Speaker 1: Hey sonya and welcome back to another episode of Men
Speaker 1: explain
Speaker 1: now we have a super special guest here today and
Speaker 1: he wears many hats by the way, I'm super impressed.
Speaker 1: He is not just an economist, a professor, a husband,
Speaker 1: a father, he's James lim. Welcome.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for having me. I'm not so
Speaker 2: sure if I deserve that extensive introduction. But yes, I
Speaker 2: wear many hats but I think many of us do
Speaker 2: these days.
Speaker 1: Tell us more about yourself. I mean aside from all
Speaker 1: this stuff that we already know
Speaker 2: these days, I like to think of myself primarily as
Speaker 2: a father rather than anything else. And I see that
Speaker 2: as my main contribution to the extension of some, some
Speaker 2: legacy if you will of course I also am a
Speaker 2: representative in so that's a big part of my duties
Speaker 2: and I'm also a teacher and educator
Speaker 2: at the university.
Speaker 1: How do you do all that man? Seriously?
Speaker 2: You don't get as much sleep as you
Speaker 1: like.
Speaker 2: You asked for indulgence especially from family. So thankfully my daughter,
Speaker 2: she's 2.5 so she doesn't quite understand
Speaker 2: the idea of compromise quite yet. So I take advantage
Speaker 2: of that. Well while she isn't always as demanding of time.
Speaker 1: Fantastic. Well I'm sure you get to spend a little
Speaker 1: bit more time with her like on the weekends, especially
Speaker 1: like
Speaker 1: how do you juggle? Yeah,
Speaker 2: so this is quite a bit of trying to integrate
Speaker 2: activities that I have to do both for my official
Speaker 2: duties as well as just spending time with the family.
Speaker 2: So one of the things for instance, last weekend, one
Speaker 2: of the things that we do is we walk around
Speaker 2: the estate and we just make sure that everything is
Speaker 2: in order.
Speaker 2: So last week I was able to bring my family
Speaker 2: with me and so she got to play at the playground,
Speaker 2: inspect the playground while I went about doing my regular day.
Speaker 1: It's important inspecting the playground. It's a key.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so it's a proof of concept and make
Speaker 2: my money is literally where my mouth is. So we've
Speaker 2: got to make sure that things are, you know, in
Speaker 2: shape and safe, more importantly,
Speaker 1: look, you know, being a politician that entails a lot,
Speaker 1: I'm sure and you know, it's almost like a 24
Speaker 1: 7 sort of job for you as well as we
Speaker 1: were talking about earlier. Tell us a fun fact about yourself,
Speaker 1: like maybe from the past, you know, tell us a
Speaker 1: bit more before you became who you are right now,
Speaker 2: people who know me think of myself as
Speaker 2: rather boring. I like to do very boring professor, real things.
Speaker 1: Okay, what is that? What's the definition of boring things?
Speaker 2: Well, I like to read. I, and, and unfortunately I
Speaker 2: don't have as much of a fascinating kind of literary diet.
Speaker 2: I just end up reading more Economics and finance,
Speaker 2: which is what I do professionally and I think that's
Speaker 2: interesting because when I was younger it wasn't the case.
Speaker 2: I think people change over time as I got into
Speaker 2: a profession that was a little bit more introverted
Speaker 2: and I became more introverted prior to that, I was
Speaker 2: very much an outdoor person, I was in the uniform group,
Speaker 2: I was I played sports, so those were definitely more
Speaker 2: extroverted kind of activities. And it was only much more
Speaker 2: recently when I started becoming an academic quintessential solo activity
Speaker 2: where even
Speaker 2: the nature of sports I started to do
Speaker 2: became a lot more solitary. So I picked up hiking
Speaker 2: a lot more um I became very comfortable hiking by
Speaker 2: myself in the mountains, I think it speaks to the
Speaker 2: capacity of people to adapt and change. And I think
Speaker 2: it's important because we bucket ourselves into one particular category
Speaker 2: and I think it's important for us to
Speaker 2: actually look beyond that and and be comfortable
Speaker 2: pushing the boundaries of what you might
Speaker 2: have kind of pigeonholed yourself into. So it started that
Speaker 2: way as an adaptation, but then
Speaker 2: I started opening up a lot more to just enjoying,
Speaker 2: just appreciating what I was doing, being present. I think
Speaker 2: sometimes we forget that um and being present, it doesn't
Speaker 2: come as naturally these days because you find that sometimes
Speaker 2: you are being inefficient with your time when you're not
Speaker 2: actively doing something good, but what are we doing most
Speaker 2: of the time we are
Speaker 2: scrolling through an endless feed and that's
Speaker 1: not
Speaker 2: that's not entirely efficient, right? So being able to be
Speaker 2: present just to appreciate what's going on around you. There's
Speaker 2: value in that that we sometimes have forgotten. I
Speaker 1: totally agree. I mean with the mindfulness practice with being present.
