1 00:00:03,119 --> 00:00:05,309 Speaker 1: You're listening to a CNA podcast. 2 00:00:07,969 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: It did take everyone by surprise. It took me by 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,369 Speaker 1: surprise too, because all of a sudden he just came 4 00:00:13,369 --> 00:00:17,009 Speaker 1: out on TV late Tuesday night saying that he had 5 00:00:17,010 --> 00:00:18,549 Speaker 1: no choice but to 6 00:00:18,549 --> 00:00:22,809 Speaker 2: talk about K drama, a martial law decree that lasted 7 00:00:22,809 --> 00:00:27,719 Speaker 2: just 6 hours, an impeached president, an impeached acting president 8 00:00:27,719 --> 00:00:31,069 Speaker 2: and the first ever arrest of a sitting president who 9 00:00:31,069 --> 00:00:33,598 Speaker 2: has since been indicted for insurrection. 10 00:00:33,990 --> 00:00:36,889 Speaker 2: Well, for the past two months, South Korean politics has 11 00:00:36,889 --> 00:00:40,450 Speaker 2: been eventful, to say the least. Our Korea correspondent has 12 00:00:40,450 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: followed the string of developments every step of the way. 13 00:00:44,290 --> 00:00:47,049 Speaker 2: For more, CNA's Lin Hyun Sook joins us from the 14 00:00:47,049 --> 00:00:52,139 Speaker 2: National Assembly. The latest developments, CNA's senior correspondent Lin Yun-suk 15 00:00:52,139 --> 00:00:53,700 Speaker 2: joins us live from Seoul. 16 00:00:54,020 --> 00:00:57,990 Speaker 2: Senior Korea correspondent Lim Hyun Sook has more. Now the 17 00:00:57,990 --> 00:01:00,900 Speaker 2: country waits to find out what happens to President Yun 18 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:05,339 Speaker 2: Sung Yil as he faces two simultaneous trials, an impeachment 19 00:01:05,339 --> 00:01:08,660 Speaker 2: one and a criminal case. He has vowed to fight 20 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:12,180 Speaker 2: to the end. What does that fight look like? Correspondent 21 00:01:12,180 --> 00:01:13,809 Speaker 2: Limyun Sook joins me today. 22 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:15,830 Speaker 2: Hi, Yun Sook. 23 00:01:16,180 --> 00:01:17,569 Speaker 1: Hello, hi Teresa. 24 00:01:18,139 --> 00:01:21,050 Speaker 2: OK, I've lost count of the number of live crosses 25 00:01:21,050 --> 00:01:23,779 Speaker 2: and reports that you have done since President Yun declared 26 00:01:23,779 --> 00:01:27,539 Speaker 2: martial law on the night of December 3rd. You've been 27 00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:31,619 Speaker 2: covering South Korean politics for decades now. How would you 28 00:01:31,620 --> 00:01:33,330 Speaker 2: describe these past two months? 29 00:01:33,819 --> 00:01:35,860 Speaker 1: Well, you know, yes, I have, and you know, when 30 00:01:35,860 --> 00:01:38,260 Speaker 1: I meet people these days and they say, wow, Yon Song, 31 00:01:38,300 --> 00:01:39,809 Speaker 1: you must have been really busy. 32 00:01:40,190 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: I tell them that the word busy is really not sufficient. 33 00:01:43,830 --> 00:01:47,069 Speaker 1: It's not really the right word to describe how busy 34 00:01:47,069 --> 00:01:49,709 Speaker 1: and crazy it really has been since that martial law 35 00:01:49,709 --> 00:01:53,510 Speaker 1: was declared on December 3rd. Before joining CNA, I was 36 00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:56,860 Speaker 1: saying in the 1990s I was working for another foreign media, 37 00:01:57,019 --> 00:02:00,190 Speaker 1: and I remember covering the trials of two former presidents 38 00:02:00,190 --> 00:02:01,709 Speaker 1: related to a military crew then. 39 00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:05,050 Speaker 1: And the image of the two presidents, especially Cheng Johan, 40 00:02:05,089 --> 00:02:08,728 Speaker 1: the mastermind behind the coup then, really stays, and I 41 00:02:08,729 --> 00:02:10,970 Speaker 1: think it will forever stay in my mind. It was 42 00:02:10,970 --> 00:02:14,139 Speaker 1: a very strong image. And so I covered that, but 43 00:02:14,139 --> 00:02:17,330 Speaker 1: then I also covered former President Park Geun-hye, the first 44 00:02:17,330 --> 00:02:20,350 Speaker 1: female president being impeached and being thrown out of the office, 45 00:02:20,369 --> 00:02:22,809 Speaker 1: and that time he was really busy too, but 46 00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:25,809 Speaker 1: You know, what's been happening here in South Korea since 47 00:02:25,809 --> 00:02:29,690 Speaker 1: December really goes beyond everything I've seen so far. All 48 00:02:29,690 --> 00:02:34,050 Speaker 1: these unprecedented events just happening one after another from the 49 00:02:34,050 --> 00:02:36,369 Speaker 1: time that he announced that martial law on December 3rd 50 00:02:36,369 --> 00:02:40,330 Speaker 1: and then being arrested from his presidential office, his residence 51 00:02:40,330 --> 00:02:43,729 Speaker 1: on January 15th. I've really been seeing a lot of 52 00:02:43,729 --> 00:02:46,210 Speaker 1: events I never thought I would see here in South Korea, 53 00:02:46,288 --> 00:02:48,610 Speaker 1: you know, things that I would really think might be 54 00:02:48,610 --> 00:02:51,589 Speaker 1: good for a movie, a drama, but not, not for 55 00:02:51,589 --> 00:02:52,279 Speaker 1: real life. 56 00:02:53,038 --> 00:02:55,759 Speaker 2: Our listeners may not really have a sense of what 57 00:02:55,758 --> 00:02:58,758 Speaker 2: you go through on the ground, you know, you've reported 58 00:02:58,758 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 2: from outside the National Assembly, outside the presidential residence, at 59 00:03:03,119 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: the site of protest rallies. You're juggling so much. There's 60 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: breaking news lines, there's camera logistics, not to mention the 61 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: cold temperature, which is also a challenge. What has been 62 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,070 Speaker 2: the biggest challenge for you covering Yununyo's story? 