1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: I say. So it's zero and welcome back to another 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:07,850 Speaker 1: episode of calamities. We are so sad today because jimmy 3 00:00:07,850 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: can't be with us. She's unwell. Right. So it's just 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: the two of us today, but we have a replacement 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,170 Speaker 1: for as you can see a very, very special guest. 6 00:00:17,180 --> 00:00:19,430 Speaker 1: A warm round of applause to Shelley. 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: Hi everyone. Thanks 8 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:21,670 Speaker 1: for being here with us. 9 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 2: Thank you. 10 00:00:22,690 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: He tells more about yourself, silly. 11 00:00:24,290 --> 00:00:28,910 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm proud and happy mother of two daughters. There 12 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: are 5.5 8.5 this year. I always use that describe 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,830 Speaker 2: myself first because I feel that that's the thing that 14 00:00:37,830 --> 00:00:39,930 Speaker 2: gives me the greatest joy and every day I look 15 00:00:39,930 --> 00:00:42,690 Speaker 2: forward to just being with them and spending time with them. 16 00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 2: I wish I can say that you need to start. 17 00:00:45,170 --> 00:00:48,990 Speaker 1: I think today what we'll be talking about is sort 18 00:00:48,990 --> 00:00:51,420 Speaker 1: of related as well to you being a mother of 19 00:00:51,420 --> 00:00:53,460 Speaker 1: which I think a couple of seasons ago, maybe a 20 00:00:53,460 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: couple of episodes ago we spoke about 21 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: egg freezing at that point. It wasn't legal in Singapore, 22 00:00:58,450 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: but right now we've come so far we have some 23 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,310 Speaker 1: changes and progress and we want to talk about it 24 00:01:03,310 --> 00:01:06,420 Speaker 1: today because right now elective egg freezing is an option 25 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:10,580 Speaker 1: that you can have in Singapore. It's finally legal. Are 26 00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:11,380 Speaker 1: we happy about these 27 00:01:11,380 --> 00:01:13,819 Speaker 2: girls? I think many people have shared that it is 28 00:01:13,819 --> 00:01:15,450 Speaker 2: a step forward for women 29 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: because it 30 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,300 Speaker 2: presents options. We know that many things in life. Some 31 00:01:20,300 --> 00:01:23,700 Speaker 2: you can plan for some you can't many young people 32 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:26,830 Speaker 2: still want to get married but they may or may 33 00:01:26,830 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: not meet their partners as 34 00:01:29,650 --> 00:01:30,370 Speaker 1: early as they were 35 00:01:30,370 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: like you know sometimes these things happen serendipitously right? It's 36 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: not like 37 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,330 Speaker 2: I mean the olden days maybe can go matchmaking but 38 00:01:37,330 --> 00:01:39,260 Speaker 2: nowadays I think people want to meet 39 00:01:39,340 --> 00:01:44,279 Speaker 2: the other partner in a very normal and very organic fashion. Right? 40 00:01:44,290 --> 00:01:46,620 Speaker 2: And so because of that you can't exactly quite plan 41 00:01:46,630 --> 00:01:48,590 Speaker 2: where that's going to happen. There are many things that 42 00:01:48,590 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: young people think about nowadays careers for example and also 43 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: their lifestyles. Some young people have shared that you know 44 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,620 Speaker 2: when you get together as a couple it's a two 45 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: persons world, right? But once you start thinking about having 46 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,510 Speaker 2: Children basically it's a family. So I think family planning 47 00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:10,050 Speaker 2: is something that sometimes young couples make postpone, 48 00:02:10,740 --> 00:02:12,290 Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean that they do not want to 49 00:02:12,290 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: have Children. So elective egg freezing is an option for 50 00:02:16,090 --> 00:02:19,049 Speaker 2: couples who have already decided that they want to spend 51 00:02:19,060 --> 00:02:21,390 Speaker 2: the rest of their lives together, but at the same 52 00:02:21,389 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 2: time 53 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,220 Speaker 2: they are not quite sure whether or not they want 54 00:02:24,220 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: to have Children now but they definitely want to have 55 00:02:27,090 --> 00:02:28,290 Speaker 2: that option. So 56 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:30,950 Speaker 1: a bit more about E. F. Elected freezing. 57 00:02:31,139 --> 00:02:34,150 Speaker 1: Women can only go through this process between the ages 58 00:02:34,150 --> 00:02:37,610 Speaker 1: of 21-25 and they can only choose to use their 59 00:02:37,610 --> 00:02:38,010 Speaker 1: frozen 60 00:02:38,020 --> 00:02:38,660 Speaker 2: eggs 61 00:02:39,139 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: if they are legally 62 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,180 Speaker 2: Married. AM I right? Yes. Yes. At the end of 63 00:02:42,180 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: the day this is about family formation. So we are 64 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: encouraging married couples to have a family together. And that's 65 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: why you know we have those conditions and parameters like 66 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 2: you mentioned about the age. The reason why we have 67 00:02:56,530 --> 00:02:58,660 Speaker 2: shared 21-35 68 00:02:58,740 --> 00:03:02,450 Speaker 2: is because obviously it should be the age of maturity 69 00:03:02,450 --> 00:03:03,150 Speaker 2: and majority. 70 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,669 Speaker 2: And that's why 21 and 35 is just based on 71 00:03:06,669 --> 00:03:10,139 Speaker 2: the current medical and scientific evidence. Because like it or not, 72 00:03:10,150 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: unfortunately fertility health does decline with age. And when we 73 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,330 Speaker 2: make this announcement as part of the white paper conversations 74 00:03:19,340 --> 00:03:22,410 Speaker 2: on Singapore women's development, we want to make sure that 75 00:03:22,419 --> 00:03:25,049 Speaker 2: our audiences, are women are well informed 76 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,170 Speaker 2: because elective egg freezing is not without costs and it's 77 00:03:29,169 --> 00:03:32,020 Speaker 2: also not without pain. It's invasive at the end of 78 00:03:32,020 --> 00:03:34,740 Speaker 2: the day whether we like it or not. So the 79 00:03:34,740 --> 00:03:36,940 Speaker 2: last thing we want is to you know sort of 80 00:03:36,950 --> 00:03:41,300 Speaker 2: announce something and yet not share with our women. What 81 00:03:41,310 --> 00:03:44,710 Speaker 2: are some of the downsides to it. And to be honest, 82 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:46,050 Speaker 2: if they really want to, 83 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,230 Speaker 2: you know, I have the best chances of success. You 84 00:03:49,230 --> 00:03:51,500 Speaker 2: should really start as early as possible. So 85 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:54,010 Speaker 1: like what you mentioned just now, people in the past, 86 00:03:54,010 --> 00:03:55,910 Speaker 1: they will match me like my parents, they will match me. 87 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. My parents 88 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,620 Speaker 1: Were they were match made by my aunt, my father's sister. 