Speaker 1: Talk back with Lance and Daniel from 6 p.m.
Speaker 1: It's told by right here on CNA 938. Would you
Speaker 1: report your child if they were vaping? Now, we want
Speaker 1: to talk about this because Minister of State for Health
Speaker 1: Rahali Mahzam said very clearly in parliament on Monday.
Speaker 1: The children who were reported by their parents for vaping,
Speaker 1: those children will not be fined. Obviously, the more important
Speaker 1: thing is not about sanctioning the children, the more important
Speaker 1: thing is about helping them recover. Because, yeah, we know
Speaker 1: that vaping can harm you in a variety of ways.
Speaker 1: It could impact your heart, your brain, your lungs, your
Speaker 1: general health, so that's not good for you. So I
Speaker 1: think if you're a child and you are vaping,
Speaker 1: And, uh, your parents want to look after you and
Speaker 1: take care of you and your well-being, mental and physical well-being,
Speaker 1: and they can't do anything about your vaping because they've
Speaker 1: tried and tried and tried, report, report, report, report. I
Speaker 1: would think also in those cases, ah, the kid or
Speaker 1: the teenager is also happily vaping at home.
Speaker 1: In the family household because that's where it's the safest
Speaker 1: to do it, right? So also maybe mom and dad
Speaker 1: are like, you know, I've told you 10,000 times, you
Speaker 1: need to stop this. Why not? But it's a very
Speaker 1: tricky thing, man. Like, why is it tricky a family
Speaker 1: rather handle it.
Speaker 1: Within the family. 100%. You, you try and solve it in-house,
Speaker 1: but if you can't get anywhere with your child who
Speaker 1: is a bit rebellious and you know that you need
Speaker 1: to do a whole lot more, then bring other people involved.
Speaker 1: Bring people outside, bring the authorities involved because
Speaker 1: You need to get your child back on that straight
Speaker 1: and narrow and look after his or her health. Let's
Speaker 1: hear from Minister of State for Health Rahayu Mahzam on
Speaker 1: the um clarification in terms of, you know, if you
Speaker 1: were to report your child and the finding.
Speaker 2: In general, we do take a very nuanced approach with
Speaker 2: regards to voluntary situation where they actually want to stop
Speaker 2: vaping and where the parents actually bring their child forward.
Speaker 2: So typically for this kind of situations, it will be
Speaker 2: flagged to HSA and we will then issue counseling, vaping
Speaker 2: counseling to the child.
Speaker 2: And issue warning instead. I think that these are situations
Speaker 2: where we will need to continue addressing. What I would
Speaker 2: advise parents if they are facing a situation where they
Speaker 2: suspect that children are vaping, please use the HPB hotline
Speaker 2: to get them some help and appropriate support will be
Speaker 2: given to the children.
Speaker 2: And for those situations where there is an aberration and
Speaker 2: the matter is reported to the police, please let us
Speaker 2: know if there's some difficulties as mentioned in my earlier answer,
Speaker 2: it was only one case that we are aware of
Speaker 2: where the parent reported to the police, and in that case,
Speaker 2: a warning was issued instead. So perhaps if members
Speaker 2: are aware of certain circumstances where the parents have approached
Speaker 2: the police instead and some fines are issued, you could
Speaker 2: highlight that case to us because indeed what we want
Speaker 2: to do is to have a nuanced approach where we
Speaker 2: are supportive of parents who want to help their children
Speaker 2: cease vaping.
Speaker 1: Would you report your child for vaping? WhatsApp us at
Speaker 1: 963-1193 or call us at the number 669-11-938. Um, and also,
Speaker 1: don't forget our guest joining us, Lydia Lim, mom of
Speaker 1: two teenagers, 16 and 14, a peak psychologist, as from
Speaker 1: the management consult uh peaks psychologist management consultant with Research
Speaker 1: Communication International and also a chief psychologist and co-founder of
Speaker 1: Get Connected SG.
Speaker 1: Oh, call in 669-1193. That's the number to call. Let's
Speaker 1: go to our guest joining us, Lydia. Hello, Lydia. Hi, Harry.
Speaker 1: Nice to be on the show again. Good to talk
Speaker 1: to you, especially after that budget roundup that we did
Speaker 1: as well. I'm curious, this one is really right up
Speaker 1: your alley because as a parent, as well as a psychologist,
Speaker 1: we want to get two sides of it.