63 00:03:19,008 --> 00:03:21,089 Speaker 1: Well, I think it's really just being focused, you know, 64 00:03:21,199 --> 00:03:24,330 Speaker 1: and I think the biggest challenge was really being focused 65 00:03:24,330 --> 00:03:27,399 Speaker 1: and really just being on alert at all times because 66 00:03:27,399 --> 00:03:30,250 Speaker 1: things were just happening so fast and I had no 67 00:03:30,250 --> 00:03:32,199 Speaker 1: idea what was going to happen next and you know, 68 00:03:32,330 --> 00:03:34,289 Speaker 1: I have been around for a while and so I 69 00:03:34,288 --> 00:03:37,369 Speaker 1: usually know what to expect sometimes and and know what 70 00:03:37,369 --> 00:03:40,070 Speaker 1: the next step, what the story might be, but for 71 00:03:40,070 --> 00:03:41,039 Speaker 1: this one, it was really 72 00:03:41,235 --> 00:03:45,074 Speaker 1: Just unprecedented events one after another from day one, you know, 73 00:03:45,125 --> 00:03:47,475 Speaker 1: and I was at home watching this and I saw 74 00:03:47,475 --> 00:03:50,235 Speaker 1: this news flash. President Yun declares martial law, and I 75 00:03:50,235 --> 00:03:53,195 Speaker 1: wasn't alarmed at first or shocked because I was watching 76 00:03:53,195 --> 00:03:55,035 Speaker 1: a talk show or something and I thought one of 77 00:03:55,035 --> 00:03:57,634 Speaker 1: the panelists had said something and they had this flash 78 00:03:57,634 --> 00:04:00,365 Speaker 1: out as to what he said. But then I realized 79 00:04:00,365 --> 00:04:03,104 Speaker 1: that this was a news flash and that it was real. 80 00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:06,169 Speaker 1: And since then it's really been like that. I think 81 00:04:06,169 --> 00:04:08,649 Speaker 1: people who know me know how after work I like 82 00:04:08,649 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: to take a break, go out, have a drink to, de-stress, 83 00:04:12,050 --> 00:04:15,330 Speaker 1: but for this time since December 3rd, I haven't really 84 00:04:15,330 --> 00:04:17,609 Speaker 1: been able to do that because I don't know what 85 00:04:17,609 --> 00:04:20,519 Speaker 1: is going to break out, what is going to happen next. 86 00:04:20,779 --> 00:04:22,769 Speaker 1: And so my team and I, we've been watching the 87 00:04:22,769 --> 00:04:25,928 Speaker 1: news nonstop every minute really, and there have been times 88 00:04:25,928 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: when in the middle of the night when I would 89 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:28,808 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom. 90 00:04:28,962 --> 00:04:30,872 Speaker 1: Or get a drink of water or something, and I 91 00:04:30,872 --> 00:04:33,832 Speaker 1: find myself checking the news just to make sure that 92 00:04:33,832 --> 00:04:36,032 Speaker 1: something hadn't broken out or something was happening while I 93 00:04:36,032 --> 00:04:38,872 Speaker 1: was asleep. And also, yes, I mean this was happening 94 00:04:38,872 --> 00:04:40,872 Speaker 1: when it was the winter and it still is. It's 95 00:04:40,872 --> 00:04:44,832 Speaker 1: like -8 degrees here in Seoul today and many times, 96 00:04:44,911 --> 00:04:47,070 Speaker 1: you know, I mean my mouth would be so frozen. 97 00:04:47,111 --> 00:04:50,462 Speaker 1: I wasn't really able to say the words properly and, 98 00:04:50,541 --> 00:04:52,592 Speaker 1: and yes, you do have the hot packs here in 99 00:04:52,592 --> 00:04:54,432 Speaker 1: Korean and everything, but it really is. 100 00:04:54,694 --> 00:04:57,493 Speaker 1: cold and you know, many times when you're doing the 101 00:04:57,493 --> 00:05:00,164 Speaker 1: life is, you're out there a minimum of one hour 102 00:05:00,164 --> 00:05:02,213 Speaker 1: or so because, you know, you need to find the 103 00:05:02,213 --> 00:05:05,973 Speaker 1: right location, get ready, set yourself up, and you know 104 00:05:05,973 --> 00:05:09,212 Speaker 1: that area where the parliament is located is in Yido 105 00:05:09,213 --> 00:05:12,093 Speaker 1: and it's surrounded by this river, the Han River, and 106 00:05:12,093 --> 00:05:15,044 Speaker 1: so it gets really windy, especially in the mornings and 107 00:05:15,053 --> 00:05:17,604 Speaker 1: and evenings when we do the live fest. And so, 108 00:05:17,933 --> 00:05:19,803 Speaker 1: and once you're there in that location, 109 00:05:20,126 --> 00:05:22,036 Speaker 1: You don't want to move, you can't go to the bathroom, 110 00:05:22,156 --> 00:05:25,195 Speaker 1: go for a hot drink or anything because it's nearly 111 00:05:25,196 --> 00:05:27,755 Speaker 1: impossible to get back to that location because there's just 112 00:05:27,755 --> 00:05:30,835 Speaker 1: so many people and so the conditions were bad and 113 00:05:30,835 --> 00:05:33,555 Speaker 1: all that too. But overall, it really, I think it's 114 00:05:33,555 --> 00:05:37,436 Speaker 1: the waiting waiting outside the presidential residence where it's loud, 115 00:05:37,596 --> 00:05:42,115 Speaker 1: music blurry, people chanting different