1 00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: This is AC N A podcast. 2 00:00:05,809 --> 00:00:10,220 Speaker 1: So here's a riddle for you. What tea do rich 3 00:00:10,228 --> 00:00:13,140 Speaker 1: people buy property? 4 00:00:15,810 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: It's so bad. I thought it was quite funny. Yes. Hey, everyone. 5 00:00:18,770 --> 00:00:21,969 Speaker 1: It's very obviously Stephen here. Welcome to another episode of 6 00:00:21,979 --> 00:00:24,569 Speaker 1: Heart of The Matter. Yes. Today we are talking about 7 00:00:24,579 --> 00:00:28,340 Speaker 1: property in a small country like Singapore. Property is something 8 00:00:28,350 --> 00:00:31,209 Speaker 1: we all love to discuss. And if you had no 9 00:00:31,219 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: idea what A BS D stood for before last week, 10 00:00:34,729 --> 00:00:37,389 Speaker 1: I'm sure, you know, by now, a BS D or 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: additional buyer stamp duty, that's the additional tax one has 12 00:00:41,369 --> 00:00:43,098 Speaker 1: to pay for when purchasing 13 00:00:43,259 --> 00:00:46,659 Speaker 1: property in Singapore. Now, every country charges a property tax, 14 00:00:46,668 --> 00:00:49,549 Speaker 1: but in the case of Singapore for foreigners, it's now 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,009 Speaker 1: doubled from 30 to 60%. So let's say you're buying 16 00:00:54,020 --> 00:00:56,689 Speaker 1: a property for a million dollars, you'd have to pay 17 00:00:56,700 --> 00:01:01,430 Speaker 1: additional taxes of $600,000. And that is on top of 18 00:01:01,439 --> 00:01:05,510 Speaker 1: regular taxes and legal fees. So we're asking today, why 19 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,550 Speaker 1: the increase, why now who does it affect? How will 20 00:01:08,559 --> 00:01:11,669 Speaker 1: it impact regular Singapore citizens and residents 21 00:01:12,860 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 1: to help me unpack this? I have Doctor Lee Dai, 22 00:01:16,099 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 1: head of Real estate Intelligence Data and software solutions at 23 00:01:19,650 --> 00:01:23,529 Speaker 1: Property guru Group. Hello, everyone. Also joining us is Eric Lim, 24 00:01:23,540 --> 00:01:27,529 Speaker 1: a real estate consultant at Hutton Asia. Hello, everyone. All right, gentlemen, 25 00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:29,830 Speaker 1: thanks for coming in. Let's start with the numbers. Now. 26 00:01:29,839 --> 00:01:32,929 Speaker 1: A BS D was first introduced in 2011. 27 00:01:33,250 --> 00:01:37,559 Speaker 1: Then foreigners had to pay 10%. Now 12 years, five 28 00:01:37,569 --> 00:01:41,019 Speaker 1: rounds of hikes later, that number is now 60%. So 29 00:01:41,029 --> 00:01:44,300 Speaker 1: why has there been such a significant increase especially since 30 00:01:44,309 --> 00:01:47,260 Speaker 1: the number of foreigners buying private property in Singapore is 31 00:01:47,269 --> 00:01:48,839 Speaker 1: only around 3%. 32 00:01:49,050 --> 00:01:51,180 Speaker 1: Dr Lee take a crack at this first. 33 00:01:51,190 --> 00:01:55,559 Speaker 2: So if we think about when the first cooling measure 34 00:01:55,569 --> 00:01:58,949 Speaker 2: first started off, most of our memories goes all the 35 00:01:58,959 --> 00:02:03,910 Speaker 2: way back to probably 1996 when property markets prices were 36 00:02:03,919 --> 00:02:10,100 Speaker 2: very hot, then closer to the memory will be the 2010. 37 00:02:10,110 --> 00:02:13,559 Speaker 2: When the market start to climb up, China's market is 38 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:16,460 Speaker 2: starting to open up and there's a lot of economic 39 00:02:16,470 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: growth in the region. 40 00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:20,289 Speaker 2: Now, the first thing that we need to know is 41 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 2: yes foreign buyers form a very small proportion 42 00:02:24,490 --> 00:02:29,309 Speaker 2: of the buyers in Singapore. But what happened is this 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 2: kind of trigger a related chain event so they bring 44 00:02:33,970 --> 00:02:37,490 Speaker 2: up the demand. It has a lot of spill overs 45 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:38,289 Speaker 2: to the surrounding 46 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: market. So overall, you're saying it does have quite a 47 00:02:40,889 --> 00:02:43,580 Speaker 1: big impact on the property market in Singapore. 48 00:02:43,589 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 2: Yes, it has an impact. But that impact sometimes is asymmetric. 49 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 2: That means when they are there, they push the market, 50 00:02:51,649 --> 00:02:52,740 Speaker 2: it goes higher, 51 00:02:52,925 --> 00:02:57,794 Speaker 2: then everybody benefited from the increase in prices and sales volume. 52 00:02:58,014 --> 00:03:00,815 Speaker 2: But when it come down, the effect may not be 53 00:03:00,824 --> 00:03:05,133 Speaker 2: that because already the build up effect have already starting 54 00:03:05,145 --> 00:03:06,924 Speaker 2: to work for the local buyers. 55 00:03:07,035 --> 00:03:10,174 Speaker 1: OK. So overall you're saying foreigners coming in and buying 56 00:03:10,184 --> 00:03:13,044 Speaker 1: private property in Singapore does have a sort of long 57 00:03:13,054 --> 00:03:16,565 Speaker 1: term impact on our property market here. Yes. Ok. Eric, 58 00:03:16,574 --> 00:03:18,425 Speaker 1: what do you make of this? We don't have that 59 00:03:18,434 --> 00:03:20,883 Speaker 1: many foreigners buying our private property. But in your line 60 00:03:20,895 --> 00:03:21,274 Speaker 1: of work, 61 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,728 Speaker 1: are you dealing more with foreigners today? I see a 62 00:03:24,740 --> 00:03:28,470 Speaker 1: huge influx of foreigner pri because Singapore is a very 63 00:03:28,479 --> 00:03:32,130 Speaker 1: safe haven for them to bring their family, their Children 64 00:03:32,139 --> 00:03:34,270 Speaker 1: here to seek education and then 65 00:03:34,529 --> 00:03:36,889 Speaker 1: they want to sing their root here because it's a 66 00:03:36,899 --> 00:03:40,509 Speaker 1: very comfortable environment for them. Very safe. When you compare 67 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,470 Speaker 1: to all the countries in Asia, I think Singapore come 68 00:03:43,479 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: up top of their list. In comparison, I think for education, 69 00:03:47,660 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: they also consider like going to Australia, going to us, 70 00:03:51,250 --> 00:03:54,660 