WEBVTT - Can our world heritage sites survive climate change?

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a CNA podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Think of some of the world's greatest sites, the Taj Mahal,

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<v Speaker 1>the Sydney Opera House, Angkor Wat, or highly valued protected

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<v Speaker 1>parts of our natural world. Yellowstone National Park, Ha Long Bay,

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<v Speaker 1>the Okavango Delta. What do they have in common? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>they're UNESCO heritage listed sites, and they're all desperately threatened

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<v Speaker 1>by climate change. Today we look at the future of

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<v Speaker 1>the most important places on our planet.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello and welcome to Climate Conversations. I'm Jack Go coming

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<v Speaker 1>to you from Bangkok, Thailand, and from Singapore HQ Sle

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<v Speaker 1>Ling Tan. How are you going? Hi,

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<v Speaker 2>Jack. I, how am I going? How am I doing?

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<v Speaker 2>How am I going?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing well.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm well, thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been looking forward to this pod for a bit.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm quite a history and architecture buff and the seven

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<v Speaker 2>wonders of the world uh fueled a lot of my

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<v Speaker 2>childhood imagination and sense of adventures. I'm sure it did

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<v Speaker 2>yours as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. Nice. Have you ever played the game

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<v Speaker 1>where you have to like remember what

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<v Speaker 1>Are the seven wonders of the world, the new ones,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking or the new ones, all the old ones,

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<v Speaker 1>and see how many you've been to. Well, it's what's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of weird, of the new ones is there's actually

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<v Speaker 1>8 of them because they still count the pyramids. Because

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<v Speaker 1>the pyramids still exist, they're classified as an ancient wonder

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<v Speaker 1>of the world and also a kind of an honorary status.

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<v Speaker 1>New wonder of the world.

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<v Speaker 2>So I haven't been to a lot of them, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, back in my day when I was a child,

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't really differentiate between the ancient ones and the

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<v Speaker 2>new ones. I remember, you know, with my brother, we

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<v Speaker 2>would talk about the Great Wall, we would talk about

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<v Speaker 2>Taj Mahal, the pyramids. I remember the Hanging Gardens of

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<v Speaker 2>Babylon as well in the Colosseum that I've been to

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<v Speaker 2>the Colosseum, not the not the gardens, but the Colosseum.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been there. You're not that old.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah. So yeah, can you name the 7 old ones

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<v Speaker 2>and the 7 new ones there? Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>the 7 new ones, yeah, because that is a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a game with some of my friends and fellow

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<v Speaker 1>geography nuts we like to, you know, how many have

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<v Speaker 1>you been to? So you've got the Great Wall, you've

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<v Speaker 1>got the Colosseum, Machu Picchu, Petra in Jordan, Chichen Itza

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<v Speaker 1>in Mexico. You've got Taj Mahal.

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<v Speaker 1>And Christ the Redeemer. So I think I've been to

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<v Speaker 1>44 of

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<v Speaker 2>the. Well, that's not too bad. That's not too bad. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The ancient ones, the lighthouse of Alexandria, the Colossus of Rhodes,

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<v Speaker 1>Hanging Gardens, Pyramid

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<v Speaker 2>mausoleum of, I can't pronounce this. Yeah, that's a

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<v Speaker 1>mausoleum,

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<v Speaker 2>the mausoleum of Halicarnassus. There is, you mentioned the Colossus

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<v Speaker 2>of Rhodes. There's another one.

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<v Speaker 2>Zeus, the statue of Zeus, in what is now present

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<v Speaker 2>day Turkey, I believe.

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<v Speaker 1>And is there library, the library?

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<v Speaker 2>No, you're thinking the Great Library of Alexandra, not on

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<v Speaker 2>the seven wonders list, but there's one more in Celch.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a ruin Temple of Diana, Temple of Artemis

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<v Speaker 1>Temple of Artemis or Dionysus.

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<v Speaker 2>No, Dys of wine. It's different. That's

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<v Speaker 1>the temple.

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<v Speaker 2>All right.