89 00:04:00,630 --> 00:04:02,650 Speaker 1: So that's how they got to know each other and 90 00:04:02,660 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: my mom gave birth to my sister at the age 91 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,260 Speaker 1: of 26 pretty early in today's time. 92 00:04:07,340 --> 00:04:09,780 Speaker 1: And she gave birth to me at the age of 29. Here. 93 00:04:09,780 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: I am 28 and still single. But like what you mentioned, 94 00:04:13,970 --> 00:04:17,050 Speaker 1: it's always good to have an option for myself. You 95 00:04:17,050 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: know what if I don't find my Mr. Right? That's right. 96 00:04:19,610 --> 00:04:21,130 Speaker 1: And you know, I just wanted to ask as well 97 00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:23,460 Speaker 1: because you know, you can have us the eggs now 98 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:27,650 Speaker 1: at 21-35 social egg freezing or elective egg freezing for 99 00:04:27,650 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: that matter. 100 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,570 Speaker 1: It so it gives you an option to sort of 101 00:04:30,580 --> 00:04:33,850 Speaker 1: buy more time for your biological clock. But how far 102 00:04:33,850 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: beyond 35 can you actually use these 103 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:36,250 Speaker 2: eggs? 104 00:04:36,339 --> 00:04:38,770 Speaker 2: I don't want to make it so definitive because it 105 00:04:38,779 --> 00:04:42,190 Speaker 2: does differ from women to women and you do hear 106 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: of women in their forties who do successfully conceive. You know, 107 00:04:46,170 --> 00:04:48,050 Speaker 2: if I know of a person who conceived at 50 108 00:04:48,050 --> 00:04:49,750 Speaker 2: as well. But 109 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,690 Speaker 2: the thing is that probabilities and chances do drop. So 110 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:57,980 Speaker 2: we are just trying to maximize the chances that you 111 00:04:57,980 --> 00:05:01,770 Speaker 2: can successfully get pregnant and also deliver a healthy baby. 112 00:05:01,779 --> 00:05:04,430 Speaker 2: And that's why ultimately the message is still about starting 113 00:05:04,430 --> 00:05:08,220 Speaker 2: as early as you can and would like to. So 114 00:05:08,230 --> 00:05:10,500 Speaker 1: after this announcement was made, have you heard of any 115 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:13,260 Speaker 1: sentiments from the ground or from other women out there 116 00:05:13,260 --> 00:05:15,180 Speaker 1: who may have reached out to you with that 117 00:05:15,190 --> 00:05:19,830 Speaker 2: so far. The sentiment has been positive. The actual execution 118 00:05:19,830 --> 00:05:22,730 Speaker 2: of this policy would be next year because we do 119 00:05:22,730 --> 00:05:26,820 Speaker 2: need to work with the medical professionals. We need to 120 00:05:26,820 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: make sure that our fertility health clinics, they know what 121 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 2: are the procedures in place. We also need to make 122 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,849 Speaker 2: sure that there is no 123 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,219 Speaker 2: inappropriate marketing. The reason why we have used the word 124 00:05:37,230 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: elective egg freezing and not social egg freezing is because 125 00:05:40,810 --> 00:05:43,260 Speaker 2: we are not so much promoting it as a 126 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 2: like something you do casually, right? Because like what I mentioned, 127 00:05:47,730 --> 00:05:50,210 Speaker 2: there's a cost of a woman's body. You know, you 128 00:05:50,210 --> 00:05:54,450 Speaker 2: have to stimulate this stimulation and produce the eggs. You 129 00:05:54,450 --> 00:05:58,270 Speaker 2: know the procedure to extract the eggs, it's invasive. It 130 00:05:58,270 --> 00:06:01,850 Speaker 2: is not without downtime to women, it's not without pain. 131 00:06:02,140 --> 00:06:05,049 Speaker 2: And I would imagine that every time a woman undergoes 132 00:06:05,050 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 2: this right, you can imagine your expectations 133 00:06:07,740 --> 00:06:11,310 Speaker 2: right? And you don't want a situation whereby you you 134 00:06:11,310 --> 00:06:14,270 Speaker 2: go through the whole thing, you extract the eggs, you 135 00:06:14,270 --> 00:06:16,950 Speaker 2: store the eggs for years because and then you pay 136 00:06:16,950 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: every year for storage fees 137 00:06:19,339 --> 00:06:21,929 Speaker 2: And then at the end of the chances of success 138 00:06:21,940 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 2: are like actually right now we're talking about on the 139 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,930 Speaker 2: high end maybe 12% success rate 140 00:06:27,310 --> 00:06:28,910 Speaker 1: is about 2 to 12 141 00:06:28,910 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 2: correct. That's what high end is on the top end 142 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: is like 12% so pretty low. Yeah. So imagine if 143 00:06:35,010 --> 00:06:37,580 Speaker 2: if we do not give the proper information and that's 144 00:06:37,580 --> 00:06:39,650 Speaker 2: why I talked about making sure that the marketing is 145 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,500 Speaker 2: appropriate, right? Because you don't want your fertility health professionals 146 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:45,750 Speaker 2: or practitioners to be making 147 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,500 Speaker 2: unrealistic promises promises to women. And imagine if you are 148 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: the 149 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:56,030 Speaker 2: unfortunate. But you know let's say you're under 2% 1 right? 150 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,150 Speaker 2: I mean you go through all that you pay. It's 151 00:06:59,150 --> 00:07:02,140 Speaker 2: not I mean it's like 12 $13,000. 