1 00:00:03,089 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:11,409 --> 00:00:15,510 Speaker 2: Oh wow, that looks interesting. Ferria, I'd like one crab 3 00:00:15,510 --> 00:00:18,930 Speaker 2: fried rice, please. Is this a fresh squid, right? I 4 00:00:18,930 --> 00:00:22,250 Speaker 2: can eat it fresh. Yeah, OK, I'd like to try. 5 00:00:23,770 --> 00:00:27,889 Speaker 2: Thailand's street food scene is legendary. Some say it's a 6 00:00:27,889 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 2: fundamental part of Thai culture. 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: Pad Thai, pork skewers, mango sticky rice, it can be 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,189 Speaker 2: a multi-sensory overload. Street stalls and night markets are hot. 9 00:00:38,279 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 2: They're buzzing with activity, and you're elbow to elbow with 10 00:00:41,319 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 2: others as you hear sizzling oil and smell aromatic spices 11 00:00:44,959 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 2: in the air. But what if those food stalls were 12 00:00:47,598 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: replaced with open air food courts? It's an idea being 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,700 Speaker 2: floated in Bangkok as officials work to clean up the 14 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:57,119 Speaker 2: streets and bring in Singapore-style hawker centers. 15 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,709 Speaker 2: I'm Teresa Tang, CNA correspondent Jack Bod spoke to people 16 00:01:00,709 --> 00:01:04,269 Speaker 2: who make their livelihood in this culinary space, and he 17 00:01:04,269 --> 00:01:07,389 Speaker 2: joins me to tell us what lies ahead for them. 18 00:01:08,069 --> 00:01:11,150 Speaker 2: Hi, Jack. Hi Teresa, always happy to be here, always 19 00:01:11,150 --> 00:01:13,470 Speaker 2: happy to talk about food. Yeah, great to speak to 20 00:01:13,470 --> 00:01:15,699 Speaker 2: you again. And I know you have been based in 21 00:01:15,699 --> 00:01:18,900 Speaker 2: Bangkok for a while now. How many years has it been? 22 00:01:19,150 --> 00:01:23,750 Speaker 2: About 6 years, 6.5 years now, yeah. Wow. OK, so 23 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:26,230 Speaker 2: in that time, I'm pretty sure you've had your fair 24 00:01:26,230 --> 00:01:28,669 Speaker 2: share of the city's epic street food. 25 00:01:29,190 --> 00:01:32,029 Speaker 2: I am pretty boring. I personally love just grilled corn 26 00:01:32,029 --> 00:01:35,018 Speaker 2: on the cob. It's, it's so good. What's your go to? 27 00:01:35,389 --> 00:01:38,089 Speaker 2: It's pretty hard to choose a favorite, I have to say, 28 00:01:38,199 --> 00:01:41,139 Speaker 2: because this is what Bangkok and Thailand is all about really. 29 00:01:41,269 --> 00:01:42,500 Speaker 2: It's the street food. 30 00:01:42,769 --> 00:01:45,910 Speaker 2: It's epic, it's legendary, I think the word that you used. 31 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,269 Speaker 2: And in my opinion, I think you have to search 32 00:01:48,269 --> 00:01:52,209 Speaker 2: pretty far and wide, elsewhere to find a culinary scene 33 00:01:52,209 --> 00:01:56,300 Speaker 2: that's so exciting, it's so varied, it's spicy, it's steeped 34 00:01:56,300 --> 00:01:59,699 Speaker 2: in tradition, and always delicious. Now I don't know why 35 00:01:59,699 --> 00:02:01,879 Speaker 2: you've chosen corn on the cob, it feels like a 36 00:02:01,879 --> 00:02:05,750 Speaker 2: pretty uninspired choice of all the things available here, like corn, 37 00:02:05,839 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: but having said that, and I do mention it in 38 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:08,509 Speaker 2: the story. 39 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,389 Speaker 2: I had some pretty excellent corn from an elderly couple 40 00:02:12,389 --> 00:02:14,559 Speaker 2: that was selling this grilled corn right on the street 41 00:02:14,559 --> 00:02:18,038 Speaker 2: at Victory Monument, which if you know Bangkok is right 42 00:02:18,038 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: in the middle of the city, it's this huge roundabout 43 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: with buses and traffic and noise and lots of protests 44 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 2: there in the past. And they've been there. 