17:07,550 Speaker 1: to provide more jobs. 300 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: Provide reskilling programs. So, so migration becomes a choice for 301 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: them and not a necessity. So many dimensions to this story, Neville, 302 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:21,079 Speaker 1: what an insightful and humanizing series. Thank you so much 303 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:24,380 Speaker 1: for your insights today. Welcome. And Rashman, we missed you. 304 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:28,349 Speaker 1: Now Neville and Rashman worked on a special series on 305 00:17:28,349 --> 00:17:31,079 Speaker 1: migrant workers from Southeast Asia, and you can find all 306 00:17:31,079 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: of their reports on CNA.Asia. There are also TV episodes 307 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: of CNA Correspondent every Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. Singapore, Hong 308 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,469 Speaker 1: Kong time, and you can find those on YouTube as well. 309 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: I'm Teresa Tang, thanks for joining me this week. The 310 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,079 Speaker 1: team behind this week's episode is Faiz, Clara Ong, Tiffany Ung, 311 00:17:49,199 --> 00:17:52,229 Speaker 1: Junai Johari, and Craig Dale. Bye for now.