152 00:07:02,140 --> 00:07:03,109 Speaker 1: Five figures is 153 00:07:03,110 --> 00:07:06,260 Speaker 2: Not cheap and you have a 2% chance. I mean 154 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,710 Speaker 2: I just wanna make sure our women are well informed. Yeah. 155 00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:12,250 Speaker 1: That they can manage their expectations and hopes as well. 156 00:07:12,260 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: And I'm sure many women they know about the chances 157 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: of success is not very high per se. But you 158 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: know they're still clinging on to that hope that you know, 159 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,660 Speaker 1: hey maybe it may work because everyone time 160 00:07:23,740 --> 00:07:26,860 Speaker 1: One cycle or one process they actually extract more than 161 00:07:26,860 --> 00:07:27,170 Speaker 1: one 162 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,170 Speaker 1: depending on how your body processes 163 00:07:29,170 --> 00:07:30,490 Speaker 2: it am I right? But 164 00:07:30,500 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: that also depends on luck, depends 165 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: on person. Yeah. 166 00:07:33,770 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: And you know, I just wanted to ask because hazel 167 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,340 Speaker 1: as you know is single. She has announced that guys 168 00:07:39,350 --> 00:07:46,070 Speaker 1: I important information I am married but without kids. And 169 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,650 Speaker 1: I don't know how soon I want to do that 170 00:07:48,940 --> 00:07:51,030 Speaker 1: As of now. But you know we understand that you 171 00:07:51,030 --> 00:07:53,340 Speaker 1: have your kids at 33 and 37 172 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,340 Speaker 2: Slightly older. I think you're right. You're right because by 173 00:07:56,340 --> 00:07:59,140 Speaker 2: the time I delivered my first I was probably about 174 00:07:59,140 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 2: 34 already. So you were pregnant 175 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:03,170 Speaker 1: And about 33 years 176 00:08:03,170 --> 00:08:06,110 Speaker 2: old? My math is yeah, 177 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: it's been 178 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,340 Speaker 2: some time, you 179 00:08:08,340 --> 00:08:10,970 Speaker 1: Know, at that age some people might say that's a 180 00:08:10,970 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: little bit late or you know, there's some concern that 181 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,990 Speaker 1: you know being pregnant and delivering your 30s. So when 182 00:08:15,990 --> 00:08:17,820 Speaker 1: you were in your late 20s, for example, you know 183 00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:20,710 Speaker 1: near our age, was there any concern or worry that 184 00:08:20,710 --> 00:08:22,090 Speaker 1: you have to hurry or anything like that? 185 00:08:22,100 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: Actually to be honest on hindsight, right? If I had 186 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,930 Speaker 2: a chance to redo it all over again, first things first, 187 00:08:26,930 --> 00:08:29,270 Speaker 2: I love my two kids. So you know, even if 188 00:08:29,270 --> 00:08:31,380 Speaker 2: I reverse Gaston and everything, I still want my beautiful 189 00:08:31,380 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: two kids, right? My lovely to kids. 190 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,740 Speaker 2: But to be honest, if I had a time, if 191 00:08:35,740 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: I had the option to go back in time, I 192 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: would have started having Children earlier. And I mean it 193 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,450 Speaker 2: not because I'm here on your podcast, you know, talking 194 00:08:44,450 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 2: about elective egg freezing, but because after I had, 195 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,910 Speaker 2: after I had my Children, I realized that there was 196 00:08:49,910 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: such an important part of my life really they are 197 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,350 Speaker 2: who and what I look forward to the day. You know, 198 00:08:54,350 --> 00:08:55,569 Speaker 2: I wake up, I want to see my child, I 199 00:08:55,570 --> 00:08:58,429 Speaker 2: want to be the first phase my my child sees 200 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,370 Speaker 2: sometimes there's a little bit of like rivalry between me 201 00:09:01,370 --> 00:09:05,570 Speaker 2: and my husband which parent they prefer more. So occasionally 202 00:09:05,570 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: I would like a t shirt that says mommy spares 203 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:07,980 Speaker 2: or something. And 204 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,170 Speaker 1: then like 205 00:09:09,179 --> 00:09:12,130 Speaker 2: I said you 206 00:09:12,130 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: just wish you can spend more time with them. Is 207 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,050 Speaker 1: that why you wish you started 208 00:09:15,059 --> 00:09:17,089 Speaker 2: Earlier? And a lot of parents feel the same way. 209 00:09:17,090 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: I'm sure I said about starting earlier because I wish 210 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: I had the option to have more kids. I mean 211 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,150 Speaker 2: now I'm 43. 212 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:24,050 Speaker 2: I can tell you. 213 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 2: I'm still 214 00:09:25,090 --> 00:09:26,179 Speaker 1: thinking about. 215 00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:28,939 Speaker 2: Yes I asked my husband my husband look at me. 216 00:09:28,950 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 2: Are you sure not you know kind of thing? Because 217 00:09:31,730 --> 00:09:34,050 Speaker 2: like what I mentioned probability does decrease. 218 00:09:34,050 --> 00:09:35,860 Speaker 1: But you mentioned there's someone who got pregnant at the 219 00:09:35,860 --> 00:09:36,650 Speaker 1: age of 50. 220 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,969 Speaker 2: True. So she's very very lucky lady. Yes. And I 221 00:09:40,970 --> 00:09:43,350 Speaker 2: wish that there are more lucky ladies like her. But 222 00:09:43,350 --> 00:09:46,100 Speaker 2: like what I mentioned it's not just about the success 223 00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:48,850 Speaker 2: rate of getting pregnant. It's also about 224 00:09:48,940 --> 00:09:51,930 Speaker 2: you know carrying the baby to full term and delivering 225 00:09:51,929 --> 00:09:54,010 Speaker 2: a healthy child. I mean you want the best for 226 00:09:54,010 --> 00:09:56,550 Speaker 2: your child. Right? So I think where mothers and and 227 00:09:56,550 --> 00:09:59,390 Speaker 2: and couples can control as much as possible. I think 228 00:09:59,390 --> 00:10:02,490 Speaker 2: starting early the medical professionals will tell you is the 229 00:10:02,490 --> 00:10:03,550 Speaker 2: best la so 230 00:10:03,940 --> 00:10:06,210 Speaker 2: back to your question. I wish I had started earlier 231 00:10:06,220 --> 00:10:08,610 Speaker 2: so that I have two kids. Now maybe I could 232 00:10:08,610 --> 00:10:10,929 Speaker 2: have had three, maybe four. I don't know what 233 00:10:10,929 --> 00:10:13,710 Speaker 1: you would tell me as well. Start now 234 00:10:13,820 --> 00:10:15,110 Speaker 2: indirectly. Yes. 235 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: So question if E. F. Was made legal back when 236 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,100 Speaker 1: you were in your twenties, would you have gone for 237 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: this 238 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: Procedure for myself? I was lucky because I met my husband, 239 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,580 Speaker 2: I was married at 26 I think where this feedback 240 00:10:28,580 --> 00:10:31,429 Speaker 2: was the most salient was for women who were already 241 00:10:31,429 --> 00:10:35,170 Speaker 2: in their thirties and they haven't met their Mr. Right? 