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<v Speaker 1>OK, we digress. But now it is actually time for

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<v Speaker 1>the quiz. So we've already done multiple quizzes. Now, we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about UNESCO listed sites. They're often huge areas, they're

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<v Speaker 1>often vast wildernesses, not just cultural sites. Of course, that

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<v Speaker 1>can make it hard to protect them, which is something

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be talking about today. But I want you to answer,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the largest UNESCO listed site on the planet.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna give you four options.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it the Amazon rainforest in Brazil, the Phoenix Islands

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<v Speaker 1>protected area of Kiribati? Is it the Kluwane, Wrangle, Saint Elias,

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<v Speaker 1>Glacier Bay, Tatanini Alsek? Sorry for the pronunciation. That is

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<v Speaker 1>in the US and Canada spans Alaska, Yukon, and the

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<v Speaker 1>British Columbia series of national parks. Or is it the

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<v Speaker 1>Algerian section of the Sahara Desert?

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<v Speaker 1>The answer will be at the end.

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<v Speaker 2>OK, that is a bit difficult, but before we get

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<v Speaker 2>into this, I do want to point out that not

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<v Speaker 2>all the wonders of the world that we were discussing

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<v Speaker 2>earlier are part of UNESCO World Heritage sites. There are overlaps.

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<v Speaker 2>All the new ones, I believe, are World Heritage.

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<v Speaker 1>the other ones that don't exist anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, but they're not the same. They are also

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<v Speaker 2>classified by different organizations.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard to

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<v Speaker 1>heritage lists something that is no longer standing. And that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of brings us to our main story this week.

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<v Speaker 1>As climate change intensifies, the places that humanity hold dear

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<v Speaker 1>are under threat. A recent report by UNESCO and the

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<v Speaker 1>World Resources Institute found that nearly 3/4 of all heritage

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<v Speaker 1>listed sites around the world are highly exposed to water-related hazards.

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<v Speaker 1>Think droughts, floods, and storms.

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<v Speaker 1>And in many places, these hazards are overlapping. It's threatening

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<v Speaker 1>the future of our most magnificent landscapes, monuments that have

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<v Speaker 1>stood the test of time, witness wars and triumphs, the

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<v Speaker 1>collapse and rebirth of civilizations.

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<v Speaker 1>This isn't the only report looking at the threats to

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<v Speaker 1>World Heritage. Data and analytics company ClimateX last year ranked

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<v Speaker 1>the top 50 sites most vulnerable to climate-related risks globally.

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<v Speaker 1>Number one is in our backyard, the cultural landscape of

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<v Speaker 1>Bali in Indonesia, specifically the Subak system, which is those

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<v Speaker 1>famous stepped irrigation system used in their paddy fields, which

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<v Speaker 1>is threatened by surface flooding, extreme heat, and the risk

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<v Speaker 1>of drought.

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<v Speaker 1>Now all of these sites are special for a reason,

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<v Speaker 1>and there are calls to do more to save them.

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<v Speaker 1>Lee Ling is someone well versed in what the United

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<v Speaker 1>Nations is up to. I'm sure you'll be able to

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<v Speaker 1>give us a bit of a primer of what we're

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<v Speaker 1>actually talking about here, like, what is UNESCO? What does

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<v Speaker 1>a heritage site actually mean? Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>we love good little primers on this pod. So basically,

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<v Speaker 2>UNESCO is the UN Educational, scientific and cultural Organization. And

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<v Speaker 2>what it does is it look at all those things

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<v Speaker 2>that make up its mouth.

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<v Speaker 2>Full of a name, but the gist is that it

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<v Speaker 2>contributes to peace building, it promotes education and knowledge, it

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<v Speaker 2>tries to level the playing field and fight poverty also

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<v Speaker 2>fosters and organizes into cultural exchanges. Now the World Heritage

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<v Speaker 2>listing is one of UNESCO's jobs and perhaps the most visible.

