1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: This is a C. N. A. Podcast. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:04,220 Speaker 1: I saw somebody 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,790 Speaker 1: lying on the road the Washington costume 4 00:00:16,010 --> 00:00:18,770 Speaker 1: a night that was supposed to be full of Halloween 5 00:00:18,770 --> 00:00:22,029 Speaker 1: revelry turned into a national tragedy. 6 00:00:22,820 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: One of those in the crowd was young whom you 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:26,780 Speaker 1: just heard there. 8 00:00:28,470 --> 00:00:30,970 Speaker 1: The young man wiped tears from his eyes as he 9 00:00:30,970 --> 00:00:34,909 Speaker 1: recalled the horrors of the crowd crush in Taiwan souls 10 00:00:34,909 --> 00:00:36,260 Speaker 1: international district. 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,909 Speaker 1: He survived, but more than 150 others didn't. 12 00:00:43,390 --> 00:00:47,300 Speaker 1: Investigators scoured the debris littering the narrow alleyway where most 13 00:00:47,300 --> 00:00:48,550 Speaker 1: of the victims died 14 00:00:49,150 --> 00:00:54,670 Speaker 1: clutching cameras looking for clues to answer questions were all 15 00:00:54,670 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: asking 16 00:00:56,070 --> 00:00:59,860 Speaker 1: how could so many people cram into such a tiny space? 17 00:01:00,510 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: Didn't authorities anticipate a potential overcrowding problem. 18 00:01:05,150 --> 00:01:07,590 Speaker 1: And how is a nation in mourning? Going to get 19 00:01:07,590 --> 00:01:11,660 Speaker 1: past the senseless loss of so many young lives. 20 00:01:17,830 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: On today's edition. We speak to lim eun sook who 21 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,030 Speaker 1: headed straight to the scene off a flight from Singapore 22 00:01:24,730 --> 00:01:27,789 Speaker 1: joins me now. Hello Theresa. 23 00:01:28,910 --> 00:01:31,490 Speaker 1: There was a mad rush to cover this story because 24 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:34,809 Speaker 1: you had actually just left Seoul a day before and 25 00:01:34,810 --> 00:01:38,430 Speaker 1: you were in Singapore when the story broke. Where exactly 26 00:01:38,430 --> 00:01:41,630 Speaker 1: were you tell us about events leading up to you 27 00:01:41,630 --> 00:01:44,850 Speaker 1: arriving on scene. Well, yes, I was, I was in 28 00:01:44,850 --> 00:01:47,890 Speaker 1: Singapore on saturday for the C. N. A retreat, which 29 00:01:47,890 --> 00:01:50,270 Speaker 1: was going to start on monday and I was really 30 00:01:50,270 --> 00:01:52,530 Speaker 1: looking forward to that because this was my first time 31 00:01:52,530 --> 00:01:56,090 Speaker 1: back in Singapore in about three years since the pandemic outbreak. 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Now I had dinner in Singapore on saturday and I 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: went to sleep before midnight. But slightly after midnight I 34 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,820 Speaker 1: started getting messages from colleagues saying that 35 00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:09,389 Speaker 1: an accident had happened at a Taiwan. But at that 36 00:02:09,389 --> 00:02:12,290 Speaker 1: time it was estimated that about 30 to 40 people 37 00:02:12,290 --> 00:02:15,610 Speaker 1: or so had a cardiac arrest and they were receiving treatment. 38 00:02:15,620 --> 00:02:18,060 Speaker 1: Now I saw that and because I was in Singapore 39 00:02:18,060 --> 00:02:20,369 Speaker 1: I thought okay I can't do much now. I'll monitor 40 00:02:20,370 --> 00:02:22,230 Speaker 1: the news in the morning and I admit I went 41 00:02:22,230 --> 00:02:25,230 Speaker 1: back to sleep but around four o'clock in the morning 42 00:02:25,230 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: I had more messages popping out my phone, my sister 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,660 Speaker 1: messaged me and she even 44 00:02:29,669 --> 00:02:32,620 Speaker 1: called me saying that this was getting really serious that 45 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:35,650 Speaker 1: more than 100 people have died and more than 100 46 00:02:35,660 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: injured including foreigners. And that's when I thought okay I 47 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,389 Speaker 1: gotta go back to Seoul and so I tried my 48 00:02:41,389 --> 00:02:44,450 Speaker 1: luck at the changi airport. I got my bosses to 49 00:02:44,450 --> 00:02:47,450 Speaker 1: approve this. I went straight to changi airport from the 50 00:02:47,450 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: hotel because the earliest flight out from Singapore was at 51 00:02:50,650 --> 00:02:53,370 Speaker 1: eight a.m. And I needed to get on that flight. 