slogans or outside the parliament 116 00:05:42,115 --> 00:05:45,304 Speaker 1: when lawmakers were deciding on the impeachment vote. 117 00:05:45,708 --> 00:05:47,738 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes there are times and lots of times 118 00:05:47,738 --> 00:05:49,727 Speaker 1: when you get a lot of the protesters coming up 119 00:05:49,726 --> 00:05:52,627 Speaker 1: to you and they'll shout insults, not knowing which media 120 00:05:52,627 --> 00:05:54,537 Speaker 1: you're from, and they say, which media are you from? 121 00:05:54,597 --> 00:05:56,898 Speaker 1: And they'll say do your job properly or something, and 122 00:05:56,898 --> 00:05:58,937 Speaker 1: I would just pretend I don't know a word of 123 00:05:58,937 --> 00:06:02,018 Speaker 1: Korean that I wasn't Korean and I'll say Singapore TV, 124 00:06:02,097 --> 00:06:04,787 Speaker 1: Singapore TV and they would say like, oh, she's Singaporean, 125 00:06:04,898 --> 00:06:07,738 Speaker 1: she's from Singapore, they will walk away and so lots 126 00:06:07,738 --> 00:06:11,126 Speaker 1: of events that happened, but overall it's very stressful. 127 00:06:11,709 --> 00:06:15,299 Speaker 2: You make it all look so easy, Hyun Sook. Impeached 128 00:06:15,299 --> 00:06:19,459 Speaker 2: President Yun, he's been indicted on charges of leading an insurrection, 129 00:06:19,500 --> 00:06:23,570 Speaker 2: which means he is facing two trials, his impeachment trial 130 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:25,928 Speaker 2: and a criminal one as well. Can you tell us 131 00:06:25,928 --> 00:06:29,450 Speaker 2: how they're different and how he has been preparing for them? 132 00:06:30,309 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: Well, he has the impeachment trials at the Constitutional Court, 133 00:06:33,450 --> 00:06:36,428 Speaker 1: and this is where the court will have to decide 134 00:06:36,428 --> 00:06:39,679 Speaker 1: whether his action by declaring that martial law on December 135 00:06:39,678 --> 00:06:43,750 Speaker 1: 3rd was constitutional or not, that whether as a president 136 00:06:43,750 --> 00:06:46,269 Speaker 1: he had a right to do that and if the 137 00:06:46,269 --> 00:06:51,709 Speaker 1: circumstances seen by the court then make that declaration constitutional 138 00:06:51,709 --> 00:06:55,510 Speaker 1: or unconstitutional. Now in the criminal court it's whether he 139 00:06:55,510 --> 00:06:57,070 Speaker 1: really wanted to. 140 00:06:57,196 --> 00:07:00,295 Speaker 1: For the government it's a probe into the insurrection charges 141 00:07:00,295 --> 00:07:03,895 Speaker 1: whether he ordered the people, including the former Defense Minister 142 00:07:03,895 --> 00:07:07,976 Speaker 1: Kim Yong-hyun, to carry out that insurrection by declaring an 143 00:07:07,976 --> 00:07:12,126 Speaker 1: unconstitutional or illegal state of emergency when there were no 144 00:07:12,126 --> 00:07:15,615 Speaker 1: signs of war, armed conflict, or anything similar to that 145 00:07:15,696 --> 00:07:18,936 Speaker 1: that called for this declaration of martial law. Now the 146 00:07:18,936 --> 00:07:21,765 Speaker 1: criminal court hearings are scheduled to start later this month 147 00:07:21,765 --> 00:07:23,976 Speaker 1: and so President Yun is going to be very busy 148 00:07:23,976 --> 00:07:24,205 Speaker 1: having 149 00:07:24,252 --> 00:07:27,441 Speaker 1: To attend that and the impeachment trials which are being 150 00:07:27,441 --> 00:07:30,951 Speaker 1: held every Tuesday and Thursdays really for the whole day, 151 00:07:31,082 --> 00:07:34,071 Speaker 1: and he has with them a team of lawyers, about 152 00:07:34,071 --> 00:07:36,802 Speaker 1: 17 of them working with them, and I hear that 153 00:07:36,802 --> 00:07:39,842 Speaker 1: they even met over the long lunar New Year holidays 154 00:07:39,842 --> 00:07:43,201 Speaker 1: to discuss the different trials. So he'll be very busy. 155 00:07:43,282 --> 00:07:45,321 Speaker 1: He'll probably be in court most of the time during 156 00:07:45,321 --> 00:07:48,481 Speaker 1: the week, but a very crucial really trials, both two 157 00:07:48,481 --> 00:07:51,161 Speaker 1: trials that will really determine his future. 158 00:07:51,950 --> 00:07:54,260 Speaker 2: Can we focus on the impeachment trial for a second, 159 00:07:54,279 --> 00:07:58,750 Speaker 2: Hyun Sook? The Constitutional Court, it has begun deliberations on 160 00:07:58,750 --> 00:08:02,510 Speaker 2: whether to formally dismiss President Yun or not. How is 161 00:08:02,510 --> 00:08:04,350 Speaker 2: that going to play out? Do you think it's going 162 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:07,459 Speaker 2: to be accelerated because the president is detained right now? 163 00:08:07,989 --> 00:08:10,230 Speaker 1: Well, whether he's detained or not, I think they are 164 00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:12,869 Speaker 1: going at a fast pace. The decision that they will 165 00:08:12,869 --> 00:08:14,950 Speaker 1: have to reach is whether to remove him from the 166 00:08:14,950 --> 00:08:18,369 Speaker 1: presidential office or not. Now, about one week after he 167 00:08:18,369 --> 00:08:21,670 Speaker 1: declared their martial law, President Yan gave a speech to 168 00:08:21,670 --> 00:08:24,750 Speaker 1: the nation, citing his reasons for why he had to 169 00:08:24,750 --> 00:08:27,790 Speaker 1: declare their martial law. That's a long sort of like 170 00:08:27,790 --> 00:08:29,630 Speaker 1: 28 minute speech or so, but let me. 171 00:08:29,714 --> 00:08:32,054 Speaker 1: Share with you what he said nearly at the end, 172 00:08:32,224 --> 00:08:37,025 Speaker 1: wrapping up his reasons for declaring that martial law. I 173 00:08:37,025 --> 00:08:41,025 Speaker 1: declared emergency martial law under the president's legal authority to 174 00:08:41,025 --> 00:08:44,544 Speaker 1: protect the country and normalize state affairs in a catastrophic 175 00:08:44,544 --> 00:08:48,984 Speaker 1: emergency that paralyzed state affairs. The declaration of martial law 176 00:08:48,984 --> 00:08:52,184 Speaker 1: is a highly political decision by the president and can 177 00:08:52,184 --> 00:08:54,744 Speaker 1: only be overturned by a request to do so from 178 00:08:54,744 --> 00:08:56,025 Speaker 1: the National Assembly. 