Speaker 1: going to Europe. But all these are quite far away 71 00:03:54,669 --> 00:03:57,759 Speaker 1: and of course, in every country they have certain issues 72 00:03:57,845 --> 00:04:00,304 Speaker 1: that they have to deal with like the gun issue. So, 73 00:04:00,315 --> 00:04:04,195 Speaker 1: so Singapore comes across as very attractive, very safe. We 74 00:04:04,205 --> 00:04:08,395 Speaker 1: don't have gunmen running around. No, we don't have junkies. No, no, 75 00:04:08,404 --> 00:04:10,184 Speaker 1: I got to admit any parent who has young Children, 76 00:04:10,195 --> 00:04:13,705 Speaker 1: especially safety is of paramount importance. So when you deal 77 00:04:13,714 --> 00:04:16,934 Speaker 1: with these foreigners who are coming to look for property 78 00:04:16,984 --> 00:04:20,924 Speaker 1: is money an issue, most of them prequalified themselves 79 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: before they come to Singapore. I, I, what do you 80 00:04:23,488 --> 00:04:25,928 Speaker 1: mean by that? Coming to Singapore? First and foremost, they 81 00:04:25,940 --> 00:04:28,899 Speaker 1: know that the property prices are one of the highest 82 00:04:29,059 --> 00:04:32,820 Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia. Secondly, I think car prices as well 83 00:04:32,829 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: as well as labor cost and all the general expenses 84 00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:40,328 Speaker 1: in comparison to if you are living in Malaysia or 85 00:04:40,339 --> 00:04:44,029 Speaker 1: living in Thailand is probably much more affordable to them. 86 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:44,390 Speaker 1: They actually 87 00:04:44,475 --> 00:04:48,834 Speaker 1: prequalified, they already done up their list of expenses, they 88 00:04:48,845 --> 00:04:52,545 Speaker 1: already done their budget. So they already know what to expect. 89 00:04:52,704 --> 00:04:54,984 Speaker 1: Even in terms of if let's say you are not 90 00:04:54,994 --> 00:04:57,644 Speaker 1: buying a property, you are renting a property, they are 91 00:04:57,654 --> 00:05:00,695 Speaker 1: not caught off guard when they come here. Ok. The 92 00:05:00,704 --> 00:05:05,024 Speaker 1: rental can start from 5000 all the way to like 30,000. 93 00:05:05,035 --> 00:05:07,704 Speaker 1: Now we even have 100,000, 200,000 94 00:05:07,980 --> 00:05:10,670 Speaker 1: depending on, on what kind of property. But you're saying 95 00:05:10,678 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: the expectations have been managed because they've done their homework. 96 00:05:13,609 --> 00:05:15,909 Speaker 1: Not only that they done their homework, they also hear 97 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,750 Speaker 1: it from their friends who are living here locally in Singapore. 98 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,390 Speaker 1: I mean, we read the news is in the media, 99 00:05:22,450 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: the demand is great but the supply is limited. So 100 00:05:25,649 --> 00:05:27,540 Speaker 1: they know that if I want to come to Singapore 101 00:05:27,549 --> 00:05:30,469 Speaker 1: to buy a nice house, a good class bungalow, they 102 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,488 Speaker 1: know that they will easily be spending 20 million and 103 00:05:33,799 --> 00:05:37,099 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. First and foremost Chinese as a foreigner, 104 00:05:37,109 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: they cannot buy gold class bungalow unless they get citizenship in. Yeah. 105 00:05:41,170 --> 00:05:43,510 Speaker 1: So for them for gold class blow if they want 106 00:05:43,519 --> 00:05:45,959 Speaker 1: to stay in a gold class bungalow, they can only 107 00:05:45,970 --> 00:05:49,238 Speaker 1: rent that will drive up the demand because for gold 108 00:05:49,299 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: class bungalow, there's very limited supply in Singapore, there's only 2800. Ok. 109 00:05:52,769 --> 00:05:54,730 Speaker 1: So just help us understand for a moment. So what 110 00:05:54,738 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: can they buy? They can buy condominium, they can buy 111 00:05:56,928 --> 00:05:58,929 Speaker 1: private condominiums. Ok. So they just 112 00:05:59,178 --> 00:06:02,579 Speaker 1: buy landed property without special permission. That's right. So even 113 00:06:02,670 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: when they achieve their pr they need to apply for 114 00:06:05,730 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: LDA U before they buy any landed property. Ok. So 115 00:06:08,690 --> 00:06:10,829 Speaker 1: that's a bit more difficult. But then we do know 116 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,820 Speaker 1: condominiums vary. You can get the 1000 square foot or 117 00:06:13,829 --> 00:06:16,420 Speaker 1: the 20,000 square foot, you know, so the prices also 118 00:06:16,428 --> 00:06:18,739 Speaker 1: vary but, but doctor Lee, I want to get your 119 00:06:18,750 --> 00:06:20,988 Speaker 1: take because in a statement released to media, the Singapore 120 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: government actually said that these steps they created the A 121 00:06:23,649 --> 00:06:24,690 Speaker 1: BS D were to 122 00:06:24,928 --> 00:06:28,630 Speaker 1: help cool the property market. I quote, if left unchecked 123 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: prices could run ahead of economic fundamentals with the risk 124 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:37,260 Speaker 1: of a sustained increase in prices relative to incomes. Help 125 00:06:37,269 --> 00:06:40,570 Speaker 1: us understand this when they say prices running ahead of fundamentals. 126 00:06:40,579 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: What is the long term concern here? First, 127 00:06:43,049 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 2: we take a step back why property price can move 128 00:06:47,049 --> 00:06:51,589 Speaker 2: ahead of economic fundamentals. If we look at the wealth 129 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: of average Singaporean, 130 00:06:53,910 --> 00:06:56,988 Speaker 2: most of us, our wealth are locked in real estate. 131 00:06:57,299 --> 00:07:01,140 Speaker 2: So when the prices went up, our wealth also go 132 00:07:01,149 --> 00:07:04,670 Speaker 2: up our equity. When we cash out, our property is 133 00:07:04,678 --> 00:07:05,959 Speaker 2: very substantial 134 00:07:06,260 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 2: and that can take a life of its own. That 135 00:07:08,928 --> 00:07:12,390 Speaker 2: is why we will see the fundamentals. The market may 136 00:07:12,399 --> 00:07:16,010 Speaker 2: not be very good or very uncertain prices go up. Now, 137 00:07:16,019 --> 00:07:22,149 Speaker 2: the next question is when that happens, what are the consequences? 