242 00:10:35,179 --> 00:10:37,540 Speaker 2: And I don't think we also want women to go 243 00:10:37,540 --> 00:10:38,809 Speaker 2: around saying I want a baby, I want a baby. 244 00:10:38,809 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: Let me find a man. Right? I mean, I don't 245 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 2: think that's what is 246 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,620 Speaker 1: the other way you find a good man first before 247 00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:43,939 Speaker 1: you have a 248 00:10:43,940 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: baby, but they want to preserve optionality. Which is what 249 00:10:47,130 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: this entire E. F. Policy is about. So, and we 250 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,890 Speaker 2: do know that there are women who go overseas to 251 00:10:53,890 --> 00:10:55,990 Speaker 2: do it before we made this announcement. Yes. 252 00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:58,770 Speaker 1: Yes. I I saw this article where these women when 253 00:10:58,770 --> 00:10:59,740 Speaker 1: this woman went to 254 00:10:59,750 --> 00:11:00,550 Speaker 2: Bangkok 255 00:11:00,740 --> 00:11:01,220 Speaker 2: to 256 00:11:01,220 --> 00:11:04,030 Speaker 1: have her eggs frozen because back then it was not 257 00:11:04,030 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: legal in Singapore. 258 00:11:04,970 --> 00:11:08,570 Speaker 2: So what happens is that when we do not formally 259 00:11:08,580 --> 00:11:11,239 Speaker 2: announced as a policy that's available in Singapore? Like what 260 00:11:11,250 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: you read women to go overseas to do it and 261 00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:18,970 Speaker 2: and we can't quite control what happens overseas. So do 262 00:11:18,970 --> 00:11:24,300 Speaker 2: you meet an ethical doctor? Is the procedure safe? Are 263 00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:28,420 Speaker 2: you being charged appropriately? And then subsequently the storage fees 264 00:11:28,420 --> 00:11:30,510 Speaker 2: and everything because it's not just a one time like 265 00:11:30,510 --> 00:11:33,380 Speaker 2: you do. And then wow, you know, you know babies 266 00:11:33,380 --> 00:11:34,460 Speaker 2: born kind of thing. Right? 267 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,729 Speaker 2: So that's why we felt that I think we should 268 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:41,670 Speaker 2: make the appropriate announcements to allow it in Singapore so 269 00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 2: that women who want to do it can do it 270 00:11:44,450 --> 00:11:49,150 Speaker 2: with the necessary information and awareness and within all the 271 00:11:49,150 --> 00:11:51,780 Speaker 2: safety and quality checks that we can have available here 272 00:11:51,780 --> 00:11:52,290 Speaker 2: in Singapore. 273 00:11:52,290 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: That's a good point actually. I feel like it's not 274 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: just for single women as well. Maybe for married women 275 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,050 Speaker 1: like Azura, 276 00:11:57,140 --> 00:12:00,090 Speaker 1: maybe you have been married for about four years, three, 277 00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: almost three years and for women like as well, maybe 278 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:05,530 Speaker 1: you know you want to focus a bit more on 279 00:12:05,530 --> 00:12:07,370 Speaker 1: your career first, but you know you want to keep 280 00:12:07,380 --> 00:12:09,470 Speaker 1: eventually but when is that time going to come? You 281 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: don't know yet. So would this be an option for you? 282 00:12:12,740 --> 00:12:15,969 Speaker 1: I have been thinking about it to be honest, understanding 283 00:12:15,970 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: the fact as well that it's invasive that you have 284 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: to jab 285 00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: regularly that the harvesting is that I think emotional process 286 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: because it's aching to the process of an IVF. And 287 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,670 Speaker 1: I think we've seen many women go through IVF and 288 00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:31,350 Speaker 1: I think it's a lot it causes them a lot 289 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,989 Speaker 1: of not physical pain. I think they can handle that, 290 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: but a lot of emotional sometimes disappointment correct. That's right. 291 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,350 Speaker 1: A lot of hopes and things like that. 292 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,750 Speaker 1: So as a moment, I'm not too sure because I 293 00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:43,059 Speaker 1: have those thoughts as well, you know 294 00:12:43,140 --> 00:12:45,420 Speaker 1: Like for example, I want three kids, I don't want 295 00:12:45,420 --> 00:12:48,130 Speaker 1: to start now, but I may want three kids and 296 00:12:48,140 --> 00:12:51,179 Speaker 1: I want some years between them, which means that by 297 00:12:51,179 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: the time I get to the last one, I might 298 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: be late in my 30s. Yeah. And I don't know 299 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,190 Speaker 1: if that's possible anymore, you 300 00:12:57,190 --> 00:13:00,450 Speaker 2: know? Yeah. It's a good thing that you're thinking about 301 00:13:00,450 --> 00:13:04,260 Speaker 2: it many times. I think we think about things sequentially. 302 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 2: So it's like, okay, I graduate from school, get a 303 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,459 Speaker 2: job and then I want to achieve all these milestones 304 00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: in my career and then somehow or other along the way, 305 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,290 Speaker 2: I'll meet Mr right? You know, and then somehow or other, 306 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:19,010 Speaker 2: you know, we would have this like discussion and then 307 00:13:19,010 --> 00:13:21,059 Speaker 2: by each but we would decide. 308 00:13:21,140 --> 00:13:24,550 Speaker 2: And then, miraculously x number of years later, we will 309 00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:25,059 Speaker 2: succeed 310 00:13:25,140 --> 00:13:30,870 Speaker 2: at, you know, conceiving. And then nine months later, pop 311 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,910 Speaker 2: the healthy child, right? Everything pre planned, everything, you know? 312 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,630 Speaker 2: But we all know that life much as we like it. 313 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,940 Speaker 2: Sometimes it doesn't happen in a linear fashion, right? So 314 00:13:41,950 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: what happens if you don't meet mr right at the 315 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,099 Speaker 2: right time? Exactly. Or the conditions and whatsoever, maybe, I 316 00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:50,030 Speaker 2: don't know, maybe you're overseas, Maybe you don't have the 317 00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:51,060 Speaker 2: family support system. 318 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,660 Speaker 2: So many things can happen, right? So actually, we should 319 00:13:53,660 --> 00:13:56,750 Speaker 2: trust ourselves. Women are very good at multitasking, to be honest. 320 00:13:56,750 --> 00:13:58,860 Speaker 2: You know, we can decide what to shop what dress 321 00:13:58,860 --> 00:14:01,190 Speaker 2: to buy. And then the market everything all the time, right? 322 00:14:01,190 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 2: So it's like you can actually multitask. So if we 323 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 2: are so capable of doing managing all these other things 324 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,059 Speaker 2: in our lives, right? 