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<v Speaker 2>These are places of outstanding cultural or natural importance to

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<v Speaker 2>humanity that still stand today.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, a heritage site can be listed by UNESCO for

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<v Speaker 2>cultural reasons, natural reasons or for just being an architectural

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<v Speaker 2>or engineering marvel. It chronicles our natural history but also

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<v Speaker 2>marks what we humanity can accomplish. So they can be

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<v Speaker 2>romantic grand masterpieces like the Taj Mahal attribute by an

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<v Speaker 2>emperor to his beloved wife or the Grand Canyon, known

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<v Speaker 2>for its natural beauty. I'm sure many of us have

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<v Speaker 2>been there, seen it, I have breathtaking, but

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<v Speaker 2>So well known for its geological history, these celebrate human

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<v Speaker 2>ingenuity or land use, like, you know, the Philippine Cordilleras,

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<v Speaker 2>the famous rice terraces there, or it could also be

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<v Speaker 2>sites that contain important biodiversity or threatened species like the

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<v Speaker 2>Galapagos Islands, home to species of plants and animals found

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<v Speaker 2>nowhere else on the earth. There are many criteria and

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<v Speaker 2>lots of evaluations, but the designation brings countries benefits like

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<v Speaker 2>tourism revenues, prestige.

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<v Speaker 2>Access to funding and protection under international treaties and all

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<v Speaker 2>in all there are nearly 1200 sites on the list.

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<v Speaker 2>Italy has the most heritage sites followed by China, which

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<v Speaker 2>of course is where the Great Wall is and that's

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<v Speaker 2>on the list as well. And you know, Jack, these

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<v Speaker 2>World Heritage sites are under threat from natural and man-made events,

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<v Speaker 2>things like conflict, over tourism, earthquakes, frequency of droughts and floods,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course water is a major problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're right. So 73% of all heritage sites are

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<v Speaker 1>facing a water-caused threat. That's what UNESCO is telling us.

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<v Speaker 1>That has to be a serious concern, right? And 90%

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<v Speaker 1>of those are cultural sites. So they're close to us,

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<v Speaker 1>they're in cities, they're around human populations a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the time, and we value those places. We visit them.

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<v Speaker 1>These lines from the report kind of struck me. These

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<v Speaker 1>Sites stand as powerful reminders of humanity's enduring relationship with water.

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<v Speaker 1>While water is fundamental to their significance, it can also

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<v Speaker 1>pose serious risks when its balance is disrupted, threatening the

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<v Speaker 1>integrity of these irreplaceable places. So you have these extremes

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<v Speaker 1>as well, either not enough water or too much water,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's impacting these places.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. And the report mentions

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<v Speaker 2>Many examples of those from Victoria Falls in Zambia, which

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<v Speaker 2>is experiencing multi-year droughts to the Saga Martha National Park

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<v Speaker 2>in Nepal, affected by this phenomenon called glacial lake outburst

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<v Speaker 2>floods or gloss, which is linked to accelerating glacial retreat.

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<v Speaker 2>Now Jack, I mean between the both of us, you're

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<v Speaker 2>the authority here on gloss, right? You've done reporting.

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<v Speaker 2>On gloves in Nepal and

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<v Speaker 1>you can call me

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<v Speaker 2>the glo guru. There you go.

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<v Speaker 2>Take it away. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I have. I have reported on glos. So I went

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<v Speaker 1>to Aam Mustang in Nepal, looked at the glo issue there.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have these abnormal annual melts due to global

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<v Speaker 1>temperature rise, glaciers at high altitudes are feeding massive amounts

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<v Speaker 1>of water into the surrounding lakes, because they're melting.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you have the risk of these lakes collapsing,

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<v Speaker 1>and that has communities throughout the region really on edge.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really dangerous. And I visited villages that have been

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<v Speaker 1>hit by cloths in the past. There's no way of

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<v Speaker 1>really knowing when a lake might burst. So you have

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<v Speaker 1>similar things also playing out in Bhutan and in China

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<v Speaker 1>and India and Pakistan. So just one of the impacts

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<v Speaker 1>of global warming on potentially.

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<v Speaker 1>Heritage sites and communities as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And the

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<v Speaker 2>report also shows that Asia is central to this narrative, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Water issues on this continent are significant and serious. Climate

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<v Speaker 2>change being a factor, yes, but there are other human

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<v Speaker 2>activity like urbanization, river regulation and upstream water withdrawal that

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<v Speaker 2>are making things worse for these heritage and cultural sites

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<v Speaker 2>and we could lose them.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll see them degraded in the years to come. They

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<v Speaker 2>include Petra and Jordan, which we talked, we touched on earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>the Angkor complex in Cambodia, Timbuktu in Mali, and the

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<v Speaker 2>complex of Hui monuments in Vietnam.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, going back to the ClimateX report that I mentioned earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>it's really clear to see the imprint of Asian heritage

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<v Speaker 1>sites at high risk. So as well as the Bali landscape, rank.