Speaker 1: Ah
Speaker 1: A report or not, right. Yeah, that's the question. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I think the issue is a lot deeper. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm very appreciative that, um, you know, as the minister
Speaker 1: said that they're trying to, to, to raise barriers for
Speaker 1: parents to come out, you know, for support. Um, but
Speaker 1: at the same time, the deeper underlying conversation here is
Speaker 1: really the sacred relationship between parent and child that deals
Speaker 1: with the trust bonds that deals with.
Speaker 1: Um, that that level of significance influence, um, you know, that,
Speaker 1: that takes place and what technically happens when parent just
Speaker 1: raises the bar and go straight out to the police, uh,
Speaker 1: on a situation. Yes, it could be really difficult, but
Speaker 1: the question is what does that do to the trust
Speaker 1: bond between parent and child? Is that a significant.
Speaker 1: permanent impact, what the child then perhaps instead of understanding
Speaker 1: the help that the parent was reaching out for, you know,
Speaker 1: be even more, um, you know, desperately need to be
Speaker 1: secretive because you know that line between privacy and you know,
Speaker 1: external authority.
Speaker 1: Uh, kind of starts disappearing with that first report. So
Speaker 1: I guess the reality really is what my, my question
Speaker 1: often is what more can parents do at home, uh,
Speaker 1: that you guys were discussing earlier to help children understand,
Speaker 1: you know, the real detriments or or harm that comes
Speaker 1: with smoking or vaping for that matter. You know, this
Speaker 1: is part of tough love, isn't it?
Speaker 1: So if, if, if the parents are struggling with a
Speaker 1: child that's a bit rebellious and wants to continue vaping,
Speaker 1: for example, this is more or less an intervention because
Speaker 1: you're trying to help the child, you know, and, and
Speaker 1: you want to, actually, you're looking after and, and you're
Speaker 1: showing more love this way instead of letting the child
Speaker 1: just do whatever he or she wants. So, so it's
Speaker 1: important to intervene, I reckon.
Speaker 1: Well, OK, let, let me propose a slightly shift in lens,
Speaker 1: because when we say tough love, we often think about something, uh,
Speaker 1: measures that are somewhat, you know, more aggressive, stronger, a
Speaker 1: little bit more definitive. But the reality often is, perhaps
Speaker 1: I feel in the work that I do, um, you know, um,
Speaker 1: it's a misunderstanding.
Speaker 1: that stronger personalities require stronger measures, and sometimes stronger personalities
Speaker 1: just need to deeply understand why no is the answer
Speaker 1: for some things and why yes is the better answer
Speaker 1: for other things. And if they are drawn into a
Speaker 1: mutually respectful conversation, and yes, I do mean even very
Speaker 1: young children, um, you know, the, and the choice is
Speaker 1: always in their hands, but, uh, you know, by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying being indulgent.
Speaker 1: It means giving the child the information and knowledge to
Speaker 1: make important decisions from the smallest ones, like what shoes
Speaker 1: to wear so they don't hurt their feet if they're
Speaker 1: going out to the beach, for instance, uh, to more
Speaker 1: important ones where if I'm really stressed, would going out
Speaker 1: with my friends and like, you know, taking alcohol under
Speaker 1: age or smoking and vaping when I'm not supposed to,
Speaker 1: is that really a better option or is it a
Speaker 1: short term solution?
Speaker 1: to a much bigger problem in the future. And I
Speaker 1: think these are some conversations that I feel parents who
Speaker 1: are very busy working may not have the handles, much
Speaker 1: less the insight to know how to engage children. I mean,
Speaker 1: because isn't the way the cigarette and haven't been talking
Speaker 1: about smokingmemorial? I remember like my, my secondary school, I
Speaker 1: don't know whether it was.
Speaker 1: Legit or not, but my principal would conduct random breathalyzer
Speaker 1: tests on the students on the scenes. I thought they
Speaker 1: just checked the bags the breathalyzer over the PA system,
Speaker 1: a few names would be announced and these names will
Speaker 1: report to them occasionally, but this is an age old problem,
Speaker 1: isn't it? It's not really new. It's just evolved and
Speaker 1: the chemicals that are being consumed.
Speaker 1: literally inhaled it far scarier. I mean, that's direct brain damage.
Speaker 1: But what I mean is like the parents have had
Speaker 1: this discussion before. Don't let me catch you with this.