138 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: First consequences that we will see is people will have 139 00:07:25,329 --> 00:07:29,459 Speaker 2: to leverage. More properties are very appealing compared to stocks 140 00:07:29,470 --> 00:07:31,010 Speaker 2: because you can borrow, 141 00:07:31,184 --> 00:07:34,355 Speaker 2: right? So of course, people will borrow. And at the point, 142 00:07:34,364 --> 00:07:37,584 Speaker 2: even though the interest rates are high, it's still away. Ok. 143 00:07:37,595 --> 00:07:41,114 Speaker 2: And what does all this lead to when things turn sour? 144 00:07:41,535 --> 00:07:45,445 Speaker 2: Then you have a major correction, the integrity of the 145 00:07:45,454 --> 00:07:48,535 Speaker 2: financial system will be threatened in the sense. So it 146 00:07:48,545 --> 00:07:51,894 Speaker 2: will have widespread impact on the economy. 147 00:07:52,005 --> 00:07:54,334 Speaker 1: So in a way, if I borrowed too much against 148 00:07:54,345 --> 00:07:55,845 Speaker 1: my home, you know, and, and then 149 00:07:56,140 --> 00:07:59,268 Speaker 1: the market changes, people might be stuck, right? 150 00:07:59,410 --> 00:08:00,239 Speaker 2: And they have to top 151 00:08:00,250 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: up, right. So from a sort of economic fundamental point 152 00:08:03,489 --> 00:08:06,489 Speaker 1: of view, this could have long term consequences and I 153 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:08,609 Speaker 1: guess the governments are trying to play it safe to 154 00:08:08,619 --> 00:08:10,929 Speaker 1: a certain extent. Now, in this case, the A BS 155 00:08:10,940 --> 00:08:14,250 Speaker 1: D only refers to a very specific demographic. Singapore's National 156 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:16,790 Speaker 1: Development Minister Desmond Lee had said that this is sort 157 00:08:16,799 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: of a preemptive measure, you know, to sort of keep 158 00:08:19,450 --> 00:08:21,250 Speaker 1: a lid on foreign investor demand. 159 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,410 Speaker 1: But Eric we talk about this foreign investor are these 160 00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:26,390 Speaker 1: just the super rich? I mean from the clients that 161 00:08:26,399 --> 00:08:29,170 Speaker 1: you see how many of them are investing, how many 162 00:08:29,179 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: of them want to come here and actually work and live. 163 00:08:31,450 --> 00:08:34,299 Speaker 1: Actually the doubling in A BS T for foreigner may 164 00:08:34,309 --> 00:08:36,190 Speaker 1: be seen as discouraging for them. 165 00:08:36,609 --> 00:08:38,419 Speaker 1: Some of them they want to see their road here 166 00:08:38,429 --> 00:08:41,189 Speaker 1: and contribute to the economy. This may be a preemptive 167 00:08:41,198 --> 00:08:44,098 Speaker 1: move to stem the number of high end luxury homes 168 00:08:44,109 --> 00:08:46,618 Speaker 1: that they buy because a lot of them, they stay 169 00:08:46,629 --> 00:08:50,257 Speaker 1: in very big homes in China. So when they come here, 170 00:08:50,268 --> 00:08:53,748 Speaker 1: they will feel the demand you see for large home 171 00:08:53,758 --> 00:08:57,088 Speaker 1: that probably Singaporeans will not buy. So are there two 172 00:08:57,098 --> 00:08:57,757 Speaker 1: groups of people, 173 00:08:57,830 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: those who just have extra money, they want to park 174 00:09:00,770 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: in a safe place and those who actually want to 175 00:09:03,650 --> 00:09:06,570 Speaker 1: move here and really live here and work here? The 176 00:09:06,580 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: huge number of them they want to sing their roots? Oh, ok. Ok. So, 177 00:09:10,770 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: so this is going to have a real impact on them. 178 00:09:12,890 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: Are these the ultra high net worth or what kind 179 00:09:15,650 --> 00:09:18,978 Speaker 1: of income bracket for the ultra high network? I think 180 00:09:19,210 --> 00:09:23,260 Speaker 1: this probably to them it will take a little while 181 00:09:23,270 --> 00:09:25,260 Speaker 1: to settle down and then some of them may still 182 00:09:25,270 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: bite the bullet and buy like what we have seen 183 00:09:27,570 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: uh last week in the recent uh blossom by the park. 184 00:09:31,820 --> 00:09:34,479 Speaker 1: Four of the foreigner still bite the bullet and buy. 185 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:37,109 Speaker 1: What happened with that one? There was a sale of 186 00:09:37,119 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: eight units to foreigners, of which four are of Chinese 187 00:09:40,530 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: origin and four are from us. 188 00:09:42,866 --> 00:09:47,005 Speaker 1: So us, they enjoy the same tax saving as Singaporean. 189 00:09:47,035 --> 00:09:50,856 Speaker 1: Whereas for Chinese, they will have to pay these guys, 190 00:09:51,526 --> 00:09:54,056 Speaker 1: they're paying the 60% in BS C. And what were 191 00:09:54,065 --> 00:09:56,765 Speaker 1: the prices of these apartments in a range of two 192 00:09:56,776 --> 00:09:59,635 Speaker 1: million to three million? So even though they were having 193 00:09:59,645 --> 00:10:03,466 Speaker 1: to pay well, in some cases, almost a million dollars 194 00:10:03,476 --> 00:10:05,926 Speaker 1: in taxes, right? They still bought it 195 00:10:06,021 --> 00:10:07,671 Speaker 1: and why, why do you think that was the case? 196 00:10:07,682 --> 00:10:09,632 Speaker 1: What made them want to do that? Some of them 197 00:10:09,642 --> 00:10:14,481 Speaker 1: they have a formal mentality? Ok, maybe 60% is going 198 00:10:14,492 --> 00:10:17,551 Speaker 1: to go up to 80% 100%. You know, you know, 199 00:10:17,562 --> 00:10:19,691 Speaker 1: because some of them they were asking all of us 200 00:10:19,702 --> 00:10:24,151 Speaker 1: is 60 the last stop. Nobody knows, nobody knows. In fact, 201 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,881 Speaker 1: some of them thought that 30% was the last stop. 202 00:10:26,892 --> 00:10:29,351 Speaker 1: So some of the foreigners who came here to work, 203 00:10:29,630 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: they may rent first and then apply for permanent residency 204 00:10:33,010 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: before they buy. I think it is probably the