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<v Speaker 1>is #1, Indonesia has other listings, 2 in the top 50,

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<v Speaker 1>like Komodo National Park, you have uh Vietnam's Ha Long

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<v Speaker 1>Bay there as well. There are multiple sites in China, India,

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<v Speaker 1>South Korea, Japan, Pakistan. And to come up with these conclusions,

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<v Speaker 1>Climate X modeled the future likelihood of 16 different climate hazards,

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<v Speaker 1>including extreme heat, tropical cyclones, and flooding across 8.

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<v Speaker 1>Different warming scenarios over a century. So it's probably not

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<v Speaker 1>that surprising either that their findings do concur with the

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<v Speaker 1>type of risks that UNESCO itself recognizes.

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<v Speaker 2>And for those of you who listen to us regularly,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we try to wrap up these types of

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<v Speaker 2>chats by looking at some of the solutions that are

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<v Speaker 2>on the table or being put in place and what

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<v Speaker 2>we try to.

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<v Speaker 2>We argue about the

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<v Speaker 1>solutions you bring some of your gloom to the discussion. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>OK, what can actually be done about this though and

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<v Speaker 2>slow the decay because it's expensive to protect or restore

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<v Speaker 2>antiquities and vast landscapes can't recover overnight, right? And it's

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<v Speaker 2>not like the extreme events are going to stop. They're

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<v Speaker 2>only going to get worse. So what UNESCO does is

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<v Speaker 2>it provides emergency support.

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<v Speaker 2>To states and countries to help in areas like rapid

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<v Speaker 2>response and technical support, keeping in mind the need for

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<v Speaker 2>long term resilience and disaster risk reduction. So adaptation is

0:12:33.375 --> 0:12:35.694
<v Speaker 2>a key thing that they look at, they look at

0:12:35.695 --> 0:12:39.856
<v Speaker 2>innovative ways to manage water at sites, early warning systems,

0:12:40.065 --> 0:12:44.236
<v Speaker 2>better ways to manage water resource, and of course also

0:12:44.236 --> 0:12:45.815
<v Speaker 2>trying to promote traditional.

0:12:46.073 --> 0:12:50.513
<v Speaker 2>Knowledge, local stewardship and even looking back in time at

0:12:50.513 --> 0:12:55.033
<v Speaker 2>ancient solutions to solve some of these problems of today. Yeah,

0:12:55.273 --> 0:12:59.674
<v Speaker 1>a whole raft of potential solutions. And yeah, this idea

0:12:59.674 --> 0:13:03.874
<v Speaker 1>of old knowledge, I think is really interesting, complimenting that

0:13:03.874 --> 0:13:06.273
<v Speaker 1>with modern technology. And I saw this when I did

0:13:06.273 --> 0:13:09.914
<v Speaker 1>a story about the climate impacts on ancient sites in Egypt.

0:13:10.101 --> 0:13:12.481
<v Speaker 1>A couple of years ago. So when they were built,

0:13:12.572 --> 0:13:15.952
<v Speaker 1>millennia ago, these structures were meant to last forever, for eternity.

0:13:16.530 --> 0:13:19.812
<v Speaker 1>But amid this human-induced climate change crisis, even the the

0:13:19.812 --> 0:13:24.051
<v Speaker 1>strongest foundations may not survive. Crazy to think that they've

0:13:24.052 --> 0:13:27.372
<v Speaker 1>stood for thousands of years and within decades, we are

0:13:27.372 --> 0:13:30.131
<v Speaker 1>doing a pretty good job of dismantling them. But they

0:13:30.131 --> 0:13:34.131
<v Speaker 1>are using new technologies over there, things like remote sensing.

0:13:34.409 --> 0:13:37.799
<v Speaker 1>They use advanced mapping, visualization, so I think that's really interesting.