45 00:02:25,038 --> 00:02:29,070 Speaker 2: For 4 decades. They're in their 70s. They bring their 46 00:02:29,070 --> 00:02:32,429 Speaker 2: little stall out to the roadside. They lather the cobs 47 00:02:32,429 --> 00:02:36,429 Speaker 2: in coconut milk and palm sugar and salt, and they 48 00:02:36,429 --> 00:02:41,059 Speaker 2: grill them over the charcoal. Actually, really delicious. Yeah, you see. 49 00:02:42,139 --> 00:02:44,038 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, it was good. It was good. I 50 00:02:44,038 --> 00:02:46,389 Speaker 2: was surprised. But for me, it's hard to go past 51 00:02:46,389 --> 00:02:51,350 Speaker 2: Pad Kapal, which is the holy basil, chili, garlic, oil, 52 00:02:51,508 --> 00:02:54,619 Speaker 2: fish sauce. I like it with beef and a fried egg, 53 00:02:54,910 --> 00:02:58,429 Speaker 2: sizzling on a hot wok. And this is your quintessential 54 00:02:58,429 --> 00:03:00,829 Speaker 2: Thai dish. Anywhere you go in the country, you can 55 00:03:00,830 --> 00:03:01,350 Speaker 2: find it. 56 00:03:01,830 --> 00:03:04,508 Speaker 2: People of all kinds of people in society are are 57 00:03:04,508 --> 00:03:07,948 Speaker 2: eating it. It's the essence of Thai eating of Thai flavors, 58 00:03:08,029 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: so I'm going with that. But there are lots of 59 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,139 Speaker 2: lots of contenders, obviously. I know it's a tough question. 60 00:03:13,550 --> 00:03:17,019 Speaker 2: There was a statistic in your report that really surprised me, 61 00:03:17,429 --> 00:03:19,389 Speaker 2: and that was that for the two years that led 62 00:03:19,389 --> 00:03:24,309 Speaker 2: up to October of 2024, some 10,000 food vendors were 63 00:03:24,309 --> 00:03:27,820 Speaker 2: taken off the streets in Bangkok. That's not a small number, Jack. 64 00:03:27,869 --> 00:03:29,029 Speaker 2: What happened to them? Why? 65 00:03:29,660 --> 00:03:32,529 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely not a small number. And doing the 66 00:03:32,529 --> 00:03:35,300 Speaker 2: research for this, it did surprise me that the number was, 67 00:03:35,350 --> 00:03:36,289 Speaker 2: was so high. 68 00:03:36,979 --> 00:03:41,050 Speaker 2: Essentially, the, the Bangkok city government has stepped up its 69 00:03:41,050 --> 00:03:45,350 Speaker 2: efforts to do a few things. They want to promote orderliness. 70 00:03:45,380 --> 00:03:47,919 Speaker 2: That's the words that they've used. They want to improve 71 00:03:47,919 --> 00:03:53,610 Speaker 2: food safety, cleanliness standards, they want to support low income ties. So, 72 00:03:53,929 --> 00:03:57,850 Speaker 2: this isn't new either. Under the military-led national government of 73 00:03:57,850 --> 00:03:58,850 Speaker 2: Prayut Chancha. 74 00:03:59,419 --> 00:04:02,419 Speaker 2: These efforts kind of kicked off after it staged a 75 00:04:02,419 --> 00:04:05,660 Speaker 2: coup back in 2014, and shortly after that, it was 76 00:04:05,660 --> 00:04:09,449 Speaker 2: announced that OK, vendors that are operating on the city streets, 77 00:04:09,460 --> 00:04:11,660 Speaker 2: you have to move away, or you have to relocate 78 00:04:11,660 --> 00:04:14,428 Speaker 2: to certain designated areas. And in short, it was all 79 00:04:14,429 --> 00:04:16,899 Speaker 2: about order. And at that time there were hundreds of 80 00:04:16,899 --> 00:04:20,260 Speaker 2: areas that got cleared, and we kind of saw the 81 00:04:20,260 --> 00:04:23,010 Speaker 2: slow cleaning up of the crazy streets. 82 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: And then we got to COVID, and as we emerged 83 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,269 Speaker 2: after that, tourism started coming back, and the BMA again 84 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,829 Speaker 2: pushed to make sure that these standards were being maintained. 