Speaker 1: Don't do it. It's bad for your health. You should
Speaker 1: not be doing it. I don't want you to, you know,
Speaker 1: these conversations have been happening. Yes. So, so let me
Speaker 1: push this conversation a little bit more because clearly, if
Speaker 1: this is HO conversations, these methods, are they working?
Speaker 1: And if they're working for how long, maybe when the
Speaker 1: parents are no longer in the picture, so my, my
Speaker 1: proposal actually is to first of all encourage parents to
Speaker 1: know their children's personality and if they are the sort
Speaker 1: that doesn't that plays hardball very well, hardball approaches tend
Speaker 1: to create an instinctive need to push back. If not now,
Speaker 1: maybe in the future. And so I.
Speaker 1: Worked with kids who are stronger willed who fight for
Speaker 1: their freedom to choose a lot more when they're engaged
Speaker 1: at a level where they're given information, they're led to
Speaker 1: see the real repercussions that they're choosing to enter into.
Speaker 1: I have seen kids who could end up making very
Speaker 1: bad decisions actually choose the right ones for themselves because
Speaker 1: nobody's pressing.
Speaker 1: Them too. So just saying, stop it, or else, or
Speaker 1: don't let me catch you become trigger engagements for the
Speaker 1: ring to do it. You want me to do it.
Speaker 1: So OK, I've got a creative response from one of
Speaker 1: our listeners here just to interject, um, because the main
Speaker 1: question we're asking our listeners, would you report your child
Speaker 1: for vaping? Because as has been mentioned,
Speaker 1: The child reported by the parent would not be fined
Speaker 1: because there is a fine for vaping in public, but
Speaker 1: hopefully this would, the point is help them avail themselves
Speaker 1: of help, right? At the end of the day. Um,
Speaker 1: a listener what's up to cross and says, going to
Speaker 1: your point earlier on the day where you said, you know,
Speaker 1: what this create a permanent barrier or boundary between parent
Speaker 1: and child, right? How could you have done this to me?
Speaker 1: How could you report to me? This person says, hi,
Speaker 1: I will not report, but I'll have someone else be
Speaker 1: the snitch. Um, I will then help the child manage
Speaker 1: the consequence instead of firefighting.
Speaker 1: Growing problem. Why can't we just enforce that this is
Speaker 1: an illegal item to some and and something akin to
Speaker 1: as illegal and dangerous as drugs? Yeah, go along those lines.
Speaker 1: Cigarettes was never illegal. That's the problem. Well, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's a very creative way to go around
Speaker 1: preserving the parent-child trust. But and OK, seeing this from
Speaker 1: the surface of what the government is trying to do, um, the,
Speaker 1: the positive way forward I feel is once these kids
Speaker 1: are reported, these young people are reported.
Speaker 1: I'm actually more curious about the follow up, uh, support
Speaker 1: rather than just a warning or a fine. It's how
Speaker 1: can we create social support for young people to come
Speaker 1: together to have conversations, guided conversations to kind of lead
Speaker 1: them to the right choices.
Speaker 1: Yawned that this is right or wrong, you better not
Speaker 1: or else. Those kind of conversations in my, in my
Speaker 1: line of work over the last few decades, I found sometimes, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: very counterproductive. So I've met young people, delinquents, who make
Speaker 1: choices in their life, and upon reflection, go, Actually, I'm
Speaker 1: not pleased with the decisions I've made. But I found
Speaker 1: myself needing to do it, because that's the only way
Speaker 1: I felt like I was in control.
Speaker 1: And so thematically from that perspective of youth and children engagement,
Speaker 1: I've also found parents who have been creative and for example,
Speaker 1: went to brush their teeth or what happens when you
Speaker 1: take a cigarette, and they show very explicit photos, not
Speaker 1: in a threatening way, in a biological informative kind of way,
Speaker 1: that this is what's happening to your lungs, this is
Speaker 1: what's gonna, you're basically inhaling stuff that's going to kill you,
Speaker 1: even as you're maybe.
Speaker 1: Trying to survive from stress, for example. And so, so
Speaker 1: there may be a huge myriad of reasons why young
Speaker 1: people do what they do. It could be peer pressure,
Speaker 1: it could be looking cool, it could really be they
Speaker 1: feel calmer when they when they smoke. I mean, any
Speaker 1: reasons they say could be valid to them, no matter
Speaker 1: how much we reneg negate it. So the the reality
Speaker 1: for me with with what the government is doing, my
Speaker 1: point of curiosity is, can we go a little bit further.