325 00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: We could perhaps manage work and having a child and 326 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: managing a family at the same time. You know, you 327 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,310 Speaker 2: don't know until you try. So you know, I thought 328 00:14:16,309 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 2: that's something, you know, if I would tell my younger 329 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,020 Speaker 2: self because what I did was exactly like sequential. I thought, 330 00:14:22,030 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 2: you know, I get married to, right? So eventually whatsoever. So, 331 00:14:27,010 --> 00:14:29,210 Speaker 2: and I just put it off, was 332 00:14:29,210 --> 00:14:30,170 Speaker 1: it because of your career 333 00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:33,380 Speaker 2: career? And I was I wasn't in politics, I wasn't, 334 00:14:33,390 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: I was just in a job that required me to 335 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,860 Speaker 2: travel a lot. So 336 00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:40,590 Speaker 2: it was so ironic on hindsight. Now, you know that 337 00:14:40,590 --> 00:14:44,790 Speaker 2: I found I was pregnant in the plane just before 338 00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:46,860 Speaker 2: a flight just before a flight. So I was taking 339 00:14:46,860 --> 00:14:49,359 Speaker 2: the morning flight to London, I was going on a 340 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,350 Speaker 2: nine day road show and I did my pregnancy test 341 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,690 Speaker 2: at one a.m. In the morning because so funny, I 342 00:14:54,690 --> 00:15:00,830 Speaker 2: had pimples. So I'm not that they just say that okay, okay, 343 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,109 Speaker 2: never mind, it's okay. I can recover from that. So 344 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,770 Speaker 2: I had a lot of pimples and I'm not the 345 00:15:05,770 --> 00:15:08,500 Speaker 2: type that normally gets pimples, so I was like, we 346 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: can tell thank you. And then my husband was like 347 00:15:10,770 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: you got pimples. I 348 00:15:13,850 --> 00:15:14,450 Speaker 1: and then he 349 00:15:14,450 --> 00:15:16,370 Speaker 2: got me a pregnancy test kit. I was like wow, 350 00:15:16,380 --> 00:15:18,470 Speaker 2: this guy knows a little bit more than I do. 351 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: You never thought of 352 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,100 Speaker 1: like getting a test it for yourself? 353 00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:24,300 Speaker 2: No, I felt perfectly normal as the pimples. So so 354 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: I did a test kit and I was like you 355 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: know kind of thing and 356 00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:30,910 Speaker 2: positive where then I was like no time. We got 357 00:15:30,910 --> 00:15:33,700 Speaker 2: to pack my bag to travel in accounting. But I 358 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,060 Speaker 2: remember when I was traveling and I was I was 359 00:15:36,060 --> 00:15:38,660 Speaker 2: going through the x ray machines you know at the 360 00:15:38,660 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: airports right? I was like should I actually walked through? 361 00:15:41,650 --> 00:15:45,230 Speaker 2: Yeah but at first I didn't think about things like 362 00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:45,660 Speaker 2: that 363 00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:48,340 Speaker 2: but after I came back did my checks and yes 364 00:15:48,340 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 2: I'm pregnant, definitely pregnant. Not some pregnancy test kit, false 365 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:52,460 Speaker 2: positive kind of thing you know 366 00:15:52,940 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: And I decided that when I travel next time I'm 367 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,190 Speaker 2: going to be make sure my baby's safe. So when 368 00:15:58,190 --> 00:16:00,110 Speaker 2: I get to the airport I'm saying like pregnant women 369 00:16:00,110 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 2: can I you know do other you know you can 370 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,020 Speaker 2: frisk me but you know don't make me go to 371 00:16:04,020 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: the extreme machine these kind of things. But coming back 372 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,870 Speaker 2: to the point I didn't plan. So actually by God's Grace, 373 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,010 Speaker 2: I got pregnant at 33 actually if I hadn't gotten 374 00:16:15,010 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: pregnant then 375 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: I'll probably be like past 35. Not thought about it 376 00:16:18,650 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: and then like thinking that I have time forever on 377 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,370 Speaker 2: my hands and that chance and luck will forever be 378 00:16:25,370 --> 00:16:27,790 Speaker 2: with me and then maybe I wouldn't have two beautiful 379 00:16:27,790 --> 00:16:29,970 Speaker 2: kids that I have now, you know, so you didn't 380 00:16:29,970 --> 00:16:32,540 Speaker 1: face any difficulties while you were trying to conceive for you. 381 00:16:32,540 --> 00:16:33,150 Speaker 1: It was like, 382 00:16:33,150 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: I didn't think about 383 00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:35,700 Speaker 1: it wasn't. But 384 00:16:35,710 --> 00:16:37,610 Speaker 2: You know, if you think about it, I got married 385 00:16:37,610 --> 00:16:39,190 Speaker 2: 26 by the time I had a kid, 386 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,350 Speaker 1: seven years down. 387 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,900 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a short time, you know, it's not 388 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: a short time time flies by and before you know it. 389 00:16:46,370 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: So in 390 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,030 Speaker 1: this seven years, you really never thought about planning for pregnancy? 391 00:16:50,330 --> 00:16:53,850 Speaker 2: Just putting it because I was overseas. I was traveling. 392 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,540 Speaker 2: I it was just me and my husband. No other 393 00:16:56,540 --> 00:16:58,470 Speaker 2: person that no other person in the house, 394 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,500 Speaker 2: right? It was only after I got pregnant delivered a 395 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:03,220 Speaker 2: kid and I was like, wow. So how 396 00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: But 397 00:17:04,770 --> 00:17:08,909 Speaker 2: but you see you do figure things out along the way, 398 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: you know, after the kid comes along the you know, 399 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 2: my husband sonny realizes he's a father. I suddenly realized 400 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:15,860 Speaker 2: I'm a mom and then we just have to 401 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:17,290 Speaker 2: learn. 