85 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 2: And as you know, that the streets of Bangkok can 86 00:04:36,799 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 2: be crazy at the best of times. So while that 87 00:04:39,799 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: is part of the character of the city somewhat, the 88 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: authorities don't want dysfunction. So they've introduced a bunch of 89 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,059 Speaker 2: new rules that will limit the number of street food 90 00:04:50,059 --> 00:04:52,070 Speaker 2: vendors across the capital, and that means, 91 00:04:52,450 --> 00:04:54,868 Speaker 2: The vendors are only allowed to set up in, in 92 00:04:54,869 --> 00:04:59,109 Speaker 2: certain areas. Only Thai citizens on welfare are allowed to 93 00:04:59,109 --> 00:05:01,989 Speaker 2: take on this work, and they want to ensure that 94 00:05:01,988 --> 00:05:05,549 Speaker 2: only low earning Thais can operate in these spaces. And 95 00:05:05,549 --> 00:05:08,910 Speaker 2: then they're also managing the physical space. You can't be 96 00:05:08,910 --> 00:05:13,470 Speaker 2: blocking pedestrian areas. There are some size limitations about the stalls. 97 00:05:13,510 --> 00:05:16,269 Speaker 2: And generally, it does seem to be this sort of 98 00:05:16,269 --> 00:05:20,750 Speaker 2: foreshadowing of the day where street vendors might be gone altogether. 99 00:05:21,309 --> 00:05:24,429 Speaker 2: Though it might take some time, I think. That's so 100 00:05:24,428 --> 00:05:26,349 Speaker 2: hard to imagine. And you know, when you think of 101 00:05:26,350 --> 00:05:29,190 Speaker 2: thriving food scenes, a lot of people think of Singapore, right? 102 00:05:29,350 --> 00:05:32,269 Speaker 2: That's where I'm based. Singapore is known for its hawker 103 00:05:32,269 --> 00:05:35,630 Speaker 2: centers and for those who aren't familiar, they're basically these 104 00:05:35,630 --> 00:05:39,349 Speaker 2: open air sheltered food hubs where food is really tasty, 105 00:05:39,390 --> 00:05:42,420 Speaker 2: it's really affordable as well, and it's an entire experience 106 00:05:42,549 --> 00:05:44,070 Speaker 2: on its own and it works here. 107 00:05:44,390 --> 00:05:47,988 Speaker 2: But Jack, would it work in a place like Bangkok, right? Because, 108 00:05:48,149 --> 00:05:50,470 Speaker 2: you know, part of the appeal of street food is 109 00:05:50,470 --> 00:05:54,959 Speaker 2: that it's decentralized and it's sort of messy. Yeah, it is. 110 00:05:55,109 --> 00:05:58,029 Speaker 2: It's totally different to what you have in Singapore. I 111 00:05:58,029 --> 00:06:01,029 Speaker 2: think Singapore really does have a unique thing going with 112 00:06:01,029 --> 00:06:03,700 Speaker 2: the hawker centers there. I was also living in Singapore before, 113 00:06:03,988 --> 00:06:06,869 Speaker 2: been to my fair share of hawkers, and they do work. 114 00:06:06,910 --> 00:06:09,029 Speaker 2: They do work in the Singapore setting. 115 00:06:09,549 --> 00:06:13,450 Speaker 2: And it feels really ingrained into local food culture there. 116 00:06:13,660 --> 00:06:18,390 Speaker 2: And I guess they've developed for the same reasons why 117 00:06:18,390 --> 00:06:22,329 Speaker 2: Bangkok is increasingly looking to make its own hawker center, 118 00:06:22,339 --> 00:06:25,269 Speaker 2: or being inspired by Singapore, and that is solving these 119 00:06:25,269 --> 00:06:29,859 Speaker 2: urban challenges that occur when food is unregulated and when 120 00:06:29,859 --> 00:06:33,010 Speaker 2: it's unorganized, and all the issues that come with that. So, 121 00:06:33,559 --> 00:06:35,659 Speaker 2: I think in Singapore as well, the hawker centers have 122 00:06:35,660 --> 00:06:38,149 Speaker 2: become places not only for locals to eat, but little 123 00:06:38,149 --> 00:06:41,100 Speaker 2: tourism hotspots too. So if you're a visitor, you can 124 00:06:41,100 --> 00:06:44,179 Speaker 2: come to one organized place, you can sample everything you 125 00:06:44,178 --> 00:06:47,299 Speaker 2: might want to try, you guarantee that the there's gonna 126 00:06:47,299 --> 00:06:49,659 Speaker 2: be some level of cleanliness and hygiene. 