best plan. Ok, 205 00:10:36,450 --> 00:10:38,890 Speaker 1: because the tax saving is really too much. Yeah. Yeah. 206 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:42,780 Speaker 1: And if you bought at 30% now you're thinking to 207 00:10:42,789 --> 00:10:43,359 Speaker 1: the bank. 208 00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: Ok. I, I get the sense that from what Eric 209 00:10:47,530 --> 00:10:49,799 Speaker 1: is saying, there are two different groups because those who 210 00:10:49,809 --> 00:10:53,049 Speaker 1: buy the two million $3 million kind of home are 211 00:10:53,059 --> 00:10:56,709 Speaker 1: in a way quite similar to us, Singaporeans and people 212 00:10:56,719 --> 00:10:58,630 Speaker 1: living in Singapore. That's kind of the price of a 213 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,069 Speaker 1: home now, right. But it's the ones that are buying 214 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:01,780 Speaker 1: the twin 215 00:11:01,854 --> 00:11:05,565 Speaker 1: 30 $50 million homes that I feel this A BS 216 00:11:05,575 --> 00:11:09,074 Speaker 1: D is really targeted towards. If you calculate 60% of 217 00:11:09,085 --> 00:11:13,034 Speaker 1: those ultra luxury high end homes, I think 60% is 218 00:11:13,044 --> 00:11:16,064 Speaker 1: going to hurt. Is it gonna hurt enough? Because again, 219 00:11:16,075 --> 00:11:19,815 Speaker 1: to them, I've got 100 million to spare anyway. So 220 00:11:19,825 --> 00:11:22,534 Speaker 1: maybe top it up with another 10 million. Is it 221 00:11:22,544 --> 00:11:24,465 Speaker 1: that big a deal? Well, 222 00:11:25,419 --> 00:11:26,270 Speaker 1: I don't know, 223 00:11:27,090 --> 00:11:29,900 Speaker 1: you haven't had any clients like that yet. Not yet, 224 00:11:30,729 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: but I haven't had this discussion with him. Ok. No, no, no. 225 00:11:35,090 --> 00:11:37,949 Speaker 1: But honestly speaking, the extra tax that they're going to 226 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,710 Speaker 1: pay one of them, they told me that they could 227 00:11:40,719 --> 00:11:43,549 Speaker 1: buy another condo. You know, they can, they can buy 228 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,140 Speaker 1: another property. That is true. That is true. Or maybe 229 00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:50,450 Speaker 1: this additional tax that they are paying, they may want 230 00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: to get permanent residency in Iceland 231 00:11:53,599 --> 00:11:55,479 Speaker 1: and then they buy in Singapore, then they get the 232 00:11:55,489 --> 00:11:58,330 Speaker 1: tax saving. Oh, yeah, because there are a few countries 233 00:11:58,340 --> 00:12:00,900 Speaker 1: that we can actually give them tax saving if they 234 00:12:00,909 --> 00:12:03,530 Speaker 1: have pr status. Right. Right. Right. Of course, Singapore has 235 00:12:03,539 --> 00:12:06,190 Speaker 1: certain free trade agreement, free trade agreement in certain countries, 236 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,339 Speaker 1: which is why the Americans enjoy the first property at 237 00:12:09,349 --> 00:12:12,729 Speaker 1: zero tax as well. But, wow, that's a rather convoluted 238 00:12:12,739 --> 00:12:15,830 Speaker 1: way just to buy property in Singapore. Right. So they 239 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,710 Speaker 1: start to think of various alternative like 240 00:12:18,969 --> 00:12:22,500 Speaker 1: uh using the money to apply for permanent residency in 241 00:12:22,510 --> 00:12:27,539 Speaker 1: this country like Switzerland, Iceland, maybe perhaps to apply for 242 00:12:27,549 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 1: G IP. What's the G IP G IP is a 243 00:12:29,609 --> 00:12:32,270 Speaker 1: global investment program by E DB. So this is more 244 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,190 Speaker 1: like if you set up a business in Singapore, you 245 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,890 Speaker 1: are reinvesting into the country because just now you asked 246 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:39,750 Speaker 1: me if the client is rich enough, right? So if 247 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,039 Speaker 1: he is rich enough to pay the 248 00:12:41,122 --> 00:12:44,922 Speaker 1: tax and obviously he's rich enough to participate in G IP. 249 00:12:44,932 --> 00:12:47,353 Speaker 1: So that is another option. So I guess the question is, 250 00:12:47,362 --> 00:12:50,473 Speaker 1: will these A BS D cooling measures sort of work 251 00:12:50,482 --> 00:12:53,463 Speaker 1: against that group of ultra high net worth or does 252 00:12:53,473 --> 00:12:56,172 Speaker 1: it just end up making those who are much further 253 00:12:56,182 --> 00:12:59,213 Speaker 1: down the scale suffer a lot more. This new cooling 254 00:12:59,223 --> 00:13:03,192 Speaker 1: measure 60% A BS D R the process 255 00:13:03,806 --> 00:13:07,526 Speaker 1: to ask them to make the decision to stay in Singapore, 256 00:13:07,535 --> 00:13:10,466 Speaker 1: to apply for PR or to go for G IP 257 00:13:10,645 --> 00:13:13,226 Speaker 1: or to apply PR in another country so that they 258 00:13:13,236 --> 00:13:14,966 Speaker 1: can have tax saving in Singapore if they want to 259 00:13:14,976 --> 00:13:17,155 Speaker 1: buy a property. So in other words, the holiday is over. 260 00:13:17,166 --> 00:13:19,655 Speaker 1: You can't just be in our country. Enjoy our benefits. 261 00:13:19,835 --> 00:13:22,166 Speaker 1: We want you to decide either you're gonna sink in. 262 00:13:22,176 --> 00:13:24,745 Speaker 1: Put some money down. Put your roots here. Take action. 263 00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:32,890 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone. My name is Christina and I'm Adrian and 264 00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: we're the host of a podcast called Work It. If 265 00:13:35,330 --> 00:13:37,299 Speaker 1: you never heard of it. Well, it's a good time 266 00:13:37,309 --> 00:13:40,099 Speaker 1: to tap in. In the last 20 episodes. We've discussed 267 00:13:40,109 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: topics like how to negotiate for a salary increase or 268 00:13:43,289 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: how to get along with younger colleagues who have different 269 00:13:45,890 --> 00:13:46,858 Speaker 1: values from you. 270 00:13:47,054 --> 00:13:50,814 Speaker 1: Incidentally is our top performing episode. If work consumes your 271 00:13:50,825 --> 00:13:54,455 Speaker 1: life and you want some perspective on issues like management stress, 272 00:13:54,465 --> 00:13:58,275 Speaker 1: even office romance. This podcast should be on your list. 273 00:13:58,445 --> 00:14:01,315 Speaker 1: A new episode drops every Monday. Catch us on the 274 00:14:01,325 --> 00:14:04,304 Speaker 1: C N A app or wherever you get your podcast. 