Speaker 1: So just a side track. I spent a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks in the US just for vacation. I went on sabbatical.
Speaker 1: I decided to just take a break from social media
Speaker 1: and I was like you know what, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to post anything, I'm not going to report what I've
Speaker 1: been doing or like the fun stuff that I'm up to.
Speaker 1: I did take like 500,000 pictures but I didn't really
Speaker 1: post much and as a result my followers like are
Speaker 1: you okay? Like you haven't posted in a very long
Speaker 1: time like are you alive? What's going on?
Speaker 1: I'm like I don't need to validate that all the time.
Speaker 1: So I see where you're coming from. But on that
Speaker 1: note of traveling, I mean you spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time overseas as well, right? A big bulk of your
Speaker 1: time prior to being more based here in Singapore, you
Speaker 1: were overseas. So how did you sort of manage that?
Speaker 1: You know juggling between career personal relationships. Like can we
Speaker 1: really have it all? But I don't
Speaker 2: know about having it all. I think if you're obsessed
Speaker 2: about that then you may be putting quite a bit
Speaker 2: of stress on yourself. I think the idea is
Speaker 2: to set goals aspirations and then
Speaker 2: just go ahead and do it. I left after N. S.
Speaker 2: And so I probably spent about the same number of
Speaker 2: years outside of Singapore as I have in Singapore. But
Speaker 2: of course I'm a creature of
Speaker 2: what I was while I was here. So my formative
Speaker 2: years were all here. I think like a Singaporean and
Speaker 2: yet being away from home makes you
Speaker 2: embrace a little bit more
Speaker 2: who you are and and builds a certain kind of
Speaker 2: understanding of what it is to be, who you are.
Speaker 2: You need to find a level of comfort with yourself
Speaker 2: being by yourself. So Singaporeans records social creatures. So up
Speaker 2: till the time I was away
Speaker 2: I would never do social activities. Like watching a movie
Speaker 2: or
Speaker 2: going to a restaurant by myself. You always did it
Speaker 2: with friends right? Even if it was dragging someone like
Speaker 2: a colleague with you for lunch
Speaker 1: at
Speaker 2: the very least do that. You will never have lunch
Speaker 2: by yourself. And so I learned how to be a
Speaker 2: bit more introspective, bit more reflective about just being comfortable
Speaker 2: with
Speaker 2: who I was. And I think that was valuable because
Speaker 2: it allows me
Speaker 2: to understand full well what my limits are my what
Speaker 2: I'm comfortable doing what I'm not comfortable doing if I
Speaker 2: decided to go beyond my usual comfort level what I
Speaker 2: could achieve.
Speaker 1: And it's a lot of self discovery as well which
Speaker 1: in turn affects your relationships. I don't know in the
Speaker 1: future
Speaker 1: but you know when it comes down to career and relationships,
Speaker 1: do you think they directly
Speaker 1: affect each other because I personally feel when I was,
Speaker 1: you know, doing badly in my personal life, for example,
Speaker 1: like you know, just not with the right person in
Speaker 1: the right place fighting a lot, it kind of affected
Speaker 1: my productivity of my focus at work and stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: So in that sense it kind of did have a
Speaker 1: reaction in both ways.
Speaker 1: So what do you think about this relationship between your
Speaker 1: career and your personal life? Are they directly intertwined?