127 00:06:50,470 --> 00:06:53,868 Speaker 2: Now, will that work here? I think we can already 128 00:06:53,869 --> 00:06:58,390 Speaker 2: see some really early iterations of the Singapore-style hawkers starting 129 00:06:58,390 --> 00:07:00,899 Speaker 2: to come, but they're more kind of like food markets, 130 00:07:01,269 --> 00:07:04,190 Speaker 2: I'd say, or you see night markets pop up in 131 00:07:04,190 --> 00:07:07,489 Speaker 2: semi-permanent fashion. Some of these do have a nice vibe, 132 00:07:07,829 --> 00:07:10,429 Speaker 2: but others I've been to still miss the mark. I 133 00:07:10,429 --> 00:07:12,309 Speaker 2: think what's important is you have to bring, 134 00:07:12,649 --> 00:07:17,250 Speaker 2: The character of the street, the vibe, the fun, the experimentation, 135 00:07:17,549 --> 00:07:22,209 Speaker 2: some of that grittiness, the dirtiness, to some extent. Yeah, 136 00:07:22,429 --> 00:07:25,690 Speaker 2: to the more sanitized version of the original. I think 137 00:07:25,690 --> 00:07:28,929 Speaker 2: that's the challenge. I think one important thing to remember 138 00:07:28,929 --> 00:07:33,690 Speaker 2: is that these are spaces not primarily for tourists. This 139 00:07:33,690 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: is where local people eat, so it has to serve them. 140 00:07:37,450 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: This is what some Thais are saying. 141 00:07:41,529 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: In Thailand, Thai people are snacking all the time. Speaking 142 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: from experience, when I see a market, I'll head there immediately. 143 00:07:50,450 --> 00:07:54,130 Speaker 2: There are plenty of choices and it's in our tradition. 144 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,010 Speaker 2: We see it this way since we were born and 145 00:07:57,010 --> 00:08:00,209 Speaker 2: grew up. So I think this is the charm of Thailand. 146 00:08:00,450 --> 00:08:02,929 Speaker 2: If we lose it, it'll be weird because we have 147 00:08:02,929 --> 00:08:08,850 Speaker 2: seen it since our parents' time. Actually, I'm comfortable with 148 00:08:08,850 --> 00:08:11,690 Speaker 2: walking around the streets to buy food. If they're all 149 00:08:11,690 --> 00:08:12,929 Speaker 2: grouped in the same location. 150 00:08:13,579 --> 00:08:16,049 Speaker 2: If it's like a centralized market, I feel like it 151 00:08:16,049 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 2: would be stuffy to walk around. That's what I think. 152 00:08:19,809 --> 00:08:22,329 Speaker 2: So those folks who have been cooking on the street 153 00:08:22,329 --> 00:08:24,959 Speaker 2: their entire lives, for those who don't know anything else, 154 00:08:25,010 --> 00:08:28,290 Speaker 2: like you said that one corn vendor was there for what, 30, 155 00:08:28,369 --> 00:08:31,799 Speaker 2: 40 years. What's the scene like for them these days? 156 00:08:31,929 --> 00:08:34,409 Speaker 2: We know Bangkok is a major tourist draw and I'm 157 00:08:34,409 --> 00:08:35,108 Speaker 2: wondering if there's still 158 00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:37,869 Speaker 2: Seeing the type of foot traffic and, you know, selling 159 00:08:37,869 --> 00:08:41,229 Speaker 2: enough skewers to have a decent life in the city. Honestly, 160 00:08:41,270 --> 00:08:44,108 Speaker 2: I think it, it's pretty tough for them out there 161 00:08:44,109 --> 00:08:47,020 Speaker 2: right now. The, the Thai economy is not doing great. 162 00:08:47,270 --> 00:08:49,669 Speaker 2: The cost of living has gone up a lot in 163 00:08:49,669 --> 00:08:50,460 Speaker 2: recent years. 164 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:53,909 Speaker 2: The tourism sector is not doing very well. I have 165 00:08:53,909 --> 00:08:55,750 Speaker 2: a story just out about that, if you want to 166 00:08:55,750 --> 00:08:57,909 Speaker 2: read that as well. I got to speak to a 167 00:08:57,909 --> 00:09:00,500 Speaker 2: few of them for this photo essay that we did, 168 00:09:00,669 --> 00:09:02,869 Speaker 2: and my tires only just OK, but I can definitely 169 00:09:02,869 --> 00:09:04,869 Speaker 2: order all of the food. But I went with my 170 00:09:04,869 --> 00:09:07,390 Speaker 2: colleague Mai. We had some more in-depth chats and we 171 00:09:07,390 --> 00:09:10,309 Speaker 2: had plenty to eat, just to kind of better understand 172 00:09:10,309 --> 00:09:13,419 Speaker 2: what they're going through. And not all of them have 