275 00:14:07,390 --> 00:14:10,169 Speaker 1: So let's talk about then the other people because you know, 276 00:14:10,179 --> 00:14:12,169 Speaker 1: the foreigners coming in, as you mentioned is a very 277 00:14:12,179 --> 00:14:15,340 Speaker 1: small percentage. But what does it matter to the typical 278 00:14:15,349 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: Singaporean whether somebody spends 50 million on a home in 279 00:14:18,309 --> 00:14:21,179 Speaker 1: sin or not to the average Singaporean here? 280 00:14:21,429 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: How does it really affect them if 281 00:14:23,450 --> 00:14:26,969 Speaker 2: I had to look at it from a normal Singaporean? 282 00:14:26,979 --> 00:14:30,619 Speaker 2: When we look at all these high end prices purchased 283 00:14:30,630 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: by foreigners, the first part is to the local Singaporean, 284 00:14:35,770 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: they may find that it is very difficult to catch up. 285 00:14:40,049 --> 00:14:44,669 Speaker 2: And second thing is they probably be thinking, how can 286 00:14:44,679 --> 00:14:47,890 Speaker 2: they build their wealth in that instance to actually catch 287 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:49,369 Speaker 2: up and then narrow that gap? 288 00:14:49,955 --> 00:14:53,044 Speaker 2: Ok. And that gap will become wider and wider over 289 00:14:53,054 --> 00:14:57,465 Speaker 2: time as we speak. So from the Singaporean perspective, if 290 00:14:57,474 --> 00:15:00,315 Speaker 2: you look at the measures, now, most of them are 291 00:15:00,325 --> 00:15:04,335 Speaker 2: probably going to be upgrader. Usually people will buy H 292 00:15:04,344 --> 00:15:07,184 Speaker 2: DB and then move on. They will not be impacted 293 00:15:07,195 --> 00:15:11,325 Speaker 2: by that because they still don't pay any A BS 294 00:15:11,335 --> 00:15:13,594 Speaker 1: D. So actually this doesn't really affect the man on 295 00:15:13,604 --> 00:15:15,885 Speaker 1: the street, the Singaporean who is just upgrading from a 296 00:15:15,895 --> 00:15:17,405 Speaker 1: four room to a five room 297 00:15:17,479 --> 00:15:22,049 Speaker 1: to E C. Exactly, I back to the first, I 298 00:15:22,059 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: think H DB upgraded a lot of them, they will 299 00:15:25,289 --> 00:15:28,650 Speaker 1: probably choose to sell off their property first and then 300 00:15:28,659 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: rent and then buy because for them, if they were 301 00:15:32,289 --> 00:15:34,450 Speaker 1: to buy a second property, they will have to pay 302 00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:37,299 Speaker 1: upfront the A BS D first sell H DB and 303 00:15:37,309 --> 00:15:39,719 Speaker 1: apply for remission. But now the A BS D is 304 00:15:39,729 --> 00:15:42,599 Speaker 1: getting higher and higher. So they will have to park 305 00:15:42,609 --> 00:15:45,289 Speaker 1: the money as A BS T. Ok. So you, 306 00:15:45,505 --> 00:15:48,075 Speaker 1: they're going to sell and rent first. So what's the 307 00:15:48,085 --> 00:15:50,434 Speaker 1: big deal with that? How is this 60% A BS 308 00:15:50,445 --> 00:15:53,594 Speaker 1: T going to affect? I mean, the transition from H 309 00:15:53,604 --> 00:15:56,234 Speaker 1: DB to private property is going to be a little 310 00:15:56,244 --> 00:16:00,414 Speaker 1: bit different. Ah, ok. Ok. All the H DB upgrader 311 00:16:00,424 --> 00:16:04,155 Speaker 1: can do this. They sell, they ask for extension of stay. 312 00:16:04,395 --> 00:16:07,645 Speaker 1: Once the option is exercised for their sale, then they 313 00:16:07,655 --> 00:16:09,815 Speaker 1: can buy another property, but it has to be back 314 00:16:09,825 --> 00:16:11,905 Speaker 1: to back. So it's all about the timing. But one 315 00:16:11,914 --> 00:16:13,455 Speaker 1: of the concerns raised is that 316 00:16:13,679 --> 00:16:16,359 Speaker 1: if we put such a high BS T for foreigners, 317 00:16:16,369 --> 00:16:19,510 Speaker 1: some of them may end up not buying property but renting. 318 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,049 Speaker 1: If more of them rent, they will push up rental 319 00:16:22,059 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: prices since the market is already so saturated and prices 320 00:16:25,010 --> 00:16:28,969 Speaker 1: are so high already. How significant will this impact be? Personally? 321 00:16:28,979 --> 00:16:29,659 Speaker 2: I don't think it has 322 00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:33,059 Speaker 2: has any impact on the rental market. Now hear me 323 00:16:33,070 --> 00:16:37,309 Speaker 2: out the rental market, of course, there are several segments, 324 00:16:37,599 --> 00:16:40,590 Speaker 2: they have the high end segments, those who like come here, 325 00:16:40,599 --> 00:16:43,700 Speaker 2: wanted to set APR and then rent that will have 326 00:16:43,710 --> 00:16:48,830 Speaker 2: an impact on that segment. But for the rest of 327 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,099 Speaker 2: the aspects that are here in Singapore, they are already renting. 328 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,599 Speaker 2: They can't really afford to purchase a property in Singapore already. 329 00:16:56,609 --> 00:16:58,179 Speaker 2: They find that 30% 330 00:16:58,630 --> 00:17:03,469 Speaker 2: too large, too significant even before with all this A 331 00:17:03,479 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: BS D changes. So to them, they are already renting. 332 00:17:06,569 --> 00:17:10,438 Speaker 2: So that market is already at this point in time 333 00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 2: being inflated because of the existing construction delays and all 334 00:17:14,770 --> 00:17:16,419 Speaker 1: those. So they're not going to be like a whole 335 00:17:16,430 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: bunch of new foreigners entering the rental market just because 336 00:17:19,949 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: the A Bs D has increased and they're not 337 00:17:21,810 --> 00:17:24,909 Speaker 2: buying. If you look at the statistics, generally, we don't 338 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,910 Speaker 2: see that trend happening. And in fact, if I look 339 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,989 Speaker 2: at the people that are looking at rental markets through 340 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,869 Speaker 2: my platform, what we see is that the demand actually 341 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,209 Speaker 2: is declining because