Speaker 2: Inevitably? We are
Speaker 2: humans are social creatures with emotions and in fact if
Speaker 2: something were not to be all right at home, whether
Speaker 2: it is with my immediate family, my wife, my daughter,
Speaker 2: or even if you extended family, if you know that
Speaker 2: you have a family member that is ill or going
Speaker 2: through a difficult time,
Speaker 2: it will always hang
Speaker 2: at the back of your mind and it will always
Speaker 2: have an effect. We are professionals in many things that
Speaker 2: we do, so you often have to just get on
Speaker 2: with the job, but I think to the extent that
Speaker 2: it is something you can control or manage, you try
Speaker 2: to make sure that those things are taken care of
Speaker 2: and
Speaker 2: I think the way to make sure that they are
Speaker 2: taking care of is
Speaker 2: to ensure that you schedule and devote time to taking
Speaker 2: care of those things. So
Speaker 2: as I mentioned weekends, often a fair chunk of that
Speaker 2: time is spent with family and and making sure that
Speaker 2: they get their dedicated time because during the week, especially weeknights,
Speaker 2: so much of what I do have to do with
Speaker 2: being in sync gang. So when I
Speaker 2: make sure that things are taken care of at home,
Speaker 2: then I feel much more comfortable discharging my other responsibilities
Speaker 2: and
Speaker 1: duties in the past maybe when you were younger as
Speaker 1: a student or anything. Have you ever found yourself in
Speaker 1: a place where you felt you had to decide between
Speaker 1: a relationship and work? Have you ever been in that
Speaker 1: dilemma
Speaker 2: before? As you know, I left
Speaker 2: um Singapore and I went to pursue my studies abroad
Speaker 2: and during one of those periods I was in a
Speaker 2: relationship prior to leaving and we had a long distance
Speaker 2: relationship for five years,
Speaker 1: five years, it was
Speaker 2: a long time for much of the time. We, we
Speaker 2: kind of made it work. She herself was
Speaker 2: going through her undergraduate studies, so she went abroad and
Speaker 2: so we met up, we were a bit too young
Speaker 2: to confess that we were supposed to meet up or not,
Speaker 2: so we may or may not have met
Speaker 1: up in
Speaker 2: between. So, but in any case we would commit to
Speaker 2: meeting up,
Speaker 2: say every three months or so, three or four months
Speaker 2: just because the physical connection, especially if you're in a
Speaker 2: relationship is important as it turns out that that relationship
Speaker 2: didn't endure, but people make these kind of decisions all
Speaker 2: the time prior to my first job out of grad school.
Speaker 2: I was in a small liberal arts college and
Speaker 2: there I was also in a relationship with someone there
Speaker 2: and then an opportunity came up to go to Washington D. C.
Speaker 2: To work. And it was a difficult decision. I spent
Speaker 2: a lot of time mulling over it because it was
Speaker 2: about giving up a relationship but at the same time
Speaker 2: taking on an exciting and interesting opportunity. So
Speaker 2: you know everyone makes their own calculations and then you
Speaker 2: make that decision. You try of course to make one
Speaker 2: thing work out the other in the end that one
Speaker 2: that relationship didn't work either. But again I think you
Speaker 2: don't make that decision flippantly right? You make that decision
Speaker 2: with consideration and then
Speaker 2: you commit to it and you try your level best
Speaker 2: to make sure that both sides of that decision are
Speaker 2: taken care of. But
Speaker 2: You know I was in my early 30s and
Speaker 2: Like many people in the early 30s you tend to
Speaker 2: prioritize career and and and professional goals a little bit
Speaker 2: more because you feel that that's your time to make
Speaker 2: a mark. And so
Speaker 2: yeah unfortunately that relationship ended up being the casualties.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's like really related to the phase
Speaker 1: of your life. Like right now in this point in
Speaker 1: time if you were to be asked to relocate overseas
Speaker 1: or you know go work there for six months to
Speaker 1: a year I don't know would that be something that
Speaker 1: you're comfortable with or how you're going to have that conversation.
Speaker 2: So I'm stuck here until
Speaker 2: until the next election.