173 00:09:13,419 --> 00:09:16,549 Speaker 2: been doing this their entire lives. Some of them have 174 00:09:16,549 --> 00:09:19,390 Speaker 2: turned to selling food as something on the side. 175 00:09:19,820 --> 00:09:22,459 Speaker 2: They do it in the evenings. One guy, we spoke to, 176 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:25,580 Speaker 2: he was a school teacher. He started making food from 177 00:09:25,580 --> 00:09:28,968 Speaker 2: his home province in eastern Thailand after his wife lost 178 00:09:28,969 --> 00:09:31,780 Speaker 2: her job. And he enjoys cooking. It gives them some 179 00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:34,940 Speaker 2: more income, so they started to do it. Others, though, 180 00:09:35,020 --> 00:09:36,900 Speaker 2: it is actually all that they know. A lot of 181 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:40,099 Speaker 2: the sellers out there are elderly. I think they're the 182 00:09:40,099 --> 00:09:42,739 Speaker 2: ones who are doing it the toughest because they might 183 00:09:42,739 --> 00:09:44,020 Speaker 2: not be selling food. 184 00:09:44,580 --> 00:09:49,260 Speaker 2: That's attractive or trendy or Instagram ready for tourists. Their 185 00:09:49,260 --> 00:09:52,659 Speaker 2: trade is for locals. And when there's less money flowing 186 00:09:52,659 --> 00:09:55,619 Speaker 2: around in the economy, it's these types of street snacks 187 00:09:55,619 --> 00:09:58,619 Speaker 2: or little indulgences on your way home from work that 188 00:09:58,619 --> 00:10:00,260 Speaker 2: regular people might cut back. 189 00:10:00,434 --> 00:10:03,275 Speaker 2: on a little bit. There was one lady I met her, 190 00:10:03,354 --> 00:10:06,505 Speaker 2: her name was Pontip. She was 60 years old. She 191 00:10:06,505 --> 00:10:10,104 Speaker 2: sells little Thai meatballs, little thing, yeah, little things on sticks, 192 00:10:10,284 --> 00:10:13,864 Speaker 2: little deep fried treats by a pretty busy bus stop, 193 00:10:13,905 --> 00:10:17,565 Speaker 2: and most of her customers are students. She makes about 194 00:10:17,565 --> 00:10:21,984 Speaker 2: $20 a day, selling that, it's really not enough to 195 00:10:21,984 --> 00:10:25,544 Speaker 2: support her family. And, and strictly, she's probably one of 196 00:10:25,544 --> 00:10:28,494 Speaker 2: the vendors operating in a place that the authorities don't want. 197 00:10:28,969 --> 00:10:32,090 Speaker 2: But it seems like there's also this unspoken leniency that's 198 00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:36,119 Speaker 2: happening to not move on some of these stalwarts, the 199 00:10:36,130 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: the older generation who have been in place for so long. Yeah, 200 00:10:39,849 --> 00:10:42,210 Speaker 2: so it's tough for them. I think, yeah, again, we 201 00:10:42,210 --> 00:10:44,329 Speaker 2: have to remember this is not just about tourism. 202 00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:47,849 Speaker 2: Many of these food sellers are really there to make 203 00:10:47,849 --> 00:10:50,978 Speaker 2: a living selling meals at a cheap price, at an 204 00:10:50,979 --> 00:10:53,729 Speaker 2: available spot for local people. And if that all gets 205 00:10:53,729 --> 00:10:57,479 Speaker 2: shipped up and gets moved into an air-conditioned hall or something, 206 00:10:57,770 --> 00:10:59,409 Speaker 2: it kind of changes things, and I think there's a 207 00:10:59,409 --> 00:11:02,140 Speaker 2: chance that many Thais can get left behind if that's 208 00:11:02,140 --> 00:11:05,690 Speaker 2: the case. Exactly, and that makes me wonder what impact 209 00:11:05,690 --> 00:11:06,770 Speaker 2: would a move to these. 210 00:11:07,195 --> 00:11:11,314 Speaker 2: Hawker centers have on these vendors in terms of cost, 211 00:11:11,434 --> 00:11:15,025 Speaker 2: in terms of opportunity, and I was reading something very interesting. 