people are actually 342 00:17:38,459 --> 00:17:41,589 Speaker 2: moving away from rental because they are also resisting, the 343 00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: rentals are so high. The other reason is also because 344 00:17:45,050 --> 00:17:49,290 Speaker 2: we also see that domestic demand which is become accounted 345 00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:52,739 Speaker 2: for more of the rental demand during the pandemic is 346 00:17:52,750 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 2: also subsiding because they are getting their flats through B 347 00:17:55,369 --> 00:17:59,540 Speaker 2: D O completions and also the completion of their private 348 00:17:59,550 --> 00:18:02,510 Speaker 1: market. So so in that sense, rental prices are likely 349 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,050 Speaker 1: to be coming down in what in the next 350 00:18:05,135 --> 00:18:06,194 Speaker 1: next year, I would 351 00:18:06,204 --> 00:18:09,505 Speaker 2: say probably towards the end. But the thing is the 352 00:18:09,515 --> 00:18:13,444 Speaker 2: landlords are still holding firm. There's no reason for them 353 00:18:13,454 --> 00:18:15,714 Speaker 2: to lower the rent. So you will we will see 354 00:18:15,724 --> 00:18:19,224 Speaker 2: that kind of divergence that is happening. So the asking 355 00:18:19,234 --> 00:18:22,524 Speaker 2: rents have been inching up every quarter, right? But the 356 00:18:22,535 --> 00:18:25,055 Speaker 2: demand side is already kind of soften 357 00:18:25,175 --> 00:18:26,895 Speaker 1: but I'm sure that's a matter of time before it 358 00:18:26,905 --> 00:18:29,454 Speaker 1: corrects itself. There's no point asking a high price if 359 00:18:29,464 --> 00:18:31,724 Speaker 1: nobody is going to rent your property, right? 360 00:18:32,189 --> 00:18:33,899 Speaker 1: What do you think, Eric I mean, are you feeling 361 00:18:33,910 --> 00:18:35,430 Speaker 1: that this is going to have some kind of an 362 00:18:35,439 --> 00:18:38,060 Speaker 1: impact on the rental market. Um I agree with him, 363 00:18:38,069 --> 00:18:40,949 Speaker 1: the landlords, they stay consistent with they are asking rental 364 00:18:40,959 --> 00:18:44,069 Speaker 1: in fact that they want to ask a higher rental 365 00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:47,290 Speaker 1: price and we feel that the rental market will pick 366 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:49,379 Speaker 1: up in the coming months. But why is that? I 367 00:18:49,390 --> 00:18:53,390 Speaker 1: think some of the foreigners who cannot buy, they are 368 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,790 Speaker 1: not in a position to buy anymore. They will have 369 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:56,339 Speaker 1: to rent 370 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,020 Speaker 1: until the application for the permanent residency get approved, then 371 00:19:01,209 --> 00:19:03,339 Speaker 1: they will be able to buy. Because some of them 372 00:19:03,349 --> 00:19:07,130 Speaker 1: they actually come with the intention of buying straight away. 373 00:19:07,369 --> 00:19:10,290 Speaker 1: But this group, how big is it? A small percent? 374 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:13,329 Speaker 1: They will pay the 30% they save for it and 375 00:19:13,339 --> 00:19:15,420 Speaker 1: suddenly 60 they're like, ok, now I need to buy 376 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: more time to save more. So some of them maybe 377 00:19:17,810 --> 00:19:19,688 Speaker 1: will come to terms with it, buy the bullet and 378 00:19:19,699 --> 00:19:20,150 Speaker 1: still buy 379 00:19:20,344 --> 00:19:22,074 Speaker 1: but not that many, right? I mean, we're saying to 380 00:19:22,484 --> 00:19:26,694 Speaker 1: that to begin with, it's less than 10% of the market. Yeah. Ok. Yeah. 381 00:19:26,704 --> 00:19:29,974 Speaker 1: So we foresee the, the rental will pick up also, 382 00:19:29,984 --> 00:19:32,895 Speaker 1: maybe probably about 10% in this year overall. It sounds 383 00:19:32,905 --> 00:19:36,214 Speaker 1: like you're both saying besides rental otherwise for the average Singaporean, 384 00:19:36,224 --> 00:19:38,954 Speaker 1: this A BS D really doesn't affect them very much. 385 00:19:38,964 --> 00:19:42,525 Speaker 1: It doesn't affect our concerns, right? Not the property, not 386 00:19:42,535 --> 00:19:43,794 Speaker 1: the 30 to 60%. 387 00:19:44,060 --> 00:19:47,530 Speaker 1: What, what about the 17 to 20%? That's for locals 388 00:19:47,540 --> 00:19:50,109 Speaker 1: who want to buy their second property property. That's right. 389 00:19:50,130 --> 00:19:53,390 Speaker 1: That 3% increase, do you think that will have an impact? 390 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,150 Speaker 1: Is that going to put off a lot of people? 391 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,349 Speaker 1: I think people who really, really, really want to buy 392 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: a second property will take action very soon because we 393 00:20:01,650 --> 00:20:04,290 Speaker 1: have weakness in the past 10 years that 394 00:20:04,385 --> 00:20:07,714 Speaker 1: the cooling measures is not coming off every time the 395 00:20:07,724 --> 00:20:11,114 Speaker 1: cooling measure went up. Everybody said, will the government remove 396 00:20:11,125 --> 00:20:13,165 Speaker 1: the A BS D? Right? Will they reduce the A 397 00:20:13,175 --> 00:20:16,795 Speaker 1: BS C? The answer is very obvious, right? Ok. History 398 00:20:16,805 --> 00:20:20,073 Speaker 1: has told us past 10 years. Never, right. So it 399 00:20:20,084 --> 00:20:23,194 Speaker 1: always goes up, it never never come down. Yeah, just 400 00:20:23,204 --> 00:20:24,474 Speaker 1: like petrol prices, right? 401 00:20:26,339 --> 00:20:30,169 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is a tricky part here if we 402 00:20:30,180 --> 00:20:34,219 Speaker 2: look at before 2018, when people buy their second home, right? 403 00:20:34,229 --> 00:20:38,010 Speaker 2: They have to pay about 12% before it increase to 17%. 404 00:20:38,209 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 2: It will seem well, it's prohibitive. But if you compare 405 00:20:41,569 --> 00:20:44,219 Speaker 2: the prices now compared to 2018, 406 00:20:44,699 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 2: the increase in price is like 30 plus percent based 407 00:20:48,530 --> 00:20:51,530 Speaker 2: on the U R A index. So people now are 408 00:20:51,540 --> 00:20:55,780 Speaker 2: confident that prices can go faster than this A BS 409 00:20:55,790 --> 00:20:58,790 Speaker 2: D and that offset that effect probably that is also 410 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,229 Speaker 2: the reason why government keep increasing it because the increase 411 00:21:02,239 --> 00:21:06,349 Speaker 2: in price offset the A BS D effect. Now the 412 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,859 Speaker 2: question is, would this actually have any impact or would 413 00:21:09,869 --> 00:21:12,969 Speaker 2: this actually still fuel further increases? 