52 00:02:53,610 --> 00:02:56,139 Speaker 1: I arrived at the airport and there was this really 53 00:02:56,139 --> 00:02:58,290 Speaker 1: nice manager there who told me that he put me 54 00:02:58,290 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: on standby and so I had to wait until 725 55 00:03:02,210 --> 00:03:04,930 Speaker 1: when the gates closed before I was told that there 56 00:03:04,930 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: was one seat available and that's when I checked in 57 00:03:08,250 --> 00:03:11,370 Speaker 1: ran to get that flight because I knew I had 58 00:03:11,370 --> 00:03:13,570 Speaker 1: to get there otherwise the next one was a few 59 00:03:13,570 --> 00:03:14,940 Speaker 1: hours away and so 60 00:03:15,169 --> 00:03:17,090 Speaker 1: I tried to get some sleep on the plane because 61 00:03:17,090 --> 00:03:19,260 Speaker 1: I knew that was going to be a very long day, 62 00:03:19,260 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: a long week because as soon as arrived I went 63 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,269 Speaker 1: straight to eat Taiwan, the same site from the airport 64 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,990 Speaker 1: and here's an excerpt from that live cross that you 65 00:03:27,990 --> 00:03:29,750 Speaker 1: did as soon as you got there 66 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,190 Speaker 1: CNN's joins us live from so long. So you are 67 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,670 Speaker 1: actually positioned where the worst of the crush took place. 68 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,580 Speaker 1: What's happening at the scene now? Well yes, I am 69 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:44,820 Speaker 1: here in Tijuana right now and um as you can 70 00:03:44,820 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: see they're just local reporters, you're all covering this as 71 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: this is a national tragedy for south Korea. And over 72 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,390 Speaker 1: there in front of where the local reporters are is 73 00:03:54,390 --> 00:03:58,030 Speaker 1: that little alley, that alley where thousands of young south 74 00:03:58,030 --> 00:04:00,270 Speaker 1: Koreans who are apparently partying. 75 00:04:02,810 --> 00:04:06,980 Speaker 1: Tell us about the Taiwan district. About that alley in particular. 76 00:04:06,990 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: Our colleague julie you, she is from Seoul and she 77 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,530 Speaker 1: says her family home is five minutes away. Give us 78 00:04:12,530 --> 00:04:15,530 Speaker 1: some context. Well, yes, I mean it is a place 79 00:04:15,530 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: for me where I've gone so many times since I 80 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: was a teenager because it used to be a shopping 81 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,770 Speaker 1: area where Koreans or korean americans or anybody could go 82 00:04:24,770 --> 00:04:28,950 Speaker 1: to and buy say american style clothes, fashion goods since 83 00:04:28,950 --> 00:04:31,930 Speaker 1: the main U. S. Military army was located around there 84 00:04:31,945 --> 00:04:34,565 Speaker 1: and in fact even now I meet a lot of 85 00:04:34,565 --> 00:04:37,544 Speaker 1: friends there, go over there on weekends when I'm craving 86 00:04:37,545 --> 00:04:40,554 Speaker 1: for international cuisine. I want to go to a bar there. 87 00:04:40,555 --> 00:04:44,245 Speaker 1: And so I've walked that alley the same alley down 88 00:04:44,245 --> 00:04:47,565 Speaker 1: and up so many times over the last few decades 89 00:04:47,575 --> 00:04:50,875 Speaker 1: it is narrow, it's only about less than four m 90 00:04:50,885 --> 00:04:54,315 Speaker 1: wide and on each side there are also little shops 91 00:04:54,315 --> 00:04:58,805 Speaker 1: that sells souvenirs or bags during the daytime. At night 92 00:04:58,805 --> 00:05:00,975 Speaker 1: they close and make way for the people to pass 93 00:05:00,975 --> 00:05:01,585 Speaker 1: by 94 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: now on nights that I've been there and that includes 95 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,109 Speaker 1: previous Halloween nights. The whole detail and area will be 96 00:05:08,110 --> 