402 00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 1: So a question for our listeners out there was this 403 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: something that you wish you learned about your own body 404 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:23,950 Speaker 1: before or after the pregnant, 405 00:17:23,950 --> 00:17:28,710 Speaker 2: definitely, definitely. So for example, I think fertility health screening 406 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,100 Speaker 2: people really only start thinking about fertility health screening when 407 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:32,489 Speaker 2: they think they have a problem when 408 00:17:32,490 --> 00:17:33,270 Speaker 1: they start trying 409 00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:33,859 Speaker 2: already 410 00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:37,169 Speaker 2: many times. And then nothing happens, Right. And by the 411 00:17:37,170 --> 00:17:40,030 Speaker 2: time that happens, many years have passed And maybe you 412 00:17:40,030 --> 00:17:40,450 Speaker 2: have 413 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,700 Speaker 2: you are now a little bit more mature and advanced 414 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:45,660 Speaker 2: in your age. Right. And also because it is it 415 00:17:45,660 --> 00:17:48,780 Speaker 2: is people who have difficulties then they go there is 416 00:17:48,780 --> 00:17:52,090 Speaker 2: some sort of a stigma around fertility health screening. As 417 00:17:52,090 --> 00:17:55,010 Speaker 2: if only the people who have trouble then should go 418 00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:57,020 Speaker 2: and consult a fertility health practice. 419 00:17:57,020 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: But that's not the case. 420 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,250 Speaker 2: That's what I guess. I mean we see a doctor 421 00:17:59,250 --> 00:18:01,260 Speaker 2: for all sorts of things. Right? 422 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,109 Speaker 2: So fertility health screening should be something that is quite 423 00:18:04,109 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: normal that couples think about and it's not about like 424 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 2: whether it's your fault or my fault a lot of 425 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,470 Speaker 2: times fertility health is associated with women. Yes, but that's 426 00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 2: not my point like you cannot conceive. 427 00:18:14,410 --> 00:18:16,109 Speaker 1: No, that that's not true. That's not true. 428 00:18:16,109 --> 00:18:20,190 Speaker 2: And guys out there, I'm sorry. Maybe you also need 429 00:18:20,190 --> 00:18:22,650 Speaker 2: to go for fertility health screening. Exactly. It takes two hands. 430 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,310 Speaker 2: So I think men and women couples should look at 431 00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:30,030 Speaker 2: it as something they can jointly do. The gentleman can 432 00:18:30,030 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 2: go to the urologist, women can go to a tiny, 433 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,170 Speaker 2: you know and go to the fertility health clinic together. 434 00:18:35,170 --> 00:18:37,690 Speaker 2: Do it as part and parcel of just normal check up. 435 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:40,010 Speaker 2: You know. And if you find out anything that comes 436 00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:43,460 Speaker 2: up that is worrisome, maybe you can address it early. Right. 437 00:18:43,540 --> 00:18:47,050 Speaker 2: And as we all know for all sorts of medical issues. 438 00:18:47,340 --> 00:18:50,500 Speaker 2: Knowing early is always the best thing because then you 439 00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:52,930 Speaker 2: know what options are available, what was the next step 440 00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:54,020 Speaker 2: and everything? 441 00:18:54,030 --> 00:18:56,050 Speaker 1: I think aside from couples, we have a note from 442 00:18:56,050 --> 00:18:59,870 Speaker 1: our producer here a confession. She's 26 years old this 443 00:18:59,869 --> 00:19:02,420 Speaker 1: year single with no plans to find a partner yet 444 00:19:02,420 --> 00:19:05,550 Speaker 1: because she's more focused on her career and building her savings. 445 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,850 Speaker 1: Her last full body medical checkup was during her 446 00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:12,940 Speaker 1: university admission years ago And back then she didn't even 447 00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:15,350 Speaker 1: have a follow up with the doctor on the results. 448 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,350 Speaker 1: So she also only got her HPV jet because the 449 00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:22,070 Speaker 1: government sent her a letter and encouraged her government. I 450 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,780 Speaker 1: mean it happens, right. Too many people like myself included. 451 00:19:24,790 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: So she thinks that she knows she's healthy right now. 452 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,770 Speaker 1: But she really would never know about her health conditions 453 00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:33,730 Speaker 1: unless she goes for a proper checkup. And she is 454 00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: sure that there are many girls out there like herself 455 00:19:36,540 --> 00:19:40,340 Speaker 1: actually. In fact, our very own dear jermaine back in january, 456 00:19:40,340 --> 00:19:43,210 Speaker 1: late january this year. She found that she had a 457 00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:49,670 Speaker 1: demo exist about 6.6 centimeters, pretty big, huge. She found 458 00:19:49,670 --> 00:19:51,830 Speaker 1: that she had this cyst in her body and she 459 00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:54,410 Speaker 1: didn't know about it until she felt like severe pain. 460 00:19:54,420 --> 00:19:57,260 Speaker 1: And she was like, what's going on? She popped to painkillers. 461 00:19:57,270 --> 00:20:00,660 Speaker 1: She was on the radio that night, right? Pop to painkillers. 462 00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:02,649 Speaker 1: And then the pain was really for a bit. So 463 00:20:02,650 --> 00:20:04,729 Speaker 1: she thought like, oh that was great. I think it 464 00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:08,050 Speaker 1: was also because the week before that she took her 465 00:20:08,060 --> 00:20:11,150 Speaker 1: HPV jab. So they said that you know, some crimes 466 00:20:11,150 --> 00:20:12,060 Speaker 1: might be a side effect. 467 00:20:12,210 --> 00:20:12,890 Speaker 2: She 468 00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:15,310 Speaker 1: thought it was that that's right. But after she went home, 469 00:20:15,310 --> 00:20:19,050 Speaker 1: the pain was so crucial that she decided that she 470 00:20:19,050 --> 00:20:21,250 Speaker 1: needs to see a doctor. So sent her to the 471 00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: a and she basically spend chinese new year in bed 472 00:20:24,330 --> 00:20:28,020 Speaker 1: after the surgery. It was an emergency surgery actually. So 473 00:20:28,020 --> 00:20:30,430 Speaker 1: this is like a reminder for all our listeners out 474 00:20:30,430 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: there to always get your body check up to prevent 475 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: this kind of situations from happening. I think Jermaine was lucky, 476 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,510 Speaker 1: she went to the Andy right away and got treated 477 00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:39,930 Speaker 1: right away. But what if some people don't have 478 00:20:39,940 --> 00:20:42,230 Speaker 2: that kind of time, Right? So 479 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,300 Speaker 1: what would you say to women like our producer who 480 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:46,930 Speaker 1: do not have a habit of going for regular check ups? 481 00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:50,830 Speaker 1: I have to admit myself included. You don't have that habit, 482 00:20:50,830 --> 00:20:52,990 Speaker 2: do you have to have it at my age? Yes, 483 00:20:53,310 --> 00:20:54,900 Speaker 2: but back 484 00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:55,969 Speaker 1: When you were in your 20s, 485 00:20:55,980 --> 00:20:59,780 Speaker 2: you see when we are younger, you tend to feel 486 00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:00,300 Speaker 2: two things. 