414 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,079 Speaker 2: The problem lies also on what we're seeing is the 415 00:21:18,089 --> 00:21:23,339 Speaker 2: intergenerational transfer of wealth over the time that we see 416 00:21:23,479 --> 00:21:27,290 Speaker 2: most of the wealth that are gathered are the parents. 417 00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:30,349 Speaker 2: And now we are seeing quite a fair bit of 418 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:35,410 Speaker 2: this gen moving their wealth to the younger generation through 419 00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:38,310 Speaker 2: either bequest or buying the home directly. 420 00:21:38,540 --> 00:21:43,718 Speaker 2: And that transfer is not very observable, but definitely is 421 00:21:43,729 --> 00:21:45,770 Speaker 2: one of the things that we are seeing that may 422 00:21:45,780 --> 00:21:49,698 Speaker 2: change the whole trajectory. So that's why the liquidity position 423 00:21:49,709 --> 00:21:51,349 Speaker 2: of households are very strong. 424 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:53,270 Speaker 1: But at the same time, one would argue that there 425 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,180 Speaker 1: aren't that many homes or families that can afford to 426 00:21:56,189 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: do that? Or are you saying it's significant enough? Is 427 00:21:59,290 --> 00:21:59,649 Speaker 1: this 428 00:21:59,660 --> 00:22:00,430 Speaker 2: significant? Like 429 00:22:00,439 --> 00:22:04,099 Speaker 1: what one out of every 100 families will be buying 430 00:22:04,109 --> 00:22:05,369 Speaker 1: their child a home? So 431 00:22:05,536 --> 00:22:09,465 Speaker 2: let me give you an example. Now, suppose a family, 432 00:22:09,475 --> 00:22:12,826 Speaker 2: maybe the parents stay in a four room flat, right? 433 00:22:12,836 --> 00:22:16,926 Speaker 2: So they decided maybe they pass away especially they are 434 00:22:16,936 --> 00:22:20,095 Speaker 2: in the and they have paid up all the properties, 435 00:22:20,105 --> 00:22:26,865 Speaker 2: the kids will suddenly have $450,000 landing on the lab 436 00:22:26,946 --> 00:22:29,426 Speaker 2: right now. The next question is what would they use 437 00:22:29,436 --> 00:22:30,186 Speaker 2: it for? 438 00:22:30,355 --> 00:22:31,725 Speaker 1: Hopefully something smart 439 00:22:31,994 --> 00:22:32,446 Speaker 2: and that 440 00:22:32,531 --> 00:22:36,661 Speaker 2: probably property. Ok? Because for one large sum, you buy 441 00:22:36,671 --> 00:22:40,150 Speaker 2: stocks sound very risky. You invest in start up, that 442 00:22:40,161 --> 00:22:44,222 Speaker 2: is even more riskier and crypto. So, so that's the issue. 443 00:22:44,232 --> 00:22:48,552 Speaker 2: And because we are reaching the baby boomers who are 444 00:22:48,561 --> 00:22:53,332 Speaker 2: entering towards the growing age. And that is actually, well, 445 00:22:53,342 --> 00:22:53,562 Speaker 2: some 446 00:22:53,571 --> 00:22:55,802 Speaker 1: would also argue that thank goodness I can do that 447 00:22:55,811 --> 00:22:58,182 Speaker 1: for my Children because otherwise there's no way they can 448 00:22:58,192 --> 00:22:59,441 Speaker 1: afford a home on their own. 449 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:03,688 Speaker 1: If they don't have that 203 $100,000 to kick start, 450 00:23:03,699 --> 00:23:06,569 Speaker 1: you know, they will be stuck, right. So let's do 451 00:23:06,579 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: a bit of crystal ball gazing in the future. If 452 00:23:08,689 --> 00:23:10,629 Speaker 1: we look at the property market in the next 3 453 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,948 Speaker 1: to 5 years, can you guys give us an impression? 454 00:23:13,329 --> 00:23:15,060 Speaker 1: What is it gonna be like? Are we looking at 455 00:23:15,069 --> 00:23:17,550 Speaker 1: prices continuing to climb? 456 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,609 Speaker 1: Can we expect anything to drop or is that why 457 00:23:20,619 --> 00:23:23,079 Speaker 1: everybody is going in no matter what the A BS 458 00:23:23,089 --> 00:23:27,530 Speaker 1: D they're still going in because eventually prices still go up, right? 459 00:23:27,540 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: That you just said now 460 00:23:28,930 --> 00:23:31,510 Speaker 2: there's one assumption that we have to make is that 461 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:37,109 Speaker 2: economy continues to expand. We continue to have good jobs, 462 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,489 Speaker 2: we're going to continue to get paid. Now, if the 463 00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: government help us dere that through, you know, their policy, 464 00:23:44,050 --> 00:23:46,489 Speaker 2: fiscal policies price have to go up. 465 00:23:46,829 --> 00:23:50,959 Speaker 2: Now, the problem is if the external environment is beyond 466 00:23:50,969 --> 00:23:54,459 Speaker 2: the control of the government, we have a massive recession 467 00:23:54,469 --> 00:23:58,229 Speaker 2: like the Depression of the Yester year. Although now every 468 00:23:58,239 --> 00:24:01,319 Speaker 2: because of economies, we should be better off, then that's 469 00:24:01,329 --> 00:24:01,979 Speaker 2: the danger. 470 00:24:02,060 --> 00:24:04,839 Speaker 1: Ok? But if everything else remains the same. 471 00:24:05,109 --> 00:24:08,530 Speaker 1: Singapore has been relatively ok. Touch wood, you know, for 472 00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:12,219 Speaker 1: most years on this trajectory, you think prices will just 473 00:24:12,229 --> 00:24:13,089 Speaker 1: keep going up, it 474 00:24:13,099 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 2: will just keep going up. And even with this current 475 00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:18,270 Speaker 2: A BS D, and there's a reason if you think 476 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 2: about taxes, what are those taxes? Taxes are actually prices 477 00:24:22,369 --> 00:24:26,188 Speaker 2: on the public goods services? We have very good infra, 478 00:24:26,199 --> 00:24:27,979 Speaker 2: we have very good education. 