00:05:11,409 Speaker 1: packed when you come out of this detail on subway 97 00:05:11,410 --> 00:05:15,790 Speaker 1: station that's right in front of the Hamiltons hotel. You 98 00:05:15,790 --> 00:05:19,050 Speaker 1: walk a few meters and there you have this narrow alley, 99 00:05:19,060 --> 00:05:21,820 Speaker 1: you walk up that narrow alley and you come to 100 00:05:21,820 --> 00:05:25,140 Speaker 1: this intersection and that's the main intersection where that whole 101 00:05:25,140 --> 00:05:28,650 Speaker 1: line of street has bars and restaurants and that's where 102 00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:30,500 Speaker 1: a lot of people usually go to. 103 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,590 Speaker 1: Now I think that street was just so packed that 104 00:05:34,589 --> 00:05:37,969 Speaker 1: night that people started to move away from there and 105 00:05:37,970 --> 00:05:41,260 Speaker 1: down to that narrow alley and with the loud music 106 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:43,739 Speaker 1: blaring from all corners of the street and people who 107 00:05:43,740 --> 00:05:46,470 Speaker 1: were standing at the bottom of that alley didn't really 108 00:05:46,470 --> 00:05:49,420 Speaker 1: know what was happening and that the main street was 109 00:05:49,420 --> 00:05:52,750 Speaker 1: fully packed because we do hear from people saying that 110 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,940 Speaker 1: they heard chance of people saying go down go down 111 00:05:56,150 --> 00:05:59,250 Speaker 1: telling people to go down further because that main street 112 00:05:59,250 --> 00:06:02,529 Speaker 1: was just so packed. But I think people below could 113 00:06:02,529 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: not hear them because they were still music blaring and 114 00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:07,650 Speaker 1: it was just so loud and people were saying they 115 00:06:07,650 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: couldn't even hear the person next to him 116 00:06:10,250 --> 00:06:13,849 Speaker 1: with all that happening. Perhaps someone just fell, tripped, we 117 00:06:13,850 --> 00:06:17,500 Speaker 1: don't know and very soon it was like dominoes, witnesses 118 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:21,180 Speaker 1: were telling me. And so standing at that alley I 119 00:06:21,180 --> 00:06:23,710 Speaker 1: think a lot of the people below that alley were 120 00:06:23,710 --> 00:06:27,169 Speaker 1: literally crushed because when the police came they said they 121 00:06:27,170 --> 00:06:28,850 Speaker 1: couldn't pull them out because they were just so 122 00:06:28,865 --> 00:06:31,705 Speaker 1: many bodies on top of each other. There were even 123 00:06:31,705 --> 00:06:34,515 Speaker 1: clubs that were still open and there were people inside 124 00:06:34,515 --> 00:06:37,665 Speaker 1: dancing and partying while all of this was going on 125 00:06:37,665 --> 00:06:40,935 Speaker 1: outside because they had no idea that this incident had 126 00:06:40,935 --> 00:06:43,495 Speaker 1: taken place. And in fact there's some people who were 127 00:06:43,495 --> 00:06:46,445 Speaker 1: saying they only found out about this the next morning 128 00:06:46,445 --> 00:06:47,465 Speaker 1: on the news. 129 00:06:47,860 --> 00:06:51,350 Speaker 1: You talk about a metro station that's really just a 130 00:06:51,350 --> 00:06:55,390 Speaker 1: stone's throw away masses of people just kept arriving without 131 00:06:55,390 --> 00:06:58,140 Speaker 1: any sort of restrictions in place. Can you tell us 132 00:06:58,140 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: about any sort of security personnel that were there? 133 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,789 Speaker 1: No, there were no security personnel but this detail in 134 00:07:04,790 --> 00:07:08,110 Speaker 1: station is just right in front of that Hamilton's hotel 135 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,950 Speaker 1: is a few meters away from that narrow alley and 136 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:16,390 Speaker 1: according to reports over 130,000 passengers used that detail in 137 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: subway station that one day alone just at one station. 138 00:07:20,810 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: But there are two other subway stations nearby. And data 139 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,180 Speaker 1: shows that a total of about 200,000 people were there 140 00:07:28,180 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: that night. 