179 00:08:56,580 --> 00:08:59,090 Speaker 1: And he did do that, you know, he did overturn 180 00:08:59,090 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: the martial law right after the National Assembly voted against it, 181 00:09:02,609 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: but the issue here is whether the circumstances surrounding South Korea, 182 00:09:06,969 --> 00:09:10,650 Speaker 1: the Korean government, a national emergency state at a national 183 00:09:10,650 --> 00:09:13,969 Speaker 1: emergency state or not. Now President Yu says that declaring 184 00:09:13,969 --> 00:09:18,010 Speaker 1: martial law was out of desperation, frustration to let the 185 00:09:18,010 --> 00:09:18,450 Speaker 1: South Korean. 186 00:09:18,830 --> 00:09:21,630 Speaker 1: know what was going on here in Korea as the 187 00:09:21,630 --> 00:09:26,229 Speaker 1: opposition controlled National Assembly has slightly over like 20 impeachment 188 00:09:26,229 --> 00:09:30,070 Speaker 1: proceedings against his officials, was going to cut his budget 189 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:34,140 Speaker 1: for 2025, leaving him unable to run the country. And 190 00:09:34,140 --> 00:09:37,630 Speaker 1: he says that the opposition party was engaging in this 191 00:09:37,630 --> 00:09:40,429 Speaker 1: what he calls a legislative dictatorship. 192 00:09:40,969 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: Now also another issue is about sending the troops into 193 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,069 Speaker 1: the National Assembly. He's alleged to have tried to limit 194 00:09:47,070 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: the activities of the National Assembly by sending the troops 195 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,729 Speaker 1: in and trying to detain some of the lawmakers. And 196 00:09:53,729 --> 00:09:55,890 Speaker 1: you know, if that is proven, then that would be 197 00:09:55,890 --> 00:09:59,929 Speaker 1: unconstitutional here because South Korea's constitution says that a president 198 00:09:59,929 --> 00:10:03,750 Speaker 1: can enforce martial law to maintain public safety in order 199 00:10:03,750 --> 00:10:06,900 Speaker 1: in time of war, conflict, or something similar. 200 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,739 Speaker 1: national emergency but cannot limit the activities of the national assembly. 201 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,069 Speaker 1: The general feeling here in South Korea is that, you know, 202 00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:19,020 Speaker 1: many understand the frustration and how helpless he must have been. 203 00:10:19,109 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: Maybe if what he says was true, but it doesn't 204 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,270 Speaker 1: give him the right to declare that martial law. So 205 00:10:24,270 --> 00:10:27,250 Speaker 1: I think we'll have to see what the Constitutional Court decides. 206 00:10:27,260 --> 00:10:30,270 Speaker 1: It has 180 days from the day that the National 207 00:10:30,270 --> 00:10:32,909 Speaker 1: Assembly impeached him, and that's December 15th. 208 00:10:33,090 --> 00:10:36,770 Speaker 1: And you know, so reports saying that it's possible a 209 00:10:36,770 --> 00:10:40,130 Speaker 1: decision could come out say sometime later this month or 210 00:10:40,130 --> 00:10:44,299 Speaker 1: early June, and if the Constitutional Court does decide to 211 00:10:44,299 --> 00:10:46,989 Speaker 1: impeach him, then South Korea will have to hold another 212 00:10:46,989 --> 00:10:50,409 Speaker 1: election within 60 days, but if not impeached, then President 213 00:10:50,409 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: Yun will be able to return to the presidential office. 214 00:10:53,530 --> 00:10:57,169 Speaker 2: So far, we have seen just how vocal President Yon's 215 00:10:57,169 --> 00:10:59,049 Speaker 2: supporters have been throughout this saga. 216 00:10:59,619 --> 00:11:02,780 Speaker 2: Has their momentum waned at all? You know, where do 217 00:11:02,780 --> 00:11:05,419 Speaker 2: people in South Korea stand on all this today? Do 218 00:11:05,419 --> 00:11:07,539 Speaker 2: they sort of want things to just be over and 219 00:11:07,539 --> 00:11:08,219 Speaker 2: done with? 220 00:11:08,580 --> 00:11:11,289 Speaker 1: I'm sure the majority of South Koreans want to sort 221 00:11:11,289 --> 00:11:13,210 Speaker 1: of like get this over with and go on with 222 00:11:13,210 --> 00:11:16,250 Speaker 1: their lives, especially now that the US has a new 223 00:11:16,250 --> 00:11:18,690 Speaker 1: president for South Korea to be able to do, you know, 224 00:11:18,849 --> 00:11:21,650 Speaker 1: and to live. But the supporters are still out there 225 00:11:21,650 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: showing their support. They are outside the prison where he's detained, 226 00:11:25,330 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: outside the Constitutional court whenever there's a hearing, and every Saturday, 227 00:11:29,530 --> 00:11:31,809 Speaker 1: you know, they're still out there in Kual where our 228 00:11:31,809 --> 00:11:35,049 Speaker 1: office is located. There were reports saying that about 3 229 00:11:35,049 --> 00:11:37,039 Speaker 1: million of his supporters were out there. 