0:13:37.929 --> 0:13:41.079
<v Speaker 1>It's something that probably we need to pay more attention to,

0:13:41.130 --> 0:13:43.718
<v Speaker 1>but of course these technologies aren't going to help everywhere.

0:13:43.929 --> 0:13:46.210
<v Speaker 1>You're gonna have to find the right solution for the

0:13:46.210 --> 0:13:49.289
<v Speaker 1>right type of sites, and when so many of them.

0:13:49.424 --> 0:13:51.994
<v Speaker 1>73% are threatened. It's going to take a big effort,

0:13:52.075 --> 0:13:52.465
<v Speaker 1>I think.

0:13:52.594 --> 0:13:55.184
<v Speaker 2>And it's interesting too that so many of these sites

0:13:55.354 --> 0:13:58.114
<v Speaker 2>kind of define who we are today as part of

0:13:58.114 --> 0:14:02.195
<v Speaker 2>modern civilization and yet they are looking way back into

0:14:02.195 --> 0:14:04.314
<v Speaker 2>the past and well into the future.

0:14:04.630 --> 0:14:07.299
<v Speaker 2>For the solutions. I thought that was quite

0:14:07.299 --> 0:14:07.949
<v Speaker 2>fascinating

0:14:07.950 --> 0:14:10.659
<v Speaker 1>work and hopefully I mean hopefully something

0:14:10.659 --> 0:14:10.819
<v Speaker 1>works.

0:14:11.659 --> 0:14:14.299
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, we should also say that right now the 47th

0:14:14.299 --> 0:14:16.700
<v Speaker 2>session of the World Heritage Committee is meeting at the

0:14:16.700 --> 0:14:19.880
<v Speaker 2>UNESCO headquarters in Paris. Climate change, of course, is a

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.380
<v Speaker 2>central topic and we'll see if anything comes out of

0:14:22.380 --> 0:14:23.780
<v Speaker 2>those discussions.

0:14:25.059 --> 0:14:29.859
<v Speaker 1>OK, back to the quiz then. I've been doing lots

0:14:29.859 --> 0:14:31.539
<v Speaker 1>of talking. I don't know if you've had much time

0:14:31.539 --> 0:14:34.900
<v Speaker 1>to think. This one's tough. Yeah, repeating it for you,

0:14:34.979 --> 0:14:39.179
<v Speaker 1>which is the largest UNESCO heritage site by size on

0:14:39.179 --> 0:14:44.419
<v Speaker 1>the planet? Amazon rainforest in Brazil, the Phoenix Islands protected

0:14:44.419 --> 0:14:48.219
<v Speaker 1>area in Kiribati, a bunch of national parks that I'm

0:14:48.219 --> 0:14:49.380
<v Speaker 1>not gonna say again.

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Basically glacial national parks spanning a big section of the

0:14:55.200 --> 0:15:00.239
<v Speaker 1>US and Canada or the Sahara Desert, specifically in Algeria.

0:15:00.369 --> 0:15:01.309
<v Speaker 2>OK, this

0:15:01.309 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 2>is this is me. OK.

0:15:07.429 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 2>OK. Amazon rainforest, I know that.

0:15:11.325 --> 0:15:15.284
<v Speaker 2>Part of it is designated as UNESCO heritage site, not

0:15:15.284 --> 0:15:16.135
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing

0:15:16.135 --> 0:15:18.135
<v Speaker 1>dodged that I've,

0:15:18.734 --> 0:15:21.054
<v Speaker 2>I know what you're doing. I, you know, the fact

0:15:21.054 --> 0:15:23.734
<v Speaker 2>is you have 3, you have two very vague ones

0:15:23.734 --> 0:15:27.575
<v Speaker 2>one OK one and one that's so detailed. Yeah, that

0:15:27.575 --> 0:15:32.085
<v Speaker 2>this so anyway, Phoenix Islands protected area and Kiribas, maybe.

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:40.039
<v Speaker 2>The queen wrangle Saint Elias Liia Bay touch touch Tasini

0:15:40.039 --> 0:15:40.500
<v Speaker 2>Essek

0:15:40.500 --> 0:15:42.590
<v Speaker 1>wow, you've messed that.