479 00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:31,188 Speaker 2: That is a price to pay and the A BS 480 00:24:31,199 --> 00:24:32,270 Speaker 2: D is the price 481 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,290 Speaker 1: to pay. Ok. What do you think? Er, yeah, I 482 00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: agree with him. I think observation on past cooling measures 483 00:24:37,650 --> 00:24:40,389 Speaker 1: are that there will be a knee jerk reaction and 484 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,129 Speaker 1: demand will ease in the next three months. But after that, 485 00:24:43,250 --> 00:24:46,109 Speaker 1: people come to terms with it. Ok. Bite the bullet 486 00:24:46,204 --> 00:24:49,655 Speaker 1: and move on and probably get used to it. Wow. So, 487 00:24:49,665 --> 00:24:51,334 Speaker 1: so it's just a matter of getting used to it now. 488 00:24:51,344 --> 00:24:52,954 Speaker 1: It's like, wow, it was a shock but I think 489 00:24:52,964 --> 00:24:56,875 Speaker 1: buyers will reassess their finance before making a decision on 490 00:24:56,885 --> 00:25:01,254 Speaker 1: the property purchase, but prices may not ease given that 491 00:25:01,395 --> 00:25:04,935 Speaker 1: the low number of unsold units in the market and 492 00:25:04,944 --> 00:25:06,474 Speaker 1: in Singapore land scarce, 493 00:25:06,689 --> 00:25:10,339 Speaker 1: we have limited supply of project. Even for foreigners who 494 00:25:10,349 --> 00:25:13,130 Speaker 1: come to Singapore, they always ask. Oh, do you have 495 00:25:13,140 --> 00:25:15,369 Speaker 1: a next phase? I say no, every project we only 496 00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:18,968 Speaker 1: have one phase. So that doesn't finish because in their 497 00:25:18,979 --> 00:25:22,270 Speaker 1: country they are two use. They are phase one phase two, 498 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,719 Speaker 1: phase three because they have lot of land, they are 499 00:25:24,729 --> 00:25:25,619 Speaker 1: lots of land 500 00:25:25,744 --> 00:25:29,064 Speaker 1: and, and each of their project, they probably have like 501 00:25:29,074 --> 00:25:34,824 Speaker 1: 8000 units over here. They say 102 103 100 units. Yeah. Yeah, 502 00:25:34,854 --> 00:25:39,314 Speaker 1: 1000 units is considered a huge development here. Eric also 503 00:25:39,324 --> 00:25:42,385 Speaker 1: based on the clients, you have, do you think that 504 00:25:42,395 --> 00:25:44,665 Speaker 1: eventually they will all continue 505 00:25:45,089 --> 00:25:46,899 Speaker 1: and they will keep coming back that, that this A 506 00:25:46,910 --> 00:25:49,979 Speaker 1: BS D the 60% is not really going to deter them. 507 00:25:50,089 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: If Singapore remains to be the first go to place 508 00:25:53,930 --> 00:25:56,540 Speaker 1: on their list, they have no choice but to come here. 509 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,219 Speaker 1: But will they be willing to pay the money because 510 00:26:00,229 --> 00:26:04,170 Speaker 1: of the upside of the other things, safety, the infrastructure, 511 00:26:04,180 --> 00:26:07,069 Speaker 1: the schools, all that. Well, they probably buy the bullet and, 512 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:10,030 Speaker 1: and buy it. Ok. Yeah, maybe 513 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,030 Speaker 2: just to add on to Eric's point also is that 514 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,979 Speaker 2: we always forget the prices in other cities like Shanghai. 515 00:26:17,329 --> 00:26:20,369 Speaker 2: It's also growing, it's also increasing and it is much 516 00:26:20,380 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: higher than Singapore. So even with the additional 60% they 517 00:26:24,290 --> 00:26:25,089 Speaker 2: may find it. It's 518 00:26:25,099 --> 00:26:28,550 Speaker 1: cheap. They, they always compare Singapore to all the first 519 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,150 Speaker 1: tier cities in the world. Be Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, 520 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,689 Speaker 1: New York. Yeah, it's just that maybe their journey just 521 00:26:36,699 --> 00:26:41,329 Speaker 1: get longer. They apply for permanent residency and then they 522 00:26:41,339 --> 00:26:42,449 Speaker 1: will buy the property 523 00:26:43,609 --> 00:26:45,030 Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, it's a bit 524 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,958 Speaker 1: of a win win to a certain extent, the government 525 00:26:46,969 --> 00:26:49,458 Speaker 1: does earn more money from these taxes, which can then 526 00:26:49,469 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: be pumped back into the services that we all get 527 00:26:52,569 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: to enjoy. So there is some upside to it. Well, gentlemen, 528 00:26:55,650 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming in, sharing your thoughts 529 00:26:57,890 --> 00:27:00,770 Speaker 1: with us. I mean, in landscape, Singapore, I guess the 530 00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:03,150 Speaker 1: property market will always be one hot topic. In fact, 531 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: someone once told me that if you want to see 532 00:27:04,650 --> 00:27:07,698 Speaker 1: a more expensive house, come back to view this one tomorrow, 533 00:27:08,670 --> 00:27:11,410 Speaker 1: you know, and to a large extent that is kind 534 00:27:11,420 --> 00:27:12,198 Speaker 1: of true, right 535 00:27:12,459 --> 00:27:15,770 Speaker 1: from the question of affordability to long waiting times and 536 00:27:15,780 --> 00:27:19,430 Speaker 1: now heavy curbs on foreign ownership, there's always something to 537 00:27:19,439 --> 00:27:22,030 Speaker 1: discuss and this is not likely to be the last 538 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,718 Speaker 1: round of curbs. So we may be having this conversation 539 00:27:24,729 --> 00:27:26,699 Speaker 1: again to our listeners out there if you've got a 540 00:27:26,709 --> 00:27:29,489 Speaker 1: comment or question about this episode or other previous episodes 541 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:31,670 Speaker 1: actually do let me know I want to hear from you. 542 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,589 Speaker 1: I'm on all the usual social media platforms, Instagram tiktok linkedin, 543 00:27:35,609 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: drop a comment. Let us know what you think about 544 00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:40,250 Speaker 1: the conversation. We'd love to have your feedback. 545 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,889 Speaker 1: And as always a big thank you to my team, 546 00:27:42,979 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Chan, Joan Chan, Tiffany, Ang and Christina Robert. I'm 547 00:27:47,170 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: Steven Chow. I'll chat with you next week. Bye for now.