230 00:11:37,479 --> 00:11:39,799 Speaker 1: Now in the past it was very easy to see 231 00:11:39,799 --> 00:11:43,150 Speaker 1: his opponents, those against him, protesting and calling for him 232 00:11:43,150 --> 00:11:46,039 Speaker 1: to be removed and ousted, and they too are still 233 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:48,799 Speaker 1: out there, but it really is surprising how president union 234 00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:53,119 Speaker 1: supporters have really grown in numbers and how the approval 235 00:11:53,119 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: ratings for President Union and his ruling party have gone 236 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: up since that martial law was declared. 237 00:11:58,719 --> 00:12:01,780 Speaker 1: Because after that martial law was declared, President Union's ratings 238 00:12:01,780 --> 00:12:05,299 Speaker 1: were like 10%, 15%, but really the lowest for a 239 00:12:05,299 --> 00:12:08,739 Speaker 1: standing president, and then soon after he made that speech 240 00:12:08,739 --> 00:12:11,690 Speaker 1: and people were looking to why he declared a martial law, 241 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:13,539 Speaker 1: there were people out there and a lot of the 242 00:12:13,539 --> 00:12:16,260 Speaker 1: young people who in the past were not supporting President 243 00:12:16,260 --> 00:12:17,650 Speaker 1: Yun Yo and the 244 00:12:17,695 --> 00:12:20,565 Speaker 1: Number of young supporters, they haven't gone down and let 245 00:12:20,565 --> 00:12:23,125 Speaker 1: me share with you what one college student, Hong Kong 246 00:12:23,125 --> 00:12:25,604 Speaker 1: Yong told me when I went out to one of 247 00:12:25,604 --> 00:12:27,604 Speaker 1: the rallies and I asked her why she was out 248 00:12:27,604 --> 00:12:32,525 Speaker 1: during that cold supporting Yun. At first, I thought martial 249 00:12:32,525 --> 00:12:36,114 Speaker 1: law was absolutely wrong and wondered how such a thing 250 00:12:36,114 --> 00:12:36,765 Speaker 1: could happen. 251 00:12:37,049 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: But as I investigated why martial law was declared, I 252 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: realized that the Democratic Party had been engaging in legislative 253 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,159 Speaker 1: dictatorship and tyranny all this time. I thought that by 254 00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:52,598 Speaker 1: adding even one more person like me to this gathering 255 00:12:52,599 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: where the elderly are participating, it could be a way 256 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,289 Speaker 1: to protect this country. That's why I decided to come here. 257 00:12:59,799 --> 00:13:02,390 Speaker 1: And so I think that really reflects many of the 258 00:13:02,390 --> 00:13:06,429 Speaker 1: sentiments of his young supporters, people who weren't interested in 259 00:13:06,429 --> 00:13:09,299 Speaker 1: politics before, but now they're curious to know why, and 260 00:13:09,299 --> 00:13:11,820 Speaker 1: they're out there in the cold and they're supporting him. 261 00:13:11,989 --> 00:13:15,429 Speaker 1: But then also the majority of South Koreans still believe 262 00:13:15,429 --> 00:13:17,989 Speaker 1: that what he did was wrong. And so there are 263 00:13:17,989 --> 00:13:21,229 Speaker 1: still a lot of anti-U protesters out there too who 264 00:13:21,229 --> 00:13:23,830 Speaker 1: thinks that he needs to be removed and punished for 265 00:13:23,830 --> 00:13:26,859 Speaker 1: bringing chaos to this country by declaring that martial law. 266 00:13:26,945 --> 00:13:30,294 Speaker 1: And this is what one protester told me about his 267 00:13:30,294 --> 00:13:35,455 Speaker 1: impeachment trials. He was the president of a country, but 268 00:13:35,455 --> 00:13:39,375 Speaker 1: now by inciting an insurrection, the nation's prestige and standing 269 00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:44,205 Speaker 1: have significantly fallen, and its international credibility has been greatly diminished. 270 00:13:44,455 --> 00:13:47,364 Speaker 1: The exchange rate is rising, and due to these reasons, 271 00:13:47,375 --> 00:13:50,724 Speaker 1: the country's turmoil must be resolved as soon as possible. 272 00:13:50,934 --> 00:13:53,974 Speaker 1: It's clear that a crime of treason has been committed. 273 00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:57,409 Speaker 1: And so you can see how divided how very different 274 00:13:57,409 --> 00:14:00,329 Speaker 1: opinions are out there here in South Korea these days. 275 00:14:00,820 --> 00:14:04,380 Speaker 2: Reports say that from his jail cell, President Yun has 276 00:14:04,380 --> 00:14:07,500 Speaker 2: vowed to regain office. I'm trying to wrap my head 277 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:12,010 Speaker 2: around that idea. Is that just rhetoric? Is it symbolic defiance? 