487 00:21:00,540 --> 00:21:02,650 Speaker 2: One is that you tend to feel that you are 488 00:21:02,660 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: in control of your body. There's many things you can do, right? 489 00:21:05,810 --> 00:21:07,460 Speaker 2: You can run, you can jump, you can do all 490 00:21:07,460 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 2: sorts of things you feel invincible 491 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,390 Speaker 2: as the decades passed. And I'm saying that because two 492 00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:14,939 Speaker 2: decades have passed since I was that just now when 493 00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:16,650 Speaker 2: I was sitting down here also like to make sure 494 00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: I don't over strain myself, don't spread my back, make 495 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:20,380 Speaker 2: sure my feet don't go to sleep. You know, like 496 00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 2: you when you get older, you no longer feel so invincible. Right? 497 00:21:25,290 --> 00:21:27,730 Speaker 2: And the second thing is that ailments and all sorts 498 00:21:27,730 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 2: of other things do crop up which are not not 499 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:37,090 Speaker 2: in your control, right? And and medical options actually do 500 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: change with your age. 501 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 2: What is something that you could do for yourself when 502 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,910 Speaker 2: you're in your 20s may no longer be available for 503 00:21:44,910 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 2: you when you're in your 40s. Like just now we're 504 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:47,669 Speaker 2: talking about the 505 00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:51,850 Speaker 2: success rate of conception, right? It's a biological fact. It's 506 00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:55,830 Speaker 2: not an opinion. It's not that I want. Therefore I can, 507 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,150 Speaker 2: you know, So if we have the means and health 508 00:22:00,150 --> 00:22:02,350 Speaker 2: checkups are not, you know, 509 00:22:02,740 --> 00:22:05,170 Speaker 2: they are not outreach for many singaporeans. 510 00:22:06,140 --> 00:22:09,490 Speaker 2: We should try to normalize the conversations we have around 511 00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:13,470 Speaker 2: fertility health checks. We should go for them and consult 512 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,649 Speaker 2: the doctor. It's all private and confidential anyway and just 513 00:22:17,650 --> 00:22:19,629 Speaker 2: find out if there are any issues that you should 514 00:22:19,630 --> 00:22:22,030 Speaker 2: be concerned about what you can do about it and 515 00:22:22,030 --> 00:22:23,859 Speaker 2: what the options and then start 516 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,350 Speaker 2: thinking you don't have to decide there and then, okay, 517 00:22:26,940 --> 00:22:31,899 Speaker 2: maybe now let's do it. But you know like maybe 518 00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:34,459 Speaker 2: have a thought about whether or not it is something 519 00:22:34,460 --> 00:22:37,409 Speaker 2: that you would like to have a child in as 520 00:22:37,410 --> 00:22:40,540 Speaker 2: part of your your your your plans with your partner. 521 00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:42,290 Speaker 2: And let's start thinking a little bit like, you know 522 00:22:42,290 --> 00:22:43,740 Speaker 2: what you're saying, you know like if you want to 523 00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:46,380 Speaker 2: have three kids then you need to do a bit 524 00:22:46,380 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 2: of 525 00:22:47,030 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 2: calculation, right? I mean that's that's that's 526 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:49,530 Speaker 1: a fact of 527 00:22:49,530 --> 00:22:50,670 Speaker 2: life. 528 00:22:50,740 --> 00:22:54,010 Speaker 2: So have those conversations with your partner, have those conversations 529 00:22:54,010 --> 00:22:56,050 Speaker 2: with a medical professional. And I think 530 00:22:56,540 --> 00:22:57,940 Speaker 2: at the end of the day after you have all 531 00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 2: those conversations you have that information, then you'll be able 532 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 2: to make an informed choice. I 533 00:23:02,369 --> 00:23:04,780 Speaker 1: think the bottom line is there's no shame in getting 534 00:23:04,780 --> 00:23:07,860 Speaker 1: a checkup. It's better to know early. That's an important 535 00:23:07,859 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 2: point. Exactly. 536 00:23:09,170 --> 00:23:11,730 Speaker 1: So when it comes to elective, egg freezing, I think 537 00:23:11,730 --> 00:23:14,090 Speaker 1: it's a huge step forward already for Singapore. That this 538 00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:16,890 Speaker 1: is has been endorsed the white paper and I feel 539 00:23:16,890 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: like in the 50 years to come, we can make 540 00:23:18,850 --> 00:23:22,780 Speaker 1: even more changes for women here in Singapore. So last 541 00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: but not least can just quickly share. What change do 542 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,379 Speaker 1: we hope this policy can bring about for women? I 543 00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:30,750 Speaker 1: think options are always great. It doesn't mean that it's 544 00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: your backup plan or anything like that, you know. But 545 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,050 Speaker 1: having an option is great. 546 00:23:34,050 --> 00:23:35,060 Speaker 2: And being 547 00:23:35,060 --> 00:23:37,540 Speaker 1: given the option also gives you the power to sort 548 00:23:37,540 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: of 549 00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:39,590 Speaker 1: feel like you can 550 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: you know have 551 00:23:40,530 --> 00:23:43,670 Speaker 1: A little bit more control even though we're still at 2-12%, 552 00:23:43,670 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: you know, but it gives you that little bit of 553 00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:49,219 Speaker 1: hope or you know, a little bit of time to 554 00:23:49,220 --> 00:23:52,610 Speaker 1: plan because I think circumstances for different people are different 555 00:23:52,619 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: and I would be thinking about it for myself honestly 556 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,770 Speaker 1: after shelling said, you know, she wished that she had 557 00:23:57,770 --> 00:23:58,669 Speaker 1: started earlier. 558 00:23:58,940 --> 00:24:01,180 Speaker 1: And I've heard this many times at this point. Right? 