141 00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:32,150 Speaker 1: Now, the year before that apparently there were only about 142 00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:36,050 Speaker 1: 90,000 total. And that's why the police are saying that 143 00:07:36,050 --> 00:07:40,250 Speaker 1: they were expecting about 100,000 people that night. Now, some 144 00:07:40,250 --> 00:07:43,470 Speaker 1: experts here were saying that the subway station should not 145 00:07:43,470 --> 00:07:46,450 Speaker 1: have allowed people to get off that subway stop since 146 00:07:46,450 --> 00:07:47,970 Speaker 1: they knew that they were just going to be so 147 00:07:47,970 --> 00:07:50,530 Speaker 1: many people that night. It was the first Halloween since 148 00:07:50,530 --> 00:07:52,650 Speaker 1: there were no restrictions on this pandemic. 149 00:07:52,860 --> 00:07:56,140 Speaker 1: And also apart from the subway, there are also others 150 00:07:56,140 --> 00:07:58,860 Speaker 1: who came in busses, private cars. And in fact, one 151 00:07:58,860 --> 00:08:01,910 Speaker 1: taxi driver was telling the local media here that he 152 00:08:01,910 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: warned a 20 year old young female passenger not to 153 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,940 Speaker 1: go because he was going to get dangerous. But she 154 00:08:08,940 --> 00:08:10,980 Speaker 1: got off detail on that day. And so I think 155 00:08:10,980 --> 00:08:13,780 Speaker 1: people realized if you've been to e tailing in the past, 156 00:08:13,790 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: you know what it's going to be like and you 157 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: know how packed he was going to be. 158 00:08:17,890 --> 00:08:21,140 Speaker 1: As you say, it was the first unrestricted Halloween event 159 00:08:21,150 --> 00:08:25,260 Speaker 1: in that district in three years after covid curbs were lifted, 160 00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:28,540 Speaker 1: masks didn't have to be warned. So it's not surprising 161 00:08:28,540 --> 00:08:31,350 Speaker 1: that young people were out in these huge numbers because 162 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: they were celebrating in more ways than one. Right? But 163 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,770 Speaker 1: the costumes they added to the confusion, didn't they? Because 164 00:08:37,780 --> 00:08:41,790 Speaker 1: some actually mistook a police officer as a partygoer and 165 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: ignored warnings. 166 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:46,179 Speaker 1: Yes, that's what we're hearing. Some ministers were saying that 167 00:08:46,179 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: when they saw the firefighters, ambulances, the police, they just 168 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,620 Speaker 1: thought that they were just one of them in those 169 00:08:52,620 --> 00:08:56,569 Speaker 1: costumes and when the police were blowing their whistles, they 170 00:08:56,570 --> 00:08:58,620 Speaker 1: all thought it was the same thing. They didn't take 171 00:08:58,630 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: him seriously. And that's why it was very difficult and 172 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,340 Speaker 1: more difficult for the police and firefighters who were actually 173 00:09:05,340 --> 00:09:07,910 Speaker 1: there to be able to get to the scene. 174 00:09:08,059 --> 00:09:11,180 Speaker 1: And also because this whole place was just so packed 175 00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:14,660 Speaker 1: the ambulances, the fire busses and all, They couldn't get 176 00:09:14,660 --> 00:09:17,339 Speaker 1: to the scene on time. And there's literally a police 177 00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: station in front of Hamilton's hotel, a fire station, there's 178 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,390 Speaker 1: two just next to that and yet they couldn't get 179 00:09:23,390 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: their way there on time to save those lives. 180 00:09:26,215 --> 00:09:28,605 Speaker 1: A few days ago, I went to this gym where 181 00:09:28,605 --> 00:09:31,115 Speaker 1: there were all the items that they have found around 182 00:09:31,125 --> 00:09:35,005 Speaker 1: Setiawan and you could see that there was a police uniforms, 183 00:09:35,015 --> 00:09:37,755 Speaker 1: a police cap. And so there were actually people wearing 184 00:09:37,755 --> 00:09:40,305 Speaker 1: those costumes and that's why a lot of people just 185 00:09:40,304 --> 00:09:42,265 Speaker 1: thought that they were just one of those out there 186 00:09:42,265 --> 00:09:45,965 Speaker 1: having a good time on Halloween night. At least 20 187 00:09:45,965 --> 00:09:50,005 Speaker 1: foreigners from 15 different countries died that night. And it 188 00:09:50,005 --> 00:09:53,150 Speaker 1: really is so tragic when young lives are cut short. 