212 00:11:15,315 --> 00:11:18,554 Speaker 2: Some comments saying, look, the cost of paying rent in 213 00:11:18,554 --> 00:11:21,275 Speaker 2: a sanctioned food facility would be higher than paying the 214 00:11:21,275 --> 00:11:25,474 Speaker 2: fines these vendors probably get ticketed with. Yeah, I think 215 00:11:25,474 --> 00:11:28,525 Speaker 2: it's a fair question, it's a fair consideration for them. 216 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,590 Speaker 2: Certainly, it's like some of these vendors will be definitely 217 00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:35,789 Speaker 2: reluctant to move. Like the elderly couple in their 70s 218 00:11:35,789 --> 00:11:39,429 Speaker 2: selling corn, they're simply not going to do that. They'd 219 00:11:39,429 --> 00:11:42,969 Speaker 2: rather pack up their stall and, and retire than get 220 00:11:42,969 --> 00:11:48,059 Speaker 2: moved somewhere else. And there is this perceived financial drain 221 00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:50,989 Speaker 2: of the fixed costs of a stall. And I think 222 00:11:50,989 --> 00:11:53,710 Speaker 2: that's a concern for many of them. Although a lot 223 00:11:53,710 --> 00:11:55,909 Speaker 2: of them do pay for their spots on the street. 224 00:11:56,419 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: Right now they pay to the BMA for the permit 225 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,090 Speaker 2: to operate where they are. They don't know how long 226 00:12:01,090 --> 00:12:03,809 Speaker 2: that will stay in place, and others do tell me 227 00:12:03,809 --> 00:12:07,429 Speaker 2: that they, they pay small bribes to dodge getting fined. 228 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:10,049 Speaker 2: You know, they just, they just give some money to, 229 00:12:10,260 --> 00:12:12,340 Speaker 2: to make sure someone is looking the other way. 230 00:12:13,119 --> 00:12:16,919 Speaker 2: There are other considerations as well about being taxed or 231 00:12:16,919 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: having businesses that have to be formally registered. When they 232 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 2: haven't done that in the past, I think there's also 233 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 2: fears that they will lose their community, who, the community 234 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 2: is their customer base. The same people around them all 235 00:12:28,719 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 2: the time in the nearby shops or stalls, or the 236 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,869 Speaker 2: motorcycle taxi riders, they've come to know over the years. 237 00:12:35,239 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: There's a displacement that happens, and in a world where 238 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,478 Speaker 2: you see community being eroded. 239 00:12:40,820 --> 00:12:44,229 Speaker 2: You can see why holding onto that is something important 240 00:12:44,229 --> 00:12:46,829 Speaker 2: for for some of them. The pros, I guess could 241 00:12:46,830 --> 00:12:51,150 Speaker 2: be exposure. You could have foot traffic, places with ventilation, electricity, 242 00:12:51,229 --> 00:12:55,049 Speaker 2: other infrastructure, but there are definitely risks and sacrifices that 243 00:12:55,059 --> 00:12:57,030 Speaker 2: that I have to make. I just hope that we 244 00:12:57,030 --> 00:13:00,030 Speaker 2: don't end up seeing this kind of this generation of 245 00:13:00,030 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 2: iconic street food sellers. 246 00:13:03,119 --> 00:13:06,799 Speaker 2: That have created this incredible soft power for Thailand, they 247 00:13:06,799 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 2: fill the stomachs of millions of people every day and 248 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 2: just disappear and be replaced with something that's less authentic. OK, 249 00:13:13,599 --> 00:13:16,390 Speaker 2: then what, if anything, stands in the way of these 250 00:13:16,390 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 2: hawker style centers coming to town, you know, do you 251 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,340 Speaker 2: have any sense of when they could be operational and 252 00:13:22,570 --> 00:13:26,119 Speaker 2: Generally, what is your sense of how Thais feel about 253 00:13:26,119 --> 00:13:30,390 Speaker 2: this idea? I think there are multiple challenges to getting 254 00:13:30,719 --> 00:13:34,479 Speaker 2: the Singapore style set up really going. I