Speaker 1: How can we build social communities to tend to those
Speaker 1: who are reported, and also how do we engage and
Speaker 1: reach out to those who we know are vaping, but
Speaker 1: have not been reported and maybe can go through the
Speaker 1: same social conversations and support so that they don't ever
Speaker 1: have to be reported. That that's really where I'm interested
Speaker 1: in going. Yeah. Lydia, you are a mother of two teenagers,
Speaker 1: 16-year-old daughter and a 14-year-old son.
Speaker 1: They're at that sweet spot, you know, they, they, they
Speaker 1: still are about to head off to junior colleges or
Speaker 1: polytechnics and then on to
Speaker 1: Uh, maybe, uh, institutes of higher learning beyond that. Uh,
Speaker 1: are you at all concerned that once they are out
Speaker 1: of your sort of reach, because they're gonna be mixing
Speaker 1: around with other people, they're not gonna be, uh, sort
Speaker 1: of handling school time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so because
Speaker 1: of that, would you be telling them now that these
Speaker 1: things that you could be seeing or experiencing with friends
Speaker 1: of yours, vaping and all that, to not
Speaker 1: Fall into that trap. So you're giving them the material now,
Speaker 1: the skills to sort of fend for themselves, to look
Speaker 1: after themselves, to prevent something like vaping from happening? Well, definitely.
Speaker 1: I mean that I don't know of any parents who
Speaker 1: wouldn't worry, especially if the day comes nearer that the
Speaker 1: child is gonna, your child's gonna leave your side literally
Speaker 1: and have a schedule of their own and you don't
Speaker 1: see them. Um, but I, I, I, what I would
Speaker 1: say though is that I would encourage parents and I
Speaker 1: guess somewhat of an occupational it because this is the
Speaker 1: line of work I do.
Speaker 1: To start a lot earlier than teenage, so I embarked
Speaker 1: on the journey of being very informative to my children
Speaker 1: from very young, uh, to inculcate um habits that benefit
Speaker 1: them and even to let them, you know, test waters
Speaker 1: and cross boundaries in simpler, uh, smaller, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of contraband issues so that they get a taste of
Speaker 1: natural negative, uh, you know, reactions. So they know what
Speaker 1: it means.
Speaker 1: To make better decisions for themselves. So for example, like,
Speaker 1: a lot of parents are something that a lot simpler
Speaker 1: than vaping, right? Let's say, eating snacks that's not healthy.
Speaker 1: So what I did really was when my child, my,
Speaker 1: my daughter was like, you know, basically had lots of
Speaker 1: noble nosebleeds. She loves her chocolate. But every time she,
Speaker 1: so every time she takes chocolate, she gets an immediate
Speaker 1: nose bleed. And so we, I would always, instead of saying,
Speaker 1: you know, child, you cannot have chocolate, full stop. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: I will implement these such punishments.
Speaker 1: I chose to use what we, what I would call
Speaker 1: a natural consequence, where I left it to her decide, chocolate,
Speaker 1: no chocolate. She ate it, and that cost her her
Speaker 1: say Saturday afternoon swim in the pool, because nobody's going
Speaker 1: to want a nose bleeding child in the pool. And
Speaker 1: so by virtue of pure logic and consequence and consideration, uh,
Speaker 1: thinking of herself if she was the other party, she
Speaker 1: suffered the natural consequence of what it means not to,
Speaker 1: you know, it.
Speaker 1: That's a, that's a sensible choice. Sensibility tends to go
Speaker 1: out the window when friends are involved, and I want
Speaker 1: to talk about the friend pressure when we return in
Speaker 1: the next segment. We'll be back on talk back, learning
Speaker 1: more about this issue and how you would respond. One
Speaker 1: of our listeners, um, uh, what's actually you texted SMS.
Speaker 1: I worried that it will cost you money, so send
Speaker 1: WhatsApp will be cheaper, um, and somebody says, you know what,
Speaker 1: the parents are also raping. Maybe that's a problem.
Speaker 1: Uh, and then goes on to say, why are cigarettes
Speaker 1: not banned? That is a discussion for another day. Indeed, Lydia,
Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap it up there. It was great talking
Speaker 1: to you again. Come back again, please. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Lydia Lim's a mom of two teenagers and peak psychologist,
Speaker 1: management consultant with Research Communication International and chief psychologist and
Speaker 1: co-founder of Getected.sg.