559 00:24:01,190 --> 00:24:03,409 Speaker 1: So I don't want to be late in my thirties 560 00:24:03,410 --> 00:24:05,619 Speaker 1: and saying to someone else or I wish I had 561 00:24:05,619 --> 00:24:08,530 Speaker 1: started earlier because, but at this point I already know this. 562 00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:10,660 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? So I'll be thinking about this. 563 00:24:10,660 --> 00:24:13,230 Speaker 1: But I do think as well that my main takeaway 564 00:24:13,230 --> 00:24:16,690 Speaker 1: from today is that everybody should go for fertility check 565 00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:19,100 Speaker 1: and know what's going on with your body because you 566 00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:21,460 Speaker 1: really don't know what's going on inside. And I think 567 00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:24,020 Speaker 1: when you are able to tackle problems early, that's the 568 00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 2: best. I know that when couples think about starting a family, 569 00:24:28,890 --> 00:24:31,940 Speaker 2: sometimes it's not just a decision about having a baby. 570 00:24:31,950 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: They also think about what happens after the baby arrives, 571 00:24:35,050 --> 00:24:37,830 Speaker 2: who is going to take care of the baby. Um, 572 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,209 Speaker 2: some couples even like for plan many steps like, oh, preschool, 573 00:24:42,210 --> 00:24:44,260 Speaker 2: you know, who is, you know, do I need to 574 00:24:44,260 --> 00:24:46,459 Speaker 2: get a helper then actually, which in law is going 575 00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:48,890 Speaker 2: to come and stay and take care of the child 576 00:24:48,890 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 2: and then preschool options and the primary school options and 577 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,540 Speaker 2: the secondary school while you'll be amazed, you know, Singapore, 578 00:24:53,550 --> 00:24:55,510 Speaker 2: parents can extrapolate. Oh 579 00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:57,100 Speaker 1: yeah, all the way to university. 580 00:24:57,510 --> 00:25:02,230 Speaker 2: Yes. So sometimes parents do do that. Um, nothing wrong. 581 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,109 Speaker 2: Thinking through is always good, but I just wanted to 582 00:25:05,109 --> 00:25:08,270 Speaker 2: share that. Sometimes one may get 583 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,169 Speaker 2: sort of like negative thoughts or things that impact your confidence. 584 00:25:12,180 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 2: You might think that, oh, maybe I don't have this, this, 585 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,899 Speaker 2: this and that yet. So I cannot do this now. 586 00:25:16,910 --> 00:25:20,770 Speaker 2: You know, like, oh, I haven't got all the lego 587 00:25:20,770 --> 00:25:23,140 Speaker 2: bits in place. You know, I haven't decided on whether 588 00:25:23,140 --> 00:25:25,050 Speaker 2: I need help. I haven't decided whether which is going 589 00:25:25,050 --> 00:25:26,700 Speaker 2: to stay with me. I haven't decided which preschool, where 590 00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 2: should I move to? Oh my gosh, You know, like, 591 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,649 Speaker 2: Like primary one registration. What, what I'm trying to say 592 00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 2: is that 593 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,290 Speaker 2: there are many things we can think about, but let's 594 00:25:35,290 --> 00:25:40,270 Speaker 2: be positive and have confidence that as long as couples 595 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,790 Speaker 2: talk to each other and actually Singapore many of our policies, 596 00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:46,780 Speaker 2: they are made for families and we're working with community 597 00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:49,300 Speaker 2: hall of society who have government effort to make sure 598 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:52,460 Speaker 2: that our couples are well supported when they have a family. 599 00:25:52,540 --> 00:25:54,850 Speaker 2: So for example, where I am at the mystery of 600 00:25:54,850 --> 00:25:57,730 Speaker 2: social family development, we are very focused on making sure that, 601 00:25:57,740 --> 00:26:01,389 Speaker 2: you know affordability, availability and quality of preschools is there 602 00:26:01,390 --> 00:26:04,260 Speaker 2: so that our parents don't need to overly worry about 603 00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:05,670 Speaker 2: preschool options for their Children 604 00:26:05,740 --> 00:26:08,500 Speaker 2: and I think everyone knows that our education system in 605 00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:10,950 Speaker 2: Singapore is world class is really world class. So you 606 00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:14,500 Speaker 2: don't really have to overly worry, you know, so just 607 00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,820 Speaker 2: get started about thinking about having a child and I 608 00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:22,100 Speaker 2: hope that this announcement about elective egg freezing is another 609 00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: step towards giving optionality to our couples for sure. 610 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,890 Speaker 2: So that at the end of the biological clock is 611 00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 2: not something that works 612 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 2: you know, entirely against you and that you have no 613 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,750 Speaker 2: way and no control to get it right for yourself. 614 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,340 Speaker 2: I think that what we're trying to do so to 615 00:26:36,340 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: sum it up, I feel that the ef actually empowers 616 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,180 Speaker 1: women and give women more confidence in a sense, you know, 617 00:26:42,190 --> 00:26:45,990 Speaker 1: I mean the success rate aside, I feel like you 618 00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:48,770 Speaker 1: have that option and you are more empowered by that. 619 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,150 Speaker 1: So thank you so much feeling for today. I think 620 00:26:51,150 --> 00:26:53,429 Speaker 1: I learned so much about the es thank you for 621 00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:55,500 Speaker 1: sharing your thoughts with us. Pleasure! Pleasure. 622 00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 2: You can get started early to get started 623 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,670 Speaker 1: early. 624 00:26:59,740 --> 00:27:01,709 Speaker 1: Alright, thank you so much for tuning into this episode 625 00:27:01,710 --> 00:27:04,369 Speaker 1: of harsh podcast. Don't forget to follow us on instagram 626 00:27:04,380 --> 00:27:06,870 Speaker 1: at its clarity dot co for more updates. That's right 627 00:27:06,869 --> 00:27:08,670 Speaker 1: on youtube as well and you can listen to us 628 00:27:08,670 --> 00:27:11,740 Speaker 1: on me, listen on Apple podcast on Spotify and don't 629 00:27:11,740 --> 00:27:13,659 Speaker 1: forget to turn on the notification bell. 630 00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:15,690 Speaker 1: So you know every time we drop a new episode, 631 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,510 Speaker 1: once again I'm hazel, I'm a zero and I'm shilling 632 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,260 Speaker 1: and thank you for tuning into this episode of cavities. 633 00:27:22,740 --> 00:27:24,450 Speaker 1: See you next time.