0:15:43.789 --> 0:15:46.570
<v Speaker 2>That borders the US and Canada. So that's pretty, that's

0:15:46.570 --> 0:15:50.049
<v Speaker 2>pretty massive. And then you Sahara desert, Algeria. What is

0:15:50.049 --> 0:15:51.570
<v Speaker 2>that Jack, you're just throwing in.

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.039
<v Speaker 2>The Algeria part of a desert that comprises nearly a

0:15:56.039 --> 0:15:59.239
<v Speaker 2>dozen countries. So I'm guessing that one is a herring

0:15:59.239 --> 0:16:04.039
<v Speaker 2>is a red herring. Yeah. So you know, I'm going

0:16:04.039 --> 0:16:07.359
<v Speaker 2>to go with the Kiribas one Phoenix Islands protected area

0:16:07.359 --> 0:16:08.440
<v Speaker 2>because that's quite a vast area.

0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.309
<v Speaker 2>of islands and oceans, right?

0:16:11.950 --> 0:16:16.090
<v Speaker 1>You're correct. It is. It is the Phoenix Islands Protected Area.

0:16:16.599 --> 0:16:22.000
<v Speaker 1>It's a, it's just over 400,000 square kilometers. So it's

0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.869
<v Speaker 1>larger than California, it's larger than Japan.

0:16:25.539 --> 0:16:31.190
<v Speaker 1>It's about 560 times the size of Singapore. Massive expanse

0:16:31.190 --> 0:16:34.539
<v Speaker 1>of ocean. Wow. But it's quite controversial right now. In

0:16:34.539 --> 0:16:39.179
<v Speaker 1>late 2021, Kiribati modified the fishing rules of this marine

0:16:39.179 --> 0:16:42.940
<v Speaker 1>area and it replaced what was a no-take policy with

0:16:42.940 --> 0:16:46.210
<v Speaker 1>a plan that allows commercial fishing. When I went to Kiribati,

0:16:46.219 --> 0:16:48.429
<v Speaker 1>it was a big topic. You have a lot of

0:16:48.429 --> 0:16:51.179
<v Speaker 1>Chinese vessels starting to fish throughout.

0:16:51.315 --> 0:16:55.265
<v Speaker 1>This marine protected area. Now, it hasn't been delisted, but

0:16:55.265 --> 0:16:57.705
<v Speaker 1>there is pressure on Kiribati right now to work with

0:16:57.705 --> 0:17:01.185
<v Speaker 1>UNESCO to ensure that that doesn't happen. It could become

0:17:01.546 --> 0:17:04.066
<v Speaker 1>the next step, I think, would be it listed, being

0:17:04.066 --> 0:17:08.526
<v Speaker 1>listed as a heritage site at risk, I believe. So

0:17:08.526 --> 0:17:10.546
<v Speaker 1>if we come and do this exact quiz in like

0:17:10.546 --> 0:17:14.605
<v Speaker 1>5 years, maybe the answer would be something different. OK, well,

0:17:14.705 --> 0:17:17.234
<v Speaker 1>I think the national parks were the largest just

0:17:17.281 --> 0:17:21.151
<v Speaker 1>Including land from what I remember. And yes, the Sahara

0:17:21.151 --> 0:17:24.591
<v Speaker 1>Desert is not a UNESCO heritage site and only small

0:17:24.592 --> 0:17:27.192
<v Speaker 1>sections of the Amazon are. So you nailed that.

0:17:27.881 --> 0:17:28.261
<v Speaker 2>Woohoo.

0:17:28.432 --> 0:17:30.831
<v Speaker 1>OK. OK, that's all for this week. We'll be back

0:17:30.832 --> 0:17:33.182
<v Speaker 1>here next Thursday again. Thanks for listening.

0:17:33.391 --> 0:17:36.232
<v Speaker 2>Come back soon. Bye for now. Fee Ling Tan, signing

0:17:36.232 --> 0:17:38.552
<v Speaker 1>out. I'm Jack Ford, thanks to the team that produced

0:17:38.552 --> 0:17:42.920
<v Speaker 1>this episode, Sai Yayin, Tiffany Ung, Janai Jahari, and Hei Ning.