189 00:09:53,790 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: Stay with us up next on CNN correspondent more with 190 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: libyan officials have apologized in an attempt to quell public outrage. 191 00:10:01,170 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: How could police be so unprepared for the crowd? We'll 192 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,900 Speaker 1: talk about that after this. 193 00:10:15,690 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Stephen chow and I host the new season 194 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,809 Speaker 1: of our podcast Heart of the matter, join me in 195 00:10:21,809 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: getting right to the heart of the headlines as we 196 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,390 Speaker 1: speak with experts and newsmakers to delve deep into the 197 00:10:27,390 --> 00:10:31,070 Speaker 1: most talked about news developments. Look out for our episodes 198 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. 199 00:10:40,820 --> 00:10:44,830 Speaker 1: Welcome back to CNN correspondent. We had an excellent guest 200 00:10:44,830 --> 00:10:47,730 Speaker 1: on our news bulletin, Millard Hogan E of the School 201 00:10:47,730 --> 00:10:50,830 Speaker 1: of Civil and Environmental Engineering at the University of New 202 00:10:50,830 --> 00:10:54,110 Speaker 1: South Wales and he talked about the mechanics of what 203 00:10:54,110 --> 00:10:58,420 Speaker 1: happens when people are packed so densely together. And he said, 204 00:10:58,429 --> 00:11:02,130 Speaker 1: misbehavior doesn't need to happen for tragedy to strike. Take 205 00:11:02,130 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: a listen 206 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 2: when you're talking about crowds of hundreds and thousands of people, 207 00:11:07,490 --> 00:11:11,330 Speaker 2: when you reach that critical levels of density, the effect 208 00:11:11,330 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: that it has is that it makes the crowd act 209 00:11:14,929 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 2: like a continuous body like a fluid, no individual in 210 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 2: the crowd is essentially in charge of their actions or 211 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,030 Speaker 2: their movements. 212 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,980 Speaker 2: No person can decide where to go or how to react. 213 00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: They are part of a continuous body that moves around 214 00:11:29,250 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 2: and in any moment of instability or turbulence and propagate 215 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,309 Speaker 2: through the crowd and people will not be able to 216 00:11:35,309 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 2: stop that in those circumstances. When it happens, there is 217 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,910 Speaker 2: very little or next to nothing that people can do. 218 00:11:43,570 --> 00:11:46,650 Speaker 1: You took the mayor of Seoul has apologized because people 219 00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: are angry. He admitted that there's actually no proper crowd 220 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: management policy in place. And even if more police were 221 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,220 Speaker 1: deployed that night, they wouldn't have known what to do. 222 00:11:56,230 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 1: How can that be? Especially given that South Korea is 223 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,250 Speaker 1: a country that is so strong on crowd control protests 224 00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:05,250 Speaker 1: are highly organized with tight security. 225 00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: Well, yes, he and other government officials have been saying 226 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,100 Speaker 1: a lot of similar things and in fact, the Interior 227 00:12:11,110 --> 00:12:14,740 Speaker 1: Ministry is harshly criticized right now for having said that too. 228 00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:17,729 Speaker 1: But looking at what happened that night, especially the calls 229 00:12:17,730 --> 00:12:20,660 Speaker 1: made to the police by the people there that night. 