Speaker 1: I suppose you're not going anywhere. I'm not going
Speaker 2: anywhere for now. But when when you say phase of
Speaker 2: life it's not a function of age is a function
Speaker 2: of where you are in your life right? So if
Speaker 2: you are in your early twenties but you have settled
Speaker 2: down you have a marriage, you have
Speaker 2: a kid and you have an apartment then
Speaker 2: that you are in that phase of life and it
Speaker 2: becomes a joint decision. You can't see him going to
Speaker 2: spend a few years chasing professional goals to the detriment
Speaker 2: of what you had already previously committed to. Then you
Speaker 2: know when you make a decision on where to go
Speaker 2: It becomes a joint decision. So before leaving D. C.
Speaker 2: or 700.
Speaker 2: And the offer was to go to abu Dhabi to
Speaker 2: spend some time there and at that time I was
Speaker 2: already married and so in a committed relationship with my wife.
Speaker 2: So I couldn't just say well look this thing doubles
Speaker 2: my salary. So let me just let me go and
Speaker 2: you stay here in D. C. And enjoy your time
Speaker 2: and you know
Speaker 2: it was a joint decision and when
Speaker 2: my wife was open to that possibility then it opened
Speaker 2: that possibility everyone I think when they are in a
Speaker 2: certain phase of their life make decisions that have to
Speaker 2: do with the people that depend on them and that
Speaker 2: matter to them. My father, he had a tremendous opportunity
Speaker 2: When he was in his 30
Speaker 2: when um the studio that he was working for in
Speaker 2: Singapore closed down. And at the time the Singapore music
Speaker 2: scene wasn't as developed. And so he received an offer
Speaker 2: to go to Taiwan to continue pursuing his career and
Speaker 2: it was a great opportunity. But at that time I
Speaker 2: was already born and he
Speaker 2: made that decision that
Speaker 2: he wanted me to be educated within the Singapore system
Speaker 2: to have english as my primary language. And
Speaker 2: and so he gave that up. So I think different
Speaker 2: people will have to weigh what matters to them. But ultimately,
Speaker 2: as I suggested it is it becomes a joint decision.
Speaker 1: That's a great example to be honest. So when I
Speaker 1: when I was in L. A. I had this conversation
Speaker 1: with my friends because, you know, the media scene in L. A.
Speaker 1: Is so popping right, like there's literally so much going
Speaker 1: on there.
Speaker 1: The support that is tremendous. Even though it's quite saturated,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody goes to L. A. Because you want
Speaker 1: to achieve a dream or you want to pursue something
Speaker 1: that maybe you didn't get a chance to back in
Speaker 1: your country. So my friends were asking me, they were like, hey,
Speaker 1: have you ever considered working in L. A. Or pursuing
Speaker 1: something overseas doesn't have to be L. A. Could be anywhere.
Speaker 1: And to the people that I met in L. A.
Speaker 1: I started to kind of think of that possibility and
Speaker 1: it was just like kind of nagging at me at
Speaker 1: the back of my head but likewise I'm also in
Speaker 1: a relationship, it's been a few years already and we
Speaker 1: also had this conversation because he said you know
Speaker 1: you you never got a chance to do that overseas right?
Speaker 1: And you know it could be the kind of thing
Speaker 1: where you don't want to resent not being able to
Speaker 1: have that opportunity to potentially pursue like something big in L. A.
Speaker 1: But to us I don't know whether it might be
Speaker 1: a deal breaker at this point in time. Um And
Speaker 1: I don't know if you are tuning in right now,
Speaker 1: any young couples tuning in whether this could be a
Speaker 1: deal breaker if your partner not married yet goes here,
Speaker 1: I want to spend six months to a year working overseas,
Speaker 1: but I know that you have a job in Singapore.
Speaker 1: So what kind of advice would you then give us
Speaker 1: in this position more and more by the way, Millennials
Speaker 1: and gen Z is um I don't know whether it's
Speaker 1: related to the pandemic as well
Speaker 1: want to pursue something overseas. In fact we have a
Speaker 1: crew member who is pursuing something in Korea like right
Speaker 1: now what kind of advice do you have for us?
Speaker 2: Well, so as I mentioned earlier on, one of the
Speaker 2: key things is to make sure that you and this
Speaker 2: is purely on a practical basis to make sure that
Speaker 2: you physically get together every now and then. So I
Speaker 2: think that's crucial, I think to manage one's expectations if
Speaker 2: you're going to say okay, I want to spend some
Speaker 2: time overseas. What is that? Is that
Speaker 2: six months, is that a year?