278 00:14:12,229 --> 00:14:15,690 Speaker 2: How can he possibly make a comeback from all of this? 279 00:14:16,131 --> 00:14:18,293 Speaker 1: I really don't think he has a chance. I mean, 280 00:14:18,372 --> 00:14:20,492 Speaker 1: it might be the hope of his supporters, and I 281 00:14:20,492 --> 00:14:22,932 Speaker 1: think a lot of them are aware that he won't, 282 00:14:23,052 --> 00:14:25,413 Speaker 1: but I think, you know, they realized that he won't 283 00:14:25,413 --> 00:14:28,112 Speaker 1: be able to have this come back that they want. 284 00:14:28,413 --> 00:14:30,893 Speaker 1: But you know what they also know is that after 285 00:14:30,893 --> 00:14:33,663 Speaker 1: the impeachment trials are over and President is ousted from 286 00:14:33,663 --> 00:14:36,752 Speaker 1: the presidential office, Koreans will have to elect a new president. 287 00:14:36,856 --> 00:14:40,366 Speaker 1: And this time many of his supporters and his conservatives 288 00:14:40,366 --> 00:14:42,685 Speaker 1: say that they will fight to make sure that another 289 00:14:42,685 --> 00:14:46,085 Speaker 1: conservative leader will run the country and not just give 290 00:14:46,085 --> 00:14:48,966 Speaker 1: it to the opposition party as it did when back 291 00:14:48,966 --> 00:14:52,406 Speaker 1: in 2017 when the main opposition leader that Moon Jae-in 292 00:14:52,406 --> 00:14:55,976 Speaker 1: took over as president following the impeachment and the ouster 293 00:14:55,976 --> 00:14:57,806 Speaker 1: of former President Park Geun-hye. 294 00:14:58,099 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: And that's why I think the conservatives are out there 295 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,919 Speaker 1: making their voices heard, trying to come together and trying 296 00:15:03,919 --> 00:15:07,159 Speaker 1: to do something about the next presidential election, because many 297 00:15:07,159 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: of the conservatives here that I've spoken to say that 298 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: back in 2017 when former President Park was impeached, they 299 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,919 Speaker 1: felt hopeless and they just felt that they didn't have 300 00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:19,599 Speaker 1: a chance and there was no use trying to win 301 00:15:19,599 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: in the presidential election. 302 00:15:21,729 --> 00:15:24,109 Speaker 1: But many later felt that they just gave in too 303 00:15:24,109 --> 00:15:26,409 Speaker 1: easily and that they want to make sure that doesn't 304 00:15:26,409 --> 00:15:29,229 Speaker 1: happen again whether they succeed or not, we'll have to 305 00:15:29,229 --> 00:15:31,869 Speaker 1: wait and see, but that is the feeling whether President 306 00:15:31,869 --> 00:15:34,140 Speaker 1: Yun can have to come back. I don't think so, 307 00:15:34,229 --> 00:15:36,950 Speaker 1: but I think it's more of the conservatives wanted to 308 00:15:36,950 --> 00:15:41,469 Speaker 1: make sure that another opposition leader doesn't just become president 309 00:15:41,469 --> 00:15:44,260 Speaker 1: because their conservative leader has been impeached. 310 00:15:44,830 --> 00:15:48,190 Speaker 2: Since the 15th of January, President Yon has been at 311 00:15:48,190 --> 00:15:49,820 Speaker 2: the sole detention center. 312 00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:53,289 Speaker 2: That's a government-run jail in the south of the capital. 313 00:15:53,659 --> 00:15:55,940 Speaker 2: He could be there for up to 6 months as 314 00:15:55,940 --> 00:15:59,140 Speaker 2: all of his trials continue Yun Sook. I have to 315 00:15:59,140 --> 00:16:01,419 Speaker 2: ask because I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering 316 00:16:01,859 --> 00:16:04,299 Speaker 2: what are conditions there like for him. Does he get 317 00:16:04,299 --> 00:16:07,809 Speaker 2: any sort of special treatment given he is a president 318 00:16:07,809 --> 00:16:08,590 Speaker 2: of a country? 319 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:12,099 Speaker 1: Well, I haven't been able to go and see it 320 00:16:12,099 --> 00:16:15,020 Speaker 1: for myself. We haven't been able to get access to 321 00:16:15,020 --> 00:16:18,380 Speaker 1: that place, but yes, since January 15th, President Yun has 322 00:16:18,380 --> 00:16:21,700 Speaker 1: been at the Seoul detention center, and he could be 323 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:25,450 Speaker 1: there for as long as 6 months as this trial continues. 324 00:16:25,619 --> 00:16:28,099 Speaker 1: What we are hearing is that yes, he is getting 325 00:16:28,099 --> 00:16:31,059 Speaker 1: special treatment because he is still the sitting president of 326 00:16:31,059 --> 00:16:34,530 Speaker 1: South Korea and so he does get his own room 327 00:16:34,530 --> 00:16:35,070 Speaker 1: and in fact, 328 00:16:35,190 --> 00:16:37,700 Speaker 1: Some of the lawmakers from the ruling party recently went 329 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:40,169 Speaker 1: to see him and he was cited as telling them 330 00:16:40,169 --> 00:16:43,340 Speaker 1: that he was doing well and that this facility was 331 00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:47,489 Speaker 1: also a quote, a place where people live. And so 332 00:16:47,489 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: he seems to be adapting or trying to adapt and 333 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,059 Speaker 1: you know, according to reports, he's in the cell that's 334 00:16:53,059 --> 00:16:56,979 Speaker 1: about 10 square meters in size on his own, and 335 00:16:56,979 --> 00:17:00,219 Speaker 1: apparently