230 00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:23,849 Speaker 1: They were urgently seeking help and warning of something like 231 00:12:23,850 --> 00:12:27,620 Speaker 1: this happening. Because among the 11 phone calls that night, 232 00:12:27,630 --> 00:12:30,150 Speaker 1: many of them were saying, I think I am going 233 00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: to get crushed, please help me. 234 00:12:32,330 --> 00:12:34,829 Speaker 1: And yet the police did not send any police force 235 00:12:34,830 --> 00:12:38,420 Speaker 1: to control this area, that the police chief has admitted 236 00:12:38,429 --> 00:12:43,609 Speaker 1: its response was insufficient and that investigation will be carried out, 237 00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: but Koreans and foreigners to everyone here who have heard this, 238 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,550 Speaker 1: who were there and who were not there are 239 00:12:49,570 --> 00:12:52,670 Speaker 1: saying that because the police did not do its job, 240 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,310 Speaker 1: the government didn't protect its citizens even after all those 241 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,260 Speaker 1: urgent calls were being made to the police asking and 242 00:13:00,260 --> 00:13:02,810 Speaker 1: playing for help because they were just saying that I'm 243 00:13:02,809 --> 00:13:05,660 Speaker 1: gonna get crushed, please come and help. And yet nobody 244 00:13:05,660 --> 00:13:06,810 Speaker 1: went there to help them. 245 00:13:08,330 --> 00:13:11,570 Speaker 1: Now you're looking at live pictures here of the scene 246 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: of the stampede. South korean. President Yoon Sung yeo is 247 00:13:15,490 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: there and Yonhap reported that President Yoon says it was 248 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: so miserable to see this disaster in the heart of Seoul. 249 00:13:25,170 --> 00:13:28,059 Speaker 1: Yeah, reports saying calls coming in as early as four 250 00:13:28,059 --> 00:13:33,420 Speaker 1: hours before those fatal instances, where does this all leave 251 00:13:33,429 --> 00:13:37,530 Speaker 1: crowd control for types of events like the Halloween celebrations, 252 00:13:37,540 --> 00:13:39,709 Speaker 1: Are there any solutions? 253 00:13:40,140 --> 00:13:43,620 Speaker 1: I spoke to one professor Cheng Cheng sam who teaches 254 00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:48,660 Speaker 1: smart construction disaster management at indiana University who said unfortunately 255 00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:52,690 Speaker 1: in South Korea is only after a disaster like this one, 256 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,030 Speaker 1: that the government sees the need to do something about 257 00:13:55,030 --> 00:13:58,030 Speaker 1: it and in this case the crowd management controlling the 258 00:13:58,030 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: crowd in one area. 259 00:13:59,780 --> 00:14:01,979 Speaker 1: But you know the Seoul City Hall, this have a 260 00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:05,890 Speaker 1: system in place, it's a real monitoring system that uses 261 00:14:05,890 --> 00:14:10,260 Speaker 1: mobile phone data to predict the crowd size. Like for example, 262 00:14:10,270 --> 00:14:12,740 Speaker 1: if I went into the system now, I would be 263 00:14:12,740 --> 00:14:16,459 Speaker 1: able to see how many people there are near my office, 264 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: it's there, but experts are saying that they don't think 265 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: the Seoul City Hall officials checked it or so the 266 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: need to check it, they knew that about 100,000 people 267 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,500 Speaker 1: were going to be there. But I think a lot 268 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:31,660 Speaker 1: of people just thought well it's just gonna be one 269 00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: night of Halloween partying and that will be it. Also 270 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,250 Speaker 1: right now, apparently a lot of the different entities like 271 00:14:38,250 --> 00:14:41,859 Speaker 1: the Seoul City Hall or perhaps the airport, they all 272 00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:42,630 Speaker 1: have their own 273 00:14:42,645 --> 00:14:46,985 Speaker 1: assistance for their own purposes but they're not integrated as one. 274 00:14:46,995 --> 00:14:49,465 Speaker 1: So for example, the City Hall would know and they 275 00:14:49,465 --> 00:14:52,805 Speaker 1: would have it, but not the sole police, but definitely 276 00:14:52,805 --> 00:14:55,855 Speaker 1: Professor chang chang san was telling me that systems like 277 00:14:55,855 --> 00:14:59,805 Speaker 1: this once in place and if used properly, it would 278 00:14:59,805 --> 00:15:03,915 Speaker 1: definitely help prevent future disasters. And perhaps what happened at 279 00:15:03,975 --> 00:15:07,525 Speaker 1: Taiwan may be the impetus needed to get it deployed 280 00:15:07,525 --> 00:15:08,355 Speaker 1: more widely. 