Speaker 2: Um is that several years? And what is the comfort
Speaker 2: level for each of you to spend that amount of time?
Speaker 2: Your partner may say, okay, this is a tremendous opportunity.
Speaker 2: I want to support you in this. You should go ahead,
Speaker 2: but
Speaker 2: I don't think we can be apart for three years
Speaker 2: then it becomes well, would you be willing to do
Speaker 2: it for a shorter period of time? So that's why
Speaker 2: it's a joint decision, you should definitely talk things through,
Speaker 2: but more generally, I mean I hope one day we
Speaker 2: will develop ourselves and Singapore. That is as
Speaker 2: a place where we no longer have to feel the
Speaker 2: need
Speaker 2: two
Speaker 2: go overseas necessarily just to get good opportunities. So that
Speaker 2: was the case certainly when I was younger, if you
Speaker 2: wanted to be a professional economist in say the front
Speaker 2: office of an investment bank, that was very challenging at
Speaker 2: the time when I first graduated. And so
Speaker 2: it was natural for me to pursue those opportunities abroad.
Speaker 2: But we have since developed as a financial center and
Speaker 2: the wealth management center and that has meant that it's
Speaker 2: become at least for my profession a lot easier to
Speaker 2: make that decision that you know, maybe the very best
Speaker 2: opportunities may still be in new york or London, but
Speaker 2: nevertheless we can hold our own. So the same for
Speaker 2: the media landscape for you guys, if
Speaker 2: we can make ourselves much more attractive,
Speaker 2: media hub, creative arts hub, that itself will ensure that
Speaker 2: we remain enticing enough to have here as a base.
Speaker 2: You might still want to spend some time abroad just
Speaker 2: to gain experience gained exposure,
Speaker 2: but you don't feel that you have let something pass
Speaker 2: you by the way that my father had just because
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 2: are based in Singapore all
Speaker 1: fair points and I think, you know, it's the kind
Speaker 1: of thing where you have to revisit every once in
Speaker 1: a while in a different phase of your life. It
Speaker 1: changes also like what you want to do, sometimes I
Speaker 1: don't even know what I want to do like in
Speaker 1: my current phase of life, I still question that every
Speaker 1: once in a while. But on that note obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: you touched on the long distance relationships, you touched on
Speaker 1: a lot of sacrifice and stuff like with the example
Speaker 1: of your debt to
Speaker 1: what would you say was your biggest sacrifice, having to
Speaker 1: travel around for work juggling all this, would you be
Speaker 1: able to identify the biggest sacrifice you've had to make
Speaker 2: keeping in mind that there's a little bit of recency
Speaker 2: bias in all this, it's not so much a sacrifice
Speaker 2: for myself, but it's a sacrifice that of course my
Speaker 2: family has had to make, which is that after having
Speaker 2: been elected it became
Speaker 2: such that a lot of my evenings could no longer
Speaker 2: be spent with my family. So and that could be
Speaker 2: in just very
Speaker 2: what may seem like fairly minor things. So
Speaker 2: when my daughter was first born, we were all still
Speaker 2: in lockdown and so it was very easy to spend
Speaker 2: extended period of time. We went for walks every day.
Speaker 2: In fact everyone was going for walks every day if
Speaker 2: you recall because that's
Speaker 1: the only way
Speaker 2: you could get out of the house.
Speaker 1: All the bicycles sold out everywhere.
Speaker 2: Exactly. So so we we spend an extended period of
Speaker 2: time and
Speaker 2: during that phase
Speaker 2: I would read to her every night and of course
Speaker 2: she was too young to struggle on my arms. So
Speaker 2: she had no choice but to what
Speaker 1: were you not,
Speaker 2: not, not exactly age appropriate stuff. So I was reading,
Speaker 2: you know, stuff that was meant for four or five
Speaker 2: year olds, but I didn't care. It was a way
Speaker 2: for me. It was like,
Speaker 2: well every new word is a new word after all.