there's a small desk, a small cabinet, he gets 336 00:17:00,219 --> 00:17:00,969 Speaker 1: a TV. 337 00:17:01,260 --> 00:17:03,460 Speaker 1: A bathroom with a sink and a toilet, but he 338 00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:06,500 Speaker 1: does have to share a toilet outside the shower outside, 339 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,819 Speaker 1: though he does have his own time to take his 340 00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:11,900 Speaker 1: own shower because they don't want any interaction with him 341 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:15,390 Speaker 1: and the other inmates inside the detention center. People saying, 342 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:18,050 Speaker 1: you know, reports also saying there are no beds, but then, 343 00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:20,140 Speaker 1: you know, Koreans are used to sleeping on the floors 344 00:17:20,140 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: on heated floors, and so that shouldn't be a big problem. 345 00:17:23,449 --> 00:17:26,339 Speaker 1: But I think he gets to eat his own meals, 346 00:17:26,420 --> 00:17:26,859 Speaker 1: have his own. 347 00:17:26,948 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: Time doing his exercises. So he is really on his 348 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,859 Speaker 1: own and it's really his contact with his lawyers. It's 349 00:17:33,859 --> 00:17:36,098 Speaker 1: really the only time that he has any contact with 350 00:17:36,098 --> 00:17:39,619 Speaker 1: people outside. We're not getting much details, but I don't 351 00:17:39,619 --> 00:17:42,619 Speaker 1: think it's the kind of luxurious life or cell that 352 00:17:42,619 --> 00:17:45,109 Speaker 1: he is used to living in the presidential residence. 353 00:17:45,458 --> 00:17:48,418 Speaker 2: North Korea, they've been watching this story too, and I 354 00:17:48,417 --> 00:17:52,338 Speaker 2: saw one report saying their view is that legal proceedings 355 00:17:52,338 --> 00:17:52,739 Speaker 2: are picking. 356 00:17:53,099 --> 00:17:57,300 Speaker 2: Because of the social upheaval President Yun has caused. What 357 00:17:57,300 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 2: have you seen in terms of Pyongyang's reaction? Are they 358 00:18:00,479 --> 00:18:03,530 Speaker 2: using this crisis for political gain at all? 359 00:18:03,859 --> 00:18:07,099 Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it has much to gain by 360 00:18:07,099 --> 00:18:09,300 Speaker 1: reporting on this, and so that's why I think North 361 00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,179 Speaker 1: Korea has been pretty quiet in general, following the martial 362 00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:15,339 Speaker 1: law declaration and many experts here are also saying that 363 00:18:15,339 --> 00:18:18,260 Speaker 1: it's probably because North Korea also don't want to take 364 00:18:18,260 --> 00:18:18,660 Speaker 1: any 365 00:18:18,709 --> 00:18:21,500 Speaker 1: Provocative actions in case it could work in favor of 366 00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:25,699 Speaker 1: President Juon, who talked of anti-state forces of North Korea 367 00:18:25,699 --> 00:18:28,339 Speaker 1: being one of the reasons behind why he declared the 368 00:18:28,339 --> 00:18:31,659 Speaker 1: martial law. And so Pyongyang has been quiet. It has 369 00:18:31,660 --> 00:18:34,969 Speaker 1: tested 3 missile tests so far, but many think that 370 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,660 Speaker 1: that is not a message to South Koreans, but more 371 00:18:37,660 --> 00:18:41,260 Speaker 1: of a message to the US, especially since the newly 372 00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:44,500 Speaker 1: elected US President Donald Trump is now in office than trying. 373 00:18:44,589 --> 00:18:47,670 Speaker 1: To threaten the Korean Peninsula and also, you know, remember 374 00:18:47,670 --> 00:18:50,589 Speaker 1: North Korea has sent troops to Russia to fight in 375 00:18:50,589 --> 00:18:53,859 Speaker 1: Ukraine war and many experts are saying that Pyongyang doesn't 376 00:18:53,859 --> 00:18:57,660 Speaker 1: really have the capacity or don't really want provocations on 377 00:18:57,660 --> 00:19:00,819 Speaker 1: the Korean Peninsula because it doesn't have that capacity to 378 00:19:00,819 --> 00:19:03,099 Speaker 1: be able to fight two wars one Ukraine and one 379 00:19:03,099 --> 00:19:05,739 Speaker 1: here on the Korean Peninsula. And so it's very likely 380 00:19:05,739 --> 00:19:08,218 Speaker 1: that it will remain quiet, especially when it comes to 381 00:19:08,219 --> 00:19:10,329 Speaker 1: domestic politics here in South Korea. 382 00:19:11,050 --> 00:19:14,030 Speaker 2: And before we go, you have been speaking to me 383 00:19:14,030 --> 00:19:16,839 Speaker 2: as a journalist Yun Sook, but maybe, could you take 384 00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: that hat off for a second as you answer my 385 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: final question here. How has this political upheaval made you 386 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,290 Speaker 2: feel about your country? 