281 00:15:09,310 --> 00:15:13,260 Speaker 1: I remember seeing in one of your television packages, a 282 00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:16,790 Speaker 1: mother who went to identify the belongings of her daughter 283 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: and when she found her pair of black boots, she 284 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: just broke down. And you could really feel the immense 285 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,340 Speaker 1: grief and loss as she clutched those shoes. What assistance 286 00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:29,620 Speaker 1: is there going to be for families of victims? 287 00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: Well, the government and experts here are urging people to 288 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,630 Speaker 1: get help. Whether they were at a hotel on that 289 00:15:35,630 --> 00:15:39,470 Speaker 1: night or not. There are right now this mobile busses 290 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,660 Speaker 1: that's been deployed around where the memorial altars have been 291 00:15:43,660 --> 00:15:46,870 Speaker 1: set up and there are counselors inside waiting to help 292 00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: people with different trauma. But it's not easy for many 293 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,470 Speaker 1: South Koreans because there is this stigma still about seeking 294 00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: mental help. But the government is urging people to go 295 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,830 Speaker 1: and I spoke to a lot of the witness 296 00:16:00,210 --> 00:16:02,110 Speaker 1: And people who were actually there and there was this 297 00:16:02,110 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: one girl who was 30 years old and she went 298 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,630 Speaker 1: there with friends, there were six of them and only 299 00:16:08,630 --> 00:16:12,390 Speaker 1: two survived including herself. And she was saying she knows 300 00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:14,570 Speaker 1: she needs to seek help because she wants to talk 301 00:16:14,570 --> 00:16:16,910 Speaker 1: to somebody. And yet when I asked her if she 302 00:16:16,910 --> 00:16:19,500 Speaker 1: was going to seek help, she said no, she wasn't 303 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:21,740 Speaker 1: gonna go and see a therapist. And so there is 304 00:16:21,740 --> 00:16:22,900 Speaker 1: the social stigma 305 00:16:23,170 --> 00:16:26,310 Speaker 1: And government officials saying Yes, please go and seek help 306 00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: and experts saying you need to you need to talk 307 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,330 Speaker 1: this out there is this not just an individual grief 308 00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:35,110 Speaker 1: but also a collective grief that's going around here because 309 00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:37,229 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are still in shock 310 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,140 Speaker 1: and they just cannot believe that something like this could 311 00:16:40,140 --> 00:16:43,620 Speaker 1: happen in the heart of the city. This is the 312 00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:48,010 Speaker 1: country's worst tragedy since the say well ferry disaster in 2014. 313 00:16:48,220 --> 00:16:51,810 Speaker 1: In that case more than 300 people perished. Also, many 314 00:16:51,810 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: of them very young, they were students like you covered 315 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: that disaster as well. How would you compare covering these 316 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,700 Speaker 1: very difficult stories? 