Speaker 2: So might as well expose her to that anyhow. Then
Speaker 2: after the election, it turns out that I was no
Speaker 2: longer able to do that. And interestingly recently she has
Speaker 2: started to bring books to me and say daddy can you? Well,
Speaker 2: she doesn't say daddy can because she's not
Speaker 2: quite verbal yet, but she gets
Speaker 1: the book and she gives it to me.
Speaker 2: And and so more recently she started to rekindle that
Speaker 2: before there was a period of time before she turned
Speaker 2: to um when she just was really resistant, she would
Speaker 2: struggle on my arms and I felt that I lost
Speaker 2: something there. So it's it's the thing that the kind
Speaker 2: of little sacrifices that
Speaker 2: add up and make you realize that well, I need
Speaker 2: to make sure that
Speaker 2: I see the big picture all the time and I
Speaker 2: keep
Speaker 2: the priorities where they really should be, as we discussed earlier,
Speaker 2: you know, if you make sure that things
Speaker 2: are
Speaker 2: good and working out at home, then everything else will
Speaker 2: fall into place and if things are not in equilibrium
Speaker 2: at home, then you know that no matter how much
Speaker 2: you are killing it in the office, something will still
Speaker 2: be missing and it's important to recognize that.
Speaker 1: So, are you trying to fit in more reading schedules
Speaker 1: in between now that you know that you're busier and
Speaker 1: you know, you've got things to do during that particular time.
Speaker 1: How are you going to fit that in more then?
Speaker 1: So yeah,
Speaker 2: we try, I tried my level best to spend time
Speaker 2: reading to her, but again, it's not just reading. Reading
Speaker 2: is just one example, it is being able to spend
Speaker 2: quality time with them, you know,
Speaker 2: at every age before you have a kid, you always
Speaker 2: hear this, they grow up so fast and once
Speaker 2: that time goes by
Speaker 2: it's gone.
Speaker 1: It's
Speaker 2: never real until it is and when it is, you
Speaker 2: might be so busy that you don't recognize it. And
Speaker 2: I think it's important to pause and take a deep
Speaker 2: breath and to recognize that these things are real and
Speaker 2: that you really shouldn't
Speaker 2: give up what may seem trivial, just a couple of
Speaker 2: minutes here and there, just an hour. So it they
Speaker 2: are valuable and once they're gone, you can never recover them.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting thing because due to the nature of
Speaker 1: my job, I also work very odd hours and sometimes
Speaker 1: I don't have weekends to myself or you know, with
Speaker 1: my family and stuff and
Speaker 1: also dinner, I usually don't have it with my family
Speaker 1: because I finished work at like and work at maybe
Speaker 1: nine every day
Speaker 1: And during my sabbatical of two months
Speaker 1: I hung out more with my parents and I realized
Speaker 1: how much they aged, it's not just about kids growing
Speaker 1: up was also our parents and our folks and grandparents
Speaker 1: or whoever aging and it became so obvious to me
Speaker 1: when I managed to spend a little bit more time
Speaker 1: with them. So
Speaker 1: yeah, a little bit of a side track, but I
Speaker 1: think that is definitely something, I don't know, that's too, yeah,
Speaker 2: absolutely. So my mother lives with us and
Speaker 2: um, she's a great cook, but she cooks mostly Eastern cuisine,
Speaker 2: but she really loves pasta for instance and I think
Speaker 2: it's quite straightforward, but she finds it she has this
Speaker 2: mental block, right? She just cannot cook anything that isn't
Speaker 2: from the east. So
Speaker 2: she has cravings and
Speaker 2: the thing is that she tries to be understanding and not.
Speaker 2: So I've tried to
Speaker 2: impress on her that,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes you should just ask and
Speaker 2: when she does, it triggers something in me that says, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I really haven't cooked forever. And so in
Speaker 2: fact last night, so I ended up cooking last night
Speaker 2: and that was in part because she does this kind of,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it's passive aggressive, but this is, you
Speaker 1: can do it
Speaker 2: indirectly. Oh, I haven't had pasta a
Speaker 1: lot like him. You
Speaker 2: have to recognize that
Speaker 1: as a
Speaker 2: scream for help to for me to actually provide that.