387 00:19:25,180 --> 00:19:27,630 Speaker 1: Well, you know, when this first broke out, I think 388 00:19:27,630 --> 00:19:29,228 Speaker 1: I was just so busy doing my job that I 389 00:19:29,229 --> 00:19:31,790 Speaker 1: didn't really try to sort of like think it through 390 00:19:31,790 --> 00:19:33,780 Speaker 1: or try to make sense of what was happening here 391 00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:36,390 Speaker 1: and you know, we were talking earlier about how I've 392 00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:40,188 Speaker 1: covered so many major events here in Korea and I 393 00:19:40,189 --> 00:19:43,069 Speaker 1: wasn't here during the martial law, you know, when that 394 00:19:43,069 --> 00:19:45,468 Speaker 1: was declared in the 1970s and I used to sort 395 00:19:45,469 --> 00:19:46,630 Speaker 1: of like envy a lot of my. 396 00:19:46,849 --> 00:19:49,250 Speaker 1: Senior colleagues say, boy, you know, I wish I was 397 00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:52,290 Speaker 1: around then. I missed all the action. But then, you know, 398 00:19:52,369 --> 00:19:54,688 Speaker 1: I did get to cover this martial law, though it 399 00:19:54,689 --> 00:19:57,810 Speaker 1: was nothing like what it was back in the 1970s, 400 00:19:57,969 --> 00:20:01,129 Speaker 1: something very dramatic, which I never thought it would happen 401 00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:04,010 Speaker 1: here in South Korea while I was a reporter, and 402 00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:06,060 Speaker 1: I'm happy to be able to be around doing that. 403 00:20:06,130 --> 00:20:08,329 Speaker 1: But personally, you know, as a South Korean. 404 00:20:08,619 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: I'm just really hoping that something good will come out 405 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: of all of this because we've seen two presidents impeached 406 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,188 Speaker 1: and so far since then, you know, in recent years 407 00:20:17,189 --> 00:20:20,319 Speaker 1: this kind of understanding among friends and even family members 408 00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: that we don't talk about politics because the nation has 409 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,239 Speaker 1: become so polarized in recent years and you know, having 410 00:20:27,239 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: different opinions about topics, it all really just boils down 411 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: to whether you're a supporter of the ruling camp. 412 00:20:33,755 --> 00:20:36,744 Speaker 1: The opposition camp and that really determines everything here in 413 00:20:36,744 --> 00:20:39,385 Speaker 1: Korea these days and so it's quite scary even for 414 00:20:39,385 --> 00:20:42,464 Speaker 1: me and you know, when we talk about how South 415 00:20:42,464 --> 00:20:46,625 Speaker 1: Korea has come a long way to achieve democracy, but 416 00:20:46,625 --> 00:20:49,224 Speaker 1: for many years people here haven't really been able to 417 00:20:49,224 --> 00:20:53,984 Speaker 1: say what they think or they feel about many issues, 418 00:20:54,045 --> 00:20:57,224 Speaker 1: many opinions, and many feel threatened too, worried that harm 419 00:20:57,224 --> 00:20:58,785 Speaker 1: will come to them if they do. 420 00:20:59,290 --> 00:21:01,709 Speaker 1: And so for myself, you know, I've been thinking this 421 00:21:01,709 --> 00:21:03,949 Speaker 1: through a bit and and and I think about these 422 00:21:03,949 --> 00:21:06,989 Speaker 1: days about what is democracy and what kind of a 423 00:21:06,989 --> 00:21:11,109 Speaker 1: democratic country, my country is South Korea heading for as 424 00:21:11,109 --> 00:21:14,589 Speaker 1: we undergo all of these different events, unprecedented events here 425 00:21:14,589 --> 00:21:16,869 Speaker 1: in South Korea. So in the end, I'm just hoping 426 00:21:16,869 --> 00:21:18,989 Speaker 1: that something really good will come out of this and 427 00:21:18,989 --> 00:21:21,150 Speaker 1: we'll be able to serve like move forward as a 428 00:21:21,150 --> 00:21:22,780 Speaker 1: country for myself too. 429 00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:26,310 Speaker 2: It is always so great talking to you. You always 430 00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:27,859 Speaker 2: report on South Korea in a way that 431 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 2: Makes me really care about what happens to the country 432 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,179 Speaker 2: and what happens to the people in it. Clearly, this 433 00:21:33,180 --> 00:21:35,849 Speaker 2: political crisis is not over yet. Thank you so much 434 00:21:35,849 --> 00:21:37,420 Speaker 2: for sharing your insights today Yun Sook. 435 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:40,540 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Teresa. It's always a pleasure talking to 436 00:21:40,540 --> 00:21:42,129 Speaker 1: you too. Thank you. 437 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,099 Speaker 2: A reminder you can find Yun Sook's reports on YouTube 438 00:21:45,099 --> 00:21:49,260 Speaker 2: and on CNA.Asia anytime. And there are also TV episodes 439 00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:53,500 Speaker 2: of CNA Correspondent every Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. Singapore, Hong 440 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:54,060 Speaker 2: Kong time. 441 00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:57,699 Speaker 2: I'm Teresa Tang. The team behind this week's episode is 442 00:21:57,699 --> 00:22:01,540 Speaker 2: Saya Win, Clara Ong, Christina Robert, and Craig Dale. A 443 00:22:01,540 --> 00:22:05,179 Speaker 2: new episode drops next Wednesday. Join us then. Bye for now.