think one 255 00:13:34,479 --> 00:13:36,119 Speaker 2: of them is what I was just talking about, which 256 00:13:36,119 --> 00:13:41,599 Speaker 2: is the resistance of the vendors themselves who are fearful 257 00:13:41,599 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: about what the changes might be for them. 258 00:13:44,179 --> 00:13:46,669 Speaker 2: And the cleanup efforts of the streets, although we've spoken 259 00:13:46,669 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 2: about 10,000 people taken off, and it's been going on 260 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,830 Speaker 2: for many years, really, it's only yielded mixed results, I'd say, 261 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 2: so far. Many of these vendors just continue to function informally, 262 00:13:57,820 --> 00:14:00,989 Speaker 2: but they might not be counted by authorities any longer. 263 00:14:01,359 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: And the BMA also has to find the space. Bangkok 264 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,429 Speaker 2: is a crowded place, right? So how do you create 265 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: functioning spaces for food, where people are and where these 266 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:12,479 Speaker 2: centers are needed. 267 00:14:12,820 --> 00:14:15,909 Speaker 2: And then who, who also gets to decide which food 268 00:14:15,909 --> 00:14:19,989 Speaker 2: vendors get to go where? So there are some financial 269 00:14:19,989 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: and logistical issues. And maybe there's just like, there's no 270 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,419 Speaker 2: rushing this. If you want to fundamentally change the way 271 00:14:27,419 --> 00:14:30,429 Speaker 2: that food is sold in Bangkok, you do need to 272 00:14:30,429 --> 00:14:35,150 Speaker 2: preserve history and culture while modernizing the way that it's 273 00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:38,979 Speaker 2: being done, keeping the streets tidy, but also making sure 274 00:14:38,979 --> 00:14:41,739 Speaker 2: that this vibrant scene isn't totally gentrified. 275 00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: I think it needs to maintain its character because the 276 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,349 Speaker 2: character is what produces the flavor and without that, then, 277 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,429 Speaker 2: then what are we left with? A challenging balance to 278 00:14:51,429 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: strike and I find it interesting to see in some 279 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,599 Speaker 2: places in the world, North America, for example, there's almost 280 00:14:57,599 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 2: this reverse engineering happening where there are increasingly more street 281 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: food pop-ups and Bangkok style stalls because officials want to 282 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,159 Speaker 2: bring more life back to the streets, right? Such a 283 00:15:08,159 --> 00:15:09,669 Speaker 2: different case in Thailand, yeah. 284 00:15:09,854 --> 00:15:11,914 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for bringing this story to us, Jack. 285 00:15:12,085 --> 00:15:15,585 Speaker 2: I'm hungry now. You better come over Theresa and we'll 286 00:15:15,585 --> 00:15:18,525 Speaker 2: do a little food tour or something. So good. Thanks 287 00:15:18,525 --> 00:15:21,965 Speaker 2: so much. Thanks. You can find Jack's stories on YouTube 288 00:15:21,965 --> 00:15:25,164 Speaker 2: and CNA.Aia and a reminder the TV episode of CNA 289 00:15:25,164 --> 00:15:29,585 Speaker 2: Correspondent airs every Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. Singapore, Hong Kong time. 290 00:15:30,090 --> 00:15:32,330 Speaker 2: As always, thanks for joining me. I'm Teresa Tang. The 291 00:15:32,330 --> 00:15:36,570 Speaker 2: team behind this week's episode is Sayyahin, Claire Ong, Tiffany Ung, 292 00:15:36,729 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: Juani Johari, Pei Ning Ho, and Craig Dale. Bye for now.