Speaker 2: And so,
Speaker 2: so I've learned that she's too old to kind of
Speaker 2: expect her to be a lot more direct. So that's
Speaker 2: just her style. And so when you recognize that in
Speaker 2: your parents, their little idiosyncrasies for how they are expressing
Speaker 2: what they what they really would like, then you try
Speaker 2: to satisfy that. So yeah, I end up cooking last
Speaker 2: night and
Speaker 2: she enjoyed it and you make a big batch and
Speaker 2: she can have leftovers
Speaker 1: as well. So I mean on that note, obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: you've been back in Singapore for a bit now. Um
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you're enjoying, you know, the local food
Speaker 1: and everything. Was it a tough decision for you to
Speaker 1: move back to Singapore and decide this is going to
Speaker 1: be like
Speaker 1: my base?
Speaker 2: Well, if it was just a food. No.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a no brainer.
Speaker 2: So like most Singaporeans who are based abroad, you come
Speaker 2: back every
Speaker 2: number of years, right? In fact I came back at
Speaker 2: least once a year during which I would stuff my
Speaker 2: face for that 1.5 weeks put on a few kilos,
Speaker 2: but it was by and large. You you you do
Speaker 2: have to make choices about
Speaker 2: what
Speaker 2: the opportunities are and so on and where you
Speaker 2: as we were discussing what phase you are in your
Speaker 2: life and what what you'd like to do. A big
Speaker 2: part of coming back was family. So my mother was
Speaker 2: getting older and so it was something where I felt
Speaker 2: an extended period of time spent with her was valuable.
Speaker 2: Of course it's a bit trickier in in my case
Speaker 2: because my wife her mother is based in the US.
Speaker 2: So being closer to my mother inevitably means she's further
Speaker 2: from hers. We had spent quite a bit of time
Speaker 2: in the U. S. Already. So
Speaker 2: it was a little bit of a compromise for her
Speaker 2: to come over on this part.
Speaker 2: Again sacrifices on both sides. But then inevitably you have
Speaker 2: to recognize that in this case I have been the
Speaker 2: big beneficiary of my wife's generosity. But at other times
Speaker 2: you have to recognize that she is far from her family.
Speaker 2: So
Speaker 2: when she is when she really needs to visit her family,
Speaker 2: you have to make it happen. It happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean what obviously what we are collecting here
Speaker 1: all the information that we've been talking about today. The sacrifice.
Speaker 1: You know the compromise communication is so key. I mean
Speaker 1: I know we always talk about this communicating it but
Speaker 1: I think some people don't communicate enough and that's how
Speaker 1: we get into tiffs and fights and it becomes a
Speaker 1: deal breaker when it doesn't actually
Speaker 1: have to be right.
Speaker 2: I learned very early on. And again this is not
Speaker 2: unique to me. It's this
Speaker 2: wise words from from generations before that you never let
Speaker 2: well this was in the bible. Don't let the sun
Speaker 2: go down on your wrath. It's ah you you don't
Speaker 2: have an argument that you think
Speaker 2: you will sleep on it and everything will be fine
Speaker 2: in the morning. Um you resolve it and you don't
Speaker 2: allow that to fester. So I think
Speaker 2: since my relationship began with I wasn't always like this
Speaker 2: by the way when I was a teenager. Like most
Speaker 2: teenagers you had these massive slammed down the phone kind
Speaker 2: of fights when you could still slam down phones. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's important not to
Speaker 2: allow disagreements and sometimes it's not comfortable, right? You would
Speaker 2: rather not talk it through. But I think that is
Speaker 2: crucial to just swallow your pride and not think about
Speaker 2: the last time I was the one that that broke
Speaker 2: the silence. No, no, you don't do that. You just
Speaker 2: say no, we don't want to have this silence between us.