317 00:17:00,580 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: It's not easy. I think reporters all go through this 318 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,870 Speaker 1: trauma to if you have to cover disasters like this, 319 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,500 Speaker 1: but this is something that happened in Seoul and in 320 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:12,710 Speaker 1: an area where I often go to and I can 321 00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:15,090 Speaker 1: still see myself and in fact if I was not 322 00:17:15,090 --> 00:17:17,530 Speaker 1: in Singapore that night, I might have gone to eat 323 00:17:17,530 --> 00:17:20,830 Speaker 1: Taiwan on that night too. And so it's something that 324 00:17:20,830 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: is very close to my heart and a lot of 325 00:17:22,650 --> 00:17:25,379 Speaker 1: my friends were saying that they were there that night too. 326 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,830 Speaker 1: But being an adult for people over 40 maybe or 327 00:17:28,830 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: knowing how packed it would have been, I don't think 328 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,859 Speaker 1: they would have gone to that alley but most of 329 00:17:33,859 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: those people who died and went were in their twenties 330 00:17:36,609 --> 00:17:40,650 Speaker 1: and so it is heartbreaking. It is very difficult but 331 00:17:40,650 --> 00:17:43,750 Speaker 1: compared to that this is something that's happening here in Seoul. 332 00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:45,820 Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of people especially in 333 00:17:45,820 --> 00:17:49,140 Speaker 1: the Capital Seoul can look to this and that's why 334 00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:49,530 Speaker 1: when they 335 00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:51,530 Speaker 1: come to the memorial size you see a lot of 336 00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:54,889 Speaker 1: adults and elderly people just coming because they were living 337 00:17:54,890 --> 00:17:57,020 Speaker 1: in solely, they just felt that they had to come 338 00:17:57,020 --> 00:17:59,949 Speaker 1: and give their condolences or pay their tribute because they 339 00:17:59,950 --> 00:18:03,050 Speaker 1: could not just stay home while that sail ferry was 340 00:18:03,050 --> 00:18:06,710 Speaker 1: something that happened outside of the Capital Seoul and also 341 00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: very different is that 342 00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:11,129 Speaker 1: when I was covering the Sale ferry disaster there were 343 00:18:11,130 --> 00:18:13,689 Speaker 1: people still missing, there were a lot of parents who 344 00:18:13,690 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: are still looking for the loved ones and there are 345 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,450 Speaker 1: some who were never even found at least for this 346 00:18:19,450 --> 00:18:22,260 Speaker 1: one if I can say so, at least if bodies 347 00:18:22,260 --> 00:18:24,770 Speaker 1: have been found. But it's going to be something that 348 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:26,580 Speaker 1: I think for a lot of Koreans it's going to 349 00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:30,070 Speaker 1: take a long time to get over. Indeed. Thank you 350 00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:33,460 Speaker 1: very much for your insights on a story that will 351 00:18:33,470 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: reverberate for years to come. Thank you Teresa, 352 00:18:37,940 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: the tv version of Sienna correspondent airs on Sienna every 353 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,449 Speaker 1: Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. You can also catch up with 354 00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:47,850 Speaker 1: them whenever you like on Sienna dot asia follow this 355 00:18:47,850 --> 00:18:50,409 Speaker 1: podcast version that takes you behind the scenes with our 356 00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:53,470 Speaker 1: correspondence so you'll know when a new episode is out. 357 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,510 Speaker 1: Our podcast team is made up of daniel lee, Christina robert, 358 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 1: Clara Yong and me, your host, Teresa Tang, Thank you 359 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: for listening.