Speaker 2: We let's talk it out and it may not be
Speaker 2: easy breaking this,
Speaker 2: this cold war if you will. But I think when
Speaker 2: you
Speaker 2: do you approach it with generosity. What you'll find is
Speaker 2: that you don't have these kind of long extended arguments
Speaker 2: and that overall makes for a much healthier relationship. So
Speaker 2: I am happy to say that in general with my wife,
Speaker 2: it's not that we don't have disagreements
Speaker 2: is that we do not allow these disagreements too
Speaker 2: to festival over time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I totally agree because obviously we've matured over
Speaker 1: the years and you know, we grow into a different
Speaker 1: phase as well and we become a little bit more
Speaker 1: developed in terms of how we think and like how
Speaker 1: we deal with our emotions and all that. I used
Speaker 1: to be so hotheaded in relationships sometimes when I look back,
Speaker 1: I'm like who is that? Like it's such an ugly
Speaker 1: person, you know in terms of behavior
Speaker 1: but we all grow out of it somehow, right? You
Speaker 1: know in a lot of ways. So to wrap things up,
Speaker 1: do you have any other final advice for? I know
Speaker 1: this is always like a daunting question
Speaker 1: because you've experienced quite a lot in terms of, you know,
Speaker 1: the long distance relationships, you've had to you know, go
Speaker 1: through lots of compromise as well to get to where
Speaker 1: you are today. Anything else that you would like to
Speaker 1: share with our audience? I think we've learned so much
Speaker 1: today from your stories as well.
Speaker 2: Perhaps I would say
Speaker 2: it's and again, this is a bit cliche. It is
Speaker 2: about seizing the moment when opportunities present themselves. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: feel that
Speaker 2: we are not up to it. We we face a
Speaker 2: sense of
Speaker 2: what's sometimes referred to as imposter syndrome. Like we aren't
Speaker 2: prepared to take those things on if an opportunity presents
Speaker 2: itself almost always, it isn't just purely by chance, you
Speaker 2: are often in a position where you are
Speaker 2: good enough to do it.
Speaker 2: Um you may not be as confident that you will
Speaker 2: be able to do it, but the trick is to
Speaker 2: go ahead and embrace that, give it your very best shot, right?
Speaker 2: And if
Speaker 2: if it's not good enough then the universe will work
Speaker 2: itself out and you will no longer be doing that
Speaker 2: for very long. But it to the extent that you
Speaker 2: decide not to pass it up to seize the opportunities
Speaker 2: that come along, of course, subject to all the things
Speaker 2: that we discuss, which is, you know, you have to
Speaker 2: make these decisions jointly if there's a significant other or
Speaker 2: others in your life. And once you have decided to
Speaker 2: embrace it, then just go ahead and do it and
Speaker 2: do it
Speaker 2: to the very best of your ability so that you
Speaker 2: never
Speaker 2: look back there after and say, well, I wish I
Speaker 2: had done it better. I wish I had put in
Speaker 2: a little bit more effort
Speaker 2: you put in your very best. And if it wasn't
Speaker 2: good enough, then used to say, well, I was not
Speaker 2: suited for that, but I have no regrets whatsoever doing
Speaker 2: that because I chose to seize those opportunities to seize
Speaker 2: the day. So that that's again dead Poets Society. I
Speaker 2: suppose I am an educator. So
Speaker 2: copy DM There you go.
Speaker 1: You know, I I would say the one thing that
Speaker 1: I picked up that I will keep with me is
Speaker 1: are you saying that we need to manage each other's
Speaker 1: expectations when it comes to like, your significant other or
Speaker 1: your partner, right? Because if I'm going to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be here for a year, but it becomes
Speaker 1: like 34 or five years, then that's going to be
Speaker 1: an issue. So, I think
Speaker 1: that's my main takeaway from it, as well as managing
Speaker 1: expectation
Speaker 2: and make sure that you're not always managing there's and
Speaker 2: expecting them not to manage yours, right? So you should
Speaker 2: also be entirely cognizant of what you are asking from
Speaker 2: the other person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. Thank you so much for sharing all your
Speaker 1: thoughts with us. You know, that was really cool to
Speaker 1: also see you in a different lights and a different
Speaker 1: way sitting down chatting with us. It was pretty surreal
Speaker 1: I think for the entire team as well
Speaker 1: to be here chatting with you. Well, I think you
Speaker 1: know
Speaker 2: who I am. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
Speaker 1: Men explain now. If you liked it, please hit the
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Speaker 1: like this. See you next episode.
Speaker 2: Catch you guys later.
Speaker 1: Bye.